Poll Results so far
Without the third choice, it would appear that the new rules will knock half of us out. With the idea that people may not qualify right now but could make changes to qualify, they’ve knocked 41% of us out.
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This will not make the wait shorter for those that are already logged in. The wait will not go down until they work through the current backlog. I don’t think we should hope that they are going to increase the current referral rate because it appears that right now they are trying to make the world think they have almost run out of babies needing homes and are having to reduce the number of applicants. It’s too bad that the world press hasn’t picked up on the fact that there are only so many “paper ready” babies instead of reporting that abandonments are down and there are less babies than there were. The stories of people visiting orphanages full of babies and hearing that these babies will never be made paper ready is just heartbreaking. I wonder if the world press will ever pick up on that.
But, back to the rules. Only a handful of agencies are saying that some of these rules will not be grandfathered. Most agencies are saying that if you are already logged in then you are fine under the old rules. At this point I think we have to believe this. I think the CCAA is going to look at files more carefully, but they’ve been doing that anyway. We know that they’ve been scrutinizing and sometimes denying people based on a history of cancer, or an organ transplant, or being in a wheelchair, or having some combination of factors that puts them over the edge. I think that people who were very close to the edge under the old rules may not make it, but I think that people who are clearly okay under the old rules and who were logged in under the old rules should be okay. I don’t know this for sure. I’m not an agency, I wasn’t at the meeting, but I’ve been around a while and that’s just what I think the CCAA will end up doing.
I’ve seen a lot of crazy speculation, some of it very scary. I’m really not sure we need to go there.
I think that sending the rules to arrive the last day before the Christmas holiday weekend was a pretty crappy thing to do. Not only because it is Christmas, but also because now people have questions and won’t be able to talk to their agency for a while. Some agencies are closed all next week and it’s going to be a full 11 or 12 days before those people will be able to talk to anyone at their agency. Sending them just a few days earlier could have given time for questions and answers so that people wouldn’t have the horrible sinking feeling all during the Christmas holidays that so many are feeling.
I am going to continue to assume that the agencies are correct who are saying if you are logged in under the old rules then you are fine under the old rules and the new rules do not apply to you. The biggest and most dependable agencies are saying this. It just has to be true.
December 23rd, 2006 at 5:01 pm
The large agencies are still taking single applicants to submit by May 1st. If they weren’t going to grandfather those of us with a LID, I don’t think those agencies would take taking these new single clients. It would be too much bad press for the agency, don’t you think?
Kim
LID 12-05-05
December 23rd, 2006 at 5:05 pm
I am just so sad about all of this. Its makes the waiting so much harder and full of uncertainty. Thanks RQ for trying so hard with all of this and sharing information with us. I know that everyone is just trying the best to do the best that they can do with this situation, but it is hard. I feel for everyone affected by these rules.
December 23rd, 2006 at 6:38 pm
With a November 05 LID, I been in and out of the review room for quite a while. I makes me a little nervous because I am on antidepressents (due to infertility and multiple miscarriages). I really don’t believe the CCAA is going to re-look at all those files that have already been through review to recheck for the new regulations. I think if you have already been through the review room you should be all set. Just my humble opinion.
December 23rd, 2006 at 6:49 pm
Hi RQ and Merry Christmas!!
I agree, I think it is very crappy, to say the least, for the CCAA to issue their formal rules right before Christmas. They so don’t get it. It’s almost like they want adoptive parent(s) to suffer. Maybe they just don’t realize . . .
I did you poll, I just want to add– DH and I don’t make the requirement because this is a 2nd marriage for both of us and we haven’t been married for 5 years– only half that. We are discussing adopting a second child, but we don’t want to wait an additional 2 years after we adopt our first (assuming we get referral this summer).
With a LID 12/20/05, we thought we would be home with our daughter long before now and would be ready to start the paperwork for a second this Srping. We just don’t want wait that long. We are now looking into Vietnam and Ethiopia.
Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to everyone! Hopefully, the new year will ring-in many new referrals!
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:08 pm
7 years of infertility and related treatment does seem to cause some depression and anxiety. Unless I go off of my medication DH and I will be out for a second adoption. That’s a pretty crap choice to make. I pray we’re already through review for DD #1.
