New Special Needs Program
Apparently this is still a long ways from being worked out.
A few agencies are saying that the word right now is that each agency will continue to have their own list and only the “hard to place” children will be on a CCAA managed list available online with a password.
A few agencies are saying they are aware that the CCAA is talking about a new way to do the SN program but that there are no details about how it is going to work or when it will go into effect.
From what I’m hearing it really sounds to me like the CCAA is still tossing ideas around and they haven’t decided on anything yet.
January 14th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Does anyone know if it is possible to implement 2 separate adoptions at once through China? For example, we are currently logged in for a NSN child and we want to continue with this adoption. But if we saw a SN child that we wanted to also pursue, could we pursue an adoption of that child without jepordizing our first adoption where we have not yet been matched?
Any thoughts on if this is possible?
Thanks!
January 14th, 2007 at 11:37 am
There are stories out there of people allowed to adopt two children with the same special need from the same orphanage at the same time, but all of those stories come to me as “someone who heard about it” or “someone who knows someone”. No first hand knowledge, so I’m not so sure about that.
However, I’m almost positive you cannot have a SN and a NSN application in at the same time. As always, you should check with your agency to be sure.
January 14th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Mommofthree,
I don’t know if what you asked is possible, but we just went through something similar in December. We were logged in as NSN and fell in love with a little girl on our agency’s WC list. Typically under the current SN system you do your paperchase for a SN adoption after you send your Letter of Intent (LOI) for a particular child. However, since we were already logged in as NSN with the CCAA we were required to more our dossier from the NSN sector to the SN. I’m not sure if that was a CCAA decision or our agency’s. I just know that we could not leave our dossier and paperchase for our daughter who was on the WC list seperately.
Bloomer
Mom to Claire Yangqing waiting in Bengbu
January 14th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Thanks for posting this RQ!
January 14th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Our (Canadian) agency has stated that families logged-in to the CCAA with the nsn program will no longer be permitted by the CCAA to switch to the WCP. I know there are American agencies who, in the past, have said this was not possible when it was, but our agency used to do this for families all the time. So, I believe them when they say this is a recent CCAA decision. But if I wanted to do this (i.e., switch), I would still give it a shot, since it seems that there is a bit of confusion currently in the CCAA wrt how they are processing WC families.
Our situation is a case in point: Our agency was told by the CCAA in November that they no longer wanted to receive the entire dossier of families applying to the WCP. Instead, the agency was instructed to send select information, including the profile of each families “preferred child”. The agency was informed that each of these families would receive a “child proposal”- i.e., be “matched” with a child meeting their needs. Once the child was accepted, then the entire dossier and LOI could be submitted together and reviewed, PA/TA issued, etc… We were hoping to get these matches this month- but they did not come- instead, the CCAA has told the agency that they are reviewing the process and will have some information for them in the coming weeks.
So, I agree with you, RQ, I think the CCAA really has no set idea about how to proceed with changes to the WCP yet. But I do think (and hope) that the fact that they are reconsidering their procedures is a good thing. I think they’ll be placing a lot more emphasis on the WCP in the future as the numbers of children in the nsn continue to drop.
January 14th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
CarolynW,
I belive your agency is not telling you the whole truth (about changes in the SN program.) Our agency (in the U.S.) has recently made a new ruling that families logged in as NSN can only switch to SN within 6 months of their LID date. To my understanding, this is not a CCAA policy, but rather an agency decision. I think they are trying to reduce the number of families who swtich from NSN to SN soley because of the longer referral wait times.
I don’t know if Canada has different requirements, but I have the strong feeling that your agency is trying to pass off their own new rules as new rules of CCAA.
BTW, I’ve been wrong before and it’s very possible I’m wrong now! ;)
Best Wishes!
January 14th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I’m almost certain that you would start the process over again for the second child. I assume the “one year rule” would apply and you would have to wait one year from the date of “adoption day” to be logged in again at the CCAA. I’m guessing if you are already logged in originally in the NSN program and decided to adopt through the SN program, you lose that spot in line and start over. This is a good question and would love to know for sure.
January 14th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
TAB~ I think you are right, it is my understanding that you must wait 1 year from ‘Gotcha Day’ before you may start the process again. But, one thing I am unsure about is, can you start the paperchase before 1 year and not submit until that 1 year mark or can you not do anything for 1 year?
Jessa
January 14th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
you cannot do both. Once you decide to move to SN then you give up your spot in NSN program. This is a CCAA rule not done by the individual agencies. We tried to do this and they told us one program or the other and that is the way the CCAA required it.
