Last month’s silence
And the next thing we need to talk about is the silence around last month’s referrals. There are three theories that I’m aware of that are floating around.
- The “leaky faucet” was on vacation.
- They don’t want any one agency to have a head start on the new rules and regulations than another agency and they have issued an edict to all CCAA employees that they are allowed to give LID dates to agencies and absolutely nothing else.
- They have finally found out about me and this was their response.
I have actually talked to a number of people about number three. I am reminded that the only time the CCAA has ever responded to something posted on the internet was when it came out on APC that people were illegally tracking packages and finding out when something was picked up at the CCAA that was on the way to their agency. And the CCAA blew a gasket over that one. However, it also later came out that the CCAA was told this information by an agency rep. I still find it hard to believe that the CCAA is monitoring all of the blogs and forums that are out there. I have probably (maybe?) made it into the top 20 blogs/forums/lists that talk about adoption from China. But still, even for them to monitor the top 20 sites doesn’t seem to be realistic if they weren’t monitoring APC back when APC was pretty much the only place that stuff was talked about in any large volume. But, just as the CCAA found out about the package tracking through an agency rep, it is possible that an agency rep has told them about me as well. So, it’s possible, and I have not completely ruled it out. But, based on my logs of IP address that have hit my site, I have absolutely ruled out that the CCAA is directly reading my site.
Which takes us to the first two possibilities. At least two agencies feel that the reason is number two. The CCAA wants to give the appearance of being fair, and they want all agencies to find out about the new rules/regulations at the same time. They are apparently unhappy that as much has leaked out about it as has (and they know there are leaks because agencies are calling and saying “rumors on the internet say you are about to do X and Y and Z, is this true?”. So, they have issued an edict to all CCAA employees that they are allowed to give out LID dates and absolutely nothing else.
Personally, I hope it is number 1, as that means we may be able to get some information this month. If it is number 2 then we may not get much information about referrals until after the new rules and regulations are finally officially issued.
August 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
FWIW (and it ain’t much) here is what my agency sent out today :
paraphrased: We (the agency) have asked our staff in China about the rumors of proposed changes in China and their response was “they are NOT true.”
August 28th, 2006 at 3:47 pm
And this is pretty much what all agencies who have asked since about last Tuesday or Wednesday seem to have been told.
But, agencies who talked to the CCAA before that were hearing specifics. Different specifics, depending on who they talked to… but there were specifics. And now there are not.
August 28th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
Well, you know what I think about my agency - and it’s not good. I don’t trust what they tell us based on past information from them which has always been inaccurate. I feel pretty confident that changes are a comin’ and I don’t think I’m looking forward to them. Unless it’s a massive speed up of course!
August 28th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
Does anybody remember how many months of notice the CCAA gave before the instituted the quotas in 2001? Did they announce the new rules in Sept. or Oct. figuring they would go into effect Dec. 1? I’m just hoping there is some clear indication of what the CCAA intends to do before many more months pass, the uncertainty of the situation is making it very hard to know how to proceed.
August 28th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
RQ, Do you think people in China have the freedom of web access to find you?
Several months ago there was that whole hoopla about companies, I think Google was one, finally being allowed into China but the search capabilities were severely limited. I don’t know how though.
LID 5/10/06
August 28th, 2006 at 4:15 pm
RQ,
When you say in #3: “this was their response”, do you mean you (or we) did something wrong by trying to guess when we will get our referrals? I see nothing here that could make them angry. I mean, none of these blogs would exist if they were more open to give informations and to share their thougts on new regulations and everything else.
:)
August 28th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
waiting4Ash-
i read a few articles (as well as saw reports on TV) about the whole Google-gate thing with China. As I understand, there are many many many people empolyed as the “internet police” and they continuously monitor internet access. China doesn’t have all the different portals to access the internet as we do to begin with so they are somewhat (not totally 100% of course) able to govern what is allowed. And if they find out about a site that’s been hit they feel shouldn’t be accessed, they will then deny it. Google’s ‘compromise’ with China in being allowed to become a portal to the internet is that they had to alter several things and close off some functionalities that otherwise would be available. One example of the altering is that if we here google Tiannemen Square…we get info and pictures of the ‘massacre’ that happened several years ago. If someone in China googles it…they get a hits filled with nothing but good articles and pretty pictures and there is not one word of the ‘massacre’.
short story long…they’ve created one big ugly firewall for the Chinese people accessing the internet. obviously there are ways around this which I’ve also heard more and more people are discovering. personally I think it’s just a matter of time before this big firewall comes crumbling down.
August 28th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Looking at the 3 scenarios above, I think #2 makes the most sense. Based on the varying info. from agencies, it appears there have been numerous “leaky faucets” until recently. Assuming big changes really are coming, I guess it makes sense that the CCAA is trying to control the flow of information until they can make some official announcement. Just wish they’d make it already.
