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Increase in Donation for GuangxiWe’ve been hearing rumblings about the SWI “donation” being raised for a while. The rumblings got very loud in June and July of 2007 and then mostly quieted down. Some SWI’s have been requiring a $4,000 donation, but most are still in the $3,000 to $3,500 range. I’m getting word that the Guangxi Provincial Authorities have raised the fee in Guangxi to $5,000. Effective immediately. Anyone else out there hearing this? 
Note from RQ: The section below is for comments from ChinaAdoptTalk.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with any particular comment just because I let it stand. Posts are generally only removed if they don't follow the rules of the site. Anyone who fails to comply with the rules of the site may lose his or her posting privilege. 88 Responses to “Increase in Donation for Guangxi”Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. |
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March 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I actually saw posted in my FCC group last week that they were all raising the donation to $5000 eventually. I am not sure if this is correct info or not but that is what someone posted.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:52 am
I’ve said this all along, I would be happy to pay more, if the children would have better care and it would move things along… In the grand scheme of things what’s a couple thousand more?
March 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Yes, it is assumed that the donation is going to go up at some point, but most have assumed that it won’t happen until after the Olympics.
This rumor says that Guangxi is doing it now, not later.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I would be fascinated to know what criteria they are using in establishing the fee.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Has anyone used this as an actual charity donation on there taxes and not against there adoption fees.
Andy
March 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I’m not surised, considering what the dollar is doing and how inflation is getting so bad over there. FYI CCAA website has a new news post where they are trying to raise money for various needs. They probably will not get much of a response since they took off the box, the main reason people had to vist the site.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I have heard this exact thing from our agency. Guangxi has raised the fee to $5000.00.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am
IIRC, the regulation is actually written that the SWI’s can charge from $3,000 to $5,000. This means that they can go up to $5,000 without having to change any laws.
I’m guessing that is the criteria - what they can do without having to go through the MoCA (or higher) to get the regulations changed.
I’d thought that they might just up it in $500 increments every 8 months or so in order to keep it from being something that would interest the media. An increase of $500 wouldn’t be enough for them to write it up and get interest in it, but an increase of $2,000 very well might.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Andy - you cannot claim it as a charitable deduction. You can put it towards your $10,000 credit, but it is not a charitable deduction. First, it’s required so it’s not really a donation, and second, the SWI is not a 501c3 organization.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Things just keep getting better and better don’t it !
March 5th, 2008 at 11:10 am
We got home one month ago from Guanxi and heard nothing about this…not even rumors that it might happen. I’m glad that we went when we did, but I would have paid the higher fee as well.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:21 am
My husband was just saying to me yesterday that he is thinking that CCAA will not slow down too much more than they have because he thinks some of these orphanages must be hurting for money the same way our agencies are hurting for money. With fewer families adopting per year obviously their donations are coming fewer and farther between.
So this is how they will solve it, just charge us more!!! And keep us waiting indefinately.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:21 am
This is unreal. I wouldn’t mind the increase if we didn’t have to keep paying each year to update the paperwork. Our agency charges $600 per year for the homestudy and next year we will have to pay for the fingerprinting and the I-600. Unlike what most people seem to think, we are not rich. We have mortgages, bills, and car payments. We will not be taking any vacations now if this is true. It would be nice to get away with the stress of this last year, but it doesn’t look like that will happen. Those of you who are getting your babies now can be so glad. With a log in date date of 1-2007 I wish I could crawl in a hole and come out in 2011.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Not really all that surprised, but I feel for the families who may have not planned on this extra expense. I am with RQ ; I wish they could have phased the increase in a little more slowly (ie increase by $1000/year and then another $1000 next year)…but I can understand totally why the fee is going up…
March 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
I have no problem with the extra money if this will get more paper ready babies. But if it is just going to go into the pocket of some big wigs with in the adoption world in China, well then bleep bleep bleep.
Once again I will say it, I will never ever put my wife and I through the torture of and adoption from China. Also I will never recommend China to any one new.
Matt & Laura
LID 10/13/06
March 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Thanks Rumor queen on the tax info
FYI the 2008 tax credit is now $11,650 on the IRS site for everyone that finalizes an adoption in 2008
Andy
March 5th, 2008 at 11:43 am
If there are supposedly fewer children available for adoption, then if anything the donation should be reduced.
…I guess the rhetoric only goes one way.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Wait4ever-
I’m with you. $2,000 is a lot of money for me too, especially with the extra payments we’re going to have to make for I-600 updates, etc. All these challenges just make me want to cry.
But I meant what I said the other day. The day IS GOING TO COME when you and I both are getting our referrals and we’re finally getting our babies. I’m trying so hard to stay focused on that, which is really hard when hearing something like this. But I’m trying.
