Interim Adoptions
Some troubling news was reported on the APV board. Someone reports that they completed a Vietnam adoption and updated their homestudy with China to show the new child. Once the CCAA received the home study they told the agency that the family must leave the program because they had completed another international adoption.
This confuses me, because agencies have had families update their home studies for a long time, and they report sending the updates to China, and there have been no problems.
I can think of five possible scenarios. I’m not saying any of them are true at this point, just listing all of the possible reasons I can come up with.
- This is the opinion of this CCAA reviewer, and the other reviewers are fine with it.
- The other agencies lied about sending home study updates showing new children to the CCAA.
- The CCAA just changed their mind and this is the way it will be from here on out.
- This is one of those people in the Vietnam program who resents the influx of people from China and they are trying to make it stop. (Again, I’m not saying this is the case, I’m just listing all possibilities I can think of).
- The addition of the child knocked this family out of the program because they no longer met the income requirement.
The first item is possible. It wouldn’t be the first time that one agency can get someone through that another agency cannot, simply because one agency has a reviewer that doesn’t allow that and the other agency has a reviewer that allows it. However, the CCAA occasionally shakes things up and reassigns matchers and reviewers, so it would seem to be dangerous for agencies to bank on having the same reviewer years from now when a family may be submitting an updated home study.
The second one doesn’t seem to be possible because I’m aware of two situations (this year) where the CCAA asked questions about an updated home study that included information about a child adopted after the family was DTC. This tells me that the agencies did submit the updated home study on these families, otherwise the CCAA could not have asked questions about the update. (And, FYI, the questions did not involve the child, but other changes.)
The third one? I don’t know. It’s possible, I suppose, but I have to wonder on what grounds they would do this. I can understand them having a time limit on when babies can enter the family (i.e. nine months or even one year apart), and I can even understand them saying that they don’t want artificial twinning so the referred baby must be either a year older or a year younger than the other baby. These two items could have a negative effect on the child they are referring, so I can at least understand that they might put those rules in place based on expert opinion saying it could be detrimental to the child the CCAA would refer to the family. But I can not see them telling the world that they think they can control how families add to their family over a period of 3 to 5 years when it will not adversely effect the child they are referring. If they are going to do this, I think it’s going to be something the media would pick up on, and I can’t see the CCAA purposefully getting the media involved again. The media would have a field day with this, I can see it now, they’d interview a 48 year old couple (who started the process at 46) who had planned on having two kids, but if the CCAA won’t let them complete this interim adoption (and they’d be holding a photo of a referral for the interim adoption) then they are only going to be able to have one child before they age out of this and most other programs. They’d talk about how they are about to travel for this baby (the picture they are holding), and are at least a year and a half (or possibly longer) away from their China adoption. They’d talk about how they don’t have money to do this a third time, and they’d talk about how they are about to age out of almost all programs, anyway. Can’t you see the reporter making the point that China is forcing these Americans to their own one-child policy? Yeah, I can. I can even see it being the headline.
As for the last two items, I debated with myself about whether to put this out or not. On the one hand, it’s probably someone who is grieving about “losing” a child (yeah, I know, it wasn’t their child yet, but it’s still got to feel a bit like a miscarriage to not be able to adopt a child you have been visualizing in your mind so long). And I really don’t want to add to their pain. On the other hand, this goes against so much of what is out there, that I felt I had to at least list those possibilities.
And finally, recent rumors have been just as confusing. In the past month:
- One agency that has been allowing interim adoptions is saying that they just received word from the CCAA that they should stop allowing families to do this.
- Four agencies that weren’t allowing interim adoptions have received word from the CCAA that it’s okay and they’ve begun to allow (and even help) their families begin the process for an interim adoption.
This is one that I’d like to see the CCAA address publicly, not just through the agencies. Too many agencies are giving different information. Is this because they are being dishonest and passing their own rules off as a CCAA rule? Or is it because they each have a different reviewer? Or is it because they are each interpreting the same rule a different way? I don’t know, but I think waiting parents need clarification.
