Follow Up, Adoption Gone Bad
I think we have some more answers to when the adoption is final and what the implications of this are. From people’s experiences, it sounds like it is usually considered final by the orphanage director and by the Civil Affairs office if you’ve signed the paperwork, and not based on whether it has been registered or not. Yet, it also appears that even if you’ve signed the papers, if you are still in the province then it is still possible to get another referral if your agency goes to bat for you. In fact, using the emails I’ve received of people’s experiences it sounds like your chances of receiving another referral are about the same whether you’ve signed or not, but it is an easier process if you speak up before you sign. However, once you leave the province with the baby it sounds like it is probably going to be close to impossible to get another referral. Here are the three scenarios: before signing, after signing, after going to GZ:
- No matter what, it looks like the CCAA and orphanage need to have a doctor say there is a problem before they will consider giving another referral. If you say there is a problem before you start signing things you still have to have a doctor document the problem in order to get another referral. I’ve had people contact me who refused to sign anything and went straight to a doctor and who had another baby the next day and stayed with their travel group’s schedule. I’ve also had people who refused to sign anything and who documented the problem with multiple doctors and who did not get another referral. I have an email from one person who spoke up before signing anything and who went home without a baby and had to do some serious talking to their agency in order to get them to advocate for them - the agency finally did and the family received another referral a few months later and went back to China.
- If you document a problem with a doctor while you are still in the province but after you’ve signed things then you can still get another referral but it complicates things. Apparently you have to get a lot of people to approve this including your agency, the CCAA, the orphanage director, and the Civil Affairs people - any of them can refuse to allow it and having your signature helps give them a reason to refuse. Also, sometimes it’s hard to make it happen because the orphanage director does not want to admit that they missed something, and it sounds like you run into this whether you bring up an issue before or after you begin signing things, but doing it after you’ve signed things gives them another excuse to argue with you about it. As for timing, most of the time speaking up after you’ve begun signing things will create a delay in travel plans and you will not travel to GZ with the rest of your group. As for the babies left behind, I’ve been told of several cases of people having to make the decision to leave a child and their agency continuing to advocate for this child and the family being updated on the child’s status - that they were put on a SN list, or that they have received needed surgery and are doing well in foster care. There are also cases of families who are haunted by not knowing what happened to the child they had to leave behind.
- If you wait until you are in GZ to bring up a problem then your odds go down a great deal. No one has contacted me who has done this in the past year and still received another referral. You not only have to show that a problem exists, but you have to be able to convince the authorities that you had no way of seeing this while in province, that it just presented itself as a problem. And even then you may not get another referral.
I have received heartbreaking, gutwrenching, emails. Emails of people who felt that they were being pitted against orphanage director and nannies and provincial authorities and their agencies were not really helping them. They were scared and alone. Families going to doctors and hospitals and getting documentation of the problem and no one even wanting to look at the documentation. And this is not just mental health issues, one of the emails involved a child with a serious heart issue - the child was light blue. For a self employed family with health insurance that will not cover a pre-existing condition for adopted children this was a very hard situation to be in. And their facilitator would not help them and was angry with them for stating there was a problem.
I have also received emails of people who had a great facilitator who stood behind them and fought tooth and nail for them and who managed to get them another referral. Facilitators who stood between the family and the angry orphanage director to try to buffer some of the anger. These emails are still heartbreaking, but the sense of alienation is not there since they had someone in their corner who was there for them during this horrible, horrible time. These are facilitators who not only know their stuff on the legal issues, but who were there for the families as emotional support as well. There are obviously some incredible facilitators out there, or maybe I should say incredible human beings who are working as facilitators.
I also received an email from someone who had their agency basically say “tough, if you turn this child down you won’t get another referral, we will help you reschedule tickets to go home immediately”. This person had an internet friend there with another agency and the friend talked to her agency and the OTHER agency’s facilitator saw the child and realized there was a problem and went to bat for this family and got them a new referral and got the CCAA to put the child on a SN list. The child has not been seen on a list yet, but the CCAA has stated that she will be placed on one in the near future. The other agency has kept tabs with the orphanage and the CCAA about the child.
