New Requirements
I long ago reached the point that I dread making these posts. This is an incredibly stressful subject and there is often the shoot the messenger mentality around it. I’m just putting together what is “out there” into one place and trying to make sense of it. I will say that the latest information seems to have moved past the rumor stage, as several agencies are implementing the changes for their paperchasing families.
Let me say at the top that it appears these requirements are only going to apply to new applicants.
First comes word that the CCAA has asked agencies to no longer allow a family to write a Letter of Intent (LOI) for a waiting child if the family has any major issues. These apparently include having any past criminal record, any health problems, and any mental health issues including bipolar and depression.
The above is just for the SN program, everything below seems to refer to both programs.
Next comes word that anyone with a BMI over 40 will be required to have their doctor give his assessments of the affect of their weight on their blood pressure, cholesterol, mobility, any other health issues (like diabetes), and on how their weight affects other aspects of their daily life. One agency has this posted on the open part of their website and lists it as a CCAA requirement. Several other agencies have told their new applicants and paperchasing people who are overweight that they must have something along these lines in their dossier, but those agencies are not explaining how they are determining who must do this and who must not.
We are also told that net worth must be positive overall. One agency states that net worth must equal at least $10,000 per person in the household. Another agency states this number also includes all children, including grown children who have moved away.
I do not believe that the NSN changes represent hard and fast rule changes. I believe they represent some guidelines being refined.
The CCAA has several layers of rules – those being the rules that are hard and fast rules that must be followed and then the guidelines that are open to a “case by case basis” kind of attitude. The CCAA can pretty much do as they please where guidelines are involved, using their best judgment. I think that the NSN changes represent them narrowing some things down that are guidelines but not changing any actual rules. I’ve looked through both their rules and their requirements pages and I do not see any changes in either. That being said, if they are convinced that these new guidelines are needed, or should have been allowed as rule changes, then they may be pretty strict about them. Only time will tell.
It is quite possible that the SN changes follow these same lines as well and just represent guidelines that are being tightened and not actual rule changes in their eyes. But those changes are very puzzling to me. Eight to ten months ago it sounded like the CCAA was trying to push as many people towards SN as they could. Is it possible that they now realize this was a bad plan and that there are some children who are suffering as a result? I am hearing of more disruptions than I’ve ever heard of, mostly involving SN children. A lot are happening in China and the family doesn’t even leave the country with the child, but many are happening withing a few months of returning home. Very, very, sad. Perhaps the CCAA is trying to reverse this trend.
One thing not mentioned recently has to do with parents in a wheelchair. I am told that the CCAA is now denying almost everyone in a wheelchair, with very very few exceptions.
A few points:
- One agency has the NSN items on their website listed as China requirements. Some other agencies are starting to quietly require these things on a case by case basis.
- The SN items are coming from two agencies who are wording them very differently but who are saying the same thing.
- Within the past six weeks a family sent a LOI in and were denied because the CCAA said they did not have enough net worth. The family did not share what their net worth is, only that it is positive.
- I do not think we’ve seen the last of this subject. I’m also beginning to think we will never see an official notice from the CCAA and we are going to have to just piece things together to figure out what has been changed. However, it appears the agencies are well aware of these changes and have already implemented the changes for their paperchasing families.
- To end on a good note, everything seems to be pointing to singles being safe for at least another year.
November 11th, 2006 at 8:31 am
I think the point is that this process…albeit one of the more stable…is also very fluid and changable. Adoptive parents entering the China program will be much better off if they accept that nothing is ever set in stone…and that the rules change and change again. The “old regime” in China still shines through when it wants too :)
Thanks RQ for your continued perspective and insight. I am still amazed how often you are right!!
November 11th, 2006 at 8:43 am
These are the “changes” that have been bouncing around for some time, so we shouldn’t be too suprised. It’s sad to hear the increase in disruption with SN children. Very Sad.
November 11th, 2006 at 8:47 am
First I would like to thank you for all your hard work and efforts to keep us all in the loop. We really appreciate it!
I would be interested in hearing about “disruptions”. I did not know that it happen at all and did not think it was even “legal” to do once the adoption was final and we were back home.
Any details about this why? how? etc. It would be most interesting from a educational standpoint.
Thanks again!
November 11th, 2006 at 8:48 am
I have been told that they include your life insurance, furniture, automobiles, etc. when calculating your net worth. Is that correct? Is it the value of your life insurance on death, or any cash value that it may have? This could be the end of the road for us if the life insurance is not included….
November 11th, 2006 at 8:56 am
for our adoption paperwork last year we had to state what our life insurance policy values were for this year and last year on each of us. So it is the policy value you report such as 250,000 or 500,000 what ever it is that you have purchased. Also you can count the insurance that you may have through your employer. My dh for example has 8 times his salary in life insurance that is offered thru his employer. That helped significantly.
November 11th, 2006 at 8:57 am
By “disruptions” are you saying they give the babies back? What does it mean? Please explain.
November 11th, 2006 at 8:57 am
I would also be interested in the disruptions from an educational standpoint. Just wondering if there were more needs than the adoptive parents were made aware of. I recently went to an informational seminar on developmental and health needs with internationally adopted children. It was excellent and made me aware of several issues I had not been aware of. I had not heard of the disruptions until this point.
Also the new unwritten regulations…do you think they are applying immediately to any new DTC or will start with the first of the year? What about someone changing from NSN to SN, do you think the new regs will apply to them as well? We are switching to SN hopefully with the next list our agency receives.
Thanks, RQ!!!
November 11th, 2006 at 9:27 am
Okay…sorry to beat a dead horse, this is just so upsetting to me! I was looking at the forms the adoption agency sent me, and they ask for our life insurance information but it is not included in assets while calculating our net worth. Am I reading it wrong? I wonder how important the net worth is…if income is well over the requirement. We have 3 children already, and haven’t owned our home for very long so all of this comes into play for net worth.
November 11th, 2006 at 9:44 am
Life insurance is not an asset unless it is the kind you can cash in before you die.
momto5 – the blog post states that agencies are not allowed to send in a LOI for families with who have the listed issues.
As for disruptions, there are families who are given their child and who do not leave China with the child. This can be catastrophic for the child as in most cases the CCAA will not put them back on another list. I am not going to speak of specific instances on the blog, but I will say that there are some cases where the child was exactly as presented in the paperwork and the family realized this was not something they were prepared to deal with after caring for the child for three to five days. There are also cases where the family was just upset that the child did not respond to them as they thought the child should so they decided not to return home with the child. Very, very, sad situations. And situations that one would think could be avoided with more education for the families ahead of time.
Once you return from China if you decide you can not care for the child then most often the agency will try to find a family in the states that will adopt the child. If the agency cannot find someone then the child becomes a ward of the state and goes into the U.S. foster care system.
November 11th, 2006 at 9:44 am
Wow – this feels so strange for me as a single to actual see new rules that I meet. How set in stone are some of these requirements? I can imagine with net worth and an early 30′s couple that you could have a couple who met in law school or med school so have a huge student loan debt and therefore a temporary negative net worth, but are high earners and should be positive net worth within a few years. I wonder if they look at the big picture and compare net worth to earnings so that high earnings could potentially offset negative net worth if it is student loans, etc. Sounds as if people with a higher bmi are okay if they can show through their medical reports that they are in good health.
November 11th, 2006 at 9:50 am
sasey1026,
The form we filled out and sent DTC listed our life insurance policy and income, but our net worth did not include these things. On our agency’s form our total liabilities were subtracted from our assessts to get our total net worth. Are you DTC yet? If not, I would check with your agency. Maybe you can arrange those items on your sheet so that your net worth reflects inurance and income. It seems as though others have done this. I am trying to have a good day, but I am down now as well. It is difficult when we have all poured our hearts and souls into this to think we may not make it past review. We have been LID for 5 months now and are on pins and needles until we make it past the review room! I have a minor health issue, but have seen WC listed with the same condition I have, so I am thinking the CCAA might not deem it as minor!
November 11th, 2006 at 9:52 am
Thank you RQ- I know you are already stressed about the wait- and have your good and bad days. I can only imagine how much more stress you have knowing that you are going to report these “new requirements” and the affect it will have on those either waiting or paperchasing. I appreciate what you do.
I am not really surprised that there are going to be new requirements- I guess we have been hearing it for months and hoping it untrue. I do hope that they do not affect those already DTC. However- I do imagine that they may be more stringent in the review room overall- if they are taking a harder stance on requirements. I am saddened to hear about the disruptions though. A sad situation for all involved and I am sure nothing that anyone involved ever would have wanted.
Thanks again…
November 11th, 2006 at 9:53 am
All I can say is “wow”. This thing with the $$ is disturbing. Possibly including grown children that have moved away in the $10,000 per person??? Gee whiz!!!! What a way to start the day!!!
Thank you, RQ, for sharing this! I guess we do need to know that all this is a possibility.
His,
Mrs. U
LID 9-12-05
http://www.makingahouseahome.blogspot.com
November 11th, 2006 at 9:55 am
I will say it again:
These new requirements are not supposed to affect anyone already logged in.
Agencies aren’t supposed to send in a LOI for families with major issues, it is never said that LOI’s already accepted will be denied.
If you are already in process these items should not affect you.
The few things that are affecting those already in process involve those in a wheelchair, those with organ transplants, and people who have had certain types of cancer.
November 11th, 2006 at 9:58 am
Sasey1026-
Check with your SW or agency if you are really questioning this form. They will definitely be able to set your mind at ease. Even with our life insurance not added to the form, we passed review at the CCAA.
Our SW told us to list 0 for life insurance since it is what the value is at death. Dh has 2 policies for himself, and one for me, and I have one for myself as well. I think it would have been nice to add ours on the form, but, I did what I was told!! ( For once in my life, anyway) ;p
We just did an update since we just refiled our I600A and even though our income increased significantly, that life insurance line being left blank again, stunk.
RQ- Great job as usual! These possible changes don’t sound much different than what we’ve been hearing about for the past few months. I do hope policies will change for SN to help prevent disruptions! It is very sad when it happens.
Claire
LID 10/10/05
November 11th, 2006 at 10:10 am
Unfortunately we have not started yet. We have been thinking, talking and researching for two years now, and we finally felt we were in the right place to move forward. We are supposed to attend an information seminar tomorrow, and maybe they can shed some light on this for us. We have a lot of life insurance, but it has no cash value since it is term insurance.
