And now it’s the middle of November
It’s been two weeks since the most recent referrals began arriving. And we’re one week away from Thanksgiving in America.
It is very possible that we are three weeks into this referral cycle since most agencies were saying referrals were complete at least a week before they were mailed. It appears they weren’t actually signed until a day or two before they were mailed, but a few agencies stated they were complete the week before.
Either way, I really hope we start seeing some rumors about this batch next week. I’d love to get some rumors today or tomorrow, but as of now there just isn’t anything out there.
As a reminder, my guess (made on November 2nd) is that this next cut-off will fall between September 8th and 11th (inclusive). Because of the uncertainty around the people skipped last month, I think I need to say that this could be between September 5th and 11th (inclusive) if they continue doing about the same number. As always, there is nothing to say they aren’t going to do less, or more. These guesses are just based on past months, and to be honest I feel less confident about my guesstimate this month than I have in a while. There are too many unknowns around the people skipped over last month and I have no idea how to figure that into the equation. Also, I’m trying to not put a lot of weight into the speed up rumors, but if December is truly going to get their referral in February then we should see them get farther than the 11th this time. So my prediction could easily be off in either direction.
The other big question right now is when we might see them. I made this post on November 10th about when we might see referrals.
And finally, last but certainly not least comes Travel Approval rumors. One person has posted that NSN TA’s could begin arriving next week. And a couple of agencies have let their people know that they think SN TA’s could either be on the way or could soon be on the way.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:09 am
Thanks RQ for all of your work. You amaze me!!! For those of you waiting, I hope the rumours (all positive ones) start to fly soon!!
I’m also excited to hear about possible TA’s. We can’t wait to go and get our Cate!!!
I would also like to pass along this. I started the renewal process for our I-171 at the beginning of September. It expires 12/22. I am sweating this out now because our agency would like to have the renewal by next week. The thought that this could delay our travel, is making me so nervous. I thought I was ahead of the game, but you have to depend on so many other people to fiinish their part. If I had it to do over again, I would have started sooner.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:16 am
RQ…How have the rumors from the past several batches compared to what’s actually happened?
November 16th, 2006 at 10:16 am
I agree about getting moving on the renewal. I waited until the last batch came out and we weren’t included before making the decision to send ours in. This was of course after the mini breakdown I had.
I too now wish we had started earlier but I just kept hoping we would be able to use that money for our trip. No such luck and with the wait even at the current 14.5 - 15 months, the timing just doesn’t work out not to renew. So if you are holding out and hoping, take some advise from this stubborn lady, bite the bullet and and write the check.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:23 am
I am not holding my breath, but I am hopeful for a full months worth of referrals. I do not think China will let the wait get much longer, because more and more families will leave the China program for other countries. Let’s all remember our “donation fee of $3,000 new american dollar bills”. That is enough encouragement for them to speed things back up again. Plus I am one of those with a 12/14/05 LID!
November 16th, 2006 at 10:24 am
Katri - since the leaky faucet was taken out of the equation the rumors have not flown the same way in any two months.
Recent months’ rumors about cut-offs have for the most part been in the ballpark of the cut-off date. With a few wild rumors here and there, of course.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:29 am
It seems the next couple of months are going to be interesting….
November 16th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Coartney,
Try calling your local senator. They might be able to kick things in gear for you with the USCIS. Ours helped us a bunch when we were waiting for our 1st I-171.
Best of luck!!
November 16th, 2006 at 10:31 am
I would also suggest getting the renewal started soon…remember, the USCIS does not start/recognize your info as being “in” until they have all 3 things: 1) application (I600A) 2. fingerprints (which take 2 weeks to clear) 3. homestudy…when they have all three, start counting! And talk about “all over the place”…the USCIS in some states takes only DAYS to send the 171…and in others, it is MONTHS! We are in one of those MONTHS states, so I’ll be starting my renewal asap for a 171 that expires in march…ergh
November 16th, 2006 at 10:33 am
Our senator has also helped in the past….
November 16th, 2006 at 10:39 am
I have to agree with the renewal stuff. I waited too long not realizing that the other people who all have a part in it might have vacations or just not be as prompt as I’d like. Our agency said to have it by Thanksgiving –hoping TAs arrive shortly thereafter so everyone has kicked it in high gear and promised to have it back to us. i will rest much easier when I see it in my hands! So save yourself the hassle and start early…it also spreads out the pain of the money better than waiting til the end when everything else comes due!
I found that Senators can muddy the water and intimidate people so I’d start with begging the local people and asking them to help out…so far it is working for us!
November 16th, 2006 at 10:56 am
coartney-
first off try our agency people. email me if you want a specific name. we had our filings sent off to the USCIS on 10/26 and we got our I-171H last week. our agency personel know what needs to be done and I was told very serious about doing what needs to be done before it caused any delays.
:)
November 16th, 2006 at 10:58 am
Just got an e-mail from our large, China-only agency that said they don’t expect the next batch of referrals to arrive until “early December.”
November 16th, 2006 at 11:03 am
I appreciate everyone’s ideas. I just emailed our local USCIS office, and begged and pleaded to be expedited. I have also scheduled an appointment through INFO-PASS. I’ll work on my senators next.
Thanks!!!
November 16th, 2006 at 11:05 am
Oh, one more thing. Two agencies have now said that the CCAA does not want the wait to go to 15 months. That would mean that this batch would have to arrive before November 26th, which is a Sunday.
I’m not saying I think referrals are going to arrive before then, I’m just saying that once we hit November 27th then the wait has officially become 15 months.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:05 am
TG-I hope our office works as fast as yours!!! I think I’ll put a call into our agency too.
Thanks
November 16th, 2006 at 11:11 am
coartney-
no problem…i just know that they’ve done very well by us in the past and lately. :)
besides…we are ALL going to be in Chongqing together! no stragglers! hehe ;)
November 16th, 2006 at 11:21 am
i’m still thinking TAs and referrals will start showing up sometime the week of the 27th. true that if the CCAA was done matching alittle over a week before our referrals showed up this would be the 3rd week and next week the 4th. i’d be surprised though if things started showing up next week.
just my gut feeling.
it’s been wrong before though…
November 16th, 2006 at 11:25 am
tgredthread - email me..I’ve been to Chongqing twice! if you’d like some info on shopping, sight seeing, food specific to the area, etc….where will you be staying?
November 16th, 2006 at 11:28 am
So TG — two weeks for your completed renewal? Our second filing was sent on Nov. 8 and since we live in the same state …. I am wondering.
Concerning referrals. I am hoping to see it go through the 12th at least. I hope they come quicker than last month to save everyone from the agony of not knowing.
I would love to see TA’s next week.
Roadrunner - Are you out there? How are you holding up?
November 16th, 2006 at 11:35 am
I was told last time when we were fingerprinted that it actually only takes days for them to clear (not weeks). Maybe it depends on the office you go to.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Last month my agency posted on Oct. 25 that the matches had been made and were expected to be mailed in a few days. We know it took alot longer than that for them to actually be mailed. But, I think it supports the idea that the referrals this month are more likely to come out towards the end of this month, rather than the beginning of Dec.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:43 am
violet-
please leave your email on our blogpage (links to adoption blogs) if you’d like. we’d love to get some ‘inside info’ from you! :)
leia-
yeah i was a bit surprised that we got the new I-171H back that fast…but it’s one less thing to worry about now. ha! i’d hope that yours shows up pretty quick! our original one expired 12/6.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:49 am
Most agencies seem to be playing it safe and saying this month’s batch is expected at the end of November or the beginning of December.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:49 am
Concerning the agencies saying the CCAA doesn’t want it to get over 15 months……
Is this a different statement from “the current wait is now 14-15 months” which to me sounds like they’re not willing to commit to any prediction.