Let me know if you want some ideas on fundraising…I’ve been using some great ones! We both have to hang in there.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Finding Hope,
I will take any ideas you have. Thanks. Any words of encouragement also help. Our social worker is checking on this right now. As soon as I get any news from the agency directly, I will write in ASAP. I hope this one is a “wrong rumor”. If anyone has any info. about the review room I would love to hear it. I think I will feel bettre when we are through.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
As much as this is a significant increase, I’m happy to pay whatever fees are required to bring more paper ready babies home and to get all babies the best possible care we can in the orphanages.
If I understand things correctly, the fee has not increased from $3000US in about 15 years. RQ, do you know if this is correct?
When I think of how much my cost of living has increased in the past 15 years I can fully understand the increase. Also, in the past everybody was required to pay the fees in US dollars. As a Canadian, it often cost us close to $5000 to purchase $3000US so in some ways it’s not really as much of an increase to others as it is to our US friends. My agency recently advised us that we would no longer be required to purchase new US bills but would now be taking CDN $ in travellers cheques and purchasing Yuan to pay our orphanage fees.
Many changes are being made around the world when it comes to the orphanage fees.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Wait4ever-
Let me put something together on my blog about fundraising. I’ve found that too long a message here doesn’t go through (probably a glitch in my computer). I’ll let you know when it’s ready.
You and I are so close together with our LID’s that we’ll be going through all of this at the same time. I tend to sit on the pity potty for a little while but then bounce back quickly, so hopefully I can help keep your spirits up. As this is my second adoption from China, I can also totally attest to the fact that a wonderful, beautiful baby does, in fact, wait at the end of this all.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
It seems like people feel that this increase will speed thing up?? What does “bring home more paper ready babies” mean?? I don’t see the corelation. It just feels another slap in the face. I just remember the day back in 2006 that we were told we would have to wait just one year to finally have a baby after struggling for years. I agree with cab21404 and I feel your pain and frustration with this process.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I just got an e-mail from my social worker at our agency. They have not heard of any increase. I hope this is just a rumor. It is confusing because someone said their agency confirmed it. I will keep checking back.. I am so grateful for RQ. I feel like this is the only way to find out any new info.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
We received an email update from our Canadian agency yesterday that the orphanage donation is increasing to $5000 for Guangxi. This is the only province so far and they will let us know if others follow.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Don’t shoot the messager!!
I read a long time ago about the 3000 to 5000 OPTION of each orphanage.
I am posting the government site :
http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/country/country_365.html
Go down to CHINESE ADOPTION FEES and then to # 6.
This information has been on this site for the past couple of years…
I am guessing with the slow down they would “need” to up the fee to cover the children not leaving. Less children leaving, means less money coming in… I can see why they are doing this.. doesn’t mean I like it but I see why…
Jill Shelton
March 5th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
momtomj, we must be with the same agency.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
what is the “donation” for people who live in China to adopt domestically?
anyone know???
March 5th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Many have stated they wouldn’t mind paying extra *if* it helped make more babies “paper ready”.
But won’t it do the Exact Opposite?!
Why make 3 babies paper ready, if you can now receive the same total donation with only 2?
If anything, I take this as SWI’s adjusting to the lower referral rate without reducing total revenue from “donations”
…Big-Picture for me is it is yet another Bad Sign
March 5th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Many have stated they wouldn’t mind paying extra IF it helped make more babies “paper ready”.
But won’t it do the Exact Opposite?!
Why make 3 babies paper ready, if you can now receive the same total donation with only 2?
If anything, I take this as SWI’s adjusting to the lower referral rate without reducing total revenue from “donations”
…Big-Picture for me is it is yet another Bad Sign
March 5th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Trying hard to type with gratitude, gratitude…very tough. hahaha…my secuirty word is xiexie. How ironic.
I figured out the pivotal part of this fee increase that I find objectionable. It has to do with the failure to inform people ahead of time. In our country we are used to having advance warning of change. (As in…for the future, this agency is going to do such and such.) Evidently, in China, it’s okay to change a rule immediately and make people adjust to it. I think I am just not used to that way of doing business.
But, if it affects me, I WILL adjust in a rather snarly manner. What else can I do? I’ve been waiting so long whole new countries have been formed. At least we are still dealing with the same government. I suppose that is good news.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Wait4ever-
I put some fundraising ideas on my blog. The blog itself is still in progress so nothing too interesting. But I hope the financing ideas help.
http://BringingHomeMeiMei.blogspot.com
March 5th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
On the Xianyang yahoo list I just read that people were told by their agencies that XY SWI raised their fee to 5000 dollar. we couldn;t believe it, but after reading this all….
This is in Shaanxi province
March 5th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
be nice if they froze the fees at the time of the LID.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
In December I traveled to Jiangxi and had to pay $4000 for our donation. Our agency told us $3000 when we left to travel.
Adomom
March 5th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Confirmed with our agency 10 minutes ago that this is an UNSUBSTANTIATED rumor. Currently, the fee, er… “donation” is $3k.