November 11th, 2006 at 10:21 am
I really do encourage all to attend seminars or classes that deal with international adoption. It can help to prepare for the unkown. I recently went to hear Dr. Laurie Miller speak. She was excellent. She specializes in children adopted internationally, so she is very familiar with medical terminology used from various countries, which isn’t alwasy the same as the terms we may use with medical, emotional, etc. conditions in the States. She does have a book, The Handbook of International Adoption Medicine, which I highly recommend to everyone considering international adoption. It is a wealth of information, inlcuding not only physical needs, but emotional, attachment issues, etc. for all children IA, not just sn. Thank you all for being a support network, and especially RQ for the work you do for us!
November 11th, 2006 at 10:28 am
I am not overly concerned about the new rules or tightening of existing ones.
A BMI of 40 is pretty high. Weight is an issue of long term health in many ways. I wonder when they will add smoking? It is not seen the same way in china I know but, research would suggest otherwise.
As to net worth, I have no issue with that at all. It sounds like they are basically stating that your net worth needs to be one years minimum salary based on their requirements.
I am glad that they are not ruling out singles because that really has no bearing on ability to raise a child. Income, net worth and significant health issue indicators do however imapct the probability of being able to raise a child.
It is frustrating to see things keep changing though. Makes a person a bit nervous to say the least.
November 11th, 2006 at 10:48 am
Life insurance can be considered part of your net worth if it is a whole life policy with a cash value. If you have term insurance, it won’t count, because term policies have no cash value. However, if you have a whole life policy (or aren’t sure what kind of policy you have), contact the company that issued the policy. They’ll tell you what kind of policy you have and, if its whole life, its current cash value.
On the subject of disruptions, I don’t think the new requirements will have much of an impact. When disruptions happen, they occur for reasons other than net worth or BMI :(
November 11th, 2006 at 10:49 am
It seems that China may be going to more of the model that Korea follows. If the situation is that they do have less children for IA and they are seeing more disruptions then, it would be logical for them to be looking for ways to decrease the demand while at the same time finding what they believe to be the best home for their children. It sounds like this includes what they see as setting the bar higher for health, wealth and perceived ability to care for a child. I think that while this is really upsetting for some potential adoptive families, it is good that they are trying to have the best interest at heart for those children that do leave China through IA. If they are telling the agencies up front for paper chase families then that is a fair way to start to phase this in.
November 11th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Here’s a link to a BMI calculator, if you want to check:
http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/
November 11th, 2006 at 10:51 am
This is a very sensitive issue for folks with any of these issues. I am sad for all involved in the disrupted placements, especially the child.
Let’s not judge what makes a suitable parent, and which possible restrictions are legit. We all have our shortcomings, and we’re in this together.
November 11th, 2006 at 10:52 am
Being the geek that I am, I went out to yahoo to find a BMI calculator.
Lean to Fat ratios used to be used but it appears that BMI is weight to height ratios. There are also factors for unhealthy lifestyle choices and medical conditions that change the numbers slightly. Ignoring all that, this is what I found with the calculator I searched for. It will give you an idea anyway
5′-0″ 205lb
5′-2″ 215lb
5′-4″ 230lb
5′-6″ 245lb
5′-8″ 265lb
5′-10″ 275lb
6′-0″ 295lb
If these categories do not fit you well, go to yahoo and search on “body mass index” there will be calculators available for you to punch your stats in.
November 11th, 2006 at 10:55 am
anxiosly waiting, I dont believe that income or net worth has any significance in raising a child. I grew up pretty poor and I was also one of five. I remember that we did not have many things. We hardly ever went out to eat. We thought it was a treat to go to a convenient store. My parents would take us to a 711 and we would get one big Slurpee and have to share it. Did I feel deprived NO!! I love and value these memories and I never in my childhood ever felt poor. I had a fabulous childhood.
Now My husband and I have no money concerns. He is a doc and I am a teacher. We have all that we want and need and then some. I would not be a different parent if I did not have money. My children do not have a lot of things. I do not want them to value thing. They are being raised the same way that I was raised and I have money.
I believe that you can have a wonderful family money or no money. Poor or Rich!!! I would be doing the same job as a parent that I am doing now it does not matter how much money we have.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:01 am
I think that net worth and some medical issues could make it harder to care for a special needs child. It sounds to me like this is the direction the CCAA is coming from.
Extra surgeries and therapies can be very expensive, even if the family has good health insurance. I think expecting that a family has some assets as well as good income is probably a good expectation in many (but probably not all) cases.
I also think that the CCAA already does not fully understand depression. Combine this with the rumor that I’ve heard of many of these disruptions involving a mother on antidepressants, I think the CCAA is trying to stop disruptions with this new requirement. Are all people on antidepressants going to disrupt? Certainly not, but if most disruption have involved this (and this is one of the rumors) then that could explain this one.
It sounds to me like they are trying to minimize some of the extra stresses that can be there – finances and pre-existing tendency towards depression. I agree it will rule some people out who would be excellent parents, but I can also kind of understand how they are looking at it, too.
The BMI thing is for all families, not just SN families. I completely do not agree that fat parents can’t be good parents, and it sounds like they aren’t saying this either. It sounds like they are just wanting to make sure this is someone who is capable of parenting a child to adulthood. I don’t think this one has anything to do with disruptions. I also don’t think having a BMI of over 40 is going to rule you out, I just think they are going to want some extra assurance from your doctor that you are fit enough to be a parent for a couple of decades.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:25 am
Well, we are already the parents of three wonderful, happy and healthy children who have everything they need and a lot that they want. I am a social worker which pays the bills, and my husband makes excellent money in the automotive industry so our annual income is well above the requirement (even with our family of 5…hopefully to be 6). Our net worth, however, is much lower than the new requirement because of student loans, car loan, a brand new mortgage and because I took nearly two years off to be home with our last two children. Having a lower net worth has little to do with one’s ability to raise children. I’m sorry…that comment stung a bit.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:27 am
I stated this would not be true in all cases. All I’m saying is that for a special needs child who may need a whole lot of extra expenditures in order to help him or her, I can see why the CCAA would want a family to have something to fall back on if tragedy hit.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:33 am
Sorry Rumor Queen, I understood you were referring to SN (but that doesn’t just apply to SN does it? It is a rule for everyone?).
I was responding to Anxiously Waiting and this comment:
“I am glad that they are not ruling out singles because that really has no bearing on ability to raise a child. Income, net worth and significant health issue indicators do however imapct the probability of being able to raise a child.”
Sheri
November 11th, 2006 at 11:54 am
If you’re an SN child, this is POSITIVE news: ‘We’re going to do what we can to be a little more careful about who we match you with, to decrease the liklihood of them rejecting you outright in China or (worse) in a foreign country, or of being in a family that, however loving, finds themself in the awful position of being unable to care for your needs.’
And in some ways, the guidelines protect adoptive parents, too.
Since last May, with the big push-on/emphasis for SN adoptions by CCAA and agencies, I’ve been concerned, because I grew up alongside inter-racial special needs adopted siblings, & the extra stressors on families are massive. I’d caught wind of some of the China SN adoption ‘disruptions,’ too. Tightening the guidelines is a pretty swift response by CCAA never thought I’d write ‘swift’ and ‘CCAA’ in same sentence!) and clearly their goal is a solid positive placement for the child. A disruption isn’t just sad for all concerned, but absolutely horrific and traumatizing for a child who has had no choice in any of it, who has already been abandoned & rejected once, and who now has all that trauma ripped open again in a very memorable circumstance – plus, as RQ says, their door to a life as a loved member of a family shuts forever. The same is not true for the family who returns home – without a child, yes, and having gone through a wrenching experience, but the majority will have some other parenting choices open to them. And the entire experience was of their choosing. Not so for the kid!
So even if the CCAA is going overboard (& it doesn’t seem to me they are, here), if that ‘overboard’ lowers the risk for SN kids, surely it’s worth it. Even if the tighter guidelines change the options for some otherwise excellent parents.
Perhaps a fairer determinant of stability would be a mandatory SN educative program and assessment at THIS end (sort of like what they do in Holland for all IA parents), something that might include actual SN caregiving experience. The CCAA doesn’t have the ability or budget to educate us waiting parents about the SN child’s needs, and lots of people do not want to educate themselves about the harsher realities of it, so the only thing the CCAA can do, really, is tighten guidelines. Even if it’s a crude, one-size-fits-all solution.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:55 am
Is there any info out there on the agencies that are piloting the new SN “format”…for lack of what else to call it…
November 11th, 2006 at 12:04 pm
I guess the way I am reading this is that these are changes paperchasing families will need to discuss with their agencies. Those of us not yet in/or out of the review room…according to RQ…we may be “grandfathered” in…only time will tell. At least we are getting heads up to try and correct some things if possible…ie. weight loss, money matters, ect.
We are ok with weight…and good to go on Net worth…Health issues…good to go. However my challenge is getting our income back in line…which in my opinion is a bigger issue than net worth.
I see all sides to this. China wants the best for its children…and its program. In their eyes…they must have a reason to believe that these issues have been causing a problem. I do believe it should be a case by case situation. I guess their reason for taking net worth to be so important is that even if your income is great…you could lose your jobs…and that is exactly what happened to us (income cut in half)….our net worth is over 150,000 we could sell cars and the house and tap into savings but we don’t want to do that…however it is nice to know it is there…if needed.
As for weight…I was in the weight loss business for over 7 years…a LOT of health issues come with being over weight. I helped thousands of parents lose weight…but never once was the reason to lose weight…to be able to “parent” better. The number one reason…”To still be around for my children and grandkids”. You can be overweight and HEALTHY…and skinny…and have clogged artaries!!! (spelling?) Again…like RQ said..they will ask for the medical info to back that up. I don’t think they are saying your can’t adopt if you have a BMI of 40 (+)…just that they need to make sure you are going to be around for a long time…
I guess the best way to look at this is if you were going to adopt out your child…just think how strict you would be on who you would choose to parent that child.
I am so sorry…I don’t mean to get on here each time and type a book….but that is how I feel about all of this.
November 11th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
I’m sorry if I am repeating these questions, I don’t have the time right now to read through all the responses.
1. Are these new “guidelines” or “rules” applicable to SN adoptees only? Or is it an across the board type of thing?
2. Determining net worth. How is this done? Based on your income and assets held or just your income? Also, what number do they look at if it is income based? Your gross income or net income?
