Comments on: Do they have a plan? http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/ Join the Rumor Queen as she looks for the latest rumors and then analyzes them, trying to figure out what the CCAA will do next. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:27:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: RumorQueen http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6590 RumorQueen Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:30:48 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6590 Eh, sorry 'bout that. It's not an internet term, it's an everyday term and I didn't even think when I used it. If you don't already know exactly what it stands for, chances are you'd rather not. It basically means you're out of luck. Eh, sorry ’bout that. It’s not an internet term, it’s an everyday term and I didn’t even think when I used it.

If you don’t already know exactly what it stands for, chances are you’d rather not.

It basically means you’re out of luck.

]]> By: guessingmom http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6526 guessingmom Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:42:07 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6526 What does SOL mean? What does SOL mean?

]]> By: jenhall http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6489 jenhall Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:24:52 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6489 We're about 4 months into our wait. I've been watching the rumors for the last few months getting readily depressed. I, too, am frustrated that we used to see full month referrals. Now we see days worth. I think the lack of paper-ready children very much has to do with the push for more females. There is a whole campaign as we now know. I think it embarasses the government that they have a gender crisis yet people from around the world are adopting their daughters. I've spent many years in Asia. The Chinese are a proud people and very close-mouthed about their policies/plans in order to protect their reputation and their appearance to the public. I know this sounds pessimistic but I believe that, until their gender crisis is resolved (which will take decades), we will continue to see a lack of paper-ready children for IA. That, on top of the Hague Convention issues and the bureaucracy that is required by local orphanages to participate does not bode well for us waiting. We’re about 4 months into our wait. I’ve been watching the rumors for the last few months getting readily depressed. I, too, am frustrated that we used to see full month referrals. Now we see days worth. I think the lack of paper-ready children very much has to do with the push for more females. There is a whole campaign as we now know. I think it embarasses the government that they have a gender crisis yet people from around the world are adopting their daughters. I’ve spent many years in Asia. The Chinese are a proud people and very close-mouthed about their policies/plans in order to protect their reputation and their appearance to the public. I know this sounds pessimistic but I believe that, until their gender crisis is resolved (which will take decades), we will continue to see a lack of paper-ready children for IA. That, on top of the Hague Convention issues and the bureaucracy that is required by local orphanages to participate does not bode well for us waiting.

]]> By: RumorQueen http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6469 RumorQueen Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:31:22 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6469 Yes, we have all been told that babies older than two years are not available. There are lots of reasons given as to why this may be, but apparently for those asking for a child in 2 - 6 year old age group, they are basically being told they are SOL. If a few orphanages are going to hold onto babies until they are 18 months then this may help those families who are restricted by their own country's law as to the age they are allowed to adopt. By far, most orphanages get the paperwork out the door as soon as they legally can. Yes, we have all been told that babies older than two years are not available. There are lots of reasons given as to why this may be, but apparently for those asking for a child in 2 – 6 year old age group, they are basically being told they are SOL.

If a few orphanages are going to hold onto babies until they are 18 months then this may help those families who are restricted by their own country’s law as to the age they are allowed to adopt.

By far, most orphanages get the paperwork out the door as soon as they legally can.

]]> By: j http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6467 j Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:25:29 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6467 postfarm, this is very interesting. But I'm trying to dig something out of my memory. Weren't agencies in the Netherlands and maybe Australia (forgive me for being vague, it may have only been NL) fairly recently told that they can't request a child between the ages of two and six? Or was it three and six? I know there was another statement around the same time saying, in effect, that "As Young As Possible" should be understood to mean up to two years old. Am I confusing everyone else as much as I'm confusing myself?! postfarm, this is very interesting. But I’m trying to dig something out of my memory. Weren’t agencies in the Netherlands and maybe Australia (forgive me for being vague, it may have only been NL) fairly recently told that they can’t request a child between the ages of two and six? Or was it three and six?
I know there was another statement around the same time saying, in effect, that “As Young As Possible” should be understood to mean up to two years old.
Am I confusing everyone else as much as I’m confusing myself?!

]]> By: postfarm http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6461 postfarm Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:05:06 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6461 Paper Ready = finding ad placed/run for 60 days (not to locate birth parents as many believe, but to legally transfer custody of the child), baby's medical condition determined healthy, immunizations, medical exam, developmental behavior recorded, photos taken, all compiled into his/her dossier (all this per our 11-yo daughter who was adopted last year at age 10 and helped organize babies' files). I've posted this is in other comments sections here, but I'll say it again: CCAA is very concerned about the increasing numbers of families who travel to China and then decline their referred babies due to their unexpected conditions or medical needs. At least 3 orphanages have recently told visiting families they will not refer babies younger than 18 mos so that they can "make sure the children are healthy" for adoption. Isn't one possibility for the slowdown that they are holding onto children's dossiers longer (thus fewer "paper ready" children) for this purpose? Paper Ready = finding ad placed/run for 60 days (not to locate birth parents as many believe, but to legally transfer custody of the child), baby’s medical condition determined healthy, immunizations, medical exam, developmental behavior recorded, photos taken, all compiled into his/her dossier (all this per our 11-yo daughter who was adopted last year at age 10 and helped organize babies’ files).