January 14th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
I’ve been lurking here for quite a while and really appreciate all the information, discussion, celebration and shared disappointment.
to chinadreams:
We adopted our daughter in November 2005 and began the paperchase for our second adoption at our six month review. Our dossier was DTC Nov 3, 2006 and we are LID Nov 28, 2006 (one year to the day we signed our adoption papers). So you can begin paperchasing before the one year mark. Here in Ontario, the govt requires a nine month delay between adoption and beginning to paperchase for the next one. We were a bit ahead of that with no negative effects.
momtolily
LID #2 Nov 28 06
January 14th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
RQ- Any other rumors out there? This is beginning to be a long weekend.
January 14th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
MomtoLily:
Did your agency mail your dossier before your Adoption Day? Sounds like it. Our agency would wait and not mail until our Adoption Day. Maybe with the long wait between DTC and LID, they will go ahead and mail the dossier these days.
January 14th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
RaisingArizona-
I have to say that I kinda doubt that our agency is making up their own rule and passing it off as from the CCAA.
This rule was announced by our agency at the end of December, so it is *extremely” recent. How recent was your agency’s decision concerning the ability to switch within 6 months of LID?
They’ve also stated, btw, that applicants who are already logged-in cannot switch into the Expedited program (for families able to prove Chinese descent) either. I’m not sure why or how anyone wouldn’t initally request to be Expedited if they are of Chinese descent (like, I’m sure this is not something they’d discover after their LID!), but, then again, I don’t know the requirements of that program.
The rationale for the rule prohibiting switching, as I understand it, is that the CCAA no longer wants to have to retrieve files that have been logged-in to the nsn program and redirect them for the WCP (or expedited stream). Apparently, the recent boom of families switching from the nsn program to the WCP within the last year caused a lot of logistic and paperwork headaches at the CCAA that they no longer want to deal with.
So, I don’t know… you might be right… but I *want* to believe that our agency has too much integrity not to be forthright with us about this.
Has anyone else heard anything concerning CCAA rules against switching programs within the last month of so?
January 14th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Sorry, sorry, sorry- I was thinking more about the possibility of our agency not being completely honest with us, and I dug out the original memo that they sent.
The “no switching” rule, they report, is one of the new regulations taking effect in May.
Sorry to be misleading in my previous posts… I guess switching *is* still a possibilty until May.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Unfortunately, none of the above seems like it makes sense. It makes sense that China wants people to go the SN route. There is a surplus of applications, not enough paper ready NSN babies, and CCAA has already shown by it’s new rules that it wants the applications to slow down. It only makes sense that people in the NSN line would be very welcomed to switch to the SN line. Takes care of 2 problems. First, the applications waiting in the regular line go down, and so do the wait times. Second, the SN children who require more care, and should cost more to care for will get out of the system.
So, the logic was that they didn’t want to waste time finding the application to place in another pile? Does that REALLY sound right?
January 14th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
I’m a bit confused by some of the information here. Does “switching from NSN to the SN program” refer to transferring a dossier to allow the CCAA to refer a SN child, or does it refer to accepting a child from an agency’s WC list? These are two very different scenarios.
We have submitted our dossier requesting a NSN referral from the CCAA, but at the same time we are letting our agency know we would like to be considered to adopt a child from one of their waiting lists (should one become available). Would we still be allowed to do this?
Thanks for any clarification, even if only speculative.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Luckymama,
That is how our agency is doing it right now. I would just call your agency and see what they think.
January 14th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
3kids2dogs…. Ditto! Any matching rumors? Any rumors? Any anything rumors??? :-) Maybe tomorrow will hold something special for us??? Maybe? Or at least this week??? oh i hope so! I’ve never had so many questions by friends about our referral as i had today!!!! Everyone is READY!!!!!!!! :-)
LID 9/29/05 (next!)
January 14th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Our agency has also told us that once you are LID for 6 months you can NOT switch from NSN to SN. I have also heard of another agency here in the US that has told their clients that there is no switching allowed at all. I tend to believe this is because they have seen such a huge increase of families switch just to speed up the process.
If you are with an agency that lets you send your dossier as NSN while you wait on their long WC list, I would ask them where you stand. My friend has been on a WC list with a large, China only agency since July. She is being told they still have another 3-4 months to wait (they initially were told December). They are not sending their dossier until they have a match because they strictly want to be SN but all of the families that are moving from NSN are slowing things down for them. Doesn’t seem right to me. Since they are SN ONLY and returning clients I would think they would have priority over a NSN family making the switch.
