Adoption gone bad
We occasionally see horror stories. People who go to China with a referral and three pictures who come home with empty arms and a broken heart.
It does not happen often. I’d say maybe 8 stories a year go public, which probably means there are less than 20 a year.
On one of the most recent horror stories I’ve learned a few things that I think families should know about. With the CCAA’s relatively new rule of “once an adoption is final we will not give another referral”, it seems it is pretty important.
When you receive your daughter, in many cases all of the paperwork is handled the same day. There is no time for you to get to know your child. In the “old days” it was common to get your child on Sunday around mid-day and then finalize everything sometime Monday. So when you are asked questions like “are you happy with her?”, “is she healthy?”, you can honestly answer those questions. But now most people get their child on Monday and finalize everything that same day. I’ve written about this before, about how I wasn’t sure how I could knowledgeably answer the questions in the interview if I had only had her in my arms for an hour. And now, having recently been through that, I just answered the questions the way I needed to answer them so we could adopt her. I had to say, “we just got her but I don’t see any signs of illness”, as I couldn’t bring myself to say she was healthy because I simply did not know that at the time. And within hours of her being handed to us, we were congratulated and told “you are now her legal parents”.
I’ve talked before about how I think the rule in Guangzhou about there being 48 hours between Metcha and finalizing things is a good idea. I understand that not all agencies follow the rule, but I think they should. I believe that most parents want to be able to answer honestly when asked questions that will finalize the adoption.
But it appears that it is not until later in the week, possibly the next week, that the adoption is actually considered final. The blogger I pointed to above tells us the adoption is not finalized until it is actually registered. That’s a pretty important piece of information for families to have if major problems show up the day after the paperwork is handled.
It is true that you don’t receive the final documents until later in the week - is it possible it isn’t final until the documents are given to the parents? Or is the “registration” done even after that?
I would love to have some adoption professionals out there help to educate us on this. If any of you would like to email me with information I think it could be a very helpful thing for the adoption community.
As a side note: I know some families believe that they will accept any child given to them, while others have to be honest about what issues and special needs they can knowingly accept into their family. This is not about judging those who have to make that horrible, horrible, decision. Please don’t take us there in the comments.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
My DW and I have discussed this horrible scenario a few times and after waiting for almost 2 years, I still don’t know how I would react if it happens in our case. As our LID approaches the top and a referral is probable in the next 6 months (3 Nov 2005), I guess our feeling has been that God has selected this child for us for some reason and we should go through with it. I find myself questioning a lot of things during this time of waiting…..this has been the longest 6 months of my life, especially since it is now 18 months!! I guess our decision is that whatever child is selected for us, we will take with open arms. I guess an absolute worst case scenario is that this child will feel loved before it leaves this earth in whatever time she has.I pray that we are not in that situation.
Dave
April 19th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
The author of the blog you linked to above obviously had a bad experience with her agency. But, I find it hard to believe that as she states “The days of adopting a healthy, young, baby girl are over”. Maybe I am just being naive.
April 19th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
The bottom line: is to have your ‘eyes wide open’ when you go through IA. Most of the time everything will be fine, and in rare instances there will be a problem. The point about the ‘when the adoption of our daughters is finalized in China’ is really important and once again I have to say thank you for making this point clear. This is something really important to file away in my head. Thanks. RQ
April 19th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Thank you RQ for passing along this very important information.
April 19th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Dear RQ and My Friends,
When our daughter, Ellie, was given to us in March 2004 she looked completely lovely and healthy. A year later we were terrified to see her become crippled with seizures. Her neurologist noted something in the left hemisphere of her brain. An abnormality. Her siezures are caused soley by fever and not epilipsy like was originally thought. Terrifying to witness she has had 6 or 7 in the last 2 years.
Would I have declined her if they had told me she would have this disorder for 6 years or all of her life.
Never.
Never.
She was ours from the moment we opened our package.
