What do the agencies know?
This has been bugging me.
- We had the rumor Tuesday about the move, but we didn’t believe it.
- Thursday we had confirmation from one agency that the CCAA is moving.
- Thursday afternoon we had one more agency confirm it.
- And then Friday we had a whole slew of them confirm it.
Which leads me to ask when they knew about it? Did they know about it and choose to not tell their clients? Or did they not know about it and have to scramble to find out so they could post it and make their phone stop ringing with clients calling to ask about it?
I have to think that a few of them knew about it and didn’t choose to share the information. Why is this? Because at least a few agencies posted the information mid-day, which is the middle of the night in China. It seems to me that if they were posting the information as soon as they found out then it would have been posted first thing in the morning (when they got to the office and saw an email), or late in the evening (morning in China).
And I’m told that there are a few agencies that have still not posted anything about it. I’m told that two agencies have been asked and have refused to respond. One refused because they won’t talk about rumors, another has just not responded to emails about it.
Which begs the question… how much do they know about the wait? Some people email me and are convinced that the agency person they spoke with knows something but can’t say it. Some people email me and are convinced their agency is clueless.
What do you think? Do you think your agency is sharing what little bit of information they know, or do you think they know things that they aren’t sharing?
July 15th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
I do realize that things can change with IA, but where is “any” predictability? I feel like I’m flying by the seat of my pants with little visibility in the distance. I was warned the waiting period is the hardest, but I didn’t expect this. With three children at home, I would like to be able to plan a little- I guess not. LID 9/2
July 15th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
My agency is an ultra-conservative one. They say very little until there is no possible way their point can be construed as a rumor. It must be entirely documented fact. That said, I usually know things before they notify. (Thank you, RQ). Are they holding back? The answer would be ‘yes’ if there is ANY hint of speculation.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:28 pm
My 2 cents.
In general, I don’t think the agencies know very much at all. Some of them certainly seem to have contacts within the CCAA or with people who work closely with the CCAA in China.
Having had a July 05 LID until recently, I have now been following this drama for a full year. If I can summarize what I have learned (or think i have learned) it would be the following:
1. About one week before referrals are sent out, the cut-off date manages to leak out of the CCAA. Before this point know one really has any idea at all what is going to happen.
2. The actual number of referrals in any month is not information the CCAA shares.
3. The number of files logged in by the CCAA each month is not information the CCAA shares.
4. Wether the number of children available for IA is going to go up, down, or stay the same…next month or next year, is not information the CCAA shares (and for this one they may not even know themselves).
5. Trying to predict what is going to happen to the wait is an interesting exercise and I have done more than my share, but it simply can not be done with any accuracy by us or the agencies. This will only change if the CCAA themselves make some official statement. My opinion is that they will never do this in a piecemeal way (telling an agency here or there). If they do it, it will appear on the website.
6. Things like the move, holidays (Chinese New Year, etc…), available technology, staffing, etc… have no impact on referral wait timelines. In my opinion the wait is determined by solely by the supply vs demand equation. What (or who!) is controlling the supply side is anyone’s guess.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
I think our agencies know very little! They know only what the CCAA wants them to know, and who knows if what they are told is even accurate or not. I don’t blame the agencies for preparing families for longer waits. It beats having unrealistic expectations and having your heart broken month after month.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
I think my agency knows much more than they care to share.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
I have to seriously guess that they do know things, possibly not how long the wait will be but COME ON, they knew about the move. What my take is, that in some ways they don’t see what the big deal is to us, and probably they know there is nothing they can do about it anyway. So, yes they don’t want their phones ringing off the hook, and I think that when its not personal to you, they really don’t see it the way that we do! But, I don’t think they know about the wait because I honestly don’t think the CCAA can predict the wait at this point!