Again, sorry if these questions are repeats, I just need to know what new paperwork we need to start assembling.
Thanks!
November 11th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
I agree with three blue steps. As a parent of a child with special needs I have been concerned that people are not educated enough to know what it means and what it takes to raise a child with special needs. As RQ touched on, the therapies alone can be a huge beast to bear, even with insurance. These expenses are often long term. The stresses that go with raising a child with special needs can be overwhelming. But you have to handle it, there should not be a choice to come home with the child, then change your mind. That actually makes me sick.
Sorry to go on but this was a personal subject. I hope all those that choose the SN route (and I admire and respect those that do) get an education of what it means. I hope that they do not go SN for a faster referral timeline. If thats the case, I see how the outcome is not good for anyone involved, especially the child.
November 11th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
FWIW, net worth is just what it sounds like- you add up all of your assets- value of your house, car, ira’s, retirement accounts, savings accounts and subtract all of your debts including mortgage, loans and credit cards. I think that CCAA and agency’s have a separate minimum income requirment.
There are two kinds of life insurance, term and whole life. Whole life is the kind that has some value at the end. Most people are advised to have term life insurance only. Most group policies (work benefit) are term policies. Once you leave your job (or stop paying premiums) you dont have it anymore.
I think some agencies require life insurance. I only have life insurance through work but i do have vested retirement accounts that would pay my heir’s a pretty penny.
November 11th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
I am a mom to a child who has had a very serious and lengthy illness, and who is now special needs (hearing loss, physical problems) due to the aftermath. Even with good health insurance, the costs can be staggering. We were able to avoid bankruptcy only because my son qualified for a state progam for “medically fragile children” – but the requirements for that are very hard to meet. I think many people do not understand the financial aspect of parenting a child with major medical problems, and I wonder if the agencies do a good job of educating potential parents beforehand.
November 11th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
One thing I’ve always thought was kind of wierd, is that there is no drug testing involved in the pre-adoption paperwork. Shoot, to get most jobs and things now you have to have drug tests, and random ones after that initial one. Why doesn’t the USCIS or CCAA require drug testing as part of the home study or physical??
November 11th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
I think that some good points have been made about the changes with special needs children. The wait has gotten so long for NSN that many people are looking to SN for a child quicker. I would venture to guess that some of these people might not have gone that route if the NSN program were moving faster. I too had concerns about the SN program being pushed. I think that even an educated person in this area is in a tough position. You see a picture and have words on paper. That is so different than the reality of the child when they are depending on you as their sole provider of love, care and meeting their needs. I think peoples hearts are in the right place and with good intentions they go into the SN program but the reality is too much for them. I do feel very badly for the SN child that is returned in China but I also have to give the adoptive parents credit for making that choice before that child suffers more because the adoptive parents do not have the emotional resources or practical skills needed to care for the child. If they were to continue with the adoption some really bad things can happen with that situation. The risk for abuse or harm could be much greater in this situation. This is such a difficult topic for all of us.
November 11th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
Some of these new restrictions are no different than other country requirements.
Korea has weight restrictions. I several years back, just before Vietnam adoptions were closed (re-opened again), they had very STRICT requirements where mental illness was concerned. I know one lady, her husband suffered from depression had a terrible time with the authorities there. Her agency submitted her dossier, and there were never ending questions back and forth with the agency and the authorities in Vietnam. They eventually brought their son home. Before, we adopted our daughter from Haiti, we considered Vietnam, then it closed. One agency, who has been doing adoptions from Vietnam for years, sent us their application, and in very bold letters was
that they could not accept any applications from anyone with any mental illness. For our daughter we had to do a psychological exam as part of our dossier. I do know a couple of other countries also require this.
Our son, has been home with us now for 6 months, he is a special needs child from China. He had repaired cleft lip/palate. He is an absolute doll and total joy. Our agency did have 2 families that returned from China without their SN’s children. One knew what their child’s condition was and it was medically correct, but they chose not to pursue the adoption, and another family’s sn’s child was medically more serious than they knew.
I think, in my opinion, alot of people changed from NSN’s to SN’s because of the wait, this is what families revealed on forums. However, you really have to know what your limitations are, you MUST consider the children you already have in your home, your finances and the time you have to care for a child that would need extra attention.
Even, a healthy baby can come with demands that you didn’t expect. I know alot of families throughout the years that struggled with the demands of their newly adopted baby from China. Some babies can come with issues, especially those having been in fostercare. It just depends. It is like having a biological child, you just don’t know and there are no guarantees.
Some people waiting for TA’s with our agency believe that the recent adoption interruptions in China may be having an affect on the TA’s for SN’s. Who knows though?
November 11th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Not to mention a written and oral evaluation by a psychologist. Had to have those for work too. But not to adopt a child. Strange.
November 11th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
I have no problem with any restriction which is put in place to protect the children. The problem lies in the uncertainty. If the CCAA is going to accredit certain agencies and not others, I would take this to mean that the agencies which are accredited, have passed some stringent criteria. That being said why aren’t all agencies given the same set of instructions per se, in regard to eligibilty requirements? It would be easy enough to say – do you make this amount of money – how much do you weigh, do you have any of these health concerns? Depending on the answers you either proceed or are unfortunately ineligible. I would rather not even start the process than to be told at some point during review 7-9 months later that I was not eligible. That would be heartbreaking and totally avoidable.
November 11th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
I know that these regulations can upsetting to some adoptive parents. However we shouldnt look at this like CCAA is punishing or discriminating against us, they are just looking out for the best intrest of the children and you have to respect them for that.
I really do believe that because CCAA was pushing SN and due to the extended wait, alot of families thought this would be the quickest route to their child. It is unfortunate and tragic that it is, yet again, the child that pays the price. If CCAA is going to enforce these regulations, then I feel they also should require some sort of classes or training on the care for SN children. Remember folks, its all about the children and not about us.
November 11th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
I’m glad that so far there has not been an onslaught of “this restriction is ok but that one isn’t” posts. It seems to me that many people will have different views on the various restrictions based upon their own personal weight/bmi, net worth, depression medication history, wheelchair restriction, etc. It seems often the thinking is those that don’t affect us personally might be OK, those that might prevent us from adopting aren’t.
Having said that:
When reading the list of restrictions, I did what most of you probably did, went down the list checking them off. The one I have been most concerned about, weight, was OK with me, I’m a 38.9 –too high I know but still within the 40 (insert major sigh of relief here).
Although we are fortunate to not have it affect us, the one that I think could affect many families is the net worth. I will say it again, I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA –land of the $600k starter home. Requiring a positive net worth could completely prevent some financially very capable people from adopting.
Also, I totally don’t get how an otherwise healthy wheelchair bound parent who is married to a non-wheelchair bound partner is not OK but a single adopting is. I wonder if CCAA thinks that the non-wheelchair spouse is having to care for the other so wouldn’t be able to care for a child? I’m not understanding this. Does anyone have a plausible explanation?
Anyway, I guess CCAA can implement whatever rules they want, its their program and there are plenty of people dying to get in. I just hope that we who are logged in are truly grandfathered. I would have been disappointed if I had been prevented from applying but completely devastated if told I did not qualify now.
I agree, we’re in this together, we all want to parent these kids. I know there are going to be lots of really unhappy people today after reading the RQ’s post. Let’s continue to be nice.
November 11th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Waiting4agirl,
Net worth is calculated by adding up your assests and then subtracting from that your liabilities.
November 11th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Here in Sweden everyone who wants to adopt internationally has to complete a preparatory class before even starting the homestudy. It makes our process before sending dossier longer, but it’s totally necessary and very important!
(I happen to think a class like this ought to be required for anyone that is going to become a parent – in whatever way it be)
I wish for it at leastto be required for adoptive parents in all countries. Some people might get an eye-opener and realize that they are way in over their heads and decide not to proceed. Others, like us, found the class inspiring and wonderful and left us wanting to learn even more.
November 11th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
And one more thing – can’t help but being flabbergasted about how different things are here in Sweden, compared to U.S.A. – when for example adopting a special needs child, we don’t have to pay ourselves for surgery, health care or dental work. It’s free for children – all children in Sweden, up to the age of 18.
Guess our often dissed, “sky-high” taxes are doing something good anyway… ;-)
November 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
How are these guidelines going to effect people with a DTC Nov 06 – but not yet logged in?? any thoughts?
November 11th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Hi kattzilla
here in Holland it is just the same. You have to follow many calles to learn how to raise an adopted child and what to expect.
The health insurancy covers all operations, therapie etc for all children.
We seldom have any kind of disruption in holland
November 11th, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Hello all-
I love this site! Does anyone know what the lastest is on the review room? Is anyone in Feb or March being asked questions?
Also, RQ, can you do something on the ages of children being referred? I am curious to see how many times an older child has been referred when applicants asked for ayap? thanks!
November 11th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
thirdtimearound….
I agree that net worth is not everything. I have seen some very rich people who are very poor and don’t even know it.
I personally grew up very poor myself and my experience is not even close to as memorable as yours sounds. I am glad your parents could balance things and know what was important. My parents could not. I did not go without the absolutely necessary things, but there were no extras either. Unfortunately it took so much effort for my parents to keep things together from a financial standpoint that they had no time or desire to put the emotional and time effort required to raise a child in a loving envireonment. I existed as a child. That was it. I think that is why our perspectives are different.
I agree a child can be raised on little money. But not all children can. If you are lucky your child will be healthy if you are not then you will struggle. (I am not saying you personally). I do not think it is outrageous for the CCAA to expect at least a positive net worth. They want the children that they adopt out through IA to flourish. I also think that net worth should be measured against earning potential (after all we are not all at the same point in our lives and I know I struggled to get to where I am)
I agree one shoe does not fit everyone. There are more ways than one to be rich, and if low income can be balanced with the needs of the child then I see no problem. How does any agency measure that though?
November 11th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
I am OK with the new requirements. I am someone who these may be an issue for. I have a BMI of 45. I was DTC 9-29-06 and my agency had my doctor put a letter in my dossier about my physical ablilty while I was paperchasing this summer. While I am anticpating potential follow up when we are in the review room, I am still certain that we will placed with a child.
I know uncertainty is hard, but I think we need to remember we are not entitled to be placed with a child. Nothing in this process is a guaranteed. Yes it is a horrible thing to live with, but I believe we all knew this wehn we jumped onboard. Children are a gift. It is a present I hope to someday hold in my arms.