Perhaps the State Department could ask the CCAA and list the answer on their page. Most of the time I’m against asking the State Department to get involved, but this seems to be too big for families to not know the answer. Families need this information so they can know how best to grow their families, and all of this conflicting information needs to stop. I do believe this deserves a State Department warning if it is true that the CCAA will kick families out of the line for adding to their families while waiting.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Wow. Shifting Sands. Next they might decide that our paperwork is too old and kick us all out until they get to dossiers that are more “timely.” Sorry for the sour grapes but really!
As always RQ. Thanks for the info. So sorry for those concurrent adopters who are now going to be so fearful of the other shoe dropping.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:02 am
I just started a concurrent adoption the end of Sept. This more than scares me, let me tell you!
October 14th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Everyone might want to consider that there are entities that might gain from getting all of us in these online frenzies. Some rumors might be created to feed the creator! Just food for thought, pun intended. :o(
October 14th, 2007 at 11:08 am
greggw2gs – you’ve posted this twice now. If you have something to say, say it. Who might want us in an “online frenzy?”
First off, this is a discussion, not a frenzy.
And second, I can’t see who would benefit from making stuff up to get families upset over a wide variety of things. One thing, yeah maybe. I can see that agencies who don’t want to allow concurrent could benefit from this particular rumor.
But I can’t see that anyone would benefit from spreading the rumor about early referrals. And since you left the exact same message on that thread, I guess I just don’t understand what you are trying to get at.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:25 am
RQ, I would prefer not to directly point this out and risk offending someone publicly. I think we are all educated enough to come to conclusions about how Internet activity might lead to reward. We might all want to consider getting our information elsewhere if we feel this way.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Well, now it sounds like you are trying to accuse me of making stuff up in order to get hits. And if that is the case then it is YOU who may want to go elsewhere.
If that is not the case then you should explain yourself.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:33 am
greggw2gs- I agree with RQ, these little cryptic messages of yours are just too bizarre, it makes you appear trollish. It is mostly annonomous here, if you have something of substance to say, you should just say it so we can discuss it. I don’t see a frenzy either, I see adults that are very concerned with the futures of their families, adults that have been more than a little patient with a process that has been way less than candid. A process that not that long ago worked like a well oiled piece of machinery and feels like it has gone to hell in a handbag over the last two years. If ya got something real to say please say it.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:37 am
RQ,
Based on your statement “But I can not see them telling the world that they think they can control how families add to their family over a period of 3 to 5 years when it will not adversely effect the child they are referring.”
Haven’t you always said that it’s China and China gets to make the rules. However unfair it may be they still get to decide what happens. This is the exact reason why we haven’t proceeded with a concurrent adoption, we just don’t want to risk anything.
In reference to greggw2gs, if they feel this way then they should go to another website to get their information. I don’t believe a word they are saying.
My two cents.
Matt
October 14th, 2007 at 11:45 am
I am not sure I understand the whole concurrent adoption thing?? If you are doing another program at the same time and you actually get a child from that other program doesn’t that automatically cancel the other adoption anyway?? I am from Canada and I was told by our agency that our ministry was allowing us to sign up with more than one program at a time but which ever one comes first is what you get and that the other would be terminated at that point. Is this different in the States??
October 14th, 2007 at 11:46 am
No Matt, not in an all inclusive “they can make whatever rule they want” kind of way. The CCAA’s rules are supposed to be there as “the best interests of the child”. All of the new requirements could be argued as being (from China’s perspective) in the best interests of the child.
But, not allowing an interim adoption in what can be a 3 to 5 year wait can’t be in the best interests of any children. As I said, I can understand them making rules about time between adoptions and time between ages of children – but to just say it can’t be done at all? If indeed that is what they plan to do, they can pretty much bet on more negative publicity, I think.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am
I asked my agency about starting a second adoption while I waited for the China referral and they said ABSOLUTELY NOT. The agency director warned me that doing so would be a violation of the agreement that they signed with the Chinese authorities and could result not just in cancellation of my adoption but also loss of license for the agency.
At the time, I was on an adoption listserv where several people told me that my agency was making up rules based on their own interpretation of Chinese law. However, not wanting to jeopardize anyone else’s possibilities, I ignored the listserv and listened to my agency. Still waiting for that referral and aging as I speak, but I feel comfortable with that decision.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:50 am
dreaming of china – I used interim here for a reason. I’m talking about an adoption that is completed while you are waiting, in the interim. I know the correct terminology is concurrent, but I was trying to talk about adoptions that are completed while waiting, not just adoptions that are started while waiting.
