I’d like to find something constructive to talk about. Attachment or fun baby games or cool baby toys or something along those lines.
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Recipes are a great idea!
Also, I would love to talk about attachment. I don’t know what to do about the “no holding” rule. I want to have my baby feeling safe and secure, but I also know my family will be so hurt if they can’t hold her at all. I don’t want to play pass the baby, but I guess I feel like having my mom hold her for 5 minutes while I am right there shouldn’t hurt — or will it? I would love some opinions on this!
: ) wfp 8/24/05 NEXT!!!! :D
oh thats a good one – send on the recipes!!
. How about good parenting books …for toddlers, I liked Making the Terrible Twos Terrific. It’s a little too strict but good ideas to take from it.
Also, great reference book: How to Get Your Child to Love Reading. Pick a topic and she tells you twenty great books about it. Make pancakes for breakfast and she gives you 10-20 books where the characters aare making panacakes. I had great fun with this during the preschool years.
There are sooo many good ones. I’ll have to think.
You might want to find some recipes for steamed egg and congee, too. Not that you’ll want to freeze them, just that you may discover one or both of these is a huge hit with your child while you are in China.
I had to play around with steamed eggs to get them right, and I have no idea what finally worked because I never wrote it down and I haven’t made them in years.
Congee is easy, you just cook rice until it has the consistency of oatmeal. Most little bitty kids seem to like bananas mashed into it.
Attachment would be my choice. In some ways (don’t flame me) this wait has been a good thing for me because I have had more time to read and prepare myself to better care for our child. I am especially grateful for the link provided here by RQ to aforeverfamily.org. This is a great source of info on attachment. I’ve even sent my extended family over to it and they seem to better understand the issue of attachment. Please go and visit while you wait. It is definately worth it.
As far as recipes goes…I could use a few of those too :)
You’ll find an article on there about why relatives should not hold the baby. Send the link to your mom. If she isn’t online then print it out for her.
Waitingforpink,
I read somewhere that you really should not let anyone, who is not permanently living in your home hold your new baby until they have formed clear attachment bonds to you. I have heard that it is best to start telling family about the attachment issue and the NO holding for the first month or however long it takes so they are not stunned when you get home and say No holding. Also I have read that if you always keep your child in a form of carrier on your body that people/family are less likely to try to take and hold the baby from you. One family that went to china and home said this worked great they even took her to church in it so noone would even think to hold her. If their are any other suggestions I too would love to hear them. My mother is not going to do very well with this whole idea but I am going to do what is best for our little girl. I hope some of this helps.
Kathy
LID 2/17/06
I have an idea. I recently stumbled into a conversation with some friends about the process of becoming a parent. It was interesting. I wonder if it would help our friends here who are first-timers to hear about what was most challenging about becoming a parent.
I wouldn’t want it to be one of those typical “scare the beejesus out of the newbies” threads, where people say how horrible it is, you never sleep again, never shower, etc. (Not that those aren’t sometimes true–ha ha!). Something a little more constructive and substantive than that. How about this:
Those of you with kids already, what was most challenging or surprising about the transition to parenthood?
Here’s my own answer: I’m a Type A all the way. I organize, I plan, I problem solve. I’m one of those people about whom other people say, “She’s really got it together.” (Not bragging here…I’ve got plenty of faults, believe me!) Throughout my pre-parent life, I was always able to attack a problem, figure out a solution, and implement it. I approached my first child the same way: “Why is he acting like that? What should I do to fix it/change it?” I recall talking about sleep issues with a good friend when my son was a newborn. She said, “Mary, sometimes there just aren’t answers.” That was a revelation to me! Two more kids later, and I’ve become better at understanding that my kids will be in different phases throughout their childhood, and I can’t always get to the bottom of everything. Even if I could, they’d move on to a new phase by the time I figured the last one out! I am MUCH better at going with the flow that I ever was pre-parent. And it has forced me to make some healthy decisions about what is important i.e. keeping my house spotless, etc.
Related to this is another challenge for me. Because I am such an “accomplisher” who really values tranquility and our days going smoothly, I sometimes forget that I need to put effort into nurturing my relationship with my husband, just as I put effort into taking care of my kids, keeping up with the laundry, helping the kids with homework, etc. Because my marriage isn’t really a tangible thing I can put on my “To Do” list, I sometimes take it for granted. I’m married to a wonderful man and incredible father. Our relationship is at the center of the family we have built together, and I need to treat it as central to everything. Life gets so busy that it’s easy to forget that sometimes. It doesn’t mean we have to make time to go out on dates or take weekends away. It might only mean that I ask him about his day and really listen, or tell him how much I appreciate everything he does for us (he is very appreciative of me too, btw), or give him a back rub while we watch tv (as long as he doesn’t assume it’s going to get him some action at bedtime–ha ha!). Being a mom is hard, but being a dad isn’t exactly a cake-walk either.
Well, I’ve rambled enough. RQ, I hope it’s okay that I started this. I’d like to hear what others say. You can always learn something.
My daughter’s favorite food for a very long time was peas. She ate a small can of peas all by herself in one sitting about every other day. She would have eaten them every day if I had given them to her, but I just thought there should be other food, too. Her lunch usually consisted of a protein of some sort and a vegetable with maybe a few whole grain crackers and was followed by a fruit (usually two of the little cups of mandarin oranges, also a favorite).
One whole shelf of my cabinet stayed full of the small cans of veggies – lima beans and green beans and peas and corn and carrots (sliced horizontally so they weren’t a choking hazard) and I forget what else.
The snacks I kept (keep) on hand include fruit cups (mandarin oranges by themselves, peaches by themselves), individually wrapped colby/jack cheese in the thick little squares, raw carrots (now that she’s older, but not when she was younger as they are a choking hazard), apples, oranges, plums (with the pit removed), raisins (well, she hates them now but loved them when she was little), and (when she was little) the veggie wheels that are kind of like a cracker and are made to be a “first food”.
Grapes are a big no-no. As are hot dogs or anything shaped like a hot dog. Read up on the foods that are a choking hazard.
waitingforpink, your post reallly hit the reality button for me. I am not a licensed expert. They say ‘no holding’ but they don’t say ‘no touching or talking sweet to them’. If you are standing there, why couldn’t your mom hold her for a few minutes or hold her with you together. IMO, go for it girl. Best wishes. jfk
No holding rule? When we came back with our daughter in 1995, we were so exhausted because she had a nasty infection when we got her (we actually had to take her to a hospital in Guayang). I don’t believe we had been told about the no holding rule, and I’m sure we would not have followed it if we had. We were grateful that our family wanted to hold her and help take care of her during that time. We had been up with her almost 24/7 because she would not sleep with the infection and resulting fever. Emily would only calm down when someone, anyone, held her. It did not seem to affect her ability to bond with us at all, although I have to say that we lived 6 hours away from our families at the time, and so weekends were the only time she would have been around them.
I put my daughter on the floor on a padded mat and invited people to get in the floor and play with her.
No holding doesn’t mean no playing.
And I was on the floor as well, and she was often sitting in my lap or leaning up against me while playing or interacting with other family members. I think this taught her that I was her “home base” that she could rely on while exploring relationships with other people.
RQ-I love the idea of playing on the floor together. My mom has just finished her last chemo treatment, and the thought of telling her, she can’t hold her grandchild, is terribly upsetting to me. This is a great solution. See, this thread has already helped someone.
Kitkat, that hip-carrier idea is a brilliant solution; I love it! I was worried about the hordes at work, and the whole neighborhood is waiting for her, too, as well as swarms of friends. I can see sitting on the couch right next to my mother, and slipping off the shoulderstrap, so Mom can cuddle with her, but she’ll still be kinda in the sling…
‘Course, now I’ll worry over which sling to buy. Which sling is comfortable for a shortish, plump, way-too-top-heavy Mamma, and a short, stocky Pappa? Both of whom are not nearly as athletic or energetic as they were in their 30’s? Votes? Opinions?
For those of us first-timers who are waiting, what were the best 3 things that you bought for your baby before he/she arrived? what were the 3 things that you really didn’t need?
I want to buy more clothes, but have made myself stop (she already has 32 outifts in various sizes) because I don’t know what size/what season she will be here. I want to buy diapers, but based on what I am hearing about various sized behinds, it looks like that isn’t a good choice either. I am looking for stacking cups because two friends found that to be the toy of choice for their daughters. I have also been told that the collection of small stuffed animals might not go over so well since the babies don’t have toys in the SWI.
My big fear with attachment is there will be something wrong and I will miss it. Disordered attachment, anxious attachment all the problems seem to contradict. If the child is clingy it could be anxious attachment. If the child isn’t clingy it could be disordered attachment. I am just so scared there will be a problem and I will miss it.It seems like the more I read about it the more scared I become.
The no hold rule is easy for us. The family that lives close isn’t supportive so I am pretty sure they will be happy for us to cocoon away for several weeks.
I know I can handle the no sleep thing. I know I can handle the illness thing. I know I can handle the feeding thing. But this attachment thing scares the pants off me.
Related to attachment and sleep issues: One of the biggest mistakes I made early on as a first-time parent was trying to take the advice of a well-meaning pediatrician who recommended a Ferber-type approach to getting my baby to sleep. The theory basically being that it’s a healthy part of a baby’s development for her/him to learn self-comforting techniques that empower her to fall asleep independently, without a parent’s constant presence. The problem is that while this may work well for a child who hasn’t had attachment interrupted, post-institutionalized children have already had way too much practice with self-comforting and need to learn the opposite of independence–that they can depend on a parent to meet their needs, whenever and wherever. So after enduring a night or two of scream-filled, anxiety-laden behavior during which my daughter not only couldn’t find comfort but had screaming fits of escalating anxiety and anger, I FINALLY wised up and threw out the book and just let her sleep with me within arm’s reach so I would always be there to comfort her any time she needed comfort. Yes, I had horrible sleep deprivation for awhile (my girl is a thrasher and tended to sleep with her knee in my spine), but eventually she was sleeping well enough that I only needed to start the night with her, and after about age 4 she could sleep comfortably on her own.
My main point: take child-rearing advice from those who haven’t parented post-institutionalized children with a grain of salt and jettison it immediately if your gut tells you it’s wrong for your particular child. I still regret the couple of nights I tried to “ferberize” my own tyke–my temporary sleep-deprived state was a small price to pay for building her emotional security in the final analysis.
Changing gears, here’s an easy recipe for the vegetarians in the group: Last night I made pasta with black (Italian) kale, and to my amazement my 7-year-old (who hates cooked spinach) loved the stuff. Just chop 1/2 lb. kale and parboil for 5 min., then saute in olive oil for another 5 with 2-3 cloves of chopped garlic. Use the water you cooked the kale in to cook 1/2 lb. whole wheat spaghetti. Once everything is cooked, toss it all together with about a cup of grated parmesan or romano cheese, with more cheese on top. Makes about 4 servings. I’ve seen similar recipes with crumbled bacon or sausage added, too.
I love the advice about playing but not holding. I am already letting family know the rules. They are already OK with it. I know it will be hard but the playing on the floor is a perfect alternative.
I have a question about diet. What did you feed your child when you returned from China? I assume you had to change her diet slowly to keep up tummy happy. How long did it take to transition and what foods did you use?
Hello everyone! First time poster, long time lurker. I love this thread and wanted to share a great attachment tool–infant massage. I am certified in infant massage instruction and highly reccomend the book–Infant Massage: A Handbook for Loving Parents by Vimala Schneider McClure. The benefits of infant massage and attachment are phenonemonal & I can’t say enough about it. Many of our little ones will not have gotten enough of the nurturing touches that they need and deserve. Massage is great way to connect & focus on their needs while promoting bonding & physical development. If you aren’t a book reader or if you are and want even more resources see if a local hospital has classes, check out the yellow pages or do a search engine on-line that will lead you to someone who teaches parents infant massage locally. Often libraries will have videos/dvds on infant massage.
Does anyone know of any good attachment/bonding books?
Or how about just a good basic baby care info book? I mean, I babysat tons, but I need to read up on things. I will be a first time mom here, so I want some good info.
Waiting4mybaby, 3 baby things that worked for us:
1. Peg Perego “Prima Pappa” high chair. I initially balked at the cost (around $140 8 years ago), but this is a great adjustable chair that also folds easily so you can take it with you to have dinner at friends’ homes or wherever. Take off the tray and you have a great adjustable toddler/preschooler chair you can use at the table, too. I’ll get a replacement cushion and use it for #2 as well, so good value for the money.
2. Diaper genie. No explanation needed. ;o)
3. A wheeled walker thing that has toys on the front–the toddler can hold on to it while she/he is learning to walk, or sit on the floor and play with the doo-dads on the front.
wait4hannah, Deborah Grey’s “Attaching in Adoption” is a very helpful book.
More good baby/toddler foods (in addition to the congee, mashed banana, etc., listed above): mashed potatoes, mashed sweet potato, applesauce, bland-ish foods (vegetables, meats) you can smush up in the blender, yogurt (but watch out for milk allergies).
Re Gerber-type toddler foods, if you want to try the jarred stuff: My 15-month-old was weirded out by the texture of these at first–slimy compared to what she was used to, I guess. They can be convenient, though.
I think my comments are moderated out, but I did want to say that infant massage is wonderful! I did it with one of my babies who had eczema and it became such a wonderful part of our evening. I will do it for sure again.
I think the holding/no holding is a personal issue…and one related to how well the baby bonds while in China. We did it both ways….baby 1 no holding, baby 2 holding OK. Both girls are happy, healthy, well-attached children. Depends on the baby!
And I know I’m not alone when I say … diaper genie – ick! hated it! Some like it, some hate it.
On one yahoo board we’re talkin’ about food in China!
Steamed eggs…I think the key was 1/4 c. of water…both our girls loved them!
I pray your mom lives many more years, and is able to enjoy watching your daughter grow up. But if I were you, I would let her hold your daughter as much and as often as it pleases her to do so. I would also ensure I took lots and lots of pictures of Grandma doing exactly that.
We have three little girls from China, and did not follow the “rule”. Two had been institutionalized and one had been in foster care. Each one bonded just fine. And each one had been warmly cuddled and hugged by aunts, uncles, grandparents and cousins – and loved every minute of it.
Certainly it is wise to not allow your child to go to any and everyone. But personally, I would make allowances where Grandma and Grandpa are concerned, given the fact that none of us know how long they will be with us. Later, your child will cherish the memories captured in the photographs.
I guess we never knew there was a rule. We brought Lark home from China three years ago. I was careful about not just letting everybody swarm her, but aunts, uncles and grandparents were free to hold and cuddle!! Lark came into a family and I think there is merit to the idea that a child needs to bond to a family.
I carried her in a front pack most of the first year–this prevented the wonderful, caring ladies at church from parading her around (which would have freaked both Lark and me out!) But they could still play peekaboo with her and caress her tiny hands.
I wouldn’t stress this one–as far as I can see, no matter what your parenting strategy is, most of our little Chinese girls seems to thrive. First and foremost is love…always love.