Sarah
LID 3/1/06
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:22 pm
RQ- I agree wholeheartedly that they shouldn’t have released the new rules right before Christmas just because of the heartache it has caused so many people.
My hope for everyone is that they could enjoy this Christmas (or whatever you celebrate) and rest up for the next batch of referals.
*hugs to all*
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:27 pm
It is unfortunate that this release is at Christmas, but Christmas is a Christian holiday and most of China is not Christian.
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:33 pm
tbergen,
My DH said those exact words to me earlier today when I was giving him my daily update of what was new on RQ’s site. He said they are at work punching a clock and don’t celebrate Christmas. He did not believe that they in anyway were trying to be malicious in the timing of the official update of the rules. Plus he added no one knows what the will do or when they will do it and that is the way it works and told me just to accept it. so much for sympathy from my DH.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Next week will be here before we know it and we will have news of lots of happy new families.
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:36 pm
Didn’t we have this conversation a day or two ago? About Christmas not being a strictly Christian holiday? And Christmas is celebrated in China, not like we celebrate it here, and I don’t think they get the day off, but it is celebrated. Ask anyone who is there now and they will tell you about the decorations for Christmas all over the big cities.
Once upon a time the CCAA worked to try to get referrals out to arrive before Christmas, too, since they understood that so many of us had large family celebrations and how important it would be to be able to share our joy with them. But that was a long time ago, and I think almost every department has a different director now.
December 23rd, 2006 at 8:36 pm
A good friend of mine is from Taiwan and lives there now. He went to University in Buffalo for his PhD and I “adopted” him and brought him to my family’s Christmas celebration. He found it very touching and very different from what Taiwan did. I gave him a book on Celebrating Christmas and says it is one of his favourite gifts and his visit at my house that time of year one of his best memories. Christmas only had a commercial meaning to him – Santa and shopping – until he realized it is all about the family and being together. You may know that a holiday of another culture/religion is important, but you really don’t “get it” until you experience it. I went to a Buddist temple while visiting him 2 years ago and there were all these offerings given at the temple. Notes with young peoples pictures and lots of money everywhere! I mean lots of money tied to them. He explained that the offerings were so that the students in the pictures get good marks on their exams and university entrances. It really makes no sense to me, but was obviously very important to those individuals. I guess I’m just trying to get at you don’t see the full picture of a holiday/belief unless you are part of it. My thoughts.
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:29 pm
My stomache has been in knots over this for days. My hubby thinks I am stressing for nothing. I am praying and believing he is right. Our lid is May 12,2006 so it hasn’t been reviewed yet. I am stressing about the amount of money they want you to make and we do have four children already. May seem silly to stress since we already have four. But we felt like our familywasn’t complete and had a huge desire to adopt. The children are so excited about the adoption. We have been in this process for a long time now. And we have been getting ready for the nursery and I have purchased a TON of baby girl clothes. It kind of helped with the wait.
Just curious?? My hubby makes a considerable amount more than he did when we applied for the adoption and I have lost weight since then as well. If they have questions about this will they take that into consideration? I dont’ know why I am so nervous. Except I haven’t lost all the baby weight for two and half years now.LOL My bmi is 31. We are hoping for a referral by the end of next year.
Anyway can anyone elighten me or make me feel better??
I hate stressing over the holidays.
Amy
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Hi RQ…Love your site. I came across it about a month ago. Interesting reading about the new regulations. We have not been notified at all by our agency, and I’ve been waiting to see when or if we will be. We hope to have our paperwork out sometime in January. We are Canadian and we are working on our second adoption from China. I did not realize there was anything to worry about in the review process. We were led to believe that if we passed our agency’s and provincial review (supposedly the strictest in Canada) that we would not have to worry about China’s. I’m going to be asking our agency if anyone has been questioned. No one that I’ve ever talked to has been questioned. We should qualify under the new regulations, and be logged in before May 1. I suspect that this is the reason we have not been notified as we otherwise have an awesome agency. Any Canadians lurking out there that can tell me if you’ve been questioned in the review room? Our Gotcha Day for D#1 was July ’05 and I think the wait must be like labour, you forget all about it once your handed this little being. Hang in there, for all you waiting for the next batch of referrals. The thrill of seeing your daughter’s picture is unforgetable.