All my best,
Jeanne
LID 6/15/06
April 19th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Welcome back RQ, Thanks for this important info
I apreciate that you never leave us hanging on
such important topics such is this one.
Lid 11/18/05
http://www.ost.redthreadkids.org
Spam word-Mama…Boy,will that be music to my ears!
April 19th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Welcome back RQ.
And thanks for the link. Much of what that blog says, I agree with, and I’m so sorry any child and any parent has to go through such a terrible thing.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
skingspan,
We’ve been home for six months with our new daughter. She was nine months and ten days the day we met her and as healthy as can be - not so much as a runny nose. The other babies in our group were equally as healthy, and from what I read on my large DTC Yahoo group, the vast, vast majority of the babies referred this past August have done wonderfully. I certainly would not agree with the bloggers statement, although I know there are cases where babies are quite unhealthy when they meet their new parents. Most of the time it seems like they show vast and rapid improvement with good nutrition and one-on-one care. I’m not saying the situation mentioned doesn’t happen, just that it seems like it’s pretty rare.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
I have looked at her blog but I don’t see anything about her experience..other than having a referral for a waiting child denied to her.
She has a link which doesn’t work perhaps there is where her story is..but mostly I see just her complaints about her agency
Is there somewhere else I can see her story??
April 19th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
As I said, the vast majority of adoptions go through without a hitch. Many babies are healthy, some are not.
Let’s not get sidetracked here.
My point here is to find out for sure when the adoption is considered final in China’s eyes.
As a-parents I think we need to know the process and understand what happens during each step and what the ramifications of each step are. I consider myself fairly well educated about the process, and this is something I didn’t know.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Is the rest of her story up yet? I read three posts, which seemed more like teasers. Would like to read a full account of what happened so I can understand better.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
http://chew.typepad.com/jenute/2007/04/welcome_to_grea.html
for the rest of the story.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
One of the main reasons I went and left DH at home instead of the other way around is that I am a teacher for children with severe/profound disabilities. I felt much more confident in being able to spot major problems. I was very cautious about making sure my daughter was OK before proceeding with the adoption paperwork….she was pretty delayed physically and has struggled since we got home with her emotions, but it was clear she was OK and just needed A LOT of love/help. I love my job, but I knew parenting a child with severe disabilities was not for my family. We went with China to adopt a healthy baby. I could have adopted a child with major special needs here in the U.S. and a least have been assured the child had Medicaid until he/she turned 18. I am not so sure that my agency would have been super willing to help me had something gone wrong, but you better believe I would have HOUNDED them until they did. I can honestly say if I were to do it again, I’d probably NOT choose the same agency. I just CANNOT imagine leaving China with empty arms.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
I agree with janey1245, I can’t find the details of the story either. She also seemed to be on the SN list but of that I am not sure.
My first daughter is also adopted (domestic) and she was drug exposed/depenant at birth. We knew this and thought we could handle it. I am a masters level social worker and have seen many things in my work. It took six long months of non-stop screaming, not crying, screaming (unless sleeping or eating) until she was detoxed. There were many days I wanted to return her but I knew I could not because this was MY daughter. If I had given birth to her I could not “giver her back” so I knew I would have to struggle through with her. I went on prozac and cried as much as she did but with the help of an amazing community of friends and family we got through it. SHe is an amazing 6 year old today.
Knowing your limits as an adoptive parent is key. One should not sign up for the SN list with the hopes of the wait being shorter without much thought into what SN means. I am greatful for the info in the article and will request documents from my agency to review prior to leaving.
Adomom
LID12-5-05
April 19th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
You will have to stay tuned to the site for the details of the story. There is much more to it.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
How do so many people already know about this story and so many of us are in the dark? Is there another place her story is published at?
