SN Pilot Program
We are starting to get some details about the new SN pilot program.
Two agencies are involved now, it is hoped that eight agencies will be participating by the end of the year.
An agency will have access to the SN children from one particular SWI. This will help agencies form travel groups. It will also make it easier to find a particular child’s file. I’m also guessing that there will be incentive for an agency to do more to assist that particular orphanage with things like cleft bottles and other special equipment needed to help certain special needs.
Early information says that families will be able to pursue two SN adoptions at the same time under the pilot program. Great news for some families!
And now, for what I’m not seeing yet but still hope to see as they increase the scope of the pilot program.
I had hoped that the CCAA would issue some guidelines about how families are chosen for a particular child. Too many agencies use the SN lists as a recruiting tool to get more clients. They rarely pick someone who is already a client, meaning they get a new client for almost every child on their SN list. I’d like to see that stop.
Families should be chosen based on special needs they are comfortable with and not made to compete for particular children. I’d like to see the CCAA give the agencies some guidance about the best ways to manage their lists and choose families so the competitions stop. It’s not right to have over 100 families take one child’s medical information to doctors and spend the time and money (sometimes with their social worker helping) to write up a complex dissertation on why they are the best family for this child. It’s not fair to the child to have that many people see their information, and it’s not fair to the families who put their hearts into the child they are hoping to be chosen for.
Agencies also have various guidelines for who can apply for a waiting child. One agency says you cannot switch to the WC program after you’ve been LID for six months, other agencies allow people to switch much farther into the process.
I think that more people need to understand from the very beginning that if your intention is to find a waiting child that you should not sign up with an agency until you have found the child. Figure out which agencies you are willing to work with and then do whatever you need to do to be able to view their Waiting Children when they first come out. And then begin paperchasing on your own. Let your social worker know you’ll need a homestudy ASAP so you can apply for your I-171H, and that it will need to be re-written once you sign up with an agency in order to meet their guidelines. There are some risks with this approach as you may need to redo some paperwork if it takes more than a year to find your child on the lists, but it seems to me to be riskier to sign up with one agency and be limited to only the children available to that agency.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Our agency allows us to switch to SN, however as we understand it they first give the Waiting Child lists to everyone from the state that they are located in, then to the additional four states where they are licensed as social workers and then open it up to everyone else that they are working with. Is that typical?
June 14th, 2007 at 10:35 am
I have heard of one agency who does this - allows people in a few states first choice and then opens it up to other states.
I only know of one agency doing that, so I don’t think it’s typical.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Is there a difference between SN and WC? I would like to someday (after I make it through my first adoption!) adopt an older child, but a NSN older child. Is that a waiting child? Or are SN and WC interchangeable?
wBw
June 14th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Most people seem to define it as:
SN - any child not in the NSN program. This includes children over 6 with no special needs, as well as children of any age with a special need.
WC - SN children who are assigned to agencies to match with parents. Some agencies have parents fill out a form stating which SN they are comfortable with and then the agencies matches parent and child. Other agencies publish lists and pictures and have parents compete for the children.
There is also a program where families can let the CCAA know which SN’s they are comfortable with and the CCAA does the matching.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:52 am
RQ,
You make some very good points. There are some advantages to the flip side of the coin as well. We were DTC NSN, then changed to SN before we actually got our LID. So, while we did not shop around for a SN agency, we did end up with an agency that I think does SN’s referrals well. I realize that there is a huge difference in the way agencies handld SN’s, and I feel pretty fortunate to have lucked into ours.
All that background to say that if you find an agency that you trust, and that has a good size number of SN referrals every year, and you are not set on picking THE child for you, then what we did would also work. We felt like under a NSN adoption you did not get the chance to handpick a child, so a SN did not neccessarily need to be the same way. That being said, we also were very honest about what SN’s we’d accept.
Our agency lets you check off what needs, age, gender you would accept. When it receives a batch of SN files, it then matches those with families - for reviewal of the file. All things being equal, a family that has been on the list longer gets first pass at the file. Each file is reviewed by only one family at a time. If they pass, then the child’s file moves down the list, and the family that passed is not penalized. Any files not matched on this round are then emailed (a synopsis) to the remaining unmatched families. Again, if a family is interested, they are the only ones that can view the file. Our agency has a 10 day rule about tying up a file while trying to decide, so that one family cannot hold a child in limbo indefinitely. If a child is not matched after this, then they are released to the website for wider dissemination.
We did not feel drawn to a specific SN, so this worked well for us. We passed on 2 children who generically had needs that we would consider, but who’s specifics were more than our family could do. Those 2 children were matched with families, and one is already home.
If you feel the need to be very specific about age/gender/SN, this may not work for you. Or, if you want AYAP, minor needs, female (this seems to be a popular request), you may wait 6-12 months while your family makes it way to the top of the list.
Just wanted to shed light on another way to go about it.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:59 am
You touched on something I am concerned about. We have applied for a WC from the list at our agency and were not selected. We are currently Logged in NSN, but found a child we felt would be great for us on the WC list. Not being chosen is fine, I must believe that they matched the child to a great family. But what is to keep the agency from always choosing “new” applicants, rather than thier existing clients…there is a definite financial incentive to matching children with new clients and bringing in new fees. I try not to dwell on this and try to have faith in the goodness in people, but with a China only agency and the reality that their applications must have decreased after May 1, I can’t say I haven’t had suspisions? Anyone’ s thoughts??