An add’l $2k would hurt, but what’s it matter? We’ll pay it; it doesn’t do any good to worry and fret about something we don’t know and can’t influence.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I believe the orphanage donation is meant to assist the SWI in taking care of the children that are living in the orphanage.
What I worried about as these rumors started in August - not province specified - was that the fee would go up but I wouldn’t know until we showed up in China. I hoped the agency would either be informed before we left, or that they could cover the difference, wiring the difference and invoice us later. It turned out the worry was for naught. I even asked our handlers in country and they hadn’t heard anything - even the rumor. We were lucky to be with an agency that wires the money, we pay them before we go. Our handler brought a backpack full of money to the office on adoption day. I’m glad I wasn’t aware of it until we were safely there. You see $100 is really $12 USD so it took hundereds of $100 to get to $3,000 USD, for all 6 families.
It seems if people are waiting a long time for their referral, they should start hoarding a little per month ASAP just in case.
So it’s not as big a hit when the time comes. It’s more likely to happen to those with a long wait ahead. Lot’s of time for them to officially increase it.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
wait4ever -
here’s why the $$$ increase may help speed things along (reasoning from the director of my large china-only agency):
costs have gone up so much over the past 15 years that the $3,000 doesn’t come close to buying what it used to.
which means many orphanage directors simply can’t be bothered to get babies paper-ready for such a small return. getting them paper-ready means a lot of extra work… doctor’s exams and reams of paperwork, etc….
so hopefully, with the promise of greater returns, they will be willing to do the extra work.
but the day will never come when the orphanages are empty: then the orphanage directors would be out of a job.
i feel for people who will struggle to cough up the extra $2,000. but i join those who would be very, very happy to pay it (and more even!) if it means getting more children into the adoption pipeline.
perhaps, for
March 5th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
When we were in China last week, our facilitator told us about the increase. He said it was possible that it would be implemented, across the board, for all provinces on March 1st. He also indicated that it had been quite some time since any increase in the donation fee had been made and that with the USD falling, orphanages were not netting as much as in the past.
I agree, that they probably should have been increasing the fee incrementally, but over the past several years, rather than all at once.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I sure hope this rumor is not true. This is our daughter’s province and we leave next Wednesday to get her. I sure hope we are not going to have to pay an additional $2,000 fee right now.
We are awaiting the amount we have to send in and we will not know toward the end of the week.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I wonder if the winter storms that hit the orphanages kind of hard has anything to do with the increased fees being implimented? And the goverment throwing all they can to the olympic “face”
March 5th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
King-
What’s the expression? “Expect the best, but plan for the worst.” I would call your bank, get a short-term loan for $2,000 and then worry about it when you get home. You are going to be so overyjoyed with having your daughter that it really isn’t going to matter. You’re getting your baby, and that is the only thing you should have to think about right now. Enjoy every minute of it!
March 5th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Could Guangxi being an Autonomous Region verses Province have anything to do with it or why it has changed and not others?
March 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Can I just say that the level of unhappiness about the donation increasing is plain and simple staggering!
This fee has not increased in years! How many of you would stay in the same job without a pay rise? How many of you question the govt when petrol and milk prices increase?
We just pay it and get on with life!
Yes it is hard to find the extra money whether it is a few extra cents at the gas station or at the supermarket! Inflation is a factor in China too! I just don’t see the fact that it hasn’t been an increase in fees amazing! I would have expected there to be an increase and in reality it is still a relatively inexpensive option!
Also all those in the states at least you can claim a tax rebate! We wear the total cost and i must admit I wouldn’t even hesitate if it was more!
I have to say that the increase won’t have an effect on the SWI in not getting babies paper ready! I think we all need to breathe and look at the big picture stuff!
A newborn baby with leave etc and medical costs etc costs around the same as an adoption including the 8-12 months of formula and diapers!
Just be thankful China is allowing us to adopt their children!
I know I am each and everyday!
Regards Ruth in NZ
March 5th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
My agency has not notified us of the change. If I hear something from them this week I will let you know.
March 5th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
If this is the case, I really do hope this money goes towards the care and needs of the children.
An instant extra $2000 hike? Yikes. A $500 at a time rise would be more easily found.
This might also back fire and cause another group of prospective parents to either pull out or not apply in the first instance.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
At our travel meeting 2 weeks ago, we were told the fee would be $3000. Nothing has been said different yet. We are waiting for TA to bring our little girl home from Jiangxi.