Some agencies (and countries) are allowing families to start two adoptions but only complete one. That is not what we’re talking about here.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:56 am
RQ, I simply think we should all consider the potential value of mis-informing the adoptive public about what’s going on. History is in the making with regard to China adoption and historically the China process has been highly regarded thus the backlog of parents wanting to adopt from China. History is also riddled with people that have used circumstances and feelings like we are feeling to their own gain. Your website is an excellent gathering place to dispel this possibility and has provided us with very useful information to do just that. Your website in the historical sense is very relevant and I am simply pointing out that the possibility of misinformation exists and we should all consider this as educated adults. In addition to my previous post should we not also consider that Agencies are in the business of not only matching needy children with parents but also making a living? If they might gain buy steering people away from China adoption by trying to discredit the most reliable IA adoption program on the planet maybe they would? That’s all I am pointing out!
October 14th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Yes, dreaming of china, the concurrent adoption I started is exactly what RQ described. I’ve waited 16 months for China with my 6/2/06 LID. I just accepted a waiting child from Taiwan, who will hopefully be home in the spring/early summer of 08. I expect my China adoption to complete somewhere between mid-2009 and 2010. I should have about a year between adoptions. If China speeds up, my China agency said they would help me in trying to put my dossier on hold to have the acceptable time gap between adoptions (my China agency requires 6 months and my Taiwan agency requires 9 months). And I am not trying to do this under the radar…I spoke with both my China agency and my Taiwan agency before accepting the Taiwan referral. Both knew about it and were supportive. Both agencies are very clear that I want to complete both adoptions.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:58 am
I agree China needs to set their own rules – but they have no rule in place on concurrent adoptions. In my mind, no rule means it’s allowed. If they don’t want people to do them, then they shouldn’t allow them for anyone and they should have a clear policy.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Ruby Hill – sorry, this is probably stupid, but what is a listserv?
Thanks:)
October 14th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Hi
With fewer children that can be adopted (countries decision), and more and more people wanting to adopt, I can somehow see the point in not allowing applicants to apply in two countries at the same time.
Waiting lists would’nt reflect the correct waiting time, and perhaps the countries would feel the urge to place new rules because of the growing nr. of applicants. (I AM NOT BLAMING ANYONE HERE FOR THE NEW RULES IN CHINA)
Also….how can one know how the 1. adoption would affect the family…how can one be sure that a 2. adoption can/will happen. I know that the application could then be terminated, but…….
fridahope
October 14th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
My agency will allow me to keep my dossier in China and submit a dossier to their Vietnam program. Whichever referral I get first is the one I keep, and then the other dossier is pulled. They will not allow me to keep the second dossier in line after I accept the first. I keep trying to talk to them about it. Jeez, the wait times for China are so long that I don’t see why it would hurt.
I think that things change slowly at agencies. There is still hope that things will improve in China, and no agency wants to get caught with families getting two referrals within 12 months of each other. I don’t see that as a possibility, however.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
But fridahope – wouldn’t that be the purpose of the new home study? If a SW sees that the baby already adopted has serious issues and she doesn’t think that the family should add another child (especially another PI child) any time soon, she’d write that in her report and China (or whichever the second country is) would then not give another referral.
Also – why would waiting lists not reflect the correct waiting time? I don’t understand that at all. There is no official “waiting time” now, so how could it get less correct if it doesn’t even exist?
October 14th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Hi!
Here in my European country we have all the time been told by our agencies that China – CCAA – don’t allow interim/concurrent adoptions. First I was very surprised at finding out that there were American agencies who allowed it. I had to ask myself wheather the American agencies were violating the rules or our agencies were – as usual – being a bit too submissive, obeying rules that weren’t even there. To be honest, neither would have surprised me. Then I thought that maybe China actually use different rules with different countries. I know they have done so concerning other issues before (for example concerning income and wealth, since we have such a generous social- and health security system, which the US doesn’t. But that’s history, I think it was a long time ago). That felt very unfair to our families, waiting as long as anybody else.