From the emails I’ve received it sounds like the difference in outcomes is mostly dependent on your facilitator and your agency and how strongly they go to bat for you. I’ve talked before about the fact that an agency’s true importance is what they do for you in China. We may be upset with our agencies for not knowing how long the wait will be but in the end that isn’t anywhere near as important as their in-China staff. If you have a problem and you aren’t happy with the facilitator’s response then do everything you can to get the facilitator to your side, but if you can’t then I’d say you should get the agency involved as quickly as possible and hope that they straighten the facilitator out.
One thing I want to be clear on, in many cases I don’t think you can know for sure if a child has a problem until you’ve had the child for at least a week. If a child is handed to you who seems autistic, the odds are that this child has just shut down due to the trauma of the handover and will be fine in a few days, or next week. I’ll use my own daughter as an example here: I was recently handed a skinny baby with major skin issues who appeared autistic, but within a few days she was laughing and playing. We’re still working on getting some weight on her, she’s at the bottom of the Chinese charts for height (the 3rd percentile) and she weighs about 3/4’s of the 3rd percentile weight on the Chinese charts (meaning she’s not even on the Chinese chart at all). She’s not anywhere close to being on the American charts for either height or weight. But she’s got decent muscle tone and she is eating well and slowly (ounce by ounce) putting a bit of weight on. She was malnourished to the point that her bloodwork showed it when we got home and she is on extra vitamins and a few other things and I already see a marked improvement in her skin and in the way she looks out of her eyes. She is developmentally delayed to the extent it was scary at first, but she is rapidly catching up. Still, according to the books she’s still only doing what babies half her age should be able to do. My husband and I signed every paper that was put in front of us within a few hours of her being placed in our arms. Should we have? With this knowledge, maybe not. But I just knew that she was shut down and it would be okay. And my husband took my word for it. Riding back to the hotel on the bus with her was scary, she’s close to two years old and I’ve seen a newborn go home from the hospital with about the same amount of muscle tone. But our story has a happy ending. We have a happy, giggly, baby who just might be a genius. She’s picked up more English since we’ve had her than I’ve been able to learn of Chinese in years. And she’s picked up a ton of sign language, too. She’s still a long, long, ways from talking with words, but she can communicate her needs quite well. And those first weeks she was almost disgusted by kisses and hugs, now (as of this weekend) she freely gives kisses and hugs.
What am I getting at? I’m saying that just because you are handed a baby who is beyond skinny and appears autistic it doesn’t mean there is something really bad wrong. But it certainly means that something MIGHT be, and you should think about what you are going to do in that situation. I have had several people email me that they or someone in their travel group had concerns and told their agency and their agency made arrangements for them to have a few days before signing the paperwork and within a few days they realized everything was okay and they signed everything and are now living happily ever after. This is possible, if you want some time you can have it. And I would say it’s a good idea to have the expenses for an extra week in China in your budget, just in case.
Remember, if you return a child to the orphanage it is possible that this child will never get another chance at a family. Please, be very sure about things before you say for sure that there is a problem. Speak up as soon as you think there MIGHT be a problem, but spend the time to be certain about things before you state that there absolutely IS a problem.
And if you are sure there is a problem, and you have to make the gutwrenching decision to not adopt that child, to not take that child home with you, please try to get your agency to stay involved with this child’s case and continue advocating for him or her.
And finally, it appears that families in the NSN program are handed a SN child with greater frequency than I originally thought. I will still say that the vast majority of babies are relatively healthy, but from the emails I’ve received it appears that there are problems a lot more often than I had stated in my previous post about this subject.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:31 am
RQ, thank you for this information. Of course I hope to never be faced with the gut-wrenching decision of whether to actually adopt the child I’m referred, but better to be armed with some knowledge going into the process.
I adopted my first when she was 15 months old. She was tiny, skinny and so floppy she couldn’t sit up independently. I wondered whether she had spinal issues, but she was so aware and bright and I was so in love I just somehow knew she would be all right. Within 2-3 days she was able to roll herself over and was sitting upright on her own about a day after that. She did have an issue that would have classified her as “special needs” had it been pre-identified. Thankfully that has resolved, but I think you’re right about there being a lot more SN babies referred through the NSN program than is generally believed.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:32 am
RQ, thanks for going bravely into this scary territory. So glad everything turned out with your little one.