July 15th, 2006 at 11:50 pm
It is doubtful that agencies know even a fraction of what we want them to know about – it is doubtful that even most of the CCAA knows all we want them to know about. Agencies don’t need to comment on “information” that has no impact on the adoption process as far as adoptive families are concerned. Because we think that an office moving will impact the referral process doesn’t mean it will. Agencies don’t need to be spending their time speculating on what they think the CCAA will or won’t do in the future. They are supposed to be the professionals who, hopefully, through experience have learned that the CCAA DOES NOT reveal their methods, timelines, or intentions – no matter how much we want to know. The CCAA is a Chinese governmental agency – - – the Chinese government has never been one to give anyone information about anything. And, as far as some agencies predicting the wait will be 18 months or 24 months or 300 years? Guess what – it means nothing. Some will say it because they are adding in the dossier preperation time to prospective new families. Some are trying to get families to jump to other countries. Some have no clue other than what rumors they read. Please try to remember that adopting a child from China is a process (and one which China is in control of) and not a business. All we’ve done is apply to them to adopt one of their children. With that, we’ve agreed to play by their rules. No where does it say anything it had to happen within any set timeframe or with any amount of disclosure on their part. And, believe me, they hardly care about how we feel about waiting.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:53 pm
Our agency had never mentioned THE MOVE, then suddenly, we get this (excerpted, sans identifying info):
“….We have confirmation that the China Center for Adoption Affairs has begun their move to a new office in Beijing. This move has been well planned by the CCAA to ensure that their change in address does not impact the adoption process, i.e. registration, review, matching, etc. The CCAA will not be closing; they will simply be moving each department one by one….”
To me, it reads like a memo written for them by the CCAA. And the subject line of the email is “CCAA is on the move!” Which brings me to my point: I think at least some of the agencies know plenty (and in this case, I think our agency lost track of the fact that they had, at some point, chosen to keep info about the move from us), but they’re always having to be so worried about their own status with the CCAA that they’re willing to withhold info from their clients. I understand that they’re running a business and they don’t want to ruffle any feathers by speculating too much, or making any cause-and-effect statements that contradict the CCAA supply-and-demand party line, but I think they have much more of the big picture than they are willing to share. Not all of the big picture, of course. But certainly more than they’ve shared. We are resigned to a certain degree of helplessness, and I think they know they can feed us however little info they deem prudent to their self-interest without much fear of pushback from us. Or maybe I’m just too cynical….
July 15th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
The question about for WHOM will the longest wait be is still perplexing me. I, too, am logged in on 5.17.06 and I’m wondering if the 18 month wait means the poor schlubs ;) of us who are logged in only recently or those who are starting their paperwork & submitting just now? HOW DEPRESSING. I am also perplexed that folks are reporting that during SARS at least they had SOME info. WHAT UP??
I’m sorry, but patience is not a virtue I possess in any real quantity.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:37 am
realitycheck, I agree with everything you said.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:43 am
I’ll admit that being in the UK ANY information that overseas agencies put out is an improvement on our situation. Our government team stamps the dossiers, sends them to China; then stamps the referrals and sends them to our social worker. End of story. They’re simply not interested in knowing anything about the process.
That said, it seems strange to me that the agencies, who must be only too aware of the turmoil waiting families are going through – invalid paperwork, employer problems, family arrangements thrown out, not to mention the emotional stress – are very obviously giving people information based on what suits them, not necessarily anything near the truth. With such disparity – 12 months…18 months…longer… – they obviously have nothing official. So why not just say so? Why not say,”We are really sorry, we know what you’re going through and we wish we could help. But we do not know.”
Maybe some agencies ARE doing this. I think they all should.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:47 am
crickety
Our first adoption was during the SARS period. And I can say there were lots of rumors before the Chinese government temporarily shut the program BUT no solid information. Our referral was due out and then we heard of one rumor delay after the other (and I don’t think any agency was giving solid information). Then came the official announcement after I think 3 weeks that the program was closed until SARS was under control. Then nothing – it took nearly 6 weeks for WHO to issue guidelines on what might constitute under control. It was like living in an information vacuum with no end in sight (no one knew when or if the situation would come under control). I spent my time doing projections based on new cases and discharge rates and trying to project when the ’situation’ might be under control (and as it turned out I came pretty close). Then on the day that WHO lifted the travel advisory on China, the program reopened (official announcement) and the referrals came through.