June 14th, 2007 at 11:05 am
You touched on a issue I have been concerned about. We are currently clients of a China only agency, and are logged in NSN. We found a WC on thier list that seemed just right for us and applied. The application was quite heart wrenching and in the end we were not chosen, which is fine, I have to believe they chose another great family. But I am nagged by the thought that there is a financial incentive for these matches to be made to families not already their clients (hence new fees) What is to keep that from being the rule? Especially in a China only agency where new applicants must be down since May 1. Is there anyway to check on those kinds of statistics? Anyone else that paranoid?
June 14th, 2007 at 11:12 am
lojeslj - I believe that all agencies should handle their lists similar to the way your agency does.
This protects the privacy of the child since only one or maybe two families will see their information, and it keeps families from having to spend money and time “competing” for children.
There are families out there who have “competed” for more than four or five children without being chosen, at hundreds of dollars per child to get an adoption doctor to look through the medical information. I know it’s not supposed to be about the money, but for agencies who require that you talk to a doctor before submitting your intentions for that child, it can get expensive.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:13 am
In the Netherlands agencies match parent and child. Parents are required to think things through thoroughly and tell the agency what special needs they put in their dossier. Paperchase is always done before matching and most people have a LID already. I must say I don’t feel comfortable with the lists and pictures in the USA. Mostly because of the many people that get to see the child’s information. In my opinion this is not fair to the child.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:14 am
So sorry for the double post, didn’t seem to take the first time…it’s my first time!
I also wished all agencies worked like lojeslj, it seems much more fair.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Our small multi-country agency places almost all of their SN children with pre-qualified families before any info is placed on the internet. I think the only time it’s come down to picking one family over another is when 1 family required several waivers and it was unlikely they would receive PA.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Hello Everyone! This is my first post, though I’ve been lurking around for about six months. My husband and I are only just nearing the end of our paperchase now. We have three sons and I’ve been waiting to get to this point for almost two decades!! Three more years to wait? Should be a cake walk for me!! NOT! :)
RQ, I want to thank you for this site and especially today’s post. I had been completely confused about the SN program and like you, couldn’t understand why so many families would have to spend time and money at physician’s offices getting medical advice about the same child! When I inquired about it, I got the feeling that I was the only one who thought this way.
Our agency is one that lists the SN children and has people “compete” for them, so to speak, which is mainly why we will probably remain NSN. Now I see that there are some agencies out there that have found a saner way of handling their SN referrals, at least in my opinion. I’m glad to learn about the new SN pilot program. I hope it’s a great success. Thanks again for posting this information.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:40 am
We adopted our son through the WC program. Our agency matched us with him through a process similar to the one that lojeslj’s agency used. It took so much stress out of the process - we were the only ones reviewing his file. Waiting for the CCAA to say yes is stressful enough. It was so nice not to have the added stress of competing with other families! And getting that package with his pictures and medicals - we knew when we oped it that if it was a go on our end, we were very likely looking at our future son!
June 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am
Not sure how you get hooked up with a SW without being involved with an agency? Both of our agencies required so much initial documentation (fingerprints, medicals, etc.) before we were assigned a SW. How does this get done - can you find a SW in the yellow pages??
June 14th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Yes, you can find a social worker in the yellow pages.
You can also contact your local FCC group and ask them who they used and get input from them about social workers who have experience putting together a home study for China.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:53 am
RQ,
I posted regarding our agency that insists that the CCAA requires that a third of their SN placements must be with families in states where they are the licensed social worker. Do I understand correctly that this is not a CCAA rule for all agencies?
Not only does this agency give first access to clients in those states that they are licensed in, but they also are one of the agencies with a system that requires the families to “compete”. We are not in one of the licensed states. What a mess.
Also, I’m in a chat group for our LID date and am shocked to discover parents celebrating their travel arragnements for SN children. Our LID date is in 2007 - so they have really jumped the que.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
I believe my agency is one of those participating in this new SN program. They are working with only one SWI and have received around 25 files (although they are still waiting on medicals). It’s taken awhile to get all of the approvals signed off on by China to move ahead with this new program. Our agency does allow you to switch from NSN to SN regardless of time logged in. They currently only work with existing families to match to their SN children (which is really great for us) and based on a list of SN issues we would accept, they match us to a child - and do not make us compete. Because they know their familes so well (and they are a small agency) they are able to match families to children easier (I think).
I hope this new program flourishes and that more children are able to find loving homes.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
lojeslj-
We may be with the same teeny, China-only agency? The director of our agency does the same thing — matches their SN families with WC files herself. They will only release very minimal info to the public — never any photos — and will speak to PAPs individually to release referral info on the kids. This was one of the reasons I chose this agency — I really don’t think I could handle “competing” for a child — the whole process is mentally draining enough! My agency has been receiving anywhere between 6 and 10 referrals of WC’s per quarter, but have recently received a batch of 10 WC’s after only 60 days — a huge speed up. We were 45th in line as of our LID in March 07, we have since moved to 14th! So, we could be looking at being matched before year’s end! Whoohoo!
FinallyChina
June 14th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
I’m shocked to learn that this pilot program will allow for 2 SN children to be adopted at the same time. That point is very, very interesting.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Hi RQ..thanks for sharing this with us. My major concern with the WC/SN program has always been the issue of privacy of the child. This is why I have always thought it was better for the agency to match the child with the family or the CCAA matching the family with the child, rather than the parent sifting through many files of SN children lists. I also think it would be better for the CCAA to release their guidelines to the agencies about how SN children are matched with families…
June 14th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Our agency handles SN the same way as lojeslj. They have also had the SN dept taken over by a phenomenal lady who was our former family coordinator. I will definitely use them again.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
PS…I realized I may not have been very clear in my previous posting…I am very supportive of WC and SN referrals…and I obviously support that a clear system is in place to support the placement of children with families…I was simply trying to reaffirm that I agree with RQ that it is not right for over 100 families to be ‘competing’ for a child…and the privacy of the child was one of main reasons (of course there are so many more)…so sorry if I was not clear.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
My large China only agency does SN’s like Lojeslj’s does. You can switch from SN to NSN and NSN to SN if you would like. You are matched according to what special needs you check off that your family is comfortable with, either yes, no or maybe. You are then matched in order that your information came into the agency AND the needs you check off.
