Rumor Reminders, and some analysis
Just as a reminder, some agencies are pointing to a speed up to happen soon. And these agencies are from several countries.
The CCAA said 18 months for a max a while back at one of their “tour” events. Now they are telling another agency 24 months and maybe longer. But someone at the CCAA is giving other agencies the idea that things are about to speed up. We simply do not know which is true.
A little more from yesterday’s rumor, the CCAA also said that right now there are no new regulations planned. However, if some are put into place they will not apply to those already logged in.
There was also some numbers given, and I believe some of it is in error. They said they continue to receive 2,000 dossiers per month while about 1,000 babies are available every month, and that they received 2,400 dossiers from parents in August.
However, if they get 2,000 dossiers from parents and there are 1,000 babies then that would be two months to get through a month of parent dossiers, and that is not happening. I’ve been hearing anywhere from 600 to 800 babies available per month, which would seem to be more in line with the 2,000 dossiers per month (since it’s taking around three months to get through a month).
Unless they expect to start receiving 1,000 baby dossiers a month, which would lead to a slight speed up. Let’s do some very rough figuring to see where that would take us:
September in Nov and Dec
October in Jan/Feb 2007
November in Mar/Apr
December in May/June
January in July/Aug
February in Sept/Oct
March in Nov/Dec
Which would mean that at the end of 2007 the wait would be 21 months.
So, maybe they are going to be able to get through most months in two months, but 2 of those months will take longer?
Just to look at both sides, if they continue with about three months per month then we get:
Sept LID’s in Dec/Jan/Feb
Oct in Mar/Apr/May
Nov in June/July/Aug
Dec in Sept/Oct/Nov
And if any one of those months takes four months instead of three then that takes us to the end of Dec 2005 getting a referral in Dec 2007. That one really seems to be more in line with the recent rumor, but it does not jive with the numbers they gave.
I hope the agencies expecting things to speed up some are right. But, as I said earlier this week, I’m not counting on it at this point. I’m expecting my end of September LID to get me a referral in February, give or take a month.
September 30th, 2006 at 8:13 am
Oh, if only CCAA would level with us and let us know what is in their heads. .
September 30th, 2006 at 9:09 am
RQ, just a heads up. In the second to last paragraph you say December 2006 getting a referral in 2007. Someone is going to read that and despite the context say you said back to a 12 month wait.
Other than that I completely agree what they say and what they do are two very different things. My mom always told me not to trust people like that. :( I agree with the wickedwitch I just wish they would be honest and let us do the numbers so we can know somewhat where we stand.
B
LID 4/19/06
September 30th, 2006 at 9:10 am
wickedwitcheast, my thoughts EXACTLY. I’m sitting here…34 years old with two children (5 and 3). If I’m going to wait until NEXT December for our third child when I was hopeful that I’d adopt this fall, I will pursue a foster-care adoption in the next eight months and still adopt from China…but because nobody is telling us ANYTHING we cannot grow out family without worrying we’re taking on too much, etc…for the good of families and children I wish we would know something. Thanks for listening to me vent!! Congrats to everybody who recently received referrals!!!
September 30th, 2006 at 9:17 am
RQ, yes in the paragraph that jj2china points out, I think you meant Dec 2005 getting a referral in Dec 2007…
September 30th, 2006 at 9:23 am
there is a new posting on the CCAA site about a forum held last week. looks like they are addressing some issues…
September 30th, 2006 at 9:23 am
RQ,
I just looked at my chart of past referral dates and which LID were covered for the last 13 months. I came up with an average of 13 days (rounding up) of LID covered for each referral month. Maybe you could do this too just to check my math. So your first scenario of two months of referrals to get through one months LID is close to what has happened in the past year. That doesn’t mean that the future will continue like it did in the past, but is interesting none the less. I hope that the ideas and/or rumors about speeding up do turn out to be true.
September 30th, 2006 at 9:27 am
it will be interesting to see what comes out of this forum they had. anybody know anything else (details) about this meeting they had?
September 30th, 2006 at 9:47 am
jj2china – thanks for the heads up, I changed it.
jiangxi2mom – The difference in 12.5 days per month and 15 days per month is the difference in 2.5 months to get through a month and two months to get through a month. It’s a huge difference over the long term.
Also, there is a six month span in there that if you average it you get somewhere around 10 days per month. It just depends on which months you choose to use. This latest 18 day batch helps the average a whole lot, and most of us are presuming that this month was kind of an anomaly because the first week of August was so barren.
September 30th, 2006 at 9:58 am
Hey all,
RQ great analysis. tho agree to watch that DEC 2005 bit.
I am getting to be of the mindset that I’ll be lucky if am looking at 2 years from some time this fall. Everythign I am reading, everything that I am seeing (referrals of the past few months) to me does not point to a speed up at all. I just don’t see it. It’s really breaking my heart. Our adoption agency told us 10 months from LID to referreal in Feb. 06. What a joke that was? I feel swindled.
So when I think through the 2 year scenario, I wonder about our paperwork. Will I need 2 more fingerprintings?, 2 more USCIS updates, 2 more homestudy updates? I’ll have to renew my passport for sure. 2 years is a long time. What about health issues? Anything can happen in 2 years. Anything!
I feel that given the amount of agencies involved (both federal and nonprofit). China has to speak up soon. At least that’s my hope, or the US is just going to have either keep processing renewals and/or keep extending the USCIS time frame.
This is why I don’t think Congress will extend the USCIS form. They won’t because no one can say for sure where the wait will end. For the first time in a long while, I can see their point.
The wait in China will be affecting alot people around the world. They need to say something and fast. Even if it means, that less people go to China.
UGH. And I am not even LID!
Hann23
DTC 8/17/06
September 30th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Just a thought that has been on my mind a lot.
The CCAA is choosing to not tell the world the reality about the wait. No matter what the reason for the slow down the CCAA is NOT admitting officially that the wait is out of control. When I say officially I mean a memo to all agencies and a note on the website. The question is why? Their site says the wait is a function of supply and demand not of the efficiency of lack thereof of the CCAA. They “talk†about twice as many babies as dossiers etc.. Okay, if there truly aren’t enough children to meet the demand why does the CCAA not say officially that the wait will go beyond 18 months and possibly beyond 24 and get rid of all the speculation.
Wouldn’t it be in the best interests of the program to be honest and let people decide to go to other countries thus decreasing the LIDs and increasing efficiency . Unless the CCAA thinks this is temporary and they don’t want to discourage people. If the problem truly is supply and demand why do they think that the supply will increase?
As it stands the status of China as the most stable IA program is in jeopardy. Agencies may continue to think that China is stable because at least it doesn’t shut down periodically like Vietnam and Korea. I don’t however think adoptive parents consider the wait tripling in six months “stableâ€.
I feel like a rat in a maze I keep going around and around trying to find a way out.
B
LID 4/19/06
September 30th, 2006 at 10:58 am
If the wait is truly going to extend out to 2 YEARS, then why doesn’t the CCAA issue a quota? It is ridiculous and completely insensitive to tie-up hopeful adoptive families like this when they can make different decisions. I have checked several agency websites and they are still listing the wait for a referral from China as between 10 months to 14 months. No mention of expecting this wait to increase etc.
If I have to wait until freakin December 2007 to get my referral I want to know NOW so I can pursue another adoption while waiting. We had planned to adopt from China twice, but after this experience, I think we will look elsewhere for our other adoption.
I am tired of the mind games being played by the CCAA or whoever is doing it in China. And, YES, I do think they have a better handle on what is going on over there in terms of wait times than what they let on.
I know they don’t know how many babies they will recieve, but given that they keep the babies for a minimum of 3 months before they are deemed truly abandoned and available for adoption, they should be able to provide a fairly accurate rough idea of what to expect 3 months out.
If they are receiving that many referrals greater than the number of babies available, I think they should implement a quota or something. I also think they should get a move on working with orphanages who are not part of the IA program. If China is truly interested in the best interest of the child– meaning if they cannot find a loving family in China to adopt the babies, then they need to allow these babies to be adopted internationally. Honestly, what kind of a life are they providing for them by keeping them in an orphanage until they are 15 or 16 when they release them to make their own way?
Do these children get a good education? Are they able to find jobs? Do they have anyone else in the world to love them? Family? Are they even considered suitable for marriage by other Chinese folks since nobody will know their ancestry? I think that is a big deal in China isn’t it?
RQ, I appreciate all you do with bringing us information, but right now I think I am just going to stick my fingers in my ears and sing, “la la la la LA.” on this one for awhile.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:01 am
JJ2- Saying something admits there is a problem. There isn’t according to CCAA. They keep referring kids at the same rate which looks like they don’t have too many there. US agencies keep taking $ for dossier service so they dont have a problem. Apparently, it is just us waiting that have the problem.
