China’s One Child Policy
There has been a lot of discussion about various news articles recently published about the one child policy, and for the most part I’ve stayed away from the subject.
There are two reasons I’ve stayed away, the first being that it’s a very complex issue and there is no way to say whether doing away with it would be a good or bad thing for China or the world.
And the second is that it makes me very uncomfortable to hear people who are in the process of an adoption freak out about the news stories. China should do what is best for her people, and the idea that people might want this kind of policy to stay in place in order to make sure babies make it into orphanages is just mind staggering. It makes my heart hurt. So, I’ll stay away from that and go back to my first reason.
Let’s look back in history for a bit to understand why the policy was put in place to begin with. After years of food shortages and people literally starving to death, the country was finally able to feed most everyone. But the government looked ahead and realized that if families continued having lots of kids that in another decade or two there would (again) not be enough food to feed everyone. Realize that in the late fifties and early sixties it is estimated that between 20 and 43 million people in China died of starvation. In some areas one out of every four people died of starvation. Imagine 16 of your friends and family, with four of them dead to starvation and you perhaps not far from it. Can you imagine how scary it would be to have the money to buy food but no food available to buy?
So, in the late 70′s when the one birth policy was put in place, it was done so in part to keep the population from exploding back to what it had been when there wasn’t enough food to feed everyone. This is a bit simplified of course since there was more at work during the famine than just population, but it’s a complicated subject and I’m trying to do this in a blog post and not a book.
If you’ve visited China then you know that there is plenty of food now. Well, there may be some shortages right now because the winter storms disrupted the crops, but in general terms, if you have the money to buy food, there is affordable food to buy.
It has been my experience that most Chinese people understand the reasons for the one child policy. I say this based on conversations I’ve had with them. They are sad that they are only allowed one child, but they understand the reasoning for the policy and they are not bitter about it. Many of them appreciate that it has kept the country from going back to the days of food shortages and say that it is necessary, even though they are sad that they can’t have more children.
But now the government is having to deal with a reality where there are enough people who can afford to pay the fines for more than one child that it has become noticeable. And those who can’t afford to pay the fines are crying foul. I’ve seen it myself, the fancy hotel elevator with the well dressed family that has three kids. Walk around the areas where the rich shop and you’ll see families with more than one child. But go out into the countryside and you will mostly only see families with one child. Now there is some bitterness, where there was not before.
The government is looking for a solution to this, and has begun putting political pressure as well as the threat of fines to keep their wealthy people limited as well.
And, they are starting to put out hints that they are reconsidering the law. But I really don’t see them doing that any time soon. And even if they do change it, my guess is that there will still be restrictions in place, they’ll just loosen it even more than it has already been loosened. It hasn’t been the “one child policy” for a long time. First, it’s really the “one birth policy” since twins and triplets are okay. And second, there are now many ways to legally have more than one child without paying fines. In some areas if your first child is a girl you get one more chance, though if your first child is a boy then you are done. Also, two only-children parents are allowed to have two kids, no matter the gender of the first.
But, back to our discussion of the ramification of taking the one child policy away. Let’s shift directions.
Think about this: There are almost as many honor students in China as there are students in the U.S.
In 2005, there were 74.9 million children under age 18 in the United States (source)
In 2005 there were 352.7 million children under age 18 in China (source)
If you figure the top 20% of the population are the honor students, then China has 70.6 million honor students. I’ll say it again: There are almost as many honor students in China as there are students in the U.S.
To further think about this, then realize that China has around 14 million college students (source) and in the U.S. there were 15.9 million people in college in 2004 (source). They have almost five times as many kids as we do, and yet almost the same number attend college. I’ve been told that it’s harder for a Chinese student to make it into a relatively unknown college in China than it is for an American student to make it into Harvard in the U.S.
Now let us look at arable land.
As of November 2005, China had approximately 122 million hectares of arable land, covering 13 percent of its territory. This amounted to 0.27 hectares per capita, less than 40 percent of the world per capita average, one-eighth the U.S. level, and one-half the Indian level. (source). According to Google conversions, 122 million hectares = 301.5 million acres.
