The Big Meeting
The CCAA yearly meeting with all of the agencies happened last night (U.S. time).
We have information out of the meeting from one agency, a reputable agency that is trustworthy. I will feel better when we have this coming from more than one agency, but I have no reason to doubt the information that this agency is giving. They give information from their notes of the meeting and state that the CCAA will be issuing a formal statement at a later date. Again, it will be interesting to see what other agencies have to say about the meeting and compare their notes.
They state that the number of dossiers is 2 times the number of children the CCAA has to place. The wait time from LID to referral will not shorten at this time and it may get longer. They note that the CCAA does not define what they mean by longer. I note that they don’t say the number of dossiers is twice the number of children, but twice the number of children the CCAA has to place - I believe we are still talking about paper ready children and not total children.
They state that the following requirements will be in place for all dossiers accepted after May 1, 2007. Read that again - for all dossiers accepted after that date. If your dossier is in by that date then presumably you are okay under the current rules. The new rules are stated to be:
- Married couples only. No singles. Agencies may continue to submit singles dossiers within their 8% constraints until May 1, 2007 and then the CCAA will not accept any more single dossiers.
- Married couples must be married over 2 years if there are no previous marriages. If there are previous marriages then the present marriage must be over 5 years. However, no more than two previous marriages will be allowed (it is unclear if this is two per person or two per couple)
- Each parent must be 30 to 50 years old. No parent can be outside of this range. Upper limit can be 55 for a family in the waiting child program (and that “can be” kind of looks like it’s going to be on a case by case basis, not an absolute, but it’s hard to tell).
- The CCAA wants healthy parents - no infectious disease, no mental disease (including depression or anxiety), no blindness, and no serious disease or disability. There is a note about waiting to see what the CCAA’s formal notice says, which sounds to me like they hope there will be more information in the formal notice about these things. There is another note that cancer was not specifically mentioned.
- Both parents must have a BMI under 40.
- At least one parent must have a stable job. Income requirement is $10,000 per family member including the child to be adopted.
- Family’s net assets must be over $80,000
- Each parent must have a high school education or higher.
- No more than five children in the home including the child to be adopted. The youngest child in the home must be over 1 year old. Exceptions will be considered for the waiting child program.
- No criminal record. There is a note about the CCAA not elaborating so we will again have to wait to see what the formal notice says.
- The CCAA fees are also changing - going from $410 to $620.
There are also some notes about the Waiting Children’s Program. It sounds like there will be a category between the current NSN and SN categories for children with low birth wait and developmental delays. Fees will be the same as for the NSN program but the wait time will be closer to the SN program.
Also, they will be launching the internet waiting children project in February. The CCAA is still working on the project and more details will be available later.
And last but certainly not least - the CCAA will be launching a new email communication tool that will be open to agencies that want to pay a fee to participate.
I am putting all of the information that I have out here. This is all I know. I do not have time right now to deal with 400 question in my inbox of “this is my situation what do you think?”. What I think is that this is the first information and it is probably going to be pretty close to what comes from the CCAA, but it may not be exact. Also, if you are already logged in then you are okay for this child - we are told that these rules will be for people who submit their dossier after May 1, 2007.
December 8th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
Thank you for posting so quickly RQ and for everything you do. It is great to know there will be a date for implementing new requirements. Hopefully reviewers will not apply these sooner at their own discretion :)
December 8th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Thank you RQ! Enjoy your weekend. :-)
December 8th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
“The CCAA fees are also changing - going from $410 to $620″
Is this for SN? I thought under the NSN program the fees were already $610 and the SN program fees were $420
December 8th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Wow. My agency is planning a conference call in a few weeks and I’m guessing this is going to be the discussion. I know we’re safe (LID 08/06) but knowing I’d be rejected from future adoptions makes me feel kind of ill. I also wonder if these new attitudes will affect our matching process in any way. I know why the CCAA is putting these limits into affect, but I have to admit that I’m a bit angry at them for it. If there are any would-be mommies out there who struggled with infertility and not suffered from some form of depression or anxiety as a result … well, enough said. We pretty much figured our little China Baby would be an only child, but now we know for sure she won’t have a little sister from her homeland.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:01 pm
WOW!!! CCAA is getting strict. I am shocked they are basically not allowing singles to adopt after May 1. Also, I am glad they finally admitt that the wait is going to continue to increase. I am not happy it is not going to decrease but I am glad agencies now know and cannot give false hope to families. I am just happy I am an Oct LID and know it is going to be soon.
Keep your chin up all the 2006 LID’ers.
Christy
10-17-06
http://www.bock.redthreadkids.org
December 8th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Thank you RQ - bad news for some, but I figured at some point they’d have to enforce more parameters in order to scale down the number of applicants. Sad for the babies still waiting. I wish they’d start working with more orphanages! Geeezzzz. I’m single and LID 5/18/06 - Whew!
December 8th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
As a single, I guess I don´t have to worry about the long wait in Chine any more. I´m not going to be a parent. after 5 years of infertility treatment, 2 years just waiting to send my papers to China I guess this is it. 7 longs years and this is how it ends.
Congratulations all of you with a LID or a soon to be LID.
catharina
December 8th, 2006 at 1:13 pm
wow - this is huge news. thank you rq for sharing and explaining it all. i wonder what the new rules will do for those already logged in. i understand that the new rules won’t apply, but i wonder if those who would now not qualify will pull out the applications (ie., they want two children, and since they won’t be eligible to adopt a second from china, they will switch countries altogether so both of their children will be from the same country).