It goes along with the idea of why CCAA may never put out new restrictions. They don’t have to. If they say nothing, they will not be accountable to anything.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:05 am
RQ,
I read in the forum that some or all agencies got a letter from the CCAA … Can you please give us some details (what exactly was in the letter) ?
Thanks and continue your good work :-)
RDT xxx.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:08 am
Thank you RQ for pointing this out. After reading the original post in the forum, I layed in bed and did some math in my head (normal people count sheep).The post stated that CCAA can process about 1000 dossiers per month but are receiving 2000. By the way I figured it, providing these numbers are correct, it would not be until around the middle of 2008 until they got to 24 months. So there is some discrepancy in this rumor somewhere. I hope the descrepancy is in the “24 months” part of the rumor. I especially keep thinking of the FACT from Australia this past July that stated 18 months by next summer (2007) to me that sounds more logical and the numbers tend to jive much better. BTW, Am I the only one who spends half my life COUNTING while I wait????
September 30th, 2006 at 11:19 am
PS If dossiers are piling up at such rapid pace then why is CCAA allowing things to get so out of control?? If they really feel next year will go out to 24 months then why have then not stopped the program or put a quota in place? This is what I keep wondering about. Makes me think either the rumors are taken out of context from it’s original source or it is very much in control.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:53 am
As someone stated above, yes it would mean that you would have to do your paperwork over another 2 whole times. We are just re-doing our homestudy next month and prints in Dec, then I-171 in spring – if this new rumor is true, with a LID of 12/20/05, we will have to re-do everything a 3RD time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . I am not ready for this – not at all. This is unacceptable. I just cannot continue this for another year or more now it seems.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:58 am
the extended wait is already killing me. In the extra months we’ve waited so far, I’ve developed pre-diabetes, borderline high blood pressure and my husband is being treated for mild depresssion.
I’m now going to have to disclose these on our homestudy update, (that if the wait had been as expected would not have had to be done at all).
Now I have to wonder, even if I can emotionally survive the wait, am I no longer going to be “eligible” to parent another child from China?
And if all these new health issues don’t bump us, how long will we have to wait? Our daughter is still asking everyday where her sister is and why we don’t go get her. I can blame the CCAA for the wait, but she just blames us.
I wish I’d never told her we were going to adopt again.
September 30th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
I am learning here from others that if we adopt a second child I will not tell my first child, if possible, until we are close. I feel so badly for all of these little ones waiting for their little sisters. I might just be the hardest on them because time seems so much longer to them.
September 30th, 2006 at 12:08 pm
Sorry amygun you have to tell your kids, our s/w interviewed our dd. Unless the child is very young the s/w will want to interview them. There is whole write up in our homestudy about our dd’s experieces with adoption and how she understands it etc.
B
LID 4/19/06
September 30th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
A little off topic…I would be interested in knowing the timeframe agencies are telling families who are contemplating adopting from China…people who know nothing about the process yet and are just gather information. Are they really telling them approximately 6 months for paperchasing and another 14 months for LID to referral? And are they telling them the wait may increase? Are most agencies being honest? Any info on this?
September 30th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
RQ,
“The difference in 12.5 days per month and 15 days per month is the difference in 2.5 months to get through a month and two months to get through a month. It’s a huge difference over the long term.”
Yes I know….I was just trying to look at approximate figures so as not to be too bleak. I rounded the 12.5 to 13 and compared it to your 15 day analysis, and included the last 13 months instead of the last 6 months in the calculation because those numbers were bad enough. Like I said, I was just interested in looking at the last year for context. But if history is any guide, referral waits go up as well as down. It is good to know that my calculations are the same as yours.
September 30th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
Snoopy8
My agency (a large China only) told me that they tell prespective parents whatever the current wait time is. I was a little shocked. I told them that if the same number of people continue to send dossiers to China then the wait could grow expotentially. They seem to be in a little bit of denial. I know that they need to sign more people up, but when we signed up we thought we were getting in the 6-8 month line, not the 18 month or 24 month or who knows when line. I believe that a lot of agencies are not being competely truthful with prespective parents.
I hope that prespective parents do research on their own before they sign up, but I didn’t find RQ until about 3 months ago. I just went along reading our agencies newsletter, and blindly believing something would turn around and we would get our baby this year.
Maryanne
LID 2-15-06
September 30th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
I too wonder what the agencies are telling prospective parents. I feel the need for a campaign on adoption/infertility websites to warn prospective adoptive parents about the potential problems with China..
I think I’d recommend that the wait for China is not stable and any adoptive parents should thoroughly investigate the process. I would tell them how the wait has grown significantly in the past few months. I should acknowledge that the future is uncertain and their could be a speed up. But the signs are pointing toward a continued significant slow down.
I visited a couple of infertility sites before I was adopting and was thinking of posting there. I am not going to do anything right now. It’s just something I am considering. I think because I am angry and want to do something about it. I would never name agencies or even provide links to this or other blogs.
It’s just so unbelievable that the agencies are continuing to use the current wait time as a prediction of future wait times.
PS. I have a six year old son. And I have been brutally honest with him. I told him he would be 7 when he would be meeting his sister, yesterday and today I am telling him eight. Thankfully, he just started a new school so he’s focused on other things. I am SO grateful for that. Also, maybe he’ll just do better in China when he’s 8 rather then 6.
Hann23
DTC 8/17/06
September 30th, 2006 at 1:07 pm
I don’t think stability of a program should be equated with a longer wait. No one at my agency ever promised me a certain amount of time and then I would have a child. When I think of a program that is unstable, I think of one that is in danger of shutting down or where it is necessary to grease the palms of foreign officials, or where government relations could jeopardize the conclusion of the process. It’s fair to warn people that the wait is long but I do not believe it is unstable. Why steer families away from children who ultimately will need a home?
September 30th, 2006 at 1:08 pm
I have resigned myself to a referral in November esp with 8/24 being soooo big(our agency alone 104). I have contacted our SW about an update for refiling and will start that in the next few weeks. Our 171 expires on 1/07/07. The best news is according to the manager of our CIS office they can get our I-600 processed as a redo in less than 1 month. I believe her since it only took 2 days on our fingerprints.
At least this is some good news about Iowa.
I am going to refile in October just so it is done and I don’t have to fret over it. I figure we won’t travel until January.
Toni LID 8/30/05
September 30th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
I don’t think it would be neccessary to re-do paperwork 2 and 3 times. My LID is 11/05 and my agency advised me to let my fingerprints expire(12/05) and wait to see how things progress before re-doing any paperwork. So if things are really slow for any of the recent LID’s, you could just wait until CCAA had your LID closer, and then re-do.
My SW interviewed my children also. On my agency yahoo group, someone told them they HAD to tell their children before she would begin their homestudy.
As far as everyone saying that the program is stable and at least you KNOW you will get your child at the end of the long wait, I don’t think they are showing any stability at all and no one can tell us for sure that we will get our child. Stable means unchanging, uniform. The only thing stable is that referrals are coming every month. When I started this process, my agency even advised me to put on my adoption petition that I admired that China had such a stable program. They are saying the program will not close, but are they to be trusted? Someone high up in my agency admitted that they do not know the real reason behind the slowdown. I for one, am not counting on the word of the CCAA and will only know I will get my child when I arrive home safely with her.
September 30th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
babyincite-I don’t think we want to steer families away from these children. Right now the CCAA is saying there are more families than available children. I just think it’s important to be fair to prospective parents, many of whom have had years of infertility and other emotionally stressful circumstances. Because of the wait, there are some families who can now adopt only one child. Maybe predictable should be used instead of stable. When I started this adoption, everything about this was predictable. We were told that timeframes could vary, but only by a month or two and that the program had been very predictable in the past and appeared to be continuing that way. I prepared myself for some variation, but not the unknown and getting more mysterious as each month passes. Can you tell this is not an optimistic day for me?
September 30th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Somewhereoverchina,
I totally hear what you are saying. I think it is totally fair to let people know they could be in for a long wait, and they should be told. Sadly, there are always unknowns when one embarks on a journey like the one we have begun. I too am discouraged. I certainly would like to know when we might bring our child home. It’s just a word like “unstable” evokes so many impressions that I believe we should be careful how it is used. Unpredictable is better :-)
September 30th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
somewhereoverchina – I wish my agency would be as up front with us as yours is with you. If it was not for this site, I would not even have known our dossier was out of the review room!!! They don’t tell us anything.
Did they really tell you it was okay just to wait until everything expired and your LID got closer to re-do everything. Can this be done?
I just wish our agency would be up front with us.
I agree with everything you said above, that this is not predictable anymore and I totally don’t know anymore if we will get our daughter anymore.