Now I don’t know what to think. Maybe our agencies were right all the time. But then I wonder why some American agencies have allowed interim adoption. Is it because they violated the rules? Is it because they never understood them? Is it because they were never informed?
This is a mess. CCAA needs to be more clear about the rules, not just about this one I think. And if they want to be able to make decisions on a case by case basis I wish they could at least be open and clear about that. I wonder where this is going to end…
October 14th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
RQ
I am aware that the issue concerning a problematic 1. adoption will be adressed. However….I still dont like the idea of two concurrent applications…and this is beacuse of the situation as it has become (quoting myself …”With fewer children that can be adopted (countries decision), and more and more people wanting to adopt”). I like the idea that “all” the people that want to adopt can actually do that within a waiting time that is not as long as we se now in many countries. Allowing people to be on more that 1 waiting list will create a longer list, scaring potentially adoptive parents off.
What I meant about correct waiting time is the situation where a lot of dossiers would be pulled – that is if the applicants decided not to go along with the CHINA adoption (as I understand from reading above some would do).
fridahope
October 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
fridahope – okay, I think I understand now. You don’t think that allowing people to be in two lines but only adopt one child is right. I don’t think that makes much sense myself, either. I can see that since those people are only going to complete one of the adoptions that the countries may have a false idea of how big their backlog really is. But, at this point I can’t see that this would affect any of the decisions being made by the sending countries.
But being in two lines when you have the option of completing both adoptions is not going to cause that problem. Yes, a small percentage of people will probably choose to not go through with the second, but with wait times of likely 3 to 5 years in China and <1 to 2 years elsewhere, there should be plenty of time to come home with the first, adjust to the first, and then adopt the second. So, I don’t think that small percentage would be a big enough of a deal to affect numbers in any big way.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Hi again RQ
Perhaps I have misunderstood something, but I thought that having 2 concurrent adoptions was a common thing, in those countries that allow it…. if in fact it is only a small number of the total, then the problem would not be that big…and my opinion of “equal rights for all” wouldnt matter.
Also….my opinion is based on the situation in my county where the waiting time in Chin is comparable to the other countries. So everybody waits a long time with just 1 adoption in line :)
fridahope
October 14th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
In my country, interim or concurrent adoptions are not allowed AT ALL. I wish they were, at least so that we could apply to adopt from several countries, and then have the first adoption completed.
:-(
October 14th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
It sounds like everyone has different rules! Last month my agency (US) called to ask me if I wanted to complete a concurrent adoption from Vietnam while I waited for China. She stated that we could do both.
October 14th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
I wonder if there has been some misunderstanding with the CCAA and perhaps agencies about what is being allowed–start 2, complete 2 vs. start 2, complete 1 (and drop out the second program.)
klem
October 14th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
For those of you outside the U.S. who can send dossiers to more than one country and accept only the first referral that comes: Do you have to pay your agency for one or two adoptions? Here in the U.S. we (at least I know this is the way my agency does it) have to pay for the service of one adoption/homestudy/dossier, and if we want to do a concurrent adoption we completely start over and pay everything again, so we have to pay for two adoption processes. Do you have to meet the requirements and pay the fees for two separate homestudies, or do you just make a duplicate dossier and send them to two separate countries, and only pay the fees for one completed adoption? Hope that makes sense.
October 14th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
We inquired at our agency about concurrent/interim adoptions and were told that without a doubt it was NOT allowed by China…and that it would jeopardize our dossier in China as well as getting the agency in trouble when it comes to renewing their licence. They said the CCAA doesn’t allow it and it was clearly discussed at the JCICS (or whatever those initials are supposed to be). Of course, I was very frustrated since I heard of so many interims…but maybe not now.
October 14th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
[I posted this question about 45 minutes ago, and still haven't seen it in the comments. If it's duplicated, please accept my apologies.]