April 19th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
dragonmom: I read that post and felt like I was just getting a preview of something to come.
waitingkate7: I will stay tuned.
rq: Thanks for alerting us to this. We need to be as prepared as possible.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
I have volunteered to speak at a seminar called “Introduction to Adoption” next week. As an adoptive parent with experience with both IA from China and private adoption, I think one of the key points I will try to make is that you need to take ownership of the process. Agencies are fine as a resource, but I think if you rely on your agency for all your information you do so at your peril. This story only serves to convince me more that this is an important message people new to the adoption world need to hear.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
An agency should be able to answer hardball questions such as “What do you do when XYZ occurs?” I never had to ask this question because the agency brought it up first! Their SOP is to take the reins, decline the referral by going through the appropropriate channels, and do everything in their power to get another referral while you are still in China. I watched this play out successfully in our travel group. Sad and stressful to observe? Absolutely, but it is the main reason why I would recommend the agency we used.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I linked to this site and read 3 long posts. She is obviously unhappy with ger agency…however am I missing it…what happened in China? What was wrong with the baby?
April 19th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
In our adoption travel group, we received our children on a Sunday and were scheduled to register the adoption on Monday. When we traveled to the office to do this, we noticed that one of the families was not on our bus but one of our facilitators was holding their baby. We found out that the family decided that they could not go through with the adoption for family reasons (the little girl appeared to be healthy and fine) and that the Orphanage Director was going to pick her up at the registration office.
So it is possible to refuse (give back - not sure if there is a kind way of putting that) a child you receive although I don’t know at what point that it is no longer possible. Also you are dealing with two separate governments. There is likely a point where the child is legally yours according to the PRC but that may not be at the same point that they are for the US.
BTW, almost every family in our travel group offered to take the little girl, but evidently she had to go back into the system before she could be adopted again (imagine being abandoned twice!). Needless to say, it was very sad to see the Orphanage Director walk out of that office carrying that little girl.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Thank you for posting this. I am so glad to see the Chew site chewing off some adoption crud. Stay tuned folks. . .
April 19th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I also have to admit I am not prepared to accept an autistic child. My 11 yr old has a few issues and we have put so much energy into his progress. He’s doing just fine but I wouldn’t knowingly sign up for another child with similar issues. If my daughter has issues that are not known at the time of adoption that’s another story. We’ll poor all our energy into her. I’m just not volunteering for it. And I was surprised to learn that there are a view vital conditions like autism aren’t considered special needs. Is this really true?
April 19th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
We adopted 3 weeks ago. We got the babies at the civil affairs office, signed paperwork, gave our fingerprints including the babies fingerprints, and received her official “red book” adoption certificate and it was registered that day. At least all of our paperwork we received was stamped as being officially registered the same day. Our province was Chongqing.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
wickedwitch and waitingkate, what are you talking about? Is something going on?
April 19th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the CCAA does not put children that they KNOW are autistic on the SN list with that label. Also, autism is usually diagnosed at the earliest age 3 or 4…..since many of our babies have some institutional behaviors..rocking, headbanging, spinning toys, etc. (my daughter ripped out big handfuls of hair to comfort herself at sleeptime)……many things they do would look like autistic behaviors. If someone is presented with an infant that is autistic, I doubt a) that they could be totally sure of it b) that the CCAA or the SWI directors just decided autism is not real, so the baby is labelled NSN. The goal of the program is to get the babies successfully adopted, so the SWI directors would not benefit from putting a baby up for IA knowing something was wrong because of the chance of a disruption. I am sure there are many children who have problems that come out later, but I doubt anyone is pulling the wool over the parent’s eyes. I do think your agency should go to bat for you if there is a glaring medical problem.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
I’m with the agency that is the target of these blogs - don’t always believe what you read - sometimes, accounts are skewed and don’t really give the whole, complete story. I’ve had a very good experience with this agency. These blogs don’t really provide any concrete, meaningful or useful information. Now tell me again why are these blogs linked to this site?