September 30th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
waitforhannah,
you can look at CCAA’s website where they do inform you that your documents have cleared the review room.
September 30th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
somewhreoverchina~
I was wondering about letting my fingerprints expire…my prints expire in 12/05, and my 171, not until 5/06.
(We are LID 11/30) My question was that if I re-print now, will I need to re-print again for the 171 that I will more than likely need to redo? I asked my SW and she is going to bring this very question to the review board of my HS agency. Interesting that your agency says this is ok.
September 30th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
I meant my 171 expires in 5/07-obviously.
September 30th, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Hello everyone, I’m new to this site. I have just started my paperwork, and have not payed a agencies fee yet. Should I consider Vietnam instead of China. Please let me know your opinions. I get very upset reading about what is going on.
September 30th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Suzy:
I don’t know if you have to redo fingerprints 2x once you have to redo you paperwork. I do know that I let my fingerprints expire (got the ok from my agency prior to making this decision) and they were expired for about 1 month when I redid my entire I600-A. My theory was why have to deal with the immigration office twice. So in my answer, yes, you can allow your prints to expire. Hope this helps
September 30th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
addyrose: I can’t answer that one for you. But, what I can tell you is that if I would have known what I know now, I would have chosen a different route. To be honest, I didn’t realize that there were SO MANY families adopting from China when I first began our paperwork. My problem is that I am with a China only agency and I can’t switch to a different country. I haven’t had the heart to tell my DH about the latest rumour of 2 years. I’m not sure how’d he react and sense at this point it is just a rumour…I will leave it alone with him. Good Luck on your decision.
September 30th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Was the 2400 dossiers in August rumor for August 2006? I’m guessing it is…and *gulp* if it is. I mean, I believe it with the numbers I saw from our agency and so forth, plus how long it seems to be taking to get LID (but I thought that was due to vacations).
2400 in August?
okay…where’s the chocolate?
BTW, I was DTC 8/18/06 and have a LID of 9/14/06 (so the above poster who was DTC 8/17/06…please take heart, you probably have your LID just don’t know it yet….at least I sincerely HOPE so!!!)
September 30th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
wait4hannah and suzyQ-the amount of info I get from my agency is directly proportional to the amount I ask. They are very willing to answer and give me very honest answers. They encourage questions which I find amazing. I was surprised they told me to let my prints expire. I had seen somewhere that you weren’t supposed to. If I remember correctly, the purpose in letting them expire is that if you need to re-do the I-171H over, you want the most up to date prints since they expire in one year and the I-171H in 18 months. If you renew early, there is the potential of re-doing prints 2X.
addyrose-your’s is a very personal decision and I would carefully research the risks with each country. I had hoped by now that China would have gotten back to a more predictable program, but the wait started extending last October and has continued to extend with no let up in sight. It would be a different story if there was a concrete explanation for the slowdown.
September 30th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
FWIW- In our monthly update our agencey told us the wait is likely to get longer than 14 mos, but that they thought maybe things will stabilize around November. They don’t really give much info out, so who knows. All I know is that this wait is killing me and I’m not even half way there!!
Lorie
LID June 7 2006
September 30th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
ADDYROSE –
Switching countries is a very personal decision, all I can is that if we would have known what we know now back in May 2005, when we first started this process, we would have chosen another country or even tried domestic adoption. Even now, we are thinking of starting to pursue a Plan B.
We too had to put why we were adopting from China on our paperwork and the answer was there smooth, predictable, accurate program. I could not say this anymore if I were asked again.
Best of luck with your decision. If you truly believe your daughter is in China, don’t let anything stop you. My only adivce is to be emotionally prepared. This wait has been, more frustrating, harder and longer than we would have ever dreamed of.
September 30th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
I was on the fence in April as to whether to go to VN first or China first. I picked China. I know someone who was going through the same thing at the same time–she chose VN and is HOME ALREADY WITH HER BABY!
I could have gone and been back and still be waiting another year or TWO for a child from China.
I am tempted to do it now if I can swing it. I won’t give up my place for daughter in China but heck I can get her a brother or sister in the time I have waited.
My advice now to anyone just starting and has not sent their docs in–do your research but only go with China if you can wait 2 years or more.
Not only is two years a long time to wait…it just opens up so many possibilities for things to happen in the meantime that would jeopardize the entire adoption.
Not a good situation.
September 30th, 2006 at 5:10 pm
Hello Snoopy8 and all!
I was just talking with someone who knows we are adopting from China and she told me that a friend of hers had recently begun the paperchase for China and that their agency told them a 10-12 month wait. I was shocked! The person with whom I was talking to made it sound like the wait time was a reflection of the agency–I cleared things up for her. I feel awful, though, if agencies are still stating 10-12 months to people who are not yet connected with yahoo groups or better yet, this blog. I know I didn’t sign on to these groups until after we were into the paperchase. A 10-12 month wait is really just a lie at this point—I mean, they at least should be quoting most recent LID to referral times. We have an LID of 4/4/06 and I’m still trying to swallow the pill of a referral in 12/07. And to think we may have to redo our paperwork twice is too much to even consider—the $$$$ and time—what a ridiculous waste!! Why can’t people just level with us, for goodness sakes. What is so darn hard about that??!!? At the very least, they should stop accepting dossiers if the wait is already stretching out to a possible 2 year wait! So much could happen within that time—it’s crazy. Okay…I’m off to enjoy my glass of shiraz…I will try to calm down. By the way, you guys are all just soooo great!! I don’t post much right now, but I do appreciate all that I’m learning from all of you—patience and laughter and friendship—it’s all right here.
September 30th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
ADDYROSE
We are with an all china agency, so we really can’t switch to another country at this point. If we had known how the long wait would be, we might have picked another program. Still it is your choice in the end. Think about how old you are, how long you are willing to wait.
We thought we would end up adopting more than one child from China, now we are thinking after China we will likely choose another route to grow our family.
Best of luck on this hard decison,
Maryanne
September 30th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
Amygum,
On a lighter note, my 5 year old asked me last week, “When are we getting that baby we ORDERED from China! It sure is taking a long time!” All I could do was laugh… Some days that is how I feel! We did choose to tell our daughter from the beginning. In our case it has worked out just fine, but I know it depends on the child. Her little world will be rocked (for the better we believe) when it isin’t all about her anymore! We look forward to having 2 princesses in the family! Even if it is in 2007!
September 30th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
mstebby
DH and I discussed this just this morning. We are an “older” couple and had hoped to adopt 2 children from China. Now we have decided that once our little girl gets here (some time next summer, maybe?), we will pursue a brother/sister for her elsewhere. Our agency is still telling people 12 month wait. What a lie! We’ve just redone our home study and our criminal background checks. Loved having to pay for this stuff twice :( If there were some way we could switch countries now, WE WOULD. I am disheartened, sad, mad….you name it. As someone stated earlier, I too feel like a rat in a maze. China needs to stop accepting dossiers if they are “so far behind”. Do they continue because of money from unsuspecting foreigners? Their website is of little help. And obviously they aren’t giving much information to agencies. I am sick of talking to my case worker, only to be told nothing but “be patient”. Sorry all–had to vent.
September 30th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Isn’t Vietnam up to a 24 month wait for a female child? I havent had this confirmed recently. I thought they said 24 months for a girl and 6 months for a boy.
September 30th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
Is there anything reasonable for the agencies to base a speed-up on? Or are they just looking after business and saying what we desperately want to hear I wonder?
Sorry, but I’m getting cynical as well as nauseous with this ever increasing wait.
September 30th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
To those bummed at the prospect of doing the paperwork over again twice: FWIW, my agency told me I could just let the fingerprints expire in mid-Oct. and then wait and see what happens the next couple of months. If things speed up and it looks as though I might be able to squeak by with the current I-171H (which expires 5/1/07), then I’ll get the reprints. If it becomes clear I’ll need a new I-171H, I’ll get that underway after the first of the year. This process brings such a boatload of stress there’s no point in adding to the angst by creating a possibility of doing things a third time. Ack. Apparently it’s fine to let the prints expire, they just need to be valid when you’re in China and until you’re home.
September 30th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
>Not only is two years a long time to wait…it just opens up so many >possibilities for things to happen in the meantime that would >jeopardize the entire adoption.
Huh. Isn’t this the #1 reason USCIS says it doesn’t want to extend the I-171H validity out to 2 years – because of the changes people could have in their lives that could make them no longer good candidates for international adoption (ie, loss of income in particular as you have to sign a paper saying the adoptive child won’t become a burden of the state).