If it goes up, what are we to do? Just pay and bring her home! (sigh)
March 5th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Bornfromtheheart,
I doubt it will backfire and cause people to pull out. No matter how financially strapped we are, I imagine just about everyone of us would find a way to come up with the extra and pay whatever the cost for our child. And for those that might pull out, there are plenty more right behind them that won’t. We are at their mercy. Heavy sigh :-(
March 5th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
HI BUZZBUZZ,I’M TAKING A BREAK RIGHT NOW FROM A TAX RETURN, HOW HAVE YOU BEEN OUT THERE IN THE WARM WEATHER. IT’S PRETTY BLEAK IN MASS.TODAY. MORE SNOW RAIN ON THE WAY FOR THE WEEKEND. MAYBE THE EXTRA FEES WILL MOVE IT ALONG.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
I think that the different countries that adopt from China have different fees to be paid than the USA. I know that when we adopted from VN, we paid thousands MORE in the US Fees than did someone from France….I wonder how many countries have to keep redoing papers and paying more like we do here in the USA….sigh…the donation is a global fee, but the others we encounter are not.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Is the donation set by province or by SWI? We traveled to Jiangxi in September and paid $3000 — which our agency wired ahead of time — yet I see adomom paid $4000 in the same province a few months later. I would have panicked if I’d gotten to China and only then found out I had to come up with another $1000 on the spot. Once in China, though, we did have to pay all our in-province fees in yuan instead of USD, which our agency rep said was because of the drop in the dollar’s value. So I think our notary fee was a little more than our agency had quoted once we converted the money.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
HELLO BUZZBUZZ,I TAKING A LITTLE BREAK FROM DOING TAX RETURNS ,HOW’S EVERYTHING GOING? MAYBE THE EXTRA FEES WILL INDEED MAKE THINGS GO A LITTLE FASTER. AT LEAST THEY ARE IN OUR YEAR.LID 9-16-06 TAKE CARE OUT THERE IN THE WARM SUNNY WEATHER.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
I agree with mumatomany. The fee increase is well within their rights. Fuel and food are more expensive. The fee has been stagnant for so many years. $2000 more is not over the top. China has implimented financial requirements for a reason.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Actually, my agency told me this a couple of days ago. They are trying to get us in and out before our province decides to raise its fees. That is one of the concerns that we are dealing with right now.
March 5th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
mummatomany, I think that the most alarming point of the orphanage donation increase for many people is the extremely short notice that was given. For families that have already budgeted for the entire adoption, have their bags packed and their $3,000 in new, crisp bills ready to go, it may be very difficult for them to find another $2,000 overnight and to get their new bills. It would have been much better for an announcement to come out, “Effective May 1st”, etc.
As many people here have said, they understand that the fee has not changed in years, and they will gladly pay it. Advance notice of funds needed for the travel portion of the trip would be nice, however.
Another mom to many, who is also thankful each and every day for my precious children.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
mummatomany Says:
March 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Can I just say that the level of unhappiness about the donation increasing is plain and simple staggering!
This fee has not increased in years! How many of you would stay in the same job without a pay rise? How many of you question the govt when petrol and milk prices increase?
We just pay it and get on with life!
******************
Here is some of my take on this. When we signed on with China, it was expensive and we knew that, we accepted that and went forward, had there been a fee increase during our short wait for both of our daughters we would not have been happy about it, we would have payed it, but it would have felt like we had been decieved. Now, fast forward to a wait that seems like it could never have come to this in anyone’s wildest nightmares and add fees for fingerprints, paperwork etc AND NOW increased orphanage fees. Yes, yes, yes! We are thrilled and grateful to have our daughters and would have paid whatever it took, but jeez, I don’t think it is necessary to make anyone feel that they are being selfish if they resent the added dollar amounts that are being required. Let’s add in $4/gallon gas and everthing else that is hitting middle America hard. We have enough $$ that it would never have been an issue and I definitely would have resented any surprise fees, I can’t imagine how people are feeling who are on a tight budget! I think we all are painfully aware of how orphanages struggle to take care of their wards, but to think this shouldn’t be painful is a bit insulting to me. The whole situation is very sad and painful to me, I know there are too many children in need of homes and I hate the thought of people not signing on because the fees are just getting to be too much, not to mention the wait. If anyone can honestly say they did not look at the fees and weigh that when it came time to make a decision on what country to adopt from I’ll eat my hat. I firmly believe that discussion about the unhappiness of the situation is 100% appropriate.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
michellev, yeah, we must be with the same agency. We are in ON, LID May 28/07. What about you?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
I am normally a lurker, but after reading some of the comments made on this topic, I feel I need to express my feelings. Again, I am talking about our specific situation.
We are not wealthy by no means. We have spent lots of money on fertility treatments and on one previous adoption. We don’t have a magic money tree in the back yard.
When we went to China to adopt DD#1, we noticed that the cost of living is extremely low. $3,000.00 goes a LONG way. $5,000.00 will go even farther. Foster families in China can support one child with less than $400.00 a year.
With all that said, I understand international adoption has a lot of unknowns and things can change overnight, but at the same time I think folks need to think about those of us who struggle to be able to parent and $2,000.00 is a lot of money.
I think adoption should be more affordable,and that goes for domestic and international.