April 25th, 2007 at 10:36 am
Rq,
Thanks for sharing your story. Our gal was soo quiet and scared when we got her. We thought something might be wrong too. I’ll never forget. My husband and I stood over her crib on the 3rd day we had her. She woke up, and smiled ear to ear for the very first time.
We knew it was okay.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:00 am
I’ve read this post several times before deciding to post. The summary of information you provide is invaluable. Our DD#1 was 14 mos and was the same as many other babies. She was so small she wore 6 mos clothes. She was barely crawling and a bit listless for 2 days when she started to blossom. She was also below the 5% on US growth charts. Now she is 50-75% for height and weight. The transformation was pretty fast, although she didn’t start to have that “shine” in her eyes until several months later. Now, she’s 4yrs old, cute, smart, independent and full of energy. We did have a one day grace period before signing final documents.
I would urge parents to use this information wisely, and not to jump to conclusions which may cause UNDO stress and delays. Again, thanks RQ for all the info, stats and analysis that you do for us.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Thank you for this post, RQ. Thank you for your candor regarding your own recent experiences AND for the solid information - information we might have a hard time getting from agencies. Knowledge is power. And we certainly don’t want to be “powerless” for such a monumental event, especially in light of your last paragraph.
We will not be afraid to ask for more time (before signing anything) if suspect we need it; your mention of this introduces an option that some of us may not have considered.
Kudos, too, for “internet friends” and the “OTHER agency’s facilitator” that went to bat for that the family whose agency said “tough…” I can’t imagine being in that situation.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:07 am
When we started this process 2 years ago I searched everywhere for the “horror” stories. I wanted to know everything about adoptions from China not just all the rosey stuff. I couldn’t find any and found that reassuring but figured there had to be a few. At least now new families will have more info available to evaluate while making their decision to adopt.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Many, many thanks RQ. This is a tough topic, but it needs to be reviewed. Parents need to go to China fully prepared. I am sure the CCAA would agree with this.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:15 am
Your point about the true test of an agency is what they do in-China is so important for people to remember. So many people get their heads turned by the agency presentation, the friendliness of the agency reps, and a supposed “good” relationship with CCAA.
Our agency had none of this–but when we were in serious trouble in China (paperwork issues), our agency was a real champ. Not only did they solve the problem, they did so without yelling at us–which they certainly were entitled to do since it was our mistake.
If you are still looking for an agency, check their references. Talk to the families and ask them how the agency handled the trip to China. I think very few prospective agency clients bother to do this.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Thank you so much for sharing this, RQ. It is so helpful and reassuring to know up-front that our Gotcha day may not look like so many blogs depict it to be. With such a long wait, we find more things to think, learn and worry about. I appreciate the opportunity to go into this situation with much more understanding of how it could/ should work. You, and others who share your experiences, really inspire DH and I to be brave, retain some element of trust in this whole process, and find our way back to the joy and excitement we had when we celebrated being officially logged-in.
Your little girls are fortunate to have you for a mommy. Another stellar example of the CCAA “getting it right,” and choosing the right child for the right family.
LID 02/07/06
April 25th, 2007 at 11:31 am
RQ,
Is there any way of knowing for sure what type of facilitators you have? I believe that our agencies rep.’s are fabulous, but how can you be sure? This has brought up some concerns for our family. We have autism on both sides (BIL and Nephew) and know that is not something we have the capacity to deal with long term. That said we still feel that China is the right route for us. I just want to be sure we are fully prepared, as I hope we are going fairly soon!
ff
10/31/05
April 25th, 2007 at 11:36 am
I just printed out this post to remind my self that I’m not alone. There are others out there like me. Jen/chew and RQ thanks for letting me know there are others who also left China heartbroken. Everyone’s story is not the same mine fits into all of the story’s. My life is before China and now after. Still trying to get on with my life after China is not easy.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Someone emailed me the following link and I’d like to share it with ya’ll.
http://www.orphandoctor.com/stories/ours/lili.html
I really want to stress that families need to work very hard towards making sure there is a problem before they feel they need to take steps towards not following through with an adoption for a particular child. My original point is what to do if there is a problem, but while I’m making that point I want to be clear that many times there appears to be a problem where there is not. If you think there is a problem then ask for more time before you need to sign things, but please take the time to be sure before you decide to not adopt the child that has been placed in your arms.