August 28th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
TG: Sounds a bit like the cyber version of the Berlin Wall. : )
August 28th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
hehe. yeah i guess, in the back of my mind, i kind of was somewhat comparing the two in a way. i hadn’t really thought of it like that really, but in a way…hmm
August 28th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
I think that the CCAA may have information from many internet sources, including this one, about how the adoption community is feeling right now. How could they not? I have said it before; you can only talk about someone publicly and loudly for so long before it gets back to them. If someone told you there were several chat rooms/blogs devoted to talking about you, wouldn’t you be curious? They know what is being said and they are not happy, imagine you read those things about you or your business. Again we need to have a place for support but remember this is public to the whole world to read.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
I don’t read everyday so maybe I missed some controversial threads; but mostly I just see people who desperately want to parent. We are usually supportive of each other, sometimes a little pissy toward each other, our agencies or the CCAA - but,basically just frustrated and HUMAN. whats the big deal.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
I agree with amygum. This place is great for support and with respect to the increasing wait times, I don’t think anyone could have predicted the drastic slowdown and frustration over the situation is completely understandable. But there is a part of me that wonders if the frustration in the adoption community is getting back to the CCAA and they therefore are feeling pressured to speed up the referral process and hence the rumored restrictions. I’ve pasted a warning from the U.S. State Department that is posted on their website discussing adoption from China.
PLEASE NOTE: Chinese authorities are extremely sensitive about the operation of foreign entities in China. Moreover, adoption is also a sensitive subject in China. It is therefore advisable for any person interested in adopting a child from China to act with discretion and decorum. High-profile attention to adoption in China could curtail or eliminate altogether adoption of Chinese children by persons from countries, including the United States, that have caused adoption to become the subject of public attention.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
I have not seen anything that remotely resembles the CCAA being upset because of this site or any other. I have heard that the CCAA gets upset when an agency dares to ask about time frames, and thus most of them will not even go there with them anymore.
And, that statement at the State Dept site has been there for a long time, at least a year, it is nothing new.
I will again state that I do not believe the CCAA is monitoring blogs or forums or yahoogroups. We hear about how short staffed they are, do you really think they have the staff for that?
Yes, the CCAA is aware that there are rumors because when an agency calls the CCAA and asks a question they usually tell the CCAA that they are asking because this is a rumor that they are trying to verify. It is my understanding that this is how the CCAA finds out about rumors on the internet. Not from monitoring the thousands of blogs and dozens of forums and hundreds of yahoo groups out there that discuss adoption from China.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
I think a Big Bureaucracy like CCAA Couldn’t-care-less of web sites like this. While they don’t Need any individual adoptive parent…they do Need IA. If they didn’t, you better believe China IA would not exist. I think it would be Good for CCAA to read the comments here!
August 28th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
My agency, which is not the same one listed above, also sent out a message today that their in country staff has said there is no truth to the proposed changes rumor. I’ve emailed them back to clarify if they were told this by the CCAA (not that it would actually mean anything) or if that was their opinion. Personally, I still do believe changes are coming.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
My comment wasn’t about the CCAA directly monitoring this blog or any other blog. My point was that they don’t want negative attention on their adoption process and the increasing wait times is not exactly a positive aspect of the program. The CCAA is one department in a large government. Other departments in the government may monitor news stories, etc. and report on how various programs, not just IA, are being reported/perceived. The fact that the CCAA is short staffed does not necessarily mean that someone in the Chinese government is not monitoring public opinion. Journalists also check out blogs for potential stories and could report on the frustration of adoptive parents. Also, I don’t think it matters when the comment was put up on the State Department website. It’s a comment about dealing with China and what was true a few years ago is still true now. A year ago there wasn’t a frustration about increased wait times. There is now. That doesn’t mean prospective parents don’t have a right to be frustrated. They certainly do. But my comment was directed to how it may be perceived in China.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Re: possibility #3. We got an email from our (small, clueless) agency today saying that they and other agencies have approached the Joint Council for International Children’s Services with their frustrations about the rumor mill. They have mentioned this website in particular in other emails to clients over frustrations with rumors that they get questions on. They also say that they and other agencies have talked to the CCAA about recent rumors and there is no verification of pending qualification changes (duh, like CCAA would tell them before the fact)…. Anyway, I wonder if either they or the JCICS, on these agencies behalf, contacted the CCAA about their concerns over rumors and the need to keep an even-playing field among agencies ,etc., and thus we now have the recent silence. So basically, because some agencies are clueless, now we all have to be clueless.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:58 pm
kdel, that’s funny (in a sort of sad, depressing way, of course). I can see it now:
Agency: Our clients have too much information and are pestering us with questions. We’d really prefer not to answer any actual client questions with real information. Its so much easier to copy and paste “We will tell you when we have official confirmation” into our emails. But, if this one agency keeps providing information to its clients and they keep telling other people, we’ll be expected to know things! Can you help?
CCAA: Why, yes. Yes, we can.
Agency: Referrals are here??? But our Beijing office didn’t say they were coming…oh, wait…oops.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
sabrecmc-
brilliant! lol
August 28th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
I find the whole question of whether we should be censoring ourselves an interesting one.
There are those out there who routinely suggest that the best approach to the wait is to just go about your life as you did before you were LID…enjoy the last months before you are thrown into parenthood for the first time (or again)…ignore the rumours on the internet…the child that is meant for you will be yours when the time is right. This was what our agency Director would recommend and it is not bad advice, but for most of us who have made RQ’s site so popular I suspect it is just not possible.