All waits are difficult – but I think this time there is more information going around and it is tending to be reasonably accurate.
fu_fairy
July 16th, 2006 at 8:35 am
I am sure agencies know more than they tell us and, in any case, they SHOULD know more. I mean, it should be part of they job to keep us informed of what’s going on.We shouldn’t have to go around fishing for info when we already pay a great deal of money to our agencies. I don’t know about the USA, but here in Europe they charge a pretty good amount of money and, to be honest, I don’t think a few translations and shipping a few documents to China costs that much. Agencies are making a lot of money from IA and they take very little responsability in the whole process. The saddest part about it is that they behave like this because we allow them to do it.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:08 am
I agree Maria. When we signed our agency paperwork our advocate stated they were committed to giving us all the information available to keep us informed. That went down the toilet several months ago with an email from the stating they would no longer give out any information whatsoever. I wish we had gone with one of the bigger China only agencies (actually any agencies that actually COMMUNICATES!!) that at least keeps in contact with their clients about the current state of things even if it is only just to listen to us vent.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:14 am
I agree with J and Maria. Information, at least in my part of Europe, could be a lot more honest and straight-forward. Contrary to a lot of people here, my experience is that the agency really marketed China as a solid, quick and dependable country in relations to adoption. We had other countries in mind but were advised to turn to China because of our “older” ages and because China was very fast and predictable. So really we were never told – or warned – of unpredictability but quite the opposite.
Well we all know what has happened after that, but what nags at my family is the lack of communication with the agency. All of a sudden we read on their webpage that our wait will be extended with two months and then with the same sudden “blow” six months, and then… It has been near impossible to get in contact with them in person, to find out what is actually going on. And I just don’t buy the argument that they only found out about the change the same day they put it out on their web-page. I’m really not sure what is causing my family most grief – the lack of control over what is happening in China or the neglect shown by the agency. What I do know for sure is that this wait could have been a lot easier to handled, had we had an honest and solid contact with the agency.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:25 am
i think my agency knows more … they don’t say anything about referral times.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:59 am
We have to keep in mind that all of our agencies are in this to MAKE MONEY. The China-only agencies (I’m with a small multi-country agency) have MUCH more to lose if rumors start affecting the numbers of potential applicants. I would wonder if there is a difference in what the China-only agencies are saying versus the multi-country agencies?
Either way, you would have to ask who WOULD choose a country with an 18 – 24 – god only knows waiting period when there are several other countries that are still in the 6-12 month range!
Whatever any of our agencies are telling us or potential new applicants, I’m 100% certain that they have THEIR bottom line at the forefront of their minds rather than ours. Sorry for the cynicism, but that’s just the way these things seem to work.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:59 am
I don’t think my agency knows all that much, but I think they have a good relationship with the CCAA. When I spoke once with my adoption coordinator and told her referrals were on the way and the cut off was X, she was surprised and asked me how I knew that. I said the Internet (this site, actually). She said “don’t believe everything you hear on the Internet. I haven’t heard anything.” Then, two days later, she called me to apologize because referrals were on their way and I was correct about the cut off. I don’t think some agencies care all that much about cut off dates or things like that–I think they are caring about recruiting more parents, complying with regulations, working on paperwork for chasing families, etc. Once you are logged in, I suspect the agency turns their attention to those still in process. Because they “have” you.
But that’s just my (very unfounded) opinion.
Sometimes I think that agencies also get their information from here. I can see an agency worker reading something on here and telling another agency worker, “The CCAA is closing for three weeks.” And then that other agency worker saying, “I will now send out an email to clients telling them that.” And round and round. I mean–we’ve heard the CCAA will start moving Tuesday, that it already moved, that it will take a week, that it will take three weeks, that it will take a month, that it won’t affect things at all, that it will mildly affect things, that it will affect things horribly, even TAs. And usually only one of these things is right. The trick is to figure out what rumor is right. It’s so frustrating.
My heart goes out to everyone who is logged in right now and has no idea when their referral will come. When we started we were told 6 months. It’s now been 13. It’s been the most frustrating thing ever.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:05 am
Our agency just posted their ‘update for families’, and it mentioned NOTHING. Nothing about the wait, the move, the questions, the shut down for a few days. NOTHING. If it weren’t for this site, I would think I was crusing along expecting a referral in 12 months from LID. I think they have a policy on not commenting on rumors at all. They will only tell you what they have heard from the mouth of the CCAA. Frustrating to say the least. And surely they have heard something fromt the mouth of the CCAA regarding something by now if other agencies have.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:50 am
I actually love my agency. They are non-for-profit, so I don’t feel that they are just looking to lure new clients in at all. Obviously new clients are important, as the future of the organization depends on it, but they are in constant contact with the clients that are waiting. I have e-mailed a concern at 9:00 pm, my phone rang 10 minutes later with the head of the China program calling to discuss my concern. I feel that they share what they know to be fact with their clients, as when they hear a new rumor they have their employees in Beijing ask the CCAA. They wait for an answer and then share it with the families.