April 19th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
You’re right about the age. And I believe more boys are on the autistic spectrum than girls.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
CI66774….but what stage of the process have you gotten to with this agency? Just keep your eyes open.
4X as many boys have autism than girls. Again, SWI babies will often have “autistic behaviors”. I would think some undiagnosed medical problem or a hearing problem would be more of a concern than a developmental disability like autism. But even then, I would not expect there to be a super high incidence.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Dunedin - I’ve been logged in for one year - no complaints whatsoever - My eyes are wide open even when I sleep! :-)
April 19th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
When I first selected my large china only agency I called the BBB about my final two ‘candidates’ and actually selected the one which had no cases on file. While I’m happy with my agency I have often been a bit jealous because it seems like that other agency gives their more information. Did anyone else call the BBB about their agencies?
April 19th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Autism can be diagnosed at 18 months.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
I would just say that some agencies are better at different stages of the process than others. Good to be aware of what you expect at each stage and see how former clients feel about the agency. It’s easy to go to the little agency “meet and greets” and hear all the good stories from the people they’ve hand selected as being SO happy. I think calling the BBB and paying attention to what people’s experiences have been is a good idea.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Dunedin - I absolutely agree- with the caveat that I would take everything people say about agencies - both good and bad - with a monumental “grain of salt.”
April 19th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
CI66774…feel free to PM me if you ever want any specifics on what we’ve been talking about.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
I called the BBB about my agency before I signed up with them. They had no complaints against them.
However, I am less than thrilled with the service I’ve gotten so far. I’ve been LID over 16 months, so I am really REALLY hoping that they are much better at the travel bit. That’s really all I can do at this point, right?
April 19th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
I imagine there are kids labelled autistic at 18 mo., but as a parent, I’d fight it. PDD, maybe, but not autism. ESPECIALLY the babies from the SWI….they can seem SO autistic, and for quite a while. So many of them are dealing with sensory issues as well as self stimulation habits, etc.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Hi - just to give some information about autism (not specific to the website referenced above, but just in general).
Autism is reliably diagnosed between the ages of 2 - 3, though some forms on the autism spectrum may not be accurately diagnosed until a later age.
Very few doctors will give an actual diagnosis of autism before the age of two (especially since autism cannot be diagnosed by medical tests, but rather by a compilation/reading of developmental delays & behaviors). At best, if a child presents with symptoms associated with autism before the age of 2 - the doctors will recommend starting therapies that are used with children who have been diagnosed with autism. That should not be confused with giving an actual diagnosis.
Here is a good site/article to check out for more information:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/327/7413/488
The other to keep in mind with autism and other syndroms such as PDD is that there are other countries which don’t recognize these as diagnoses the same way we in the States do. Medical opinions are not universal. In China - homosexuality is still considered to be a psychiatric disorder (hence their ban on homosexuals being allowed to adopt). We might find that absurd - but we don’t really know how they diagnose autism and PDD in China (and when) or if they recognize those diagnoses in general.
Hope this gives some helpful info for this discussion.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Dunedin - I don’t seem to be able to PM you - I guess I’m a little lost in the “PM” department!!!! :-)
April 19th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
What’s PPD?
April 19th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
PDD= pervasive developmental disorder. It’s sort of a catchall diagnosis for kids who don’t quite fit the diagnosis for autism or who are too young to receive the diagnosis of autism.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
I do know of families who have come home with babies who have autism, aspergers, severe RAD, epilepsy, and a whole host of other things. In an institutional setting many of these things can easily be overlooked.
It is true that babies can appear autistic in the first days, as many of them just shut down with all of the new people and foods and clothes and language and everything else. It’s very hard to say for sure there is a problem for at least a couple of days.