Why is that? Well there are those like me…and like RQ herself, from what I can sense, that are problem solving, project management types that need to collect as much info as possible to try to “make sense” of things. The idea of just sitting back and waiting for the referral call (in a few months or a year and a few months) is just not possible for us.
For reasons I sort of understand, the CCAA takes a collective view when they make their decisions…they don’t (maybe even can’t) consider the impact their decisions will have on individuals. They have a program to run within a certain framework and their focus is on the children, as it should be.
So what about the risks of being critical of the CCAA? Well I suppose there are risks, but these sorts of discussions are not new and I am not sure that it is even a bad thing for them to hear at least a bit about how waiting parents feel. As we all know, unless you are going through it, it is hard to understand what it is like from this end.
I guess the bottom line for me is that the good of sites like this in helping people deal with the wait far outweighs the small risk of a negative reaction that might exist.
I did wonder the other day about whether RQ would ever be willing to risk sharing a picture of her new daughter with us though as that would “out her” to the CCAA.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
I can’t speak to whether CCAA reads RQ, but I do believe that they monitor at least some of the China adoption-related websites. Last fall we got a message from our agency telling us that it was very important that we not reveal any information we received from them to the broader on-line adoption community. Apparently CCAA had learned that some information that could only have been known by our agency’s clients had been shared on-line (I have no idea what that information was) and they were pretty peeved about it, causing our agency to worry that their relationship with CCAA had been jeopardized. Although it’s possible CCAA learned about this some other way, it seems likely to me that they learned it by reading whatever site it was. I doubt they read individual people’s blogs, but I’d be surprised if they’re not reading APC and some of the other more prominent sites.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
waitingfor celia
I would offer that this site is now more prominent than APC with respect discussions relating to the current practices of the CCAA. Discussions like that have largely disappeared from APC as far as I can tell
August 28th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
I think it’s about time somebody told the CCAA about all the distress they are causing. I know it’s their program and they can do what they wish but they are also human and should be able to understand what we are feeling. All this could be solved in one fell swoop if they (CCAA) would make one statement and address the concerns. We all know there is a supposed shortage but I want to know how they are going to address it from the horses mouth. I.e. we expect it to take us xxx months to process xx month’s worth of lid’s based on the current number of paper ready babies. If they tell us to expect the current pace from here on out - then that’s good enough for me. I just want to know something! Anything! I would like to be able to plan a little for gosh sakes. If they are aware of how the “community” is feeling and chose not to address it they have to know then it is them fostering the environment. As far as their supposed love it or leave it type comment about patience - that doesn’t sound like “everything for children” to me. Maybe we need to suggest a new slogan such as “hurry up and wait.” Sorry for the scarcasm but this is really getting to me now.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
sabrecmc
I think you are right. I really do. Tho of course with the disclaimer that this is my reaction to your speculation. Not a rumor!
Kind of funny too.
And I am project management type. I need some kind of connection to where my baby may be and RQ here, you are my only link.
I don’t know if that’s good or healthy or whatever, but for now, it helps me, to know that if something is suspected to come out on the adoption process, I might, just might have a heads up and be prepared.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
*sarcasm - oops freudian slip
August 28th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
If this all wasn’t so secret, we could plan our lives and careers. And those of us that are getting older might know how much older we might be when we are finally parents. With a 1/23/06 LID, I am crossing my fingers to travel next summer. I know - it’s great out here in lala land. Later than that I am having trouble getting my mind around…
August 28th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
yes, amen and all that!
Without this site, I would still believe that we are getting our baby next summer. Reality is (and Iv’e just come to this acceptance) that we are probably going to wait over two years from now. I feel better just accepting that than painfully watching each months refferrals like a slow mo train wreck.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
FWIW–a very reliable documents courier told me a couple of years ago that on one of her visits to the Chinese consulate, the clerk had APC up on her computer screen.
Also another FWIW–friends of ours struck up a conversation with a pleasant young woman during their adoption trip. Turns out she was a Guangzhou police officer, and her job was to monitor emails leaving the White Swan.
August 28th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Just completed DTC about 2 weeks ago and still waiting for LID - from these emails it sounds like it could be an endless process. We adopted first son domestically because it was quick - law changes in IL this January made it time consuming and expensive to stay domestic so we turned to China for a fast, inexpensive process - guess we were wrong!!!!
Very depressing and our gap between the first and second child will be huge thanks to China! Here’s hope that those close to LID are granted their wishes fast - thinking of you all as there’s really nothing we can do at this point…
August 28th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
FYI - Our agency - a huge China only agency is silent about everything! I tried calling and emailing today and got no where! They are totally silent about the wait times, new regulations, etc..
August 28th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
Glassmaker - Well said!!
August 28th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
ckessler,
It sounds like we may have the same agency. I also sent an email today and heard nothing.
August 28th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Luna -
I even tried to find out how many they matched with the matches from Friday and no word - I also sent an email this past week to their newsletter editor asking that they provide stats on this agency so that those of us new to the process get a better handle on what lies ahead for all of us - NO response!