Are these two agencies actually speaking with the CCAA and are being told that they won’t allow it to go over 15 months? I would love to know that there are agencies that still have some clout and are commmunicating. I think mine just reads the website and waits to open the mail.
The difference in getting my referral this month as opposed to next month means alot to me. Planning around a family and a job can be very tedious especially around holidays. I’m so hoping to hear a few reliable rumors!
9/9/05
November 16th, 2006 at 11:51 am
Katri - some agencies seem to be hearing from the CCAA that the slowdown is over and things are about to start stabilizing, while others have been told (also very recently) that the current trends will continue.
As I said yesterday, I don’t know what to believe and for now I’m stepping off of this rollercoaster and just watching it to see where it goes.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Well I hope we get referrals the last week in November. With a LID of Aug. 30, 2005, we’ll have waited over 15 months if they don’t come out until December.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:08 pm
I would be VERY thankful next Thursday, on the special day of thanks, if referrals were here the beginning of next week! Okay, okay, a girl can dream can’t she?
November 16th, 2006 at 12:10 pm
Katri -
I’m really trying hard to prepare for a Christmas/New Year’s referral, to the point where we will really be caught a little off guard if it happens in this next batch. That’s sure to do the trick, right?!
Lee (9-9-05 LID)
November 16th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
It is really hard to be on the cusp isn’t it? I just need to put it in my head that we will be in the December batch. That way I won’t get my hopes up for a referral in the next batch. Now if anyone has any good advice on how to actually accomplish that please let me know!
LID 9.13
November 16th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
As far as skipped referrals affecting the cut-off date, I wonder if we could see more skipped this time around. If the ones skipped last time are included this time, but there are some skipped in this group, then the cut-off date could still potentially be farther into September. This would be a way for the CCAA to make it look like they are speeding up/referring more days when the total number of referrals isn’t really changing much. I don’t know. Maybe my logic is totally screwed up.
Our agency only has 2 sept. lids (12th &13th) and it would just be unreal if they got that far. Not counting on it, but still wishing.
:)
clem
LID 09feb06
November 16th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
robin1,
I am in the same place right now. I keep telling every one I know that it will be the batch after this next one and I even tell my DH that this is the way it is. However in my heart I can not help but hold out some hope that by some mircle this really will be the month CCAA suprises us all and we get our referral. I think I have known for a few months now that we would fall right on that line of the cut off but being here right now I am not a strong as I thought I was and it just plain stinks! 9/12/05 LID
November 16th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
We received our TA on 11-08-06 for a 9-27-06 referral. I noticed just the other day that it was stamped by the CCAA with the date 10-31-06. So, it was 8 days after they had done TA before it was sent.
November 16th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
My agency has about 40 still left in August. We’re the only Sept. group but there’s about 10 of us. In the entire year I’ve waited I’ve never seen my agency recieve more that 26 referrals in once batch….I know not to expect 50! I’m just praying that the late December batch won’t be delayed too much into the New Year…..It’s gonna make for a LONG, LONG, holiday!
November 16th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
There are so many ways the CCAA can go with the skipped referrals. The two most likely things for those skipped last month are:
1. Some of them would be referred this month with the rest having to wait even longer.
2. Everyone skipped getting one this month.
And then what happens to the people with a LID included this month who were asked questions? Will they get a referral this month? Or next month? Or the next?
So the grand total of all of that is if they include everyone skipped last month and also include everyone this month who should be included (even those asked questions in the review room) then they won’t get as far. This is what I hope they do, but it still means they don’t crunch through as many log in days.
Or, if they only do part of those skipped last month and also don’t include those who should get one this month but were asked questions, then they could get farther than we think again and get a little bit of the appearance of a speed up.
Very few agencies are getting anything from the CCAA about when their skipped families can expect their referral. Of the ones that are getting information, my best guess is that my last speculation is probably what is going to happen. But that comes from less information than I like to speculate on, so at this point anything could happen.
November 16th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
RQ, If I remember correctly, the agencies that said the wait would stabilize were non US agencies, is that correct? Has anything come out of TATER lately, and are they still the agency that is usually right?
November 16th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
RQ, I SOO appreciate your site!! Thank you very much for keeping us all so well-informed!!!
This is the FIRST TIME since I found this site MONTHS ago that I have DARED TO HOPE that this could be OUR month! I really don’t want to get my hopes up too high, but I just can’t help it. I am now officially on the rollercoaster!!!!
LID 9-12-05 and anxiously awaiting Elizabeth Ann…
His,
Mrs. U
http://www.makingahouseahome.blogspot.com
November 16th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Coartney and others –
I have finally broken down and called our SW about doing our HS update. Downloaded the I-600A and instructions and about to pull out copies of the BCs and MC. We’ve been 1) waiting to see if things were going to speed up, 2) procrastinating because we don’t wan to spend the money and 3) were somewhat heartened when I called our SW a couple months ago and after a call to the local CIS, she told us we need only an update, the money, the application and copies of the certificates. No new med exams, DMV checks, letters, police clearance checks, etc. (Except for the FBI fingerprints thing — and as a waiting family, we didn’t really intend to embark on a crime spree during the wait — though it has been long enough. ;o) This allowed me to “believe” we’d have enough time to renew in November to get the form renewed by 2/14/07. Now that our large China-only agency finally has our date on the *predictions* list as February (based on recent months’ referral patterns), it’s time to kick my bumper in gear. I suppose the positive side is that I can get our taxes done (along with adoption credit refund) before we finally leave for China.
As for my guesstimate on referral arrivals, I’m going to stick my neck out and predict before the end of November. My recollection is the CCAA “year” begins on December 1 and they may want to finish up this year with a little flourish of referral activity.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
This is my first time posting. Have been reading for a few months.
I want to tell RQ Thank you for all the information and time.
I know this month has been very difficult for me more so than any other time. DH and I began this process over 2 years ago with Ukraine, then changed to China when Ukraine shut down. When we began with China in Jan 06 thought the wait time was 10 Mos. (I did not know about this site then :) ). So imagine our surprise to be told last week by our agency possibly 14-18 mos. after LID. This is our first child and have been trying for 5 years. The wait seems to never end!!
As I prepare to do my I-71H renewal for the third time (with a new homestudy) I look for good news for everyone waiting for thier child.
Good Luck to all Sept. 05 LID’s.
Star
LID 6/20/2006
November 16th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
Pettrout…when is your LID?
Also, you mentioned adoption credit. If I do not complete my adoption until next year but I have incurred adoption expenses in 2005….does it mean I can claim it on my taxes prior to getting my child? I thought you had to have your adoption finalized before you could start claiming any credits. Hopefully, I am wrong…..I soooo need the tax break.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
Hi pettrout-
If you don’t mind me asking, what is your LID?
My LID is 10/12/05 and was thinking maybe I would get a February referral too.
Thanks
November 16th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Anyone care to expound on the TA rumors and how long they are taking? My I-171H expires 12/28. I sent in the renewal on the 12th of October, the check cleared my bank the 19th. On the 31st of October, I got a reequest for more information (yes, on the renewal) One thing was an error on our orginal marriage license and that took 2 weeks to clear up. I have since sent everything in that was requested, and am sweating whether or not they will get it processed in time, but I’m still hoping we travel in time that it won’t be an issue….. I know we are a small group and all our our acceptances were sent back to China on the 8th of November. So, anyone care to speculate on when we’ll get the TA?????
November 16th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
Hi Mom4Tori!
Good to see you. Like you, I waited until the last batch of referrals came out hoping to make it. I bit the dust, I sent mine this week.
I echo the suggestion that those of you who have not started on redoing your paperwork should get started soon. There are several families in my DTC group who look like they will not be traveling with their travel groups because they have not yet received their new 171.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
beatr1ce -
From what I understand (and based upon the tax credit for our last adoption), you can not take the credit until the tax year you actually complete the adoption.