I’d like to clarify again that we do not discuss agencies on this site. I am pointing to this blog, this horror story, because I think the question of when the adoption is actually final is a very important one, and I’m not sure anyone would have understood just how important without the context.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
PDD, pervasive developmental disorder….many kids who later turn out to have autism or a disability are often just said to have PDD while they are very young rather than stick a lifelong label on them…it’s sort of a: we know there is something going on, but let’s not give it a name until the child is older hope things clear up or become more apparent as to what is wrong.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
CI66774…………hmmmmmmmmm, can you try to PM me from the forum???
April 19th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
We returned from China two weeks ago with our daughter. While in China she was very sick, was at the hospital for iv’s, and the orpanage embellished her development. To be honest (and please no judging) we did ask our agency rep what our options were. The doctor in China thought she had cerebal palsy. Our rep basically said, “too bad, you already signed the paperwork.” She then told us that she could present our case to the Chinese government and that it would be there decision on whether or not to give us another child. She said usually they don’t. We signed the paperwork the day after Gotcha Day, and she started getting sick just hours later.
I’m glad we have her, she’s doing 110% better, but I really think the paperwork should be signed at least a few days after Gotcha Day, rather than the next morning.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Just as an fyi–we just got home with our Sarah March 30th. She is from Guangdong so of course our entire process was in Guangzhou. We received her on a Monday afternoon and did not finalize the adoption until the next day (if indeed it was finalized then as per this discussion!) so at least there you still have that 24 hours (well a bit less in our case…at least overnight!) before you actually adopt the baby.
Having been through 2 adoptions and on the forums, groups, blogs etc. for 2 years, I’m beginning to think the most important criterion for me is the in-China service you get from your agency! We often found stateside communication frustrating, but once we were there, both times, we had a superb experience. Feel free to email me at sbrueckel@gmail.com for more details!
:-)
Steph
April 19th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
So, all you parents who’ve adopted from China before, when did this rule of immediately signing the legal adoption papers? (or shortly thereafter) ?
Is this relatively new, or is it something we’ve just not heard about?
Snick
lid Oct 31/05
April 19th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Until sometime late last year the CCAA would give another referral if a family asked for it as long as they were still in China. There were people who got to GZ and and went back to the province for another referral, even.
I’d have to look to see when, we talked about it when it was announced, but sometime last year the CCAA told agencies that under no circumstances would another referral be given after the adoption was final. They also said that even if the adoption is not final, they would now make a determination about whether another referral was warranted or not.
And, also last year, most provinces stopped bringing the babies to the hotel on Sunday and letting you go to the Civial Affairs office the next day.
These two things combined meant that parents only had a matter of hours to make any decisions that might need to be made.
I want to stress that the vast majority of adoptions in China are of healthy babies with developmental delays.
But, if you are part of that fraction of a percentage point where this does not happen, then that is all that matters. And I think knowledge is power, so I’d like to try to get an answer as to when the adoption is actually final in China’s eyes.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Hello all. And thanks, RQ for linking to my blog.
My purpose is not to slam my agency (although it comes off that way by just telling the truth), but rather to educate people about what can happen and warn them not to do business with a company I BELIEVE is not what an adoption non-profit should be. I learned a great deal by doing research on the China adoption legal process AND my agency by doing a little work. It’s amazing what you can find on the Internet. I also had an Attorney in China who gave me some good insight on the Chinese legal forms and what is considered legally binding in China, and what is not.
Those who are researching agencies should check out the BBB at least, and go further by checking out GuideStar (I have links on my blog). It can really give you a sense of the ethics of the non-profit you are doing business with.
What happened to me almost destroyed me. I never, ever want it to happen to another family. That is why, after 3 months of being home, I decided to talk. I waited quite a while to do so, and now, the last few days, my husband and I wait for the lawsuit to come bangin’. We have a bet going on how fast we’ll get sued, or at least another Cease and Desist.
Some things I’d like to clarify for the commenters here (and the very important item that RQ has wanted to stick to) is YOUR ADOPTION IS NOT LEGALLY FINALIZED UNTIL IT IS REGISTERED BY THE NOTARY IN THE PROVINCE WHERE YOUR CHILD IS FROM. At least that is what it states on CCAA’s own website: “Adoption Laws of the PRC”, Article 15.