Cheers
Liz in CO
Like an earlier poster, I have always been a Type A personality. So I was very surprised to learn that when it comes to raising my daughter, I am not a Type A personality. My advice is relax and enjoy your child. Yes, some (not all) children are going to have problems attaching, some with sleeping, some with eating, etc. Deal with the real problems rather than over analyzing everything your child does. In other words, try not to “look†for problems that don’t exist. Don’t ignore signs that there are problems either, but if a book says that children should walk at 12 months and you child is 12 months and 1 week and not walking, it’s not necessarily a sign that there is a problem or that it’s an adoption related problem – some biological children don’t walk at a certain time either! Some children hit milestones early, others much later. Unless your doctor is worried, try and relax. Enjoy the moments you have with your children, they grow so fast and worry about the little things won’t make you or your child happier. You’ve all waited a long time for your children, enjoy them. Hug and kiss them often!
Best ever toy – the Mozart Cube by Embryonics, each side of the cube is a different musical instrument, which plays by itself or with other sides when you press on them, about 6 different mozart compositions. it also lights up. My dd loved it ever since she was 6 months old, it is still her favorite toy at 18 months.
Our little gal was 13 months when we first held her. She was already walking and talking and very opinionated. Holding her was like holding/hugging a board and she would push us away after a few seconds. She didn’t always want to be put down, but she was uncomfortable with the closeness. For the first week or so, pretty much all the touching she wanted from me was joining our pointer finger tips together (she was a little better with her dad). She would let me feed her but maintained a suspicious look towards both her dad and me. We could get her to laugh by being silly but she really didn’t smile for many weeks. She wasn’t shy and would walk up to anybody (we let her know that was unacceptable). She didn’t seem to care where we (her parents) were most of the time. She did not want to be held when she was sleepy and perfered to be tucked into bed and left to put herself to sleep. Of course we still insisted on a lap time for reading a story and singing her “love songs”.
So we followed out insticts and let her take it slow. We treated her with love and respect. Including repect for her personal space at times…which she really seemed to need. Simple as that. Don’t get me wrong, we’re a VERY affectionate family (she also has 3 teenage sib’s) and she got loved on a ton, but we were careful to “read her”. She turned 3 in August and she’s now the most empathetic and loving little girl. She wears a constant smile and just radiates a joy. And to MY great joy, she’s a real “mommy’s girl”. …. That’s my attachment story. :)
P.S. I love the massage suggestion. Our gal loved to have her back scratched and it really relaxed her and I think helped with the bonding.
I think a different kind of book. One on health attachment versus “this is my baby don’t touch her†syndrome. LOL.
Seriously, my mom passed on several years ago and I don’t live anywhere near my family. All of DH’s family has babies—including DH from his first marriage. I am very much in the mode of, “This is my baby.†I know, I know not healthy. I am sure I will snap out of it at some point. My mother-in-law has attended some conferences designed for the extended families so she is well aware about the “no holding†rule. We have also discusses these issues with my step kids ages 10 and 8. They will be able to play with their new sister, but not hold her for awhile. DH will be lucky if he gets to hold her.
I know, I know . . .
Recipes for you can freeze for when you get back. The suggestions sound pretty good so far. Really, you can cook just about any kind meat (except seafood) and then freeze it for a quick thaw, re-heat and eat meal later on for up to about 2 months before it will get that freezer-taste.
I have bought a few books for our daughter, some stuffed toys and a couple rag dolls with Asian faces, and some decorations for her room. We also a few outfits that people have given us—I’m holding off on the clothes until the referral. We are still working on the nursery. I am going to work on it this weekend. Still painting. I hope to finish the painting over Columbus Day weekend. Then DH gets to sand and refinish the floor. Once all that is done we will buy a crib etc.
I am also a type A personality, but honestly. I don’t care about the house being clean, having everything planned to a “tâ€, the sleep schedule, etc. I just want my referral!! I just want to be a mom. When did it get so freaking difficult?
Anything to keep busy, busy, busy, so I don’t get totally depressed with this god-awful wait!!!
The holding thing isn’t really a RULE, it’s more of a suggestion, and it soooo depends on the child. My daughter was (and is) a complete social butterfly. She practically leaped into my dad’s arms when we got off the plane. She went to everyone with open arms and a smile, but would occasionally hold out her little arms and say “Mamaâ€. Really, I had told everyone “no holdingâ€, but in our case, she was fine with it. Good thing, too, because I came home with bronchitis and a sinus infection and spent our second night home unable to even function. My parents were staying with me (they had been dog sitting) so my mom took care of my daughter for about 12 hours until the antibiotics kicked in. She would bring her in to play with me, but for the most part, Mom did all the care giving. My daughter survived. She is thoroughly attached to me, and is crazy about “Gammaâ€. Do what works for you, and don’t worry too much. You’ll know what your child needs.
Oh, and Diaper Genie – stinko!!!!!!!! Diaper Champ rules!
We were well into the adoption process (9 years ago) before we ever heard the words “attachment disorder”. Wow, was that an eye-opening meeting! The best thing we did was read, and re-read the book “Toddler Adoption, the Weavers Craft” by Mary Hopkins-Best. Even if you are planning on adopting an infant, this book is a must read! It does talk about limiting holding by others and gives advise on how to explain the reasons for this. Our daughter was 3 when we got her and our, then, 7 month old son from Russia. (BTW, they are Asian, so we look forward to them having a neice that “looks like them”). Having the knowledge learned from this book saved us some real dissapointment and concern when our 3-yr. old started to reject us on the trip home. We knew it was her way of protecting herself from falling in love with someone that might leave her as previous care-givers had done. (She had been moved from one orphanage to another, as she reached certain ages.) As for the sleeping arrangements once at home, we put both of them in the same small room, next to our bedroom. As long as they were both there, she was fine, but she didn’t want to go to bed without her brother in the room. He, on the other hand was a cuddler from the first moment we met him…he is still our little charmer. When the young nanny brought him to us, she “flew” him through the air, a game she knew he liked. When she handed him to me, (this tiny little guy weighed only 11 pounds at 7 months old) he was laughing out loud…a real belly laugh. It is the most precious memory in the world! Our daughter soon came around to letting herself be comfortable with us, too. But it did take more work and time. She has become a well adjusted 12 year old (today is her birthday!) and a very loved member of our family. But I cannot stress enough…read the book!
I’m fascinated by “the rule” about no holding. I tend to agree with some of the other posts that holding by Grandma and Grandpa and other relatives is fine. I mean, I wouldn’t allow them to take them over to the point of confusion but it seems that we do want our daughter to bond with her family members. Certainly brothers and sisters are going to be holding and playing with the baby, I’m not really understanding the difference here. It seems to me that the few minutes of love by family member then return to Mommy and Daddy actually reinforces who the parents are and would lead to attachment.
Dh and I both work full time so that means we have no choice but to use day care. Certainly the day care provider will be holding our daughter and caring for her. I have to believe that my child will understand through all of our actions that she is our daughter. Other temporary caretakers come and go but we are forever. Day after day, year after year, she’s not getting rid of us LOL!
Now, as far as going off with strangers, I think that one is good to avoid for all babies, bio and adopted. Most babies, newborns and older ones, don’t like being taken away from their parents by strangers. I think if I had an adopted (or bio for that matter) child who didn’t seem to care, that might indicate some attachment issues that need to be addressed.
Having expressed these opinions I reserve the right to completely change my opinions after we bring our daughter home. I have two bio children and I know that many of my pre-parent beliefs and opinions have changed as a result of over 18 years of parenting. I’m sure I’m in for more changes. That’s why I am careful not to discount the BTDT folks, I read and think and hopefully will apply this knowledge to my own parenting in a way that works for our family.
Last thought: I often feel concerned when I read about how strictly some people feel about enforcing the no holding rule. I think its fine if that’s your parenting plan, it works for you and you are comfortable with it. But, for some parents (especially first timers although not necessarily) who have suddenly become the parents of an older, confused, grieving child with his or her own issues, I wonder if it leads to even more stress. Some people are just exhausted and I’m sure feel like they need some help. I hope that no one ever feels like they can’t ask for it or accept it without feeling guilty that they’re not following “the rule” and messing their kid up for life.
LostInDespair, sorry I meant to include a website in my original post that is a great resource for those trying to figure out which “baby wearing” carrier to use. The site is http://www.thebabywearer.com . It has articles, information, and resources designed for all of us baby wearers out there.
This is long because there are so many great topics!
What to buy and what to pass on:
Three best things we purchased for baby (sorry if these are obvious): car seat, diaper genie, back pack style diaper bag (Land’s End I think) Things we didn’t need: I had a lot of various diaper rash creams and orajel teething type products. We didn’t use any of them. Our daughter was 9 months when we got home and didn’t have any problems with diaper rash or teething. Also the fancy bottles/nipples were a waste. She prefered the cheapy type and I bought way too many. I think 6 is enough. We also rarely used the rather pricey changing table/dresser. We ended up using the counter top in our master bathroom 95% of the time.
Food (baby):
In China she would eat noodles, soft bread or crackers, soups, fruit, lots of cheerios, etc. She wasn’t too fond of the congee even if we put a little sugar in it. I think most hotels have a buffett sytle restaurant. This is great as you can bring her various things to try to see what she likes. Home; same stuff…we did use some baby food for a while but she really prefered regular table food. We’d just cut or smash it a bit. She LOVED green beans and peas and pasta of any kind. Apple Sauce and cream of wheat were popular too. We had to try various formulas for a while. That was the only thing she was picky about. She still loves Ramen noodles which are a cheap quick meal. I don’t put the entire seasoning packet in because it is too much sodium and I add frozen peas and carrots to it so it has a little nutritional value.
Food (post trip):
Before you leave you won’t be in any mood or have time to prepare frozen meals for when you get back. So don’t wait until the last minute to do this. If you forget there are a lot of good frozen family style meals you can purchase these days. Or this is a great way to let friends/family help you out…don’t be afraid to ask for help.
Attachement:
We did let others hold her but kept it brief. We don’t have family close by so it wasn’t a big issue. My family did come in a few weeks after we were home and I had prepd them so they would just hold her for a while. To me the thing you need to be firm on is that the baby knows that the Mommy and Daddy are the ONLY ones that will meet her comfort needs. So don’t let other’s feed her, change her, hold her when she is crying, get her in the middle of the night, etc.
We have a jacuzzi tub in our bathroom so we would spend a LOT of time with her in the bathtub. I think the skin on skin contact and just being in the comforting warm water in a small space close to Mommy or Daddy was very bonding.
Parenting:
The thing that I finally learned was that sometimes when she is crying it isn’t something that I can fix. She is likely grieving and all I can do is hold her and let her know I am there and feeling sad with her. I used to get so frustrated and feel like a failure when I couldn’t get her to stop crying. I thought that was my job….make her stop crying. My job is to let her feel what ever she feels and let her know that that is OK and that her Mommy is with her and loving her forever.
Love this thread!
I am going to follow suggestions and not take many toys or stuffed animals to China, but I have found just a couple that I think (hope) will be great. One is by Lamaze and it’s a soft toy that has different sounds and textures to it depending on where you touch it. It’s small and soft (easy to stuff in a suitcase) but hopefully a good developmental toy. The other is a soft book with similar features -sounds and textures. Any other suggestions? Oh, PLEASE, where do you find stacking cups? No luck there yet. LID 9/29
Waiting4emily, you can find stacking cups just about anywhere Wal-mart, Target, BabiesRUs, Buy Buy Baby, etc. Often they are located with the bath toys because they are designed for water play, too. They are a great thing to take because not only do they stack but they also nest inside each other so they take up very little room. Happy Shopping!
You indicated you might be intereseted in buying diapers. We wanted to do that also, but were unsure of size and brand. So each pay day. We went to Wal-Mart and bought a $20.00 gift card and keep them stored for diapers. This way we could buy them as we needed and the expense wasn’t such and added shock.
My thoughts about parenting, as a Mother to 5, are all summed up in a quote by Maya Angelou. She said that every time your child comes into your view, let him or her see your delight! Isn’t that wonderful?
Also, from one of my daughters, who is a wonderful mom, I learned to realize when a child’s behaviors seem to ‘deserve love and positive attention ‘the least….is when they need that love the most.
My other strong suggestion is to both new Mom’s and new Dad’s: trust YOUR instincts, and not always be swayed by the
‘advice’ from others…..except my advice , in this case!! (giggle)
You guys are amazing. tgthread, would you consider running for Pres.?
I just love RQ and the very interesting discussions. I would like to say that when two of our friends came home with their babies…we couldnt wait to love on them!! How disappointing it would have been not to be able to hold them. If they( the presious babies), showed any sign of not wanting to be held by a stranger then we would have not pursued. We wanted to hold and kiss and share our love and they enjoyed being held and the attention. When we bring our Lily home, I want her to know that their of wonderful people who love her and want to hold her and show her the much deserved attention. If she resists, then fine but I believe that after being in China for 2 weeks, she will know who her Mommy and Daddy are and if she is fine with others holding her then that should be something that is not denied. I believe we should all do what we can to form an inbreakable bond with our children,,this is just my point.
Here’s a new topic… I like to follow the follow the posts on The Story of You website. This morning, a family posts with the intent to “set the story straight”. There was an article in the Sunday Chicago Tribune this past weekend about polygamy in, I believe, Utah. It was the front page feature. So, in the wake of the article, and being confronted about being from the mentioned area, they felt the need to “come clean” about their family(s) and their lifestyle. So, here they are in China adopting not the first, but a second child, and all of this is being revealed–in a very public forum. Then they go on to discuss the most recent antics of their child and the remainder of the trip. I’m curious as to what everyone else may make of all this. I’m curious as to what China may make of all this. I’m hoping that the adoption I just started is going to happen as I think if China ever needed a reason to shut everything down, this is it!
waiting4emily: affordable stacking cups can be found at Toys R Us and/or Babies R Us. You can also spend big bucks and get them through Discovery Toys.
Our travel dates are Nov. 1 -18, so as you can imagine, I’m in the middle of deciding what to take/what not to take, toy-wise. I’ve heard too many people say that stuffed animals aren’t a hit, so I’m leaning towards baby Duplo blocks (the rounded, chunky ones, not those with the right angles, for building/stacking and also some that have little rattles in them), a few balls of various sizes/textures (balls are her favorite toy), a beach ball, some board books with lots of pictures, rattles and, of course, the ubiquitous stacking cups. Oh and textured links (I loved having the links when my boys were little, you can use them to attach almost anything to the stroller so things don’t get lost!)
I tried to post a while ago, so I’m assuming it’s “out there” somewhere and lost. So I’ll try this again.