I want us to be prepared in case we must do the unthinkable, but I also want us to recognize that the appearance of a problem does not necessarily mean there is a problem.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Wow. I am deeply grateful to Jen/Chew for sharing her gut-wrenching story with us & making me aware of what can happen, and to you for bringing it to our attention and gathering, distilling, and sharing all of this information. Without you two, I would probably not have seriously considered the possibility that this could happen to me, and would definitely not have a clue what to do if it did. I am lucky to be with an agency that by all accounts provides outstanding guidance and support in China, but still, I’ll now be better equipped to ask questions, delaying signing, demand help, etc. if I sense something is wrong. Thank you RQ and Jen.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
I thank you for writing about this subject RQ, as I think that this is definitely one of those very scary or almost taboo topics that parents don’t always want to talk about or “go there.” It’s important and we all have to be prepared. We traveled in 2003 to China to adopt our first daughter. I’m a peds RN, and I received many, many questions from my travel group members after we got our children-specifically developmental questions, what was normal or not? Many travel groups have RNs, physicians, PT’S, OT’S and special ed teachers who are fellow adoptive parents. I encourage you to use them as a resource and call your pediatrician at home if you have ANY questions. No question is silly. And always go with your gut feelings.
momtoGrace LID 11/06
April 25th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
And, finally, a list of medical resources in China broken down by province
http://www.adoptmed.org/topics/medical-resources-in-china.html
April 25th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
RQ…once again I sit here in awe of what you do here for China adoption community. I defy anyone….agency, or individual…to give me one possible negative for someone not learning from your blog.
Are there really agencies out there still telling people to avoid RQ???
Thanks again.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
This is really good info to have. I really appreciate the encouragement to prepare for an extra week in China - just in case. I hadn’t thought about that. Thanks, RQ.
During our 1st homestudy in 2003, our SW prepared us well regarding this topic. I guess from her experience. She gave us good suggestions for interacting with the baby the first couple of days - esp. if we felt like something wasn’t quite right. Things that might help us determine if it was mostly delays,etc. But, she emphasized that after that, we needed to be firm about insisting on testing or whatever - if we still felt like something wasn’t right.
In our homestudy visits for this adoption she again talked strongly about this. She said we needed to talk ahead of time and know what we could or couldn’t deal with in case something came up. She also said that since we would be so in love with that baby since getting her picture, sometimes its harder to be objective about making decisions in China. One of us had to be designated to be the strong one in case we faced certain decisions. (She told us a horror story that I won’t repeat, but that really put everything into perspective for us)
But, she didn’t just talk about those things, she also prepared us well for developmental delays and such.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Wow, what a powerful message RQ…..our first little package came to us at one year old, a skinny 16 pounder who hated the sight of Mom and couldn’t sit up. Of course days later ate the White Rose and White Swan out of watermelon and scrambled eggs. We were scared to death the first day but had an angel as a facilitator who held our hand every bit of the way. My suggestion? Find out as much as you can about your facilitator and how they can be your complete advocate during the trip. Settle for nothing less……John
April 25th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
We used an agency that sends a physician with every travel group. The physician sent with us had been on a number of such trips. Consequently, he has seen lots of babies out of SWI and foster care. He recognized readily in our group one baby with significant issues, the child was declined and a another referral given. I strongly recommend agencies who send doctors. I wouldn’t do it any other way.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Thank you, RQ, for letting me relate our story. We had a slightly different situation with our second referral. The child was referred as healthy and not listed as special needs, but when I had my Chinese teacher read the medical report the night of our referral she said that the child had some medical issues that she did not understand but sounded serious. She gave me the name of her doctor and I took everything, including the extra photograph of the back of the child’s head, to her.
Turned out that she had some potentially serious deformities that would need a lot of care. Having a two year old at home, we made the painful decision to refuse that referral. Working very closely with our agency, their rep in China (who was our guide both times) and a doctor in China, we very carefully and respectfully made our case citing the best interests of the daughter we had at home. Complicating things further, a month after our LID I lost my job and although I was working (temporarily on contract) at the time of the referral we still faced an uncertain future. Of course we couldn’t disclose that, but it certainly factored into our decision.