The United States had 470 million acres of arable land in 2001 (can’t find anything more recent) (source).
China has less arable land than the U.S.
Are you beginning to understand the problem here? If China’s population starts exponentially increasing then in todays global market we will be looking at worldwide food shortages. Under Mao’s reign they didn’t look outside the country for food. But in today’s market they’d get it from wherever they could, at whatever price it was offered.
I’ve tried to give you an idea of the population disparity. How crowded China is. Without seeing it for yourself, it’s hard to get it across. When trying to explain what it was like to go to a market in China I told my mom it was like a store in the U.S. the day before Christmas. Every day. And the traffic? Like the traffic around the mall the day before Christmas. Every day.
The Chinese government will do what is best for China. The one child policy is harsh, and cruel and sad. But the alternative could (in the long run) also be harsh, and cruel, and sad.
As I said, I haven’t talked about it because it is a complex issue. When I think of the individual people I know in China then I’d love for them to be able to have a huge family. But, when I think of the overall effect of this happening across China, I’m actually pretty glad I’m not the one making that decision.
The equitable decision would probably be for the rest of the planet to also be responsible with how many children we bring into the world. But I doubt that will be happening any time soon. And, again, I’m glad I’m not in a place to have to make such a decision.
March 11th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Thank you Rumor Queen. This is so well written! I will print this and save this in a scrap book for my daughter so she can understand the reasons behind the One Child Policy when she gets older.
March 11th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
That was very, very well put, RQ. Certainly, the policy is harsh, particularly on women and on female children. However, I do wish the rest of the world would find a humane way to control their population, in order to make a decent place to live for the children and people who live in this world for generations to come.
March 11th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
I found China astounding, amazing, and wonderful in many ways, but one of the most astounding aspects of China to me was the overwhelming crush of people. Your typical average town in China is a million people plus. The city where we adopted my DD is about the same size as NYC, yet very few people in the U.S. have even heard of it. When we drove out in the countryside, we could see people everywhere in the fields, on the streets, in the distance on the hills.
I am also old enough to remember hearing about starving people in China, eating grass. I can remember when the very first Chinese grad students came from the mainland (I was a grad student then). These students were all older and could remember the food shortages well. They supported the one child rule (which was new at the time) because they knew what the alternative was.
March 11th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Thank you for this explanation – it is very well put.
I will forward it to my family – it explains things much better than I have been able to on my own.
EA
LID 6/06 & waiting:)
March 11th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I am also old enough to remember the news articles about the rate of starvation in China. As a child, I remember parents saying to their children when they would no eat their dinner, that there were starving children in China who would love your food. As a child, I thought it was a ploy to get us to eat. As I approached my mid teens, I realized what a horrible problem this was for a country so far away. China has come so far in the last years. Keeping their citizens fed must be uppermost on their minds. The one child policy was started to protect their people, not supply the rest of the world with babies to adopt. As it has turned out, this policy has allowed those who have wanted a family to be able to adopt their children, for which many of us will be forever grateful. Thank you RQ for keeping this community on track on the issue of forming families through IA adoption.
March 11th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I think the point is that I can’t blame people for feeling scared and nervous after hearing news stories and rumors on the internet. NOONE want to see abandoned babies. But if this didn’t happen, there would be no babies for those of waiting right now. We have our hearts and souls invested in these adoptions. All of us would be crushed if IA would be stopped. For those of who are infertile, adoption is our only choice if we want a child. I just read today how the U.S. published a report about repression and torture in China. Everytime I hear this, I get nervous. I hope some day people are allowed to have more than one child. I hope people have more freedoms and can live a better life. Botttom line, I want my baby home. I want her to be proud of her birth country and I want her to feel loved.
March 11th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
When explaining things to my daughter, I also found it important to explain why many families need to have their one child be a son rather than a daughter, which I never knew. It isn’t just a preference or belief that boys are more valuable than girls. For some, it’s a matter of survival.
It was explained to me that in China, there is no Social Security system in place or other programs to support the elderly. It is up to the son to take care of his parents. A daughter is expected to go with her husband and take care of his parents, while her parents are left alone. Has anyone else ever heard this?