Please be considerate of other folks. We all have the children’s best interest in mind…some of us just don’t have a lot of money, that’s all. That shouldn’t stop us from adopting.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
We traveled to Jiangxi in November. Our fee was about 3500, as it was based on the exchange rate of the yuan we were told because of the falling dollar value. It was explained that it would no longer be a flat fee but would bary based on the value of the dollar. Maybe they decided to go up a flat amount to allow for all the variances in the dollar and stop the confusion.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
An increase in orphanage fees seems to be perfectly in line with what is happening now. China is referring out less children and intends to keep more of their babies in orphanages/foster homes in China. I have seen reports that China wants to improve all their orphanages. That is a positive and good things.
But to me, an increase in fees would not make more babies paper ready-it would just allow the orphanages a similar budget to what they would get if they adopted out more babies.
I think it would be wise for everyone to start working on gathering the extra $2,000. If you don’t end up needing it, than great, start a college fund for your child. If you do, you won’t be under the stress of finding that much quickly and at one time.
Personally, the orphanage fee is the only fee I am happy to pay. It seems to directly benefit the children. The other seemingly endless fees that keep popping up with the wait are the ones that are making me crazy.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Well said “mummatomany”!
Ruth, I heartily agree with you. I cannot complain about giving more funds to the organization that has cared from my future child. If nothing else, the weaker dollar has actually made the current $3,000 donation worth significantly less in real terms. The rumored increases are for the most part reasonable in relation to the total cost of the adoption.
The Farmer From Iowa
March 6th, 2008 at 5:18 am
Hello everyone
I am writing from the U.K and cannot share names as this information was seen on another adoption website.
One adoptee who is hoping to go to China imminently had email contact with her experienced adoption guide, his opinions on the increase in fees may be of interest
14 years ago 3000 dollars equated to 30,000 yuan
now 3000 dollars equates to 21,000 yuan.He also stated that the price of powdered milk, rice cereal ect have increased. The orphanages lack the funds to look after the babies and turn a blind eye when locals take in abandoned babies. He seemed to indicate that the fees would increase very soon and that this would result in the orphanages retrieving the children taken in and any future abandoned children with renewed interest and incentive, thus speeding up the process.I do not know if this makes sense or if it is true but it is a small scrap of hope.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:21 am
Why are my posts dissapearing into the ether?
March 6th, 2008 at 5:36 am
I really cant see what all the fuss is about.
We were told the fees were between $3000 -$5000 in 2006.
We just went with the $5000 amount and saved the amount each month.
Although I have to say the Euro is at a good rate against the $ at the moment so its not as bad for us. $5000 is € 3300 at the moment and thats not a lot to adopt a child, in my eyes anyway. To me its worth it.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:43 am
Hello everyone I have tried to post about 4 times now but you know how stubborn and persistent us adopters can be so I will try again.
I just wanted to share something that I read elswhere that was written in an email by a respected and experienced
adoption guide.The subject was about the increased fees and the email was writtenin Feb 08
The fees will go up imminently.
!4 years ago 3000 dollars equated to30,000 yuan
Now 3000 edollars equates to 21,000 yuan,
The price of milk powder,rice flour ect has increased.
The orphanages cannot afford to look after these children
In some cases the abandoned children are taken in locally and the orphanages turn a blind eye. He feels that once there is an incentive for the orphanages,e.g. increased fees the children will be retrieved and future abandoned children will be taken into the orphanages,speeding up the process .please do not shoot the messenger I just thought it was worth a mention.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Hello 4Emily
Please be comforted that here in the U.K. we pay for all our medical and criminal updates ect. It took us over a year just to get our papers to China and we have to endure the same home study reviews ect . In a lot of cases when you are over the moon about referrals our refferals often sit on government desks without even so much as an email to the expectant parents. If we did not have access to Rumour Queen we would have no clue of the cut off dates. we are not allowed to have concurrent adoptions or pregnancies at present and we have no agencies just a government department which is not exactly over the moon about inter country adoption. I hope that makes you feel a little better Because it is certainly meant in that way and with a slight sense how humour at how mad we all are to embark on this unique journey.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:48 am
What is frustrating is the long term total cost. It will be worth it I’m sure if we actually do become parents
but in the mean time
faced with additional thousands here and there for homestudy updates, 171h renewals , and to be faced with a wait years out into the future
is beyond frustrating.