I’ve posted this is in other comments sections here, but I’ll say it again: CCAA is very concerned about the increasing numbers of families who travel to China and then decline their referred babies due to their unexpected conditions or medical needs. At least 3 orphanages have recently told visiting families they will not refer babies younger than 18 mos so that they can “make sure the children are healthy” for adoption. Isn’t one possibility for the slowdown that they are holding onto children’s dossiers longer (thus fewer “paper ready” children) for this purpose?

]]> By: guessingmom http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6453 guessingmom Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:33:35 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6453 You know I think, in my guessing, that there a few reasons as to the slow down. I think that China is concerned about the imbalance in gender. But mostly I think China does not want to be critisized by the countries they want to be 'peers' with. And there is no denying that they are a super power as a country. But I think they are sensitive to the opinions of other 'western' countries. Did they impliment the one child policy because they were so concerned about the population explosion, or because other countries were concerned, or a mixture of both? To be honest I think that sometimes adoption makes people uncomfortable - especially to some (not all) people who are not adopting. So instead of focusing on the good -parents finding a child, a child finding parents, a country willing to allow adoption internationally in the best interests of the child (if no domestic adoption is forthcoming), they want to find the bad like insinuating a country is bad for having so many abandoned babies, instead of focusing on the positive fact that this country wants to allow some children to be adopted. Perhaps with the Olympics coming up people are a lot more aware of China, and some people in their ignorance view China's power with some fear - so they want to critisize it - like about the gender imbalance, and showing western families adopting, when really the number of children we are adopting is just a drop in the bucket. My thinking is why not allow as many children as possible to be adopted, of course prioritzing domestic adoptions first. But won't allowing as many children as possilbe to be adopted actually help the gender imbalance? Won't children who are adopted much more likely to survive and thrive, making more and better potential brides? We are a world, couldn't the Chinese young men find some of their brides at home and some abroad? Maybe I am thinking too much in Utopia mode - but I just wish it could be. Also I wish news reporters would realize that their ratings through negative comments can actually affect the lives of the daughters of China, if China makes some of it's decisions based partially on how things appear to the world. Shame on these reporters looking to wrongly critisize just to get more ratings/readership. Perhaps we as adoptive parents need to be proactive and say to the world "Do not fear a country that is increasing so fast" which would hopefully help China feel less of the need to impliment strict guidlines on number of children in families resulting in fewer abandonments, and also say "Do not critisize a country who wants the best for the daughters who are left in orphanages and not adopted domestically -praise China instead for wanting the best for these daughters, and allowing them to be adopted internationally" and "Do not fear a nation that has more boys than girls - there is a whole world of women - more women then man in fact" perhaps there would then be less pressure about daughters leaving the country then. If we could somehow start this mentality instead in a broad way, as an adoptive community, maybe we could make a more positive atmosphere for China to make decisons from, in a world wide way. I know I may not be focusing enough on the motives and real issues within China, but a girl can hope right? Wouldn't that be great if we could impact things somehow - come in the opposite spirit of fear - come in a spirit of love and acceptance? I know this would be hard - I am getting my feelings out. I can hope anyways. And the best way I can help is by sharing my thoughts. And if China ever reads this I just want to say I think I could say for the adoptive community as a whole - "we support you to adopt out your daughters, where they are not adopted domestically. We praise you for where you do this and we do not live in fear and critisism as others may speak out. We are behind you and praise you for allowing us to adopt your precious, smart, beautiful & wonderful chinese daughters. Everything for Children! We stand behind you in this and speak it out - please let us adopt more of these precious blessings. We respect you for allowing us this honor, and for your care for your children in this." As for our agencies, I think that yes some of them are not telling us what is likely regarding the wait, because of money. But I also think for some of them it is also about the children (though perhaps in a sneaky way) by continuing as if everything is normal so that parents keep attempting to adopt these children they (the agencies) also care about because they know we, the adoptive parents can and will raise the most stink about not being able to bring these children home who we are desperate to love. I think some of the agencies want China to feel this pressure, so that hopefully things will change (if slow down intentional) so that more children will be able to be adopted again. Although I definately think it is unfair of these agencies to use parents this way - I am just trying to show what also may be going on in their minds. Just getting my thoughts and wonderings and feelings out. I could be off. You know I think, in my guessing, that there a few reasons as to the slow down. I think that China is concerned about the imbalance in gender. But mostly I think China does not want to be critisized by the countries they want to be ‘peers’ with. And there is no denying that they are a super power as a country. But I think they are sensitive to the opinions of other ‘western’ countries. Did they impliment the one child policy because they were so concerned about the population explosion, or because other countries were concerned, or a mixture of both?
To be honest I think that sometimes adoption makes people uncomfortable – especially to some (not all) people who are not adopting. So instead of focusing on the good -parents finding a child, a child finding parents, a country willing to allow adoption internationally in the best interests of the child (if no domestic adoption is forthcoming), they want to find the bad like insinuating a country is bad for having so many abandoned babies, instead of focusing on the positive fact that this country wants to allow some children to be adopted. Perhaps with the Olympics coming up people are a lot more aware of China, and some people in their ignorance view China’s power with some fear – so they want to critisize it – like about the gender imbalance, and showing western families adopting, when really the number of children we are adopting is just a drop in the bucket.
My thinking is why not allow as many children as possible to be adopted, of course prioritzing domestic adoptions first. But won’t allowing as many children as possilbe to be adopted actually help the gender imbalance? Won’t children who are adopted much more likely to survive and thrive, making more and better potential brides? We are a world, couldn’t the Chinese young men find some of their brides at home and some abroad? Maybe I am thinking too much in Utopia mode – but I just wish it could be.
Also I wish news reporters would realize that their ratings through negative comments can actually affect the lives of the daughters of China, if China makes some of it’s decisions based partially on how things appear to the world. Shame on these reporters looking to wrongly critisize just to get more ratings/readership.
Perhaps we as adoptive parents need to be proactive and say to the world “Do not fear a country that is increasing so fast” which would hopefully help China feel less of the need to impliment strict guidlines on number of children in families resulting in fewer abandonments, and also say “Do not critisize a country who wants the best for the daughters who are left in orphanages and not adopted domestically -praise China instead for wanting the best for these daughters, and allowing them to be adopted internationally” and “Do not fear a nation that has more boys than girls – there is a whole world of women – more women then man in fact” perhaps there would then be less pressure about daughters leaving the country then.
If we could somehow start this mentality instead in a broad way, as an adoptive community, maybe we could make a more positive atmosphere for China to make decisons from, in a world wide way.
I know I may not be focusing enough on the motives and real issues within China, but a girl can hope right? Wouldn’t that be great if we could impact things somehow – come in the opposite spirit of fear – come in a spirit of love and acceptance? I know this would be hard – I am getting my feelings out. I can hope anyways. And the best way I can help is by sharing my thoughts.
And if China ever reads this I just want to say I think I could say for the adoptive community as a whole – “we support you to adopt out your daughters, where they are not adopted domestically. We praise you for where you do this and we do not live in fear and critisism as others may speak out. We are behind you and praise you for allowing us to adopt your precious, smart, beautiful & wonderful chinese daughters. Everything for Children! We stand behind you in this and speak it out – please let us adopt more of these precious blessings. We respect you for allowing us this honor, and for your care for your children in this.”
As for our agencies, I think that yes some of them are not telling us what is likely regarding the wait, because of money. But I also think for some of them it is also about the children (though perhaps in a sneaky way) by continuing as if everything is normal so that parents keep attempting to adopt these children they (the agencies) also care about because they know we, the adoptive parents can and will raise the most stink about not being able to bring these children home who we are desperate to love. I think some of the agencies want China to feel this pressure, so that hopefully things will change (if slow down intentional) so that more children will be able to be adopted again. Although I definately think it is unfair of these agencies to use parents this way – I am just trying to show what also may be going on in their minds. Just getting my thoughts and wonderings and feelings out. I could be off.