Nobody knew if we would receive another referral but we took our chances. After an agonizing wait, we received the referral of our second daughter. We can’t imagine life without R but still wonder and worry about the other little girl. I constantly scan message boards looking for her name but of course there is always the possibility that her new family doesn’t participate. We just hope for the best for her, that she was able to find a family who could give her the care that she needed.
Fortunately for us the decision was made at home rather than in China. I’m pretty sure that if the problem was hidden until we got there we would not have changed our minds, but until it happens you don’t know. Having been through an experience almost as hard I can not fault a family for doing so and will never judge a family’s decision.
Sadly, I can’t say that everyone has been supportive and we now know not to mention the refusal. On several occasions when it has come up, people in the adoption community have said that it was a terrible thing to do. Maybe, but in the end we did what was best for our family. Our girls are best friends and we couldn’t be happier. We will never know if things would have worked out or not, the most we can do is hope for the best for that little girl.
Something that klem said made me want to relate our story. Since this happened I have said that any adoption agency can push papers and get you a child. The true test of an agency is when something goes wrong and in this case our agency came through with flying colors. They supported us completely. We were never judged and they trusted our decision.
Ken
April 25th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Thank you RQ for posting this information.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
funfam - I think the best way to determine if your agency has good representatives in China is to talk to other families from your agency who have already traveled and adopted. From my personal perspective, I watched as my agency’s provincial rep. helped out families from another agency with passports and then again, watched as the Guangzhou Rep. helped out families from another agency with paperwork issues at the US Consulate staying after we were all done with our interviews. These were only minor paperwork issues, but personally seeing the actions of two different reps. told me a lot. Also, the length of time any particular rep has been working for your agency (or within the adoption business) may also be important. Your best bet is to ask other adoptive families.
On a side note for any familiy out there - don’t be afraid to write a letter to or contact your agency after your trip is over if you feel there are ways that they can improve their service in China (or at home for that matter). My first adoption trip was wonderful except for a couple of things. After I got home, I wrote them a letter thanking them, but also letting them know where I thought a couple of procedures could have been improved. I may be kidding myself, but I do believe that my letter did make them look at their procedures or perhaps at a minimum it gave them confirmation from a client that certain procedures within the adoptions needed refinement. All I know is, from questioning other parents using the same agency, the procedures I had written about had changed within a couple of months. I also know, that I had no complaints the second time I adopted.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
As heartbreaking a story as I ever need to hear!! This is one of those things no one really likes to read - and judging by the number of people who posted their sincere concern for their OWN adoption and the effect that telling one’s own truth might have on future adoption is it any wonder why people are reluctant to come forward? I know plenty of people who have had a really hard time - but their blogs are all hunky-dorey. If I didn’t know them in real life I would never know the actual variety of issues that children can face after adoption. People need to read all this and more BEFORE they sign with an agency and then question that agency.. slick brochures and hi-tech dvds are all well and good - but where are they when push comes to shove? And - why wouldn’t a ‘good’ agency want to say… this has happened and this is how we tried to fix it!
It is great to hear all the happily ever afters.. really, I am one myself - but I was prepared not to be just in case. We had about 45 minutes between getting our baby and signing on to be her forever parents. Truth be told - I went with my gut - for good or bad. She was 11 months old and couldn’t sit, roll or play. BUT - she was healthy and I knew enough of what to look for that I was not terribly concerned about her obvious delays. I was lucky - no more no less. It is necessary for us to share the good and the bad - or why else are we here? No one learns from the happy stories…
Missy
Mom to the Empress Fussy Pants and her eventual sib!
April 25th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Thank you RQ -
We recently disrupted while in China. As second time adoptive parents we thought we were prepared for about anything. Disruption was a word we were just vaguely familiar with. Never in a million years thought it would happen to us.
It did. We were lucky to have a pediatrician traveling with our group. We were lucky to be in GZ the whole time. Lucky to have an International Clinic there. Lucky to have an agency that supported us (even if not from the start) and lucky to have a wonderful guide who got on board sooner rather than later. In the end, the only opinions that mattered to the CCAA were those of the Chinese Neurologist and Chinese Pediatrician. We got four reports of significant cognitive delays. What this translated to was a 14 month old functioning at less than 3 months cognitively.
The referral in no way gave us an indication (not even a hint) of these issues.