We were well into our adoption paperchase 9 years ago, before we ever heard the words “attachment disorder”. Wow. that was an eye-opening meeting! The very best advise I can give is to read Mary Hopkins-Best’s book “Toddler Adoption, the Weaver’s Craft”. Even if you are planning on adopting an infant, it’s a wealth of knowledge researched and written by a child psycholigist and adoptive parent. It covers many of the issues you have talked about above including holding (or limiting that). The one thing that we used a great deal with our 3 yr. old for some time after we first got her was to insist upon making and holding eye contact. That seemed to be difficult for her, and that is a red flag in attachment. The book which we read, and re-read gave us the confidence and assurance we needed to recognize the “signs” of issues early on in our aquaintnce with our daughter. She started to reject us about the time we started our trip home from Ulan-Ude in Russia. This would have been heart breaking if we didn’t know that she was trying to protect herself from falling in love with another person that may be taken away from her. She had been moved from one orphanage (and caregiver) to another as she passed each birthday. Our son, on the other hand, was a tiny (11 pounds) almost 8 month old, and was a people person from the word “GO”. When the young nanny brought him to us, she “flew” him through the air, a game she knew he loved, and handed him to me. He was laughing out loud with the cutest belly laugh I have ever heard! What a precious memory! BTW, our kids are of Asian heritage, so we are looking forward to them having a neice that will “look like them”. Our kids are doing great. Our daughter has grown into a well adjusted 12 yr. old (Today is her birthday!) and our son is everyone’s favorite playmate at school. We can’t imagine our lives without them. But we are really, REALLY ready for our next grandchild to arrive from China! But, please, read the book!
I very much appreciate what you said – in fact, if you refer to my previous post you’ll see I advocate that family members be permitted to hold and cuddle the baby. But if it’s ok with you, I’d just like to clarify that for some it’s not about the child “resisting”, it’s more about the fact that they likely won’t. This because they are so used to going to “whomever”.
That’s why there’s a whole school of thought out there which recommends not allowing the child to be held by others for the first while. The premise is that it will help the child to begin to understand that mommy and daddy will meet all of their needs. This in order to help them attach and bond.
But again, while I absolutely understand this school of thought – and certainly see the validity of it – I’m also of the opinion that it is important for our newly adopted children to bond with grandparents, siblings, etc. Certainly I would limit the contact to a degree, but would not shut it off altogether in those first weeks, and perhaps months, at home.
Like you, I have friends (and family) who’ve adopted from China, and I just have to tell you – I cannot wait to get my hands on their little muffins. But I also realize they come to me readily because they have not yet formed a strong attachment to mom and dad. How glad it makes me when I eventually find they prefer to not come to me or anyone else.
Of course, you probably already know everything I’ve just said :-)
Thank you DebbyY…I have never adopted before.. I have two bio children. I know that all children are not the same and for every child that bonds quickly, there will also be children that have a difficult time in bonding. I want to make sure that our baby know who Mommy and Daddy are and that this bond will be a complete bond. I also agree that I should limit the contact with other to a degree. I would never want to confuse her or delay our attactment with her. Thanks so much….One more reason why I love the RQ site!!
This will be my first child so all my information and resources come from my best friend – she has three children and their daughter was adopted from Russia. She was kind enough to get me a subscription for Parenting magazine. Being a first time parent and single, I am studying as much as I can – however, some of the articles made me panic. They always have a section on choking – or severe allergic reactions – some thing that though I am well aware of that these can happen, spring fear into the heart of me! The ever present thought of…”what if I do something and she gets hurt because I did not know something in advance” takes over… So, in the midst of this worry, I called her and she suggested the book “Feed me I’m Yours”. It is GREAT! It goes through baby food, finger food and toddler food – offers recipes, crafts and birthday party suggestions. There are also tips throughout on foods to be aware of like honey and peanut butter. Eased that one fear for me.
I love the book suggestions – I am a big book fan! I have a book on baby sign language and will get one on baby massage now!!
Now about these steamed eggs…can someone do a step by step on how you do this and what the end results should be? I think I can do the congee – I am thinking that takes extra water than on the box – correct?
~Tigerlily – we have two bio children as well! Plus our 3 darlings from China – with another to join us (sooner, rather than later, we hope!).
I don’t know how old your children are, but ours are 19 and 16. They were 10 and 13 when we first started on this wonderful journey of adoption. They absolutely dote on the little ones. And the little ones just love big brother and sister soooo much!
No doubt yours dote on the wee one (s?) as well :-D .
But….but…but….there ARE rumors! There are like agencies, including mine, that have told us to be on the lookout for SN TA’s. And all of these agencies have packets on the way from China, arriving Monday.
I really like this thread, b/c it gives us all something valuable to do while waiting. As a mom to 3 kids, I can relate to all the topics here. The biggest surprise that I had when I became a parent was how vulnerable you feel. You read in magazines and books about everything from choking to abductions to autism, and you feel paralyzed with fear sometimes that something bad is going to happen to your kid. Or, you read all about everything that you are supposed to do as a parent, then realize you haven’t done any of the things that are advised and you’re convinced that your child will end up hating you or at least in therapy;-) No matter if you have one child, or twelve, you are still vulnerable as a parent. It is likely that, at some point, you will find yourself in an ER in the middle of the night with a child, or at the losing end of a power struggle with your teenager. I have been a parent for seven years now, and there are still some days I wonder what the heck I am doing and if I am doing it even halfway right!
The other thing that I have learned from being a parent is that rules are not rigid, but should be used as guidelines. Follow your heart; listen to your gut; and make the decision that seems right for you and your child. We got flack from people for letting our oldest two co-sleep with us when they were babies (the youngest did not want to); we also got flack for giving our kids a pacifier. After a while, we finally realized that we would politely say, “thanks for the advice,” and continue to parent the way that we felt was best for us and our family.
All of that said, I am still anxious about bringing a new child into our home, creating positive attachment bonds with her, and meeting all of her needs. This is new to me, as our other three kids are biological and we have had them since day one. I know that there will be difficult days when I wonder what to do, but I am confident that this child is supposed to be in our family for a reason, just like her brothers and sister. We are going to love her with all of our hearts, and just make up the rest as we go along! :-) Good luck to everyone!!!
That was supposed to say…there are like 7 agencies, including mine telling us to expect TA on Monday. We have a tracking number for DHL and everything.
Thanks for the attachment site RQ…hope they have info for toddlers, as our daughter had her 2nd birthday yesterday! I have the attachment book recommended and am going to read it again. Trying to decide what we need to bring for her when we go to China in November. Anybody that adopted an older toddler feel free to give me some advice!
Cloth diapers – we didn’t use them the way they were meant to be used, but they are so fantastically absorbent for drool, spills and any other mess a baby (or a parent) can make. We went through several of them in a day. Ivory soap for laundry. Never thought about how sensitive baby’s skin can be. And my sister’s tip was, “Babies don’t fall off floors.”
Oneblessedfamily,
There are TA’s coming that is wonderful are you waiting for one? I pray we receive a SN referral in the next batch that comes into our agency b/c that would be fabulous!! Congrats if you are getting a TA!!
Kathy
Much is being said about our babies being attached to us but what about concerns about attaching to the baby? Anyone read/have any good advice about that? I think some people may have unrealistic expectations about falling instantly in love with their new child and if that doesn’t happen they feel guilty. Any thoughts?
Here in the NY/NJ area much of us are routing for a Subway World Series between my much beloved Yankees and that other team from Queens. Anyone out there want to talk about who they think will be in the World Series? The Twins pitching and passion has me concerned in the AL and of course if our friend A-Rod can be clutch down the playoff stretch is another question. Thoughts?
Easy Congee
————
1.5 cups raw rice
4 quarts boiling water (16 cups)
2 teaspoons oil
1 tablespoon salt
ginger–3 large pieces
green onions
chicken or turkey carcass/bones
Boil water. Mix rice and salt with oil. Add to boiling water.
Cover.
After 2 hours (yes, 2 hours) add bones and ginger.
Simmer 1.5-2 hours (do not overboil/ boil it dry)
Remove bones (use slotted spoon)
Serve with green onions, soy sauce, and chicken meat.
Ingredients:
2 chicken breasts (boneless and skinless)
250 gr (8 oz) long grain rice
4 slices of fresh ginger
a few drops of sesame oil
a few drops of light soy sauce
1 tablespoon of chopped coriander
2 spring onions, chopped
Method:
1) Simmer the chicken breasts for about 15 minutes in a pan of boiling
water. Remove the breasts but save the water in the pan. This is now
the chicken stock
2) Rinse the rice under cold running water. Place 1 litre (1.75 pints)
of the chicken stock into a pan and add the rice and ginger. Bring the pan
to the boil then lower the heat. Simmer without a lid for about 1.5 hours
or until the rice is very soft. Keep the heat low so that the porridge
does not boil over, and stir often so that it does not stick. If it becomes
too thick to stir, add more of the chicken stock to the pan.
3) While the porridge is cooking, chop the cooked chicken breasts and
place to one side.
4) When it is ready the porridge should be thick and creamy
5) Place the porridge in a serving bowl. Drizzle it with sesame oil and
and soy sauce and stir. Top with the chicken and add salt. Garnish with
coriander and spring onion
sodergal, there is a fabulous book dealing with exactly that issue. It is called Secret Thoughts of an Adoptive Mother by Jana Wolf. I think its a beautiful, frank must read. You made a great point.
now that pedro’s out i think the mets might not make it to the series, as much as i despise pedro (since the zimmer incident) & we are huge yankee fans, i kind of wanted to see the mets get in, willie randolph rocks
I’m a first time poster, and this discussion is just too fun to pass up on.
I purchased Parents Magazine Buckets of Buckets for my now five-year-old for his first birthday. He and my 7 and 8 year olds still play with them all the time. They are like jumbo stacking cups, so they may not be practical for taking to China. At home though, they have so many uses. The largest one has a handle, and the others nest inside. They’re great in the bathtub, in the yard, in the living room, and almost anywhere else. I bought mine at Target, but our store doesn’t carry them anymore. I did an internet search and found out they are still available. I’ll definitely be buying another set for dd. The ones we have are pretty worn.
We went the Ferber route with our boys on recommendation from our pediatrician, but our daughter’s room contains a crib for her and a twin bed for dh or myself if needed. If she wants or needs us to be present at bedtime, we’ll be there. If not, the bed is there for her when she is ready for a big girl bed.
As for preparing meals in advance, soups also freeze well. We eat a lot of soup at our house with homemade bread (bread machine).
I too am interested in hearing about different Mamma’s preferences for slings, etc. There have so many great suggestions so far. Please keep them coming!
In the attachment thing- we have been home since April- and it is amazing how the bond grows- even when you think you are already bonded. We just hit 6 months and it is a wonderful journey.
As for the holding thing- my mom was going to try for the no holding rule- but as soon as we were off the plane she just couldn’t contain herself. And once she did my Dad and sister held her too. It seems to have been fine. We did, and still do have Langley sleeping in our bed, which works for us and I believe adied a bunch in our bonding (plus the fact she was scared of her crib).
Food- she loves, loves, loves fruit- cantalope, watermelon, apples, bananas, grapes (cut into litttle peices). She would eat yogurt and cantalope only if we would let her.
Can we get a folder for these recipes???My printer is off doing something I know not what but it isn’t printing. And I’ll never find these when I come home. This is GREAT!
Also ditto on the steamed eggs…a layman’s step by step guide PLEASE!!!
I read Weaver’s Craft as well, however, readers of this book must keep in mind that in many instances, these are worse case scenarios that are presented. It is impt to be informed but trust your instincts above all.
Sweetie; I know what you mean about looking back and realizing what a journey the bonding and getting to know each other is. At our one year aniversary we looked back to see how far we had all come, when like you, we thought we were already there months before. It’s like watching a rose bloom….It’s beautiful.
Baby toys — This maybe somewhat OT, but I thought there might be someone with some knowledge or experience who could suggest a baby toy for a one year old with a disease that keeps her from sitting up and moving around without assistance (her vision is impaired, but her hearing is still good). I’ve seen several of the colorful soft toys at her house. Thought something similar that played music also with maybe soft pieces (like animals) that can be taken out and shown to her. I’m sure there are lots out there but you know how it is, when you start looking for something specific you can’t find it. Thanks for any help.
Someone asked about the parent bonding with the child. The bond for me was not instant, but I didn’t worry because I knew it would happen and it did. When i was handed my daughter I thought she was beautiful and I wouldn’t have traded her for another baby. But she did not feel like “my” child yet. Soon after we got home, I had a huge medical scare with my daughter – she tested positive for HIV. I freaked out and cried for myself and for her (I’m a single mom, so it was just the two of us). That night she was in bed and I went in to check on her and that was the moment it hit me – I was so bonded to this beautiful girl. I knew she was completely my daughter and I would do anything for her. 3 days later a hurricane hit South Florida where I was living and I lost power for 9 days plus all communication with the doctor and the specialist I was supposed to be seeing. 9 days without power and no where to go forced 24 hour togetherness and bonding and it was great for our relationship! After I finally got in to see the specialist and 5 weeks later, I finally got DNA tests back to show that she was not HIV positive. I will never know if the original test was just a lab error or if her biological mother was HIV positive and my daughter just carried the antibody (which may have been eliminated from her system by the time she had the more sophisicated DNA test). The doctor seems to think it was lab error. My point is, don’t worry if the bond isn’t there instantly (it isn’t always there instantly with bio children either). It will come (hopefully under much less stressful and dramatic circumstances that what happened with us!)
This is my first post, yeah! I just wanted to give some advice to anyone interested in making freezer meals. If you make meals be sure and put a label on everything. The label should tell what the freezer item is, the date that it was made, and cooking instructions. This gives you all the info right at your fingertips. I do a lot of freezer cooking and trust me when I say that everything starts to look alike when it is frozen!
Regarding the attachment thread … I was one of those people who thought I could not say no to family when they all wanted to hold my son. I watched as he was passed around. I felt like it beyond my control. It took us a long time to bond. I’m not sure if it was because I let others hold him. Our son initially bonded to his dad and then to me. I would say it took about 2-3 years for the bond to fully form and it was hard on all of us. This time I will do things differently …
I used to work with children and adults with developmental delays. One young man I worked with was completely blind and had severe physical disabilities and developmental delays. One thing he enjoyed exploring was a Koosh ball (I’m not sure how to spell it.) It’s hard to describe–soft rubber pom-pom in multiple colours is the best I can do. Another thing we used to do was upturn a tambourine, put some smallish, multi-textured, multi-sounded toys in it, and then put in an electric razor (with the blade removed). This would make everything vibrate, and he was much more interested in exploring the textures and sounds. (The Vision Itinerant teacher suggested that we use a vibrator because it was easy to hold, but no one at my work place had one…or would admit to having one, lol).
I don’t know the degree of disability this child has, but another thing I learned about at a workshop about working with children with vision impairment and multiple disabilities was something called a resonance board. It is a rather thin piece of wood with about a quarter inch ridge all around it. You put it on the floor, place yourself and the child lying on the resonance board and drop toys like balls and marble on it. If made properly, the resonance boards can stimulate play.
Don’t know if these ideas are too extreme for the needs of the child you are shopping for.
Hi everyone,
First chance to check back since my post this morning (work, the nerve of it!). I want to apologize if I created problems with my wording of the holding “rule”. I have visited the attachment sites and I totally understand the importance of attachment. I want to do whatever is best for my daughter. However, I also want my family to be able to feel a part of all this. I liked the playing on the floor suggestion, as well as the holding her with me right there.
For what its worth, I am getting the hip panda for baby wearing. Also, I defn. will be the only one (or my dh) to change or feed her. Since I will be staying home with her, I hope that she attaches quickly. I want to do all I can to help that .
