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	<title>Comments on: From European Agency</title>
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	<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/</link>
	<description>Join the Rumor Queen as she looks for the latest rumors and then analyzes them, trying to figure out what the CCAA will do next.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: anonymouswait</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15671</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymouswait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 05:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15671</guid>
		<description>Chinasyndrome - THANK YOU so much for the link and information regarding guidestar. It was fascinating to read that in 2004, my agency director said (on the agency tax return) that the he/she spent less than 15 hours a week on the charity (my agency). No wonder no one never hears from my agency director! I recommend everyone look up their agency's tax returns. Look for Chinasyndrome's instructions above. Very, very interesting...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chinasyndrome - THANK YOU so much for the link and information regarding guidestar. It was fascinating to read that in 2004, my agency director said (on the agency tax return) that the he/she spent less than 15 hours a week on the charity (my agency). No wonder no one never hears from my agency director! I recommend everyone look up their agency&#8217;s tax returns. Look for Chinasyndrome&#8217;s instructions above. Very, very interesting&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: lojeslj</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15639</link>
		<dc:creator>lojeslj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15639</guid>
		<description>Ah, thanks for the clarification RQ.  We apparently have it good with our agency.  Our agency does accept families that have not completed their paperwork, so that they are in effect paperchasing for a specific child.  I think at least half go about it the way we did though.  We were NSN at LID, and then decided to add our name to the SN list.  Competing for a child (which family is most worthy) would be horrible in my opinion, financially and emotionally.

I do realize it is not the right option for many families out there, and being a mother myself I don't begrudge anyone whatever decision they come to.  I only wanted to share how we came to our decision.  If the CCAA miraculously said tomorrow our NSN referral was here, did we want it, I'd take it and not look back.  At this point we're just looking for whatever available avenues there are to finally get our child into our family.  And I must say 24 mos is downright depressing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, thanks for the clarification RQ.  We apparently have it good with our agency.  Our agency does accept families that have not completed their paperwork, so that they are in effect paperchasing for a specific child.  I think at least half go about it the way we did though.  We were NSN at LID, and then decided to add our name to the SN list.  Competing for a child (which family is most worthy) would be horrible in my opinion, financially and emotionally.</p>
<p>I do realize it is not the right option for many families out there, and being a mother myself I don&#8217;t begrudge anyone whatever decision they come to.  I only wanted to share how we came to our decision.  If the CCAA miraculously said tomorrow our NSN referral was here, did we want it, I&#8217;d take it and not look back.  At this point we&#8217;re just looking for whatever available avenues there are to finally get our child into our family.  And I must say 24 mos is downright depressing.</p>
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		<title>By: knlchina</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15635</link>
		<dc:creator>knlchina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15635</guid>
		<description>Okay, I am new to this whole thing, and that may be obvious after you read my question, but is there some rule against starting the process of adoption for child #2, while you are still waiting for referral #1.  I have 4 bios, and so we will not be able to adopt from China again, but for those that want their children closer together than 2 years...can two dossiers be in the system at the same time, especially knowing if the said rumors amount to anything of the wait being 24 months.  Just curious, don't slam me for my stupidity ;)

K LID 12/05</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I am new to this whole thing, and that may be obvious after you read my question, but is there some rule against starting the process of adoption for child #2, while you are still waiting for referral #1.  I have 4 bios, and so we will not be able to adopt from China again, but for those that want their children closer together than 2 years&#8230;can two dossiers be in the system at the same time, especially knowing if the said rumors amount to anything of the wait being 24 months.  Just curious, don&#8217;t slam me for my stupidity ;)</p>
<p>K LID 12/05</p>
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		<title>By: rumorslave</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15630</link>
		<dc:creator>rumorslave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15630</guid>
		<description>I just did a search and answered one question Olympics will run 8/8-8/24/08.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just did a search and answered one question Olympics will run 8/8-8/24/08.</p>
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		<title>By: rumorslave</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15628</link>
		<dc:creator>rumorslave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15628</guid>
		<description>CWS~ I agree with "Each month I think the referral numbers will somehow point to a clear direction as far as wait times go, and each month I end up thinking â€œmaybe next monthâ€¦â€

Truer words were never spoken. 