In the end, we did get another referral. We are forever grateful to those who made that happen for us. We were traveling with our 4.5 yo and it was devasting.
We did work with http://www.lovewithoutboundaries.com and they contacted the CCAA and the orphanage to get the baby on a SN waiting list.
Thanks again for bringing this topic to light. Just having families know that disruption happens and in the end it is a very personal decision and one no one can truly understand unless they have experienced it firsthand.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
RQ, thank you for posting information in a way that is informative and not judgemental. I wish that those who have faced less than ideal conditions could more easily post their experiences to help educate and inform people so that they don’t think if their child is not perfect something is so wrong that they will not adopt, or feel that they have to when perhaps they should not….either way on many groups there is judgement and condemnation for these families and that is something that I am glad to NOT see here. Thank you and I hope that we don’t ever have to fact that situation, nor anyone else……
April 25th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
RQ,
I want to add my thanks to you for sharing this information and your personal story. I think it is so important that people know that they may get a child that is sick, malnourished, delayed or seems autistic, but with loving care will open up and be a great addition to their family. It is also good to have the information about waiting to sign if you sense there is too great of a problem and I am so glad you stressed following up to make sure the child from a disruption is being cared for. We and your children are so fortunate to have your wisdom and dedication.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Hi RQ,
I loved this comment:
“There are obviously some incredible facilitators out there, or maybe I should say incredible human beings who are working as facilitators. ”
But, my main reason for commenting today is to congratulate you and your family! I think that children bring so much joy to a family, and it sounds like your family is bringing so much joy to this beautiful girl. I have no doubt that with the love and attention that she is receiving, she will thrive. Wishing you all the best.
April 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
What is amazing is that I went to China to adopt a SN child. She is average in weight and slightly above average in height on the American charts. She is probably healthier than my bio kids. She doesn’t even have the SN we were expecting. She came from a very poor province, but she was very well cared for. She was 2 and had no problem adjusting. She is our joy. If we had had a problem, I believe our guide would have moved heaven and earth to help us and our daughter. She was superb. We are still in contact with her and we consider her a dear friend.
April 25th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
My daughter was handed to me January 28th of this year. She was 13 months old, weighed almost 12 pounds and swam in the 3 month clothing I thought enough to bring along. She had only laid in a crib. No muscle tone, no thought of raising her head and I was scared. But, since this was my second adoption I knew how quickly these little ones perk up.
Now at 15 months, she’s 15.5 pounds and still wears 3-6 month clothing. She’s received therapy from a PT and an OT on a weekly basis. She now starting to crawl and cruise. She went from a 4 month old developmentally to a 10 month old in about 2 months!! Both of her therapists believe she’ll be walking by the start of summer.
You just need to be prepared and educated about these delays…..
April 25th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
As a new MOM to a terrific 20 month old… I have to say that I was NOT prepared for what so many have experienced….sadly. I can truthfully say that I was living in the world of “it’s meant to be, our DD’s referral pics are wonderful, nothing could possibly be/go wrong”…luckily for us nothing did…
But, I guess I’m chiming in to say that I wish I would’ve seen postings like this one prior to our travel…although scary and unpleasant…it is the REAL world. In reflection, I was in a fairlytale world and not prepared emotionally or otherwise for things to go in another direction.
Thanks again RQ for taking on an unpleasant and difficult subject and sharing your own experiences for the benefit of the RQ community!!!!!
And a quick comment on the facilitator’s role, ours was AMAZING! I have said many times since our return, that we did not know how great our agency was - until we were in China. One of the families in our group woke up in the middle of the night (I think our 2nd night w/our DD’s) to a very high fever and terrified baby. The family phoned our facilitator, she met them at the elevator in 5 mins., rushed them to the hospital where the baby was seen almost immediately, treated with medication and they were back at the hotel in 1 hour… Fortunately, this was an infection and nothing serious, but when you are in a foreign country, where you don’t speak the language, don’t even know where the hospital is….having a facilitator take charge is paramount.