In our case, we started the adoption process in February 2004 and then adopted our daughter in May 2005. We were able to claim all expenses (whether they were incurred in 04 or 05) when we filed our taxes for 2005.
I think the rules are different for domestic vs international adoption.
November 16th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
pettrout - my understanding is that you cannot file any adoption-related expenditures on your tax returns until you are actually home with your daughter and the adoption is finalized (ie - you will get your adoption credit for the tax year in which you come home with her - 2007 that will be given to you when you file in April 2008.) That is how it worked for DD#1…
I hate seeing all these Oct folks thinking Feb referral…. I am LID 10/10/05 and am trying to be optimistic for a Dec referral. I will hold onto my delusion for another week or so until we see the next set of referrals!!!
November 16th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Following is a link to the IRS tax topic on adoption tax credits. It is always best to see your tax advisor with these issues. The credit may be reduced or not allowed at all depending on your modified adjusted gross income, and the rules do differ between domestic and international. The good news is the credit is inflation indexed. Generally, what was stated in prior posts is correct information.
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc607.html
November 16th, 2006 at 3:16 pm
star6172:
You mention you are preparing to renew your I171h - why are you doing it now? You don’t have to until you are ready to go to China. The I171h doesn’t have to be valid at this point - yes, before you were DTC; but then only when you are in China. Save your money!
Kathy
November 16th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
For those who asked, my LID is 10/27/05.
For those confused about my reference to adoption tax credit, I should have let you know we are waiting for #2. The credit we are claiming is for our first adoption and because we’ve qualified for a couple of other tax credits (and the adoption one comes last for lack of a better way to put it), we’ve rolled over unused credits for the last 2 years. The nice thing is that the adoption credit keeps increasing so we’ve been able to get “more” than if we were able to claim it all the first year.
Someone asked about not being able to claim until your adoption (of *internationally* adopted children) is complete. That is correct — you can not claim the credit until the adoption is complete (meaning re-adoption for couples who have only 1 parent go to China). You can still count the expenses you’ve had in prior years for a total amount to claim. Note: I am not a tax accountant nor do I play one on TV.
November 16th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
so….anyone…. TA time frame guesses????? (from sending back to China to receipt)
November 16th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Happy hour -
TA guess is same as referral guess (end of November) for the same reasons. I know that the TA and MAtching room folks are not the same, and do not work together, but I venture a guess they do have the same year (12/1 to 11/30).
November 16th, 2006 at 4:43 pm
The thing I’ve never been clear on is what part of the adoption matters for their yearly numbers.
Is it number of referrals made, or is it number of TA’s issued, or is it number of adoptions complete.
If it’s number of referrals made then all it will matter is probably when the matches are signed and not when we actually receive them.
If it is number of TA’s then the referrals won’t be affected this time. If it is number of adoptions complete then nothing will be affected for those waiting this time.
Next question, are they close to their quota and need to slow down, or far from it and need to get as many in as they can? If they are close then I’d imagine the next ones won’t be signed until December 1st.
But it’s all a bunch of if’s, and nothing we can really use to try to gauge things, I don’t think.
November 16th, 2006 at 4:54 pm
probably time to consult the magic 8-ball again. was going to say shake the 8-ball, but somehow that seems painful.
;p
November 16th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Ok - just looking for best guesses. I’m praying 3 weeks. #1. I’ll be back home for Christmas w/ my boys
#2 I won’t have to sweat my I-171H arriving on time to travel
#3. I’ll be able to get the tax credit and pay off my travel loan on time :-)
November 16th, 2006 at 5:19 pm
Happy Hour-I’m with you.
tg-bring out the magic 8 ball. I think I’m going to need it. One of my senator’s staffers just told me they couldn’t help us expedite our I-171. It makes you wonder what kind of power he can wield in Washington. LOL, but closer to crying.
November 16th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
well, i look at it either two ways.
one: things work out and we travel and we have our last consulate appt before your original I-171H expires…
or two: hope that it really only takes a couple/few weeks for them to issue the new I-171H and mail it off to you so you have it before travel arrangements are made…
the thing one of the people at our agency had told me was that it really doesn’t take that long for them to issue the new I-171H once they have all the things they need (in fact our original got to us alittle over 3 weeks if i remember correctly). the thing that supposedly really takes the longest is for them to get around to issuing fingerprint appointments when you’re in that stage of the game.
November 16th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
as people on here have been saying…”i believe!”
didn’t get this far just to get tripped up on something, right?! :)
November 16th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
tg-Thanks! I do believe it is going to work out. I’m still working with one of my Senators. Maybe those TA’s will arrive soon, and all of this will be a moot point. I just keep telling myself, everything is going to be fine, over and over.
November 16th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
How funny is this? I just shook up my 8 ball on my desk for you guys…guess what?
I shook it TWICE and BOTH times it landed on the middle of two sides…so NO ANSWER!
I swear, this magic 8 ball must have been made in China and distributed by the CCAA!
November 16th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
Hey TG,
Just curious, because we’re with the same agency and state…how long did you wait after submitting your new I-600A before you got the fingerprint invitation?? Our homestudy will be redone this coming Monday, but we’ve been waiting a couple of weeks for the fingerprint invitation. I’ve heard it can take six weeks?
November 16th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
waiting4emily…yeah sometimes it can take several weeks for that.
but, actually what we ended up doing since we hoped we’d be a part of the September referral group (but got missed by one day) and since our fingerprints had expired already, we went ahead and did the fingerprint thing in early Sept. (that took alittle over 4 weeks just to get the invitation after sending the money, etc)
once we found out we didn’t make the cut, we mailed off the I-600A along with all the homestudy, background, medical, etc paperwork to the agency. we had our HS interview in mid Oct, and they mailed the HS update and everything to the USCIS office on 10/26.
basically, we held out as long as we could to redo things, but then had to, in the words of one of my co-workers, do the “mucho busta-move-o” thing.
I think in the end it helped that we had already had our fingerprints re-done.
since this is our first child and obviously first adoption, I’ve been in the “just tell me what’s supposed to happen and what to do” mode during this whole process. LOL kind of how I’m operating with this travel thing too. “just tell me when to go to the airport, and then where we need to be and when we need to be there.” LOL
November 16th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Well, with looking at a referral with this next batch (LID 8/30) I sent in our renewal paperwork yesterday. Since it only took us a little over a week to get our re-fingerprinting done, I’m hoping for a fast turn around. Our local office said to reapply 30 days before expiration but with the holidays coming up I wasn’t going to take chances.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:01 pm
oh, so i want to re-iterate just for those of you who are looking at having to re-do your I-171H and either your fingerprints are going to expire soon or have already….
go ahead and re-do the fingerprints beforehand. all you need I think is to send in a copy of your I-171H and the money to your USCIS office requesting re-fingerprinting. (I also included a cover letter with a brief explanation why I was sending them this and requesting re-fingerprinting invitations)
it will definitely help make things faster once you do send in the I-600A and get the ball rolling for your new I-171H.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
So when you send for the new I171H you need an updated H.S. , new fingerprints, but the birth and marriage certs. can be copies of the ones that were sent the first time? You don’t have to get medical exams, police reports and all that stuff for the H.S. update?? About how much do most homestudy updates cost? What a pain….
November 16th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Re renewing fingerprints under an existing I-171H thinking these prints will apply to a new I-600A application: I think folks had better check with their local BCIS office. My understanding is in some offices they pitch everything when your I-171H expires and make you do fingerprints over again when you file another I-600A. It’s unfortunate that there doesn’t seem to be consistent protocols nationwide among the BCIS offices.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
… don’t seem to be consistent protocols. Gads, grammar gone to hell.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
I remember reading that people would redo the fingerprints before the 15-mo. expiration and then the CIS wouldn’t accept the results when renewing the I-171H three months later. Maybe letting them expire and reprinting closer to the I-171H expiration, they’re accepting them… depending on the CIS office, like you said CWS. Makes zero sense that the offices aren’t consistent with each other.