December 8th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Well…I’m certainly glad to finally have some solid information from them although these new requirements will eliminate some very good parents from adopting from China. I’m already thinking into the future and wondering how long it will take to see a drop in wait time for a referral after this goes into effect. I’m also glad it gives singles some time to get things together if they are just about to start the process
December 8th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
catharina:
I’m so sorry….words just cannot soothe, I know.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
First time poster… The only positive news is that at least we now know the wait is not going to get any shorter for a while. With a Jan. 2006 LID I can hope for a referral for this summer. Overall, this is a really sad day and a lot of people’s dreams are going to be changed forever. I think eventually the wait will dramatically decrease because these new rules will make so many people inelgible to adopt from China. I feel so fortunate that we will be able to bring home a sister but it is so tainted by the fact that so many other people who are eligible once will no not be again. Why not make more orphanages open to international adoption? Why allow so many children to grow up in orphanages?
December 8th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Hmm….
The high school education requirement would mean that a farmer, smith, mechanic, waiter, cook, etc. would not be able to adopt fra China or am I lacking knowledge concerning high school ? Is the education for each type of trade as those mentioned above included in the term high school ? In my country high school is where people that want to study more afterwords attend. E.g. if they want to study to become a economist, priest, nurse…etc..
fridahope
December 8th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
Catharinastockholm:
Don’t give up yet! I know your heart is breaking, and being a single parent myself, it breaks my heart that I will not be able to adopt again from China.
There are other countries with children in need of a loving parent. Your child may be waiting for you there instead of China.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
I’m not going to try to be a math whiz here, just throw out some for instances: If singles are only 8% of, let’s say, 20,000 or so dossiers, that is only 1600 people, or a little over 2 months of referrals. This isn’t going to cause much of a speed up. The other restrictions need to effect another 8%ish of the applicants EACH to start really shortening the wait time.
Thanks to the agency that moved quickly to give their people, and all of us, clear information in a straightforward manner. We appreciate your caring.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
fridahope — in the U.S., “high school” is generally years 9-12 (ages 15-18) of school. Then folks go to trade school or college from there to train or educate further.
Pam C
9/9/05 LID
December 8th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
I’ve been thinking of the numbers, too.
I’m thinking that if they say no depression or anxiety and it is an absolute, then this could easily knock out one third to one half of the people adopting from the U.S. Not sure about other countries.
The rest of the new rules combined could probably knock out at least a third of the people currently eligible.
So, if these are absolutes then that could reduce the eligible parents to less than half of the current number. And that’s probably what they are wanting to do. Unfortunately.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Hi Pam C
Thanks…in my country people can go to trade school after 9 years of school (age 15-16) -sounds like you can do that to.
Would trade school equal high school in this sense I wonder ?
fridahope
December 8th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
catharina, I’m so sorry. Please don’t give up entirely. There are other countries out there still willing to work with those of us who or single or somehow “less than perfect.”
sympathy,
bridgette
December 8th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
Thanks for the update RQ. I read daily but this is my first post. I do appreciate all the time you spend on this blog. I wish that the CCAA had other methods for dealing with the high number of people trying to adopt…..
December 8th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
Thank you, RQ, for the up-to-date information. I don’t know what we’d do without your savvy analyses and astute knowledge of this process.
You’re amazing and we appreciate you very much.
Knowledge is power, even when it’s not what we want to hear, because we can respond accordingly.
Sincere gratitude beaming your way.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
Catrina,
Look into Vietnam.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
I’m glad that my husband and I have already decided that our baby we get will be an only child. I’m not going thru this again and we’re not getting any younger.
Catharinastockholm - - -don’t give up. If you were meant to be a parent then you will be a parent. There is an estimated 143 million orphans in the world and I am sure that there is a child in this world that needs you as their parent.
jennifer
LID 09-16-05
p.s. puppy update….8 girls and 2 boys. the mamma dog is doing a great job of feeding and caring for them all. its really amazing to see her give each puppy special attention.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
I’ll be interested to hear what they say regarding anxiety/depression. Will it be that you can have no history of it, not currently being treated for it, or haven’t been treated for it in x years….
hmmmmm…..
December 8th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
This is so scary and sad! We will be ok for now - were just DTC 11/16/06. But my husband just turned 47 yesterday - so a second child would be difficult for us unless the wait times go down a lot. It would be nice if they would still let over 50’s adopt older children.
I feel so bad for singles. For many years I really didn’t know if I would ever marry or not - its just by chance that I am or I would be trying to adopt as a single too.
Do you really think that many people won’t meet the new requirements? I wonder how many are affected by the net assets thing?
December 8th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Wow….the depression thing is a big deal. I am surprised they are even putting it out there. Lets face it, there’s “depressed” and then there is “DEPRESSED” and there is a difference. So the person who was a slightly depressed at one point in his/her life, went on Paxil and is now off of it and fine, is out of the running. Same as the person who can’t get out of bed in the AM because of the severity of their depression. Its kind of sad really. Makes me wonder how many people will lie on their applications/dossiers.
That’s really sad about the singles. I don’t understand that requirement.
Thanks for the info. It will be interesting to see what my agency has to say…..
December 8th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Thanks for posting this info.
Interesting that they’re putting a solid number on “net assets.” This may knock us out for our 2nd adoption which we planned to begin next spring. We rent so we have no house-related assets. If we add up all our retirement savings and other savings we come up short of $80,000. I wonder if you can add up everything you own (furniture, power tools, engagement ring, car, refrigerator, and so on)–seems silly to try to nickel and dime like that that but it might get us up to $80,000. I just don’t know if that would fly or not. Our income is within the guideline and we have no debt/liabilities (other than monthly rent) but the $80,000 may do us in. :(
December 8th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
Thanks for the information RQ! It is making things look clearer and clearer. I just hope that I can get through this wait without losing my mind. It is really tough. I know I have been waiting almost 9 months, but I am so tempted to try another country like Taiwan, where you can literally be home in less than 8 months. Of course it is much more expensive, and means a agency change, but I am starting to think at the rate we are going, this child will be pushing me around the nursing home in my wheelchair! With a 3-28-06 LID, hopefully it will be on the shorter end of the wait scale, but I am bracing for the worst.