My concern is that some people NOT A LOT but a few are trying to use the special needs route as a way to get around the wait. They only check off female, 0-12 months with a minor birthmark and then are angry when they do not get a quick match. Of course I think they should be honest about what their family can handle, but they need to be realistic that when you limit your choices, it is going to take longer.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Suzielei — I don’t think your double-post was an accident, but instead you were channeling our thoughts. We recently applied for a girl on our agencies waiting child list that touched our hearts. While we (in our completely unbiased opinion…grin) felt that she would be a perfect fit with us, our agency apparently did not share that opinion. While we are okay with that as long as she finds a loving home, we also couldn’t help but wonder if there is a bias towards new applicants. That may be just the disappointment talking, but it is a feeling that we have shared with each other.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Hi,
Thank goodness our agency (mid-size multi-country, but with the China program in a separate location so that it seems like small China-only!) is one that matches the child to the parents, and only gives the file to one set of parents at a time. I agree with everyone else that the other system is just way too stressful. While I have sometimes been frustrated that our agency does not have a large WC program, the advantage of not having to compete far outweighed this inconvenience!
For our first adoption we actually let CCAA match us after submitting the SNs we were comfortable with…something our agency calls “non-preidentified” SN referral…and that worked very well for us also!
I am going to a meeting one of the 2 pilot agencies is having on June 22nd and hope to learn much more about the new program! It sounds like a great way to get a grip on the WC/SN program, and I agree that the CCAA should issue guidelines so that all agencies are handling WC/SN referrals the same way!
:-)
Steph
June 14th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
I did not read all the posts so someone may have covered this already. But I wanted to tell how our agency handles their WC lists, and it is one of the reasons we went with our agency. As soon as you are signed with them (which all that takes is a relatively small fee and an application) and you let them know that you are interested in adopting a waiting child they put you on their list. As they receive lists they go to the next families on their lists and see if the SN the families are comfortable with and the SN that the children they have match up. They go down their list until they have matched all the waiting children. IF they go through all their families they will then go to the list of families they have that are not signed with them. If they still don’t find a match then they list the child (just name and special need) on their website. They only send one file to one family at a time and if that family does not accept the child then they will move to the next family on their list that feel scomfortable with that special need. I don’t like the agency that have a “petition process” for the children. It is too much like domestic adoption, and we have been down that road. Though it went well (eventually) for us, it is not something I want to go through again–having our life scrutinized to see if we are a particular childs family is not for me!!! Before the last list came out we were 25th on the agencies list. They typically get 5-8 kids on their list, so we still have a while. I didn’t think about some agencies choosing parents who weren’t signed with them already so they can get new clients, our agency does not do that, and I can’t believe an agency would actually do that!!! I thought about not signing with a particular agency and just looking for a child on another list, but that is not for me either. It just felt like I was trying to “pick” my child by how they looked or if a particular characteristic struck me, for some people that works, for me it just felt strange, so we have filled out our medical checklist and are simply waiting on our agency to get through the other families in front of us and then we will have our baby. We are in the NSN line too, but chances are our agency will find a WC for us first–hopefully in about a year.
Michelle
June 14th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
anonymouswait,
Adopting 2 SN at once although not real common it has and does happen. Many agencies are afraid to ask therefore many things that they routinely say can’t be done are really we are afraid to try.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Finallychina, we are actually with a a mid-size multi country agency. The staff are great though, and it “feels” small.
They get about 30+ SN referrals every 3-5 mos, but the last year they’ve had a couple 5-10 file surprise batches. They also posted on their weekly update recently that the CCAA asked them to participate in a new program that will help match older children, predominantly with minor needs. Over the last year or so their WC program has really ramped up. I’m sure the NSN wait has something to do with it. I know for us, watching the wait escalate certainly opened a door for discussion about SN’s. We were LID 3-28-06. We got home 6 weeks ago with our son, a 22 month old with bilateral clubfoot. He is a joy, and a huge change after 3 bio dd’s.
There are several families that have requested female, AYAP, minor needs. I am no expert, but I think that has to do with the current NSN wait time. Again, every child deserves a family, but as was mentioned before, this will most likely extend the wait for a referral from the “average” SN wait, if there is such a thing.
As for competing with other families, I just couldn’t do it. And I think it is very suspect that agencies would want you to pay each time you did it. That just doesn’t seem fair on any number of levels.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
I meant to include that our agency is based in Virginia and has clients all over the States, including Hawaii and Alaska, along with at least one military family stationed overseas that I know of. There is certainly no rule about offering referals to those in certain states first.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Oops, they get SN referrals every 3-4 months, not 5.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
sks -
I do not know if it is a CCAA rule or not. I only know that I don’t know of any other agencies with this stipulation. Perhaps they have a licensed SW in all states, or perhaps they just have better ways of getting enough local families that they don’t have to worry about it? I don’t know.
If there are any other agencies out there that want to let me know the facts on this one, I’d appreciate it.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Hey RQ…am a bit confused again….what a surprise.
You first say:
“They rarely pick someone who is already a client, meaning they get a new client for almost every child on their SN list. I’d like to see that stop.”
and then later say:
“I think that more people need to understand from the very beginning that if your intention is to find a waiting child that you should not sign up with an agency until you have found the child.”