November 16th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
sodergal — it varies widely by state (and sometimes by CIS office). the requirements part is state-based, e.g. does your HS expire after 12 months, or do you need to re-do police clearances, med exams? Time periods (waiting for responses) seem to be different for each CIS office. My vague recollection is that the Palm Beach FL office is a nightmare while a little bit aways — Orlando? — but same state of FL is pretty expeditious. For example, TGredthread resides in CO where they have to do a whole lot more than we do in VT.
Not surprisingly, the fees/costs vary accordingly. If we had to do a whole ‘nother HS it would cost us $600 (we’ve used her twice, so we pay less). But we did an HS Update for our 1st adoption and she didn’t charge us anything. The good thing about renewal — if there is a good thing — is that nothing needs to be certified or authenticated saving you both money and, in our case, agonizingly long waits with the U.S. Dept of State (don’t get me started).
To all those awaiting TA’s: what are you doing to get ready? Are you already packed or last minute types? My single best piece of assvice (my tribute to NOvary) other than pack way less than you think you need is to make sure you are in shape. I mean — can you carry 15-22 lbs around for hours at a time? I am serious. Being the stubborn type that I am (and not totally out of shape either), I totally ignored the practice-carrying-around-sacks-of-potatoes thing before our 1st. I lived to regret that. Although it was joy to carry her and be close, our 22 lb chunker took a toll on my arms and back for the first few days.
So I’m curious what are you all doing?
Waiting for the TA was the worst part for us; after that it proceeded in quick fuzzy blur (a fun one, indeed).
PT
November 16th, 2006 at 9:26 pm
HI Leia, Thanks for asking. I had to step away from the computer for a couple of days. Just needed a break. I am praying that you are right about referrals but I am so scared to get my hopes up. Lets hope your TA’s come real quick!!! By the way, how is the leg doing?
November 16th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Hey Roadrunner! I certainly understand the break. I usually disappear for the first two weeks of the month. Hopefully you are keeping busy and doing a whole lot of running! I have “jogged” a couple of times and am slowly working my way up.
Take care of yourself and know that there are many here hoping right along with you!
November 16th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
Rumor Queen -
This is our first adoption and I love to view your site. Maybe this has been asked before, but my selfish side has to go there: What will we do once you get your referral? It looks like you may be the batch after the next for matching. Will you still be tracking info., etc? What did you do, blog-wise, during the time between your first adoption and this long wait?
November 16th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
Thanks Leia!! Please let us know when you will be traveling and have a wonderful Thanksgiving!!!
November 16th, 2006 at 10:22 pm
We used the info pass on the USCIS website. I don’t know if all states use it but I did it, made an appointment that fit in my schedule, went to USCIS, and sat for about 45 minutes until my number came up turned in our paperwork and they gave me the fingerprint invite. It was quick and easy-we went to the fingerprint place a day later and got our prints done in about a 1/2 hour. We could have gone to get them right from the USCIS office but my DH wasn’t with me. I HIGHLY recommend doing it this way-it was SO fast!
November 16th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
wasn’t trying to give bad advice by the way…
and maybe because of the inconsistancy between states or even between Immigration Offices, but i don’t understand why a U.S. entity such as the USCIS wouldn’t accept fingerprints that you’ve redone when you go and send in an I-600A to renew your I-171H later. i mean the fingerprints expire in 15 months and the I-171H in 18. so you have to re-do your fingerprints anyways even if you still use your current I-171H. and I’ve heard of others who have done as we ended up doing and having the fingerprints redone and then later sending in the I-600A material with a copy of the stamped and dated paper after you have your fingerprints done.
and wrigsassy is right on about the infopass thing too. I didn’t try it but I know a few other people who did and it worked great.
sorry if this was mis-leading information.
November 17th, 2006 at 12:09 am
Regarding fingerprints and I-171H renewal, my agency specifically said that in the state in which I originally applied before we moved, you should not re-do the fingerprints seperately from the I-600A because USCIS would not use the “old” fingerprints; they only used fingerprints obtained concurrently with an I-600A application. This means letting the prints expire until you are ready to re-file I-600A. But in our new state, we renewed our fingerprints after 15 months and then re-filed our I-600A a few months later, and everything was fine.
Because there are several offices in most states, and the procedures could be different even from office to office in the same state, you must check with the specific office you’re using to see what you need to do. I don’t understand how every office developed their own procedures. When we moved, it took a million phone calls to figure out how to update our paperwork!
November 17th, 2006 at 5:16 am
sheltiehome,
Well that is what I thought too, that we could wait to renew I-71H since our LID is 6/20/2006. But my agency clarified after me continually asking for them to verify this before we did it and said that the I-71H has to be valid when our dossier is in review. She said after review it does not matter as long as we are valid once traveling. She also said that each CIS office should work the same but they don’t. Our office is in Louisville, KY. My agency emailed them our specific situation and they said they would not accept an update but will only accept a new homestudy even though our last update is dated for “april 2006″, but they said we need a new one because the original is over a year old. I asked why these rules seem to changed from office to office as this is Federal and each should be the same. My agency states that although this is true there are also Individual state regulations that apply to the agency which they must abide by.
I am being told that we need to do this rather quickly as they are expecting our dossier to begin review in early 2007.
Our homestudy agency is different than our adoption agency because of starting with Ukraine. So the owner of our current adoption agency contacted our Home study agency and they are only (I guess in the scheme of things) going to charge us $500.00 for a new home study. I am waiting to get a list of what specific paperwork I need to chase down now for the new homestudy. I am worried about the financial now (cash on hand) as we have spent $10K since this process started and obviously our savings is $10K less now… Hoping this can be explained with adoption receipts…..
November 17th, 2006 at 7:42 am
RQ, or all you other readers that have been around for a while, some time ago, maybe in September or October, RQ posted a scenario showing when to expect a referral, based on how many days CCAA manages to do. I cannot find it in the archives but that scenario was really helpful. Can it be found again in the old messages?
November 17th, 2006 at 7:53 am
wait a minute. if i read correctly, midnightsmom is saying that the renewed fingerprints that we did at the USCIS office this past august will not be accepted with the new I 171 we will be submitting soon. please, someone tell me this is not the case. i am planning on filing the new form and inclosing the fingerprint approval with expiration date clealy stating Oct. 2007.
i thought having to “renew” a finger print was obsurd, but this is insane.
November 17th, 2006 at 8:24 am
mattnglo~
I think it depends on the state you live in and that particular CIS office’s regulations. Indeed you may have to get re-printed with the new 171. You should check with your CIS office. Sucks doesn’t it? Good luck.
November 17th, 2006 at 8:29 am
mattnglo - it really depends on state and office. My fingerprints expired this past August, I requested renewal in June (due to the length of time it can take to get an appt. in Charlotte) and had myself printed in August. I was able to submit my I-600A at the beginning of September referencing the new prints and got my I-171H this week.
However - you cannot use Infopass with Charlotte USCIS office. Even though they state on the internet that they will accept applications in person - they don’t. I wasted a day making an appt. and walking them in just to be told that they only will accept them mailed.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:01 am
here’s an idea…
maybe instead of focusing energies on getting the government to change the length of validation on the I-171H and fingerprints, perhaps we should make a big push to have requirements at both state and federal level EXACTLY the SAME! the more I’m reading these posts the more unbelievable it is to discover that everyone has to do different things to achieve the same objective. it’s ridiculous!