For me personally……….an additional 2k is not going to break our bank
but………hey, this whole adoption which started out as 17k
has turned into the mid 20’s
and there’s no kid in sight. Confidence that there will be is very very low…….
so, since at this time……..we’re so far out
It’s hard to not focus on financial loss.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:59 am
momtomj,
Southern Ontario, LID Nov. 20/06.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:33 am
For the one or two posters appauled by the panic that some families are feeling, please try to be kind to the others on this site who may be in a more challenging fiscal situation. We’re all just trying to get our children home, and yes, hopefully we’ll all be able to come up with the extra money (orphanage donation, I-600 extensions, refingerprinting, etc.) But for many, it’s going to be an uphill battle; more than worth it in the end, but still a battle. As most members of this site are already doing, please let’s be supportive of each other.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:33 am
I’m not sure exactly which year the fees increased the last time, but I’m sure it was not 14 years ago. I think it might have been around 7-8 years, a wild guess. Still uncertain, I think they about doubled them back then.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:29 am
We adopted a child from Guangxi in 1999. The orphanage told us that they were not allowed to keep much of the donation, they had to pay tax for it, about 80 %…
March 6th, 2008 at 10:36 am
I look at it this way: when we board the plane for China, we will know within a few dollars what all our required fees and costs will be. The only real variable will be our discretionary spending on meals, souvenirs, and etc. Unlike the people I know who have adopted from other countries, had to make two international trips and/or live in country, AND take a satchel full of cash because they had to grease the palms of every petty official they encountered.
A former colleague of my wife adopted from a South American country. What was supposed to be a 3 week trip became 3 months because there was always another fee, or another paper to file, permit to apply for, and so on ad infinitum. Finally, after exhausting all their resources, she was able to convince the officials that the well was dry, and after one last $100 fee she was permitted to leave the country with her child.
There’s no doubt the SWI’s are alway short of resources, so an increase in fees is no real surprise. Any surprise should be that the increases should be so modest. No, we are not wealthy, we will either be dipping further into our (very) modest retirement savings (I am nearly 53), or taking a loan to complete the adoption, but the change will not affect our determination to see this through.
The Farmer From Iowa
March 6th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Inflation, coupled with the dropping US dollar, means that $3,000 ain’t what it used to be. I traveled in January 2004 and March 2007. My orphanage fee was $3000 each time. However, I can tell you that the prices of everything were much higher in 2007 than they were just 3 years earlier. Even little things, like a can of soda, had increased by 5-10 yuan. I know diapers and formula were more expensive. We really couldn’t expect that the SWIs could continue to accept what equates to less and less money indefinitely. Think about it – how many of us are still working for the same salary we made in 1994? Personally, I would never have qualified to adopt 2 children from China if I was!
March 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am
We’re in a pretty tight financial situation right now so $2,000 is a lot of money to us. Not to mention that our Vietnam adoption fees have gone up $4,000 in the last year (plus all the home study, USCIS renewals, etc.) The hardest thing to swallow is that if our adoptions had gone through in the general time frames quoted to us when we began them, we would have paid about $8,000 or $9,000 less–and had our children earlier. So it’s hard to look on the bright side.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I have got notification from my agency today that they are unaware of this fee increase. We leave next week for China. She gave us the amount to send and it is still $3,000. They called this morning to China and their facilitator gave them the $3,000 donation amount not $5,000. Hopefully this is just a rumor because we will be fully unprepared to pay an additional $2,000 next week when we go.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:43 am
King,
Are you adopting from Guangxi province? And congratulations on your adoption!
March 6th, 2008 at 11:52 am
King-
Again, I would hope for the best but plan for the worst. Personally, I would call my credit union (or bank) and just have them on standby. They can process a short term loan very quickly (should you need it) and someone can wire you the money. Hopefully, you won’t need it. But if you do, you have backup.
In any case, GO GET YOUR BABY!! Congratulations, and the very best of wishes for a wonderful trip!! Give kisses to your new daughter from all of us.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Thank You. We are very excited. We leave next Wednesday. We have waited 2 long years for this moment. I think our agency will cover us until we get back. They wire the money for us. We don’t have to carry that kind of money with us. They are double checking for us again on the donation fee. We have 3 couples going to Guangxi Province, so they are looking out for us I hope.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
For us all the increase in redundant fees (renewal of I-171H,fingerprints, HS updates, MORE medicals on everyone in order to get the HS updates etc…)all this has counted as thousands more and as a result we now will only be able to adopt one child from China. When we began this in Sept. 2005 paperchasing we had hopes and plans to adopt again from China so they had a sibling….sigh….
I am also very concerned that what else will change/go up or what not before our LID of May 2006 is reached?
Hang in there everyone…..
March 6th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
4emily-
Don’t completely rule out a second adoption just yet. Remember, you’re going to get a $11,650 tax credit that can be carried over for 5 years. Take that extra tax refund and dump it into an adoption fund. Depending on how old you are, you may have time to save for a second adoption. I’m basically a poster child for the fiscally challenged :) and I’m managing to finance a second adoption. It’s just taking me many years.
But don’t worry about that yet. Get this baby home. And if you’re meant to have a second, you’ll figure out how to make it happen.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
scrapping in Ontario-
I seriously doubt the higher fees means more paper ready babies. I think the ‘paper ready’ babies are going to continue to decline, as I’ve always assumed that China would prefer keeping a larger percentage of children in China, even if it means raising them in orphanages.