While the wait is long and tries our patience… it’s really nothing “new”. As long as there has been adoption from China, the program has been fluid. The wait has NEVER been “the same”. There are periods in which it stayed approximately within 6-8 months, but most often, closer to a year, when you look at the history line. For those who were lucky enough to adopt within that time period, when it was at 6-8 months, well, understand you were lucky, and it was not “the standard”. I don’t think it will happen again. I think the wait may “stabilize” out at about 16 months for a while. Depending on how many dossiers get sent in and how many they do, that could be longer or shorter.
The writing is on the wall, and has been for a while. This IS the new normal… roughly a week or 2 of referrals every month. Every month we agonize over when it will speed up, and I just don’t think that’s realistically going to happen – certainly not any time soon. I don’t think China really does know – I mean really, how can you predict how many babies will be abandoned in a month, a year?
Anyway, my 2 cents worth.
September 30th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
amygum, (way back a 12:01p.m.)
We have had a homestudy AND a homestudy update… in two different states, with two different agencies and two different social workers. I also have 3 children. Neither time did either social worker ask to speak to ANY of my kids or what my children thought about having a new adopted sister. They never asked us if this was something we talked about as a family… nothing! So, IMO… telling your child about a new baby is not something you HAVE to do… at least in our case. anyway.
September 30th, 2006 at 7:40 pm
I just wanted to add my 2 cents as well…
This wait is really hard on all of us. I know that I get very angry and frustrated, going back and forth from one extreme (This is the month it is going to speed up!) to the other (just forget this whole thing…let’s save our money and go to Tahiti.) I have tried to imagine my daughter as Guatemalan, Vietnamese, Russian, and as an American foster child. Unfortunately, my heart keeps telling me she is Chinese and that I will have to wait to hold her.
The one thing that gets me through when nothing else does (other than prayer) is that I know that somewhere in China, my daughter’s birthmother is going through a grief far worse than I am while waiting on a referral. I have read comments like this on this site and others before, and they always hit home with me. Right now, somewhere in China, a mother and father are spending the last precious moments with their daughter, knowing that they cannot keep her. For them, time is passing incredibly fast. For us, it is incredibly slow. Eventually, their daughter’s face will complete a file at the CCAA and a lucky family will get to hold her forever. Meanwhile, her birthparents will always wonder what happened to her and if she has a good life. Their pain will never end. Mine will end in a few months, maybe more, but it will be resolved.
I hope that these thoughts are helpful to others as they are to me. I am probably the most impatient person in the world, and this has been a real life lesson so far. However, it helps when I remember the larger picture and remember that there is a daughter for me in China and that I will get to hold her at some point and I won’t have to give her up.
September 30th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
I want my baby – beautifully said!
September 30th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
Ooops! Kristinian – beautifully said!
September 30th, 2006 at 8:03 pm
Amygum~
Maybe the rules vary by state or by your SW but I live in NY (Upstate) and our SW also met with our then 7 y/o. It was a requirement and included in our home study. It could be the fact that he is considered an older child – but I don’t know that for sure. It was nothing too involved and it took place on the day she came to see our home and do our final interview. She just sat with him in his playroom and asked questions about his age, school and his interests. She then asked him a few questions about the adoption and how he felt about it.
He does ask from time to time what’s taking so long and we share our frustrations with him in a way that he can understand (even when we don’t). He was never one to ask about having siblings too much – a few times but never like I hear from some of my friends with only children. I don’t think my heart could have withstood it.
If you don’t have to tell your child until you’re closer to referral then it’s really a judgment call for when you think she’s ready.
Good luck,
Jo-Anne
September 30th, 2006 at 8:15 pm
Kristinian-thanks for reminding us about the other side of the equation, which is far worse than ours. It’s so easy to forget when we get caught up in the wait.
Sherry in VT-the reason the USCIS doesn’t want the extension IS because of circumstances that would make us inadequate parents. But the unforseen that was referenced above would be issues that make make an agency say no, not the USCIS. If you are out of worktemporarily due to injury or illness, it does not mean you can no longer parent a child.
China doesn’t know how many babies will be abandoned at any given time, this sure didn’t stop them from having an IA program in the past. They could always open up the other orphanages and release a small amount of the 2 million children in orphanages. If things are so questionable on their part, they should set a quota or somehow otherwise limit the dossiers.
When you say you think the wait will stabilize at about 16 months, is that just your personal guess?
September 30th, 2006 at 8:23 pm
I just got this link, it is a video of just what Kristinian was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGEPjFfP5TQ&eurl=-
September 30th, 2006 at 8:42 pm
Oh, no, I’ve seen that video before..
BEWARE – it’s a weep on the keyboard one.
September 30th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
I was writing a post earlier and deleted it because it was very discouraging. The 24 month wait rumor was a gut wrencher. I’ve been reading posts today trying to get some peace with this situation and I wanted to thank Kristinian for her perspective. I also just watched the video. Wow. thanks somewhereoverchina.
I still don’t like the extended wait but for now, I’ll take the peace.
P.S . What are all you “older” folks thinking? I’ll be 49 early next year and wrestle with the “age thing”. My dh (47) and I are healthy but “poop”, I’m getting tired of this ride.
Thanks to you all and RQ for your info.
LID 12/5/05 for #2
September 30th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
addyrose–I would look into the Ethopia program. The babies are younger and the wait not nearly as long. If I had not already cleared the ppwk room I would switch programs now. I do not believe I will do China in the future due to the nauure of this wait. When we started the program we were told it was still the 6-8 months wait from log-in to referral. Three months into that wait it was extended to12-13 months and now there is all the rumors about 18-24. I need a stiff drink!
September 30th, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Grover, My LID is also 12/5/05
September 30th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
Grover, I am 33 now but may be 49 by the time I get my referral!
September 30th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
If the new “new normal” is roughly a week or 2 of referrals every month, then the wait will never stabilize. It will go to infinity. The wait will only remain constant at its current value if and when they get back to referring a month of LID’s every month. The wait will only decrease if they do more than a month each month. And if there truly are more dossiers logged in each month than paper-available babies, then there is no way they can even get back to doing a month each month, which means the wait will never stabilize. If this is truly the case, I wish that the agencies would start saying it. By continuing to predict stabilization (at any number of months/years) without any grounds for doing so (unless they know something the rest of us don’t), they’re setting up a huge number of people for disappointment.
September 30th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
Kristinian- I think the birthmother of our daughter from China just hit puberty. Thats how long I think our wait is going to be!
September 30th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
wickedwitcheast
I have been reading these posts with wide afraid eyes. Your last post made me laugh. I needed that.
DTC 8-17-06…..I wish I knew our LID!!!!!
September 30th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
wickedwitcheast,
ROFL!! I like your sense of humor…definitely a “must-have” fashion accessory for all waiting parents!
September 30th, 2006 at 10:49 pm
I am so thankful for this site and honestly, during our entire adoption process (LID 4/06) I feel this is the only source of realistic information (rumored or not). Our agencies main website explains the process of adopting from China and states the wait is currently 10 month from DTC. Once you pay the thousands of dollars in fees to the agency you are given access to a section of the website for members only. Here the wait currently says 14 months. I am pretty certain at this point the wait will be much longer. I feel completely scammed by our agency and despite the ever elusive CCAA, I think agencies know we are headed for serious problems with the wait, but also know if they tell people the wait could be two years plus, people will look elsewhere to adopt. For China only agency this would be cause for big problems. I think the best interest for the CCAA and for agencies is not the best interest for us. I feel that the agencies and CCAA will never be honest and I never imagined this process would turn out to be such a nightmare. We are families with hopes and dreams and to have to suffer through this guessing game is torture. I dream of the day we can finally hold our daughter in our arms and bring her home, but for now we are stuck in the seemingly never ending wait.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
Thank you Kristinian for the larger perspective. I think I read somewhere that birthmoms usually ‘abandon’ their babies within hours of giving birth. As it pertains to my first adoption, my SW told me that my daughter’s birthmom kept her baby for about a month! It is probably the most gut-wrenching thing to leave a newborn, but imagine having a 9+1 months bond with your child? With the 2nd adoption the wait is so much more difficult because like most of you, our agency “tricked” us by giving us such a false sense of hope…and told us the wait is 4-6 months!! With the first adoption, our agency (a different one) was very honest…and said it wll be quite the WAIT…LONG, LONG, LONG…so I didn’t anticipate anything…and didn’t feel disappointed…because no one made me any false promises. We can agonize …and we will over the ‘mishandling’ of information pertaining to wait times…but at the end of the wait…where there is warmth , light and happy baby…it is truly worth it. – mind you my nerves can not take this roller coaster ride any longer…and we are going to ‘finish’ our family with 2 children.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:05 pm
Addyrose:
We started the paper chase in July — told a 12-13 wait.