December 8th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
I have been reading this site for a few months now, my wife and I have a LID of 3 Nov 06 so our journey will hopefully end soon…….or start soon depending on how you look at it. :-)
I have just read the comments about new rules for China and looking at the increased demand worldwide, they make sense to me.
Before everyone jumps down my throat, think of it this way….YOU are giving YOUR child up for adoption and you have to choose suitable parents. Do you lean towards a married couple or single female? Do you pick the $20k a year salesman or the $50k a year professional? Do you pick a healthy younger couple that has an active lifestyle or an obese couple? How about the childless couple or the family with 6 kids? Think about these conditions this way and you can’t be upset. They are thinking about these children and what is what we consider to be best case scenario. It’s not personal, just methodical. In the real world this may not be a best case but statistically speaking it is.
My wife and I tried domestic, 2 years on a waiting list with not a word from our Christian agency. We opted for them instead of China originally because of a recommendation from our non Christian case worker that they were desperate for families. It seemed like a sign to fill that need. It was obviously a sign that we needed more time.
So we submitted our China file when we had to renew our documentation….told it would be 6 to 8 months to travel…..I guess we weren’t ready to be parents then yet since it is 14 months later. Frustrating, angry, discouraged, you bet. Maybe we are not meant to be parents.
FYI, with the new guidelines in China we would still qualify but just barely. I am overweight, extremely fit and probably in better shape than the average 30 year old (I am 43) but I am considered obese. I would make it under the wire though. I can understand how people can be angry with these rules but they truly are trying to get the best people for the job of parenting. We would all do whats best for our child.
I feel sorry for singles that have been trying to adopt. I don’t necessarily agree that they should be able to but I still feel for them. I know the disappointment they must feel.
Sorry if I offended anyone, I am just stating my opinion on the subject. We are all entitled to my opinion….oops I meant your opinion! :-)
Hoping for a special batch before CNY!!
Dave
December 8th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
My husband will be 47 in 2 weeks and we are not expecting our referral until the summer (LID 12/14) so it makes a 3rd baby nearly impossible unless they stop your age clock when you are LID. I’m only 34 so it’s hard to swallow being knocked out of the running so early on in my eligablity. Good thing I love my husband. :)
December 8th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
I knew there was something I was forgetting that I should be putting onto a “possible new rules” post.
I forgot the reminder to not discuss whether we think the rules are right or wrong. We don’t get a say in what the rules are going to be, we just have to live with what China decides, so tearing each other apart because some don’t think fat people should be parents (yeah, we had that) is not very constructive.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
rmcel, you have got to be kidding, right? This is not the place to debate although I would very much like to! HOWEVER, If I was giving my baby up for adoption I would be looking for the loving family (married or not) that could bring my baby up in an enviroment of love. I wouldn’t care if they had the six figure job with the comfortable nest egg. Because believe me not all those people are happy loving people.
My husband and I have no worries if we were submitting our application in May 07 we fit the new rules that is not the point!
I would be lead to believe these new rules weren’t put into place because they think the people that fall into those rules make better parents, they were put into place so that the number of qualified people decreases. The fact is the average family/person adopting is a middle family income family who wants a baby…bottom line!
December 8th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
“I’m thinking that if they say no depression or anxiety and it is an absolute, then this could easily knock out one third to one half of the people adopting from the U.S.”
only if you admit it. more restrictions mean more white lies.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
I feel almost physically sick about this.
If I were choosing a family for a child - yes, I might very well pick a single over a married couple.
jennifer - we are in St. Louis too - what do the puppies look like?
It makes me sad to think we won’t be able to adopt twice - we don’t have big families and what family we do have isn’t close by - I just don’t want our daughter to not have family.
I quite a big younger than my husband too - so that age thing is hard.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
Right on RQ!
December 8th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
How will they know if you have depression or anxiety. I have both, and I plan on adopting again. There are ways around some of these regulations. If you do not take medication and switch doctors they will never know. I am sorry, but there are way to many children out their in my opinion for them to be so picky. I agree, there are some lies that are acceptable to me if they save a life or join families together. Let’s all promise to not tell!
December 8th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
These new rules are very sad indeed.
RQ or anyone else - years ago the adoption rules for International families were the same as rules for domestic Chinese adoptions. Is that still the case or are they different now?
December 8th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Dave,
At this time, with these news being devestating and maybe life changing for so many of us, your opionion isn´t very supportive. So please respect everyone, obese, single, not rich etc. We all want the same thing, to adopt, raise and love a child. I am sure that I as a single monther I would do a much better job at raising a child then an orphange doing it.
China is in a situation where they can “pick and choose” and I do understand the new restrictions. What is hurtfull is the fact that so many of us are considered OK as parents when China need us to be, and when times changes we are not.
To everyone else, thank you so much for your supportive words. I will look into Vietnam which looks to be my only other option. but there are very few adoptions from Vietnam here in Sweden and with china being closed for singles I guess I´m in for another few years wait. It feels like this just wasn´t meant to be.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:19 pm
I, too, am interested in how they will define depression/anxiety. Diagnosis, length of treatment, type of treatment, etc. My husband and I are beginning to consider adoption after a few unsuccessful fertility treatments. I did see an infertility counselor (a DSW, not PhD or MD) for about 9 months. There was never a diagnosis of depression, but these services were billed to and covered by my health insurance as “mental health services.” That could be a red flag, couldn’t it?