I do realize that there are families that after they are LID sit down and educate themselves about SN’s and sincerely understand wholeheartedly the process. I think agencies should educate all of their families upfront about the SN program before they even accept applications. Especially if they aren’t going to be allowed to switch. Give them all of the info you can and have them do the research and if they choose to stay NSN then they will have to see the wait out. And those truly wanting to go the SN route will do so from the beginning.
Sevenofus
Day 53 of TA wait (SN)
January 14th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Hi,
The one-year rule does not apply to SN adoptions. If agencies aren’t letting you adopt an SN child prior to the one-year mark, it’s their rule not CCAA’s….I know because we adopted our Kathryn 2/19/06, and were LID for Sarah 11/2/06…accepted her referral from the WC program in June, just 4 months after adopting Kathryn…
If anyone wants to know my agency, email me at sbrueckel@gmail.com…
:-)
Steph
Day 73 of Wait for TA
January 14th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
As far as our small China only agency goes, we have logged in as NSN, but are agency also has us on their approved parents list for a WC should we find our daughter on the WC list. We have been logged in over 9 months as NSN. I have spoken with our WC coordinator and she has not mentioned that we could not be in “both lines” at the same time. Maybe this applies to those wanting the CCAA to match them with an SN baby???
Guess I’ll have to call to be sure!
January 14th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
CarolynW,
Sorry for taking so long to reply. We got a baby-sittter and went to dinner and a movie! How refreshing…
The answer to your question is that we were informed the week before Christmas about our agency’s new rule – no switching from NSN to SN after you have been LID for 6 months. They made no mention that switching to SN would be discontinued after the May 1st deadline. I will certainly contact them this week to clarify.
And to others who asked exactly what I am refering to – We have been told by our agency that they have decided to let only those families who are logged in NSN for less than 6 months to apply for a waiting child.
I hope I was more clear this time around.
Good Night All!
January 14th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
I just talked to our agency on Friday about this. What she said is that the WCP and the SN program are two different things. The WCP is when someone finds a “match” off of an agencies WC list, and in this scenario you can pull your dossier from the NSN line and pursue the waiting child. If you want to be directly matched with a SN child then your dossier is sent as a SN dossier and then you are put in line for the SN children. I am not sure what the differences are in the children but this is how our agency eplained it to us.
Good Luck to all.
Michelle
January 14th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
I’m not an expert, but one thing that seems obvious to me is that different agencies approach SN different ways. We’re with a medium sized multi country agency. We were DTC as part of the NSN program 11/30/06. On December 6th I saw our daughter on their Waiting Children list. Our agency said our dossier will be switched to the SN program in order to adopt our daughter. There has never been any mention of this no longer being allowed. We now wait for our pre-approval (although we’ve been told that does not always happen if you are already DTC) and eventually our TA.
Sevenofus commented that people who switch from NSN to SN (like us) are slowing things down for people like her friend who have always been SN. I don’t understand this comment because the system at our agency would not affect her friend. She could view the children on the WC list until she felt she had a connection with a child and felt capable of meeting his or her special needs. Right now their are over 50 children to view on our agency’s list alone just waiting for families to come forward to be their parents.
All I can gather is that just like any part of this process, it would be important to discuss with an agency their approach to placing SN children under the current system. It seems to occur in may ways.
We feel very lucky to have found our daughter. The first time I saw her my heart raced and I shook from the inside out. It was magic. I guess whatever each of our path is to our children it all seems perfect in the end, no matter how many curves or changes in direction happen along the way.
January 14th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
My large China-only agency states that the paperwork cannot be logged in before the one-year anniversary of the adoption of the previous child. This is very different from not starting the actual paperchase until then. My plan had been to beging the paperchase for number 2 as soon as I returned from China and then submit it as I neared the one-year mark. However, as a single (and with the new regulations being inplemented) all of that is now moot.
I am so very thankful, though, to be able to become a mom before that opportunity is no longer available.
Laureen
(Month 25 since beginning the process and…)
leaving for China in 4 days!
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
January 14th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Laureen,
Have a safe, wonderul trip! I’m so excited for you! What a happy time… Enjoy!!
Bloomer
January 14th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Regarding being able to adopt 2 children from China at once (besides a twin referral, of course!):
A family with our agency is adopting two SN children from our agency’s current waiting children list. They are both from the same orphanage. They were told they could do this if one had a severe SN and the other a minor one.
January 15th, 2007 at 12:13 am
You do not have to wait 1 year to get DTCd for a SN child. Many, many people send their LOI even before they travel for their first child and then get DTCd as soon as they complete their paperchase after returned from China.