November 17th, 2006 at 9:15 am
tgredthread–I am with you. I’ve already started the ball rolling with the senator’s office in our state. It’s such a touchy topic that I’d like to have my little one in my arms before I get too friendly with CIS. Hopefully, if enough of us are pushing for change, it will happen.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:17 am
i agree tg, and we should see who has the easiest or least requirements so we can make the recommendation to follow a certian offices procedures. such as allowing fingerprinting before filing the redo, and allowing just a HS update rather than a new HS. i thought i knew what i would have to do when our time came, but now i dont have a clue for our state.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:23 am
I might have some information that will shed some light on why some CIS offices have different rules. Currently in my state I believe our homestudy is good for 2 years but I know some state’s laws only have the homestudy valid for one year. Just like some states require parenting classes… but mine doesn’t… or how some states accept the adoption in China as legal (like mine) and some require a readoption when you come home. I don’t think the Federal Gov’t will be able to make each state’s regulations the same because each state has the right to regulate their own requirements for the above things mentions (and I am sure many others). I think each state’s CIS office has to work around some individual state rights. I am sure that is NOT the only reason why things vary from state to state but it can certainly account for some of them.
November 17th, 2006 at 9:32 am
Our fingerprints expired on 9/1 and so our agency emailed us the letter to sign and send to them with the $$. They sent it to USCIS for us and about 2 weeks later we had an appt. ( We are in GA, btw) We got fingerprinted on 9/6.
I contacted my agency and they told us that they anticipated us travelling before our 2/10 I 171 expiration date. HA! I received an email from them on 10/24 telling me that they were being told by the home office to have all clients refile their I 600A forms. We had already had a HS update in July since the state of GA requires one after a year has passes. Therefore, we had already done our employer letters, and medicals. All we needed this time were copies of our BC’s, MC, and financials.
We did have to be fingerprinted by the county again so that I could send it to the state GBI lab for processing. We also had to wait for the county child abuse letter to come back as well. We are hoping that all of the paperwork is alreay being sent to USCIS or either very soon. It is currently taking 15 weeks for an I 171H here. ( when we were refingerprinted I received our updated I 171 H in a week and a half though) I’m hoping it doesn’t screw up travel for us if we travel in March.
Claire
LID 10/10/05
November 17th, 2006 at 10:18 am
Wow what a mess with all the rules and regulations changing from state to state. Imagine my surprise when our agency told us that we must start completely from scratch for our 171 when we were told several times that would not be the case and a simple update would do. It seems when they contacted our particular branch office we would go through it is the only one in Texas that requires this. Now this does not make any sense to me at all, if the whole of Texas requires one thing then how in the world can this branch set their own rules and require so much more?!? HELP!!
November 17th, 2006 at 10:27 am
All this renewal talk is making me a little nervous as well. I have a LID of 11/28, and my 171 expires sometime around April 24. I was planning to be optimistic for another month or two, and then file for a renewal the beginning of the year. However, trying to be efficient, we went ahead an were refingerprinted yesterday, as our prints expire in a week. We also had a home study update done in August, as we had moved from TN to AR. So now I feel like I have things all mixed up.
I should also throw in there that we tried to change our address with the CIS office by filling out and sending in their change of address form. Found out when we got there yesterday that it never went through, as I didn’t realize that we had to send in a $200 fee for them to change our address. Changing the address is supposed to result in a new 171 being sent…same expiration, just a new piece of paper with the different address on it. I said to the lady “PLEASE tell me that I don’t have to spend $200 to have the address changed on this one and then $545 to get a new one since it is going to expire!!!” She said she thought they would do it all at once if I just sent in the application and the $545. I think I may give up on the optimistic thing and go ahead and send it in…maybe the less time that passes, the less chance there is that they will tell me to do something over AGAIN.
November 17th, 2006 at 10:37 am
I meant to add that we made our fingerprinting appointment through Infopass. VERY easy. We hadn’t sent in a new 600a or anything. (Of course, if they come back and say those won’t count it won’t seem quite as easy, but as long as they allow it, I would definitely suggest this…) I made the appointment on Infopass and chose the option “need to speak with an immigration official.” We could have made our appointment within the week, but made it a week and a half out to fit our schedules. We showed up at the office yesterday with the print out that you receive when you make the appointment…you print it off yourself. Walked up to the window and said we were there to be refingerprinted for an adoption. The lady asked for our current 171, and filled out the fingerprint notification forms for us while we waited. (This is where we had the whole discussion about changing address fees, etc…) We turned around and dropped them in the fingerprint box and were called back to be printed within 15-20 minutes. So we had our appointment within 15 minutes of starting to request it on the internet, got to pick the day and time we wanted to go, and were in and out of the office within 45 min to an hour. AND this is in the Memphis office, which has a reputation for being horrible. Guess for now we’ll be really happy unless they turn around and make us do it again when we try to renew. We do have to drive 4 hours round trip to do this, so we really don’t want to run over there again, not to mention we really don’t want to spend another $140 to be re-re-fingerprinted.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:50 am
FYI-
My local USCIS uses InfoPass. I got an appointment, waited in line, went to the counter, only to be told that Jacksonville, Florida does not allow fingerprint appointments to be made in person. A letter must be sent requesting a fingerprint appointment in writing. I asked if I could write a letter right there and give it to her. I was told that it had to be sent by U.S mail. It was frustrating since the fingerprint office was right at the other end of the room. I send it by mail the next morning. Two weeks later I received a letter saying the request and payment had been received and to contact them by mail if I did not hear back from them within 90 days. (Fortunately, I learned from the first go ’round not to freak out about that. I received the appointment ~ a month later. Went in..no problem. A new 171 was sent with the new print expiration date on it.
When I sent my 1-600 application for the new 171, I wrote a cover letter, included copies of the cashier check for the new prints, the appointment letter and the new 171 they sent. I only sent a check for $545. We’ll see.
Laureen
LID 8/30/05
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
November 17th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
mom2Isabel - Is this just Ludicrous? It is so scary that no one working for a Federal Agency has commons sense.. and to think these people are in charge of protecting us!!!! ARRGH!!! Let’s just make people run all over through this maze that is completely inconsistent from State to State and falls under a Federal Agency. I’d like to send this link to the Head of Homeland Security to see what is happening under their watch. I’ve about given up on our federal governement as it it. Seems much of the adoption community was on a letter writing campaign early last summer about getting the I-171H to extend to 24 months from 18. I remember hearing they were going to have a “meeting” in November (took them like 4 months to decide to meet) Don’t know if anything has come out of it. I hope for future adoptors, that this does happen and we did help. Who knows?
November 17th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Changing subject for a minute….. A very serious and persistent Lady Bug is living in my master bath!! Perhaps good news is on the way! Hoping for some rumors next week!
-DJ
November 17th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
I can’t stand it. I just have to tell someone. We finally mailed in our initial application to the agency. Now if only the wait will decrease or at least sy at 14-15 months. We are finally starting on our journey to our daughter (or should I say Chinese princess.)
November 17th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
Congratulations chinagirl6886!!! You just jumped on a crazy ride, but it is so worth it when you see your child’s face.
Back to USCIS-I understand that each state has different rules regarding homestudies and parenting classes, but that should have nothing to do with having to repeat, sometimes three times, your fingerprints. It’s simply ridiculous!!!!
November 17th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
congrats chinagirl6886! make sure you’re strapped in and hold on tight. :)
November 17th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
We had our fingerprints redone yesterday morning (Atlanta). LID 10.25.05 with expiration of I600A February 8, 07. It was the 3rd and final piece of our renewed immigration work. (Our fingerprints expired in early October and we just let that ride until time to renew the I600A, which we filed 2 weeks ago.) The appointment for fingerprinting came quickly. Our homestudy renewal was done in Sept and Oct. This time around our homestudy required new financials, less rigid medicals, new DFCS clearance, state police check, updated proofs of pet rabies shots. There were assorted delays at various steps along the way, so not for a minute would I delay this work, as much as we all hate forking over the $545 and the $140 for fingerprints. Also, our experience with the fingerprinting this time around was very different. The guy at overseeing it all told us that due to tremendous changes in immigration, they can no longer be flexible at all with times, dates, etc. The first time around they didn’t even schedule the 2 of us on the same day, but I went with my husband anyway, whose appt day came first - and the same guy let me get my prints done that day as well. We were also 2 hours early and we were allowed to go early. But no more. Very, very tight ship now.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
What gets me is the “expiration” of fingerprints in the first place. I mean, while I have contemplated some unusual activities suring the 23 months of this journey, searing off the tips of my fingers was not among the list. When I was refingerprinted in October, I asked the officer about this. She said that the FBI clears out their files every 12 months. WHAT????? Of course, my immediate thought was…How does CSI and Law and Order pull those prints up?