December 8th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
The CCAA was supposedly going to implement rules almost identical (if not identical) to those listed above a couple of months ago–and we had heard about them from multiple sources and they seemed like such a sure thing. And then China’s Civil Affairs office shot them down. So what’s different now, and how sure are we at this point that the rules outlined in the one reliable agency’s memo are fact at this point? If what the agency reported turns out to be true, then I guess it’s just that Civil Affairs objected to the timing rather than the content of the CCAA’s rule changes, or wanted them to get more specific with the requirements or something. I don’t want to be in denial, but I’m taking the reported new regs without a huge grain of salt at this point.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
I mean taking the new regs with a huge grain of salt. Sorry, Friday brain.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
I knew that I would get the loving caring single story……..all things being equal……would you prefer a happily married family over a single? I would guess 90% of people would…….I’m not knocking singles, just being realistic. Yes there are bad married rich people and good poor fat people and so so gay peole and ……..the list goes on………just look at it objectively with all things being equal……they pick what most of the population would consider as preferred “qualities”. Doesn’t make it right, but it seems to be the new way.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
CWS- I’m with you on this… do we even know if the Ministry for Civil Affairs has approved these changes? RQ- any insight on that?
December 8th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
I am so sorry for all the families worried right now. I hope clear information comes out soon. Dave, I’m sure you meant well, but no, these are no guidelines I would use in picking a home for my child. They are superifical and shallow. How does one quantify love, self-sacrifice, encouragement, respect?
gen LID 3/7/06
December 8th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
Catharina,
Ohh, I feel so bad. Of all the stories, as a single mom myself, this just strikes a cord. I adopted as a single in 2001 and I have a DTC for 11/25/06, no LID yet and still a single. I was concerned I would not be able to adopt from China as well and still am a bit nervous as I have no LID and a long way from the review room. I just don’t know what to say other than please don’t give up. I know I would need someone telling me not to give up. There is a child out there that will be so very lucky to get you as a mom….they just don’t know it yet. Your day will come, it just has to. I don’t want to go into my feelings about the new rule as this is out of our control however, I do feel compelled to apologize for those with less than adequate amount of tact and feeling. You will be a great single mom to a very lucky child someday!
With heartfelt sympathy,
2fromchina
December 8th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Just want to send my cyber support to all those that this news is causing pain to.
Abi 9/15/05 for my first child.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
I wonder too if you have a PAST history of anxiety/depression would you be totally disqualfied. Like way, way back in high school or something with no recurrence?
Like the person said above, just switch doctors.
This really gets me - China expects people not to have any anxiety or depression issues, but look at the stress they are putting us through. I mean, how many people have developed anxiety or depression through this process?
Lets face it, no one is perfect, families just want to love a child, thats all.
We want to adopt a 2nd from China and would meet all the qualifications to do it again, but I just don’t think we can deal with China again.
December 8th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
I believe that we become so passionate and obsessed with the adoption application, process and path that we end up, early on, saying and telling way too much and giving way too much information to everyone. This includes family, doctors and agencies. I happen to like vague answers. My agency and the CCAA didn’t seem to mind either……
December 8th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
I’m just floored.
I remember way back early in 2006 reading some WAG of a rumor that China wanted to stop IA altogether, and someone responded that it was going to be 2010 or later before that happened and we’d all be able to complete this adoption and possibly another before then. It kind of hit me today that we are looking at 2-3 years for referral for current LIDs. April 2007 could look at April 2010 for their referral, and then that sort of coincides with that comment a long time ago. Starting with May 2007 LID getting a referral in 2010 and IA from China would slow to a trickle, which is sad to me. Does anyone else remember something like this, or did I dream this?
We qualify I think, but I feel so badly for everyone here whose dreams are being shattered.
Carla - LID 9/14/06
December 8th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Catrina,
Your little girl or boy could be in Vietnam. If the China door had closed on me, which could have happened because I almost waited another year to start the process, I would have adopted from Vietnam. Good luck.
Vicki
December 8th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
RMCL please do not speak for the 90% of people! Just speak for yourself!
I think you would find you would be pretty much alone with your thinking.
Everyone else, I really think we need to wait for official word to come in before singles jump of the ship! A lot could still happen!
December 8th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
My agency just contacted me via email and said they have heard NO word at all from China regarding any changes.
My new campaign: hanging on to hope.
Future single mom to Macey…I hope.
KRJ
December 8th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Well this definitely cinches it for us.
DH and I will not be adopting a second child from China. We have only been married for a little over 2 years and we both have a previous marriage/divorce.
Never mind the fact that since we both had experienced a failed marriage that we chose to date for 2 years before getting married and that we did a lot of soul searching and worked through a lot of pre-marital—life “what ifs†questions.
We simply do not want to wait that long to add another child. DH will likely turn 40 before we travel to get our first baby and we had agreed to finish expanding our family by the time he turned 40. At this point, I’m not even sure how he will feel about a second adoption—but if we do adopt a second child, which I would like, I know he will want to begin the process as soon as possible. I guess I’ll start looking more seriously at Vietnam and Ethiopia.
On the age issue—I mean no ill-will or anything toward folks who adopt that are older. We feel there is no right or wrong—only what is right for an individual or a couple.
So sorry for our single friends and all others whose lives will be affected by these rules.
Feeling kinda bummed right now.
LID 12/20/05
December 8th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Well this definitely cinches it for us.