My agency, unfortunately, did not seem to know this information and it caused me a mass amount of drama in China. As I understand it, the Registration is the “chop” (stamp in red), and it is usually done around 5-7 days AFTER Gotcha. The red chop will have a date under it. This is the date your adoption is finalized IN CHINA.
Let’s not forget about the Harmonious Period, too. RQ: Maybe you’d like to discuss this document at some point so I don’t hijack your blog. ;)
What I find remarkable, after going through Guat adoption (with an AMAZING agency) is that no one knows this stuff. And it’s really, really important! Why the secrecy???
Also, I hate the idea of being judged by the decision I had to make, but I knew by going public that I would be. The child I was referred had some severe issues we were not capable of parenting. I also have a disabled sibling I must care for when my parents pass. This is not the kind of decision one makes willy-nilly, and no, I don’t believe god had anything to do with it. I’ve been through far too much IF treatment to think that.
Also, *I* am not saying *all* kids coming out of China are sick. This was an adoption professional telling me this. Again, this is people mis-reading and I’m not going to waste my time going over this, and I don’t really care what the nay-sayers or those that lack reading comprehension skills think anyway.
In addition. For the mild complaints of my blog being a “teaser”. I have a 19 month old I adopted from Guatemala (the light of my life) who rightly and joyfully takes up most of my time. I simply do not have the time to write my whole story right now. It is not meant to be a tease, it’s just that it is very long, and very complicated. That’s all.
I met personally with the Director of the CCAA while in Beijing to plead for this child to be listed as Special Needs. They declined. I will post on the issues with the child and why they declined in an upcoming post, as I think ***it super critical for adoptive parents to know what the CCAA considers SN and NSN****.
(btw: this child was NOT on the SN list at our referral)
Okay. I think that’s it. I’ve gotten so much support and love from so many out there in Cyberworld, that I thought I could maybe help out with a few words of caution & warning. How can I live with myself if I keep my mouth shut?
That’s all. And please keep reading Chew.
April 19th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
There are agencies that call the SWI upon referral to verify that the child referred is healthy and still available. Sometimes the SWI will send information to CCAA and problems arise after the child’s paperwork has been processed and the CCAA is not informed of the changes. I know my agency calls and checks with the individual SWI, a small percentage of the children referred as NSN children in fact have special needs. As a parent you can turn down a referral and be given a new referral within a few weeks.
April 19th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
My baby’s referral info was 6 mo. old. I never got an update. My agency did not call or offer to call. ANYTHING could have been wrong when I got her.
April 19th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
The above poster is correct: a case happened with a known person/agency — a serious, terminal-illness-type problem discovered after the initial (next-day) paperwork signed but BEFORE adoption legally finalized as described above: and CCAA did move mountains to findanother (healthier) child for the parents. You CAN press for assistance and make changes while in China: so don’t let your agency pressure you otherwise. This was recent (in 2007) and the CCAA did help the parents.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
To RumorQueen: Thanks so much for sending us to Chew. I welcome any and all information about this process. It is unfortunate that most of us (if not all of us) have agencies that don’t provide this kind of information. They either don’t know about it (which isn’t good) or sharing it is bad for business. Even though adoption agencies are non-profit organizations, they are still businesses. And to survive in the business world, the bottom line has to always be about money.
To VintageUterus: First of all, I am incredibly sorry for your loss and tremendous struggle. My wish for you is to find peace and joy in all areas of your life. Secondly, I applaud your courage in sharing your experience and your guts to name your agency. I hope they do not sue you and I bet they won’t. If they sue you, they will have to expose information about their operations, practices and policies. I don’t think that is something many agencies would eagerly pursue.