The 1 year rule only applies to NSN cases. If your agency is saying it is the CCAA that has the 1 year rule they are not being honest. It is an agency rule. Ask around and you’ll find agencies that don’t require you to wait 1 year.
January 15th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Is anyone else getting really angry with the Merry Christmas card bouncing around the CCAA site? Every time I see it now I want to smash my computer! If you’re not going to update the site and let us know we’re through the review process at least take down your freakin card! How hard could it be???
Getting really fidgety and fed-up,
Sarah
3/1/06
January 15th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Our province has the one year rule for any adoption, foreign or domestic. As for being allowed to switch our agency told us that we would not be allowed to switch, but I didn’t ask whose rules these were. We were told that the WC and SN were different. One we choose, and one we would be matched with according to the types of special needs we put down….they are to be getting back to us this week as they say there is a change happening and that it will be in effect for us now. We’ll wait and see what they say for sure. We are waiting for the final word before our dossier is sent to be translated.
January 15th, 2007 at 1:29 am
Bloomer~ You are right. I should of clarified what I meant. Different agencies do their WC lists differently. They are using an agency that receives a list of about 50 children and then they match them with families files that they have. The families fill out a medical need checklist and then the agency kindof works like the CCAA and looks at the childs file and the next family “in line” willing to take that SN. Whoever has their medical needs checklist in first is matched before the next person. Since they only receive 50 children’s files every other month or so and have hundreds of families waiting it makes for a long process. My friend and her husband decided to return to China through SN only and through the same agency as their first adoption. So, they notified them and were told that the wait would be sometime because since the NSN program slowed down, over a hundred families or more had switched to SN. Or at least they will switch to SN if they get matched before they receive their NSN referral.
I have told my friend that there are some other wonderful agencies that let you view the children’s files and then submit a petition. But her husband doesn’t feel comfortable “choosing” the child they should have.
sevenofus
Day 54 ~ saw our son on a list and fell in LOVE!!!!!!!!!
Barbie
January 15th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Wow- the plot thickens! I have no idea what’s going on anymore.
It is interesting concerning the difference between sn & WCP. Our agency received a WC list- and they were also sending in dossiers to be matched by the CCAA for sn. Often, what was happening is that a family would “find” (well, not really, since agencies do the list matches here in Canada- i.e., there are no photolistings, etc.) their child on the agency’s small list AFTER they had been logged-in to the CCAA. The word from our agencies and from some other US agencies who used to do this is that the CCAA will no longer permit this… i.e., if an agency gets a WC list then they cannot also submit dossiers to be matched with sn children. IF your agency does NOT get a WC list, then it can submit your dossier to the CCAA to be matched directly by the CCAA.
SO, maybe the above “rule” about non-switching- which may or may not exist- is only for agencies in the WCP?
Who knows?
I hope someone clarifies all this soon!
January 15th, 2007 at 8:49 am
I wanted very much to adopt another waiting child (my 2nd child, 1st adoption was waiting child from China), but because of the new rules I accepted a NSN single slot and will be one of those rushing to log my dossier in by May. I asked my large, China only agency if I could apply for a waiting child from their list after my dossier is logged in, and they told me that they are not clear about what the rules are at this point. In the meantime, my application letter to the CCAA requests a SN child with congenital heart disease, but if no child is available, then I am happy to accept a healthy child. I am hoping to be able to switch to the waiting child program, but must be logged in by May 1st. I am hoping that my agency can get an anwer to this soon!
January 15th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
There are several instances that I know of directly where a family has adopted 2 unrelated children at 1 time from China. If anyone wants to know the particulars or the agencies, e-mail me and I’ll put you in touch with the people who adopted this way.
Also, like others have stated, the “1 year rule” does not apply to SN/WC adoptions and when an agency has this rule it’s because of them, not the CCAA.
We returned 12/2 with our daughter and sent an LOI 12/6 for a 2 year old boy in the same province. We will be DTC as soon as we receive PA and will travel as soon as TA comes….90-180 days. :)
Mary
http://www.oneblessedfamily.com
January 15th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Thanks a ton for the update, RQ! We are watching SN lists trying to find a specific child, so the CCAA announcing that they were going to re-vamp the SN system in February has had my blood pressure up just a bit – wondering what is going on. SO – I still don’t know what’s going on, but it sounds like it is likely to be a more gradual change than I was thinking it would be. In some ways too bad for us, but a complete change over to having the CCAA do everything very suddenly sounded like a recipe for chaos.
Patricia