It was also explained to me that should a family choose to keep a second child, the child is denied schooling, medical care, etc. Can anyone confirm this?
March 11th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
This is an excellent explaination and great to copy and give to family when they ask questions about the one child law.
We were in a touristy part of China (Hangzhou) to receive our son, so we saw families from many parts of China in our hotel and public places. I commented to our guide how many families had more than one child and saw TONS of little girls, which made my heart sing. People really do keep their daughters when they can.
She mentioned what you said here about families being able to afford fines. She also stated that the rule differs for the China majority ethnic groups in certain areas…if they have a girl, they can try again for a boy, but if they have a boy first that’s it. Minority groups in certain areas can only have one, period. Our guide was newly married, and I asked her if she plans to start a family. She waited until we were out of the car and whispered to me “yes, and we will save to afford a fine in case we have a girl first.” Later she asked that I not tell our agency that she told us that. I was thinking maybe she is told not to discuss 1-child laws with clients.
Our son is from a wealthy town (Wenzhou) and his orphanage is almost all SN’s and older children… I’m sure this is becoming more common as the economy changes in many parts of China, leading to the situations we’ve seen with SN’s being referred as healthy, and the SN program changing. I’ll be glad when the laws change and the kids can stay with their families, regardless of the circumstances. I know that may be a controversial stance (and easy to say when my child is home now), but I think we all need to lean that direction vs. celebrating when a baby boom happens or getting mad when laws change in the favor of China’s families.
March 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Just thought I would share. Last month our agency had a get-together with the agency’s in-China facilitator, who is from Guangzhou. (It was her first trip out of China at all, let alone to the United States. She was fairly amazed). At any rate, she reports that the one child policy does not apply to Chinese people who adopt a second child from an SWI. In other words, there would be no fine for one-child famlies who choose to adopt their second child.
March 11th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
I generally agree with your points RQ and with the conclusions. I will just say that I doubt that, even with no population control at all in China, that there is any risk of a “world wide” food shortage. World food production has consistently increased at a faster rate than world population growth over the past 40 or so years. There is an incredible amount of food produced now that is never consumed. That isn’t to say that there won’t be continued local shortages of food or that there aren’t other serious worldwide environmental consequences of unconstrained population growth. Am just saying that there is no reason to believe that there would ever be a problem feeing everyone.
March 11th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Very eloquently stated. Thank you for a wonderful post RQ.
March 11th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Thank you for answering my questions. This make it better to understand.
Littleperson647
LID 11-23-07
March 11th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Windthrow, you are correct at the amount of food that gets wasted globally. (And you thought we’d never agree on anything.)
If most of China is in favor of only having one child, why make it law to insist everyone do it? Only a small percentage would have more than one child if this were really the case.
As to why there were shortages in the first place was also due the policies of throwing out the technology that would have helped farm production and reassigning work among the people.
Just prior to all this – the wealthy practiced polygamy. Talk about shooting up the population exponentially!
March 11th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Thanks RQ…after reading so much about the massive starvation that occured in the 50′s in China, and then again during the cultural revolution, I have to tell you I can understand why the one child policy was put into place in the late 70′s. A drastic measure to ensure that the population would not have to face starvation again..this is not to say that I think the world is in the same place where it was 30 or so years ago…or that I agree with the ihow of the implementation of said policy..but rather to acknowledge I can understand the original ‘why’ of the policy…
March 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Windthrow, do you know why corn prices have gone up so much?
Because so much of it has been redirected towards fuel. There can only be so much corn grown, and now that some of it is being used for fuel, supply and demand has kicked in and prices have gone up. This means the price of much more than corn has gone up – pork because the pigs eat corn, bread because corn is in bread, tortillas because corn is in tortillas. But there has also been a snowball effect so that wheat prices have gone up since some are trying to use wheat flour instead of corn flour.
Our food supply isn’t as solid as you seem to think it is. It’s decently solid, but not incredibly solid. And people who know about such things tell me that a population explosion such as would happen in if the one child policy were suddenly done away with would lead to food shortages and astronomical prices for what did manage to make it to the stores. Not next week, not next year, but certainly within a decade.