Are these two approaches not contradictory? Aren’t you saying from the first part that agencies should be matching SN children with existing clients, but in the second part telling people to not become a client of an agency until you have found a child?
June 14th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
I, too, am surprised about 2 adoptions at once. That seems unfair to everyone else waiting. Plus, I thought the whole point was that each child deserves time to bond, and especially for WC/SN children may need extra attention because of their special need.
Sheesh, this system gets unfairer and unfairer (referring to not being able to switch agencies to go SN anymore). It certainly does seem that the luck of the draw and being in the right place at the right time does a lot. I have in the past not been chosen for a particular WC, and it is a big sting. Now to think that there will be families waiting in line to adopt one child having to wait while someone in front of them adopts two children.
But, on a side note, it seems that CCAA probably wouldn’t have any issues with a concurrent adoption if they allow 2 adoptions in certain circumstances.
June 14th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Amen to that! My agency has the “competing families” method and I just finished Round #1 of having my heart torn apart and stomped on when I didn’t get a match. Furthermore, where once singles were urged to go the SN route since there was no quota/waiting list and less people were choosing SNs, now it would seem like singles are going to be passed over any time a couple is available and interested. So it seems I can’t make progress either way!
June 14th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
windthrow - in a perfect world agencies would choose based on people who are already DTC so that the children could come home the fastest, but with several of the agencies who get pretty big WC lists so often choosing someone not a client first, your best bet would seem to not be a client when you choose.
And I know, I still owe you a PM, haven’t forgotten it, just waiting until I’m not playing catch up with a few other things, first.
June 14th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Thanks RQ…so you are saying that with the reality of the situation right now someone would be better off not being a client but if all the agencies did what you think is the right approach then you might be better off being signed up with an agency. Got it.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Having just done this myself. Let me take a stab at it. Since CCAA will not let you change agencies after LID for a SN child listed at another agency. If you wait until your are LID to look or switch you can only get a SN child from your agencies list
-which if they prefer new clients really limits you
-or they don’t get many children on a list
-or they don’t get a list very often
-or if they are a really big agency and 200++ people are asking to switch to SN
In any of these cases your odds may be better being a free agent to speak and looking at lots of agency lists.
I hope that makes sense.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
RQ, thank you for your thoughts. I hated the idea of competing for a child. It makes the process more of a transaction and less of a delicate family decision.
We were LID before we found our child, but only because we had family experience/history with our agency and wanted to go through them no matter what. We indicated SN from the beginning, but then made the decision to wait to identify a child until after we knew we would make the May 1 deadline, otherwise, we probably would have done our paperchase in a different order… I’m glad it worked out the way it did, though or our son-to-be wouldn’t have found us!
I hope this pilot works out. I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out and how it affects the standards for SN rules and placements.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I was with the large China only agency that started the competition amongst adoptive parents. When we adopted our ds, it wasn’t that way. It was pretty straight forward for us, nobody was petitioning for our ds anyway, and I am
thankful for that now. They informed everyone that NSN wait was going to increase back in 2005, and then all of a sudden their WC program completely changed. I can remember how heartbroken and hurt families were on their yahoo group when they were not chosen. They would often put reassuring messages on the forum, and try and suggest that people look beyond their dreams of little girls with the smallest SN.
What is ironic, China is suppose to one of the most stable programs, but the people on the International Adoption forum I belong to are bringing their Guatemalan babies home so much quicker even with all the up in the air problems with the Hague and corrupt lawyers. Families are still bringing babies home from Vietnam inspite of rumored threats of closing down, instability etc.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
As a family who planned a SN adoption from the beginning, I am glad to have worked with an agency who allowed us to go ahead and submit our dossier as no child was available when our dossier was complete. It was six months before we were matched with a child (like many others, our agency has you fill out paperwork with the SNs you are comfortable with and matches you with the child). Since this was our second adoption, I wanted to go ahead and get our dossier together knowing we had a lot going on in the months ahead. Once you decide to adopt, you just wish to have the paperchase over- again, I’m happy my agency allows you submit you dossier even if no child is available on their WC lists.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
catbertie, I am not advocating that people not get started paperchasing - you can complete most of your dossier while searching for a child, and I think you should, as you want to be as close to DTC as possible when you find your child so they will have to wait the least amount possible.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
I would like to see a change in the SN program too.There needs to be a way for ALL agencies to have access to all the waiting children, not just the ones lucky enough to make it to a larger agency. I do advocating for a very small agency. Right now I have two adorable little CL/CP boys (10 months and 2 yrs) that are still waiting. If they had been on a larger agencies SN list they would have had a family by now. With the new rule of not being able to switch agencies or have agencies cooperate together, i’m having a hard time finding families for these two precious boys. If anyone is interested in one of these little boys you can contact me at thecappellos @ comcast . net
June 14th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
I like the way my mid-sized multi-country agany does SN. When they get a new batch of files (usually 6 every 3-4 months) they send out an e-mail to all current clients who have expressed interest in SN that the new files can be seen online with a special passward for a set period of time (usually a few days). At this point all they list is the picture, SN and age of the child. If someing is interested in looking at the full file, they deterimine who has been logged in the longest. If that person doesn’t choose to move forward with that child, they move to the next LID on the list. If no interest is expressed on a child from within the agency, they then open the viewing up to the larger community. While I have expressed interest a few times for children on the lists, the person ahead of me in line was picked and has since moved forward with these girls. I wished it was me, but felt the process made sense and was ethical and fair.