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Also can you count your assets as net worth?? My hubby is self employed and feels his business is well worth the 80k. WOuld that count? And we easily make the 10,000 for each member of the family. But we didn’t at the time of application. We were a little short so had to add assets.
Can you tell I am just so nervous about this? And I really could be doing other things like getting ready for everyone to come to the house for Christmas.
Rumor Queen do you think we will honestly have to wait 3 yrs. OR just the 15 months? My agency is still saying 15 months and did send out a letter telling those of us that were already LID not to worry. That those rules didn’t apply to us.
Amy
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:59 pm
Okay… I have an issue. I have had epilepsy for 27 years of my life. Epilepsy is listed as a “severe disease” that will effect my “life expectancy” per the CCAA!!! Could the CCAA please give my physician a call and tell them this info? I have been taking medication for a long, long time & going to the doctor for a long, long time… and NOPE… NAH-DAH… if they don’t grandfather in the current LID’s… (and I’m thru the review room) our dreams of becoming parents to a sweet little girl in China, needing us, as much as we need her… are OVER!!
This worries the heck outta’ me!!!
December 23rd, 2006 at 10:11 pm
Beenthereonce,
I am Canadian and through my agency I know of people being questioned in the review room. I know of someone in my LID group, NOV 22, 05 who was initially turned down for a health reason, made an appeal through our agency and then passed through review. I also heard of someone having problems at referral time who thought they were through the review room. My agency is well respected and has an excellent rapport with CCAA.
December 23rd, 2006 at 10:58 pm
This discussion about people being asked questions is interesting to me. We are LID 2/13, anxiously awaiting word that we have made it through review. When the news came out re: the new rules I contacted my agency (small/medium sized, china only, very conservative) and dug for info. I wanted to know, when was the last LID they’d had a question from CCAA on. My thinking was that RQ and others have said that different reviewers can be working on different months and if my agency was getting questions about those logged in after us, we should be through even though it hasn’t been posted. OK, here’s my point: My agency told me that they only receive 1-2 requests for additional info from CCAA per year! They said they are picky about the way the dossier is put together (they were) and that they very rarely are contacted about anything and when they are, its usually because of an error in translation. I’m thinking they do about 30-50 adoptions per month. Does that seem surprising to any of you? I guess what I’m trying to figure out is if they’re being honest with me or not. I believe they are a very respected agency but I have sometimes felt they weren’t giving me the whole story when I ask questions. I get the feeling they give out info on a “need to know” basis. Do others know how often CCAA contacts their agency for questions/clarifications?
December 23rd, 2006 at 11:09 pm
My agency said they almost never get contacted from CCAA, regarding a dossier in review. That explains why they are so strict during the paperchase. Everything is in place, and I am thankful that they do it this way. So, no, I don’t think they are lying to you.
Happy Holidays to Everyone!!
December 23rd, 2006 at 11:42 pm
I have a LID of 11-05 also. My agency said not too worry we are all set for *this* adoption. New rules won’t take effect until May 1, 2007. Does anyone think they will go back and re-review us? I mean according to their website I think it is as far as Jan. 06 as far as matching. Will they actually go back x amount of months and determine who don’t fit their requirements? If that is so dh and I will be kicked out due to BMI and I take antidepressants for anxiety. I cannot believe that we could be soooo close yet the thought she can be *taken* away is more than I can bear. I would love to have another DD from China however if my agency is true that we are ok than I think I will be thankful VERY thankful for my only.
December 24th, 2006 at 3:15 am
Agencies being closed? Really? Wow that is terrible. If my agency was unreachable for a whole week they darn sure wouldn’t be my agency ever again, and as many people as possible would know about it. That is some pretty bogus stuff, IMHO. I have my agency rep.’s home number and cell number, and during our paper chase I spoke to her once for an hour while she was waiting for her daughter to come out of surgery. She wants to be there, and wants to be available. I know that no agencies are getting rich on this work, but they should be supporting their families, and since they were either at the CCAA meeting or knew when it was, they should have been prepared. Phone tree, one conference call for ?s, anything. But no contact for a week I think is wrong.