In recorded history there has never been this many people on the planet. Do some reading and you’ll discover that there are many who do foresee a time when we will have so many people that it will be impossible to grow enough food to feed everyone.
March 11th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
RQ…am a bit disappointed that you would think I would make the statements I did on this issue without doing a significant amount of research :-). I am well aware of the issues you raise and lets just say I am unconvinced. We will just need to agree to disagree on this issue.
Cheers
March 11th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I have to agree with RQ on this issue Windthrow, though I appreciate your take on things. I agree that world production of food is up dramatically, but I think we are seeing lots of early warning signs that food production will be an issue in the not so distant future ie global warming, environmental pollution etc all are likely to contribute to this (I know that you acknowledge this). I don’t think we can know for sure what would happen in terms of GLOBAL food supply if the one child policy were removed in China, but I think we can be pretty sure what would/could happen in the countryside in China…massive starvation. The results of the cultural revolution and the earlier massive starvation in the 50′s in China show me that population controls were necessary….it is a different ball game now…and I am not sure if you have ever been to China and seen the extent of environmental damage that has been done in many provinces…but i have ….deforestation has wreaked havoc on agriculture in north and western China…too scary for me to even put into words…an increase in population for China in my mind would leave to catastrophe’s that I do not even want to think of…
As always…respectfully CTG
March 11th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
My 5 year old has a fairly good grasp of the one-child policy and the reasoning behind it (they want people to not have too many babies so that there is enough food and water and houses for all the people). I don’t see this policy going away any time soon. While food may not be an issue right now, water certainly is. Farmers in some regions of China can’t get enough water to keep their crops alive. Many are being forced to grow corn rather than rice because corn needs less water (and is a lot less profitable). And this water crisis isn’t just in China. In Georgia (among other states), they are quickly running out of water. It’s gotten to the point where the state legislature is trying to get the state border moved a mile north to give Georgia access to the Tennessee River. RQ is right – the world’s population is really starting to tax our natural resources. Between that and global warming, well, we may soon be facing catastrophic shortages of both water and food.
March 11th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Oh don’t get me wrong CTG…I was busy defending the one child policy in China and supporting the idea of population control in general fairly recently in the forum. I think kms and I were on opposite sides of that debate :-).
I just think history has shown that our ability to increase food production is pretty impressive. Yes times are a-changing, but my sense is we are still a long way from hitting the ceiling on this one.
Again…that isn’t to say that there wont be continued issues with respect to local famine, food distribution, etc… in many parts of the world.
March 11th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
okay, things have gotten really heavy today. I needed some perspective…so I went to the Babies! page. Hee hee hee, a huge smile is now over my face. I love these little babies!!! Congratulations to all those getting ready to bring their children home, and a huge cyber hug to those with a long road ahead of us. Anyone else feeling stressed…go to the Babies! page :) :) :)
March 11th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Who are the “people who know about such things”? It seems that there are facts on both sides and a great deal of passion as well. People speak of the enviroment like others speak of their faith. This frightens me to put it bluntly.
I could speak of the other side of things, not using food sources as energy, etc.. but that would start an arguement.
I last heard cows are more a threat than man with breathing and gas from their waste. I like beef too much to have their numbers reduced. Yum!
March 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
It still overwhelms me thinking about how many people are in China. When I went last summer, I was amazed to see so many people everywhere. Main roads were shared with cars, motorcycles, bicycles, and pedestrians….all at the same time. If there was a need for China to look outside itself to get food, the people in the countryside would never be able to afford it. My daughter was found in a park in China where the surrounding area was severely impoverished. They could barely feed themselves now, how would they be able to feed themselves if food had to come from somewhere else?
March 11th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Yes, Windthrow, we are for the most part on opposite sides on this, but that’s what makes a discussion. I believed it did make folks uncomfortable though. I recall moderators asking we get back to the topic. Nice to see the discussion up again. Every time it’s back in the “news” us IA parents are “required” to explain our take with neighbors, families, cowokers…… everytime there is something out there about China or adoption.
FindingHope has the right idea!