I am planning to go to Let’s Dish and make dinners to freeze. Check it out if you haven’t been — its wonderful.
This is fun, and some really good advice. I am ready for rumors tho!
: ) wfp 8/24/05
CMBJ———-I am a special ed teacher and work with nonambulatory, visually impaired kids………..not many people know this, but Toys R Us puts out a special catalog…….call and ask…….it has all their regular toys and has little symbols specifying which ones are good for kids with vision probs or hearing probs, etc………..anything that is musical that is sort of cause/effect would be good for a child with the issues you’ve described……good luck!
As far as attachment goes, I imagine each kid is totally different………we had some real social butterflies in our group and if you read about it that is supposed to be a sign of problematic attachment………my baby took right to me…….pass the baby? not a chance……….being a 2nd time mom, I would be ok with people holding her (family at least) but she’s not having it…………..she CLEARLY knows who is supposed to give the bottle……….mommy, mommy, and only mommy……….poor daddy……..she’d rather starve than take the bottle from him………..but we’re trying when she is calm………he can hold her…….unless mommy walks by! She loves sis and is sleeping in sis’s room with her like a champ………..she would sleep 20 min………cry for 10 all nite when she was in with us………..just testing me to see if I’d keep coming………….it was hard, but I did. This has been a much different experience than bio.
First time poster here. I wanted to add our attachment experience with our son adopted from Russia at eight months. He was always a cuddler. Very happy, always smiling and would go to anyone. I wanted to make sure though he was bonding to me as his mother. I asked our agency’s child psychologist about this. Her recommendation was to hold him and rock him every night before bed while giving him a bottle. She said that it would go against a pediatrician’s recommendation to be on a bottle past one year but not to worry about it because they have different concerns. I did this until my son was two. I would rub his little body, touch his face, read to him, sing etc. . . He is four now. I can’t tell you what a difference it made. Bedtime is still our favorite mom/son time. He is four now. Unfortunately, he doesn’t like dad to put him to bed so I’m always on duty but I don’t mind. I too, didn’t know about any “rules”. I plan on doing the same thing with our daughter. I will also let family and friends hold her unless she resists. I think it is always different with each child. There is no one size fits all when it comes to child rearing.
On bonding and bio kids: I completely agree that it isn’t necessarily immediate. When we brought my older son home many years ago, I remember we laid him out on a blanket and we were just watching him. He’d move his little fingers or make a little smile and it was cute. But I remember very explicitly thinking that I didn’t feel connected to him and I really didn’t feel a huge gush of love like I thought I would. I felt guilty about it really and questioned internally whether or not I was the “motherly” type. He was a fairly easy baby but still we were tired all the time. Thing is, it didn’t last forever. After a short time I did feel connected to him.
Looking back on it now, I think I had some post partum depression. PPD is pretty well recognized now. I’ve read a little about people experiencing Post Adoption depression. I don’t believe that post-adoption depression is discussed enough. I guess its just assumed that after we’ve jumped through all these hoops to bring these babies home, we should just be happy about it. I often wonder when people write of a disconnected feeling if there isn’t some mild depression involved.
Toys to take: Stacking cups. If you can’t find them you can use plastic stacking measuring cups. One small stuffed animal. Our daughter didn’t care about the stuffed animal. Bubbles (packed in zip lock bag just in case). We also used her cereal bowl and spoon as a toy drum and she liked to play with the small flashlight we took. There are lots of things the baby can play with….you don’t need to take a lot of toys. Be creative and use what you’ve got around you as long as it is safe.
My sister sent my daughter a box of small gifts recently and Autumn enjoyed the bubble wrap and box it came in more than the toys. :)
Hi All,
These are such fun topics. We have 3 bio children and are adopting our 4th from China. I personally didn’t care for the diaper genie or diaper champ. They both started to smell after awhile no matter how many times I cleaned them with Lysol and bleach. I found that the produce bags at the grocery store worked best and then made sure the garbage went out every night. (Just my opinion)
The whole attachment and bonding topic/no holding subject is very interesting to me. I never wanted to share my bio children, so I don’t think I’ll want to share our new (hopefully soon coming) baby either. Perhaps this “flaw” in my personality will be good for our baby??!! I think I’ll probably let my mom hold our baby for a couple minutes the first time they see eachother, but I’ll probably hog her the rest of the time like I did with our others.
As for as quick meals…If you don’t have time to freeze your own and you have a Trader Joes around – stock up. On evenings when we have sports or other extra activities, these Trader Joes frozen meals come in handy. They also have some great non frozen things that make meals quick like simmer sauces so all you need are chicken breats etc.
As far as the whole Utah issue with multiple wives…Just remember China’s history and all the concubines. I don’t know if it would really faze them. (With all due respect) The human race has done some weird things through out history, this is really too bad though. I’m surprised they got through their home study. Perhpas their social worker needed to dig deeper???
>I believe
>that after being in China for 2 weeks, she will know who her Mommy >and Daddy are and if she is fine with others holding her then that >should be something that is not denied. I believe we should all do >what we can to form an inbreakable bond with our children,,this is >just my point.
Imagine your child you have right now. (If you have one – try to imagine if you don’t yet.) Imagine one day complete strangers take her away from everything she’s ever known, hand her off to people she has never seen before. Do you think that your child, after 2 weeks with the complete strangers (new parents), would “know” them as mother and father? Do you think your child might remember you, the original caretakers (parents) even after 2 weeks? How long do you think it would take them to forget you and start thinking of the new parents as permanent parents? Why or why not?
For those interested in the content of The Story of You Post… I can’t remember everything verbatim, so I will quote what I do and paraphrase the rest. There was a front page feature article in the Sunday Chicago Tribune this past weekend. It was about an area, I believe in Utah, called Eagle Mountain. It is a small community where polygamy has been practiced for many years. A family currently in China adopting a second child–an older child I assumed to be classified as special needs due to age–was confronted by another family member after seeing the article and knowing that’s where this particular family lived. After being “cornered on the carpet”, the parent (father) admitted to having “more family” and couldn’t wait to go home and reunite with everyone with their new child. He also stated he was “glad to be out.” He went on to say that in addition to being in China “to adopt this wonderful child”, he had also been asked by others in the community to “scout out a non-US location where they could all live.” He then went on to a normal post about his newly adopted daughter and the events of the day.
lost in despair, there’s a whole thread on the forum about babycarriers. The Ergo seems to have quite a fan club of btdt folk – that’s the one I’m going to get when it’s time.
Books – I love Deborah Gray’s Attaching in Adoption.
I also can recommend “Adoption Parenting: Creating a Toolbox, Building Connections” [Macrae and MacLeod, eds]. This one covers a huge range of topics with very practical strategies including attachment and early days right through to school learning issues and identity building. A good resource for the long haul!
I can’t believe that they would do that. I hope someone does find out from their agency while they are still in China. CCAA may not be as upset if they are found out before they leave with the child. Who was their social worker, unreal? I have seen shows on this town (Dateline, I think) and it is very scary. They often force 12&13 year olds to marry much older men. I can only imagine some little girl from China being placed in this situation. It makes me sick!
I’ve been so busy today that I never got to come back and see where this thread headed. We’re all over the place. I love it.
With an Oct LID, I’m starting to think about freezer meals now. That’s why I suggested it. I know that once I’m in that countdown, time will go faster than I think, or feel, it will.
What I’m starting to do is make double batches. For instance, this week I made a pan of baked pasta with turkey italian sausage. It was just as easy to double everything and make two pans. One pan gave us two dinners and a lunch. The other pan is wrapped in an aluminium pan with a lid and then wrapped in foil and tucked away in the freezer. I agree that soups freeze really well, too. I love the idea of a folder to store recipes. One for freezer foods and one for kid-friendly would be wonderful.
As for attachment, I’m going to be a first-time parent so I’m watching, reading, learning, and waiting.
Sherry in Vermont: I know that’s one reason our DD was so stiff with us at first. When we got her at her orphanage one of her caretakers stood outside the open window and cried. She and our DD were very distressed. (Although she also communicated to us that she was happy for our DD) The caretaker gestured to our DD to hold her so she could comfort her. Then she told DD that I was mommy and to be happy. Our agency guide then gently shooed her away. It was so sad…The pictures the orphange took with the camera we sent ahead shows her holding our DD in a lot of the photos. I think it will be special to our DD to see, and hopefully meet again someday, this young woman who loved her so much. I knew DD had to have time to grieve.
The diaper genie reeks once the kid eats food………diaper champ is better, but still needs to be emptied each nite……diaper champ uses kitchen trash bags instead of those stupid expensive refills……..stick a cat litter “stick up” type deodorizer in the bottom.
As far as toys……..baby was 10 mo. at adoption……….she loved the board books I bought with basic baby photos and I used those to show her new English words……….she also LOVED the baby photo album with daddy and sissy and aunty in it…………that would get her to quit screaming every time and I think helped her recognize them when we got home……..I also bought 2 of the same silky blankets…mailed one ahead to SWI and I am SURE she never got it……at any rate, I handed it to her when we met and each time I laid her in bed……….she HATES stuffed animals and was not a finger/thumb sucker, nor did she haul around a towel like a lot of the babies………..she did, however, like to rub out patches of her hair to self-soothe………each bedtime I would hand her the blanket and gently move hands from hair to blanket…….now that we are home blanket has helped her stop rubbing her hair out and helps her understand it is sleep time…whether that be in the playpen in my room or in crib in kids room…………I have 2 of the same so 1 can wash. I am very happy I hauled both along.
Do bring some American diapers….don’t bring wipes…they are fine there……even at French type WalMart store the diapers labelled Pampers were clearly NOT what we get here……….if you want to do bare minimum get Huggies overnights and use for long Consulate-type apts., touring and ESPECIALLY plane ride home!!!!! Those overnights cannot be overflowed!!
If it doesn’t work just google lilli nielson. She’s a therapist/educator who has a fantastic active play program designed specifically for children with visual and multiple impairments.
I’ve used her Little Room toy which is a sensory box the child can lie/sit in and discover all sorts of sensory play. The plywood resonance board already suggested is part of the program as well. Great stuff!
dunedin, wow, it was great to see your posts. Congrats!! Is your site still up? I wish the very best for you and welcome back to RQ!!!!
jfk lid-08-08-05 (submitted our Letter of Acceptance today..yea)
nah…………my site was HOPELESS in China so I just gave it up and started emailing people my kodak picture albums instead………….We are home and doing pretty well!
cmbj- not sure if this was mentioned, but I have seen those balls and toys that vibrate, they are great for touch and sound. I love them, I wish they made them for adults to relax with. Oh yeah, they do make pillows that vibarte, my grandma used to have one, feaked you out everytime you sat down. Modern day whoopie cushion:)
Any suggestions to a a website that works really well for photos, short movies and ablity to add. I have been looking at others, but I want to know if they are easy to use. Please let me know. my1girlcharlie@yahoo.com
cmbj….1st time poster….look for a piano type toy (there are several models out there—the more bells and whistles the better!!!) that attaches to the foot of the crib (great for kicking activity and auditory stim) that can also be played with on belly on floor with hands (this usually comes after foot action is mastered)…….I am a home care nurse to a deaf-blind treasure and for the first 18mos of his life his foot piano was THE BOMB!!!! (not to mention it helped him to gain strength to become the VERY active, physically adept 4yo that he is today)…….GOOD LUCK……
Thank you all BTDT’s for the information. I concur that a folder with the recipies, one for books, one for toys would be a great reference for all, but especially for us first timers.
I often stand in the baby aisle at Target and get completely overwhelmed because I don’t seem to know what I will need.
Ask me to buy stuff for someone elses child and I am full of useful information. Maybe because with newborn babies you know where you are starting. With our adopted children even after we have the referral information we don’t really know for sure the size of our children or where they are developmentally vs their age.
jbabes, this is very disturbing information about the family. Is there any chance you could have been mistaken or misread the posting (I’m guessing not since it was later edited)? I’m really just hoping that it is not true. I can’t understand how this could have happened (not once, but twice). I have to assume the adoption agency was unaware.
Kind of seems “Stepford-ish” – and reminds of the HBO show Big Love. The article says that Eagle Mountain is made of up of almost all Polygamists. It seems like a social worker in Utah would know this? I don’t know? I hope not. I wonder if the adoption will go through?
I do NOT understand the family in China ordeal. I felt my life was an open book to our SW and agency… (IF true) How would people like that get passed all the “investigative” stuff?
September 29th, 2006 at 8:44 am
How about recipes for meals you can make ahead and freeze so you don’t have to cook right away when you get home?
September 29th, 2006 at 8:49 am
Recipes are a great idea!
Also, I would love to talk about attachment. I don’t know what to do about the “no holding” rule. I want to have my baby feeling safe and secure, but I also know my family will be so hurt if they can’t hold her at all. I don’t want to play pass the baby, but I guess I feel like having my mom hold her for 5 minutes while I am right there shouldn’t hurt — or will it? I would love some opinions on this!
: ) wfp 8/24/05 NEXT!!!! :D
September 29th, 2006 at 8:49 am
When my students are silent, I say “lets talk about our feelings.”
September 29th, 2006 at 8:53 am
oh thats a good one – send on the recipes!!
. How about good parenting books …for toddlers, I liked Making the Terrible Twos Terrific. It’s a little too strict but good ideas to take from it.
Also, great reference book: How to Get Your Child to Love Reading. Pick a topic and she tells you twenty great books about it. Make pancakes for breakfast and she gives you 10-20 books where the characters aare making panacakes. I had great fun with this during the preschool years.
There are sooo many good ones. I’ll have to think.
September 29th, 2006 at 8:53 am
Oh, that’s a good one.
Spaghetti sauce, chili, homemade lasagna.
You might want to find some recipes for steamed egg and congee, too. Not that you’ll want to freeze them, just that you may discover one or both of these is a huge hit with your child while you are in China.
I had to play around with steamed eggs to get them right, and I have no idea what finally worked because I never wrote it down and I haven’t made them in years.
Congee is easy, you just cook rice until it has the consistency of oatmeal. Most little bitty kids seem to like bananas mashed into it.
September 29th, 2006 at 8:55 am
Attachment would be my choice. In some ways (don’t flame me) this wait has been a good thing for me because I have had more time to read and prepare myself to better care for our child. I am especially grateful for the link provided here by RQ to aforeverfamily.org. This is a great source of info on attachment. I’ve even sent my extended family over to it and they seem to better understand the issue of attachment. Please go and visit while you wait. It is definately worth it.
As far as recipes goes…I could use a few of those too :)
September 29th, 2006 at 8:55 am
waitingforpink – explore this site:
http://www.a4everfamily.org/index.php
You’ll find an article on there about why relatives should not hold the baby. Send the link to your mom. If she isn’t online then print it out for her.
September 29th, 2006 at 8:57 am
Waitingforpink,
I read somewhere that you really should not let anyone, who is not permanently living in your home hold your new baby until they have formed clear attachment bonds to you. I have heard that it is best to start telling family about the attachment issue and the NO holding for the first month or however long it takes so they are not stunned when you get home and say No holding. Also I have read that if you always keep your child in a form of carrier on your body that people/family are less likely to try to take and hold the baby from you. One family that went to china and home said this worked great they even took her to church in it so noone would even think to hold her. If their are any other suggestions I too would love to hear them. My mother is not going to do very well with this whole idea but I am going to do what is best for our little girl. I hope some of this helps.