More likely, the rate hike is because of what a previous poster said, that the orphanages are bringing in so much less funds than they were a year or two ago, and they have to make up for it.
Quite honestly, I would prefer that the fees stay the same, and that China either decides to continue adopting IA at a faster rate, or stop IA all together. It’s madening that they bring it to a trickle and then charge us more because of it.
The Chinese government should be paying more toward keep the orphanages abover sub-human standards, it’s a country with a booming economy now. I don’t like how it feels like bribery to increase the “donation” fees so high.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Again:
Confirmed with our agency [yesterday] that this is an UNSUBSTANTIATED rumor. Currently, the fee, er… “donation†is $3k.
An add’l $2k would hurt, but what’s it matter? We’ll pay it; it doesn’t do any good to worry and fret about something we don’t know and can’t influence.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
The Tax refund…but not if you don’t live in the US. Many countries don’t have this.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I am surprised it took this long for them to realize they could charge more!
If China was really motivated to clean up any corruption and support domestic adoptions etc. then why allow for more money to enter into the system?
It seems that the money gets lost somewhere between the A-parents and the kids in the orphanage. There is no way that orphanages are taking in millions and actually spending it on the children.
Add in the non-profit charities that offer crucial support and life saving surgeries, food, clothing, toys, cribs…
Where did that $3000 per child go and where will the additional money go?
I remember back to the days when I tried to justify that money and now I see there is no way to explain it.
It is time to see more centralized control over that money and more balance and accountability!
They know people will not question it and will pay what is required. Look at the amounts we are talking about now… literally millions!
Our kids should have been cared for like millionaires not impoverished orphans. They should be getting all the care they need and more with these funds and they are not.
Someone is living like millionaires, but it is not the children!
March 6th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
As aptly noted, the fee has been the same for over 10 years. An increase is long overdue. Most people bring home kids who have lived for at least one year in their institution—how many of us spend just $3,000 to support our child for a year? Yes the cost of living in China is less but its on the way up too. And of course money goes for more than just one child–why shouldn’t it? There are plenty of children who because they are not “perfect” or because they are older will never get adopted. Don’t those children deserve care too? What about the elderly in the same institution? What about the mentally handicapped?
kareninca wrote “The Chinese government should be paying more toward keep the orphanages abover sub-human standards, it’s a country with a booming economy now. I don’t like how it feels like bribery to increase the “donation†fees so high.”
And exactly how many orphanages have you visited which give you a basic to claim that Chinese orphanages are at “sub-human” standards? Based on the historical photos related to my kids’ former homes from parents in our yahoo group over the years, what your saying is a load of {r@p.
No, every orphanage in China isn’t a palace but they aren’t all pits either. I’ve been to two different orphanages in 2 different provinces. Both show lots of positive impact from years of donations. And I’ve looked at lots of photos from families adopting from my kids orphanages. That the money is put to good use—in the form of new buildings, training, environment, etc—is very clear. And no, its not all because of Half the Sky.
Frankly, I shudder at the thought of so many children who will end up in homes with parents who feel free to say so many disparaging things about their children’s birth countries and to engage in such virulent China bashing. And I have to wonder, if a person has such strongly negative feelings about China, why on earth are go there to adopt?
Word to the wise: At least some of you out there will have children who will love both you AND their orphanage caretaker. If you want a lifelong relationship with your child—a good and healthy one–use the extra time of the wait to resolve your feelings towards China NOW before there’s a child in your house.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:18 am
I am jumping in late and jet lagged and tired and am confessing I did not read the entire thread. But I just left Guangxi last week and paid 3000. Our daughter was in Guilin and we went to Nanning.
Check out my new daughter!!!
http://www.eastandwestkids.blogspot.com
I also got to visit my daughter’s orphanage and was so impressed! I would gladly have given 4000 as the money is going towards the kids. I got to see the rooms and the facilities and my 3 year old knows her English alphabet, can draw various shapes and sing many children’s songs. I can’t wait to discover more that she knows!
March 7th, 2008 at 9:04 am
jenn, it is not about negative feelings for China, it is about corruption and about exploitation and neglect, trauma, PTSD, AD and the other many lifelong realities that come with poor care. It is about orphanage staff not providing care with all of the dollars sent.
Why would anyone equate an honest observation about an orphanage to an entire country?
I do agree that there are also good orphanages and foster care, however I do not agree it is universal in the China program and it should be.
Of course I love my child’s country of birth! We embrace the country, culture and people of China however we look at the reality of a system that can easily get away with what they want because of what we all wanted and our blind faith.
Personally I feel that when people are made to feel guilty for being honest about what we have experienced and know to be true, then many retreat (which is usually the motive) and when this happens people do not advocate for change which of course allows for corruption to continue.
I also feel that it is just as important to acknowledge the reasons why our kids may be struggling and why they are in therapy. How do we explain why they had years of therapy without explaining the effects of neglect to them?