August 28th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
We do have to remember that this is read by everyone…the internet is wide open, and I know from my Sitemeter account that people in China have definitely read my blog.
The concept of saving face in China is important…and there can definitely be negative tone to a lot of what goes on here, in my opinion.
I don’t know about other’s agencies, but ours made it very clear that there are definitely ups and downs in the process…so it is horrible to wait…I’m just in the beginning of my wait…but I figure we can either wait our time (whatever it is), be patient, try to engage in other activities (learn Chinese, study Chinese history, etc), and one day get a referral…or we can wait our time (whatever it is), read rumors everyday, freak out about everything we read and obssess over it, and one day get a referral.
I choose the first option.
August 28th, 2006 at 11:37 pm
eh well i had to jump in…
windthrow said it best the other day…everyone has their own way of dealing with the wait. some people like to be here (not me of course…LOL) and/or do things related to the wait and process to occupy their mind …and some people like to just go about life as usual until they hear something. there’s nothing wrong with either one. or something in the middle.
oh and there are those with the best intentions of just riding out the wait…learning things, going places, etc…but then believe me…one day…they’ll be here on this site with all of us…every day and night…it is ..their… destiny (heavy, laboured breathing ala darth vader)
August 29th, 2006 at 12:13 am
tgredthread-
You crack me up!!
August 29th, 2006 at 4:39 am
Waitingforcelia said: “Apparently CCAA had learned that some information that could only have been known by our agency’s clients had been shared on-line (I have no idea what that information was) and they were pretty peeved about it, causing our agency to worry that their relationship with CCAA had been jeopardized.”
This just makes me think that the CCAA is playing favourites. No information or much information - please just make sure everyone has the same. It looks like that’s what’s happening now and for that, even if it means collectively we know less, I’m grateful. For those of us in countries where IA is very lowkey and we only have disinterested government offices to turn to, a hierachy of the informed is both frustrating and incredibly unfair.
August 29th, 2006 at 4:41 am
frankieandsuzie Says:
“I don’t read everyday so maybe I missed some controversial threads; but mostly I just see people who desperately want to parent.”
I believe this is the wrong apporach. Adopting is about meeting the child’s needs in the first place, not the parent’s. That we want to parent and through adoption have found a way to fix this is just a lucky bi-effect. Maybe the CCAA thinks we are too selfconcerned and is getting sick of us only wanting to satisfy our parenting needs with their children.
August 29th, 2006 at 5:29 am
Bliss, I’m totally with you on the whole ‘ it’s about the child, not about us’-thing. I’m a fertile woman who turned 30, 8 weeks ago. If I had thrown my birthcontroll-pills in the bin, I could have had 3 children since dh and I started our adoptionprocess. But we didn’t. Because we feel (start the violins please) that there are enough children in this world without parents. We’ld rather become parents to one of these children. Or, as my dh says, : “I have no urge to reproduce myself.” So in our case, it definately is all about the children (btw I know that this counts for almost all of you, being infertile or not). Adoption isn’t our last resort to have a family.
For the first 3 years of our adoptionprocess, the whole ‘doing it for the kids’-line worked to keep us sane. But now it no longer does. I really want my baby! There, I’ve said it. I’m no mother Theresa, no Ghandi, no Nelson Mandela. I’m a selfish human being trying to do a little good in this world. I really long for my child, who propably isn’t even is this world yet. And I don’t mind waiting for him/her. I really don’t. It’s the uncertainty that is killing my spirit. I’m scared for the unknown.
August 29th, 2006 at 7:04 am
I have to disagree with Bliss on this one. I think it is perfectly fine to be doing this because we desperately want to be parents.
Doing it only for the children isn’t far off from the whole “doing it to save a child” philosophy and that approach is very problematic for me.
This issue has been well discussed by others and I don’t have the time or energy to get into the subtleties of this argument, but maybe it isnt really that big an issue either. I mean, if we simply change the words to “desperately want to be a good parent” then the child will be looked after. I mean are there any of us that don’t want to be a good parent?
August 29th, 2006 at 7:43 am
DMC-can’t we choose both options? I’m reading Chinese history, cooking my way through Fuschia Dunlop’s wonderful Sichuan cookbook, and talking to my Chinese friends. I’m also having a blast reading rumors on this site. I do it for entertainment as much as anything else, although as we creep closer to my LID (9/9/05), I look for information too.
August 29th, 2006 at 8:09 am
let’s not re-hash the whole “reasons we’re doing this” hoopla please. yes, the DW and I really want to be parents obviously or we wouldn’t be doing this…or we’d be trying the infertility drug approach/invitro…whatever.
basically we all want to be a parent and are here in this process to adopt a child from China. period. doesn’t matter if you guys have 18 kids of your own already or if you guys haven’t any of your own.
and one other thing…the whole “being owed a child” discussion popped up the other day….again. my ‘buck-twenty’ is this: early on I kind of wondered about those people that said “just give me my baby” when it came to discussions about the process and the CCAA. Now, after the years trying to have children…peaking with having to go through this uncertain, back and forth wait, I really understand the meaning behind that statement. It’s not that anyone who says that feels they’re “owed” a baby…it’s that they’ve been through stuff that along with this wait, has them finally beaten down enough emotionally that they (myself included now) just finally say “enough, please…I just want to get my child and be a parent to her…i just want to get on with life.” And don’t tell me that some kind of thought like that hasn’t crossed anyone’s minds at one point. HA!