Maybe the reason we all sometimes feel our agencies know more than they are saying is that they do know more, but it may be a speculation or a rumor that they don’t feel comfortable commenting on as it may not be true??
July 16th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
We get NO information from our small agency China only. They have contacted us once in the 8 month wait since DTC. They will answer very little when we contact them. The last communication was a 12 month wait and they told us this in an email in June after several of us called to ask questions. I feel like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed sh**. Sorry, but having a bad day about the wait…just wish they would tell us the truth and let us plan our lives instead of the “Well, we may be China” so we have turned many things down.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
My agency most assuredly knows things and does not share. Ever. Did I say never? Mum’s the word. We’ve heard nothing about a CCAA move. And if other agency’s know, then all the big agencies at least know.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Amen, Maria. The agenices charge crazy amounts for what (IMO) amounts to very little work. It makes me crazy.
My agency (small, multi-country) doesn’t know squat. The director of the China program sends weekly updates, but they are of a personal nature (what she is doing over the weekend, etc.). Lately it has seemed like the updates mirror what I read first on-line, so I am guessing she checks out sites like this for information.
That is my biggest concern about listening to the rumors-I think things get spun up because one person reports it, and other people latch on and spread it. On some of the other boards I read, people genuinely seem to think that the wait is going to speed up, but these ideas are based on the flimsiest of evidence (”my agency says not to listen to the rumor mill, China really wants things to speed up”). What cracks me up about those sites is that the people there seem to think only bad news constitutes rumors-they don’t mind when people post positive rumors, but God forbid you suggest the wait is interminable!!! There are people with LIDs close to mine (12/07/05) who really believe they will be home with their babies by Christmas 06, whose agencies don’t seem to clue them in that this hope is very unreasonable, and they spread that information around.
Uggh. The worst part about the wait is the not knowing. If the CCAA came out and told me I’d need to wait 18months more, I would genuinely be okay with that because I could make a decision based on that information. Of course I signed on with the understanding that nothing is certain and no timeframes were guaranteed, but I do believe that people deserve information about the wait. To suggest that we signed on for a wild ride is simply untrue. Everyone has different reasons for choosing China, but I doubt anyone chose it because they like the excitement of wondering how long it will be from LID to referral. There is nothing wrong with asking for better services for the money we pay.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
You know, it really feels like we are helpless puppets that are part of some bizarre puppetmaster’s scheme that we know nothing about. I think the worst part is feeling like I have absolutely no control over any of this – and I don’t! We are at the mercy of our agencies, the INS and another country’s government.
I’ve honestly not ever felt so helpless in all of my life. That at least helps me to figure out why this is so upsetting. The ambiguity of it all – never knowing what will happen and IF it will happen at all.
And Deborah, you are right – we pay very good money to have to go through all this. It makes you wonder if anyone thinks of the PARENTS at all! Does anyone even consider what this does to our lives? Not being able to plan anything or make big decisions (job changes, etc) due to not wanting to upset the process? I know that adoption is all about the children, but does that also mean that the parents-to-be should be given so little respect that we cannot even be fed a crumb of truth from anyone?
It sure feels good to get this out and to vent. In fact, I guess that’s the only amount of control I do have over the process is being able to talk about it.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Hey Everyone! I’m not sure how big our agency is — they do more than just China but only send one batch per month. We were DTC July 13, 2005 and LID July 25, 2005. Our Agency never shares information unless they are for certain that it is TRUE! I was shocked out of my mind when they actually sent an email prior to last month’s referral saying that the cutoff would be 6/28 and our June group would all receive their referrals — which they did. Now, our group is next for our agency. I emailed them about the guangdong thing and they had heard nothing of it. I really don’t think they know anything — it so frustrates me. Our program director is from China so I would think that she should have a good relationship with the CCAA, as a matter of fact, I’m certain she does! I sent an email early this morning in hopes to hear back from them regarding two issues, the Guangdong thing and the move thing. We’ll see what she has to say. Generally she is very PC and doesn’t give any answers…very vague. Don’t get me wrong, I love our agency, I just wish they had/shared more info.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
two things:
#1, has anyone thought to ask “ask jane in china?” i don’t want to because she is connected to my agency.
