So much for that theory
There are several 9/9 and 9/10 LID groups of 3 and 4 people that did not get referred.
There are groups that are bigger than this that did get referred that are after 9/10.
That theory is all wet.
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Note from RQ: The section below is for comments from ChinaAdoptTalk.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with any particular comment just because I let it stand. Posts are generally only removed if they don't follow the rules of the site. Anyone who fails to comply with the rules of the site may lose his or her posting privilege. 39 Responses to “So much for that theory”Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. |
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December 5th, 2006 at 7:18 pm
What is going on over there???? Were there any families from the last batch that were skipped, but not asked questions, and still don’t have a referral? They must be sick with frustration. Is any info coming out from the agencies as too what is going on. It’s been several business days since referral started coming out. They must of had a chance to contact CCAA by now. This just keeps getting better and better, not!
December 5th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
Bizzare!!!!!!!!! I can not even begin to figure this one out! I am so sad for the families who were expecting referrals or just missed the cut off! I say we all go have a glass of red wine ( or a bottle ) and call it a night!
December 5th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Our agency had a group with a LID after the cut off referred…here’s what they had to say about it:
“There was a problem at CCAA during September 2005 resulting in some files being delayed in registration.”
Thought I should share that info…
DB
December 5th, 2006 at 8:40 pm
these last few months have been so out of sync from what we saw over the past year…geez. No wonder no one really knows what to think.
I think it’s funny the timing…or maybe I’m reading more into it than necessary. But about October/Nov of last year was when things seemingly started going goofy compared to what was going on.
One thing that the DW had brought up…and this is concerning ‘older referrals’ as a few people had mentioned in other threads. It seemed like our group’s referrals were around the same age roughly…Autumn’s B-day was 9/4/05 and then others were a month or so later, etc. It also seemed like most of the referral pics were taken in 5/06. so paperwork and referral pics were done (and perhaps sent to the CCAA?) roughly 4-5 months before they were matched to families (i.e. our group). I mean I don’t know…it might be common, but after seeing alot of under 12month referrals…
December 5th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
It is starting to sound like the only theory that is holding true here is that things got shuffled up during the move and they are still living with the after effects.
Hopefully it does not get any worse.
When was the move completed just so we know?
December 5th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
wow- great observation TG- or TG’s DW… So- it sounds like those Sept 05 babies had referral pictures taken at about 8 months old- and yet weren’t referred until 14 months old. So sad to think that those angels had to wait for their families to come get them (and just as sad for the families waiting!). I’m praying…
December 5th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
oh and I forgot to finish…duh…
so the DW thinks out loud and says…so what does this mean as far as the “not enough paper-ready babies” theory? just an ‘excuse’? perhaps. I still think there’s more to it…and that either the CCAA or the CCAA per the Ministry of Civil Affairs are intentionally slowing things down…purposefully not adopting as many children through IA for some reason. or something. who knows. just meandering thoughts. :)
December 5th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
tg/tg’s wife… i think you guys are totally on to something… now, while you’re in China, could ya do some shakin’ up for us? or, just find us our daughter????? puh-leeeeease??? :-) ha no, i think that is sooooo on though… the babies not being referred until waaaaay later… how sad. for everyone. now, what is your take on all these crazy referrals coming out of the sky? and going as far as into 9/14 LID’s???? CA-RAZY!!!
December 5th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
I’m wondering if it could mean that agencies that have a “better” relationship with the CCAA are getting preferential treatment??? Maybe not, since some agencies had LID’s skipped. This is crazy! But, when I was interviewing agencies, one agency imparticular made it sound like they had a specific relationship with a specific orphanage and that their program ran faster. They said that their program from start to finish took 5 - 6 months where everyone else said 8 - 10 months. I did a lot of reading between the lines, but this is what I felt was being implied. I know this is very unlikely, but the thought crossed my mind. It is so sad that these babies have to wait so long to meet their forever families!
Ziggy
LID June 6
December 5th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
Another thought crossed my mind. What if the babies that go to the domestic adoption program are put up for adoption, and sit in orphanages waiting for a Chinese family to adopt them. Then after a few months, if no Chinese family adopts them, then they are put into the IA program??? Who knows. I’m still curious if the requirements are the same for the domestic adoption program as they are for the IA program. Meaning: do they still have to wait 6 months after the finding ad is placed to be eligible?
Ziggy
LID June 6
December 5th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
RQ, from the responses you’ve received, do you have a guestimate on how many families were included past 9/8. At first, it seemed like a few but now it seems like this effected more families than I thought.
Michele
LID 9/26
December 5th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
TG-when do y’all leave for China? I had thought you were there now!
December 5th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
According to my agency, before the files go to CCAA there is a provincial authority approving them. They might have been waiting for the “all’s clear” after the problems in Hunan, and it may not have been the orphanage delaying the file.