Let’s please please please leave the discussions about these two topics off these main threads. please. maybe some of you guys who just jumped on this wait-train don’t realise it, but most of us who’ve been on the ride for awhile now have seen the discussions come up once too many times. I’m sure RQ has a place (forum?) if it must be talked about.
thanks. now i’m off for some coffee or something….lol
August 29th, 2006 at 8:52 am
well said, tgredthread!
August 29th, 2006 at 8:59 am
ratgirl - I totally agree with you…I come to this site because it’s interesting to read…but it appears to be all speculation. Things that are discussed as real turn out to be reversed in the next entry…I just hate to see people getting all worked up when the truth is they still have to wait that long. If you can read this…take it with a grain of salt…then great! I just hate for folks to get all worked up when we really don’t know what’s going on, can’t really guess it, and have no control over it.
By the way, what Chinese history book are you reading? I want a good reccommendation for one…
August 29th, 2006 at 9:03 am
tgredthread - most of the conversations that get carried on in the comments could easily be transferred to the forum! It would save those of us who check back through comments for more information from having to scroll through 200 comments about tequila : )
August 29th, 2006 at 9:11 am
TG: couldn’t agree with you more. Everything you mention my DH and I have discussed everytime we notice this trend starting here again. Very well said.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:13 am
J-
point taken. I’m not saying we all can’t have serious discussions on the open threads when they pertain to those particular threads…I’m just saying those two topics seem to get people alittle carried away and I’ve seen discussions on both end up going down the same path…with the same things being said over and over. And it usually ends up with people bing overly critical and insulting. Not everyone, mind you, but enough to get all the rest of us fired up.
I mean this is RQ’s site and I’m not trying to dictate what does and doesn’t go on and get discussed…don’t get me wrong, I’m definitely not doing that. But it seems to me that these particular topics end up being like discussions about religion. Maybe that’s just me though.
oh, and one other thing…i really don’t care for tequila (anymore)…thanks to time in college back in the day. just the thought of it makes me go “uuugghhhh”. LOL
August 29th, 2006 at 9:16 am
lies1976- I understand your point of view and it is wonderful that you and your husband feel that way but as an infertile couple this is our only option. So for us there is no back up of being able to have a bio child. I am not upset with you but I think it is important to understand that I think it is a different view on the wait when you are 30 and fertile rather than those that are late 40’s or early 50’s that are infertile. It is not a “choice” not to have bio kids, it is adoption or nothing. So please understand that waiting for others may have some different dynamics to it. It is always about the child first for all of us it just may be more complicated for others given the age issue, the rumors about new rules and lack of other options for many of us. Your point is well taken but others have different vantage point from which to look at this too.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:23 am
at the handover of our child 3 yrs ago in China the orphanage director said to us ” the journey you have travelled to get to this point has been very long, but it does not compare to the journey this child has come” I remind myself of these words every time I feel frustrated or sorry for myself during this current wait. it is not about us.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:26 am
I did not want to start a fire. I just thought maybe the CCAA is getting sick of us and our waiting nerves. Maybe that is the reason they kept things so tight this time…
August 29th, 2006 at 9:27 am
shanahandavid: That was a beautiful thing the director said. Thanks for sharing!
August 29th, 2006 at 9:28 am
PS: And yes, I’m selfish too, because I’m waiting as least as frustrated as anyone else does. I just try to put things in perspective sometimes.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:36 am
Still holding out for the leaking faucet theory.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:41 am
I rather think the “leaking faucet” got a strong massage not to be leaking any more.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:50 am
I rarely post…most times b/c the folks who are the regulars are all talking about getting loaded to make it through the wait and have a much different perspective than myself on how to cope with the wait…wow…hope you guys don’t have to fit AA meetings in by the time your baby gets here….now I know I will be flamed for that one, so be it…I don’t like this wait anymore than anyone else, but it is what it is. Complaining doesn’t make anything change at all…it is never ever better to complain about things…they are what they are. Sharing our hopes and dreams and longings…the deep stuff, that is helpful. Sharing the pain of waiting, that is great, that is what friends do, but going on and on about something that does not change, that is fruitless and it is very very unhealthy. IMHO we are all here b/c for whatever reason we have chosen to enter into this process and none of us knew what we were in for when we started and believe me if you parent for very long at all you will realize you didn’t know what you were in for when you started that journey, marriage is much the same. Life is hard! That is the truth. That ain’t gonna change. All the fits we pitch does not do one single thing to change any of this. Most of us are still waiting. I read this sight b/c I want to know something just like the rest of you, but golly wolly, it looks like RQ is going to go insane if she keeps up at the rate she is. I’m just betting there ain’t gonna be any more rumors. Looking at rumors for rumors sake is entertaining….but it still is no guarentee…ask the late july folks about that. Your baby is going to need every single bit of your sanity when they get here and for the rest of their lives. They will never ever want to hear what you went through to get them here…that will never ever do them any good. Waiting is hard. That is the truth. That will never change, not in adoption or waiting on the outcome of a job interview you desperately need or a blood test that may dictate your future. Waiting is agonizingly hard. Also, I know I am not allowed to mention G on here, but I must just say this, He commands us to care for those who can’t care for themselves so when those of you are offended by those of us who feel “called” to this process, take it up with Him, it was His idea. Ok I’m all done.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:51 am
here’s a thought tgredthread; everytime this starts again, I take
August 29th, 2006 at 9:52 am
sorry, me cat jumped on the keyboard. Should be, I take a deep breath and walk away or my blood pressure rises again.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:53 am
Bliss:
LOL, I like that!