Kathy
LID 2/17/06
September 29th, 2006 at 9:01 am
I have an idea. I recently stumbled into a conversation with some friends about the process of becoming a parent. It was interesting. I wonder if it would help our friends here who are first-timers to hear about what was most challenging about becoming a parent.
I wouldn’t want it to be one of those typical “scare the beejesus out of the newbies” threads, where people say how horrible it is, you never sleep again, never shower, etc. (Not that those aren’t sometimes true–ha ha!). Something a little more constructive and substantive than that. How about this:
Those of you with kids already, what was most challenging or surprising about the transition to parenthood?
Here’s my own answer: I’m a Type A all the way. I organize, I plan, I problem solve. I’m one of those people about whom other people say, “She’s really got it together.” (Not bragging here…I’ve got plenty of faults, believe me!) Throughout my pre-parent life, I was always able to attack a problem, figure out a solution, and implement it. I approached my first child the same way: “Why is he acting like that? What should I do to fix it/change it?” I recall talking about sleep issues with a good friend when my son was a newborn. She said, “Mary, sometimes there just aren’t answers.” That was a revelation to me! Two more kids later, and I’ve become better at understanding that my kids will be in different phases throughout their childhood, and I can’t always get to the bottom of everything. Even if I could, they’d move on to a new phase by the time I figured the last one out! I am MUCH better at going with the flow that I ever was pre-parent. And it has forced me to make some healthy decisions about what is important i.e. keeping my house spotless, etc.
Related to this is another challenge for me. Because I am such an “accomplisher” who really values tranquility and our days going smoothly, I sometimes forget that I need to put effort into nurturing my relationship with my husband, just as I put effort into taking care of my kids, keeping up with the laundry, helping the kids with homework, etc. Because my marriage isn’t really a tangible thing I can put on my “To Do” list, I sometimes take it for granted. I’m married to a wonderful man and incredible father. Our relationship is at the center of the family we have built together, and I need to treat it as central to everything. Life gets so busy that it’s easy to forget that sometimes. It doesn’t mean we have to make time to go out on dates or take weekends away. It might only mean that I ask him about his day and really listen, or tell him how much I appreciate everything he does for us (he is very appreciative of me too, btw), or give him a back rub while we watch tv (as long as he doesn’t assume it’s going to get him some action at bedtime–ha ha!). Being a mom is hard, but being a dad isn’t exactly a cake-walk either.
Well, I’ve rambled enough. RQ, I hope it’s okay that I started this. I’d like to hear what others say. You can always learn something.
September 29th, 2006 at 9:07 am
How about kid friendly recipes?
My daughter’s favorite food for a very long time was peas. She ate a small can of peas all by herself in one sitting about every other day. She would have eaten them every day if I had given them to her, but I just thought there should be other food, too. Her lunch usually consisted of a protein of some sort and a vegetable with maybe a few whole grain crackers and was followed by a fruit (usually two of the little cups of mandarin oranges, also a favorite).
One whole shelf of my cabinet stayed full of the small cans of veggies – lima beans and green beans and peas and corn and carrots (sliced horizontally so they weren’t a choking hazard) and I forget what else.
The snacks I kept (keep) on hand include fruit cups (mandarin oranges by themselves, peaches by themselves), individually wrapped colby/jack cheese in the thick little squares, raw carrots (now that she’s older, but not when she was younger as they are a choking hazard), apples, oranges, plums (with the pit removed), raisins (well, she hates them now but loved them when she was little), and (when she was little) the veggie wheels that are kind of like a cracker and are made to be a “first food”.
Grapes are a big no-no. As are hot dogs or anything shaped like a hot dog. Read up on the foods that are a choking hazard.
September 29th, 2006 at 9:16 am
waitingforpink, your post reallly hit the reality button for me. I am not a licensed expert. They say ‘no holding’ but they don’t say ‘no touching or talking sweet to them’. If you are standing there, why couldn’t your mom hold her for a few minutes or hold her with you together. IMO, go for it girl. Best wishes. jfk
September 29th, 2006 at 9:20 am
No holding rule? When we came back with our daughter in 1995, we were so exhausted because she had a nasty infection when we got her (we actually had to take her to a hospital in Guayang). I don’t believe we had been told about the no holding rule, and I’m sure we would not have followed it if we had. We were grateful that our family wanted to hold her and help take care of her during that time. We had been up with her almost 24/7 because she would not sleep with the infection and resulting fever. Emily would only calm down when someone, anyone, held her. It did not seem to affect her ability to bond with us at all, although I have to say that we lived 6 hours away from our families at the time, and so weekends were the only time she would have been around them.
September 29th, 2006 at 9:21 am
I put my daughter on the floor on a padded mat and invited people to get in the floor and play with her.
No holding doesn’t mean no playing.
And I was on the floor as well, and she was often sitting in my lap or leaning up against me while playing or interacting with other family members. I think this taught her that I was her “home base” that she could rely on while exploring relationships with other people.
September 29th, 2006 at 9:36 am
RQ-I love the idea of playing on the floor together. My mom has just finished her last chemo treatment, and the thought of telling her, she can’t hold her grandchild, is terribly upsetting to me. This is a great solution. See, this thread has already helped someone.
8/10/05
September 29th, 2006 at 9:40 am
Kitkat, that hip-carrier idea is a brilliant solution; I love it! I was worried about the hordes at work, and the whole neighborhood is waiting for her, too, as well as swarms of friends. I can see sitting on the couch right next to my mother, and slipping off the shoulderstrap, so Mom can cuddle with her, but she’ll still be kinda in the sling…
‘Course, now I’ll worry over which sling to buy. Which sling is comfortable for a shortish, plump, way-too-top-heavy Mamma, and a short, stocky Pappa? Both of whom are not nearly as athletic or energetic as they were in their 30’s? Votes? Opinions?
September 29th, 2006 at 9:42 am
For those of us first-timers who are waiting, what were the best 3 things that you bought for your baby before he/she arrived? what were the 3 things that you really didn’t need?
I want to buy more clothes, but have made myself stop (she already has 32 outifts in various sizes) because I don’t know what size/what season she will be here. I want to buy diapers, but based on what I am hearing about various sized behinds, it looks like that isn’t a good choice either. I am looking for stacking cups because two friends found that to be the toy of choice for their daughters. I have also been told that the collection of small stuffed animals might not go over so well since the babies don’t have toys in the SWI.
Any advice would be appreciated! : )
September 29th, 2006 at 9:45 am
My big fear with attachment is there will be something wrong and I will miss it. Disordered attachment, anxious attachment all the problems seem to contradict. If the child is clingy it could be anxious attachment. If the child isn’t clingy it could be disordered attachment. I am just so scared there will be a problem and I will miss it.It seems like the more I read about it the more scared I become.
The no hold rule is easy for us. The family that lives close isn’t supportive so I am pretty sure they will be happy for us to cocoon away for several weeks.
I know I can handle the no sleep thing. I know I can handle the illness thing. I know I can handle the feeding thing. But this attachment thing scares the pants off me.
Beth
4/19/06
September 29th, 2006 at 9:46 am
These are ALL great ideas!!! See, there IS plenty to talk about after all!!
His,
Mrs. U
http://www.makingahouseahome.blogspot.com
September 29th, 2006 at 10:00 am
Related to attachment and sleep issues: One of the biggest mistakes I made early on as a first-time parent was trying to take the advice of a well-meaning pediatrician who recommended a Ferber-type approach to getting my baby to sleep. The theory basically being that it’s a healthy part of a baby’s development for her/him to learn self-comforting techniques that empower her to fall asleep independently, without a parent’s constant presence. The problem is that while this may work well for a child who hasn’t had attachment interrupted, post-institutionalized children have already had way too much practice with self-comforting and need to learn the opposite of independence–that they can depend on a parent to meet their needs, whenever and wherever. So after enduring a night or two of scream-filled, anxiety-laden behavior during which my daughter not only couldn’t find comfort but had screaming fits of escalating anxiety and anger, I FINALLY wised up and threw out the book and just let her sleep with me within arm’s reach so I would always be there to comfort her any time she needed comfort. Yes, I had horrible sleep deprivation for awhile (my girl is a thrasher and tended to sleep with her knee in my spine), but eventually she was sleeping well enough that I only needed to start the night with her, and after about age 4 she could sleep comfortably on her own.
My main point: take child-rearing advice from those who haven’t parented post-institutionalized children with a grain of salt and jettison it immediately if your gut tells you it’s wrong for your particular child. I still regret the couple of nights I tried to “ferberize” my own tyke–my temporary sleep-deprived state was a small price to pay for building her emotional security in the final analysis.
Changing gears, here’s an easy recipe for the vegetarians in the group: Last night I made pasta with black (Italian) kale, and to my amazement my 7-year-old (who hates cooked spinach) loved the stuff. Just chop 1/2 lb. kale and parboil for 5 min., then saute in olive oil for another 5 with 2-3 cloves of chopped garlic. Use the water you cooked the kale in to cook 1/2 lb. whole wheat spaghetti. Once everything is cooked, toss it all together with about a cup of grated parmesan or romano cheese, with more cheese on top. Makes about 4 servings. I’ve seen similar recipes with crumbled bacon or sausage added, too.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:16 am
I love the advice about playing but not holding. I am already letting family know the rules. They are already OK with it. I know it will be hard but the playing on the floor is a perfect alternative.
I have a question about diet. What did you feed your child when you returned from China? I assume you had to change her diet slowly to keep up tummy happy. How long did it take to transition and what foods did you use?
September 29th, 2006 at 10:16 am
Hello everyone! First time poster, long time lurker. I love this thread and wanted to share a great attachment tool–infant massage. I am certified in infant massage instruction and highly reccomend the book–Infant Massage: A Handbook for Loving Parents by Vimala Schneider McClure. The benefits of infant massage and attachment are phenonemonal & I can’t say enough about it. Many of our little ones will not have gotten enough of the nurturing touches that they need and deserve. Massage is great way to connect & focus on their needs while promoting bonding & physical development. If you aren’t a book reader or if you are and want even more resources see if a local hospital has classes, check out the yellow pages or do a search engine on-line that will lead you to someone who teaches parents infant massage locally. Often libraries will have videos/dvds on infant massage.
Jenny
LID 8/26/05
September 29th, 2006 at 10:16 am
Does anyone know of any good attachment/bonding books?
Or how about just a good basic baby care info book? I mean, I babysat tons, but I need to read up on things. I will be a first time mom here, so I want some good info.
Thanks!!
September 29th, 2006 at 10:27 am
Also the advice about foods would be great – what do you feed them there and like an above poster asked, what foods are best back at home.
I know I sound completely lost to you moms out there, but I am just trying to prepare myself :) :) THANKS
September 29th, 2006 at 10:29 am
Waiting4mybaby, 3 baby things that worked for us:
1. Peg Perego “Prima Pappa” high chair. I initially balked at the cost (around $140 8 years ago), but this is a great adjustable chair that also folds easily so you can take it with you to have dinner at friends’ homes or wherever. Take off the tray and you have a great adjustable toddler/preschooler chair you can use at the table, too. I’ll get a replacement cushion and use it for #2 as well, so good value for the money.
2. Diaper genie. No explanation needed. ;o)
3. A wheeled walker thing that has toys on the front–the toddler can hold on to it while she/he is learning to walk, or sit on the floor and play with the doo-dads on the front.
wait4hannah, Deborah Grey’s “Attaching in Adoption” is a very helpful book.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Jenny, thanks for the book recommendation, great idea!
September 29th, 2006 at 10:37 am
More good baby/toddler foods (in addition to the congee, mashed banana, etc., listed above): mashed potatoes, mashed sweet potato, applesauce, bland-ish foods (vegetables, meats) you can smush up in the blender, yogurt (but watch out for milk allergies).
Re Gerber-type toddler foods, if you want to try the jarred stuff: My 15-month-old was weirded out by the texture of these at first–slimy compared to what she was used to, I guess. They can be convenient, though.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:37 am
I think my comments are moderated out, but I did want to say that infant massage is wonderful! I did it with one of my babies who had eczema and it became such a wonderful part of our evening. I will do it for sure again.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:39 am
I think the holding/no holding is a personal issue…and one related to how well the baby bonds while in China. We did it both ways….baby 1 no holding, baby 2 holding OK. Both girls are happy, healthy, well-attached children. Depends on the baby!
And I know I’m not alone when I say … diaper genie – ick! hated it! Some like it, some hate it.
On one yahoo board we’re talkin’ about food in China!
Steamed eggs…I think the key was 1/4 c. of water…both our girls loved them!
will this wait never end?
September 29th, 2006 at 10:40 am
Coartney,
I pray your mom lives many more years, and is able to enjoy watching your daughter grow up. But if I were you, I would let her hold your daughter as much and as often as it pleases her to do so. I would also ensure I took lots and lots of pictures of Grandma doing exactly that.
We have three little girls from China, and did not follow the “rule”. Two had been institutionalized and one had been in foster care. Each one bonded just fine. And each one had been warmly cuddled and hugged by aunts, uncles, grandparents and cousins – and loved every minute of it.
Certainly it is wise to not allow your child to go to any and everyone. But personally, I would make allowances where Grandma and Grandpa are concerned, given the fact that none of us know how long they will be with us. Later, your child will cherish the memories captured in the photographs.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:49 am
I guess we never knew there was a rule. We brought Lark home from China three years ago. I was careful about not just letting everybody swarm her, but aunts, uncles and grandparents were free to hold and cuddle!! Lark came into a family and I think there is merit to the idea that a child needs to bond to a family.
I carried her in a front pack most of the first year–this prevented the wonderful, caring ladies at church from parading her around (which would have freaked both Lark and me out!) But they could still play peekaboo with her and caress her tiny hands.
I wouldn’t stress this one–as far as I can see, no matter what your parenting strategy is, most of our little Chinese girls seems to thrive. First and foremost is love…always love.
Cheers
Liz in CO
September 29th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Like an earlier poster, I have always been a Type A personality. So I was very surprised to learn that when it comes to raising my daughter, I am not a Type A personality. My advice is relax and enjoy your child. Yes, some (not all) children are going to have problems attaching, some with sleeping, some with eating, etc. Deal with the real problems rather than over analyzing everything your child does. In other words, try not to “look†for problems that don’t exist. Don’t ignore signs that there are problems either, but if a book says that children should walk at 12 months and you child is 12 months and 1 week and not walking, it’s not necessarily a sign that there is a problem or that it’s an adoption related problem – some biological children don’t walk at a certain time either! Some children hit milestones early, others much later. Unless your doctor is worried, try and relax. Enjoy the moments you have with your children, they grow so fast and worry about the little things won’t make you or your child happier. You’ve all waited a long time for your children, enjoy them. Hug and kiss them often!