Questions, I know that everyone keeps saying that referral times speed and slow and I seem to remember that 19 months had been the longest wait ever. That was during SARS, right? Before adoptions shut down for SARS what had the wait been? How long was the shut down? I'm just trying to figure out, besides SARS, what was the longest wait and what caused it. 

Also, when are the Olympics scheduled for? I know its summer 08 for a couple weeks. I would imagine they might shut down a few weeks before and after for a variety of reasons. 
LID 2/13/06 and feeling blue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CWS~ I agree with &#8220;Each month I think the referral numbers will somehow point to a clear direction as far as wait times go, and each month I end up thinking â€œmaybe next monthâ€¦â€</p>
<p>Truer words were never spoken. </p>
<p>Questions, I know that everyone keeps saying that referral times speed and slow and I seem to remember that 19 months had been the longest wait ever. That was during SARS, right? Before adoptions shut down for SARS what had the wait been? How long was the shut down? I&#8217;m just trying to figure out, besides SARS, what was the longest wait and what caused it. </p>
<p>Also, when are the Olympics scheduled for? I know its summer 08 for a couple weeks. I would imagine they might shut down a few weeks before and after for a variety of reasons.<br />
LID 2/13/06 and feeling blue.</p>
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		<title>By: CWS</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15602</link>
		<dc:creator>CWS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15602</guid>
		<description>Seachange, the same thought occurred to me---that since the Ministry of Civil Affairs apparently shot down the new regs the CCAA proposed, the wait times will continue to spiral out of control.... unless they institute a quota again. Arghhh. Each month I think the referral numbers will somehow point to a clear direction as far as wait times go, and each month I end up thinking "maybe next month..."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seachange, the same thought occurred to me&#8212;that since the Ministry of Civil Affairs apparently shot down the new regs the CCAA proposed, the wait times will continue to spiral out of control&#8230;. unless they institute a quota again. Arghhh. Each month I think the referral numbers will somehow point to a clear direction as far as wait times go, and each month I end up thinking &#8220;maybe next month&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: RumorQueen</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15599</link>
		<dc:creator>RumorQueen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15599</guid>
		<description>Just a note lojeslj  - not all agency handle their SN lists as your agency does.

Some agencies post the list and it's first person with an interest gets first option to put a LOI in on the child.

Other agencies post the list and have people submit a request for the child and then they decide who would be the best parents (in their opinion) of the child. This requires parents to possibly spend hundreds of dollars in order to compete for the child, as they are expected to have a doctor's input when they submit their request.

For some families neither of these options is a good fit. For other families they realize that their agency prefers to approve people who do not even have a home study yet for their waiting children, which makes the waiting children have to wait many months longer for their families to be able to come get them. But it also means those already in process likely will not be chosen because the odds are that someone who is not yet a client of the agency will make a request and automatically beat them out.

I really wish the CCAA would come up with some kind of standardized way to handle the SN issue. Ideally they would have all of the children listed on their site and the agencies would be the ones providing passwords to the CCAA page of SN kids. This way all children would be available to all families no matter which agency they are with, and the CCAA would be overseeing it instead of the agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a note lojeslj  - not all agency handle their SN lists as your agency does.</p>
<p>Some agencies post the list and it&#8217;s first person with an interest gets first option to put a LOI in on the child.</p>
<p>Other agencies post the list and have people submit a request for the child and then they decide who would be the best parents (in their opinion) of the child. This requires parents to possibly spend hundreds of dollars in order to compete for the child, as they are expected to have a doctor&#8217;s input when they submit their request.</p>
<p>For some families neither of these options is a good fit. For other families they realize that their agency prefers to approve people who do not even have a home study yet for their waiting children, which makes the waiting children have to wait many months longer for their families to be able to come get them. But it also means those already in process likely will not be chosen because the odds are that someone who is not yet a client of the agency will make a request and automatically beat them out.</p>
<p>I really wish the CCAA would come up with some kind of standardized way to handle the SN issue. Ideally they would have all of the children listed on their site and the agencies would be the ones providing passwords to the CCAA page of SN kids. This way all children would be available to all families no matter which agency they are with, and the CCAA would be overseeing it instead of the agencies.</p>
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		<title>By: lojeslj</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15592</link>
		<dc:creator>lojeslj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15592</guid>
		<description>Howdy.  Long time lurker, finally spurred to post.  Love this site, BTW.  My agency gives out only rock solid fact, which we all know at this point is almost non-existent.  It's good to have access to the other side of the coin, to see what is coming down the pipe.  Thanks, RQ!