August 29th, 2006 at 9:54 am
thewayitis:
Thanks! I was thinking your were too deep for me to understand…or maybe your cat is.
August 29th, 2006 at 9:59 am
no just sitting here in a dark room because we just finished putting our hurricane shutters up and my cat of course had to join me at the computer.(thats why the spelling errors)
August 29th, 2006 at 10:04 am
lol thewayitis…funny how our pets are sometimes (we have two dogs). love the name by the way.
and yeah, i definitely take that route when the moment arises. it’s when that little voice says..”step awayyyy from the computer…” lol
August 29th, 2006 at 10:14 am
thewayitis, glad I’m not the only one with rogue pets. Carefully stepping awayyyyy from the computer now…..
August 29th, 2006 at 10:16 am
I think I need a drink. :)
August 29th, 2006 at 10:22 am
Um, just to say…I like tequila. Some of my best friends are tequila drinkers. I just get tired of wading through endless discussions about it (like this one, heh.), cake, whatever, sometimes but that’s because I’m a bad-tempered so-and-so who would quite like to see her baby’s face now please. No judgments here.
August 29th, 2006 at 10:25 am
People need different things to help them get through this wait. If we need a place where we can vent our frustrations and have someone understand what we mean, then I don’t see a single thing wrong with that. If the complaining isn’t something that you can tolerate, then maybe this isn’t the best place to go. If you just want the rumors, you could read the main page and skip the comments section. If you are going to come into the comments section, I think you should respect the rules of it and leave the religion out of it. Now I’m off to the bar….
August 29th, 2006 at 10:30 am
I’m not saying not to whine and complain, just don’t do it in a public forum. (btw there would be no way you guys would talk about getting loaded at 10am if your name was public….but really, to each his own.) The publically complaining americans may get exactly what they fear….
August 29th, 2006 at 10:31 am
sorry, publicly
August 29th, 2006 at 10:32 am
Wait a second, are you country bashing now?????
August 29th, 2006 at 10:32 am
waitingtoo,
While I can certainly understand your post, sometimes people just need to be able to vent without getting critized for doing it. Yelling at the top of your lungs can be very stress releaving and can leave you in a much better place to deal with this eer lasting wait. All of us have tough days and we need to internet scream out our fustrations. It makes us able to get on with things. It definitely lets me have more better days than bad ones when I can post on this site and know that there are so many out there than can understand my feelings.
I know from experience (my FIL and DH) that holding in all of your anger and stress is more unhealthy than yelling out when you need to blow off steam. FIL never “got angry” outwardly and it contributed to his very early death. DH is similar but a bit better and, thankfully has his own way of dealing with his stress. None of us are looking for this to be a piece of cake, but sometimes yelling over the internet or in the real world helps us to forget the worst of it for a little while and to enjoy the rest of our days easier.
August 29th, 2006 at 10:33 am
And I was being sarcastic about the bar, apparently you didn’t pick up on that.
August 29th, 2006 at 10:34 am
She knew she wasn’t supposed to and yet she did anyway.
As for the rest of the conversation, I’m uncomfortable with where some of it is headed.
August 29th, 2006 at 10:36 am
Sorry, RQ–I will let it go.
August 29th, 2006 at 10:38 am
well stated, auntiem. and for what it’s worth while i’m sure many of us enjoy a drink every now and again i also think many of us tease about having a drink. so please don’t make the assumption that all we talk about is getting loaded and thus need AA. i’d say that’s just a tad bit unfair and not at all representative of who we are as individuals or as a community of adoptive parents.
oh and shanahandavid, thanks for this comment (amazing how you know things but need to hear it again every so often):
the journey you have travelled to get to this point has been very long, but it does not compare to the journey this child has come
August 29th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Waitingtoo — It’s “site” not “sight”. (pet peeve) I won’t say anything else about your comments, but they have compelled me to come out of lurk and say this….
I monitor this site and rarely post, but I enjoy reading everyone’s comments. Some I agree with, some I don’t. We’re all of us coming at life and our adoptions from different points of views. Imagine we’re all sitting chairs in a circle. We’re all connected, yet view the room we’re in from different angles. To me, every angle is beautiful and valid.
I have just as much trouble as the next person making judgments about people I don’t really know, but I’m trying the best I can. Probably best if we all try the best we can, yes?