]]> By: RumorQueen http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6440 RumorQueen Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:53:08 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6440 For a child to be eligible for international adoption there has to be a clear papertrail - so the person who finds them must take them to the police station and have a police report made, the orphanage must place a finding ad in the paper, etc. The orphanage then must keep up with certain paperwork while they wait the allotted time and then finally they send the child's dossier to the CCAA. There are reports that women who report a "found child" must submit to a gyno exam to make sure she isn't the mom, and a man who reports one must bring his wife for an exam. I'm not sure how widespread that is, but it is apparently the rule in at least some provinces. The point here is that sometimes they don't have the "finder" available for a police report. We also have a report of one orphanage director who was complaining that the CCAA wasn't allowing him to send as many files as he'd been allowed in the past. This would tend to support the theory that the CCAA is intentionally slowing things down. But, why? To make things come to an almost standstill before the olympics? To try to convince the world that there are no more abandoned babies? Or, maybe something less sinister - maybe they had their hands full handling the Hunan scandal and could only handle paperwork for so many babies per month. If we knew the "why" then we might be able to guess whether they will speed up again or not. For a child to be eligible for international adoption there has to be a clear papertrail – so the person who finds them must take them to the police station and have a police report made, the orphanage must place a finding ad in the paper, etc. The orphanage then must keep up with certain paperwork while they wait the allotted time and then finally they send the child’s dossier to the CCAA.