Lastly, I would not have even known about this happening had the family not shared their experience w/us…our facilitator did not share the story. Our facilitator was so kind, considerate, prompt, efficient, concerned and genuinely CARED about the children!!!! I truly believe that she would’ve advocated for the families in our group had that been necessary…
April 25th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Thanks RQ for making this info more available. Our daughter was very healthy when we adopted her, physically and psychologically, except for the to-be-expected gross motor delays. But a family in our group encountered very serious previously undiagnosed problems. Our facilitators, agency, and the CCAA were great with them and thoroughly supportive. They were referred another baby immediately. I had never heard of anything like this before. I had heard plenty about horrible malnourishment, delays, attachment disorders, trauma, etc. but not a huge and permanent medical problem that had somehow gone untreated and unreported. I was a little shaken that my agency, that I think the world of, had not prepared us better in advance, to the extent one can be prepared. I know better now… but as we get ready for adoption #2 (with an LID of 12/15/05) my main remaining concern is with how to handle things with dd #1. Especially because of her having been adopted, I think if there were some problem and we either didn’t come home with a child at all or came home with one different than the one originally referred this could be really traumatic. I worry about this a lot.
RQ I am glad your daughter is safely home with you!
April 25th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
frannysmom - I worried about our older daughter, too.
We didn’t call our child by her American name once she was referred, we only used her Chinese name. We were clear with our daughter that she wasn’t [American name] yet because we had not adopted her yet. We were very clear with her that until we had adopted her, she was not her little sister yet.
I know it doesn’t happen very often, but I felt I needed to make that distinction to help her deal with things if there was a problem.
April 25th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Thank you RQ and thank you to all the others for sharing these difficult and very personal posts. I have learnt so much and I really appreciate you all sharing.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Thanks RQ for sharing your story. I leave in a few weeks to pick up my daughter and it is very helpful to know about the different scenarios and hear the “not so rosy” part. I’m curious with what you know now, can you see any indication of her condition in her referral photos? My daughter has so many clothes on in her pictures I can’t tell how big she is. Her weight seems good but then again if she was weighed in all of those clothes then it really doesn’t give me a good idea of her size.
I’m glad to hear your girl is bouncing back. And of course she is a linguistic genius. She takes after her mom!!!!!
April 26th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Thank you so much for talking about this subject and providing wonderful info regarding this topic it is a job our agencies should be doing at the least. I am preparing myself and my husband as best as possible, thanks you again.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Hey RQ… thanks again for posting about this awful and “taboo” subject. It sounds like people (including myself) have really learned a great deal about the different processes in each province, the great importance of a competent guide, and the agencies roles, etc.
I think it is important for the CCAA to recognize that *perhaps* they should consider a standard in paperwork and harmonious period timeframes throughout China. ( Am I not walking on eggshells enough suggesting this? ) Why not standardize all of the processes and paperwork? This would also eliminate the dependence on your guide, in case you get stuck with a DICK like I did. Adoption is already enough of a crap shoot for us PAP’s. Perhaps they should help make it less of one—-in at least this one respect.
I also have gotten about 100+ emails from people who have disrupted in China due to undisclosed health conditions at referral. Therefore, I believe that this happens much more than we *are told* by the agencies. When I was in China, I was told it never had happened before, which made me feel so, so awful.
On that note, I’d also like to see the stats on the # of kids coming home from China in the last 2-3 years who have been diagnosed with a PDD or RAD. I have received dozens of emails regarding this as well. How many times are we told “the kids catch up”. Well, do they have stats on that? (I’m not saying there is any control over a later RAD diagnoses by China or the agencies, but I think it is very, very important info, again, to make informed decisions about where to adopt from). RAD or PTSD (from abuse) *can be* horrid. I got an email from a therapist who told of a child diagnosed with RAD, adopted at 14 months, who mutilated and killed a rabbit at THREE among other things. I don’t know if this child was from China or not.
Maybe I’m just a party pooper, (I’ll take that label), but I cannot imagine for the life of me, what harm *complete disclosure* from agencies or the CCAA would cause.
I believe it is time to make the agencies accountable for the good and bad. I, for one, would like to see stats on the number of disruptions in country and the number of referrals to the families post-disruption, along with the *known* number of kids diagnosed once home with RAD or other serious developmental issues.
I also agree that many of the brochures and DVD’s, etc., are very misleading. Some are down and out lies.This should stop. We, as AP’s should demand that agencies are held accountable for misleading information.