September 29th, 2006 at 10:55 am
Best ever toy – the Mozart Cube by Embryonics, each side of the cube is a different musical instrument, which plays by itself or with other sides when you press on them, about 6 different mozart compositions. it also lights up. My dd loved it ever since she was 6 months old, it is still her favorite toy at 18 months.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:08 am
Our little gal was 13 months when we first held her. She was already walking and talking and very opinionated. Holding her was like holding/hugging a board and she would push us away after a few seconds. She didn’t always want to be put down, but she was uncomfortable with the closeness. For the first week or so, pretty much all the touching she wanted from me was joining our pointer finger tips together (she was a little better with her dad). She would let me feed her but maintained a suspicious look towards both her dad and me. We could get her to laugh by being silly but she really didn’t smile for many weeks. She wasn’t shy and would walk up to anybody (we let her know that was unacceptable). She didn’t seem to care where we (her parents) were most of the time. She did not want to be held when she was sleepy and perfered to be tucked into bed and left to put herself to sleep. Of course we still insisted on a lap time for reading a story and singing her “love songs”.
So we followed out insticts and let her take it slow. We treated her with love and respect. Including repect for her personal space at times…which she really seemed to need. Simple as that. Don’t get me wrong, we’re a VERY affectionate family (she also has 3 teenage sib’s) and she got loved on a ton, but we were careful to “read her”. She turned 3 in August and she’s now the most empathetic and loving little girl. She wears a constant smile and just radiates a joy. And to MY great joy, she’s a real “mommy’s girl”. …. That’s my attachment story. :)
P.S. I love the massage suggestion. Our gal loved to have her back scratched and it really relaxed her and I think helped with the bonding.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:09 am
I think a different kind of book. One on health attachment versus “this is my baby don’t touch her†syndrome. LOL.
Seriously, my mom passed on several years ago and I don’t live anywhere near my family. All of DH’s family has babies—including DH from his first marriage. I am very much in the mode of, “This is my baby.†I know, I know not healthy. I am sure I will snap out of it at some point. My mother-in-law has attended some conferences designed for the extended families so she is well aware about the “no holding†rule. We have also discusses these issues with my step kids ages 10 and 8. They will be able to play with their new sister, but not hold her for awhile. DH will be lucky if he gets to hold her.
I know, I know . . .
Recipes for you can freeze for when you get back. The suggestions sound pretty good so far. Really, you can cook just about any kind meat (except seafood) and then freeze it for a quick thaw, re-heat and eat meal later on for up to about 2 months before it will get that freezer-taste.
I have bought a few books for our daughter, some stuffed toys and a couple rag dolls with Asian faces, and some decorations for her room. We also a few outfits that people have given us—I’m holding off on the clothes until the referral. We are still working on the nursery. I am going to work on it this weekend. Still painting. I hope to finish the painting over Columbus Day weekend. Then DH gets to sand and refinish the floor. Once all that is done we will buy a crib etc.
I am also a type A personality, but honestly. I don’t care about the house being clean, having everything planned to a “tâ€, the sleep schedule, etc. I just want my referral!! I just want to be a mom. When did it get so freaking difficult?
Anything to keep busy, busy, busy, so I don’t get totally depressed with this god-awful wait!!!
September 29th, 2006 at 11:12 am
I just re-read my post, what the heck is wrong with my spelling and grammar check???
September 29th, 2006 at 11:16 am
The holding thing isn’t really a RULE, it’s more of a suggestion, and it soooo depends on the child. My daughter was (and is) a complete social butterfly. She practically leaped into my dad’s arms when we got off the plane. She went to everyone with open arms and a smile, but would occasionally hold out her little arms and say “Mamaâ€. Really, I had told everyone “no holdingâ€, but in our case, she was fine with it. Good thing, too, because I came home with bronchitis and a sinus infection and spent our second night home unable to even function. My parents were staying with me (they had been dog sitting) so my mom took care of my daughter for about 12 hours until the antibiotics kicked in. She would bring her in to play with me, but for the most part, Mom did all the care giving. My daughter survived. She is thoroughly attached to me, and is crazy about “Gammaâ€. Do what works for you, and don’t worry too much. You’ll know what your child needs.
Oh, and Diaper Genie – stinko!!!!!!!! Diaper Champ rules!
September 29th, 2006 at 11:25 am
We were well into the adoption process (9 years ago) before we ever heard the words “attachment disorder”. Wow, was that an eye-opening meeting! The best thing we did was read, and re-read the book “Toddler Adoption, the Weavers Craft” by Mary Hopkins-Best. Even if you are planning on adopting an infant, this book is a must read! It does talk about limiting holding by others and gives advise on how to explain the reasons for this. Our daughter was 3 when we got her and our, then, 7 month old son from Russia. (BTW, they are Asian, so we look forward to them having a neice that “looks like them”). Having the knowledge learned from this book saved us some real dissapointment and concern when our 3-yr. old started to reject us on the trip home. We knew it was her way of protecting herself from falling in love with someone that might leave her as previous care-givers had done. (She had been moved from one orphanage to another, as she reached certain ages.) As for the sleeping arrangements once at home, we put both of them in the same small room, next to our bedroom. As long as they were both there, she was fine, but she didn’t want to go to bed without her brother in the room. He, on the other hand was a cuddler from the first moment we met him…he is still our little charmer. When the young nanny brought him to us, she “flew” him through the air, a game she knew he liked. When she handed him to me, (this tiny little guy weighed only 11 pounds at 7 months old) he was laughing out loud…a real belly laugh. It is the most precious memory in the world! Our daughter soon came around to letting herself be comfortable with us, too. But it did take more work and time. She has become a well adjusted 12 year old (today is her birthday!) and a very loved member of our family. But I cannot stress enough…read the book!
September 29th, 2006 at 11:26 am
I’m fascinated by “the rule” about no holding. I tend to agree with some of the other posts that holding by Grandma and Grandpa and other relatives is fine. I mean, I wouldn’t allow them to take them over to the point of confusion but it seems that we do want our daughter to bond with her family members. Certainly brothers and sisters are going to be holding and playing with the baby, I’m not really understanding the difference here. It seems to me that the few minutes of love by family member then return to Mommy and Daddy actually reinforces who the parents are and would lead to attachment.
Dh and I both work full time so that means we have no choice but to use day care. Certainly the day care provider will be holding our daughter and caring for her. I have to believe that my child will understand through all of our actions that she is our daughter. Other temporary caretakers come and go but we are forever. Day after day, year after year, she’s not getting rid of us LOL!
Now, as far as going off with strangers, I think that one is good to avoid for all babies, bio and adopted. Most babies, newborns and older ones, don’t like being taken away from their parents by strangers. I think if I had an adopted (or bio for that matter) child who didn’t seem to care, that might indicate some attachment issues that need to be addressed.
Having expressed these opinions I reserve the right to completely change my opinions after we bring our daughter home. I have two bio children and I know that many of my pre-parent beliefs and opinions have changed as a result of over 18 years of parenting. I’m sure I’m in for more changes. That’s why I am careful not to discount the BTDT folks, I read and think and hopefully will apply this knowledge to my own parenting in a way that works for our family.
Last thought: I often feel concerned when I read about how strictly some people feel about enforcing the no holding rule. I think its fine if that’s your parenting plan, it works for you and you are comfortable with it. But, for some parents (especially first timers although not necessarily) who have suddenly become the parents of an older, confused, grieving child with his or her own issues, I wonder if it leads to even more stress. Some people are just exhausted and I’m sure feel like they need some help. I hope that no one ever feels like they can’t ask for it or accept it without feeling guilty that they’re not following “the rule” and messing their kid up for life.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:33 am
LostInDespair, sorry I meant to include a website in my original post that is a great resource for those trying to figure out which “baby wearing” carrier to use. The site is http://www.thebabywearer.com . It has articles, information, and resources designed for all of us baby wearers out there.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:36 am
This is long because there are so many great topics!
What to buy and what to pass on:
Three best things we purchased for baby (sorry if these are obvious): car seat, diaper genie, back pack style diaper bag (Land’s End I think) Things we didn’t need: I had a lot of various diaper rash creams and orajel teething type products. We didn’t use any of them. Our daughter was 9 months when we got home and didn’t have any problems with diaper rash or teething. Also the fancy bottles/nipples were a waste. She prefered the cheapy type and I bought way too many. I think 6 is enough. We also rarely used the rather pricey changing table/dresser. We ended up using the counter top in our master bathroom 95% of the time.
Food (baby):
In China she would eat noodles, soft bread or crackers, soups, fruit, lots of cheerios, etc. She wasn’t too fond of the congee even if we put a little sugar in it. I think most hotels have a buffett sytle restaurant. This is great as you can bring her various things to try to see what she likes. Home; same stuff…we did use some baby food for a while but she really prefered regular table food. We’d just cut or smash it a bit. She LOVED green beans and peas and pasta of any kind. Apple Sauce and cream of wheat were popular too. We had to try various formulas for a while. That was the only thing she was picky about. She still loves Ramen noodles which are a cheap quick meal. I don’t put the entire seasoning packet in because it is too much sodium and I add frozen peas and carrots to it so it has a little nutritional value.
Food (post trip):
Before you leave you won’t be in any mood or have time to prepare frozen meals for when you get back. So don’t wait until the last minute to do this. If you forget there are a lot of good frozen family style meals you can purchase these days. Or this is a great way to let friends/family help you out…don’t be afraid to ask for help.
Attachement:
We did let others hold her but kept it brief. We don’t have family close by so it wasn’t a big issue. My family did come in a few weeks after we were home and I had prepd them so they would just hold her for a while. To me the thing you need to be firm on is that the baby knows that the Mommy and Daddy are the ONLY ones that will meet her comfort needs. So don’t let other’s feed her, change her, hold her when she is crying, get her in the middle of the night, etc.
We have a jacuzzi tub in our bathroom so we would spend a LOT of time with her in the bathtub. I think the skin on skin contact and just being in the comforting warm water in a small space close to Mommy or Daddy was very bonding.
Parenting:
The thing that I finally learned was that sometimes when she is crying it isn’t something that I can fix. She is likely grieving and all I can do is hold her and let her know I am there and feeling sad with her. I used to get so frustrated and feel like a failure when I couldn’t get her to stop crying. I thought that was my job….make her stop crying. My job is to let her feel what ever she feels and let her know that that is OK and that her Mommy is with her and loving her forever.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:36 am
Wow! I just realized how much I wrote. Sorry guys. hahaha
September 29th, 2006 at 11:40 am
Love this thread!
I am going to follow suggestions and not take many toys or stuffed animals to China, but I have found just a couple that I think (hope) will be great. One is by Lamaze and it’s a soft toy that has different sounds and textures to it depending on where you touch it. It’s small and soft (easy to stuff in a suitcase) but hopefully a good developmental toy. The other is a soft book with similar features -sounds and textures. Any other suggestions? Oh, PLEASE, where do you find stacking cups? No luck there yet. LID 9/29
September 29th, 2006 at 11:48 am
Waiting4emily, you can find stacking cups just about anywhere Wal-mart, Target, BabiesRUs, Buy Buy Baby, etc. Often they are located with the bath toys because they are designed for water play, too. They are a great thing to take because not only do they stack but they also nest inside each other so they take up very little room. Happy Shopping!
September 29th, 2006 at 11:48 am
Waiting4myBaby-
You indicated you might be intereseted in buying diapers. We wanted to do that also, but were unsure of size and brand. So each pay day. We went to Wal-Mart and bought a $20.00 gift card and keep them stored for diapers. This way we could buy them as we needed and the expense wasn’t such and added shock.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:59 am
RQ-Can we maybe start a recipe folder so we can add our recipes? I would be more than happy to share some of mine!
September 29th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
My thoughts about parenting, as a Mother to 5, are all summed up in a quote by Maya Angelou. She said that every time your child comes into your view, let him or her see your delight! Isn’t that wonderful?
Also, from one of my daughters, who is a wonderful mom, I learned to realize when a child’s behaviors seem to ‘deserve love and positive attention ‘the least….is when they need that love the most.
My other strong suggestion is to both new Mom’s and new Dad’s: trust YOUR instincts, and not always be swayed by the
‘advice’ from others…..except my advice , in this case!! (giggle)
You guys are amazing. tgthread, would you consider running for Pres.?
September 29th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
I just love RQ and the very interesting discussions. I would like to say that when two of our friends came home with their babies…we couldnt wait to love on them!! How disappointing it would have been not to be able to hold them. If they( the presious babies), showed any sign of not wanting to be held by a stranger then we would have not pursued. We wanted to hold and kiss and share our love and they enjoyed being held and the attention. When we bring our Lily home, I want her to know that their of wonderful people who love her and want to hold her and show her the much deserved attention. If she resists, then fine but I believe that after being in China for 2 weeks, she will know who her Mommy and Daddy are and if she is fine with others holding her then that should be something that is not denied. I believe we should all do what we can to form an inbreakable bond with our children,,this is just my point.
September 29th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Here’s a new topic… I like to follow the follow the posts on The Story of You website. This morning, a family posts with the intent to “set the story straight”. There was an article in the Sunday Chicago Tribune this past weekend about polygamy in, I believe, Utah. It was the front page feature. So, in the wake of the article, and being confronted about being from the mentioned area, they felt the need to “come clean” about their family(s) and their lifestyle. So, here they are in China adopting not the first, but a second child, and all of this is being revealed–in a very public forum. Then they go on to discuss the most recent antics of their child and the remainder of the trip. I’m curious as to what everyone else may make of all this. I’m curious as to what China may make of all this. I’m hoping that the adoption I just started is going to happen as I think if China ever needed a reason to shut everything down, this is it!
September 29th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
waiting4emily: affordable stacking cups can be found at Toys R Us and/or Babies R Us. You can also spend big bucks and get them through Discovery Toys.
Our travel dates are Nov. 1 -18, so as you can imagine, I’m in the middle of deciding what to take/what not to take, toy-wise. I’ve heard too many people say that stuffed animals aren’t a hit, so I’m leaning towards baby Duplo blocks (the rounded, chunky ones, not those with the right angles, for building/stacking and also some that have little rattles in them), a few balls of various sizes/textures (balls are her favorite toy), a beach ball, some board books with lots of pictures, rattles and, of course, the ubiquitous stacking cups. Oh and textured links (I loved having the links when my boys were little, you can use them to attach almost anything to the stroller so things don’t get lost!)
Hope this helps.
September 29th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
I tried to post a while ago, so I’m assuming it’s “out there” somewhere and lost. So I’ll try this again.