June 14th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Sheryl - this is why I am suggesting that families not choose an agency until they have chosen a child. I hear of smaller agencies who have this exact problem frequently, where the people who show an interest are already logged in with another agency and thus can not adopt children available that they are interested in.
June 14th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Some of this sounds so crazy to me…competing for a child? Granted I’m with a small multi-country agency-only 4 couples in December 05 going to China, but they send out the information on SN children when they receive it and if you want to see a file you request it. Only one person can look at the file at a time…maybe a problem if more than one person requests at the same time, but really only one family should be able to look at the file at a time then they either accept or send the file back.
June 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
There are agencies that scan the file in and then send that scan to any parent who requests it. Other agencies have them up on the web so anyone with the password to the waiting children have access to download any and all of the children’s files.
June 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Our large China-only agency takes a medical needs checklist from PAPs, and then refers their children roughly in the order checklists were turned in. One family reviews a file at a time, and the child is only placed on the website if there is no family with a matching checklist on file available.
They have a large WC program, and have started “screening” for families that only want a waiting child because they can’t stomach the NSN wait.
The agency’s main concern, and rightly so, is that families will commit to adopt a child, hoping for or assuming that the child’s need will be near the minor end of the scale. If the family gets to China and discovers that it’s not as minor as they hoped…well, the agency wishes to avoid the potential consequences to this.
For example, a family in the past may have marked “Cleft lip only” on their checklist, and would refuse a child with palate involvement also. The problem with this is that not all medical files are complete, and occasionally there are additional issues not reported in the file.
Our agency has recently required all 200+ families with a medical checklist on file to fill out a new one - one in which the minor needs such as birthmarks, scars, extra fingers, anemia, eczema, ptosis, etc., are at the bottom of the checklist, with the requirement that a more major need must also be checked in order to participate in the WC program. “Cleft-lip only” is no longer an option on the checklist.
The social worker must sign the new checklist before the family returns it to the agency.
The purpose here is to ensure that all families given a WC referral are truly prepared to parent a child with a special need - because many of the minor needs occur with a more major need, some undiagnosed in China.
The reality is that there are many more parents wishing to adopt baby girls, AYAP, with minor needs than there are children available - many, many more. Our agency feels that it is essential that every SN child be placed with a family committed to adopting a child with an SN - not because of the shorter wait, but because they truly feel capable of parenting a medical needs child.
Alyssa
June 14th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I am aware of one agency that places the entire list of children on their website, with all medical information and pictures available to PAPs with a password. You do not have to be a client to obtain a password.
They accept petitions for each child for a few weeks and then make a decision. I am aware of one child on a previous list that received over 50 petitions.
The kicker is that there is a $250, NON-REFUNDABLE fee to petition for a child.
RQ talked about padding their pockets…the math for a list of 20 kids could go something like this:
Let’s say 10 children are under 2, with commonly requested SNs such as Hep B+, heart issues, and CL/CP. If there are an average of 8 petitions per child (which I think is conservative, as some children will receive 20+), then this agency has just rec’d $20,000, free and clear. And my guess would be that this number is very conservative - they may actually receive two or three times this amount.
Quite lucrative, wouldn’t you say?
Alyssa
June 14th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I have to chime in here. We are with an agency in which hundereds of families often compete (petition) for the same SN children. They also have a new rule that families in the agency’s state (or 2-3 other states that they are licensed to do home studies in) will get to review the SN files before other exisitng clients. I have long believed that new clients were chosen over existing clients for SN children. It just seems logical - why would they chose a family already LID with them (and therefore already commited to the agency) when they can acquire new clients by mathcing them with a SN child.
If I had known this earlier, I would have done things so much differently. I totally agree with Rumor Queen that families should not sign up with an agency until they have found their child. It can be heart-breaking to believe you will be matched with a child, only to be disappointed.
June 14th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
RQ -
I am sorry for your friend’s experience with a competition based SN program. That is truly awful! BUT of course that isn’t the way the competing is supposed to work. Theoretically agencies who have families compete for a child are supposed to be looking for the best family for that specific child and that child’s SN - the opposite of what happened with your friend. I guess I just don’t think it makes more sense from the child’s perspective to make the process more random by relying on more first come - first served matching techniques.
Of course I am biased because I am looking for a specific child. If she winds up at an agency that won’t talk to me because I didn’t already pay their application fee, we are out of luck.
June 14th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I agree that some changes need to be made. I’m with a medium sized almost china only that does the competition/petition process and has the “no switching nsn to sn if over 6 mos lid”
Each time the petition process ends there are several hearbreaking and/or angry posts to the agency group –and those are just the people who post. The petitioning process requires a real investment emotionally and often financially. There are some families who have petitioned for 3 or 4 “popular” children and are turned down for all. Some families have to go through this petitioning for multiple children through 2 or 3 lists before finally being chosen.
I have noticed that it tends to be many new client families who are chosen and it does seem completely unfair and not in the best interests of bringing children home as soon as possible to get care they obviously need.
The agency’s 6 month rule is also troublesome, arbitrary and illogical. I really wish there was a standard way that agencies were required to handle the wc lists that would be more fair to families and the children waiting for homes and treatment.
June 14th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
We are using a large China only agency. We applied for a toddler on the waiting child list, along with many families. It did feel like a competition. We live about 2 miles from the #3 children’s hospital in the US. We had first hand experience with the special need of the child and were in the review room already. However, we were not chosen. I cannot begin to tell you what a let down it was. I think the part that really bothered me was the impersonal letter sent stating that they made the decision in the “best interest” of the child. Well, I sure hope so! Yet, it did make me feel a bit like chopped liver.