I guess I have been watching too much TV.
On a more positive note…to my Fellow Auggie Remainders: We should see our daughters’ faces within 2-3 weeks. Can you believe it???? We are finally next.
Woo Hoo!
Laureen
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
November 17th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
Mom2Isabel~Yes, I keep telling myself 3 weeks from today (at the latest). I’m getting very, very excited! My birthday’s in two weeks so seeing my daughter’s face for the first time will be the best gift I will ever receive. :)
Panda: LID 08-30-05
November 17th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Hi Everyone,
I’m so excited that we have finallly received our I-171H! I fully realize that we’re a long way from meeting our daughter, but for right now I’m just excited that I’m getting closer to having a login date. I’m getting tired of signing everything with
… still paperchasing
Yippee! I’m almost official!
November 17th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
hisgirlre,
We are in Texas also. Which office are you using that the requirements are different?
November 17th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
SN TA’s HAVE ARRIVED!!!!!! Our agency got them TODAY!!!!
YIPEEEEEEEEEE
November 17th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
congrats bloomer that is exciting!
and definitely congrats to you frlfclvr!
November 17th, 2006 at 2:31 pm
We did not get our TA…we are waiting on PA…I just got so excited for those waiting for so very long ;)
Thanks though :)
November 17th, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Thanks TG! I hope you have a smooth and wonderful trip to meet your daughter! Congrats to you too!
November 17th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
pandaexpress-
My birthday is in three weeks and, like you, I am thinking that this is going to be the best present of my life.
Bloomer- Welcome to the wild and crazy ride!
frfclvr- a big Woo Hoo to You Hoo!!!! BTW, I am SOOO intrigued by your screename. Is it an acronym? Cos I think between TG and me, we can come up with some amusing contributions.
:-)
Laureen
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
November 17th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
Blossombaby - I’m LOL here that you had to have rabies cert for pets!!! Never heard that one!!!
November 17th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Coartney & TG - Thanks. I’m usually not one for rollercoasters, but this is one ride I don’t mind strapping myself in for. Hopefully, we’ll be able to bring our daughter home before 2009; before my 40th birthday would be nice, since that will be 11-19-08. OK, I’m ready - let’s go!
November 17th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Mom2Isabel - I’m glad you asked the question because I keep thinking Farfigclover (like farfignuggen, but with clover) when I see it.
We also had to show that all pets had their vaccines current, and not just rabies.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
mattnglo:
Yes, that could possibly be the case, but check with the USCIS office you are using, (and with your agancy if they are in the same state) to see what you need to do. It was different for each of the two states we dealt with: the Virginia office we dealt with would have made us do ours again, but by the time they actually expired, we had moved to Florida and that office just used the ones we re-did after the 15-month expiration.
-Suzanne
LID 9/5/05
November 17th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
chinagirl6886-
Happy birthday to a fellow 11/19er.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Blossombaby & Happy Hour - I think our state also requires proof of shots for pets. We don’t have any right now; so that won’t effect us, but my husband really would like a dog. I would too, but I say baby 1st and then a dog!
November 17th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
I would recommend dog after baby is not a baby anymore. Like, six. Maybe five. Perhaps four. Definitely not three.
Just the thoughts of a puppy and a toddler in the house makes me want to go running through the streets screaming and flailing my arms about.
It’s hard enough with a dog who is well behaved - then you are only teaching the child how to treat the dog. With a puppy and a toddler neither would know manners and… yeah, the screaming and running and flailing thing comes back to mind.
Not saying it can’t be done, just that I wouldn’t want to do it.
November 17th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
RQ brings up a good point and on an issue I’ve been thinking and reading about since we started this process.
with a puppy, the child definitely has to be old enough to understand their role and the dogs role in their relationship. the child needs to be old enough to help and to understand the training of the puppy so the puppy will not just see the child as just one of the pack.
My deal is that we want to get a dog that Autumn will be able to “grow up” with and the dog will feel bonded to her but also realise that she is an Alpha and not another pack member that can be intimidated. I also would hope that as they grow together the dog will be alittle more protective of Autumn especially with strangers and such. But like everything meaningful…it will take alot of patience and work. :)
If anyone has any other good suggestions of reading (or viewing) to go along with this that would be cool.
but i’m really cracking up over the running down the street screaming and arms flailing thing…LOL
November 17th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
We already have a dog that thinks she is the first born child, so we have work to get her used to the idea of a baby in the house. At a recent Toddler and Baby show a dog trainer suggested that we get a doll so our dog will be used to someone else getting attention on not just her. I have a photo on my blog as to which doll we got…..it seems to be working. With a LID of Aug 14, 2006 we’ve got lots of time to get our dog used to the idea of someone else sharing the attention. Anyone else have any suggestions to make the transition easier. I have read RQ suggestions.
Thanks, Paula
LID Aug 14, 2006
November 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
tgredthread
Our first daughter is 4 1/4 yo and was so into the concept of dogs and puppies that when she grows up she wants to be one (and nothing will convince her otherwise). She had wanted one for ages and we were going to wait until after number 2 but given the wait we decided to relent now (I figured that by the time of our referral the dog will be at least a year old and have year of training under his belt).
We have bought a labrador pup - I had one as a child (I was one when my parens bought her) and as a rule they are very tolerant of kids. But I have to say that is when the dog is out of the puppy stage.
Our pup is now 9 weeks old (we have had him for 2 weeks) and absolutely gorgeous. He has given us a small taste of life with number 2 by interupting our sleep during the night and rising early (he was born on a farm and he wants to wake up for good at 5am). Toilet training our first daughter never seemed to be the challenge that house training the puppy has been.
At this puppy stage I think he views our daughter as another puppy to play with. We are having to work with her to get her to assert herself in the pack.
We also have to work with her to discourage her from running around with her arms flailing, particularly if she wants him to stop what he is doing, because he thinks it is a big game.
Puppy preschool starts in a couple of weeks and that is the first formal step in training him.
Getting the puppy now has also allowed us to explore some issues that will no doubt arising again when her sister arrives - things like sharing her parents (we have had a couple of jealousy moments about the puppy getting more attention), helping out (she had promised to help with certain tasks, as she has with her sister, but soon found it boring) and putting your special ‘treasures’ away so they can’t be broken by others.
I too hope that our dog will grow up and feel bonded to our children and protect them (although I suspect being a lab he will lick an intruder to death).
Sorry no suggested reading - although I have visited a few websites that I have picked up some tips about dealing with behaviour issues.
Magnolia’s friend
November 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Puppies are hyper little things that don’t know it’s wrong to jump up and bite you in the nose. And puppies need a whole lot of attention.
I just can’t imagine going through that with a little one in the house.
I think if you got a dog a four or five months before you gave birth then by the time the baby starts crawling the puppy will be almost a year old and old enough to know basic manners with the baby. And they can grow up together. And that is what my parents did with me, our dog was six months older than I was and we were both seven when she died of heart failure (large dog).
But bringing a toddler home and then getting a puppy? That’s a whole ‘nother ballgame.
I’d get the dog first and have it be around a year old when you travel. And I’d train the dog the whole time with the idea that a baby would be in the house - so lots of tail pulling and rough on the ears and grabbing whiskers and playing in the dogs food. That kind of thing.