November 11th, 2006 at 2:53 pm
Our agency posted some new requirements on SN children with their new WC list on Friday. I was very disappointed to find out that I was not a candidate for a WC because I am on medication for anxiety and depression. I’m fine, not depressed, but the anxitey meds I take are listed as a anti-depressant. We even have a glowing letter from my doctor stating that I have been under his care for years and my ability to parent a waiting child or NSN child should not be under question. But, my agency said they could not submit a LOI for us. I understand, rules are rules, but it is upsetting considering that a SN child is something we were considering in the forefront. We have the means and ability to take care of a SN. I hope the CCAA does not start these regulations for NSN, I would hate to be this far into the process and spend this much money only to be denied in the review room. Only time will tell.
November 11th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Hi Katzilla, RQ, thewait and all the rest of you,
I just want to add re new regulations and requirements, that since some time, new Swedish applicants need to have 0-24 months. I have never heard of anyone ask for ayap before I read about it on this site. Is this common in the US and other countries? As far as I now babies matched to Swedish families are neither younger nor older than others.
November 11th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
… as far as I know …
sorry!
November 11th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
Okay, so let me get this straight. These new regulations only pertain to SN adoptions? So if you had any of the other issues you will still be able to adopt NSN?
November 11th, 2006 at 3:15 pm
The weight and net worth requirements apply to everyone, I believe.
November 11th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Just out of curiosity, if you are on antidepressants but have been for years with no problems, do they consider it an issue?
November 11th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Graciesmom, RQ’s entry at top of page talks about which requirements may be for SN and which for NSN.
Check out where she says:
“The above is just for the SN program, everything below seems to refer to both programs.”
At least these new requirements which have been in the wind for so long seem to be getting a little clearer. I wish a statement would be issued by CCAA so we all know where we stand……well, I can wish right?!?
Thanks so much RQ for shedding more light on this stressful topic. I feel better knowing something more concrete about these guidelines anyway!
November 11th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Just another thought…..was there anything more on lowering age limits of adoptive parents in your new info, RQ?
[I remember last time this rumor surfaced, lower age limits for parents were mentioned.]
November 11th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
Hi RQ, Swedish friends and Everyone else!
CCAA not stating clearly what rules there are is very stressful for everyone. Still, I’m thankful and think it really makes sense. It would be very unfair to compare my income and net worth with someone in the US. As Katzilla writes, my economy doesn’t affect the health care, medical care or dental care my child will have. It’s all free. Neither will I ever have to pay for any kind of education, from preeschool (6 and up) to university. I do pay for daycare, but only about 50-100 USD a month. I will also, as all parents here, be able to stay at home with my child for 13 months with 80% of my sallary. All this affects the child tremendously. The CCAA are well aware of the big differences in the economic systems of all countries they are cooperating with on IA. I think this is why they don’t want to set rules firmly. Doing so would give such different effects in different countries.
I think it is a bit strange though, the net worth having to be positive. I rent my home. That means I have no mortgages, which leaves my net worth positive (at least safe on that one! :-)). If I buy a home tomorrow I could have exactly the same monthly costs for that, if I put rent and mortgages together, but it would give me a net worth negative, at about -100 000 USD. Which would rule me out. Very very strange. Anyone hearing anything new about the Having to own your home rumor that was circulating some time ago?
November 11th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Mamman, I don’t understand why buying a home would put you in a worse position financially. If you buy a home you are increasing your assets along with your debts and surely your worth is calculated by subtracting your debts from your assets.
Of course, initially there are some extra costs involved and market value fluctuations might temporarily set you back (or increase the value). But I do not think you would be set back by something like 100 000 USD.
November 11th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
He he… *feeling VERY stupid*. Well well, I guess this is why I never engage myself in such things as buying homes ;-)!!!
November 11th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
I want to let you all know that disruptions do occur–but sometimes they are needed, and it is not helpful at all to those who are going through extremely stressful and difficult decisions to have families here in the States judging those decisions when they don’t have all of the facts. I know–I have been there. I traveled to China in September to adopt a child whose referral stated that she was healthy, but had been born with deformed ears. My family was prepared to deal with that SN–we also were prepared for severe delays, and possible autism, but we were not prepared for the truth of this child. She had diagnosed, but not disclosed, severe epilepsy with continual untreated seizures, and had resulting brain damage. She had no consciousness or awareness at all. Not a single family who travelled with us and saw her said that they could have brought her home. Her condition was way beyond what had been revealed to us, and since I had 4 other children at home, I knew that I could not properly provide the 24/7 care that this girl would have required for the rest of her life and still be the mother that my other children needed. The CCAA also recognized the obvious descrepancy between the child and her referral paperwork, and were wonderful and quick to refer us a different child while we were still in China. We have had both ends of the spectrum of responses–both support and complete criticism. I can tell you that the criticism cuts to the very core of my soul, yet I know that it comes from ignorance. Be careful to judge other families and what they are going through–we do not always have all of the facts.
November 11th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
colbylobrien – I would never even try to judge a situation like yours. Seriously, a horrifying decision with no right or wrong answer, especially when there are already other kids to consider.
I said I had no intention of discussing specific cases, but I will mention two of them here, just so you can get an idea of what I’m talking about.
One of the stories that came back to me was a family who was upset because the child’s head had been shaved and she no longer looked cute like she had in her referral picture. I have no problem judging that family. This child’s special need was Hep B, her special need didn’t even play into this decision.
Or the family who knew the child was deaf but had never considered that this would mean that she wouldn’t be able to hear them or take any direction verbally from them. I have no problems judging that family, either. By the family’s own admission, they had just never considered what this would mean in day to day life.
In most circumstances I will always say that I can’t judge anyone for making what has to be a worse than difficult decision that should only be in nightmares, but I’ve heard some absolutely horrid things and I have absolutely no problem judging that those families should never have gone into the SN program, and that those agencies should have done a better job of educating and preparing the families.
November 11th, 2006 at 5:51 pm
smalltown girl,
I had to provide drug testing in Fla for my home study.
AIDS, HEP, as well as recreational drugs: Barbituates, Marijuana, and others that I can not remember.
I had to do them twice because it took so long for my social worker to finish the homestudy my medical info. expired.
ADE
November 11th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
We will hopefully receive a referral before x-mas for a sn match directly from the ccaa. But we were also hoping to possibly adopt through the sn program one day in the future. We are good to go on most of the issues. We have good net worth and income (though I agree money does not make one a good parent, love does) and the country we live in has very good medical coverage. Weight wise we are just fine – DH worked so hard building our house this past fall he lost 25 pounds and now I think he’s a bit too skinny!! But Christmas food is coming for him :).
What I am confused about is the mental health regulations for adopting through the SN program. Is this if you are currently on anti-depressants or if you have ever had depression in your life time? I have only been depressed once and it was 7 years ago. It was not that serious and I recovered quickly and was only on anti-depressants for about a year. Our daughter had problems in utero and then they didn’t induce us when they should have due to hospital error and we were told when she was born she may have learning disabilities ect because of the complications, ect… and wouldn’t know for sure how much it had effected her until she was in school. Those issues I could handle, and I determined that I would be happy with each mile stone she reached. She smiled very early on, and I remembered crying, thinking she must be pretty ok to smile so early -and even more so, the first time your child smiles at you directly, it is so touching – I am looking forward to the first smile our child we adopt gives us!
However what was so stressful for me was when she started having failure to thrive at 2 months old and I couldn’t figure out why. She just refused to eat and stopped gaining weight. She didn’t cry though, she just wouldn’t eat for me. I was a young new mom and it was a very scary time as she was already born underweight. Finally after about a month or two she was seen by a specialist and they figured out she had GERD disease – painful constant regurgitating that burned the lining of her esophagus – she didn’t want to eat because it hurt her so much. We had to put her on medication to heal the lining of her throat. We elevated the head of the crib a bit and kept her upright for most of the time, carefully propped in her excosaucer, or in a swing. We kept her in an upright position while we fed her. Tummy time was painful for her so we didn’t do that. It stopped being an issues before she was a year old. Before she was diagnosed I was doing everything I could to get fluid down her. I was pushing fluid into her mouth with a dropper. To top it off my in-laws were just wretched towards me and my husband hadn’t learned how to set boundaries with them yet. I also had not developed the assertiveness that I now have. During that time I became depressed. But when I recovered I was trained as a peer support counsellor for new mom’s at risk for depression. My husband and I learned to set better boundaries with his parents (which they are still not happy about – but that’s just too bad – our marriage and kids must come first). We have been doing great for years. And before having my daughter I worked in schools with children with special needs for about 4 years. The SN’s we approved for our very minor compared to the children I worked with. Does anyone know the specifics of the mental health requirements? Do they rule out anyone who has ever been depressed, even if they are fully recovered for some time and not at risk for relapse? If any one knows more specifically what the rules are regarding that, and can share – that would be great :)
November 11th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
colbylobrien- what a sad position they put you in. I can’t imagine… Of course you wouldn’t be doing the right thing to accept a child you were not equiped to care for.
Blessings.
November 11th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
colbyobrien………..
OMG the decision that you had to make probably would have haunted me for the rest of my life. I do not say this as a judgement against you, I say if or how I think it would feel to have to make that type of decision.
My wife and I are considering SN, but are in the NSN program. We are watching the waiting child lists at our agency.
I did not go blind referral through CCAA exactly because of the situation you were put in. You are a brave soul to make that decision and even braver for sharing it.
I often have an opinion, but try not to judge because you are absolutely right. Unless you have seen things through their eyes, don’t even think you know what is the right choices.
I wish it were easier for the actual tone to come across in a blog message. Sometimes just the way a person forms a sentence can get them in hot water when their intent was so different.
Thanks for sharing.
November 11th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
By the way, our story does have a happy ending! The CCAA presented us with a choice of two different SN girls while we were in China, and we chose a beautiful three year old who is a true joy for our family. The decision we made to disrupt the first adoption was a horrible thing, but in the end, it was right for us. Our blog is at http://www.youbelong.net/colbylobrien if you would like to learn more about our journey.
November 11th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
colbyobrien~ what a hard situation to be in. I have talked with my husband about this type of thing happening. None of us really know how child is going to be and the surprise of severe special needs is something to talk about. To be honest, in your shoes, I would have done the same thing.
I hope that little girl is getting better care than she had been. Maybe you and her came together for a reason, who knows.