We were well into our adoption paperchase 9 years ago, before we ever heard the words “attachment disorder”. Wow. that was an eye-opening meeting! The very best advise I can give is to read Mary Hopkins-Best’s book “Toddler Adoption, the Weaver’s Craft”. Even if you are planning on adopting an infant, it’s a wealth of knowledge researched and written by a child psycholigist and adoptive parent. It covers many of the issues you have talked about above including holding (or limiting that). The one thing that we used a great deal with our 3 yr. old for some time after we first got her was to insist upon making and holding eye contact. That seemed to be difficult for her, and that is a red flag in attachment. The book which we read, and re-read gave us the confidence and assurance we needed to recognize the “signs” of issues early on in our aquaintnce with our daughter. She started to reject us about the time we started our trip home from Ulan-Ude in Russia. This would have been heart breaking if we didn’t know that she was trying to protect herself from falling in love with another person that may be taken away from her. She had been moved from one orphanage (and caregiver) to another as she passed each birthday. Our son, on the other hand, was a tiny (11 pounds) almost 8 month old, and was a people person from the word “GO”. When the young nanny brought him to us, she “flew” him through the air, a game she knew he loved, and handed him to me. He was laughing out loud with the cutest belly laugh I have ever heard! What a precious memory! BTW, our kids are of Asian heritage, so we are looking forward to them having a neice that will “look like them”. Our kids are doing great. Our daughter has grown into a well adjusted 12 yr. old (Today is her birthday!) and our son is everyone’s favorite playmate at school. We can’t imagine our lives without them. But we are really, REALLY ready for our next grandchild to arrive from China! But, please, read the book!
September 29th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Hi tigerlily,
I very much appreciate what you said – in fact, if you refer to my previous post you’ll see I advocate that family members be permitted to hold and cuddle the baby. But if it’s ok with you, I’d just like to clarify that for some it’s not about the child “resisting”, it’s more about the fact that they likely won’t. This because they are so used to going to “whomever”.
That’s why there’s a whole school of thought out there which recommends not allowing the child to be held by others for the first while. The premise is that it will help the child to begin to understand that mommy and daddy will meet all of their needs. This in order to help them attach and bond.
But again, while I absolutely understand this school of thought – and certainly see the validity of it – I’m also of the opinion that it is important for our newly adopted children to bond with grandparents, siblings, etc. Certainly I would limit the contact to a degree, but would not shut it off altogether in those first weeks, and perhaps months, at home.
Like you, I have friends (and family) who’ve adopted from China, and I just have to tell you – I cannot wait to get my hands on their little muffins. But I also realize they come to me readily because they have not yet formed a strong attachment to mom and dad. How glad it makes me when I eventually find they prefer to not come to me or anyone else.
Of course, you probably already know everything I’ve just said :-)
September 29th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Thank you DebbyY…I have never adopted before.. I have two bio children. I know that all children are not the same and for every child that bonds quickly, there will also be children that have a difficult time in bonding. I want to make sure that our baby know who Mommy and Daddy are and that this bond will be a complete bond. I also agree that I should limit the contact with other to a degree. I would never want to confuse her or delay our attactment with her. Thanks so much….One more reason why I love the RQ site!!
September 29th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
This will be my first child so all my information and resources come from my best friend – she has three children and their daughter was adopted from Russia. She was kind enough to get me a subscription for Parenting magazine. Being a first time parent and single, I am studying as much as I can – however, some of the articles made me panic. They always have a section on choking – or severe allergic reactions – some thing that though I am well aware of that these can happen, spring fear into the heart of me! The ever present thought of…”what if I do something and she gets hurt because I did not know something in advance” takes over… So, in the midst of this worry, I called her and she suggested the book “Feed me I’m Yours”. It is GREAT! It goes through baby food, finger food and toddler food – offers recipes, crafts and birthday party suggestions. There are also tips throughout on foods to be aware of like honey and peanut butter. Eased that one fear for me.
I love the book suggestions – I am a big book fan! I have a book on baby sign language and will get one on baby massage now!!
Now about these steamed eggs…can someone do a step by step on how you do this and what the end results should be? I think I can do the congee – I am thinking that takes extra water than on the box – correct?
Thanks all! Have a great day!
Beck
September 29th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
~Tigerlily – we have two bio children as well! Plus our 3 darlings from China – with another to join us (sooner, rather than later, we hope!).
I don’t know how old your children are, but ours are 19 and 16. They were 10 and 13 when we first started on this wonderful journey of adoption. They absolutely dote on the little ones. And the little ones just love big brother and sister soooo much!
No doubt yours dote on the wee one (s?) as well :-D .
Debbie
LID Dec. 12/05
September 29th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
jbabes,
I tried to find the post on story of you, but couldn’t find it, do you have a link?
Thanks,
Rachel
September 29th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
OOPS! Tigerlily, that last line should have read, “No doubt yours WILL dote on the wee one(s?) as well.
All the best,
Debbie
September 29th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
RQ,
But….but…but….there ARE rumors! There are like agencies, including mine, that have told us to be on the lookout for SN TA’s. And all of these agencies have packets on the way from China, arriving Monday.
Mary
September 29th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
I really like this thread, b/c it gives us all something valuable to do while waiting. As a mom to 3 kids, I can relate to all the topics here. The biggest surprise that I had when I became a parent was how vulnerable you feel. You read in magazines and books about everything from choking to abductions to autism, and you feel paralyzed with fear sometimes that something bad is going to happen to your kid. Or, you read all about everything that you are supposed to do as a parent, then realize you haven’t done any of the things that are advised and you’re convinced that your child will end up hating you or at least in therapy;-) No matter if you have one child, or twelve, you are still vulnerable as a parent. It is likely that, at some point, you will find yourself in an ER in the middle of the night with a child, or at the losing end of a power struggle with your teenager. I have been a parent for seven years now, and there are still some days I wonder what the heck I am doing and if I am doing it even halfway right!
The other thing that I have learned from being a parent is that rules are not rigid, but should be used as guidelines. Follow your heart; listen to your gut; and make the decision that seems right for you and your child. We got flack from people for letting our oldest two co-sleep with us when they were babies (the youngest did not want to); we also got flack for giving our kids a pacifier. After a while, we finally realized that we would politely say, “thanks for the advice,” and continue to parent the way that we felt was best for us and our family.
All of that said, I am still anxious about bringing a new child into our home, creating positive attachment bonds with her, and meeting all of her needs. This is new to me, as our other three kids are biological and we have had them since day one. I know that there will be difficult days when I wonder what to do, but I am confident that this child is supposed to be in our family for a reason, just like her brothers and sister. We are going to love her with all of our hearts, and just make up the rest as we go along! :-) Good luck to everyone!!!
September 29th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
That was supposed to say…there are like 7 agencies, including mine telling us to expect TA on Monday. We have a tracking number for DHL and everything.
Mary
September 29th, 2006 at 1:07 pm
Thanks for the attachment site RQ…hope they have info for toddlers, as our daughter had her 2nd birthday yesterday! I have the attachment book recommended and am going to read it again. Trying to decide what we need to bring for her when we go to China in November. Anybody that adopted an older toddler feel free to give me some advice!
September 29th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
Cloth diapers – we didn’t use them the way they were meant to be used, but they are so fantastically absorbent for drool, spills and any other mess a baby (or a parent) can make. We went through several of them in a day. Ivory soap for laundry. Never thought about how sensitive baby’s skin can be. And my sister’s tip was, “Babies don’t fall off floors.”
September 29th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
Oneblessedfamily,
There are TA’s coming that is wonderful are you waiting for one? I pray we receive a SN referral in the next batch that comes into our agency b/c that would be fabulous!! Congrats if you are getting a TA!!
Kathy
September 29th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
The post on The Story of You has since been edited for content. So, nevermind… (I’m still kind of in shock about reading it though…)
September 29th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Much is being said about our babies being attached to us but what about concerns about attaching to the baby? Anyone read/have any good advice about that? I think some people may have unrealistic expectations about falling instantly in love with their new child and if that doesn’t happen they feel guilty. Any thoughts?
September 29th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Here in the NY/NJ area much of us are routing for a Subway World Series between my much beloved Yankees and that other team from Queens. Anyone out there want to talk about who they think will be in the World Series? The Twins pitching and passion has me concerned in the AL and of course if our friend A-Rod can be clutch down the playoff stretch is another question. Thoughts?
September 29th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
jbabes Says:
I too tried to find the post and see that it is now gone. So, what did it say?
September 29th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Easy Congee
————
1.5 cups raw rice
4 quarts boiling water (16 cups)
2 teaspoons oil
1 tablespoon salt
ginger–3 large pieces
green onions
chicken or turkey carcass/bones
Boil water. Mix rice and salt with oil. Add to boiling water.
Cover.
After 2 hours (yes, 2 hours) add bones and ginger.
Simmer 1.5-2 hours (do not overboil/ boil it dry)
Remove bones (use slotted spoon)
Serve with green onions, soy sauce, and chicken meat.
September 29th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
Chicken Porridge
(Congee)
Ingredients:
2 chicken breasts (boneless and skinless)
250 gr (8 oz) long grain rice
4 slices of fresh ginger
a few drops of sesame oil
a few drops of light soy sauce
1 tablespoon of chopped coriander
2 spring onions, chopped
Method:
1) Simmer the chicken breasts for about 15 minutes in a pan of boiling
water. Remove the breasts but save the water in the pan. This is now
the chicken stock
2) Rinse the rice under cold running water. Place 1 litre (1.75 pints)
of the chicken stock into a pan and add the rice and ginger. Bring the pan
to the boil then lower the heat. Simmer without a lid for about 1.5 hours
or until the rice is very soft. Keep the heat low so that the porridge
does not boil over, and stir often so that it does not stick. If it becomes
too thick to stir, add more of the chicken stock to the pan.
3) While the porridge is cooking, chop the cooked chicken breasts and
place to one side.
4) When it is ready the porridge should be thick and creamy
5) Place the porridge in a serving bowl. Drizzle it with sesame oil and
and soy sauce and stir. Top with the chicken and add salt. Garnish with
coriander and spring onion
September 29th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
sodergal, there is a fabulous book dealing with exactly that issue. It is called Secret Thoughts of an Adoptive Mother by Jana Wolf. I think its a beautiful, frank must read. You made a great point.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
I make Congee all the time accidently. All you do is add too much water and cook it too long.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
wunone:
now that pedro’s out i think the mets might not make it to the series, as much as i despise pedro (since the zimmer incident) & we are huge yankee fans, i kind of wanted to see the mets get in, willie randolph rocks
September 29th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
wunone16, The Minnesota Twins are really on a roll right now. They look like a team on a mission. I’m betting they’ll be in the series.
Go Twins!! :)
September 29th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
I’m a first time poster, and this discussion is just too fun to pass up on.
I purchased Parents Magazine Buckets of Buckets for my now five-year-old for his first birthday. He and my 7 and 8 year olds still play with them all the time. They are like jumbo stacking cups, so they may not be practical for taking to China. At home though, they have so many uses. The largest one has a handle, and the others nest inside. They’re great in the bathtub, in the yard, in the living room, and almost anywhere else. I bought mine at Target, but our store doesn’t carry them anymore. I did an internet search and found out they are still available. I’ll definitely be buying another set for dd. The ones we have are pretty worn.
We went the Ferber route with our boys on recommendation from our pediatrician, but our daughter’s room contains a crib for her and a twin bed for dh or myself if needed. If she wants or needs us to be present at bedtime, we’ll be there. If not, the bed is there for her when she is ready for a big girl bed.
As for preparing meals in advance, soups also freeze well. We eat a lot of soup at our house with homemade bread (bread machine).
I too am interested in hearing about different Mamma’s preferences for slings, etc. There have so many great suggestions so far. Please keep them coming!
Wendy M.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
In the attachment thing- we have been home since April- and it is amazing how the bond grows- even when you think you are already bonded. We just hit 6 months and it is a wonderful journey.
As for the holding thing- my mom was going to try for the no holding rule- but as soon as we were off the plane she just couldn’t contain herself. And once she did my Dad and sister held her too. It seems to have been fine. We did, and still do have Langley sleeping in our bed, which works for us and I believe adied a bunch in our bonding (plus the fact she was scared of her crib).
Food- she loves, loves, loves fruit- cantalope, watermelon, apples, bananas, grapes (cut into litttle peices). She would eat yogurt and cantalope only if we would let her.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
Can we get a folder for these recipes???My printer is off doing something I know not what but it isn’t printing. And I’ll never find these when I come home. This is GREAT!
Also ditto on the steamed eggs…a layman’s step by step guide PLEASE!!!
September 29th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
GrammaG:
I read Weaver’s Craft as well, however, readers of this book must keep in mind that in many instances, these are worse case scenarios that are presented. It is impt to be informed but trust your instincts above all.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Sweetie; I know what you mean about looking back and realizing what a journey the bonding and getting to know each other is. At our one year aniversary we looked back to see how far we had all come, when like you, we thought we were already there months before. It’s like watching a rose bloom….It’s beautiful.
September 29th, 2006 at 3:17 pm
Baby toys — This maybe somewhat OT, but I thought there might be someone with some knowledge or experience who could suggest a baby toy for a one year old with a disease that keeps her from sitting up and moving around without assistance (her vision is impaired, but her hearing is still good). I’ve seen several of the colorful soft toys at her house. Thought something similar that played music also with maybe soft pieces (like animals) that can be taken out and shown to her. I’m sure there are lots out there but you know how it is, when you start looking for something specific you can’t find it. Thanks for any help.
September 29th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Someone asked about the parent bonding with the child. The bond for me was not instant, but I didn’t worry because I knew it would happen and it did. When i was handed my daughter I thought she was beautiful and I wouldn’t have traded her for another baby. But she did not feel like “my” child yet. Soon after we got home, I had a huge medical scare with my daughter – she tested positive for HIV. I freaked out and cried for myself and for her (I’m a single mom, so it was just the two of us). That night she was in bed and I went in to check on her and that was the moment it hit me – I was so bonded to this beautiful girl. I knew she was completely my daughter and I would do anything for her. 3 days later a hurricane hit South Florida where I was living and I lost power for 9 days plus all communication with the doctor and the specialist I was supposed to be seeing. 9 days without power and no where to go forced 24 hour togetherness and bonding and it was great for our relationship! After I finally got in to see the specialist and 5 weeks later, I finally got DNA tests back to show that she was not HIV positive. I will never know if the original test was just a lab error or if her biological mother was HIV positive and my daughter just carried the antibody (which may have been eliminated from her system by the time she had the more sophisicated DNA test). The doctor seems to think it was lab error. My point is, don’t worry if the bond isn’t there instantly (it isn’t always there instantly with bio children either). It will come (hopefully under much less stressful and dramatic circumstances that what happened with us!)
September 29th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
This is my first post, yeah! I just wanted to give some advice to anyone interested in making freezer meals. If you make meals be sure and put a label on everything. The label should tell what the freezer item is, the date that it was made, and cooking instructions. This gives you all the info right at your fingertips. I do a lot of freezer cooking and trust me when I say that everything starts to look alike when it is frozen!
September 29th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Regarding the attachment thread … I was one of those people who thought I could not say no to family when they all wanted to hold my son. I watched as he was passed around. I felt like it beyond my control. It took us a long time to bond. I’m not sure if it was because I let others hold him. Our son initially bonded to his dad and then to me. I would say it took about 2-3 years for the bond to fully form and it was hard on all of us. This time I will do things differently …
http://createdinchina.blogspot.com/
September 29th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
cmbj,
I used to work with children and adults with developmental delays. One young man I worked with was completely blind and had severe physical disabilities and developmental delays. One thing he enjoyed exploring was a Koosh ball (I’m not sure how to spell it.) It’s hard to describe–soft rubber pom-pom in multiple colours is the best I can do. Another thing we used to do was upturn a tambourine, put some smallish, multi-textured, multi-sounded toys in it, and then put in an electric razor (with the blade removed). This would make everything vibrate, and he was much more interested in exploring the textures and sounds. (The Vision Itinerant teacher suggested that we use a vibrator because it was easy to hold, but no one at my work place had one…or would admit to having one, lol).