DH and I will not be adopting a second child from China. We have only been married for 2 years and we both have a previous marriage/divorce.
Never mind the fact that since we both had experienced a failed marriage that we chose to date for 2 years before getting married and that we did a lot of soul searching and worked through a lot of pre-marital—life “what ifs†questions.
We simply do not want to wait that long to add another child. DH will likely turn 40 before we travel to get our first baby and we had agreed to finish expanding our family by the time he turned 40.
At this point, I’m not even sure how he will feel about a second adoption—but if we do adopt a second child, which I would like, I know he will want to begin the process as soon as possible.
On the age issue—I mean no ill-will or anything toward folks who adopt that are older. We feel there is no right or wrong—only what is right for an individual or a couple.
So sorry for singles and all others who will be affected by the new rules.
Feeling kinda bummed right now.
LID 12/20/05
December 8th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
Catharina, please don’t give up. I’m a single, too. I have one daughter from China and an LID of 11/05 for my second, so I know our situations are much different. But there are a lot of children out there waiting for a mom. Many of my friends are looking into Ethopia, for example. The wait is 7 months, TOTAL! (Probably my option for my 3rd daughter). Grieve, b/c you have to, but then I hope you will find a new direction.
Dave, maybe you can find a support group to help you with your problems.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
In the past the age of the mother has always been the deciding factor in cases of ‘younger mom/older dad’. I was in that situation for first adoption in 2001 and also now (LID 11/05). Hopefully this will continue even if new rules are implemented. However, you may have to be open to an older child.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
I feel so sad for so many people right now. I held my breath while I read the list and think we are alright but it could have just as easily not been alright for us personally. I think that they are doing a “quota” by setting these new rules. I think that while I am am saddened by them I also understand them because they had to do something to address the issue of the wait. I would also like to say that if you are disqualified by the new list, do not give up on being a parent. There are other programs and other countries that you can adopt from. My heartfelt condolences to those that this effects.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
rmcl-
“I feel sorry for singles that have been trying to adopt. I don’t necessarily agree that they should be able to but I still feel for them. I know the disappointment they must feel.”
Huh????
You don’t necessarily agree that they should be able to???
So VERY confused by view.
Laureen
( a VERY grateful SINGLE mom-to-be to Isabel Grace …who turns one today!)
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
December 8th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Dave,
Your “insights” are not at all helpful. In fact, they are hurtful to those of us who are pretty devastated at this news. And you are not right in your assumptions either. If I had a child to give up, the first 3 qualifications on my list would not be that they be rich, thin, and married. I would seek out those with a loving nature, compassion, trustworthiness, kindness, maturity, and intelligence first. They would need to have good overall health (but a few minor issues would not deter me).
But see, China can’t quantify most of those things. So they choose the things they can quantify in order to reduce the number of applicants - assets, BMI, marriage status, etc. But those are not the issues that automatically make someone a better parent. They are just the issues that are measurable and easy to look at on paper.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
The new regs, if they go into effect, will really limit new applicants. With the CCAA assured of limits, and assured that they won’t be swamped as they were last time it was a 6 month wait, is it possible they will “find” more paper ready children for those of us waiting in line now. Could we see new regs followed by a slight speed up and a leveling off at about a year or so? This wouldn’t help anyone LID through Spring of ‘06 but might help the later ‘06ers.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
The very reason we chose international adoption was because the most important qualification was that the family (married or single, rich or poor, skinny or fat) wanted to give a loving home to a child. Unfortunately, these new rules will prevent some great people from giving that gift to a child from China. I don’t agree with many of the “new†requirements, but they are what they are. Beating each other up is not the way to be supportive and it is not going to change the CCAA. They do not care what we think.
Fortunately there ARE other programs out there that all the “parents to be†will still qualify for. If you truly want to be a parent then that is what you will be. “Catharinastockholm†please don’t give up. You may still be able to get your paperwork in by the deadline.
And because there are other programs out there, that is where our second child will come from. Of all the rules for my husband and I not to qualify it would be the new BMI rule. We are married (obviously), we make very good money so the net assets requirement would not affect us, we have no children, we’ll have been married 5 years, we are in the correct age range, we are both healthy, education requirement is met, can’t imagine what the change to the criminal background check is. Anyway – the only new requirement we will not meet is the BMI. Like “rmcel†my husband is very healthy, but if you just look at a BMI – he is severely obese…what he is, is a person who enjoys lifting weights and most of his weight is muscle not fat. But a BMI does not take that into consideration, it only looks at height and weight. Hopefully the BMI rule will have some “wiggle†room – otherwise my daughter will be an only child or we will adopt from another country – which is not what we wanted. We wanted our children to have similar heritage – so they would have that commonality growing up. Something they shared together.
I know to many this feels like the end of the world and my heart goes out to everyone, but just remember – “When one door closes, another opens. Keep your minds open to all the possibilities – you could be amazed at what you see.†I know it sounds a bit cliché – but remembering it has truly worked for us in this long process.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
Wow. My heart goes out to everyone that is worrying about this new information. DH and I are planning to adopt from China again, even with the wait ……… I guess we had better get going!
December 8th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Since people are mentioning other country programs, I’ll chime in. Two friends of mine are looking at an African program that takes only 3 months to adopt an infant. Whoever said earlier that the world is (unfortunately) full of children who need parents was completely right. The programs are just a little harder to find and navigate.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
I understand the need to limit the number of dossiers so that the CCAA can “catch up” on the backlog, but by the time these changes go into effect and eventually affect the wait time, a few more years will have passed. If they are truly looking at the best interests of their children, the best thing would be to allow more children to be adopted by the loving families who want them. It’s just too bad that in the end, there are still so many children without families and so many families without children. How is that a solution?