June 14th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Alyssa~ We may be with the same agency.
I understand what you’re saying and I agree with much. Certainly I think that an agency needs to be very careful to screen out families who are ONLY interested in jumping the nsn line. But, the problem is that it ignores a very common situation: family lids nsn –they chose nsn because they didn’t really know any different and had never really given it any thought. Then, because of this long wait they have a chance to learn about sn program and educate themselves to the process and realize that maybe sn is a viable and attractive program for their family.
Now, they’re not just choosing sn to shorten the wait but because their eyes, hearts and minds have been opened to this option.
I think agencyies need to be very careful when they implement rules that they are actually accomplishing what they set out to do.
June 14th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
rumorslave,
I agree, and hope that agencies with active WC programs would welcome NSN families into the program. I certainly do NOT want to imply that anyone who switches from NSN to SN is doing it solely to “jump the line.”
Many (most?) of the WC program families at our agency started NSN, and as they learned more about SN, they realized that there were several, or many, needs that their family could handle. This is actually what the new checklist is for - to ensure that a family joining the program will be educated and have open eyes, hearts and minds about the SNs they have chosen.
I think I am actually in the small minority of people who started in the SN program - and it was only because my husband and I both had heart defects and knew we wanted a child with a need we understood. Most families start in the NSN program, or log-in and then switch. Our agency actually suggests this - get logged in as NSN and wait for an SN referral that matches the needs you are comfortable with and educated about. You can also revise your checklist as you learn more - for both SNs and age and sex of child.
One reason this agency has chosen to require applicants to be open to more than a just a few minor needs is simply that they have so many families willing to accept major needs that they feel most comfortable placing a child with ANY special need with a family who has demonstrated their commitment and ability to parent a medical needs child.
Many of the minor needs can be an indication of a syndrome or more serious need, and our agency has had a few bad experiences with people who were not willing to accept a child they rec’d in China who had more than a cleft lip or a small birthmark as indicated in their file. Or who have said outright that if they are handed their child with cleft lip only, they will disrupt if the child opens their mouth and there is any indication of problems inside.
The fact is, sometimes the medical files are wrong - some of these SWIs are very poor and cannot afford or do not know to get more medical information on a child before preparing their file. A good example is microtia - a missing ear seems like a small thing, but there are numerous syndromes that can go along with it.
Agencies, good ones anyway, are in the business of finding the best home for a child - not finding children for waiting parents. Any agency worth their salt will have policies and procedures that promote this goal - to find the very best parents who can care for whatever need that child has.
An agency that is in the business of finding children for families has lost sight of their moral obligation to ensure that every child receives what they deserve most - a family who can care for their medical needs as well as their emotional and physical ones.
Alyssa
June 14th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
I can’t believe I’m even thinking this, but I’m sitting here HOPING CCAA comes up with a way to make the SN/WC process fair!!?? I didn’t realize until this section got so much attention, that all the agencies did this different ways. I think that right now, I am very disappointed (and disturbed) that my agency, who I thought was so up-&-up, makes you compete with other families, and gives non-clients equal opportunity to be matched with WC. Just seems like a big financial conflict of interests to consider non clients equally, because if you chose a “non-client” you also get many thousands $$$ you wouldn’t have if you match a child with an existing client. That doesn’t seem right. And it is heartbreaking when you do not get chosen, even if you rationalize that a suitable family was found. Yes, I’m looking for the CCAA to make some ethical demands (who’d have thunk that!)
June 14th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
rumorslave and Alyssa,
I believe I’m also with the same agency.
rumorslave - thank you so much for your comments. It’s like you were reading my mind. We just recently submitted our MCC, but we’ve been logged in since 3/19/07. We didn’t research the WCP prior to submitting our dossier, so we really didn’t know anything about it. It is because of the wait that we started researching the WCP… and I am soooo very glad that we did. We did a bunch of research on the different medical conditions (and even ordered the CD from LWB), and we realized that this was definitely something we want to do. I only wish I had researched it earlier in our process. Our eyes, hearts and minds are more than open to adopting a SN child, and we are eager to see where this journey takes us!
Now I’m wondering if it would really be possible to adopt 2 SN children at once! We were already planning on going back eventually… guess we’ll just have to wait and see (although, my anti-spam word is onesie… hmmm, is that a sign??).
June 14th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Peaches 28, I do believe you have a point. That is what I have to believe- that the best family was found for the child I applied for. Yet, it still stings. I don’t want to be cynical- can’t afford to be really. Yet, it seems that if indeed I had originally applied for a SN child that I would have been deemed qualified. Yet, with the WC program, the criteria is a mystery. In all honesty, my DH and I didn’t think about applying for SN until we met a wonderful couple who had and schooled us in the process- only to find out that the WC program had become increasingly popular and, yes, competitive.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
We identified a WC back in Aug 2005 with a large China only agency that requires a checklist. We chose the WC outright and at that time there really wasn’t a wait. If there wasn’t a child on the current list there was one on the next list due in 2-3 mths. Two years later there are over 200 famlies waiting for a referral through the WC program. The wait is estimated to be 8-9 mths for a referral. One can logically conclude that the majority of these new applications came from those interested in switching to the program from a NSN program due to the wait. Very few of the applicants chose the WC program outright. Most have opened their hearts to WC and this is a good thing but others are only interested in very minor special needs and also only young baby girls. Its a good thing this agency does not allow for competition because there would probably be a lot of bitterness in competing for those popular files. I applaud the agency for taking it another step and asking thier clients to reaffirm thier comittment to the SN program and to have a SW sign off on it. This will effectively weed out those that were primarily in it for a faster referral and help them to provide the families best suited to the needs of the child.