PJM
LID 10/26 (with 46 LID’s in front of us) sounds like a lot when you say it that way :(
December 5th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
A note about the lag time between photos in a child’s dossier and the date of referral:
Back in 2004 when things were speeding up because they’d gotten to the dossiers logged in during the quota year of (basically) 2003, our daughter was 8.5 months old at referral — March 2004. But her pictures were taken in September 2003, about six months earlier, when she was about 3 months old.
So having a big gap between a baby’s file being started and the baby getting referred is not new.
Pam C
LID 9/9/05
December 5th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
Hi PJ Mama! I’m a 10/26er too!
I can tell you that we went to a group mtg at our small- to mid- china only agency on 10/1/05, just as we were about to go DTC, the director made reference to problems getting DTCs logged in in a timely fashion. She also mentioned that our agency was stepping forward (as were several other agencies - not sure of size or whether they were China only) to fund the hiring of several staff members to help get dossiers logged in properly or more timely. According to RQ’s poll results, you can see that there were very few LIDs in Sept, and then things appeared to stablize again in Oct and Nov. Our DTC was 10/05, and we were LID three weeks later. but I’ve seen a few folks here who had dtcs in the 9/twenties and have LIDs only a few days before mine. Not sure if/how DTCs might have been prioritized during this “DTC catch up” effort.
December 5th, 2006 at 10:59 pm
i think Pam you bring up an interesting thing…you mentioned the quota year. so do you think there’s a similarity between the situation then, where they had to initiate a quota because of the overwhelming amount of dossiers, etc compared to now?
I think it would be interesting to know the “gap” between when they work up the child’s paperwork and photos. I mean, with these recent referrals of say, 7-10month olds…when were their photos and paperwork done? And then compare that to last summer when the wait time was roughly 7months LID to Referral. Was the “gap” the same for those 7-10month old referrals?
It’s an interesting concept to me. Something maybe to figure out alittle bit perhaps? If it’s basically and uniformly the same for each child…that at “X” time they do up the paperwork and then at “X” time that’s all ‘approved’ and at the CCAA, then that’s all there is to it. But if during the quota times and then now if there’s a larger gap compared to other times, then to me it seems like there’s something beyond just standard practice. IF a child’s photo and papers are started at one point, but not referred until several months later…why would it take so long? At what point are they “paperready”?
December 5th, 2006 at 11:02 pm
oh, and sorry Kimber I almost forgot! *smack’s head*…lol we leave 6am mt. time Thursday for Hong Kong. :)
December 5th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
ziggy - Our agency has a “special” relationship with one of the orphanages, but it doesn’t get them faster or better service from CCAA.
Our agency makes a charitable contribution to this orphanage and about 50 percent of its referrals are from this one place. Our agency director has no direct knowledge that this is the reason why they go there so often, but it seems to be a contributing factor. I think they chose this orphanage because it is one of the largest and has the greatest need–not because the babies are better or healthier or anything.
Since mine is a relatively small agency, my guess is that a lot of agencies in this country make a similar contribution. And
rest assured that the families at my agency wait just as long as everyone else for their referrals.
December 5th, 2006 at 11:38 pm
Our small agency has a relationship with 2 orphanages - does not affect the time to referral at all. It seems I should have about a 95% chance of returning to the province where my daughter is from, and I feel happy about that.
My daughter’s photos were from June 15th 2001 and I received her referral on August 23 2001. So at least two months to get through the province, to Beijing and through the matching room.
TG - Bon Voyage - the best trip of your life is about to begin!
PJM LID 10/26
December 5th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
thx PJM!
December 6th, 2006 at 12:10 am
We adopted our first dd in Aug. ‘04 when she was 13 months old. Her referral pictures were taken when she was only 5 months old.
This time around our dd is 12 months old and her referral pics were taken when she was 7 months old.
Both my dd’s are from rural areas of China. My theory is that the doctors only visit the SWI’s twice a year - so the pics are taken when they have their medicals.
Oh and by the way…we leave next Thursday to bring our sweet baby home :-)
December 6th, 2006 at 12:35 am
PJ Mama and Klem,
Thank you for answering my question. I’m curious if my agency does the same thing. I’ll have to ask next time I talk with them.
Ziggy
LID June 6
December 6th, 2006 at 12:59 am
You go (sebago) girl!
PJM
December 6th, 2006 at 1:02 am
TG,
WHen did you get your referral. I thought you were a 11-2 referral and if that is the case then you are traveling in about a month from referral!! WOW!!! That is fast. We have a referral from our agency (tiny agency in so cal) who was a 11-2 referral and is leaving on Dec 8. They are traveling in just a little over a month. Good for you guys and I wish you wonderful travels as you go to pick up your baby for the first time. I am so excited for you!!!
Christy
10-17-05
http://www.bock.redthreadkids.org
December 6th, 2006 at 6:41 am
When we adopted our first (many years ago) her pictures and paperwork were done seven weeks before we received her referral.