It is not about China at all! It is about a system (which is different than a country). If our local domestic adoption system was neglecting kids and taking in as much as the China program, I am quite sure people would have lots to say about it and not feel unpatriotic.
Let’s be careful about terms here. China is not an orphanage.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Cathy:
Of course there is a difference between China and an orphanage but thats not what people were saying. No one–you included qualified what you were saying to speak of a particular problem orphanage–instead there were lots of generalities about corruption and corrupt officials.
“There is no way that orphanages are taking in millions and actually spending it on the children.”
Define “spending it on the children.” Built any buildings lately? Since adoption, my #2’s SWI built a new facility using money from families and money that was fundraised by the director. Its awesome—huge green areas to play in, nice building, lots of room.
“How do we explain why they had years of therapy without explaining the effects of neglect to them?”
1. Any child in any institution anywhere experiences neglect. That is true if the institution is in China, in Russia, in Ethiopia or in Des Moines.
2. Any child who is abandoned or goes through a major medical trauma or any number of other things MAY experience PTSD or some form of attachment disorder. Note use of the word “MAY”–results will depend on the character of the individual child.
3. All things considered, I think China has done an awesome job at improving its orphanages. I look at pictures of the place where my #2 came from then and now and am astonished. I know that was able to happen because of the money paid by adoptive families. I also know that money just doesn’t go as far as it used to.
“I do not agree it is universal in the China program and it should be.”
I never said that great care was “universal” in the China program–its not universal in the US or Canada or Europe either. Ask anyone working in child services. Ought to be. At the same time, horrible care is not universal either. And when people make sweeping general statements about corrupt officials in China, in my humble opinion and experience its wrong. I think most staff in Chinese SWIs do an awesome job. I also think that MOST staff are willing to do better–if that weren’t true, Half the Sky and Amity wouldn’t be received so positively by the various SWIs and the Chinese authorities. If that wasn’t true, every child coming from China would have much bigger issues. Remember, when a child does attach to the adoptive parent that is also because somewhere, an ayi did a good job.
“it is not about negative feelings for China, it is about corruption and about exploitation and neglect, trauma, PTSD, AD and the other many lifelong realities that come with poor care. It is about orphanage staff not providing care with all of the dollars sent.”
1. i have two older children. I find they are not very good at making the sort of extrapolation you describe. I don’t think their reaction is uncommon. When adults express those views and speak generally of “china” children don’t make the leap to individuals in a particular SWI–they hear only China.
2. As for orphanage staff, Your statement is unqualified—how do you know they are all bad? Did you read the reports from Half the Sky on all the orphanage staff who stayed on the job during the weather crisis? Who hauled water from wells when the electricity was down? Who really did walk through the snow and ice? I’ve met a fair number of orphanage staff. I have found them dedicated and genuinely concerned about the children in their care.
None of which is to say that some children do not come home with serious issues or that even better care couldn’t prevent such issues.
Tell you what—I’ll agree to say qualify my comments with “some” if you do the same.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
jenn, you said “Your statement is unqualified—how do you know they are all bad”
This is what I said in the previous post “I do agree that there are also good orphanages and foster care, however I do not agree it is universal in the China program and it should be.”
So I did not say ALL are bad.
My main points are that people are willing to give what it takes to get a child. We do not have all the facts and nor do we feel empowered to ask for those facts or any details. As a matter of fact, this forum would not have evolved had we had any facts! It is because of this open dialogue that we get the details that we do.
The major charities that work well within China and do great jobs also admit that they do what they do for the kids.
One very well known charity has said that they do not like to ask questions or challenge issues that they know are wrong because they worry about losing the internal access that is needed for the kids. They pick their battles wisely. That before they went in, the kids would die from life challenging problems or even lack of basic needs met, now they do not die as often from these things. So if they ask, they may lose their access to the kids and in their opinion, it is the kids care that matters most.
“Define “spending it on the children.†Built any buildings lately? Since adoption, my #2’s SWI built a new facility using money from families and money that was fundraised by the director. Its awesome—huge green areas to play in, nice building, lots of room.”
“Spending it on the children” = food, medical care, surgery, clothing, heat, staff to take them out to play on the wonderful new green areas, therapy, toys…
Not fancy new buildings and lush green lawns with fancy ponds that only offer an outward appearance of doing a good job and extra space that may not be used. It is what happens on the inside that matters and judging by the amount of issues many of the children still come home with (AD, trauma, neglect…) the pictures of new buildings are just not telling the whole truth in many cases.
I would much rather see the kids living in older buildings and being held by more staff and taken for walks on concrete if it meant they were getting out more.
A lot of what we see is about show and not about the actual internal workings.
Anyone can show you a beautiful picture of a beautiful home, how do you know that the child in that home is getting his or her needs met? Usually looking at the child, watching that child function, listening to the child, is how you know. Not by the picture of the pretty house.