In a previous discussion at RQ, regarding the wait time extending to 30 months or more, many folks felt that several agencies were being dishonest, or at least less than forthcoming, to clients and potential clients about the reality of the wait times. I, too, have felt that the agency “party line†has been to be less than upfront about the realities of this process. (I believe that most agencies are more concerned about their relationships with CCAA than they are concerned about the best interests of their paying clientele.)
I respect your desire to encourage an open, honest and fearless discussion about these types of issues.
In the international adoption community, we owe it to ourselves and each other to be truly supportive. We should always share our joyful stories and happy news. But, as we all know, there are many times when we feel confused, sad, frustrated, and even angry with this process. It does us no good to suppress different viewpoints, avoid honest debate, or ignore negative realities. It is no different than a pregnancy test - - - -
a false positive is still a negative.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
This blog listed that agency as earning over 10 mil. in one year. Some non-profit.
So, I went to the non-profit link provided and checked mine. It makes under 25 grand each year.
That makes me feel much better about my little group: Honest and really non-profit.
wBw
April 19th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
I had a friend who in 2005 received her referral in the same month as me. However, I received my referral a few days before her because she was using the complained about mentioned agency. That agency she said checked out all the referrals by contacting the SWIs and asking for updated info on all the children. They didn’t want the parents receiving a sick child. Obviously something has happened since then as this story mentions. But, our agency that we’re thrilled with did not do this and our daughter’s information was five months old. Our agency said that China doesn’t give updated information unless the information is older than six months.
April 19th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
I read the blog and it left me quite confused.
It seemed like the blogger was saying that she accepted the referral of a child from the WC list and the child turned out to be SN. I thought all the children on the WC list were SN?
The other thing that I do not understand is, if the blogger had disinvested herself from China and had moved on to Guatemala, why did she accepted the China referral?
April 19th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
This is a very disturbing thread for the waiting families.
RQ, I appreciate the heads-up about understanding our legal standing if things go wrong while we’re in China.
VintageUterus, I’ve been watching this blog forever and I don’t recognize your sign-on. Congratulations on your Guatemalan adoption. I understand that you had a heart-wrenching experience in China. I have to say though that your blog leaves many unanswered questions. We’re still waiting for the whole story.
April 19th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Hello,
It is interesting that this post is on here today. We were contacted by our adoption agency on Monday to view a baby with the special need Hepatitis B. When I looked at this little girl’s face for the first time I thought she was beautiful but my gut told me something wasn’t right. I have another adoptive friend who has had experience with a child with Hep B and when I called her to tell her the news she told me is was not a serious problem and to jump all over it. Before throughly reasearching the disease for myself I sent this baby’s info to my husband at work who in turn told me to except her and I called my agency. To be safe I e-mailed this baby’s info to an adoption medical specialist in the area to get a medical opinion. Wednesday morning I recieved a call from this specialist who hit me hard with this news…. “Your child could get liver cancer at any time although it usually happens later in life. She may have to have a liver biopsy done every year. She may be on meds the rest of her life. Are you financially able to provide this for her?” Truthfully on a $50,000 a year income with 2 boys already, my answer was no. It killed me. I already had printed out this princess’ picture for my 9 year old son to take to school and tell them after a 15+ month wait FINALLY he had a sister. My 5 year old took this picture to show and tell. We had to go through with it now, didn’t we???