After reading this website and looking at the math, my DH and I decided to change. I’m not a patient person at all, I would never be able to wait the 2 years and probably would just throw in the towel and our money away. We’ve decided to adopt from Guatemala. A big rumor of them stopping adoptions the first of the year was out on Thurs or Fri but it turned out to be just that, a rumor. It really freaked my out , but now I’m at peace with our decision. The only negative of a Guatemalan adoption is the cost. We will have to pay $200 for a new I-171H and $300 for the amended home study, but we would’ve paid for these any way with the extended wait times in China. We figured the almost $11,000 adoption tax credit would help defray the expensive cost of a Guatemalan adoption.
I wish you the best in your decision.
Thanks for your lovely comments Kristinian
PS I’m still going to keep this website on my favorites and see how everyone is doing. Congrats to all the new referrals.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
BTW.. …NOT at all in keeping with the tone of messages. We just received agency word…wait “around 14 months” …and they predict a speed up by CCAA’s year end…Nov-Dec. No wonder we get so discouraged!
October 1st, 2006 at 12:06 am
Thanks for the change in perspective – no matter how hard this wait is for me, I can’t even imagine what my future child and her birthmother will have to go through.
Good to be reminded….
October 1st, 2006 at 12:18 am
SpeedupSpeedupSpeedupSpeedupSpeedUP!
October 1st, 2006 at 1:48 am
Grover – I’ll tell you what this ‘older’ parent is thinking. We’re LID 11/05 for dd #2 and requesting a 4-7yr old. Lord willing we’ll be back in line (after the mandatory wait) for dd #3 and asking for a 10-13 yr old. These older kids can sure use homes too.
October 1st, 2006 at 3:05 am
We too were given a 6-8month wait when all our paperwork was completed. By the time we were approved it had gone to 8-10months(which should have been now). By the time we were LID it was raised to 10-12 months, with an update by our agency 2 months ago….12-18mnths.
Do we hold our breaths onemore time and see if its raised again? I bet this will be the case. The number of dossiers being supposedly submitted, far out weighs the number of children being referred or as we keep being told -available.
I question why they haven’t officially placed a quota system in place……or do CCAA know that just maybe they are about to speed up again.
I also have to wonder whether the CCAA will start to look at the overall numbers of children going to various countries. Could this be the reason there is such a mixed bag of time lines starting to emerge? They will start ignoring LID’s and split countries up. Only just a thought.
October 1st, 2006 at 8:11 am
RQ- I’m not sure if you have already given this information, but I’m wondering historically, what has been the longest wait time for the China program?
October 1st, 2006 at 9:09 am
Thank you all for all your comments. This is such a hard decision. When I started I had no doubt of where my daughter would come from as God placed it in my heart. I know we all have our stories and this is mine.
My husband and have talked about adoption for many years and had decided to start the process. He had to go away on a trip and I started doing all the research from different countries. I took a break and went to the store. While in line at the deli I saw a mother and her beautiful baby girl. I started to talk to her to find out she had just come back two days before from China with her new daughter. As we talk her baby smiled at me and put out her little arns so that I would carry her, and at that moment I knew God was talking to me through that baby’s eyes. The mother said I was the first person she had done that to, and that she would have let me carry her but because of the bonding issue she had been told not to. I understood and all I needed was her little smile.
Now, as I read all the rumors and hear of all your painful waiting. I start this journey in fear. I’m not a spring chicken
at 47 and my husband 48, but as I start to think maybe Vietnam my heart still tells me China. So ladies, I guess I will start the wait along with all of you, and I know God would not have pointed me in this direction if it is not what he intended for me. Thank you all very much for your advice, but I guess I knew all along what I have to do, even if it means I will be in my fifties when I get my daughter.
October 1st, 2006 at 9:25 am
Kristinian – thank you for the most upbeat post in this entire thread. I know the wait is long and frustrating and we had hoped for our daughter this summer and it will probably be closer to next summer. BUT – we aren’t blaming anyone. This is not our agency’s fault or the CCAA’s fault. This is just the risk of intl adoption that we accepted when we made this choice.
When we started our paperwork in July 2005, the wait was 5-7 months. That was the current wait – THE TRUTH. As the wait started to increase, our agency reports on what the current wait is which is based off of what it currently is – not what they are guessing it to be. A good agency is not going to speculate to the wait in their literature to new parents. I don’t like reading posts where people think their agencies “tricked” them in telling them the current wait. Our agencies have no control over the wait. If you feel your agency is tricking you and taking your money, than you are with the wrong agency. Everyone should feel comfortable with their agency.
Also – to my knowledge, you do not have to redo paperwork more than twice. I believe you can let your paperwork expire and wait until you are closer to referral and then update just once.
We need to remain more upbeat and positive about our decision to adopt. This 24 month thing is just a rumor – that’s it. The CCAA didn’t post on the front page of their site saying “all referrals are now 24 months”……so until that happens, I’m going to continue to be patient.
October 1st, 2006 at 10:50 am
Hedge, I was thinking the same thing as I read through this thread. I’m as frustrated as anyone with the extended wait (just had my LID-anniversary on Friday), but I definitely don’t feel like our agency ‘tricked’ or ‘scammed’ us. I don’t think they’re always great about communicating with us, but when they told us the wait was 6-7 months when we started, they were right, and had no reason to believe otherwise. They may sometimes have bits and pieces of information that we don’t and that, for whatever reason, they can’t or won’t share with us, but I do think they were as taken by surprise but the lengthening wait as we all were.
October 1st, 2006 at 11:19 am
Hedge,
I would also like to say that I am also very frustrated and disheartened by this thread. When we were DTC the wait was still at 6 months…then we were LID…right after, and I mean right after we were LID the wait began creeping further and further along. (We will have our one year LID anniversary in just a week.) It is not the agencies’ faults that the wait has been extended. These people that work at these agencies are all human beings and cannot predict the future. My thoughts are probably going to get me moderated, but here goes anyway… Sorry RQ!!
When you decide to become embroiled in IA, you take a multitude of risks. It is a very unpredictable process, kinda like pregnancy. Unfortunately, there is no real timeline for adoption like a pregnancy. People should really research this process before becoming invested emotionally, spiritually, financially, etc… I can’t even fathom changing to a different country at this point. I know that my daughters are in China.. Even though, we aren’t supposed to discuss religion, I will say that for me, I know that God has my daughters in China and leave it at that.
I also know that my daughters’ birthparents are dealing with a pain and despair that must be horrific.. leaving our precious daughters where they will be found quickly so they will be happy and healthy for the rest of their lives. I will always be indebted to these amazing individuals that have done something so unbelievable. Given birth to my gorgeous, wonderful girls…
I have lost a child and I can’t imagine the pain that these men and women endure when they leave their children behind forever. I know that I will hold my daughters soon!! :-) Yes, the wait is agonizing, yes, the paperwork renewals are $$ and a pain, BUT, my daughters are soooo worth this aggravation and inner turmoil I feel. The CCAA is doing what they have always done… be closemouthed… I would love more info, will that happen?? Probably not, but I will still be hanging on until I get THE CALL!!
Sorry,so long..
Claire LID 10/10/05
October 1st, 2006 at 11:47 am
For those of us who got started in the spring and summer and fall of last year, I don’t believe our agencies were being dishonest with us. They had no idea the wait was going to change this drastically. It is not their fault, so we should not be upset with them for the wait doing this.
However, I do feel that it is dishonest to just say ‘the wait is currently 14 months’ to prospective families right now. I believe they are obligated to report that the wait has grown from 6 months to 14 months in the course of a year and that there is every reason to believe that the wait could possibly continue to grow at this rate. Unless, of course, they know from the CCAA that the wait is not going to do that, but if they know this then they should let their current clients know this, and they have not. (Well, a few have, but then others are saying the opposite.)
October 1st, 2006 at 11:52 am
Oh, and one more thing. I believe that many of you are mistakenly believing that all children are abandoned due to the one child policy. In many, many cases the children are abandoned because of an unwanted pregnancy by a single woman. Abortions are free if you are in your correct province, but if you’ve gone elsewhere to get work and you aren’t registered in that province then you do not have access to free family planning – so no birth control pills and no free abortion.
We are told that in areas with lots of migrant workers (sewing shops, toy factories, etc) the orphanages tend to have a lot more babies.
October 1st, 2006 at 12:09 pm
I’m currently paperchasing. Since I’d been reading this site for awhile before I signed with an agency, I already knew that I was in for a very lengthy wait. A couple of months ago, my agency was telling people 14 months, but that they expected it to increase so they are pretty honest about it. I know that Vietnam and Ethiopia are options, but dh is more comfortable with China, and this is something we’ve talked about doing since we first started discussing children. I read about the life these children will have while I was a college student, and it changed something in me forever. This Chinese adoption might not work out, and I know that. All I know is that if I don’t try this, the regret will be a lifetime regret. This is worth a few thousand dollars to me.