We were free agents this time. We were actually getting ready to submit a new checklist to the agency when we found a little boy that had been waiting on another agency list for 45 days without one person interested. He had two strikes against him. He was a boy and he had a urological condition which apparantly many people are scared off by. In this case what RQ has suggested about beign a free agent helped us be flexible to adopt this little boy. Although my approach was that there were a handful of agencies we had researched and while I had a checklist on file with agency #1 we had planned on also looking at three other agency lists. As much as I hated leaving agency #1 we were willing to make the switch for the right child.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
I’m going to be bold and step out on shelf here about what irritates me most about the WC program. Maybe there is something that can be done to change it. My beef is with all the little boys left waiting on lists that take tons of advocating to find families and then even some get returned to China several times. I find it funny that we often criticize the Chinese for thier abandonment of little girls but yet we do the opposite in the adoption community and clearly have a preference for girls over boys. Now I can certainly understand a family that already has a house full of boys wanting to add a girl to the mix but this is certainly only a small minority. What is the underlying prejudice against boys? Should we all be alllowed to specify gender? What if we just submitted a checklist and when we got a referral we had to be open to either a girl or a boy. Would that be such a bad thing? Its really unfair to the beautiful little boys that sit waiting on these lists.
And how appropraite that my secuity word is Kunming where my boys are from.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
XieXie3,
Like you, we have chosen a boy this time. One whose file had been making the rounds of agencies for over two years - he was 22 months old when his file was first sent to the CCAA, and he will be 4 when we bring him home.
I have several friends who will be bringing their second child from China home soon - boys. BEAUTIFUL, healthy boys. Because they were open to a boy, they will have been blessed with two children from China in less than 18 months. One will be bringing home her second child from China in one year!!!
Congratulations on your new son.
Alyssa
http://declancomeshome.typepad.com/weblog/
June 14th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Xie Xie,
I too think that it is a very good idea to analyze intent of those applying for a waiting child. Applying to shorten the wait could be devastating to the child’s future. So, possibly someone who had the intent of adopting from the SN program might be better prepared emotionally for their child. I do, however, think there are cases where a family is drawn to a particular child on a very deep level after reading about them. I have read testimonials from parents where this was the case. They just felt a connection and then applied.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
hope4baby,
No doubt that many families have been formed becuase they saw a photo and were drawn to a photo or description of a child. Heck thats how we found our newest son. I do think that the photo listings are essential for the harder to place kids. Its sometimes the only way to generate interest in them.
June 15th, 2007 at 12:24 am
I have been reading for a while, and this topic gave me the incentive to post. We adopted a SN boy last June, and we used the large, China-only agency that has the “competetive” matching process (the same as suzielei/2qts4me/and hopeforbaby?). I would NEVER do it that way again. While we were the only ones to apply for our son (and thus were chosen), I was totallly disgusted by the competetive nature of the process. I was even more disgusted by what the agency did later. When the next list came out they had 100+ families apply for the same child, and had many disappointed/disenchanted families (remember the Jen/Chew blog?). So when the next list after that came out, their answer was to not post pictures on their website. They still let any family apply for any child on the list, regardless of whether or not they were already clients. RQ, I never thought about it until I read your post, that the incentive for this may have been to “recruit” new clients. I couldn’t understand why they didn’t make their list available to clients first, like many other agencies do. This would have reduced the number of applicants and helped avoid some of the problems they had with the previous list. I mean, if your application was accepted by the agency initially, you are obviously qualified to adopt from China, right? Surely such a large agency can find a family among that pool of clients that is also qualified to adopt a SN child?! It only makes sense to me to make the list available to current (paying) clients first, and then with all else being equal, give preference to families who are farther along in the process, so that the child can come home sooner. If we adopt from China again, we will go the SN route again, and will definately NOT use the same agency.
June 15th, 2007 at 12:57 am
I’m interested in learning more about the option to allow the CCAA to match you with a SN child. I have never heard of anyone who has actually pursued this route but certainly someone out here has done it, right?
I was under the impression that even if you are LID in the NSN program you can send in a new request/application letter to the CCAA and an updated homestudy indicating you are approved to adopt a SN child and request that the CCAA match you with a SN child. Does anyone know if this can be done? I would think it would be a great opportunity for those who are way down the SN list at their agency.
June 15th, 2007 at 1:11 am
After reading lojeslj other posts, I now know that we are with the same agency.
Keri
June 15th, 2007 at 8:28 am
Yes, SMMARK, we have the same agency. I too was puzzled by the process. Had a friend applying with a large multi-country agency for a WC with the very same special need and was chosen. She was aghast at what we went through.
Congrats on your son, SMMARK and Xie Xie! I am glad something good has come out of this process for your families. It makes me happy to hear that little boys are coming home too. Having two boys myself, I know what a joy it is to raise them!
June 15th, 2007 at 8:59 am
The agencies receiving WC lists that I am aware of in Canada operate in a similar way to lojeslj/NovLID’s( & other’s) agencies.
No competition for children- you get in a line based on when the agency receives your completed dossier and when a new list arrives, they go through down the line of waiting families, matching families and children on the basis of sn/age/sex as stated in your homestudy.
This really is the only fair way to do it, I believe.