RQ has provided us with an immeasurable treasure with this blog. They may be “rumors,” but, boy, have a seen a lot of them turn out to be true in the end. If it wasn’t for this blog, I’d probably still have very unrealistic expectations about when to expect our referral and I wouldn’t be able to prepare myself for things that might (or might not) happen in the future. Better to be emotionally prepared in either case.
It’s also provided a good place for adoptive parents who are undergoing such huge amounts of stress to vent, commisserate and cope. Life IS hard. Places like this make it a little easier.
I’m hazarding a guess RQ didn’t know what she was getting into when she started this blog. :) Thank you so much, RQ for doing all you’re doing. It’s very much appreciated.
August 29th, 2006 at 10:46 am
*smacks my head*
August 29th, 2006 at 10:47 am
lies1976 Says:
I could have had 3 children since dh and I started our adoptionprocess. But we didn’t. Because we feel (start the violins please) that there are enough children in this world without parents. We’ld rather become parents to one of these children. Or, as my dh says, : “I have no urge to reproduce myself.†So in our case, it definately is all about the children (btw I know that this counts for almost all of you, being infertile or not). Adoption isn’t our last resort to have a family.
Hey, I think we might be in the same situation! We felt the same way! We have two biological sons and are waiting for our SN referral. Oh yeah, and I’m 30 too. This process is so much like pregnancy. Wonderful, overwhelming, scary…..I love it! We knew from the moment we decided to get married we would adopt, biological children or no biological children. It’ll happen. It will. As long as we all hang in there and continue to prepare our hearts for that special little one, he/she will come home to the home that has been theirs from the day they were born.
Hugs!
LID 3/10/06
August 29th, 2006 at 11:00 am
Hi. Someone mentioned favoritism so I thought it might be useful to mention guanxi. I think this term has come up in past posts so please forgive any repetition. I think guanxi is a concept that is hard to grasp (for me anyway) b/c it’s just not the way we operate in the US. But it is the way they do business in China. I’m no expert at all but what I understand is that transactions in China are based on personal relationships, which we might construe perhaps inaccurately as unfair favoritism. I’ve been poking around the web and haven’t really been able to find a great simple definition of guanxi to quote. Maybe someone else has one to share. But this page does a good job of discussing it (scroll down to Chapter 3 Networking and Guanxi), if you’re interested: http://www.quickmba.com/mgmt/intl/china/.
Trying to see things from China’s point of view, I imagine that some of the comments and questioning we adoptive parents do could be hurtful and harmful to our guanxi with the CCAA. From their way of thinking, we have a longstanding relationship with the CCAA and they have told us what the reasons for the long wait are. We are probably expected to trust that, based on our good relationship with them. Of course, we aren’t used to doing that here….We like to know everything all the time, and we often are given reasons NOT to trust our own businesses, etc…So, there’s a lot of misunderstanding going on on both sides maybe…Sorry for the rambling…just trying to bring another viewpoint to this.
August 29th, 2006 at 11:07 am
DMC - While not a history book, I finished watching (rented via Netflix) a 3 part documentary - China: A Century of Revolution. I thought it was well done. It educationally filled six hours of our wait.
August 29th, 2006 at 11:10 am
I wrote about guÄnxi back in April while still on the blogspot blog
http://isorumors.blogspot.com/2006/04/gunxi.html
Yes, some agencies have better guÄnxi than other agencies, it’s a fact of life. And, some agencies have it with the people who make decisions about parents who are skating the edge of the rules while some agencies have it with the people who can tell them about the next batch of referrals.
However, I am told that the CCAA has been very clear that they do not want to give any one agency a heads up on the new rules/regulations before another agency gets them. They have decided that this is not going to leak out and no one will know until the regulations are officially released so that everyone knows at the same time.
August 29th, 2006 at 11:17 am
vtmama-
‘China Rises’ is also very good. it ran on one of the Discovery channels earlier in the year. It’s also out on DVD (4 disc set). I just ended up purchasing it…I think for around $40.oo
I’ll have to check out the one you mentioned now. :)
August 29th, 2006 at 11:19 am
Thanks RQ–those are some good guanxi links on the blogspot page. I was bringing up the concept again not only to shed light on possible “favoritism” but also to provide a framework to think about how we act and how they might construe how we act, if indeed they are thinking about us at all. [How's that for a convoluted sentence? :) ]
August 29th, 2006 at 11:23 am
oh…it was brought to my attention that in regards to the ‘leaky faucet’ issue…supposedly Home Depot opened a store in Beijing earlier in the month.
JUST KIDDING! lol (at least I think so…Home Depot is like the Wal-Mart of home-improvement stores. it wouldn’t surprise me if they did someday…)
August 29th, 2006 at 11:27 am
TG: you are a real hoot!!!! Thanks for keeping us smiling!
August 29th, 2006 at 11:30 am
There’s also a pretty fascinating book I just started reading called “Explaining Guanxi: The Chinese Business Network” — the description on Amazon is:
Guanxi can be roughly translated as personal ties, but the simplicity of this definition belies the complex nuances invoked by the word and the profound influences it has on Chinese business life. Although it is a widely recognized concept in both business and academia, there is relatively little published which aims to provide a thorough explanation (rather than simply a description) of its economic and social origins and thereby its real meaning in business life today.