I don’t know the degree of disability this child has, but another thing I learned about at a workshop about working with children with vision impairment and multiple disabilities was something called a resonance board. It is a rather thin piece of wood with about a quarter inch ridge all around it. You put it on the floor, place yourself and the child lying on the resonance board and drop toys like balls and marble on it. If made properly, the resonance boards can stimulate play.
Don’t know if these ideas are too extreme for the needs of the child you are shopping for.
September 29th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Hi everyone,
First chance to check back since my post this morning (work, the nerve of it!). I want to apologize if I created problems with my wording of the holding “rule”. I have visited the attachment sites and I totally understand the importance of attachment. I want to do whatever is best for my daughter. However, I also want my family to be able to feel a part of all this. I liked the playing on the floor suggestion, as well as the holding her with me right there.
For what its worth, I am getting the hip panda for baby wearing. Also, I defn. will be the only one (or my dh) to change or feed her. Since I will be staying home with her, I hope that she attaches quickly. I want to do all I can to help that .
I am planning to go to Let’s Dish and make dinners to freeze. Check it out if you haven’t been — its wonderful.
This is fun, and some really good advice. I am ready for rumors tho!
: ) wfp 8/24/05
September 29th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
CMBJ———-I am a special ed teacher and work with nonambulatory, visually impaired kids………..not many people know this, but Toys R Us puts out a special catalog…….call and ask…….it has all their regular toys and has little symbols specifying which ones are good for kids with vision probs or hearing probs, etc………..anything that is musical that is sort of cause/effect would be good for a child with the issues you’ve described……good luck!
September 29th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
As far as attachment goes, I imagine each kid is totally different………we had some real social butterflies in our group and if you read about it that is supposed to be a sign of problematic attachment………my baby took right to me…….pass the baby? not a chance……….being a 2nd time mom, I would be ok with people holding her (family at least) but she’s not having it…………..she CLEARLY knows who is supposed to give the bottle……….mommy, mommy, and only mommy……….poor daddy……..she’d rather starve than take the bottle from him………..but we’re trying when she is calm………he can hold her…….unless mommy walks by! She loves sis and is sleeping in sis’s room with her like a champ………..she would sleep 20 min………cry for 10 all nite when she was in with us………..just testing me to see if I’d keep coming………….it was hard, but I did. This has been a much different experience than bio.
September 29th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
First time poster here. I wanted to add our attachment experience with our son adopted from Russia at eight months. He was always a cuddler. Very happy, always smiling and would go to anyone. I wanted to make sure though he was bonding to me as his mother. I asked our agency’s child psychologist about this. Her recommendation was to hold him and rock him every night before bed while giving him a bottle. She said that it would go against a pediatrician’s recommendation to be on a bottle past one year but not to worry about it because they have different concerns. I did this until my son was two. I would rub his little body, touch his face, read to him, sing etc. . . He is four now. I can’t tell you what a difference it made. Bedtime is still our favorite mom/son time. He is four now. Unfortunately, he doesn’t like dad to put him to bed so I’m always on duty but I don’t mind. I too, didn’t know about any “rules”. I plan on doing the same thing with our daughter. I will also let family and friends hold her unless she resists. I think it is always different with each child. There is no one size fits all when it comes to child rearing.
September 29th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
On bonding and bio kids: I completely agree that it isn’t necessarily immediate. When we brought my older son home many years ago, I remember we laid him out on a blanket and we were just watching him. He’d move his little fingers or make a little smile and it was cute. But I remember very explicitly thinking that I didn’t feel connected to him and I really didn’t feel a huge gush of love like I thought I would. I felt guilty about it really and questioned internally whether or not I was the “motherly” type. He was a fairly easy baby but still we were tired all the time. Thing is, it didn’t last forever. After a short time I did feel connected to him.
Looking back on it now, I think I had some post partum depression. PPD is pretty well recognized now. I’ve read a little about people experiencing Post Adoption depression. I don’t believe that post-adoption depression is discussed enough. I guess its just assumed that after we’ve jumped through all these hoops to bring these babies home, we should just be happy about it. I often wonder when people write of a disconnected feeling if there isn’t some mild depression involved.
September 29th, 2006 at 4:55 pm
Toys to take: Stacking cups. If you can’t find them you can use plastic stacking measuring cups. One small stuffed animal. Our daughter didn’t care about the stuffed animal. Bubbles (packed in zip lock bag just in case). We also used her cereal bowl and spoon as a toy drum and she liked to play with the small flashlight we took. There are lots of things the baby can play with….you don’t need to take a lot of toys. Be creative and use what you’ve got around you as long as it is safe.
My sister sent my daughter a box of small gifts recently and Autumn enjoyed the bubble wrap and box it came in more than the toys. :)
September 29th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
Hi All,
These are such fun topics. We have 3 bio children and are adopting our 4th from China. I personally didn’t care for the diaper genie or diaper champ. They both started to smell after awhile no matter how many times I cleaned them with Lysol and bleach. I found that the produce bags at the grocery store worked best and then made sure the garbage went out every night. (Just my opinion)
The whole attachment and bonding topic/no holding subject is very interesting to me. I never wanted to share my bio children, so I don’t think I’ll want to share our new (hopefully soon coming) baby either. Perhaps this “flaw” in my personality will be good for our baby??!! I think I’ll probably let my mom hold our baby for a couple minutes the first time they see eachother, but I’ll probably hog her the rest of the time like I did with our others.
As for as quick meals…If you don’t have time to freeze your own and you have a Trader Joes around – stock up. On evenings when we have sports or other extra activities, these Trader Joes frozen meals come in handy. They also have some great non frozen things that make meals quick like simmer sauces so all you need are chicken breats etc.
As far as the whole Utah issue with multiple wives…Just remember China’s history and all the concubines. I don’t know if it would really faze them. (With all due respect) The human race has done some weird things through out history, this is really too bad though. I’m surprised they got through their home study. Perhpas their social worker needed to dig deeper???
September 29th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
>I believe
>that after being in China for 2 weeks, she will know who her Mommy >and Daddy are and if she is fine with others holding her then that >should be something that is not denied. I believe we should all do >what we can to form an inbreakable bond with our children,,this is >just my point.
Imagine your child you have right now. (If you have one – try to imagine if you don’t yet.) Imagine one day complete strangers take her away from everything she’s ever known, hand her off to people she has never seen before. Do you think that your child, after 2 weeks with the complete strangers (new parents), would “know” them as mother and father? Do you think your child might remember you, the original caretakers (parents) even after 2 weeks? How long do you think it would take them to forget you and start thinking of the new parents as permanent parents? Why or why not?
Something for all of us to think about.
Sherry in Vermont
September 29th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
For those interested in the content of The Story of You Post… I can’t remember everything verbatim, so I will quote what I do and paraphrase the rest. There was a front page feature article in the Sunday Chicago Tribune this past weekend. It was about an area, I believe in Utah, called Eagle Mountain. It is a small community where polygamy has been practiced for many years. A family currently in China adopting a second child–an older child I assumed to be classified as special needs due to age–was confronted by another family member after seeing the article and knowing that’s where this particular family lived. After being “cornered on the carpet”, the parent (father) admitted to having “more family” and couldn’t wait to go home and reunite with everyone with their new child. He also stated he was “glad to be out.” He went on to say that in addition to being in China “to adopt this wonderful child”, he had also been asked by others in the community to “scout out a non-US location where they could all live.” He then went on to a normal post about his newly adopted daughter and the events of the day.
September 29th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
lost in despair, there’s a whole thread on the forum about babycarriers. The Ergo seems to have quite a fan club of btdt folk – that’s the one I’m going to get when it’s time.
Books – I love Deborah Gray’s Attaching in Adoption.
I also can recommend “Adoption Parenting: Creating a Toolbox, Building Connections” [Macrae and MacLeod, eds]. This one covers a huge range of topics with very practical strategies including attachment and early days right through to school learning issues and identity building. A good resource for the long haul!
September 29th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
I can’t believe that they would do that. I hope someone does find out from their agency while they are still in China. CCAA may not be as upset if they are found out before they leave with the child. Who was their social worker, unreal? I have seen shows on this town (Dateline, I think) and it is very scary. They often force 12&13 year olds to marry much older men. I can only imagine some little girl from China being placed in this situation. It makes me sick!
September 29th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
I’ve been so busy today that I never got to come back and see where this thread headed. We’re all over the place. I love it.
With an Oct LID, I’m starting to think about freezer meals now. That’s why I suggested it. I know that once I’m in that countdown, time will go faster than I think, or feel, it will.
What I’m starting to do is make double batches. For instance, this week I made a pan of baked pasta with turkey italian sausage. It was just as easy to double everything and make two pans. One pan gave us two dinners and a lunch. The other pan is wrapped in an aluminium pan with a lid and then wrapped in foil and tucked away in the freezer. I agree that soups freeze really well, too. I love the idea of a folder to store recipes. One for freezer foods and one for kid-friendly would be wonderful.
As for attachment, I’m going to be a first-time parent so I’m watching, reading, learning, and waiting.
September 29th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
Sherry in Vermont: I know that’s one reason our DD was so stiff with us at first. When we got her at her orphanage one of her caretakers stood outside the open window and cried. She and our DD were very distressed. (Although she also communicated to us that she was happy for our DD) The caretaker gestured to our DD to hold her so she could comfort her. Then she told DD that I was mommy and to be happy. Our agency guide then gently shooed her away. It was so sad…The pictures the orphange took with the camera we sent ahead shows her holding our DD in a lot of the photos. I think it will be special to our DD to see, and hopefully meet again someday, this young woman who loved her so much. I knew DD had to have time to grieve.
September 29th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
The diaper genie reeks once the kid eats food………diaper champ is better, but still needs to be emptied each nite……diaper champ uses kitchen trash bags instead of those stupid expensive refills……..stick a cat litter “stick up” type deodorizer in the bottom.
As far as toys……..baby was 10 mo. at adoption……….she loved the board books I bought with basic baby photos and I used those to show her new English words……….she also LOVED the baby photo album with daddy and sissy and aunty in it…………that would get her to quit screaming every time and I think helped her recognize them when we got home……..I also bought 2 of the same silky blankets…mailed one ahead to SWI and I am SURE she never got it……at any rate, I handed it to her when we met and each time I laid her in bed……….she HATES stuffed animals and was not a finger/thumb sucker, nor did she haul around a towel like a lot of the babies………..she did, however, like to rub out patches of her hair to self-soothe………each bedtime I would hand her the blanket and gently move hands from hair to blanket…….now that we are home blanket has helped her stop rubbing her hair out and helps her understand it is sleep time…whether that be in the playpen in my room or in crib in kids room…………I have 2 of the same so 1 can wash. I am very happy I hauled both along.
Do bring some American diapers….don’t bring wipes…they are fine there……even at French type WalMart store the diapers labelled Pampers were clearly NOT what we get here……….if you want to do bare minimum get Huggies overnights and use for long Consulate-type apts., touring and ESPECIALLY plane ride home!!!!! Those overnights cannot be overflowed!!
September 29th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
cmbj, For toys for a child with a vision and mobility impairment you could try this link. http://www.tsbvi.edu/recc/mivi.htm
If it doesn’t work just google lilli nielson. She’s a therapist/educator who has a fantastic active play program designed specifically for children with visual and multiple impairments.
I’ve used her Little Room toy which is a sensory box the child can lie/sit in and discover all sorts of sensory play. The plywood resonance board already suggested is part of the program as well. Great stuff!
September 29th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
dunedin, wow, it was great to see your posts. Congrats!! Is your site still up? I wish the very best for you and welcome back to RQ!!!!
jfk lid-08-08-05 (submitted our Letter of Acceptance today..yea)
September 29th, 2006 at 7:59 pm
nah…………my site was HOPELESS in China so I just gave it up and started emailing people my kodak picture albums instead………….We are home and doing pretty well!
September 29th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
dunedin, I understand, enjoy your cutie pie!! Glad you made it home.
jfk
September 29th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
cmbj- not sure if this was mentioned, but I have seen those balls and toys that vibrate, they are great for touch and sound. I love them, I wish they made them for adults to relax with. Oh yeah, they do make pillows that vibarte, my grandma used to have one, feaked you out everytime you sat down. Modern day whoopie cushion:)
Any suggestions to a a website that works really well for photos, short movies and ablity to add. I have been looking at others, but I want to know if they are easy to use. Please let me know. my1girlcharlie@yahoo.com
September 29th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
cmbj….1st time poster….look for a piano type toy (there are several models out there—the more bells and whistles the better!!!) that attaches to the foot of the crib (great for kicking activity and auditory stim) that can also be played with on belly on floor with hands (this usually comes after foot action is mastered)…….I am a home care nurse to a deaf-blind treasure and for the first 18mos of his life his foot piano was THE BOMB!!!! (not to mention it helped him to gain strength to become the VERY active, physically adept 4yo that he is today)…….GOOD LUCK……
September 29th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
cmbj…..I have an after-thought……as noted above any and everything that vibrated was a whooping success….!!!!!
September 29th, 2006 at 9:33 pm
Thank you all BTDT’s for the information. I concur that a folder with the recipies, one for books, one for toys would be a great reference for all, but especially for us first timers.
I often stand in the baby aisle at Target and get completely overwhelmed because I don’t seem to know what I will need.
Ask me to buy stuff for someone elses child and I am full of useful information. Maybe because with newborn babies you know where you are starting. With our adopted children even after we have the referral information we don’t really know for sure the size of our children or where they are developmentally vs their age.
I can’t wait to find out.
S
September 29th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Maybe someone can start a recipe thread in the forum. I can sticky it to the top if it looks like it’s going to be a big enough thread.
This turned into a wonderful thread. Ya’ll are incredible. Thanks.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
jbabes, this is very disturbing information about the family. Is there any chance you could have been mistaken or misread the posting (I’m guessing not since it was later edited)? I’m really just hoping that it is not true. I can’t understand how this could have happened (not once, but twice). I have to assume the adoption agency was unaware.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
Recipe threads started. :o)
September 29th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
I just went and read the eagle mountain story here:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/15638507.htm
And found a web site for eagle mountain here:
http://www.eaglemountainutah.com/community-lifestyle.htm
Kind of seems “Stepford-ish” – and reminds of the HBO show Big Love. The article says that Eagle Mountain is made of up of almost all Polygamists. It seems like a social worker in Utah would know this? I don’t know? I hope not. I wonder if the adoption will go through?
September 29th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
I do NOT understand the family in China ordeal. I felt my life was an open book to our SW and agency… (IF true) How would people like that get passed all the “investigative” stuff?
September 30th, 2006 at 6:59 am
If a social worker is mormon and happens to think polygamy is no big deal, would she (he?) maybe leave it out of the home study report?
Hopefully the agency will figure it out and decide the best way to handle this.
October 1st, 2006 at 3:37 am
Do we know if the agency even knows about this?