I really hope too many people aren’t in that situation, and I’m so glad RQ is here for a resource for all of us.
I heard the rumblings of new rules a long time ago here only, and that’s why I am lighter with lower BMI today. Thanks for that RQ. :)
Wishing everyone dirty diapers in the new year~
wBw
December 24th, 2006 at 3:31 am
Amy–
You should be able to put the value of your husband’s business in as assets, which will contribute to your net worth. It may need to be certified some way by his accountant.
We are in the same boat, and are listing my husband’s stock in his company as part of our assets. Ours is pretty easy to ‘prove’ as there is a Board of Directors and in that agreement or whatever, the percentage of the company owned by each board member–of which my husband is one–is listed out. Then we can attach a value to the percentage of the company earned based on what the company would sell for. There is actually a formula for this, at least in my husband’s industry. They did “x” amount in sales the past two years, sales are projected to be “y” for the next two, so the current value of the company is “z”. I imagine there would be a pretty decent way of putting a value on your husband’s company as well.
Good luck!
December 24th, 2006 at 3:36 am
As for these rules I am on pins and needles.
Dh is boarderline diabetic–can be handled by weight loss. And he is blind in one eye. But with his glasses, he can see–sort of. He needs a corneal transplant, honestly. I was hoping he would get it done this summer. I guess any time we are LID would be fine, but not before.
I just wonder if his eyesight will be an issue before hand. And the thing about my agency is they’ll tell us to go ahead an submit…..but I don’t want to be $11K in the hole and not get a baby!
Anyway, I guess I need to see what his vision results turn out to be with his glasses–which he wears daily.
Otherwise we have no problems meeting any of the other requirements. So, I guess we’ll see…..
December 24th, 2006 at 4:33 am
I hope that the wait will not go over 18 months. Everyone seems to point towards 2-3 years (holy crap!). My father was just diagnosed with Prostate Cancer (the doc says he has an agressive tumour) and he’s supposed to be my futur daughter’s Godfather so I’m pretty depressed tonight :-( We’re DTC Nov. 2006 SO I’ve got a heck of a long wait ahead of me …
RDT.
December 24th, 2006 at 7:51 am
Merry Christmas to all! All I can say is that if for some reason they don’t grandfather all of us in and we can’t adopt (although I really think it’s unlikely) someone is going to owe me at least the agency fees that I already paid! That is around $9,000.00! And if everyone begins to clamor about getting reimbursed for their fees, since someone would have to take the hit, and it should not be the perspective parents. They already suffered enough by not being able to adopt from China. By the way, I am totally fine with not being able to adopt again from China. I did grieve for a few days. We are not going to let it stand in the way of not getting another child, or sister for our baby. We will be looking into other asian countries. We can look at it this way. Maybe more children from different countries will have a chance to get their forever families. Sadly, China is forcing us to go elsewhere.
December 24th, 2006 at 8:25 am
waiting4agirl-
I am also on pins and needles. My agency says that I am O.K. because I am logged in, but I was just logged in. Therefore, I will not reach the review room for quite sometime after May, 2007. My biggest fear is that the CCAA will start applying the rules to those they are reviewing after May, 2007. The thought of waiting until this time next year and finding out that I “won’t go through” because I am single scares me to death.
December 24th, 2006 at 9:47 am
moon.ladder, based on your posts it seems to me that you would be all right. Plus if there were questions about your dossier, surely your agency would be contacted and you could update your info. to include the higher income, net worth and etc. I really hope you are able to relax and enjoy the holidays. It certainly does stink that the timing of the CCAA’s official notice coincided with so many agencies being closed.
waiting4agirl, as a fellow single adopter I can sure understand your angst. But I have to agree with those who have said all those reliable, responsible agencies would not be saying what they’re saying and still taking single applications if they weren’t at least 99% sure the new rules are not going to apply to those logged in prior to May 1. That said, I’m not uncrossing my fingers for any of us until we all have our babies safely home.
RQ, thanks for this info. and for all you do to keep us informed. Happy holidays, here’s hoping for a new year of peace and happiness for all.
December 24th, 2006 at 9:49 am
Oops, should have addressed the last part of that remark to China4me2, sorry.