I am happy to hear that you were matched with another child while in China. Please know that noone is judging you. Certainly not me. As a parent to a special needs son, I can understand.
November 11th, 2006 at 7:43 pm
Although I have been tracking this site for a couple months.(RQ you are a godess in keeping my sanity) Our LID is July 5,06. This is the first time I have left a reply because I felt like I had something to say.
I first off would never ever judge someone, but I want to get my two cents worth in.
I have been working with Special Needs children for almost 12 years. Seeing and working with families who have a special needs child, they are stressed, it takes a toll on your marriage, it is a 24/7 job to say the least, it has an affect on your job as you are constantly taking time off for therapists appointments. Saying all that, it is unbelievable the rewards that comes from that child is truly amazing. Each milestone they reach is a hundred times more precious.
If you have chosen the route of sn programme because the wait time is faster, please do some research. I am going to say something that I don’t think no one has even touched on. O.k. here is a situation, say you are 9 months pregnant and you have just delivered a child and the doctor says “uh oh” and tells you your baby seems like s/he has down’s syndrome. You find out later that the tests come back posative for Downs. What do you do? Do you tell the doctor to put it back in and give me a new one? I think most people would grieve, and after that period, they would say o.k. here we have this beautiful baby that is ours, lets find the means and resources to deal with it.
I just want people to open their eyes that the expectation that they have about the adoption, may not quite be how it is going to go. Hubby and I chose the NSN and pray for a healthy baby. If it turns out that after we get her home and a year goes by and she shows signs of autism or any other special need, I think we would go through that grieving process, then pick ourselves up, and be the best advocate we can possibly be for our daughter.
I do not condem those people who have gone to China and find themselves in situations like colbylobrien’s. They were told one thing, and things went horribly wrong.
All this to say, if you are thinking about the SN program just because it is faster, please, please think if this is really the right decision for you and your family. If it is, great, more power to you. If you are on the fence and are not sure, please be really sure.
Those are my two cents, spend them well :-)
Hubby and are both very excited to be on this journey to starting our family. It is also really nice to be sharing our journey with you all. Having this forum as many people have stated, really is precious, as I am sure I would go bonkers if I was doing this without the support of our family and you all. I am sure you will be hearing more from me as time goes by.
November 11th, 2006 at 8:29 pm
Colby- I followed your family story while you were traveling in China and now that you are back. You are one of those that I just check in on. I think a story like yours illustrates why disruptions are not always clearly the wrong thing to do. I would hope that the longer all of us wait, the more educated we become on our expectations and challenges we may face.
November 11th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
I was in the travel group with “Colby” and, as she said, this was not a decision she made lightly. One point I want to mention is the need to be supportive of your travelmates. Our group included a doctor, a pediatric ICU nurse and myself, a neonatal nurse practitioner. While we all agreed and understood Colby’s decision not one of us offered advise until asked. When you travel you spend two weeks with someone, who may then spend a lifetime with a SN child. In the comfort of our own home we are all free to judge choices others have made, and sometimes (not this case) rightfully so. However, “Colby” was worried about how the group was going to react to her choice. In such a powerful moment your travelmates need to be a support, not an added worry. Just something else to think about before you travel.
November 11th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
We had a situation nearly identical to Colby’s (but a year before) and the dynamics of our group changed a lot. Our travel group was pretty quiet about what happened. A few were quietly supportive, but it was the single most horrible moment of my entire life and the trip was really colored from then on — we were all a bit somber. Only one family complained that they didn’t get in as much shopping & sightseeing as they would have liked because our circumstances demanded so much of our facilitators’ attention (several hospital visits, negotiations, calls to Beijing, US, etc).
An upside of the wait is plenty of time to contemplate & prepare :)
November 11th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Pandamom–
Thanks. That’s what I figured, I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t soley income based.
Colby–I couldn’t imagine what you went through. I am sorry.
November 11th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
I agree in not judging families with disruptions when their is clearly no right or wrong answer, or when severe needs are not made known to the prospective parents. I am, however, appalled about the disruption with the shaved head. We owe it to our children to educate ourselves on the “what could be.” I wonder how many of those kinds of cases the CCAA sees, and no wonder they are stepping up the reg.’s We all have a duty to be responsible parents to our children. There will be days when our children are not “cute”, but our love should be unconditional…Thanks for letting me vent.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:25 pm
Hi,
I only want to address those that warn those switching from NSN to SN that they need to be better prepared. It suggests that they might be the reason for the disruptions.
I personally know the two recent disruptions with my agency were people that went into the adoption as SN clients. Not only that, they chose children that had been on the WC list for some time (not part of some initial rush to get the “popular” ones) which means they had plenty of time to research the special need and become educated on what they might face. It is my understanding one family disrupted for no real good reason and the other had valid reasons.
I personally feel that people switching from NSN to SN are doing more “homework” before making that decision.
I do encourage ANYONE considering SN children to do their homework. Know about emotional, developmental and other delays. Know that some of these children have institutional autism as well as undiagnosed issues because in some orphanages in China these children are considered second class (after the NSN children) and were most likely neglected more than usual.
I honestly believe most disruptions could be avoided if people that are home with their children would be more honest about the challenges they are facing. I can tell you it hasn’t been easy for us but I’m very honest in my web site and when I speak with people face-to-face. I don’t discourage adoption, I encourage people to know their limits and consider if they are truly the right parents for a SN child. If not, I encourage them to consider other options.
November 11th, 2006 at 11:50 pm
RE BMI:
I just started the process… announced to friends and family that we as a couple were starting an adoption process from China, and were talking with agencies to decide which to use… and then I found out about possible changes with a BMI requirement, and I don’t turn 30 until March of 2007. I’m a BMI of 49 already on a weight loss program, down from BMI of 53. Husband is BMI is under 40. A BMI of 40 is a long way to go for me, but I have no complications from my weight except for some arch problems resolved with proper support.
A intake person from a large very established agency told me that their agency would reject any application from persons with BMIs over 40 KNOWING these requirements would come. Yes, hearing that made me cry and cry for days.
My agency of choice (before and after I learned of BMI requirement changes) just said… well, we don’t know what’s comming… but this change may very well come before your dossier submission. Keep on your weight loss program and we’ll see what’s happening this spring. But, you may want to consider one of our other wonderful programs from Vietnam, Russia, etc. that do not have pending BMI requirements blah blah blah. Sounds very realistic to me.
Today’s rumors give me lots of hope.
I wear a red thread bracelet to remind me of my goal. When I’m hungry and very frustrated… I look at the bracelet and concentrate on my goal of being a mommy to a very special little girl somewhere out there in China. Wearing the bracelet helps me stick with my meal planning.
November 12th, 2006 at 12:15 am
Thanks so much for taking the time to bring to light a difficult issue. You do so with such grace and wisdom.
If agencies cannot roll out classes or presentations to educate potential adoptive parents of SN children, I think our SW are capable of enlightening us. My social worker included a wine and cheese at her house just before she made our homestudies available. She invited a two of birth moms (different circumstances) who gave up their babies. she also invited a couple who adopted a NSN from China.
Each of them spoke about their experiences with adoption. It was hugely informative. I have never forgotten any of the speakers that nigh,t 3-4 years ago. …Perhaps, a number of parents of SN children could speak to potential parents. I think something as simple as this could shed the necessary light on the feasibility/reality of raising an SN child.
- We cannot lose sight of the fact that we really can’t just pay lip service, we really need to think of putting our children’s interests first.
Colby-You did good. Your daughter is beautiful. She has such a charm. I admire your courage.
November 12th, 2006 at 12:46 am
Colby – I just looked at your blog – you have such a beautiful family and your new daughter is DARLING. Thanks for sharing your link.
speaksoftly2me – GOOD FOR YOU on your weight loss! Coming down four points is a great accomplishment! Keep up the good work – we are all here to cheer you on!
Ziggy
lid June 6
November 12th, 2006 at 1:11 am
Colby~
Thank you for sharing your story. I read your entire journey from start to finish on your website. An unimaginable situation that turned out well. All good things to you and your beautiful family.
LID 9/26/06
November 12th, 2006 at 1:12 am
i heard that an adoption agency pushes singles to adopt. we met a woman with her adorable SN daughter, who did not seem very happy with her decision. Her daughter had a very minor birth defect.
I don’t think she checked out any adoption agencies, because when we compared notes, she seemed even less happy…like she was “had”. – we felt badly for her, because how can anyone make such an important life decision when information is withheld?
November 12th, 2006 at 7:21 am
Someone sent me this link discussing special needs requirements, where it gives “Basic requirements for adopters”:
http://www.china-ccaa.org/site/infocontent/ZCFG_20051009065100765_en.htm
The person who sent this says the CCAA goes back and forth with how closely they adhere to these things.
November 12th, 2006 at 8:05 am
And one more troubling bit of information. I am now aware that several overweight people have recently been asked to supply new information to the review room. These questions have to do with their weight.
So far, in all cases I’m told that the families were notified that they have passed the review room.
And their agencies have also told them that they now have a later LID.
I do not have specifics – I don’t know how much they weigh, I don’t know what their BMI is, I don’t know the specific questions. All I know is that they were asked to supply information directly related to their weight.
This throws into question my statement that this only applies to new applicants. It is possible this will apply to anyone not through the review room yet.
November 12th, 2006 at 10:17 am
Hi RQ
I guess this means that eventhough applicants think they are post-review, they can never be sure anyway….making a possible 2 year wait even harder (thought it couldn’t get any worse…..).
We have a february LID, and if we get any questions concerning weight, I promise to inform you, since such an information can help a lot of concerned applicants.
Fridahope
November 12th, 2006 at 10:57 am
Wow,
Colbyobrien, I read your post and I totally understand your situation. You did what you felt was right for your family and for the child you were referred. How can anyone judge that. You made a personal decision to the best of your ability. That’s all any of us can do. I’m sure it was very difficult. Thanks for sharing your story.
For the other disruptions RQ mentioned above, I hope the children find other homes that are much more suited to them and find families where they will fit in and who can love them. In a nice non-judgemental way – it almost feels as if the children left behind were the lucky ones in the situations. If that is the case – really what happened – that the parents left the child behind due to a shaved head, then I say lucky baby. I imagine they were referred another child? But I have to give tham a benefit of the doubt as it is second hand info – no offense RQ – As I trust your judgement, etc.. Same would hold true for the deaf child. Those parents were prob. not a suited to raise a deaf child. Shame on the agency that let them request a special needs child they were not prepared for. Makes me wonder if their motives were for a speedy adoption?