For those of you outside the U.S. who can send dossiers to more than one country and accept only the first referral that comes: Do you have to pay your agency for one or two adoptions? Here in the U.S. we (at least I know this is the way my agency does it) have to pay for the service of one adoption/homestudy/dossier, and if we want to do a concurrent adoption we completely start over and pay everything again, so we have to pay for two adoption processes. Do you have to meet the requirements and pay the fees for two separate homestudies, or do you just make a duplicate dossier and send them to two separate countries, and only pay the fees for one completed adoption? Hope that makes sense.
October 14th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
A friend of mine did 2 adoptions at the same time one from Guatemala, and one from China with the same agency.
They are considered 2 separate adoptions, and she paid
all fees twice according to each country and program.
Her Guatemala adoption was alot more than her China
adoption. This was 3-4 years ago, and CCAA had no problems with this as her referral from China came over a
year after her adoption from Guatemala. Her baby daughter
was 4 months old from Guatemala when she came home.
Her Guat adoption was very quick once her paperwork was
sent to Guat, and she was not in PGN very long. I know it is all different now
October 14th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
It about off topic, but i was just wondering: How many days are usually between DTC and LID. Mine is really a short period of time. I don’t want people to hate me for it nor to start throwing stone.
Just a question.
LID August 07
October 14th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Waiting in canada-
We are from Ontario, and our LID is 05/30/06
Our dossier left Canada for China on the 24th of May.
We were told to wait up to 3 months for confirmation of our LID, but received it just 7 days later. Unfortunately, we got unnecessarily excited, thinking that since we were quick to get a LID, surely the whole process would also be such a breeze…..and here we wait, and wait, and wait…..
They are quick to acknowledge you, but slow to process.
Hope this helps, even if it does sound a little cynical
October 14th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
I agree that they should have a clear policy. It was cause a lot less frustration and unknowns for families.
OT- Waiting in Canada – I am wondering if you might be with the same agency as us. We were dtc August 2, 2007 and are lid August 6, 2007. It was a lot faster than we thought as well.
October 14th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I am surprised that anyone would make any changes to their China adoption paperwork for just this reason. They are making us wait forever and now apparently they age taking any reason to boot you out.
I know most of us are very by the book people but you have to look at the big picture and the new reality of China’s International Adoption program.
My advice…if your changes do not affect your ability or desire to care for you perspective adoptive child from China you should keep quiet.
I have said it before…if the adoption does not happen it would be like the death of a child. The point is: we have already committed to this child from China. Our friends and family already speaks of her as our daughter already.
My 2-cents.
October 14th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
No.5 is an interesting concept, RQ…
They could have become ineligible because of income levels, but also how many children in the home, correct?
Also, do we know their LID, or at least their Log In Month, in the China program? i.e. were they too close to referral?
Thanks for looking into this…my agency wouldn’t let us do interim, and now let you sometimes do the “apply to 2 and only do the first referred” which I think is silly in most cases, and I really really wish that CCAA would just come out and tell us all the rule!
October 14th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Waiting in Canada,
The interval from DTC to LID varies. We waited from 1/27 til 2/28 in 2006, but March picked up so that some families waited a matter of days. End results…a very large Mar 06 LID month. The same thing appeared to have happened for our agency for Dec 06 DTC’s waiting for a Feb 07 LID.
October 14th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
I thought they were prioritizes families anyway, even if you are logged in. I know they said after May 2007 that these new rules would be implemented but maybe they are doing this now. I have been told by our Guide that their focus is SN’s adoptions, which is also has very strict requirements for pap’s, and that they are only looking for the best families for the NSN’s children, and it didn’t necessarily mean that they were going to do things in LID order.
Their focus is on age, health and finances. Both our Guides told us this, and for that matter, others in China associated with adoptions. Now, who knows what is really factual and what is heresay, the only people who know for sure is the CCAA, and I doubt that they would reveal what is going on to anyone. I just feel so bad for those people waiting and never knowing if they are really next. I do believe that everyone will be referred the child that is meant to be with you.
October 14th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Maybe an “altered or updated” file will come under the new regulations?
October 14th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Why would anyone send the CCAA an updated homestudy??? We just completed our adoption ( a waiting child, we switched from SN to NSN) and had to update our homestudy for our I171-H, and we never gave China an update. Our original homestudy had us only approved for a NSN child. The only time anyone wanted to see our new homestudy was when we were applying for our daughters visa in GZ to come home. and we only highlighted the changes.