In our case our dog was already pretty old when we traveled and is now a grumpy old codger who adores our daughter.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
My dog was 2 when we had our first child. Our dog was our first child. No matter how much you love animals, your child will not compare. This is coming from someone who has never been without a pet my entire life. I never thought my precious dog would take a back seat to anything or anyone. But it happens. IMHO, getting a dog before the child would be a mistake. The dog doesn’t understand why they’ve been displaced. Check out the main reason animals make it to the shelter, we have a baby now and it didn’t work out. Everyone thinks it won’t happen to them, but it does. Not every situation can be compared, but having a dog is like having a perpetual 2 year old. I’ve had it both ways, dogs before kids and dogs after kids. I would recommend the dog after the kids, and I agree with RQ, 4 and up would be best.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
we have a shephard/husky mix about 8years old. she’s not as large as she should’ve been because she was abandoned after birth and the humane society had found her and her littermates near the edge of a highway. she never got “large” but she is stocky and strong. She’s a very nurturing dog, but at the same time gets ‘grumpy’ and doesn’t want us to bother her sometimes. We’ve basically spent this last year retraining ourselves and her. I did plenty of pulling and tugging on her tail and ears…and doing big hugs since I’ve seen that children love to give dogs big ol body hugs. Working with her in that regards really helped. And we also have done the ‘doll’ thing with her. and have kept toys out and laying about the house. We also let her smell everything we bring in that’s new/used/etc for Autumn and her room.
since about a few months ago, I’ve caught her in the middle of the night…sleeping in Autumn’s room in the middle of the floor or near the crib.
I’m glad this little topic popped up as well. :) and thanks RQ for pointing out some things and and sharing from experience.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
I had to chime in on the dog issue - I would not recommend getting a dog anywhere near the time of bringing a young child into the house. I agree with waiting until the child is 5 or 6. We’ve had 3 dogs - 2 newfoundlands who were 7 by the time we had our first, and passed away at 13 last year, and a japanese mutt who was 3 when our first were born (and will probably go off to college with them). I loved my dogs, but they definitely take a back seat once children are in the house. They also take up time, and energy, and increase the amount of chaos and housework. Now, people asked if we were going to get rid of the dogs when the twins were born. I would have never sent them to the pound, but if a really excellent home opened up for them that I trusted we would have considered it. But I did feel bad for them. They really did not get near the attention they were used to.
With that said, if someone feels they must get a dog, please research the breeds and find one that is good with children, and not possessive/territorial. Looks don’t matter nearly as much as personality. And was said before, “mess with it” constantly as a puppy. Planning for the future, we would pull their food away, put our hands in their mouths, wrestle, pull, etc, when they were puppies.
November 17th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Couldn’t resist…the boat from China is moving soooo slowly, I must point out the obvious: chinagirl6886, no need to strap in nor hold on. We’re not moving anyway that quickly. However, you might want to bring along a few hundred books to read, something to munch on, and a boatload of patience.
November 17th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
We finally found out our LID!!!!! I know we have so far to go but it’s still another milestone!!! It feels real now.
LID 9-13-06
I’ve been waiting to write that
November 17th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
congrat’s seeingred, hopefully your ride will be shorter than mine!
LID-Nov ‘05
November 17th, 2006 at 6:52 pm
I have two dogs - a three year old and 1+ year old and believe, as a family (furry that it is) we will figure this “pack” out. I really have enjoyed the Dog Whisperer - his book is very good as well. There is time investment and commitment that has to be placed on them to get them ready for a little leader to enter into the family. It is my job to make it a safe a happy place for all of them.
November 17th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
I totally agree w/RQ on the puppy/toddler thing. We made a HUGE mistake when we took in a puppy from my aunt’s dog last fall. Our son was about 2.5, and the puppy was half border collie. What were we thinking?!!!!! Our son hated the dog for a long time b/c he (dog) didn’t know not to bite or not to knock over the kiddo. But even after the dog grew out of that stage, it was still just too hard. He required an enormous amount of exercise, and the logistics of accomplishing that with a toddler in the house were just impossible. If our son were older & could go on long walks & hikes, or if he were a baby & could be carried in a backpack or Bjorn, it would’ve been fine. But he was in between those two stages, so he had to be left at home when the dog was walked/run/taken hiking/etc. Between the attention the dog required & work & life in general, it meant that my husband & I were almost never at home together. We were also tremendously stressed by the whole situation. We ended up giving the dog back to my aunt this summer. I miss him a lot, but our family is much happier & life is simpler. We plan to get another dog (NOT half border collie this time!) when our youngest child is 5ish.
November 17th, 2006 at 7:12 pm
We have a boxer and they are the most amazing dogs with kids. NEVER possessive, so kind, kids sleep on his tummy. GREAT watchdogs because everyone is scared of them (dog dummies -and I say that with affection- think they’re pit bulls even though they are beautiful dogs). Our son, adopted from Russia, was very scared of our dog for about 24 hours…now I can’t imagine life for the kids WITHOUT our boxer. He is a member of the family…my third child…soon my 4th (I hope very soon)!!! :)
November 17th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
We have two incredible terriers. Our female will be a wonderful mother-dog. They can run away from an annoying toddler. But they can also run out the door if opened…so consider the temperment of the breed if you are introducing a new dog to your family. It’s our responsibility to keep both the dogs and our new child safe. Having said that, can’t wait to introduce the fur-kids to the newest member of the family!
November 17th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
We adopted a ex-racing Greyhound. Bob. He is to die for. The most gentle, sweet natured dog I have ever known. He sleeps all day, loves to run in the back yard (a fence is a requirement) and really is a wonderful companion. He was 2 when we got him, and is now 10. He is wonderful with kids, loves all other animals, etc.. Almost all Greyhounds are this way. The rescue organization will even small animal test the dogs for you before you adopt. I’d highly recommend one - I can’t imagine not having one in my life!
November 17th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
We have a cockapoo and she is just like one of the kids. She is sooooo sweet. In the van she jumps into her carseat, and at night she gets tucked in with the other kids. She barely sheds, barely barks and potty trained in no time. She plays gently, and loves to cuddle. I wonder if all cockapoos are that wonderful? She makes me want another one! Our kids have always wanted a boxer though, it’s nice to hear good things about them.
November 17th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
I forgot to mention that we also have 3 cats who we have had before the adoption of our first daughter. And they were my substitute babies (although regretably my favourite ‘baby’ cat - only 2 years old - died tragically the month before our referral - she really was spoilt and I don’t think she would have like the competition as much).
I was really nervous about how they would react to our daughter. Other than being quite shocked for the first couple of weeks they took it really well. Our Burmese took himself out to their cat run to hide from the screaming ‘pink thing’ for the first couple of weeks until it dawned on him that she was staying for good so best to form an alliance and they are still firm friends (he is regularly lugged unceremoniously around the house).
We have been home for over three years now and I would say that our daughter has been scratched only about 3 times in this time - most have been her own fault - for example trying to get the cat to take off his ’socks’ by pulling his feet - the pulling action caused his claws to unsheath and run across her hand.
They never tried to sit on her or smother her, like the old wives tales say (although we made a point that they are never allowed into her bedroom).
So the cats were very forgiving of a new baby. But less so of a new puppy (they have tolerated a certain amount of nipping but have put their paw down on occasions and given him a slap in the face).
Magnolia’s friend
November 18th, 2006 at 12:05 am
When we lived in the big city we were English bulldog people, 2 of them. Now we live in the rural mountains and our days of buying our dogs are over. One by one the homeless dogs come to us as the locals put them out when it’s time to spay/neuter. These are older dogs and we now have a theory that when a dog chooses you, it is a great match. We have 6 these days (something I never thought I’d say), all spayed and neutered, love each other, easy and gentle. We don’t have to walk them, thank goodness, as they have plenty of room to run, and all are in at night. As I read this I realize we sound like the Clampets (sp?). We have more sense than this sounds like.