China will be the world’s leading economic force for many years and will soon be its largest economy. The demand for knowledge of how the Chinese operate from businessmen and academics working in the field is huge and will continue to grow. Guanxi is an enormous force underpinning the way in which the Chinese conduct themselves and do business. The more others understand guanxi, the greater advantage they will have in dealing with China.
August 29th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Re books, two that offer a westerner’s perspective on recent history in China: “River Town: Two Years on the Yangtze” and “Oracle Bones,” both by Peter Hessler. “Wild Grass: Three Stories of Change in Modern Chinese” also offers good info., albeit not as easy to read as the Hessler books (IMHO).
August 29th, 2006 at 11:35 am
lol thanks…just the way my brain works most of the time…lol
besides…definitely think laughing about things and dealing with it from left field is sometimes better than being p*ssed (and yes for those of you who know, being p*ssed can mean being schnockered (from tequila…sorry J, couldn’t resist…lol) as well.)
August 29th, 2006 at 11:40 am
Thanks for the guanxi info. Another thing that goes through my mind is how we are different with regards to what looks positive or negative. I have read comments saying that the long wait looks bad for the CCAA and they should want to fix that to make things look better. On the contrary, I think they would think that quickly moving children out of their country would be a negative. I think they would want to show those within their borders and those outside of it that they do not easily give up their children. This is just my own personal interpretation. We could argue the point all day. The one thing I have learned is that we cannot easily fit another culture’s belief system into ours, and we need to be careful about judging them for it. After all, they do the same to us. I think if we take the time to understand their way of thinking it may help us tolerate the wait a little more. Just my very humble opinion.
P.S. I don’t drink but I do consume a lot of chocolate. Is that ok?
:)
LID 2/9/06
August 29th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
Hi all- first time poster, long time lurker. In regards to this original post, I just received my monthly update from my agency. It’s always the same standard form letter with some of the dates changed etc., in other words, fairly useless. But this month they actually added… hold on to your seats…. an originally composed paragraph!!!!!! In relation to this current thread, they basically stated that they do not want any of their clients posting any information that the agency receives from the CCAA on the internet, ‘out of respect for their overseas partners’. It sure does seem to me that something must have come down to the agencies to all of a sudden.
And the plot thickens….
August 29th, 2006 at 12:05 pm
Thanks TG and TWS. TG - not on Netflix (yet). I’ll fill out a request application to Santa in triplicate for gift approval. After that, according to my math, only 9,437 hours left to fill :-). LID 4/19/06
August 29th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
So, even if there is the teeniest of chances that CCAA has gotten wind of this blog, wouldn’t it be prudent to take all of our discussions to the private forum? I know the likelihood is small, but agencies are reading it, and perhaps one of them is forwarding the interesting bits to them…just a thought. I wouldn’t want *anything* to jeopardize our adoptions from China, and last month’s behaviour was soooooo strange (wth the referrals being so secretive),
What do you all think?
Snick
dd Sunshine
LID Oct 31
August 29th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
I will say it one more time. My understanding of what has happened is that agencies called the CCAA and said “We’ve heard rumors in the internet that say you are about to eliminate singles and lower the maximum age limit and require college education (and and and), and we were wondering if this is true.”
And one of the higher ups at the CCAA decided that they needed to not let anything at all out until they know for sure what the new rules are going to be and he basically said to all of the CCAA employees that they are allowed to give out LID dates for those recently logged in and that no other information is to leave the building.
There are not 50 CCAA employees monitoring all of the internet sites, but there are plenty of agencies calling and saying “we heard the following rumor, is it true?”
August 29th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
My Agency just told us that the CCAA will no longer be letting any agency know when referrals are being released, how many referrals are being released, or anything else regarding referrals. They say this has to do with the CCAA’s displeasure of referral rumors.
So, in other words, every month will be like this past one where we are simply blindsided by referrals. YUCK!
August 29th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
My agency said the same thing as Kennyt’s did. It sounds like we might have the same agency.
August 29th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
They did not say it was due to their displeasure of referral rumors, they said it was due to rumors about policies and procedures (aka, the new rules discussions).
August 29th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
RQ, thanks for the clarification because I was having a hard time understanding why adoptive parents knowing that referrals were coming or even the referral cut-off date would be such a big problem.
August 29th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
RumorQueen Says:
August 29th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
They did not say it was due to their displeasure of referral rumors, they said it was due to rumors about policies and procedures (aka, the new rules discussions).
–> well, then I was almost right ;)
August 29th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
*****hick-up*****, sorry to much tequila. Remeber, It’s not 10:00 for everyone. RQ is available in all time zones.
August 29th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Momto 4hopefully:
You are a hoot!
As for referrals, I wouldn’t mind “getting blindsided” this time.
Only SOON and with HEAPS of referrals for all!
M
August 29th, 2006 at 7:50 pm
***100***-sorry, that’s been bugging me. I kept hearing “99 bottles of beer on the wall….”