Not sure why we didn’t have to give an updated homestudy to the CCAA. For those adopting from other countries while the wait, check with your agency about needing/having to send updated homestudies. With the wait being so long….most of our homestudies would not reflect our current ages, salaries, current employment or changes in health.
October 14th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
I think the updated homestudy is when you are DTC, and you have actively pursued another adoption. My friend had to provide an update on her homestudy because she now had a daughter from Guatemala. It would be the same if you changed address or employment status, or maybe a health situation changed. You have to send in an update to CCAA with regards to any change in your life. Anyway, that is what I am lead to believe. I have to provide a post placement until my ds becomes a citizen, and in my state that will take forever. We came home on an IR4 visa, and if we don’t do it, it is a black mark against our agency. It costs me 1,500 for a yearly post placement fee until he is a citizen. I do it because I don’t want to jeapardize other peoples adoptions.
October 14th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
I think this news is just another way for the CCAA to get some more people off their lineup. Our multi-country adoption agency allows us to have dossiers in 2 different countries, with the understanding that we are pulled from the other program upon adopting the baby that comes first.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
It seems to be my understanding that one doesn’t have a choice to send the update or not. I think it is up to each individual agency. I have been trying to decide whether or not to move. I would like to buy a larger home, but my agency informed me that I would need to have an update done, even if it is before it expires and they would then HAVE to send the update to the ccaa. This is what they told me anyway. I even questioned it and was told again that YES they would indeed send the update. I’m just terrified that when they pull my dossier to add the update it will somehow not get put back in its proper place. I’m torn over what to do now.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
What about people who had a biological child after being logged in to China? Will those people run the risk of being excluded from the China program when the updated homestudy is sent over?
My husband and I, but some miracle, became pregnant after our LID and had our baby six weeks ago. We are not going to risk getting pregnant again. What are the chances that we will pay for the updated homestudy and so forth… only to be rejected because we now have one child?
October 14th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
I have read this website everyday since my DH and I began our adoption, but have never posted before. First of all, I want to thank everyone for all of the advice and information over the last 16 months.
I spoke with my adoption agency regarding a concurrent adoption. We are logged in 6/20/06 and they were supported of us pursuring that if that is what we wanted. They didn’t say that China would have a problem with it. What I am wondering is whether agencies just will not disclose the additional adoption to China. I know that we have to update our homestudy, but I am not sure of it will be forwarded to China.
Maria
October 14th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
I do know in the past that some agencies who are multi
cultural do not inform CCAA of another adoption. I have also known people who successfully completed 2 separate adoptions with 2 different agencies from different countries without informing either adoption agency that they were doing this. Now, I am not sure how they worked around the homestudies for each country requirement, maybe they used different Social Workers. This was several years ago though, so maybe it is not so easy anymore.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
RQ-
I apologize if this question has been addressed another time or another place…
It seems like (until now perhaps?) interim adoptions have been up to the discretion of the agency. Does the CCAA have an official policy on biological children born while waiting?
October 14th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
We had to update our homestudy because it expired and to get our new 171-H and it did not get sent to China. We will have to get another update because we sold our house and are moving into a rental until after the adoption then being relocated to Virginia. I talked with our agency and social worker (different people because agency is in a different state than we live in) and they said the update only needs to go to USCIS and to have a copy for embassy in China. CCAA never sees it.
Kim
LID 12/7/07
hopefully next
October 14th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
That is my question, east and west. We are logged in 6/06 and had originally planned to return to China for a second child. Since they took that away from us with the new rules, we decided to pursue a second adoption while we wait. I checked and rechecked and got it in writing from our agency that it was CCAA’s policy (as they understood it, obviously) that interim adoption was fine if and only if, our child from Guatemala was home for one year before we would bring our child home from China. I am getting really tired of being jerked arond with rule changes (from both countries) and just want some published rules. Is that too much to ask? I don’t think so. Sorry, I guess this is more venting but tonight all I can think about are my babies and bringing them home.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Our agency told us the same thing when we first started the process. That interim adoption was fine if and only if the child was home for one year before we would bring our child home from China.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
I too talked in great length with my agency about doing a concurrent adoption.