I personally know an adoptee that was raised by parents ill prepared for adoption and the outcome was not pretty. This child had no special needs but was always made to feel that they were second best by the parents and some of the extended family. The parents walked through the orphanage and chose the child, a boy. He was always reminded that they were actually looking for a girl, but took him instead. In later years he was dressed up several times in girls clothes and reminded of this. The story goes on and on, as you can imagine. Granted this was the 40′s, and the parents were nice people, just had no clue as to what they were doing. They should have never been allowed to adopt. The child grew up and later recieved some counseling which helped, but it’s hard to erase all of the scars.
November 12th, 2006 at 11:20 am
Another thing to think about SN is this. We adopted a 3 yr. old (domestic) nearly 17 yrs. ago, not knowing anything about his past, background…For 10 years, before he was diagnosed, he had SEVERE behavioral problems. I mean severe. Any child who has any kind of head, brain injury/problems is at risk for behavior problems. In deciding whether or not you can care for the medical issues/therapies, etc. – I would also encourage parents to do a lot of research in the behavior area, as this impacts every area of your life and the lives of other children, even to the point of safety.
I say this not to discourage SN at all. I think it is wonderful – and if we didn’t have to still deal so extensively with our son – we might go that way ourselves. Probably most of the SN children don’t have these kinds of problems – I’ve only heard of one myself. I’ve heard wonderful success stories through the WC program and I’m so glad there are so many people willing to go this direction and invest so much of themselves for these children.
I just thought I’d mention another area to research, based on our experiences.
colbyobrien – At our first homestudy visit with our 1st adoption, our SW talked in depth about your type of situation. She told us that at least one of us had to be prepared to be the strong one once we were in China. If we discovered something – and after more medical testing, etc. – we might have to make a decision like you did. This was a very serious point in her mind that we needed to be prepared about. We appreciated the information she gave.
November 12th, 2006 at 11:59 am
When we adopted our sn’s son, we just went sat down as a family and decided on what we could realistically handle emotionally and financially. We also have a beautiful daughter from Haiti to consider as well. We were told that a lot of people who went from nsn to sn’s did so because of the wait. The most in demand children were girls with very minor sn’s, like missing a digit on their hand and very correctible problems. They were usually the youngest and prettiest. When we adopted our son, it was pretty straight forward, now our agency’s sn’s program is far more intense with petitioning for certain children and a lot of hurt feelings, as the agency decides who gets to parent the most popular children on the list. Our son has repaired cleft lip/palate and is an absolute joy. We knew, as a family, that we could handle his special needs, and we really don’t consider it much of a special need at all.
I have been on adoption forums for about 8 years, and there have been many people who have brought home healthy babies who were later diagnosed with diabetes, genetic disorders etc. Just like us, when we have biological children, you do not know 100% if your child will be healthy. Nothing is a guarantee. I feel sad for those families that had to make the painful decision not to bring home a child due to misleading medical conditions, but not for those families who did not want their child due to frivilous reasons.
They do not deserve to parent any precious child from China.
November 12th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
RQ….I think we should hold a CYBER Baby Shower for you!!!
I will work on the decorations!
Sorry just wanted to “lighten” the topics…I understand the need for this information but if we could just have a few “FUN” breaks inbetween the “news flashes” I WOULD LOVE YOU FOREVER!!!!
Anyways…back to the baby shower…LETS DO IT!!!!
~Linda
November 12th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
RQ mentioned a family who disrupted an adoption of a child who was deaf. This is where pre-adoption education is essential. I am a parent of a child with a serious hearing loss. He has a cousin who is profoundly deaf. Between the two of them, I have learned a lot about heaing impairment. If the family trying to adopt the deaf child had been prepared and educated, they would have known about things like cochlear implants, ASL, auditory-verbal therapy, and FM systems, and they would have been feeling hope when they met the child rather than despair. If I were going to adopt a child who was profoundly deaf (and we considered it but are not for various reasons), I would spend the waiting time reading, meeting with specialists at schools for the deaf, getting the requisite evaluations lined up for when the child came home, and learning all about assistive technology. I think the agency should be responsible for ensuring this kind of education, and helping with it.
November 12th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
Does anyone know the converstion from pounds to kilograms since the required paperwork asks for kgs and NOT lbs? What are the weight requirements in kgs then?
LID 2/27/06 (Patiently waiting to hear about the review room process…)
November 12th, 2006 at 1:13 pm
I do try to lighten the mood up whenever I can. Remember this post?
http://chinaadopttalk.com/2006/10/29/sunday-night-cyber-party/
But what we do here is try to sort through the rumors. Sometimes those rumors are good, sometimes they are bad. Just as sometimes the facts are good, sometimes the facts are bad.
The fact is that when I started paperchasing the wait was 6 months from LID and now I’ve waited almost 14 months from LID and 15 months from DTC and could easily wait another two or three months. That’s not a very fun fact, just as many of the rumors are not very fun, either. And honestly, I’m still pretty afraid to get excited about thinking we might be close. I’ve thought we were within three or four months a few times before, too.
We aren’t here to have smoke blown up our skirts. We are here to try to figure out what is going on and what is going to happen.
November 12th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
As a single adoption applicant, I got very nervous when I heard that the CCAA would come out with new requirements at the end of the year. My absolute worst fear would be if the CCAA decided to cut off single applicant altogether!
But, to my huge relief, I choose to believe the rumors that have been buzzing the last couple of days that singles will be OK for at least another year. I’m fine on the other requirements – thank god!
November 12th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
RQ…I am sorry. Wasn’t trying to ignore the rumors and the fact we are ALL in for longer waits than expected. Just hoping we could have a break…but that is obviously not what this site is designed for. Won’t make that mistake again!
November 12th, 2006 at 2:41 pm
I agree, when trying to get to the bottom of rumors and in dealing with this wait, we need to be realists. Unfortunately, this long wait is part of our lives right now but we need the facts no matter how hard they may be to hear. I’m not saying that fun isn’t in order from time to time but I know I can count on the RQ blog more than any other source to give it to me straight up. I come here for the reality of things, for other’s support, adivce, and personal experiences and thanks to all these truthful and honest factors I feel I am much better prepared for the journey ahead.
P.nut
11/’05
November 12th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Kangr,
2.2lbs = 1kg
hope this helps
November 12th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
kangr,
1 pound = 2.2kg. You can do your math from there. Hope that helps.
November 12th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
In my various jaunts around the boards looking for rumors I’ve now seen myself referred to as a “joy stealer” twice. I’m not keeping the CCAA from doing a month of referrals at a time, and I’m not telling the CCAA what rules they should change. All I’m doing is trying to figure out what the CCAA is doing and what they are going to do.
I honestly do try to keep things as upbeat as I can, but with some of the rumors that come out it’s next to impossible to do that sometimes.
And there are times we get a “too good to be true” rumor and I find myself cautioning people not to get their hopes up too high until we have something a little more concrete. I don’t do that to steal people’s joy, I do it to try to keep people from riding the roller coaster up quite so high because that sudden drop can be painful sometimes coming back down.
And I continually tell people that if the rumors are getting to you then walk away from the computer and do something else. Even if it is only for an hour or two, do something that will completely get your mind of of this and hopefully you can come back to it in a better frame of mind.
As for me, I’m ready for some rumors about the next cut off. Preferably good rumors.
November 12th, 2006 at 7:22 pm
Geez, RQ, wonder why you mention the “shoot the messenger mentality” at the top of this post. Personally, I prefer to live in reality-land with you than in fantasy-land on other boards. Like you said, when things get too hard, I just step away from the computer.
Smile everybody! It’s going to be ok.
clem
LID 09feb06
November 12th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
RQ- I do hope you do not take what other people say too much to heart. Those that come here are looking for rumors and info that is being shared- that includes it all- the good, the bad and the possible in between. It is a roller coaster ride of emotions. I personally think you do a good job of keeping the posts “level headed”. It is easy to run with all the rumors going on in any which direction. You keep it pretty grounded here and I appreciate that.
November 12th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
RQ~ you are no joy stealer! You are the messenger of rumors, good and bad. Too bad people come to this site for information and if its not what they want to hear, you get the heat.
As for me, I have had fun here along with the ups and downs. Thanks for keeping things real, not saying only the feel good stuff.
I am also soooo ready to see some cut off rumors!!!
November 12th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
Ok, I FULLY believe parents should be heavily screened throughout this process, but for the life of me I can’t understand how having babies sitting in their unstimulating, wooden cribs with almost NONE of the things even the most modest family could provide is better than having a fat, not super wealthy parent or parents. It really is very frustrating.
November 12th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
I agree with wearewaiting…when people read things they don’t like they “shoot the messanger”. In my opinion RQ does an awesome job. Any bit of news..good or bad..keeps me sane during this wait.
Thaks RQ!!
~L~
LID June 7
November 12th, 2006 at 8:15 pm
As for RQ being a joy-stealer, that is hogwash. Those people need to give themselves a shake. A hard one.
You keep more people sane than you can ever possibly know! I’m now into my 13th month of waiting and if I didn’t have this site to come to every day, I think I’d go bonkers. Thanks for everything you do, RQ.
Snick
lid Oct 31/05
November 12th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
I am with Snick, this site keeps me sane!! I have no LID (sometime Sept 05) and zero info ever coming from my agency. I look forward to the info on here, rumours and all the useful info that has been shared by the BTDT crowd. Thanks RQ!!!!
November 12th, 2006 at 8:23 pm
mom2pups,
Why haven’t you been informed of your LID?
LID 9-12-05
November 12th, 2006 at 8:58 pm
The only thing stealing my joy was the feeling that I was all alone. Coming here and discussing difficult subjects and giggling over the goofy ones…well that has kept me sane.
RQ, If you are a joy stealer then just keep stealing my joy. You are wonderful. Thanks.
November 12th, 2006 at 9:22 pm
I personally am here for information. I don’t want canned feel better sayings like everything happens for a reason, nor do I want smoke blown up my a–! If I wanted to talk about ladybugs and quilt squares I’d go to the Yahoo group. This site has is also become a good place to vent and for real conversations about events, etc… It is also nice to get little comfort or support on an esp. difficult day when the wait is getting to me. But come on, what are you supposed to do RQ, hide the bad news from us! Now if you have some sort of mind control over the CCAA then, yes I’d say you were a Joy Stealer. But the last time you mentioned it I don’t believe you were able to control the CCAA or the rumors circulating! That said, bring on the good rumors. I think we are all due!