December 24th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
I am not really worried about the rules affecting us at all… but their is still some confusion. I just wish we all knew what was going on here. Agencies seem to be saying that if you are logged in before May 1st, 2007 then you “should” be ok. I am just worried for all of you who have health issues or are single and are already logged in (or are soon going to be) and are wondering if these rules really will affect you, do they mean that you must be logged in or that you must be reviewed by May 1st?
Anxious
LId 9/19.05
December 24th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
My anti-spam word is mama, I sure hope that I get to be a mama in 2007! Happy Holidays everybody!
Zoe
9/19/05
December 24th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
moon.ladder
Anything ov value more than you owe on it is counted toward net worth
If you have a 250,000 dollar home and you owe 200,000, you have 50,000 net worth.
If your husband has a business and he has 100,000 dollars of loans against it but has 175,000 worht of tools and equipment then there is a net worth of 75,000.
Businesses can be more complex than other assets because there are the consideratios of earnings, debt, partnerships, etc. but your accountant should be able to give you a net worth statement for the business.
Take care
BTW if you own your car and it is worth 5,000 then that counts also.
December 24th, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Thanks sweeties for answering my questions:)
I just pray we just get through the review and we are grandfathered into it like we were told.
So does anyone have an idea how long it takes them to get to the review? Our LID is May 12,2006. So i am trying to figure out how long it will take.
Amy
December 24th, 2006 at 7:43 pm
Off topic but………Just wanted to say Happy Holidays and all the best (including a referral) to RQ for 2007!
Thanks for all the time you spent sharing info with all of us this year. You have made our wait through 2006 a wee bit easier and we are leaving to go get our baby girl on Jan 5th.
December 24th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
We are LID 05/15/06, not through review. SW called last week to tell us about new rules and that we would not be affected as they don’t take eff. until 05/01/07. She also said that the CCAA has a reputation of holding through with things they have said and not going back on their word, but it is possible that anyone could be denied yet before referral. She just did not know for sure. Our agency is a medium, numerous country one. They do NOT say anything about anything unless it is coming directly from the CCAA. The CCAA was also very vague when asked about wait times. They did have a few reps there at the meeting.
I am going to hold onto China being good “on their word”, but will also prepare myself if we are rejected. We would not make it if the new rules were implemented before we had been LID. Our agency also has told us they very rarely ever get a question about someones dossiers after LID as they are very careful in preparation.
December 24th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
I know this is a bit off topic but wanted to let all of you know that are expecting a referral so soon, that I am thinking of you all and praying hard that you see your baby’s face soon.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to RQ and all!!
MrsMoonie
December 24th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
I am hoping someone can answer this PLEASE. My agency said were ok bc we’re through review room now my sil’s co-workers sister adopted from China and told my sil when it was mentioned how panic is erupting that once your through review room your matched. Of course this is my first adoption and the looks of it ONLY adoption and I want to believe that is true. That once you have been through review your ok. Anyone know once you make it through review if you truly do have a *paper ready* child……..
Sheila
December 25th, 2006 at 7:57 am
If you’ll look under “Important Posts” in the right sidebar you’ll see links for how the review room and matching rooms work.
By all accounts, we aren’t matched with our children in the NSN program until shortly before we receive our referrals.
December 25th, 2006 at 11:33 am
Last night our agency posted that they had finally received the official changes in writing to the adoption policies from CCAA. The one thing they clarified was that the changes take effect with all dossiers Logged in after May 1. So our agency is giving clients until March 23rd to be DTC. Since they said it is taking about a month to be logged in these days. Everything they said was as it was sent to them originally.
December 25th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
There is another interesting article at:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16209640/
I really hope that some reporters take China up on the section that states: “There will be a great experiment this year in China. For the first time, the communist government will allow journalists to roam the country and gather news — without permission from government officials. It may not sound like much, but it will give reporters for the first time the freedom to cover stories both good and bad and report them without being detained or expelled.”
I hope some of the reporters that recently posted about Chinese adoptions in all of our local and world news actually seek out the current status of the orphanages in China and see that there are lots of babies that need homes – they just may not be ‘paper ready’ babies! Maybe this would help push China to get these children ‘paper ready’ and into our loving families!
If anyone has connections to the media, I urge them to look into this opportunity to enlighten!
Julie