#2 my agency has started asking us to “take classes” because that is going to be a new requirement. has anyone else heard that?
wBw
July 16th, 2006 at 6:23 pm
WBW,
What kind of classes will be a new requirement?
July 16th, 2006 at 6:43 pm
I agree that there is an enormous lack of consideration for the adoptive parents who are waiting for a child. I saw this too when we tried to do a domestic adoption in the US. I whole heartedly agree that the process is for the children first and our needs come after that but there are times when our needs are not considered at all and God forbid that you bring up your needs as an adoptive parent. I feel like we are made to feel bad for having needs like a timeframe to plan personally or professionally or that we have feelings or needs too. It used to be that most adoptions in the US were closed and the birthparents lost out on so much but the tide has gone so far the other way that we are left to what this site is about, searching for rumors because no one respects us enough to share information with us, even the agencies that we pay thousands of hard earned and saved money to work for us. If they do not have the information they should be advocating more to find out, because some do know. We so want to be parents that we have to tolerate the system that is set up in order to have our children. How many times have we written that we do not want to upset CCAA or the agencies? Why? Well, because they hold our hopes and dreams in their hands and we are so fearful that if we upset them that they will not like us and therefore not give us a child. It is an incredible imbalance of power. No matter what the reasons are for the process or timeframe, respect us enough to tell us the truth so that we are able to make informed choices with our lives and families. The majority of the reasons we have talked about for the slowdown are reasonable so why not respect us as reasonable, intelligent adults who are able to handle the truth? I can handle the truth, so why can’t they?
July 16th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
If you want a great understanding of China and the truth, just think about Tiananmen Square and what the people of China actually know about that.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
WBW – the classes is a Hague thing. If you agency is getting accredited so that it can work with Hague countries (such as China) then prospective adoptive parents will be required to complete some classes. Classes are usually a mix of parenting, adoption preparation, and cultural classes.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
I haven’t heard anything from our agency ever about our wait. They haven’t even mentioned the move that is now confirmed. Do they know anything? I really don’t think so. I think they can’t say anything because they simply just don’t know. I wish I knew what was going on. We are just driving ourselves crazy with the wait. I was just getting my head around getting our referral in Oct, but since last week with the new guesses it may not be until April 07. That is just going to be too much for most of us to handle. I really want to see some sort of REAL effort being made to move forward through the piles of dossiers that are waiting over there.
I’m an office administrator, I could volunteer sometime to push some paperwork through!
July 16th, 2006 at 11:49 pm
hi angel:
they told us classes about adopting and parenting, and 10 hours worth. books may count, but i’m not sure…
wBw
July 16th, 2006 at 11:53 pm
PS. i just love the ad i always see on this page that says:
asian babies adoption
no waiting time for babies
6 months and up
they only forgot to add one thing:
“lol”
:)
“the sarcastic one” aka wBw
July 17th, 2006 at 2:51 am
I have to agree with those that have said their agencies know more than they are saying. Our LID is 8-31-05 and we were told to expect our referral in Feb 06. We chose our China only agency because they kept saying how they have staff in China and know what is going on all the time and they keep the families informed. What a bunch of crap! I think they knew long before our LID that we would be waiting much longer than Feb and I still think they are holding back info. They don’t want new families to know about the wait or they might lose those families to other agencies that go to more countries than just China. We also paid a lot of money for their services (and I use the term service very lightly) for which I certainly feel we have overpaid for what little service we received. There really hasn’t been any SERVICE from them except to tell us what documents we needed and sent them to China for us. What kind of service are they really getting paid for?