In response to the 24 month wait, I felt like this was in the cards for us too.  We are LID 3-28.  Doing the math with the current referrals, and I figured we were looking at a 24+ month wait.  

I'd like to plant the seed for some of you to consider going SN.  Maybe that is playing into what CCAA wants us to do, but hey, a child is a child.  Here was our reasoning for why we added our name to our agency's SN list.

1. You can choose what SN you will accept.  Unlike the dossier filtering thru the CCAA then getting a referral "This is your child - will you take her?", our agency gets a batch and the agency then pairs up families with children.  At least in our agency, there is no pressure to have to accept.  If you do not accept, it does not affect our standing at the CCAA or at our agency.  This was the clincher for me.  I was afraid of being given a child our family couldn't handle, and then being unable to turn it down without detrimental effects.

2.  Your dossier never leaves the NSN track until you commit to a SN child.  CCAA has no idea you are on a SN list, has no idea if you review and turn down a child's file.  If no child fits a profile that you feel your family can accept, your dossier still continues its process (albeit sluggishly now) thru the system.

3.  Some special needs are huge, some are remarkably minor.  Several of the last group of children our agency received included things like a small birthmark on a wrist, "pigeon toes", etc.  

4.  I realized I did not need to feel guilty about not wanting a large SN.  I am continously amazed at the willingness of some familes to accept children with significant needs.  I was afraid if I didn't accept a child, I would consign it to a life in the orphanage, etc.  That is not the case.  Over the last year, it seems that every SN child our agency received has found a family - including ones with large and sometimes ill-defined SN's.

5.  Age range.  We actually have 3 bio dd's, ages 7 (twins) and 4.  We asked for an 2-3 yo in our dossier.  Many SN children are a little older, but at least in our agency, it seems that half the SN's referrals have been for infants under a year.  

6. One of our twins would have been SN.  She was born with a second thumb on her right hand.  It was removed when she was 6 months old.  She has a small scar.  That is the extent of it.  If she had been an orphan in China, she would have been considered initially un-adoptable.  Unbelievable to me - she is a joy.

7.  At this point, SN will most likely be much faster.  This is not a reason in itself, but did tip the scales for us.

When we first started paperchasing, I talked about SN with my sister, who adopted from China 1 year ago.  (Her wait was a TOTAL of 12 months - paperchasing to referral. ERGH!)  Both of us agreed that SN was not for us - who get's pregnant and asks for a child with a SN?  So who would ask for an adopted child that way?  Most of this stemmed from fear and misunderstanding of the process (see #1).

Anyhow, I would encourage those of you who are open to this to consider looking as SN and finding out your options.  At the very least, it has given me hope that we will find our child sooner than the open-ended wait that is occuring on the NSN track.