November 12th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
Okay I’m really confused!
I am overweight and have a January Log In Date. According to the CCAA we are out of the Review room. We have not been asked for further information. I am healthy, no high blood pressure or anything, just overweight. My BMI is over the 40 though. My husband is normal sized.
I know you can’t say for sure that we are safe. But in the instances above were these people asked for more information before the CCAA said they were out of the review room or afterwards?
I’m really confused. Have you heard of people who are out of the review room being asked for more questions?
November 12th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
This is the place I come to find out the real deal. When I head to some sites, I find mostly bows and bubbles, which isn’t what I’m looking for. This is where I find people, like myself, trying to figure out how to cope with the reality of the situation. Thank you, RQ!
Today was a somewhat better day. No crying jags. Still overeating. Work tomorrow, no computer access — that will distract me.
CRTM
LID 11/22/05
November 12th, 2006 at 10:59 pm
RQ says: “We aren’t here to have smoke blown up our skirts. We are here to try to figure out what is going on and what is going to happen.”
the reasons I’ve been here the whole time is to figure out what’s been going on and to enjoy the commraderie with all of you all. I’ve learned alot and have been honoured to been able to share things myself…and of course throw alittle bit of humour around once in awhile. hehe.
and one more thing…it’s not a skirt it’s a kilt ya wee lass. ;)
November 12th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
For a minute there I was wondering what you’d look like in a skirt…. good thing you fixed that vision
November 12th, 2006 at 11:25 pm
I am pretty sure that those who have bashed the RQ check in here daily! You know they can’t stay away! This is the only site where we can learn anything new. The only way our joy can be stolen is if we hand it over. Not me, I’m hangin’ on to mine, along with hope and faith…..for the long haul.
November 13th, 2006 at 12:30 am
TG—you are familiar with the song “The Scotsman”?? Everytime someone says something about a kilt that song pops into my mind!!
November 13th, 2006 at 12:33 am
Yes, the last 24 hours have been less-than-joyful after reading about new potential requirements on this site. But, it is SO helpful to get a heads-up on this information. It is possible that we won’t meet the financial requirement. We have adopted before, and exceed the income requirement, and our net worth is positive. But, it doesn’t come close to $10,000 per family member. I am hoping to work again next semester to try to build our savings a little, but that won’t cover the difference.
I am glad to know this because I can now ask my agency if they have heard anything, and ask them if our chances of rejection by the CCAA have changed. We have not paid them the second half of our agency fee, and if they discourage us, we could potentially pull out now, and save thousands in agency fees, not to mention our remaining paperwork fees that would have gone to waste had we been rejected.
I sure hope we can stick with the program. We really would like our children to share their heritage. I really do hope that our agency tells us that they are sure that our net worth is OK. However, this information comes at a time when I can take action if necessary, so I am very grateful.
November 13th, 2006 at 1:29 am
You are definitely not a joy stealer! You give freely of your time to provide a service of helping us all figure out just what is going on with our adoption process – plus a place to be genuine about how we are feeling. I strongly agree that you have helped to keep many people sane through this wait. Perhaps some people find denial works best to help them through something difficult (like the undetermined wait time to adopt that keeps getting longer), but for many of us, we cope by trying to make sense of it all, as best we can – and that is why we are so drawn to your site! You provide & sort information in a logical and confidential manner. Thanks so much!
November 13th, 2006 at 6:57 am
RQ – Just want to thank you for all you do. If some people can only take the good, not the bad and ugly too. You need to be somewhere ekse. Or just take a break from here. I know I’d rather know than be blind to some of what may be or is happening. Keep doing what you are doing . That is what the majority of us are here for. If you think the grass is greener elsewhere, try APC and you’ll be back!
November 13th, 2006 at 7:59 am
i can’t say i’m familiar with the song ‘the Scotsman’…at least it’s not ringing a bell at the moment (eh, which is funny since i’m such a ding-dong LOL). but everytime myself or co-workers/friends start on “all things Scottish”…well, Mike Myers and his SNL skits and the like come to mind. i.e. “we have three sizes…wee, not so wee, and FREAKIN HUGE!”
and remember, if it’s not Scottish…it’s CRAP! :)
November 13th, 2006 at 9:07 am
We are officially in our 15th month of waiting, our paperwork having been switched with the group AFTER us!
Instead of being annoyed, I’ve decided to look at it positively…maybe we’ll beat the record for wait time! Does anyone know what the record time for waiting is? Maybe it occurred during the SARS scare? I think we must be getting close!
Going crazy…. :)
November 13th, 2006 at 9:08 am
Whenever I throw out a really bad pun at one of my students, the rest of the class will yell out (to the recipient of the pun).
“Are ya Scottish? Cos ya just got ‘Kilt’!”
TG- So glad you are still posting. I was hoping seeing that cute face of Autumn before you now would not keep you from still joining those of us still awaiting.
November 13th, 2006 at 9:15 am
For those who are concerned about owning a home and having a negative net worth let me try to help.
Let’s say you rent an apt…then the cost of the apt. does not affect your net worthy, but next month you purchase a home for 100,000.00, you put 3,000 down and have a mortgage of 97,000. In this situation your net worth would increase by 3000, because you would add the 97,000 to your liabilities BUT you would also add the value of the home 100,000 (or more if your appraisal came in highter) to your assests leaving you with an additional 3000 (your down payment) towards your net worth. Owning a home should NEVER negativly affect your net worth as long as you don’t owe more than 100% of the value on a mortgage and/or equityline.
Hope this helps :)
November 13th, 2006 at 9:35 am
For those BTDT singles adopting a second, what is the minimum income requirement? I know that we have to make at least $30K to begin the process. What is the minimum for adopting #2 as a single? Is it $40K or $50K?
Any info would help greatly as I am hoping CCAA will continue to allow single applicants in 2008 so I can begin the process for #2.
Thanks!
Laureen
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
November 13th, 2006 at 9:51 am
When I comment on recently buying a home having a negative impact on our net worth, it is due to the fact that we cashed in all of our investments in order to buy the house. Our monthly expenses increased by quite a bit with the purchase of the house, and at the same time I was having my third child and chose to stay home with her. I realize that these were choices we made, and it hasn’t given us a negative net worth, just a net worth lower than 10K per person in the house.
November 13th, 2006 at 9:54 am
Well, TG, the kilt comment just made this song pop in my head. Here are the lyrics…my apologies to any not sharing the humor in this…
The Scotsman
From: A Faire To Remember
words and music by Mike Cross
Well a Scotsman clad in kilt left a bar on evening fair
And one could tell by how we walked that he drunk more than his share
He fumbled round until he could no longer keep his feet
Then he stumbled off into the grass to sleep beside the street
Ring ding diddle diddle I de oh ring di diddly I oh
He stumbled off into the grass to sleep beside the street
About that time two young and lovely girls just happend by
And one says to the other with a twinkle in her eye
See yon sleeping Scotsman so strong and handsome built
I wonder if it’s true what they don’t wear beneath the kilt
Ring ding diddle diddle I de oh ring di diddly I oh
I wonder if it’s true what they don’t wear beneath the kilt
They crept up on that sleeping Scotsman quiet as could be
Lifted up his kilt about an inch so they could see
And there behold, for them to see, beneath his Scottish skirt
Was nothing more than God had graced him with upon his birth
Ring ding diddle diddle I de oh ring di diddly I oh
Was nothing more than God had graced him with upon his birth
They marveled for a moment, then one said we must be gone
Let’s leave a present for our friend, before we move along
As a gift they left a blue silk ribbon, tied into a bow
Around the bonnie star, the Scots kilt did lift and show
Ring ding diddle diddle I de oh ring di diddly I oh
Around the bonnie star, the Scots kilt did lift and show
Now the Scotsman woke to nature’s call and stumbled towards a tree
Behind a bush, he lift his kilt and gawks at what he sees
And in a startled voice he says to what’s before his eyes.
O lad I don’t know where you been but I see you won first prize
Ring ding diddle diddle I de oh ring di diddly I oh
O lad I don’t know where you been but I see you won first prize
November 13th, 2006 at 9:56 am
“it hasn’t given us a negative net worth, just a net worth lower than 10K per person in the house.”
HELP!!! Okay, now I am thoroughly confused. I thought the net worth and the minimum income were two completely separate things.
November 13th, 2006 at 9:57 am
ahhhh yes i have heard that before! LOL
tooo funny!
thanks for that! :)
November 13th, 2006 at 9:59 am
mom2isabel-
i do plan on keeping up on here as I can…of course! maybe not as frequent over the next few weeks, but yeah! and I know the DW and I both can’t wait to see yours and this next groups baby’s photos! :)
soooo exciting!!
November 13th, 2006 at 10:22 am
RQ,
I also frequent one of the chat boards where the “joy stealer” comment was posted. FYI, that woman seems a bit neurotic and thinks the devil is out to get us all!
November 13th, 2006 at 10:34 am
Not to change the subject but where are the rumors for the next cutoff?? Where is Tater when we need her? (him?) Or is it just too early for rumors?
Dying to know!
LID 11/30
November 13th, 2006 at 10:37 am
Hi mom2isabel. I’m single and adopting a second time. I needed to be at/over $40,000.00.
jksweber–sorry you’ve been waiting so long. I adopted my first child from China in April 2003, during the height of SARS. Even then, the wait b/t DTC and referral was 13 months.
RQ: Sorry you’ve been maligned, esp. when you put so much of yourself into this site for us. Anyone who can’t handle reality should go find a fluff site.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:39 am
RQ,
I hope you are not thinking that I think you are a joy stealer from my earlier post. I made a mistake by trying to “lighten” things up. I didn’t realize that it would come across in that way. I am new here and I didn’t realize how everything works…it was not my place to suggest otherwise.
But I know you are doing us a great service by providing information whether good or bad and you are also under a great deal of personal stress with your own up coming referral. I take this site very seriously and would never want to even hint that what you do is negative in any way.
I am a guest here…and I respect what you do.
Again, please don’t think that because I suggested something and you disagreed that I can’t be a better person and respect that.