October 1st, 2006 at 12:10 pm
For those with children who feel frustrated waiting for #2, 3 or 4 stop go hug them, take them to the park, play a game of catch, watch them practice their piano, help them get through their homework and when doing this, remember that on this gloomy east coast Sunday there are those who are without child who wish we could do all of this with our children, but we cannot. Remember it is okay for you to be frustrated and I am not saying you can’t, but when you speak how horrible it is for you remember there are a lot of people here who are a lot further behind the 8-ball
October 1st, 2006 at 12:35 pm
Wunone16 – I just read this to DH and you couldn’t have said it any better……its frustrating for all of us, no matter how many children…….but for those of us that are sitting here years and years without having a child, it is that much harder. I gotta think it will be easier to wait once we have the first one home and have the joy of finally having a child with us.
October 1st, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Hey hedge, thanks for your kind words.
October 1st, 2006 at 3:56 pm
wunone16:
Couldn’t agree more.
Of course parents with 1 or more children long for and desperately wait for their new child – but hey – what about us who have none at all?
This has been up for discussion – and might I add very angry and upset discussion – on some if the adoption forums I frequent.
I do want everyone to have their beloved children from China – but I can’t help but being a bit jealous and a little selfish thinking it’s not really fair that people with no children have to wait as long as people with children.
(Before anyone starts hacking away – please note that I fully comprehend the fact that adoption is for the best for the child and not for “justice” amongst prospective parents or making peoples lives better.)
Anyway… the thought of waiting another 24+ months makes me sick to my stomach.
//Kattzilla
DTC 9/21/2006
October 1st, 2006 at 4:14 pm
Hey Katzilla, first off I want to go on the record and say that ALL are entitled to adopt and my point being I wish I had a little one to provide an escape from the empty feeling one gets as the wait continues to get longer. I know for a fact I would not be online right now if I had children. I am reminded of a saying my mom used to say about the old woman with a ham under her arms crying because she did not have any bread. Moms/Dads get out there with your children and I am sure the more time you devote to them the less of a burden this wait will be for you. As for me it’s the NFL, Yankees and my work (how exciting) and the hope that the CCAA will get things running faster (fat chance).
October 1st, 2006 at 5:07 pm
Yes RQ. Let’s talk a moment about prospective parents who are recently DTC or LID. Many agencies are playing a very dangerous game with these folks — whether they mean to or not. I reluctantly share our own story as an example. DH travels internationally a great deal and is responsible for negotiating international agreements and fostering relationships between the U.S. and other countries. Because of this, we chose an agency that is respected by China, the CCAA, and consulate staffers — and gets high marks for its work on behalf of both child and parents during the in-China phase of the process. We thought we’d done our homework. It wasn’t until the very end of our paperchase that we stumbled across RQ’s site and a few other sources that pointed to a potential wait-related problem. We immediately contacted our agency for clarification. The agency said it would not speculate on wait times and would only verfiy what the wait was for its last batch of referrals (12 -13 months). Being first-time “older” parents, we were “very” upfront about how we would need to seriously reconsider our options if there was a good possiblity that the wait could stretch beyond 18-24 months. The agency’s response could best be described as “vague” with a bit of “coynish” thrown in for good measure. They threw out comments like: “Well, if things start to speed up, you’ll regret not sending your dossier.” All we wanted to hear them say was something like: “CCAA is going through a rough patch, and based on their performance the last 12 months, you could be looking at a very long wait, but we’ll do what we can if you choose to put your hat in the ring.” How hard could that have been? The episode really creeped us out. We then told the agency — who at this point only needed our dossier fee in order for us to be DTC — that we were going to think about it for a couple of days before sending the fee.
Now I need to tell you that my profession affords me access to some fabulous research assets. I showed the referrral data to our resident statistics guru who said that if the future is anything like the past 13 months (too many dossiers-too few available children) We’d be lucky to get a referral in 3 years — unless there is a significant change by China/CCAA in its IA operations.
I then got a crash course in the workings of the non-profit world from our non-profit experts. I was told that some agencies run like well-oiled corporate machines. Others are much less sophisticated. My experts’ best guess is that agencies were not prepared for an “extended” slowdown and don’t know what to do with or tell folks like me. They’re probably praying there’s a correction in the referral process soon. But RQ, unless things start to speed up, it would be wise for agencies to rethink how they handle new clients, paperchasers and recent LIDs.
So — do I feel like our agency took advantage of us? I’m honestly torn on that questions. DH and I thought we had the right contacts and resources at our disposal to avoid a situation like this — silly us. I can tell you that it definitely took a lot of the joy out of the process.
And if you’re wondering if we sent our dossier fee — I’ll just tell you this: There’s a doll shop near where we live that always has beautiful window displays. In the window a few weeks ago was a gorgeous Asian babydoll — with pigtails and wearing the palest pink dress. (The woman who owns the shop keeps them in stock because there are a lot of local families with daughters adopted from Korea and China.) Well, the hard-boiled media type that I pride myself on being burst into tears right in front of that window. I can’t say if it was faith or foolishness — but I sent the dossier fee the next day.
October 1st, 2006 at 5:10 pm
wunone16 – When you were a child did you want your mom tagging along when you played with your friends? I’m guessing not.
I will give my daughter the space she needs to grow into an individual. I will not smother her because of my own personal needs at the moment. Parenting is about doing what is best for your child, not requiring them to stick around so they can meet the emotional needs of their parents instead of playing with their friends.
The fact that some of us already have a child does not mean we ache any less for the child we do not yet have.
October 1st, 2006 at 5:14 pm
Wunone16
I hear you!!! I totally agree, it is so much harder to endure this wait without already having a child.. I wouldn’t be online either if I had a little one already. Maybe once in a blue moon but not as often as I am now, obsessing about the wait and wondering if I ever will be able to say I’m a mother:(
October 1st, 2006 at 5:23 pm
Ok I can see this getting really ugly. Let’s stop this conversation right now about who is more deserving to get their children first.
Sorry Rumorqueen but I don’t agree with your views.
I don’t think parents that already have children even come close to feeling the sadness and aching in a childless parents hearts.. Of course we all deserve to be parents very much.
There is just no comparrison there at all.
I also don’t find it smothering to spend time with your child. Of couse they will still have playdates with their friends, etc and have time to enjoy their childhood to the fullest.
When growing up I looked up to my mother and did all kinds of fun things with her.. I always felt loved and never felt like she was smothering me. I wouldn’t have had it any other way.
Don’t want to offend but please let’s change the subject, I am getting steamed and don’t want to argue!!!:(
October 1st, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Smother is a rather harsh word that I did not mean to imply. Taking an interest in what your child does is not smothering. I appreciate all you do here Ms. RQ but I feel that if I had a child it WOULD be easier for the wait. That’s my opinion and as I see from some responses others share it too. My mom did let me play on my own but found the time to see my sporting games, go to a school function and play doctor if I banged myself up and never did I feel smothered.
October 1st, 2006 at 5:54 pm
How on EARTH did this turn into a competition?????? I think we ALL long for our children no matter what the circumstance. Good Grief! This reminds me of me and my husband arguing over who had the worse day. We just keep going round and round…and nothing really gets proven. We BOTH had a bad day..period! No one has the right to speak for anyone. Can it be proven that ones pain is worse than the other? Nope! Is there really going to be a solution? Nope!
October 1st, 2006 at 6:15 pm
All that have children remember what it was like anticipating their first, but few, unless they have lost a child, who don’t have children yet have any idea about what it’s like to have children and wait for your family’s next addition. Already we know that we’re separated by having or not having children. Tell me WHY on earth we’re going here?!
I have a little bit different perspective than RQ, although I think she has a really good point about clinging to the children we have now, and I agree with her–it is not our children’s job to console us or be stand-ins for our adopted children that we’ve already committed to. By the way, I have TWO, and coincidentally, I have two points to make:
1. Why do you feel the need to assert that you are hurting more than someone else? Is that productive? What’s right about it? Does it help you or the ones you’re passing judgment on? I acknowledge that it may be nothing more than the way you “feel”, and that’s legitimate. You can’t help how you feel, but some feelings are not necessarily right to continue on with. That’s where a personal decision comes in as to how you’re going to continue on in your views of others and their circumstances.