After talking with my husband for hours we realized our sons may end up resenting this baby if she was taking so much time away from them because mommy and daddy had to go to the hospital, or you can’t play baseball because your sister’s medical bills are too high. Etc., Etc… We had no choice but to pass her up. I threw up.. I couldn’t quit shaking… I was SICK beyond words, I saw my husband cry for the first time since his dad died 10 years ago…
Before this experince I was very shallow. On a Blog recently there was a story about a little girl in China and the family went to get her. After being there for 5 days they decided they couldn’t take this baby. (The reason wasn’t explained) After seeing this I called my adoption agency because these folks were from the same agency I am with (the story has since been removed) and told them how horrible I thought these people were and why could they not just have these people bring her home so I could take her. My agency was very understanding toward these people currently in China and told me to remember there could always be circumstances that can happen that always aren’t apparent to us and these people we DEVISTATED…
I admire VentageUterus now. I cannot imagine how you must have felt making that decision. It is hard to pass on something you want so bad but at the same time know you have to put your current family first. I have so much more wisdom and understanding through this and know that God had this happen for a reason to show me that it’s not always black and white. I have asked to be removed from the WC list since then. I can’t let a sad little face influence a decision that potentially hurt them and our family. I hope that doesn’t sound harsh but unfortunatley I can’t save the whole world and every orphan in it although I would like to. My husband wants to keep waiting for a NSN Child. Part of me wants to, but the other part is full of “what ifs??” I don’t think I could take a chance of getting another precious face that I fall in love with and get to China only to find out she’s very sick or that something could happen that would cause the adoption to fall through. I couldn’t bare to once again come home and explain to my sons why thier sister isn’t here… again…. It’s scary and I hold on to RQ’s statement that most adoptions in China turn out perfectly fine. Should I just be happy with what I have? I hope I can get over this grief soon and make a decision based on my heart and head rather than just my heart and stupidity this time. I know this post today was meant somewhat for me. For those of us that have never went through turning down a child it has to suck more than anything. I will not judge from now on but pray. It is NOT an easy decision. I feel SO BAD for Ventage. I only know a little of what she’s been through. I will keep you in my prayers and that you continue to recover from this… God bless
Mkmel
LID 2-14-06
April 19th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Maedaddy,
If you read Vintage’s story she states that her adoption agency did not tell the CCAA to pull her dossier and she STILL got a referral. As an infertile mother she decided to go ahead and except this referral as well as going to Guatemala… I would have done the same! : ) Hope this helps!
April 19th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
waitbabywait - I also accessed Guidestar and read this agency’s info - I read that the agency had Total Revenue of a little over 10 million in 2005- NOT a profit of 10 million. Revenue and Profit are two totally different concepts and mean two totally different things. They had Total Expenses (comprised of overhead, grants, variable costs, etc) of 8 mil - that leaves a much lower profit - not unreasonable or unheard of for a company that size (I’ve worked for several non-profits that really make huge profits of 100s of millions of dollars a year). Also it lists that the President of the Agency makes about $100,00 a year - not much - I make more than that and probably work alot less. FYI - a “not-profit coporation” can make a profit - it just can’t distibute dividends, gains, etc to shareholders or members as a “for profit” does. Just wanted to straighten this out so that others reading your post are not misled. Of course, if you feel my analysis is wrong, please let me know.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:20 am
WaitbabyWait - just as a comparison - another very large China-only agency made the same “profit” as the agency in the blog and the other large China-only agency president made 50% more in salary than the agency in the blog. It’s always good to get the facts and put everything in context so that a clear and accurate picture can be seen.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:34 am
Our adoption was finalized 2/27/07. Our gotcha day was 24 hours prior, we had to sign a “harmonious period” document which allowed us to be her legal guardian until the next day when our adoption was official. Our adoption was in Guangxi.
That being said, some parents in our group (adopted an older child from a different province) had a *very* rough beginning with their son, I heard they questioned adopting him, and were told it was too late - he was basically theirs. Things seemed to get better for them, but I’m pretty sure their adoption trip was mostly horrendous. And this family was not blind or uneducated to IA, they had adopted another child from China previously.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:54 am
I’m not comfortable talking about agencies here. I’ve asked several times that we stay on topic, which is about the law in China pertaining to when the adoption is final.
I have company coming in this weekend and I’m not going to be around much if any. I’m going to close the comments on this thread since I’m not going to be able to keep an eye on what is being said and keep herding the conversation back in the right direction.