December 8th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
amycate-
second your post- as a single at 39 who has thought long and hard, and saved and planned, and waited until I felt ready, mind, body, spirit, bank account- it would be devastating not to be able to share all that I have to offer with a child. And that bank account is not big, it’s enough to get me to China…and for whatever reason, that has been the place I’ve been drawn too, and it may seem shallow, but it would be VERY hard to let go of that again- (was 3 months from referral for my first when the divorce subject came up)…
As for what I would look for, again, I second amycate- single, overweight, past hx of depression, would NOT at all deter me- often the strongest, best parents are those that have faced huge challenges (and know how to manage a crisis with little or no help- hello single parents)!
Kris
December 8th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
Wow,
My husband and I should have our LID some time this month and will be ok. But my heart goes out to everyone here. I think that we are all in shock.
To Dave, I know that you are making what you think are logical points.
But when it comes to couples who have struggled and are waiting for a baby, some who have spent years in infertility treatment, this just isn’t the time or place for the logic talk.
There are hearts breaking and people afraid of losing their babies. It is hard to explain, but when you make the decision to adopt, that day your heart and mind declare that you are a parent and that your child is waiting for you and you will do anything to get to them and bring them home.
Today people have become scared that there may be nothing they can do to get them home.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
First of all…thank you RQ for the rules you enforce regarding this sort of discussion. I have my own opinions but this is simply not the place.
I feel so sorry for everyone this is affecting, which includes myself. I think there is now a “new normal” of International Adoption. My own personal sense is that the number of parents wanting to adopt healthy children (local private adoption, or IA) is forever going to significantly exceed the number of children available. I will be shocked if these changes result in a significant reduction in the number of people applying. I think there will still be a lot of people who will meet the requirements who will happily wait two years, as for many many people the other options available are very limited.
Unfortunately we are all going to need to adjust, as painful as it may be. My heart breaks for all those who will be directly impacted by this.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
What everyone needs to remember is that the Chinese culture values family and the ‘norm’ for their 4000 year old culture is a two parent family. Their view on single mothers is much different than in the west.
I was raised in a big family with a big extended family (my dad has 29 first cousins and there are over 100 cousins in my generation) and not many single parents.
I don’t know what it would be like to be raised by a single parent but for what ever reason, the CCAA feels that children would do better in a two parent household.
stillhoping….on the puppies, the mamma dog is part black lab and either part boxer or maybe part pit bull.
The puppies are mostly black, very dark brown and there is one white puppy with dark spots. The mamma dog is really eating alot with putting weight on herself and feeding the puppies, she is going thru almost 3 pounds of dog food a day
What part of St. Louis are you in. . .we are 75 miles south west of St. Louis, off of hwy 44.
I felt so sorry for the mamma dog, just abandoned and noone wanted her.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Hello Everyone
I cant believe how strict the CCAA is getting. My heart goes out to all of the people who are worrying about the new rules. RQ thankyou so much for bring us this information to us quickly we appreciate you!
Still worried about the new rules until my daughter is put in my arms
Worried mom
December 8th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Clinical depression and anxiety is much more than just feeling depressed and anxious. People can be in therapy for a long time or even on medication without having a clinical diagnosis of depression or anxiety. So we should wait and see what the formal rules say.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:47 pm
I feel a terrible sadness for the singles especially, being single myself. At the same time I feel extreemely lucky that I already have adopted a little girl from China. I am also so lucky to have a LID for the 2nd one. I remember how much grief I had for NOT having any children, before I became a mom.
One thing I really wonder: Why didn’t China just implement the quota program that they had a couple of years ago? That really decreased the number of dossiers. I don’t understand the reason for choosing a different route now.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Wow, RQ, thank you again for always being on top of it all -Your blog has made this very long journey a little bit easier - First, I want to say that I’m truly sorry for those of you who believe you may miss out from adopting from China. I am adopted and I feel very fortunate to have been- with that being said, I think if you feel adoption is in your heart - don’t let it stop you - be pro-active. We had an unsuccessful adoption in Vietnam, but my husband and I really wanted a baby. So, don’t allow one program shut you out, there are so many orphans in this world that truly need a parent/s to cherish and love them.
December 8th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
Well, speaking for myself, every time these issues come up various comments are made about hiding facts, switching doctors, outright lies on applications and dossiers. I HAVE been depressed. Most of it is due to our inability to conceive. Would I lie about this to “get” a child? NO. Nor would I EVER advocate that others do so. We have an obligation to be truthful in our applications and dossiers, and if a question is asked, it should be answered honestly. IF the question is not targeted specifically, then maybe the answer is a bit “softer”. We don’t make the rules. We do have to live with the rules. Just like the IRS for us Americans. We also have an obligation to demonstrate that we can be good, fit parents, and good, fit parents should not be modeling behaviors such as outright lies on official documents. Yell at me all you want. Deception is wrong.
December 8th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
km98: “In the past the age of the mother has always been the deciding factor…”
I was hoping that would continue to be the case, now I don’t know. I was planning on an older child for the 2nd anyway, so that’s not a problem - just as long as they don’t add some birth order rule!
krj: “saved and planned, and waited until I felt ready, mind, body, spirit, bank account”
I’m not single, but that’s what I did too. I now feel totally ready to be a parent - but if that age things sticks, we could have a problem for a 2nd child. Of course, I still have a long wait ahead to even be a first time parent!
jennifer - we could pm if you have an account in the forum section.
(please forgive me RQ)
LadyBug4: “Dave, maybe you can find a support group to help you with your problems.”
LadyBug4 - you are much better with words than I am!