2. When I was pregnant with my third child (yes, I am one of the fiends in front of some of the childless in line!) I was on bedrest for 3+ months after going into preterm labor at 20 weeks. (This followed a miscarriage of our second baby, by the way. In other words, we have two living children.) I can tell you that, had we lost our third baby, I would not have been consoled on any level by the fact that we had another living child. I wasn’t when I had my miscarriage. For some of us, we are as committed to our future adopted children as we were to our biological pregnancies. I can honestly say this because I have been pregnant. If something went wrong with this adoption process, I would have the same intense feelings of loss as if I had a biological miscarriage.
I cannot completely understand how those of you anticipating your first child are feeling. I am not in the same place as you are. I would never presume that you aren’t hurting as bad because of something rediculous like “you’ve never had a child, so you don’t understand what it’s like to love one”. It is simply a moot point because the reality is that we’re all longing. We all have, for whatever reason, been led to adoption as a calling to grow our families. I ask that, as those of us who already have children support you in your wait and endeavor to empathize with you, please have the courtesy to do the same for us. We should all be on the same team. There’s just nothing to gain from passing judgment about people’s worthiness to adopt a child. It simply isn’t something you personally have control over. If it’s your opinion, well, that’s not something anyone can change but you, should you choose to do so.
You assume that those with children are not hurting as bad because we have something good in our lives to “distract” us. I would be willing to wager that even those without children yet have something positive to focus on and put your energy into. That’s the key to life in general. There has to be contentment with PRESENT circumstances for anything to feel right. Because I can promise you, life will not be perfect after you have a child. It’s still hard, it still hurts (in new and deeper ways), and there are days you’ll still be desperately sad. For one of my dearest friends, that desperate sadness is because even though she is adopting, she still can’t bear a biological child. She accepts this sadness, does not harbor bitterness in her heart and counts her blessings.
By the way, we’re adopting SN. So you can rest easy that my family is not in “your” line.
October 1st, 2006 at 6:17 pm
Well said, 3tsmom. There is no resolution because no one can presume to say that they are in a worse situation. Why would anyone want to?!! Ugh. I haven’t been this frustrated in a long time! I’m logging off for now.
October 1st, 2006 at 6:18 pm
Bio child/children vs none we have had this thread before. Aren’t we all enduring a tough wait? Aren’t all our hearts aching? As RQ has nicely stated above I think sums it up.
The road we all journey starts at a different beginning and also will end differently. Some share these moments more freely than others. Each of our paths is ladden with different challenges, winding , hills, valleys and rivers. We then all each have different support systems, friends, husbands, partners, our own mothers to guide. We all have different homes in which to pass our time, work places, and social activities. Some will stuff on chocolate, comsume copious amounts of wine, gain weight, lose weight, write journals, sew quilts, join forums, or write to our child we wait so desperately for. Others pray and are guided in spiritual ways…….but at the end of all of this, our children will also be different, from different provinces, and will have had different carers.
But out of all of this…….the only consistent comparison is we are all wanting and needing to be mothers & fathers…whatever the reasons and whatever the head count in the family already. Nothing will squash those incredible primal feelings of needing to nuture.
October 1st, 2006 at 6:18 pm
We have an almost-seven-year-old adopted son. After going through the inability to get pregnant and then the adoption process, yes, I think I know exactly what it is like to be childless and desperately want to be a mother.
It took a long time to finally be in the position to adopt again. Now, with this incredible wait, I find myself reliving those same feelings I had before we had our son. Does having him make it easier? In some ways. For example, he can keep me busy and keep my mind off of things. But having one child does not fill the hole in your heart for the one you are missing. Why does it take so long to become a mother? Why do I have days when this is so hard that I am either ready to give up or find another way because this just hurts so much? I will stick it out because she is in my heart and soul and to do anything other than wait is just not an option.
I agree with 3tsmom — let’s not turn this into a competition. We’re all hurting too much to turn against each other.
peace,
LID feb 06
October 1st, 2006 at 6:20 pm
My whole point is that no one can say their pain is worse, and I’m not really sure why anyone would want to try to prove such a thing.
We all ache for the child we desperately want to hold in our arms. I’ve been childless and aching and now I have a child and I ache. I’ve been in both places, and both hurt. It’s rediculous to think that one hurts less than the other.
I can assure you that I and my child play and cuddle plenty, but I also give her time to go play with her friends, and time that she and her friends go to her room and play without me hovering over them. My daughter is older and no longer wants mom hovering around all of the time. For me to require that she stay around all day so I can have her company would be selfish on my part. We do family activities where the family is together, but she also has time away from mom. Kids grow up and start to want some of their own space, it’s what they do.
Ya’ll can probably guess when she’s grounded because then I’m not around on the computer as much. Heh.
October 1st, 2006 at 6:34 pm
PEACE!!!! One and all and sorry to have touched a nerve…I was just trying to get the point across that sometimes things are said here that can and will touch a nerve…why am I being condemned…when it was something said by someone else here that touched my nerve. Am I not allowed to have my nerve touched? Frustration is all that it is…not a whoa is me competition. I was just trying to get across the sadness I feel that if China shut it doors to adoption right NOW…you would still have your children and I would be left to find another country to paperchase. So please understand MY frustration. Hey if I had a child I would be apple picking and spending a lot less time on here.
October 1st, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Okay, let’s get back on track with the sucky wait time issue. We have only been LID for one month & I am already dreading the next few months to see what unfolds w/CCAA. However, when friends adopted in 03 they were told 14 months & received their referral in 9 !! Clinging to the hope that if it sped up before it certainly can again. We chose a China only agency and since we are already $8,000 vested, as well & emotionally invested we cannot change countries at this time. However if I had known wait times could go so long I think I would have pressed DH more to go w/ Guatemala. I just wish they would tell us something. We were diagnosed w/unexplained infertility, so no answers there to why we cannot conceive, & now no answers here to our wait time. Just feel flustrated all the way around !!!
October 1st, 2006 at 7:17 pm
One last word. I didn’t want to say it earlier because I wasn’t sure how to say it without it coming off the wrong way, but I still feel I need to say it and I’ll just try my best to get it to come out right. So, here goes: Having a child in your life will not “fix” whatever you think it will fix. If you think it will suddenly make you happy then I fear you are setting yourself up for PADS.
When you get home from China with your child, you will discover you are the same person with the same problems, only now you aren’t getting any sleep. That’s when I think a lot of people hit PAD. The adoption didn’t fix what they thought it would and they hit rock bottom.
This is not the only reason people go into PAD, of course, but I believe it is one of many things that helps throw some (not all) people into it. You can read more about PAD syndrome here:
http://www.adopting.org/pads.html
Yes, a child will keep you very very busy for a couple of years. But then they go off to school and make friends. They make friends in the neighborhood, the friends come to your house some and they go to their friend’s house some. When the friends are over at your house you can still often engage them in some fun things, but when they go to their friend’s house you are still alone with your husband (or, if you’re single, just alone).
I am online a lot because this blog has grown so big and I need to keep an eye on things. I’ve found ways to get on it at least ten minutes or so every couple of (awake) hours on most days. I’ve been offline since my last comment because my daughter came home from playing, but she’s in the bathtub now and I have a few minutes until she’s out of the tub and we lay down together and talk about her day and read together a little. She’s already picked the book she wants to read tonight “Just add One Chinese Sister”. I know that we will both cry tonight as we read it together, and it tears my heart out to see her crying because she wants to go get her sister NOW.
Funny you mention apple picking – our family did that yesterday and it was great fun. We bought apple butter at the orchard and had it with our breakfast this morning on some of the baked goods we also bought at the orchard yesterday.
But, my husband and I did that before we had our daughter. It’s not something that we could only do once we had a child. We’ve always gone to get fresh apple products from this orchard and picked some apples while we were there. So, I say go apple picking NOW, don’t wait.
October 1st, 2006 at 7:51 pm
My wife and I have been happily married for over 13 years. We have been involved with each other for 17 wonderful years. The only problem we have had except for an occasional toilet seat left up and general guy laziness issues has the inability to conceive and start a family. We are in the rare case in which we both have some issues so we never got into the blame game. We do not think the baby will be the end all be all of problem solving but we are ready to move on to the next phase of our relationship starting a family. We have been in this phase for 10+ years. In the 10+ years we have remained commited to one another and have done it all: apple picking, wineries, romantic weekends, trips across this great land of ours so we appreciate the advice but understand this been there, done that have the adult sized t-shirts due to our lack of children. We no we will lose sleep and our time together will be compromised but the type of stress we can certainly survive due to the fact of our survival of the infertility stress and now this IA stress. We live in an area abundant in apple orchards and sometimes feel like the 5th wheel surrounded by families and couples young enough to be our children. RQ trust me when I say this, with the Yankees in the playoffs, I will have a nice diversion from the wait. After that, girls basketball season starts and I coach an awesome bunch of young ladies and that is another great diversion. My wife and I love each other immensely and both of us know our lives will change but we will be strong and get through it together. The only PAD I think we will experience is hopefully a trip to the airport launching pad for our trip the China
October 1st, 2006 at 7:54 pm
I agreed with the initial post about how I believe it would be different to wait if we already had a child/were parents. I think the wait is probably equally frustrating if you have no kids or 4 kids……..I think the feelings just may be different – not greater or less, just a little different. My DH and I don’t even have #1 yet and we are already talking about the wait for #2…..our desire to have them home and the wait it will take to get them will be just as great……and we will be just as “entitled” to our #2 as folks who are on their #1.