November 18th, 2006 at 10:12 am
Just to chime in on the dog thing. It took our papers 14 months to get out of the UK and to China and during the process we decided to get a dog as things seemed to be getting longer, our daughter was 4 and we thought training should occur beforehand. We got a Choc lab who right now is 18 months old..and will be nearly 2 by the time we get to China (all things being equal - we are a Nov 7 05 LID).
It was a great reminder of no sleep, getting up early etc - things we had forgotten by now. The other great thing he is so well trained with kids. Make a point of taking him to schools..ours often sits with me outside the school gate for hours (when I’m doing PTA things etc). He is so gentle with the little ones but will get more excited with adults.
I definately could not have done puppy training and a toddler together…but if your papers are just about to go to China and you have 2 years - its a great way of passing the time if you desperately want a dog.
Being urban dwellers, I walk him everyday and now think I’m going to need more prams than I had with the first! Got to manage the outdoor rough bit and the city bit!
November 18th, 2006 at 10:49 am
Yuck! Just thinking of an older baby / toddler on the floor in a puppy-training house!
That said, we have 2 Border Collies (mom & son). We brought mom home at 8 weeks while DS #1 was 18 months, and it was OK. But…. she is the smartest dog, and so easy to housetrain (I can count all her accidents on 1 hand). We bred mom to whelp when DS #2 was 2. That was a messy ordeal with 7 puppies in my mudroom and two toddler boys!
I probably should mention we have a farm, so you don’t think I’m completely crazy with 2 Borders and 2 boys! So, if you don’t have a kennel, aren’t an animal freak or just plain nuts, I’d hold off on the puppy. My boys are begging for a puppy, but I think DH would leave us.
Its nuts…but fun.
November 18th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
Personally, I wouldn’t get a puppy. It wouldn’t be fair to the puppy or your new baby. We have 3 dogs, and before we began adopting, we discussed that they would not end up on the back burner LOL, and they haven’t. Neither one us wanted to adopt a baby or a small t oddler, as we know that they are just like puppies in some ways.
My husband has 4 adult sons, and has been through the baby stage, and I having taken care of my nieces and nephews knew that I did not want a baby.
Our first daughter was 2 years and 3 months,
and we taught her from the beginning to respect our dogs and that she was not to pull, tug or hit them, and she hasn’t.
Our son who has been home with us from China now for 6 months, he is guesstimated about 4 years old and is all boy. He is also respectful of the dogs and he LOVES them.
He is always gentle, but I think that is part of his nature. He is the ’sweetest’ little boy.
Our children are never left alone with dogs, ever, because they are dogs and not people and dogs can bite. Our dogs are all male and are very gentle, but you never know. The problem with crawling babies and very small toddlers they grab and hit alot, and you really have to be running around after them and the puppy to make sure they don’t hurt each other. Our dogs are treated the same before we had children, we don’t always get to do the things we planned with them and the children together, but they get the same amount of attention. Our children are always worried about them because they are elderly and one is deaf.
Now, we are thinking of a third child. We have been so blessed with our children, they are wonderful and have not had one problem with them with regards to attachment. They were definitely meant to be with us.
This time we will go the NSN’s route. However, we want an older child. Around 4-5 years, and am not sure if we would receive a referral for a child in this age range. I know a couple a few years ago, they were older, and they received a referral of a 6 month old, and the youngest couple in their group received a referral of a 15 month old.
They said after about a year that it was so tiring having a small baby LOL. She also said that her and her husband actually looked much younger than the youngest couple. I wonder if they go by what you look like when they match you up? Interesting.
Our agency received TA’s for all those families that have been waiting for SN’s TA’s.
Some were in 147 days of waiting.
November 19th, 2006 at 11:48 am
We just met with our SW to update our home study - when I asked her if we should let our fingerprints lapse with USCIS, she advised us not to. USCIS said we could but stressed re-doing them before they expire. Our USCIS is really quick with turnaround times. Our fingerprints expire in January and USCIS advised us to have them re-done in December. Knowing how I am about things - we are going to go ahead and renew them. Better to be safe than sorry I suppose. Our I-171H doesn’t expire until 7/07 - with an LID of 2/28 we will be doing that too, a little later. It makes it a little real again, for me anyway.
I agree with the dog comments - breed selection is key. Some dogs are better with children than others. I would give much thought before bringing a puppy into the home too close to bringing home a new baby or young child. It’s not fair to the puppy, the baby/young child or to you for that matter. Our lab Whitney was 9 when our son was born - she was great with him. After Whitney passed we waited a bit and when our son was just about to turn 4, we got our Maggie, another lab. He was old enough to understand not to pull on her ears and tail and she was young enough not to care when he did. She is very protective of him and he is great with her. The other thing that is key in buying a puppy is training, training, training. I know most people would agree that it’s important but I can think of several people very close to us that have never trained their dogs and its not pleasant for anyone involved. I took the time to train our dog and she is a pleasure to have around - or so we’ve been told :)
November 19th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Ah, animals - one of my favourite subjects.
Growing up, we lived on a busy street, so my parents didn’t think a dog was a good idea, but we always had at least two or three cats in the house - strays or rescued cats, of course. We were never allowed to tease the cats, dress them up!, or otherwise torment them. I am so grateful we had animals in the house when I was a kid. Leading by example, my parents taught us that our fellow creatures deserve just as much respect as humans do. And that value is a huge part of who I am, what I eat, what I wear, where I volunteer, etc. My DH and I have adopted a dog (yes, he’s have border collie and a whirlwind - but we love him to death) and two cats. Some day, preferably when we have a bigger house / bigger property, we’ll have more animals running around.
I know that my DH and I have some work to do with the dog before our daughter (our first child) comes home, and the cats, well, those poor things will be hiding under a bed for weeks!, but I’m confident we’ll all adjust.
I know animals will enrich our children’s lives and will hopefully teach our kids respect and compassion - and to enjoy every second of being alive - just like our dog does!
Jackie
LID May 2006
November 19th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Love the dog conversation and had to chime in… DH and I had an incredible Akita that we had to put to sleep at the age of 13 in February 06. I really thought she was going to be able to hang in to meet our daughter, so it was pretty hard on us when she was gone. I swore I would wait until after we had the baby for a year to six months before considering another dog. (Mind you - I am and always have been an animal lover since a child) I volunteered at the local “no kill” animal shelter and soon jointed the board of trustees. I saw alot of wonderful dogs, but one day I fostered this special five month old puppy and just knew she had the perfect personality. The wait was growing (our LID 8/24 - now have our referral). We immediately began training her and began working with a well-known local trainer (Kathy Santo, she was on Martha Stewart two weeks ago). Anyway, Maple is now one year old, very well trained (but still working at it diligently). The ironic part is that she is 2 months older than our daughter - and I am hoping they will grow up the best of friends. I am a big believer that animals can teach children incredible things, and they serve as a confidant for children as they grow. I know we could face some challenges, (asthma, allergies, etc) but I believe if introduced and handled correctly, dogs and children make great friends!
November 19th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
This is a great thread! I actually got my second dog - Enzo for several reasons. He is the best friend of Sophie, my 3 year old mix and should my daughter have asthma, allergies, etc - then they will keep each other company outside. They, like my future daughter, are my family and will be forever. Sophie is 3 and is very active, she looks like a black golden retriever, finally calming down - thank goodness!! Enzo is a little over one and is a golden. I bought my house for the yard - it was big enough for them. I am now working on the inside of the house for the baby. I do think, though they are family, one needs to be very aware that dogs think and react like dogs - for that reason there needs to be a plan on where and how the dogs and the baby will interact and the two will not be left alone toget