December 6th, 2006 at 7:17 am
about 4 months between photos, etc, and referral for my daughter’s paperwork in fall 2002
December 6th, 2006 at 8:14 am
my daughter had paperwork and foto’s done twice, at 3 months and at 6 months and at referraldate she was 10 months.
December 6th, 2006 at 8:22 am
You know, I really try not to think too hard about this one. If it do, it just makes me mad. Surely there is SOME bit of logic as to why these families got referrals. I mean, I am VERY happy for the families AND for the children that have their families coming soon, but still… what about the others on those days that didn’t get matched yet? Sigh….
CCAA, what in the WORLD is your thinking????
His,
Mrs. U
LID 9-12-05- NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.makingahouseahome.blogspot.com
December 6th, 2006 at 8:23 am
I have a theory as to why some agencies with earlier log in dates were skipped…Going by RQ’s post on the review room, maybe the matching department is similar to the review room, where each agency is assigned a “matcher” and they complete the files only for their specific agencies. Maybe this person was ill or had a family emergency and was unable to complete the matching process before referrals were set to be sent. I understand one agency had referrals received with a later LID and an earlier LID was missed. Maybe the “matcher” was in process (had enough baby files for all), but was going by group size, family requests, etc and got out of order due to these reasons. Maybe they were going to go back and finish the in between dates but something came up before that could happen.
Of course, this would only make sense if we could tell which agencies were assigned a specific matcher and which agencies were skipped over.
Just trying to make sense of it all when I suppose there is really no way to do that with only bits and pieces.
Hoping all is resolved with the next batch. My heart goes out to those of you skipped. After such a long, hard wait you really didn’t deserve this!
Julie
LID 9/29 …. referral late Jan ?????
December 6th, 2006 at 9:54 am
My agency (small multi country) mentioned in their last email that the CCAA has a cap on how many adoptions they are allowed to do per month. They can only match 1500. So (according to my agency) if there are only 1300 babies paper ready that month than only 1300 would be matched. There is no rollover from one month to the next. If there were 1700 babies paper ready, still only 1500 of them would be allowed to be matched. I’m wondering 1) if this is true and 2) if it IS true are some of the after 9/8 people who got referrals “accidents” in that there were more babies paper ready than the 1500 allowed for this month and they weren’t supposed to be sent until NEXT month’s batch of 1500. Hopefully I worded that to make sense. Just a thought.
December 6th, 2006 at 10:18 am
WOW! Has anyone else heard anything like crazy4emily’s agency is saying?
RQ - do those numbers (1500) sound like they could be true?
December 6th, 2006 at 10:19 am
We got our referral Nov. 2nd for our daughter that is currently 10 months. Her paperwork was finished Aug. 19 so about 3 months or less…
We leave Friday for Guangzhou–whooooo hoooo-I can’t believe it.
December 6th, 2006 at 11:03 am
TG and givemegrace: In 2004, our daughter’s referral picture was taken when she was 3 1/2 mos old and she wasn’t referred to us until she was over 9 mos old. I don’t think the age of the referral picture means anything.
December 6th, 2006 at 11:14 am
Pam C, TG, et al,
With our first daughter, there was about 4 months between physical exam, photos, and referral. This was during the time of 2 months of LIDs to one month of referrals. In our group from Hunan, all the girls’ birthdays were within 4-5 weeks of each other, in fact i think we had 3 first brithdays while we were there.
PT
December 6th, 2006 at 11:16 am
Oops, one more thing, TG. I hope you guys have a fabulous trip! Since we are using the same agency, I would love to hear all about the Hong Kong portion of your trip (after, of course, the most important reason you are there). :o)
PT
December 6th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
okay–as of yesterday my agency sd they had still not received anything re: my referral or anyone else within the cut off. they expected to receive at least something re: somebody/anybody within the cutoff just had not received anything yet. my date is 9/6/05. should i still hold out hope of a referral from this batch? any thoughts?
December 6th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Hi everyone. I’m a newbie–awaiting my December ‘06 LID. I just wanted to share another confusing detail: part of an { specific travel group } group with an 8/26/05 LID is still awaiting referrals. Part of the group received referrals already.
{Edited by RQ: Thanks for the information, but please do not mention agencies on the blog or forum. See the FAQ for more information about why this is}
December 6th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
FWIW,
I received my daughter’s referral on 12/1 and her photo was taken 9/1. Three month differece…not that long. TG and I are with the same agency. In this last batch, there were some as young as 6 months!!!! Yikes! and as old as over 3 years. No logic.
TG and G_of _TG-
good luck and PLEASE post from China. We, Auggie Remainders, are right behind you.
Laureen
December 6th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
I’ve forgotten if this was reported…were those after 9/9/05 who received referrals ones who had much earlier DTC dates and so it looks like CCAA was just trying to correct their LIDs?