It does “seem” that if we had our sweet baby here at home to play with and tend to every day, we would spend less time dreaming about what it will be like to start a family. We aren’t adopting to fix a problem, we are adopting to start a family and once its started, it seems that it would be different to wait for each new addition…..than it would be to become parents for the first time. But, hey, we don’t have any kids now…..so I have no idea what it feels like to have 1 kid or 10 kids…..all I know is how it feels to have none – and its tough to wait – but that’s life, so we remain patient as to not drive ourselves crazy.
October 1st, 2006 at 8:05 pm
What many of you posting about the pain of the wait for your first child don’t seem to realize is that many of us struggling with the wait for #2 were in your shoes already too.
And I’m sorry to say the wait stinks, weither for #1 or #2 or #100. And for me at least, part of the pain of the wait is watching my daughter wait too.
And I highly doubt that you will have no computer time once you finally become parents.
October 1st, 2006 at 8:27 pm
esiyesees
October 1st, 2006 at 8:29 pm
whoops – something went haywire……..waitig for meimei….you have a good point that I didn’t think of – watching your child wait would be super tough – good point!
October 1st, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Just read this thread…
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you saying this shouldn’t be a competition.
Many of us who do have children have had them after sufferring through infertility, miscarriages, and incredible heartache.
To those who do not yet have children, we do feel your pain and we know that your comments come from a place of grief and were not intended to hurt anyone else.
For all of us, the important thing is to remember that we are on this slow boat to China together.
(I would propose a ‘group hug,’ but that might be difficult, so instead I will just say that all of the waiting families, whether made up of 2 people or 6, are in my thoughts and prayers. I really hope that we each find whatever we need to get us through this long wait.) :-) to all…
October 1st, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Apparently, it stinks so much that I typed “weither”.
Yipe.
October 1st, 2006 at 10:42 pm
Sometimes when I read this site I am overwhelmed with how spoiled we all sound – like children who want their prize NOW and how dare anyone not comply with our wishes. I believe adopting a child from China is a privilege, not a right and that the CCAA can do anything they like and they do not OWE us explanations. This is the world of international adoption.
And for the record, I am a single Mum to one child from China who has recently learned that my file will probably be returned due to unacceptable health issues. Am I heartbroken? YES. But bitter, no. I have been blessed with the most amazing, wonderful child and I will be forever grateful to the CCAA.
Oh yes, and to say my pain is less or more than anyone elses is ridiculous – having a child to focus my enrgy on is most defintely a God send and I truly feel for the childless waiting families right now. I remember the first wait well – it was during the first big slow down of 2000/2001 and it was absolutely painful.
Telling my child she may not get her sister will be horrible – one would think that after almost a year since LID, I would be in safe territoy…. not so.
There are no guarnatees in international adoption.
October 2nd, 2006 at 12:34 am
My absolute favourite thing about this site is how supportive everyone is of each other – knowing that we’re all in the same boat, feeling empathy for everyone else. There is very little “us versus them”, or divisions between singles and couples, older and younger, bigger-boned and skinny-minis, etc. In the usual RQ refrain, the first and only rule is “Let’s be nice”.
October 2nd, 2006 at 2:51 am
hi,
rq are someone else
can you explain me something
if it’s true about the ccaa wil take three monts for one month
it’ll take 2007 to do 2005
it’l take 2008, 2009 and 20010 to do 2006
so the wait will become 4 year or do i see this wrong
evanston
October 2nd, 2006 at 7:36 am
Hi all
Going back to the original thread re the wait…
My big issue with this is that things have slowed down so fast, starting in the autumn of last year. That simply doesn’t “FEEL” right. Yes there are fewer babies (perhaps NSN) now in China, and yes there is increasing domestic adoption BUT these things tend to happen GRADUALLY…not all of a sudden the way it has happenned. WHICH is why
I honestly believe that the CCAA/someone in charge are controlling the flow out of kids and the decision to reduce it was made last fall. This may well be due to the upcoming olympics, it could be due to “face” that the powers that be don’t want China to be the easiest place from which to adopt.
So what is my point? Guess it is that forecasting forward is truly like throwing a dart at a dart board. Until we know what the CCAA want the wait to be, we won’t be able to forecast at all. If they want it to be 12-14 months, then things should even out/speed up slightly as at the rate they are going we are going to be at 15 shortly. If they want it to be 24 months, then they will continue to slow down even more.
I’m with you all..we’ve an early nov 05 LID so I understand the frustration. What we need to find is a good source inside the CCAA who we can believe but sadly I don’t think we can.
RQ what happenned to your good source in China of several months back?? Have they ever emailed you recently?
October 2nd, 2006 at 10:28 am
Hi there. I’m new. Y’know, one of those “lurkers” who finally thinks she has something to say, even if it’s something not very interesting, funny, or worthwhile.
My problem is that I’m envious. Very happy for people most of time, but still envious.
Envious.
Envious of women who started their families exactly when they were ready.
Envious of people whose IVFs worked.
Envious of people with LIDs earlier than mine.
Envious of people who chose domestic adoption, Vietnam, Thailand, Guatemala, Kazakhstan, or Ethiopia – who are now home with their babies or will be long before I have my little girl.
Envious of people whose perfect match is with a SN child and who’ll have their children before I have my little girl.
Envious of people who have more than one route to adoption going at the same time.
Envious of people who have been referred or will be referred twins.
Envious of people with pools in their backyard.
Envious of women who are younger, skinnier and prettier than me, whose nipples point to the ceiling.
Envious of rich folks.
Envious of Angelina Jolie, Jennifer Aniston, JLo and Nicole Kidman.
Envious of people who truly love their jobs.
Envious of people with unwavering spiritual faith.
Envious of people whose dogs actually come when they’re called.
And envious of people, waiting for a referral, who have kids already.
My thoughts are irrational and unreasonable! But sometimes we just have to acknowledge our dark side!
Anyway, thanks RQ, for giving us this forum. It’s great fun – even when the rumours are painful and when discussions get heated.
Jackie
October 2nd, 2006 at 10:31 am
Pavella,
I wanted you to know how sorry I am that health issues might disrupt your second adoption. I really hope that doesn’t happen and that you are able to adopt a second child.
Your attitude about the whole situation, the wait in general and your particular issue, is awesome. Kudos to you for understanding the fact that we all have to count the blessings we do have, and not spend precious time upset over the things we cannot control.
I really pray that things go ok for you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts…I am sure you are a great mom to that beautiful little girl. :-)
October 2nd, 2006 at 5:12 pm
Hmmmm…
We’re LID 3/6/06. The wait IS VERY frustrating. I think what makes it particularly frustrating is that increased wait times in the past had something “wrong” that could be fixed. This time it seems as though there is no “fix.” Very difficult. Very frustrating.
Many times during the past 8-9 months while I’ve watched the wait increase while simulataneously doing the “stats” in my head, I have thought, “This would be tougher if it were daughter #1.” We waited 6 months for her referral, but the total time from start to finish was 19 months.
The wait is tough and frustrating. I’m glad I have dd #1.
October 6th, 2006 at 2:37 am
I’ve been lurking and this is my first post.
I can’t thank RumorQ and the rest of you enough for your candor. It’s not what we wanted to hear, but it’s what we needed to hear.
We have had our heart set on adopting from China for the longest time. Based on a number of factors (friends currently in the pipeline, an agency that is actually straightforward with us, and the information I’ve learned from this site, to name a few factors at the top of my list), we have changed to another country’s program (same agency), but we are checking the waiting child lists DAILY for China as well as other countries.
Ironically, one of the main reasons we opted for international adoption over domestic was that we wanted to avoid the “dear birthmother” lottery and trade a longer wait and a higher expense for opting out of the emotional roller coaster. AS IF!
We persist, but how unnecessarily heartbreaking this process is.
It seems to me that the focus of international adoption is clearly moving from Asia to Africa, and that many agencies are not going to be able to afford to continue operating if the Chinese program is really slowing down the way it appears to be. When you couple that with some of the bizarre attitudes about trans-racial adoption that are gaining traction around the world, the result for children without families (and parents aching to adopt them) is nothing short of tragic.
God bless all of you, I say. This not easy.