I remember in the beginning of both of our adoptions being so. bloody. scared. of being rejected, or being referred a sick kid (somehow intentionally) if I spoke out or “rippled the waters”, and I know many, many of you expressed the same fears. Unbased, of course, but many of us are very fearful that speaking up will somehow cause all adoptions to stop, or piss off the CCAA, etc.
That is one of the reasons many of us keep quiet.
I also believe (and know) that many agencies use this fear to “silence” the community. They tell you not to read boards, (RQ for one) and not to listen to any dissent.
Hmmm. I for one, think this is a big problem. Are we so stupid as PAP’s that we can’t make our own decisions and form our own opinions? PLEASE.
It’s time we turn the tables, and take control of the pre-travel process, instead of the agencies who are profiting from our money and our ignorance (at times). I’m not saying all agencies are like this… I LOVED my Guat agency. They were straight-forward and really out for the children. You could see it in everything they did…however, we *all* know, that it isn’t all red threads and “miracles”.
And maybe that is where the State Dept/US govt. steps in. They have been so helpful to me and my family upon our return.
I’m so glad people are talking about this. I can’t tell you how happy this makes me. I could care less what people think of my decision. Just knowing that (you and I) have perhaps armed PAPs with info to possibly prevent what happened to me happening to them is worth every crappy comment I’ve gotten.
One other thing… many people have brought up the idea of a “gut feeling” or “sense” when you think something is wrong with your child. I couldn’t agree more. As a second time adoptive mom, too, I was prepared for the normal delays… and had to rely on my gut to tell me… that combined with a doctor’s confirmation… well, you know the story. I think your gut is an ever important guide. Listen to it….
And as far as M., as many have asked me via email (as I closed down comments). I don’t know. Sadly. I begged the CCAA to list her as SN, they told *me* no, as you all know. Now how much *my agency* went to bat for her… I have no idea. I hope they did with every grain of my being.
Sorry this is so long… again, I hijacked your blog. Sorry!
Thanks again, Jen
April 26th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Our experience was similar to catbertie’s and I wanted to follow up with something mentioned in that post. Our first DD was barely 12 lbs at 10 mos old. The 12-month clothing we brought was out of the question, the 6-9 month clothing was still huge, and the 3-month clothing came closer. When we got home, I bought preemie clothing and that fit just right. She was malnourished (as confirmed at her visa medical exam) and couldn’t hold up her head, use a pincer grasp, or roll over. Lucky for us, we were rookie parents and had no idea that we should be concerned about all this! I wrote home about it and my mom wrote back, “Um…maybe you should have a doctor take a closer look?” Well by then it was too late, we were leaving the next morning with her. She was very alert and babbling during the whole trip, so we weren’t too worried about her.
We got home, waited a month then had her evaluated through our state’s early intervention program. She required physical, occupational, and developmental therapies for 9 months. We came home on March 1, and she took her first steps on the 4th of July at 15 mos. She learned how to sign, and started signing/speaking 3-word sentences at 14 months. The therapists were WONDERFUL and I’m so thankful for that experience–they showed us how to help her, and the therapies felt more like a fun playdate than work.
Fast-forward to today, she is 6 years old and scored the highest of 77 kids on the kindergarten entrance exam last fall. She is consistently the highest scoring reading and math student in all 3 kindergarten classes (the teachers tell me all this because they know she had a different start than the other kids and they secretly marvel at her). She was selected with a handful of other students for our governor’s reading program. She was named Spotlight Dancer for the month of March at her dance studio. She just brought home a gymnastics class award.
All this to say, we have an amazing daughter, and we owe so much to those EI therapists–there are certainly sad adoption stories, but for so many babies, their delays can be conquered with therapies. We grew very close to her therapists and still regularly send pictures and letters.
By the way, nowadays it seems like 1) I can’t get her to quit dancing/running/jumping long enough to listen to me and 2) she is a real motor mouth and won’t be quiet long enough to listen to me!
April 26th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
thanks so much for sharing your happy and not so happy stories. the information is invaluable. i think now that i will not start a blog, or just open it up to immediate family only until i feel comfortable otherwise. any thoughts.
julie
10/27
April 26th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
RQ -
Awesome post, covering so many aspects of this awkward, difficult and painful subject. Well done!!
Alyson
DOR 4/9/07