June 15th, 2007 at 9:38 am
If SN were first “offered” to existing clients then it seems that those not DTC or LID would be out of luck and would never be able to have an opportunity to adopt a SN child. This would be in direct contradiction, if seems, from what RQ is advocating. I believe the best interest of the child should prevail. While I don’t like “competition” either, I like less the idea of “first come, first served” on a waiting list. That strikes me as favoring the prospective parent’s interests over the child. I just don’t understand the fervor regarding favoring existing clients. For example, according to RQ, one should be looking at multiple agency lists, if possible, before they commit to any agency. Fine - but if agencies don’t consider all potential parents (just not those already DTC or LID) then how is this parent who hasn’t committed to an agency yet able to apply for a child? I can see the advantage of already being with an agency and paperchasing or DTC/LID if the particular SN child requires immediate surgery as a previous poster indicated, but, if RQ’s suggestion is going to work, it seems all agencies must put all prospective parents on the same “playing field” and consider all equally.
P.S. - the already DTC/LID single woman who was “chosen” to be the mom for the SN child 100 people applied for was an expert in the child’s SN as she was an experienced professional in that field- great match!
June 15th, 2007 at 11:01 am
I don’t know…as I read these posts, it seems like there definitely needs to be guidelines, but I’m not sure going by ‘who got in line’ first, is the best way to do it either.
I definitely don’t like it that our agency accepts WC applications from non-clients, but I do like their application. It is very comprehensive and I do believe that it enables them to make decisions based on the best interest of the child. I’m not as concerned about what’s fair to me as I am about who can best parent a particular child.
The application we have to complete requires a lot of forethougt and research. My husband and I are waiting for the next list to come out and in the meantime, we are educating ourselves, as thoroughly as possible, on the different needs, their potential complications, and what the resources are in our area to help us…as well as making a list of people we know that have children with these needs that we can talk to and receive the voices of experience.
I wonder, do the agencies, who do it by whose next in line, require as comprehensive of an application? If so, then maybe that would work, but I think there has to be a balance of both to insure that the child is receiving the best placement possible.
June 15th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Mainly I just want some clarification from the CCAA so the agencies are going by the same guidelines.
And, I think the children need to be protected from so many families seeing their medical information.
I think that as things stand RIGHT NOW you are probably best off being a “free agent” until you pick a child and can then go with that agency. I’m not sure that this is the best or worst way to do it under ideal circumstances, but as things stand right NOW it probably gives a family the best shot at finding a child without restricting themselves to one agencies list.
It has been brought to my attention that both agencies in the pilot program handle their WC list the same way - by using families signed up with their agency first and only going to non-clients for harder to place children that no clients are interested in. And by giving the file to one family at a time and not making families compete for the child.
It is possible the CCAA hasn’t put any guidelines out yet because it approves of the way these agencies handle their lists - with only two agencies that’s just a guess, of course. We’ll have to see how the other agencies operate who are brought into the program before we can be sure.
June 15th, 2007 at 11:20 am
CarolinaBlue- You hit the nail on the head. Balance is key. If all things are equal, maybe the existing client should be chosen in order to get the child home sooner.
June 15th, 2007 at 11:37 am
Personally, I prefer to look at the photographs. Our ds probably would not of been chosen because he was a boy
and he was 4 years old. We were not planning on adopting from China, and we were planning on bringing home a sister for our Haitian Princess. We considered China, and we decided we wanted to go the SN’s route because our dd was so easy going and healthy and we felt we could handle the SN we were considering. I saw his photograph, and BAM! I was inlove. I just knew he was meant to be with us. He has repaired Cleft Lip/Palate. He adjusted beautifully to our family, he went to DH without any problems when he was in China, he walked into our front door when he arrived home as though he had always lived with us. Our dd and him are the best friends, and he is a complete doll! Our dd was also on a WC list with her orphanage. She was healthy, 15 months old, and I also knew she was meant to be with us. She came home at
2 years and 3 months old. We just couldn’t believe another family hadn’st snapped her up. She was more than delicious. For us, anyway, looking at photographs brought a connection between us and our children.
However, I don’t agree with the competitive aspect our agency eventually created. Firstly, if you fill in an application and send it in they have to approve you as a qualified adoptive parent to a SN’s child in the first place. You would have to meet all the new requirements with regards to income health etc. So in actuality, they do not accept you if you do not qualify. The problem is, that most families are looking for a girl, AYAP with minor SN’s.
I was under the impression that they only gave out the information to those families that were already waiting on their files to view the next batch of children not new applications.
June 15th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Shellie -
We are currently LID 4/07 for an SN referral. We started out SN from the get go. The SN we requested is one that we are comfortable with and we are fortunate to live in an area with several wonderful children’s hospitals. Our agency told us anywhere from from four months to 11 months for a referral from LID (our agency is very conservative). We are NOT holding our breath for four months and truly believe they will call when the time is right. Our agency did not guilt us or put pressure on us to choose SN. They are a mid-size/multi-country agency and we are extreamly grateful that we don’t have to compete for a child. Ugh, I regret that any family and child is in that position.
At our agency, when a list of WC is received, those families who are waiting for a referral may also be considered and are in line based on LID/SN/age and gender requested. As I understand it any family with our agency can ask to not be considered for a WC if they prefer to wait for a referral.
Familys who are not current agency clients are only sought if an agency family does not choose a WC.
Luckily our boys keep us busy. Our sons were adopted at ages 8 and 10 from an EE country and are non-stop, true-blue Americans.
Best of Luck,
June 19th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
This is my first post. We are currently LID for NSN but a couple of weeks ago were disappointed by not being chosen for a SN child that we found on our agencies site. We, too, thought that we had found the child that was meant for our family. It is heartbreaking. I poured my heart out about wanting this child, went to see doctors, sought out other parents with the same need, and it wasn’t enough. I don’t know how many times I can handle that kind of dissappointment. This may be a crude way of putting it, but I felt like I had bought a raffle ticket for a child. I was competing against other families for this child. There has to be a better way.