The agency said that the CCAA goes off your original dossier…the updates are for your agency…and if your agency feels that changes will affect the adoption in a way that might not be good for the child….then they will notify the CCAA…if they feel that the changes are good and will not affect the child or the adoption then they simply update your papers for “the record”.
They support our concurrent adoption and we are using a whole different agency to do it…they are happy for us and think that it is going to be a positive for the child in China as well as the child from Taiwan.
As for other agencies saying no concurrent adoptions…I have no idea…and as for an official statement from the CCAA…I won’t hold my breath.
Could the rug get pulled out from under us with the China adoption…yes….but I trust my agency as well as the new one we are working with….and we are moving forward.
~Linda
October 14th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Thanks to MacyGirlInChina and Kteach. I was so afraid to leave the dates of my DTC and my LID. The temper were high. My DTC was July 27 2007 and my LID August 2 2007. Im glad I fit in..hihihi…Kteach were from the province of Quebec.
Thanks again
October 14th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Our agency has just started allowing concurrent adoptions-with the knowledge that doing a concurrent runs the risk of having 1 or both end without a baby due to rule changes, government changes, ect. They want us to understand the very real risk that if you play with fire-your probably gonna get burned! I was thrilled that it was even an option after being with them for 2 years-and they were VERY strict on no concurrents. But then after reasearching-most agencies/countries say there is a risk to there adoptions too if you try to do a second while in process. It just looked much to risky-even with another 1-3 year wait for us!! And now this pops up, showing just how risky it is!
October 14th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
In regards to LIDs for August 2007. In general LIDs have been coming quicker since the May 1st new rules as there are less dossiers flowing in. In general I have seen LIDs usually from 3-5 days from the date received at the CCAA. That being said we expected a similar time frame but instead experienced a 17 day DTC to LID timeframe in July 07. I know of several agencies that sent dossiers in late July and August 2007 and it didn’t matter when the dossier was sent they were all logged in September. At least one agency was told it was a computer problem in August which doesn’t hold a lot of water when there were agencies getting a 3-5 day LIDs in August. One person experienced a 37 day timeframe (DTC in July, LID in September). The CCAA didn’t even try to make it fair and log them in around the time they were received. They just lumped them all into one date in September. If you ask me the CCAA is playing by their own rules, they change weekly and they definitely have some sort of favoritism within agencies.
October 15th, 2007 at 7:53 am
I have now been a part of the China adoption community for two years and I have seen no rhyme or reason to DTC to LID time frames. We were LID only 6 days after after DTC back in June 06. Others from our agency who were DTC a week after us, waited three weeks for an LID. This seems to be the case throughout recent history. Some wait, some don’t.
October 15th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I think my original question may have been interpreted as sarcasm, but seriously, does the CCAA frown upon biological children during the wait? Just curious. My husband and I miscarried during the wait (a long time ago) and I was wondering if that would have affected our status.
October 15th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
I’m really skeptical of the post on APV. First of all, this is the first post of by the person this year. (Sorry didn’t have time to check 2006) And if this person was trying to alert Parents with China LIDs why not post on APC or Chinaadopttalk????? Our agency told us to ignore the post.
October 15th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
I’d also like to know if anyone has any recent experience on the CCAA’s feelings on the arrival of a biological child during the long wait. What will the CCAA do with an update to a file informing them of a new biological child to a family.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:37 am
My agency just started allowing interim adoptions about 2 weeks ago and just sent out an e-mail saying that they are getting conflicting info from the CCAA about interim adoptions. This makes me think that there is something to it.
October 19th, 2007 at 10:10 am
This makes no sense..Homestudy updates do no go to CCAA, they go to the US consultate in China. The only way they reach CCAA is if additional information is requested by the officials handling the China adoption. When I inquired with my agency about an interim adoption, they were fine with it as long as it was a different agency than them and there was 12 months between placements which is in the best interest of all parties. I think if anything the international programs would try and prevent multiple adoptions close together which might increase the change of disruption (sound familiar?) of the second (or third) adoption. Unless someone is adopting twins I see no problem with this if it is fact the concern.