There are reports that women who report a “found child” must submit to a gyno exam to make sure she isn’t the mom, and a man who reports one must bring his wife for an exam. I’m not sure how widespread that is, but it is apparently the rule in at least some provinces. The point here is that sometimes they don’t have the “finder” available for a police report.

We also have a report of one orphanage director who was complaining that the CCAA wasn’t allowing him to send as many files as he’d been allowed in the past. This would tend to support the theory that the CCAA is intentionally slowing things down.

But, why? To make things come to an almost standstill before the olympics? To try to convince the world that there are no more abandoned babies? Or, maybe something less sinister – maybe they had their hands full handling the Hunan scandal and could only handle paperwork for so many babies per month.

If we knew the “why” then we might be able to guess whether they will speed up again or not.

]]> By: spinky http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6438 spinky Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:42:03 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6438 I'm also somewhat confused about how they get the children paper ready. In the past it was explained that they basically forward the info for what they deemed were the 'most adoptable' babies to the CCAA and that every orphanage could only submit a small number of children for acceptance into the IA program. But in RQ's post a few days ago, the CCAA was making it seem that they wanted more orphanages in the IA program and more children's info to be submitted. I think it would be somewhat (not much) easier for me to accept if the number of orphans in China was decreasing but since that's obviously not the case it's frustrating thinking of all the children who might not find a home just because someone won't fill out some paperwork. I may be being unfair but I wish they would shed some light on the process so we truly knew where the bottleneck was and what they were doing to fix it. I'm hoping the paperwork floodgates open soon so we can all get our children sooner. I would think that they are also expecting more paper ready children just for the fact they are not implementing quotas. It really doesn't make sense to have people wait in line if they are expecting the wait to get exponentially bigger. I’m also somewhat confused about how they get the children paper ready. In the past it was explained that they basically forward the info for what they deemed were the ‘most adoptable’ babies to the CCAA and that every orphanage could only submit a small number of children for acceptance into the IA program. But in RQ’s post a few days ago, the CCAA was making it seem that they wanted more orphanages in the IA program and more children’s info to be submitted.

I think it would be somewhat (not much) easier for me to accept if the number of orphans in China was decreasing but since that’s obviously not the case it’s frustrating thinking of all the children who might not find a home just because someone won’t fill out some paperwork. I may be being unfair but I wish they would shed some light on the process so we truly knew where the bottleneck was and what they were doing to fix it. I’m hoping the paperwork floodgates open soon so we can all get our children sooner.

I would think that they are also expecting more paper ready children just for the fact they are not implementing quotas. It really doesn’t make sense to have people wait in line if they are expecting the wait to get exponentially bigger.

]]> By: NinasMom http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6437 NinasMom Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:30:54 +0000 http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/07/26/do-they-have-a-plan/#comment-6437 I went to a social event at my agency last weekend and NOBODY - I mean NOBODY had any clue about the increase in time. Unfortunately they are all newbies...prospective parents who are in the middle of their paperwork. I just couldn't believe it and felt so terribly for the 30 people who were so bright eyed...thinking that they'd get a child in 2007 with a fall of 2006 LID. It wasn't my place to tell them...I just felt so horrible. It makes me angry that these folks will feel the way so many of this blog do...frustrated, sad, desperate, hopeless, etc...etc... I know that the official wait is still 12-13 months but isn't it the responsibility of the agency to tell the parents that the wait will soon be MUCH longer. There is no way the matching can go at this rate and now stretch this process out indefinitely. On a brighter note, CONGRATS to all of the parents who are receiving referrals soon!! HURRAY!!!! YIPEEE!!! :) (LID - 3/06) I went to a social event at my agency last weekend and NOBODY – I mean NOBODY had any clue about the increase in time. Unfortunately they are all newbies…prospective parents who are in the middle of their paperwork. I just couldn’t believe it and felt so terribly for the 30 people who were so bright eyed…thinking that they’d get a child in 2007 with a fall of 2006 LID. It wasn’t my place to tell them…I just felt so horrible. It makes me angry that these folks will feel the way so many of this blog do…frustrated, sad, desperate, hopeless, etc…etc… I know that the official wait is still 12-13 months but isn’t it the responsibility of the agency to tell the parents that the wait will soon be MUCH longer. There is no way the matching can go at this rate and now stretch this process out indefinitely.

On a brighter note, CONGRATS to all of the parents who are receiving referrals soon!! HURRAY!!!! YIPEEE!!!

:) (LID – 3/06)

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