Sorry this is so long.  I'll try to keep the rest of my posts a bit shorter. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howdy.  Long time lurker, finally spurred to post.  Love this site, BTW.  My agency gives out only rock solid fact, which we all know at this point is almost non-existent.  It&#8217;s good to have access to the other side of the coin, to see what is coming down the pipe.  Thanks, RQ!</p>
<p>In response to the 24 month wait, I felt like this was in the cards for us too.  We are LID 3-28.  Doing the math with the current referrals, and I figured we were looking at a 24+ month wait.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to plant the seed for some of you to consider going SN.  Maybe that is playing into what CCAA wants us to do, but hey, a child is a child.  Here was our reasoning for why we added our name to our agency&#8217;s SN list.</p>
<p>1. You can choose what SN you will accept.  Unlike the dossier filtering thru the CCAA then getting a referral &#8220;This is your child - will you take her?&#8221;, our agency gets a batch and the agency then pairs up families with children.  At least in our agency, there is no pressure to have to accept.  If you do not accept, it does not affect our standing at the CCAA or at our agency.  This was the clincher for me.  I was afraid of being given a child our family couldn&#8217;t handle, and then being unable to turn it down without detrimental effects.</p>
<p>2.  Your dossier never leaves the NSN track until you commit to a SN child.  CCAA has no idea you are on a SN list, has no idea if you review and turn down a child&#8217;s file.  If no child fits a profile that you feel your family can accept, your dossier still continues its process (albeit sluggishly now) thru the system.</p>
<p>3.  Some special needs are huge, some are remarkably minor.  Several of the last group of children our agency received included things like a small birthmark on a wrist, &#8220;pigeon toes&#8221;, etc.  </p>
<p>4.  I realized I did not need to feel guilty about not wanting a large SN.  I am continously amazed at the willingness of some familes to accept children with significant needs.  I was afraid if I didn&#8217;t accept a child, I would consign it to a life in the orphanage, etc.  That is not the case.  Over the last year, it seems that every SN child our agency received has found a family - including ones with large and sometimes ill-defined SN&#8217;s.</p>
<p>5.  Age range.  We actually have 3 bio dd&#8217;s, ages 7 (twins) and 4.  We asked for an 2-3 yo in our dossier.  Many SN children are a little older, but at least in our agency, it seems that half the SN&#8217;s referrals have been for infants under a year.  </p>
<p>6. One of our twins would have been SN.  She was born with a second thumb on her right hand.  It was removed when she was 6 months old.  She has a small scar.  That is the extent of it.  If she had been an orphan in China, she would have been considered initially un-adoptable.  Unbelievable to me - she is a joy.</p>
<p>7.  At this point, SN will most likely be much faster.  This is not a reason in itself, but did tip the scales for us.</p>
<p>When we first started paperchasing, I talked about SN with my sister, who adopted from China 1 year ago.  (Her wait was a TOTAL of 12 months - paperchasing to referral. ERGH!)  Both of us agreed that SN was not for us - who get&#8217;s pregnant and asks for a child with a SN?  So who would ask for an adopted child that way?  Most of this stemmed from fear and misunderstanding of the process (see #1).</p>
<p>Anyhow, I would encourage those of you who are open to this to consider looking as SN and finding out your options.  At the very least, it has given me hope that we will find our child sooner than the open-ended wait that is occuring on the NSN track.</p>
<p>Sorry this is so long.  I&#8217;ll try to keep the rest of my posts a bit shorter. :)</p>
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		<title>By: chinabound</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15591</link>
		<dc:creator>chinabound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15591</guid>
		<description>This makes me so sad. As someone mentioned before it really effects the older parents. This will definately put us out of contention for a second daughter. By the time we get our first, then you have to wait a year to submit another dossier, then two years on top of that????  Wow. I can't say I'm surpised, but I guess I let myself get excited at the prospect of a one year wait. ***sigh***</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This makes me so sad. As someone mentioned before it really effects the older parents. This will definately put us out of contention for a second daughter. By the time we get our first, then you have to wait a year to submit another dossier, then two years on top of that????  Wow. I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;m surpised, but I guess I let myself get excited at the prospect of a one year wait. ***sigh***</p>
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		<title>By: wickedwitcheast</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15589</link>
		<dc:creator>wickedwitcheast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/09/29/from-european-agency-2/#comment-15589</guid>
		<description>I am just speculating here- I get the feeling that this increased wait coupled with smaller groups of kids going out each mother is going to put smaller agencies out of business. If most agencies stay afloat with the money received from agency fees, and there are less kids going out of PRC than previously, this could make it very hard to keep everyone employed. I see this problem showing up in the SN area- agencies are growing increasingly stubborn about working with another agency to place a child, because the first agency will lose out $ that they need. 

I saw this wait coming months ago. I kept saying we would be at 3 years, but the optimists around me didn't want to see it. We are trying to get our ducks in a row to put together plan #2 which will include trying to adopt elsewhere first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just speculating here- I get the feeling that this increased wait coupled with smaller groups of kids going out each mother is going to put smaller agencies out of business. If most agencies stay afloat with the money received from agency fees, and there are less kids going out of PRC than previously, this could make it very hard to keep everyone employed. I see this problem showing up in the SN area- agencies are growing increasingly stubborn about working with another agency to place a child, because the first agency will lose out $ that they need. </p>
<p>I saw this wait coming months ago. I kept saying we would be at 3 years, but the optimists around me didn&#8217;t want to see it. We are trying to get our ducks in a row to put together plan #2 which will include trying to adopt elsewhere first.</p>
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