As for thinking of the children first, I am all for that. I want them to think about my daughter first. I certainly am. I don’t want her lying in a crib in an orphanage for one day longer than necessary, but almost feel like she is being held hostage to play some politcal power game. We are all pawns in this big adoption game. Our agencies hold the cards first when we give them half the cash down when we sign up. The SW hold the cards as we put on our best faces and hope we present ourselves as good parents to be. The US Govt then takes their turns with the documents, departmental regulations, and expiration dates that make no sense. Back to the agency that collects their final payment as they send off the documents to China. The documents we collected without their help I might add. They have all their money now, so why should they be concerned about service? Then CCAA straps us down and takes their turn while they scrutinize our documents and our lives while our daughters lie helpless in their cribs. I think parents are thought of on a fairly common basis but only by those on power trips. As adoptive parents we are supposed to embrace the cultures where our children come from, but after I return from China, I am not sure how I will feel about the country in light of the way CCAA treats adoptive parents, which is sad because I have been learning a lot since we started this journey and unlike the US that has very little history, China is filled with a vibrant and rich history. I have never adopted before and will never do it again. My heart has been broken in a million pieces over the last 2 years over this adoption and I just want by daughter and have a good life with her. I would never recommend adopting from China to anyone, nor would I recommend the agency we are with. I have little respect for those that care so little about others.
It has been another long weekend added to so many before on this waiting train. I have gone from excited to sad and now I am just plain angry! Thanks for letting me vent. I hope and pray that what I have read from others will happen in that I will forget all of this heartache and anger when I hold my daughter the first time.
July 17th, 2006 at 3:28 am
Hi Guys. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we got the official word today about wait times. In Australia, all adoptions go through governmental departments, who are VERY reticent to give out any info re: wait times unless it comes straight from the CCAA. Following the CCAA visit last week, clients in Australia are now being officially advised that the wait time to allocation is to extend out to 18 months. This came directly from the relevant authorities at the CCAA. So sorry to have to tell you this, but I thought that you would want to know.
July 17th, 2006 at 5:10 am
Hi Tassigirl,
Is it for the “new LID” ?
July 17th, 2006 at 5:23 am
Not sure iseirinne. Our department just told us that the wait will gradually increase up to the 18 month mark – it won’t get to 18 months immediately, but eventually it will.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:04 am
MomforTori — i agree with everything you said. hang in there.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:39 am
And at 18 months, will it then increase to 24? Given the history over the past year, and the lack of trust that some of us seem to feel in our agencies, INS, and CCAA, don’t we all need to wonder how accurate this info will turn out for those currently waiting?
July 17th, 2006 at 6:33 pm
This is my first time posting. My LID is 2/28/06. I am with a large, China-only agency, though I don’t know if it is THE large, China-only agency talked about on this site. Though I was initially told 6-8 months, I learned through the newsletter the agency sends to us that the wait had gotten longer, right around the time our paperwork went in. They said it looked like 9-12 months, and for two months now have been saying it could be as long as 18.
I have to say I have been impressed with our agency’s willingness to be honest with me. They, like many others, say “This is how it is now” and “it’s hard to speculate.” But their newsletter includes an estimated guess that goes 6 months out. And every time I have called them, they have patiently and courteously answered all my questions and listened to my fears and frustration.
Even more impressive, when I started asking about trying to adopt my second child first, from Vietnam, rather than waiting for my first child and then getting the second from China, they were understanding and even helpful in showing me how that could be possible. And this means they will lose me as a “repeat customer”! I do believe they are non-profit so maybe that’s why. Still it’s impressive.
I still care a lot about the China wait, even though it now looks like we will get our son from Vietnam before the end of the year. We are putting our China adoption on hold for six months so our two kids don’t come too close together. Since I will have the one, I won’t be so stressed about when the second comes (in fact, not too close together is good). But I did want to try to have both my kids before I’m 45 (I’m 42).
Sometimes it even seems like my agency has tried to tailor their answers to my situation. When I asked if it’s possible that it could be as long as 24 months, they said the usual “It’s never been that long before,” “I would be surprised if that happened.” But when pressed, she said “possible” and when pressed further even said “likely.” That may or may not be true, but I think she was trying to say, for someone like me, who’s considering moving to Vietnam to try have 2 kids in the next three years, that it wouldn’t be bad to be prepared for the worst case scenario.
The good news: When I go on hold, some of you will move up!