March 11th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
The world can currently produce enough food to feed everyone. It’s not necessarily an issue of production, but rather one of distribution. There are several regions (Most of North America and Europe, parts of South America, etc.) that have the capability (arable land) to produce sufficient food for all. But, unfortunately, properly distributing that food becomes problematic. Often, it’s a matter of logistics. Fresh food needs proper storage to be shipped long distances, which is expensive and the food may spoil before it gets to its destination. Other times, food is properly prepared and stored and shipped to areas in need, only to be confiscated by corrupt government and/or military officials instead of going to the general populace, or sits in warehouses spoiling and/or eaten by bugs and rodents waiting for customs to figure out what to do with it. In China during the 50′s and 60′s, the famines were partly due to increased population and partly due to inept communist regulations regarding agriculture and food production.
On other issues:
Lovemybulldog: “She also stated that the rule differs for the China majority ethnic groups in certain areas…if they have a girl, they can try again for a boy, but if they have a boy first that’s it. Minority groups in certain areas can only have one, period.”
Do you have this backwards? I thought the strictest policies were for the majority Han ethnic group, while minority groups have different rules, some even allowing more than 2 children.
Findinghope: “When explaining things to my daughter, I also found it important to explain why many families need to have their one child be a son rather than a daughter, which I never knew. It isn’t just a preference or belief that boys are more valuable than girls. For some, it’s a matter of survival.
It was explained to me that in China, there is no Social Security system in place or other programs to support the elderly. It is up to the son to take care of his parents. A daughter is expected to go with her husband and take care of his parents, while her parents are left alone. Has anyone else ever heard this?
It was also explained to me that should a family choose to keep a second child, the child is denied schooling, medical care, etc. Can anyone confirm this?”
I believe you are correct. I too have heard that if you have more children than authorized (you’re not among those approved to have 2 children, or you don’t wait long enough between births, or you are approved for 2 but continue to have more) then, yes, any “extra” children are not eligible for state funded education and medical care. That does not mean the child is left with nothing. China does allow private schools and private pay medicine. That child’s family would have to pay out of pocket for such services.
Also, I recently read that attitudes towards keeping girls are changing. Apparently it is now a status symbol in some areas if your only child is a girl, because you are publicly declaring that you don’t need a son to support you in your old age. You actually did what all smart people in our own countries should do, which is plan and save for retirement to support yourself, instead of relying on your children or government to do it for you.
March 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
luvbugsmom…I totally agree the issue with starvation in the 50 and 60s in China was due to issues related to government policies in china regarding industry and agriculture…so very true…
Windthrow..thanks again for your opinion..it seems we agree on most things…
Findinghope..thanks..you are right…
March 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I think we all should read the report that came out today on the internet. The US Gov has slammed China in regards to abusing human rights. In the artcle is mentioned about the “1 child policy”.
March 11th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
kms- You brought up the cows so I just had to put in my two cents in for those interested in the environmental effects of meat production. Wikipedia has a nice little blurb on it as well as the “flip side” of the story…since of course every opinion has its equal and opposite opinion. I, who would be a vegitarian if it werent for my love of beef stew and beef chop suey, have become more cautious in not wasting meat. I know my husband will never even come close to becoming a veggie but I can at least prepare our meals in ways that will not waste meat. Our friend who owns a meat packing company would not be pleased with me:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_vegetarianism
March 11th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Jenele – We should all be more cautious to not waste food. The farmers work hard to collect every grain of rice. There will always be people with less in the world, it’s insulting to waste food period. We could all do better on this.
March 11th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Coming from a guy’s perspective here…. The thing that really scares me is not the lack of food available in the future, but the amount of people that China will have related to their country’s resources vs. our ratio of people/resources here in the US. We’ve seen in the past, throughout time, that when these ratios are thrown way off balance this usually results in some sort of conflict. Not good.
Has anyone read the book (or seen the movie) Soylent Green?!?!? YUCK.
Matt
March 11th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Nobody has mentionned pollution … More people = more pollution and frankly, pollution is getting to be a big problem. There’s another population problem coming and it ain’t in China : INDIA … It’ll soon be the country with the biggest population …
Ray.