December 8th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
This is my first post although I have been viewing this sight for several months now.
Catrina - I’m very sorry for your situation. I couldn’t imagine finding out after vesting so many emotions that this isn’t going to happen. I don’t think you should give up on being a Mom.
Rmcel- Although my husband and I also meet all the requirements I don’t think requirements alone guarantee “best available parents”. The divorce rate in the US is over 50%. So statistically at some point over half of us with a child from China could be raising our daughters as single parents. I have two children and I don’t think that I would be a different parent if I suddenly found myself single.
Thanks RQ for all this info. My agency tells me nothing.
December 8th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
Speaking to all the people who are so concerned about the wait time and not being able to adopt again due to age - look at the WC program! Our complete time from initial application to our agency to gotcha day for our wonderful 2 year old daughter was 9 months, 3 days. People speak about wanting a healthy child. Well, most WC kids are “healthy”. Some do need surgical intervention, but most of that is quite minor for us Westerners. It seems to me people really want AYAP but don’t really want to say that. There are millions of “healthy” children needing families. They aren’t just all infants. There is no shortage of children, just a shortage of people willing to open their hearts to a child who has the misfortune to be older than an infant.
December 8th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Interestingly, there doesn’t seem to be any mention of parents to be in wheelchairs –seems like we’d heard so much about that one before.
To all those who are affected by these restrictions, my heart goes out to you.
It will be interesting to see how some of these rules play out like depression, criminal record and high school graduate. I asked on the other post does a GED work? Are we going to have to dig up a diploma to have notarized and authenticated? We actually have a very old and very minor criminal “thing” in our background –misdemeanor disturbing the peace for public intoxication over 20 yrs ago –would that keep us out? These are the things I’m curious about, the interpretation of some of these rules –is it going to be up to the agencies? the individual reviewers? Time will tell.
December 8th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
I hate to say it, but I am suprised that it wasnt that bad. I thought if they put out anything, it would be a serious whopper. I think the income, mental illness and singles issue sucks specifically. Very interesting. It will now be interesting to see how agencies decide to handle this. There will be folks logged in between now and the “new restrictions” that might be denied just because the agencies decide to play it safe and implement the new rules sooner.
December 8th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
This is a very sad day for many, many people. For myself and my dh, we will only be able to adopt if the rumour that these new rules only come into effect for people logged in After May1 2007. (My DH is “too old”, and who knows how they will interpret “no health issues.”) What I am wondering about is the issue of mental health. Does having received counselling “count” as evidence of poor mental health? To me, seeking help in times of extreme duress, stress, or trauma is a healthy thing to do. It seems to be a shame that people may be “punished” for seeking extra support at times they need it, so they can be more healthy in their lives and relationships.
And, like so many have said, the real qualities of being a good parent: a loving heart, respect, wisdom, etc. don’t seem to be fitting into the new rules. My heart aches for those who feel this door has been closed. (And as to “finding another country”, I have not heard of any/many countries that accept parents over the age of 50, especially if you are trying to adopt a child 2 or under.)
December 8th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
I’ve thought about the WC program. Still, it seems sometimes those kids are nearly fought over. And I’ve heard that there are very few under 12 months. But maybe we will consider it still.
jennifer - if you have an account over in the forum section - we could pm each other.
December 8th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
I agree that deception, especially on legal documents is not the answer. Not only is it wrong morally but those things do have a way of coming back to bite. That said, I believe the depression and anxiety issue will have to have reasonable guidelines. To treat all episodes of emotional illness the same would be unfair.
December 8th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
stillhoping. . . .I don’t have an account in the forum section
yet but I will set one up tonite at home and I’ll find you.
jennifer
December 8th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
Yeah, I’m a bit disappointed at the people who are willing to lie to adopt a child.
Find a program you can adopt from legally without having to lie.
Bringing a child into your life is one of the most important things you will do in your life, don’t taint it.
December 8th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
“m3 Says:The divorce rate in the US is over 50%. So statistically at some point over half of us with a child from China could be raising our daughters as single parents. I have two children and I don’t think that I would be a different parent if I suddenly found myself single.”
Thank you, m3. This seems to be a point that so many forget.
rmcl- you should be grateful that the CCAA wasn’t able to quantify compassion or a host of other qualities that make you a good parent- you clearly wouldn’t have made the cut.
I, too, feel terrible for all the people who won’t be able to adopt whether it’s because of marital status or one of the other new criteria. The factors the CCAA are basing their new criteria on have no correlation to your ability to be a good parent.
December 8th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
mgdesigner- I think your assessment of rmcl is unfair. Now YOU are judging fitness. The CCAA cannot personally interview each applicant….. They don’t know how “wonderful” we all are, and so how can you take this personally?? Clearly they are setting guidlines they think are appropriate to help stem the flow of dossiers. That’s their right. It may sting but it doesn’t help to be mean.
December 8th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
My late husband and I adopted two daughters from China. I was widowed about 9 months after our second adoption, and I do not believe I am any different of a parent now than I was when I was married.
I would venture to say that at least 50% or more of us who have adopted children from China in the past would no longer qualify under these “proposed” changes.
My heart breaks for those of you who will be excluded in the future because of these changes.
December 8th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Enough. No more snippiness. Please.