~Linda
November 13th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Linda~ I’m not the RQ but as my name suggests I am a very loyal subject and I read EVERY SINGLE POST. I have almost from the beginning –pathetic I know, my net worth is dropping by the day. Anyway, having said that, I am going to “pardon you” for your “lighten up” comment. I’m sure you’re a wonderful person and just want so much to be a parent like all of us :-)
Having said that, I agree about getting info here, good or bad. There was a person in my yahoo group (early 2006) who, as recently as August, swore that she was not giving up hope for an Oct referral!! Now if that was her way of attempting to cope, I guess that’s OK, but I need better info than that. Can you imagine if we did like some of the agencies want and stayed away from all the “rumors” –in Oct I probably would have been calling them expecting a referral any time.
I’ll take the facts please.
LID 2/13/06
It’s my 9 month anniversary!!!! Bring on the gifts and cake.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:38 am
I went to a seminar over the weekend held by our agency. Although they wouldn’t tell us what changes are being considered (due to the fact that the CCAA hasn’t announced what the changes were) they insisted that the changes could be implemented at any time. But when was the question… the CCAA has been in the process of changing the requirement as of the last 18 months or so, and it could be next week, or in six months, or another 18 months that it will be announced.
However, the director felt that the announcement would be “soon” and that they were almost complete in their approval process.
Truth is, the CCAA can deny us for whatever reason they want to. And they have done just that over the years. The new rules will just make their jobs easier if they already have these requirements set in stone.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:58 am
We still have had no requests for clarification thru our agency. We are a 2/24/06 LID, neither my wife nor I are in perfect health, but so far, so good…
http://dsnow.homeip.net/maddie.html
November 13th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Is there a list of frequently used acronyms available? It may be helpful to have this for us newbies. I understand LID but some acronyms I don’t quite get yet.
November 13th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
giantcomics101-
look under FAQ at the top right of the screen. There’s a list there with all of the other frequently asked questions that may help you with the website. :)
November 13th, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Mom2Isabell…
Net worth and income are two different things. The income expectation has always been 10K per person in the household, including the child you are planning to adopt. RQ’s post says that the new net worth expectation would be for 10K per person in the family, possibly including any grown children who have already moved out.
November 13th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
RQ, you are not a joy stealer. I value what you do to keep us as informed as is possible in what is a very murky world. Until the CCAA becomes transparent (when pigs fly), I wouldn’t trade this site for the world.
I was really interested in the above posts regarding SN adoptions, especially the increase since the wait has increased. We are a family that switched from NSN to SN, partly because of the wait. Partly.
For everyone talking about these adoptions, please remember that SN is every child that is not physically perfect on exam. That is a WIDE range. There are many SN’s that are minor/repairable that do not have life long repercussions. Do I think those children should wait, while I wait 2 years for a NSN child. No. I’m good with finding a child that fits my family. There are families that can take a seriously disabled child, or a child that will have significant lifestyle modifications (such as blindness, hearing loss), but that is not my family. At least not by our choice. If one of our children develops something like this, like was said above, you grieve then move on.
Now, knowing what I know about the SN process, at least at my agency, I would have started that route. I am a doctor, have treated many of these needs at one point or another (though admittedly not parented them), and have a better than average idea of the medical needs of these different children. Also, my dd would have been SN (duplicated thumb on one hand – one surgery at 6 mos and she is fine.) I have another child with life threatening food allergies that will most likely be with her for life. I’d take a repairable condition any day over the daily threat to her life that we worry about. These things put the SN program into perspective.
So, I don’t think considering a switch to SN because of the wait is inherently wrong. But it needs to be done with a great deal of soul searching and info searching. With the resources available on the web and other places, turning down a deaf child because you just realized you wouldn’t be able to communicate with her is inexcusable.
November 13th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
Upon thinking about it, I’m not all that surprised by this post. When we were still paper chasing this summer, our Chinese Consulate rejected two of our documents (a medical form) and our marriage certificate because they were both older than 6 months (note the marriage certificate notary is what was >6 mo). Our agency was completely floored by this as they said such a rejection had never happened to them before and this was the first they’d heard of this obscure rule being enforced. Needless to say, we wasted yet more time get a new physical and resubmitting our marriage license for updated notarization. (We’re the Murphy’s Law family of our agency and VERY nervous about all this bad stuff going on.) At least we’re logged in (LID: 8/7/06).
November 13th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
LOL, I had to laugh at all the fluff comments about ladybugs and quilts. We have done 2 adoptions from 2 different countries, and believe me with our first one if I spent my time praying, making cookies, giving everyone cyberhugs, cheerleading and thinking positive our daughter would not of come home. Our adoption was full of Government corruption, bribes, rioting, overthrow of Government and the person responsible for signing off on dossiers was taking extra money to release them. If you didn’t pay her, then you didn’t get your file.
People chose not to listen to what was going on, they believed it was negative information, when in reality it was FACT.
A very reputable agency that did adoptions in Haiti ran on their Christian theme was closed down, and the INS even warned families to serioiusly consider NOT using this agency when doing adoptions (this was before they had concrete evidence on them). However, families refused to listen to these warnings, and just thought we all needed to pray and give each other more cyberhugs. Unfortunately, after all the above happened, the agency was closed, investigated and the orphanage they were running in Haiti was closed and the children that were waiting to come home were placed in the care of other
orphanages and unfortunately the dossiers of the parents were lost. It was a very very sad situation. However, when we adopted from China it was like night and day, and I didn’t even concern myself because nothing could be worse than our first experience, and it wasn’t. However, I do know that TA’s for SN’s children are taking so long, some families in their 5th month, when I started I was told 2 weeks – 2 months, and ours arrived in 2 months. We are thinking of adopting again from China, and I prefer to know the good, bad and ugly, and I am so glad I found this board.
November 13th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
rumors…please…when oh when will they start? :)
I’ll take any at this point. I am going nuts on my DTC yahoo group, some say that with a Dec LID we will get ref in Feb.
Oh please…where are these people coming up with this stuff?
All the more reason I hang out over here with RQ and her loyal subjects!!! Now just waiting for the rumors…
November 13th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
frlfclvr, you just made my day! I completely forgot to add the value of my home to our assets. Just the difference between what we owe and the current value of our house puts us very close to the desired net worth according to recent rumors. I better call my dossier consultant and see if she wants me to redo the financial form. Good thing I haven’t taken it to be certified yet.
November 13th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
RQ–Thanks for shooting from the hip. It’s true that some people prefer to not know the specifics of what’s going on and there are places like that on the www. You created an alternative–where people can get rumblings and insider info–good and bad–to be better informed about this process. We’re grateful for that. LIke so many others have said, it reduces our stress–having access to your information and analyses– a great deal.
Hey–when you get back, you could go on Oprah, eh? Now THAT would be a fun way to unveil! :)
November 13th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
lojeslj,
I really liked what you had to share about your thoughts on adoptions through the sn route. My dh and I feel similarly to you.
November 13th, 2006 at 4:00 pm
I recently ran across a knitting blog and the author mentioned she is adopting from China and has a March LID just like me. She posted about the nice dinner she and her husband went on in September to celebrate being “halfway through the wait.” She wrote about wondering if she should start the nursery now rather than wait until after the holidays, lest she not finish it in time.
It was sad to me that the author doesn’t realize what’s going on with the wait. Her social worker probably told her 12 months just like mine did and she took that information to heart. I was going to leave a comment on her blog about her beautiful knitting, but I couldn’t. Nor did I want to be her “joy stealer,” as I was a guest in her home. Obviously she is Internet savvy and could surf around if she wanted to.
People come here for information, not to be built up. Different people have different coping strategies, and for me knowing I’m living in reality is what helps.
Patti
3/21/06
November 13th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
Just wondering…what is “TATER” I keep seeing this referred to.
November 13th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
amykrisb, glad I could help :) I use to do mortgages and am now a banker so the financial stuff is a bit easier to understand when you deal with it on a regular basis…some of the other stuff is way beyond me though ;)
Also, I don’t know if it is true or not, but I heard that the person who signs off on TA’s may have been out of the office AGAIN and may be back this week….could that mean the rest of the late TA’s are on their way???? RQ, what do you think ;)
November 13th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
guessingmom,
Thanks. I had a hard time putting it down concisely. There is alot that goes into the decision, and every family is different.
November 13th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Here’s a link to a free tool that will help you inventory your household goods. Remember, all your household effects, jewelry, china and silver count toward your net worth.
It’s a service from the Insurance Information Institute, an industry trade association.
http://www.knowyourstuff.org/
Even if your networth isn’t a concern, inventorying your stuff is a very good idea. If you have to make a claim on your homeowners or renter’s insurance, an inventory (with pictures or a video of your stuff) will make the process much easier.
November 13th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
mylia~
It stands for the The Agency That is Usually Right which was TATIUR and somehow it morphed into TATER. We haven’t heard much from TATER lately.
Jo-Anne
November 13th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
Rumor Queen…. Fantasy Land is a wonderful place to visit at Walt Disney World…. but I like to live in the real world and not one of make-believe when dealing with my family. You are SO not a joy-stealer!! After all, no one puts a gun to their heads and makes them read you site. Last time I checked my free will was still intact!! My family realizes the definintion of the word RUMOR and prefers to try and keep our fingers on the pulse of what is going on…. My only worry is what we are all going to do once you get your referral and head off to China!! The withdrawal will be horrible! ;) And I hope and plead that you will stay our champion after you return!!
November 15th, 2006 at 10:52 am
On all the ‘new’ requirements, I think the CCAA should take more care. They are entrusted with making judgements that will affect the lives of thousands of children every year. You might think they are inefficient, but if you do, go down to your local DMV for perspective. We are waiting for the TA, and have been blessed and entrusted with the care of a beautiful child. We had NO right or entitlement, it is a blessing. So the wait took 15 months instead of the expected 6.
And money does not make you a better parent, and neither does over all health. But if I had to pick parents for my 12 year old son, it wouldn’t be overweight, living paycheck to paycheck parents. At this point, the amount of families looking to adopt from China is plentiful, China should be more selective. And they should raise their fees. Of the $$ laid out so far, only a small percentage has gone to China, and more specifically the CCAA. But the US government made us pay twice for the I600 and fingerprints. The work that the CCAA does is for the benefit of the children. So if you are worried that your finances might be iffy, make the necessary changes. If you have a BMI over 40, go to the doctor and make less trips to the buffet. , don’t be a line in the paper about a young person having a heart attack. These children deserve the best opportunities the CCAA can provide. And while I hope to provide my daughter with a better life then she might otherwise have, she has already done that for me.