December 8th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
I would hope that all of us here have a deep love and concern for the children of china. Some of you have chosen to adopt because you could not have biological children. Some of us are adopting because we want to give a child a family. I am one of those people. We have raised two beautiful, smart, caring children who are now away at college. And I did it all while on medication! My son was ADD in school. So instead of having him struggle we took him out and I homeschooled him. And then we did the same for our daughter. Many people who are not on medication would never even consider homeschooling. I think before we all start to judge people and their actions I think you all should be very careful about throwing stones. How could you “taint” bringing a child into your life by what you consider to be lying. I have already brought two children into my life and nothing would have ever tainted it! The only thing that might have tainted it would have been if the baby wasn’t my husbands. What is more important, saving and chaning a life or worrying about ethics? I choose life! And shame on anyone who doesn’t. We are talking about children dying in China, and in many international countries. So let me get this straight, there are some here who would rather worry about moral ethics than chaning lives and giving children homes. You all should be very happy that the CCAA doesn’t ask if anyone has ever cheated on their income tax? Or cheated on their spouse? Or had pre-marital sex? Or had an abortion? I can say I have never any of those. And by the way, for those of us who are in their 40’s and want to adopt, there are not many options. Oh, by the way, I am going to adopt a SN child anyway, so I am not concerned. But all of you who would like to cast stones, you better look at your own lives and be thankful that your little “issue” you have is not one of the things that could come between you and a beautiful child who needs a family.
December 8th, 2006 at 7:20 pm
GraciesMom,
I have done some of those things you never have. I still feel I will be a great dad.
I say that first sentence tounge in cheek. I am not ridiculing you.
I agree completely. Never judge. You have not stood where that person stands and you have not been where that person has been.
My motto.
Be you and let others be. Oh what a wonderful world that would make.
December 8th, 2006 at 8:02 pm
How disappointing to meet all the new restrictions except for the single part :(
My LID is 12-05-05 and I didn’t go into this program thinking of only having one child. I wanted two children from the same background so they could be there for each other when mom didn’t understand what is was like to be them in such a caucasian area. I’ll try my best but sometimes only a sister can help.
December 8th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
Till Catharina i Stockholm;
FörstÃ¥r hur du känner…, men ge inte upp!
Som många sagt här ovan; det finns fortfarande ANDRA länder att adoptera ifrån som singel!
Genom adopt.org BARNEN FRAMFÖR ALLT finns ex. dessa länder att välja pÃ¥: Filippinerna = SN-barn fr 3 Ã¥r, övriga fr. 5 Ã¥r, Indien = SN-barn i alla Ã¥ldrar, övriga fr. 4 Ã¥r, Vietnam = alla Ã¥ldrar, bÃ¥de SN-barn och övriga, Slovakien = “enstaka”, ofta fr. 2-3 Ã¥r.
//Värmande kramar fr en annan Catharina i Stockholm!
December 8th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
It is my understanding that when the CCAA gets this back-logged that it is common for them to bring in new restrictions to slow down the number of applications that they are receiving. This gives them a chance to “catch up. ” We all know that there are thousands of abandoned babies waiting in China for the love of a parent, be it one or two. It is beyond me why somewhere along the way the CCAA and orphanages don’t chose to add more employees to their organizations to help make more babies “paper ready”. We are fortunate to have a LID of October 2005, but we would not qualify under the new proposed rules. We also have single friends who I know will be devasted.
To Catrina,
Please don’t give up. Maybe once the CCAA “catches up” they will reduce some of the restrictions.
To Dave,
I will not “throw stones”. I will only hope and pray that your beliefs do not find their way into the hearts and souls of your children.
December 9th, 2006 at 6:06 am
Thank you RQ for letting us know SO quickly. I REALLY feel for all the people out there that won’t be able to adopt because of the new rules :-(
RDT xxx.
December 9th, 2006 at 9:45 am
I just couldn’t post last night. I am just beside myself. We just got approved by the agency and received the contract just a couple days ago and now, it’s looking as if there’s no way we can get in before the deadline for the new rules. We’d meet all the requirements except for being married 5 years, since my husband had a previous marriage, which by the way ended nearly 15 years ago. We just got married in 2003; so about 11 years later. It’s not like he jumped into another marriage. He had planned to never get remarried, but I guess I changed his thinking. With this wait, it might be better if even by some chance we could get everything in, but we have the slowest USCIS office in Chicago,, 12 weeks or so, I think. We started contemplating China a few months back and ended up finding our present agency, since they are approved for Vietnamese adoptions. It looks like a good thing we did, since we may be changing, but so will a ton of others and how will the Hague Treaty affect an adoption from Vietnam? I don’t think Vietnam is in compliance!
December 9th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
cmc
I know this is a little off topic but given the delays thus far, I want to be somewhat knowledgeable and/or prepared for what can be expected at the time of the referral (not that it is anytime soon LID 1/26/06). In particular, what are the potential glitches at the time of the referral?
thank you
cmc
December 9th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
We’re seeing newer klinds of glitches ar referral time. Here are a few. Keep in mind that it is highly unlikely they wioll happen.
GETTING REFERRAL
1. you expect ‘the call’ but are told that your referral / LID has been changed to a later date. Soemtimes you’re told the new LID; sometimes you do not know how long you’ll wait for the new referral; some agencies seem to be able to find this out; some do not.
2. If you were asked a question during review, you may have a higher chance of #1.
3. You’re not expecting “the call” but get it anyway! (one referral batch earlier than expected, with an LID close to the cutoff date). I don’t think this counts as a glitch!
4. Stuff gets lost in the mail and CCAA has to re-send the referral info.
ACCEPTING REFERRAL
4. A severe and un-hide-able change in medical or marital status means you no longer qualify under China’s or agency requirements.
5. You are referred a child with unexpected SN needs greater than you are able to handle, and don’t feel able to accept the referral.
6. You are referred an old man (a recurring dream of many on this site)
Again, none of these are likely to happen to you. Except maybe the old, irate, Chinese man….
Any other possible glitches?