March 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Help, we have a big crisis here in Holland. We have a news program on television. And tonight they have shown that they found out children were sold in the province Hunan. It seems that thousands of children are involved over a period of several years. First indications of this scandal were in 2005. These children were taken away from the parents en sold to a foster home. Some people of the Dutch government want to stop adoption from China immediately! The whole government want to initiate proper research into the matter. And the minister who is responsible for adoption is going to make a plan. At this moment he is not willing to stop the adoption immediately. First he wants proper research. But next week they will talk further about it in the government. We are very sad about all this. We allready have a chinese daughter of 4 years old. And we have an LID of 01-11-06!! And we are hopefully next. We cannot believe that the adoption of the second will never take place. We are looking forward to our second, our daughter is also. This is a big drama for us. We hope that the future developments turn out well.
March 11th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
First of all that is a great post. The one thing that makes me sad and somewhat baffled is that a family can adopt a child and it does not “count” against them, but if the have a child they can not afford the fine for, they must give up that child, but could in turn adopt someone else’s child. Doesn’t 1+1 still equal 2. It seems sad they can not keep their own child, but could adopt one without penalty. In theory you could have a family give up a child, but turn around and adopt another. It seems they should be able to keep the one that was theirs to begin with. It’s all very complicated and I truly do understand that the Chinese government had to do something. It still makes me sad that these are the types of choices that people have to make, because I would be so, so sad to have to give up a child because I could not afford a fine.
March 11th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Ineke, I don’t understand. The Hunan scandal is not new. The people involved were convicted and have been in prison for almost 2 years now. Since this happened before we were LID, can anyone direct Ineke to blog posts about this?
March 11th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
kms – Yes, I agree with you one hundred percent. We all should be much better with wasting food. It kills me when we go to a resturant and I am given a portion that could feed at least three people. I often ask the waiter to omit side dishes that I wouldnt eat anyway…the waiter always looks at me like I am nuts. “But you are paying for it, it comes with the meal….” What does that matter if I am not going to eat it? Anyway…I am off my soap box now….
March 11th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Yes, the Hunan scandal is not new. But it seems to be more extensive than orginally thougth. Recent research by a Dutch television station showed new developments. According to research many more children and foster homes are involved than orginally revealed. This news was announced in a documentary on Dutch TV this evening and caused quite some upheaval in the government today. Because of this new news voices are sounding to temporarily stop adoption from China.
March 11th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
RQ—I agree with what you are saying and appreciate the time it took you to pull this data together. I think world wide food shortage is not that unrealistic. Two things that come to mind that are happening now are water shortages and the disappearing populations of honey bees.
March 11th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
i’m confused, scared en said. i also saw the programm tonight about the scandal. it shocked me when they said that some people off the goverment want to temporarily stop adoption from China. we have a LID aug 6th 2006.
i’m feeling really confused at this moment.
gr karen
the netherlands
lid aug 6th 2006
March 11th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
My heart is breaking for the Netherland folks awaiting referrals.
What are your agencies saying?
RQ – have you gotten any information on this?
March 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Thanks Karen for your reaction. It’s funny that we talk english now, we are both Dutch. But you are right. This is so scary for us Dutch people. It is possible that we cannot adopt anymore from China here in the Netherlands. I just wrote an email to the minister Hirsch Ballin. Maybe more adoption parents can do this. Just to show our feelings about this. I mean we are busy making the babyroom ready, our daugther is asking every day about our trip to China and her new baby brother or sister. And than suddenly everything is over and out?? We have a LID jan 11 06!! Is this happening to us? It’s feels like a very bad dream.
March 11th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Our agencies have to wait for the Dutch Government. It’s all in the hands of the Government now.
March 11th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
let’s cross our fingers and hope the government will not close the adoption. if so we will never have our ( first) child.
March 11th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Stopping adoptions in the Netherlands because of something from 2005?? That does not seem right. I was under the impression that this was taken care of long ago. I hope this does not happen. My thoughts and prayers are with you. It doesn’t seem right for a govt. to just “cut off”
adoptions and leave so many people who have been waiting heartbroken. If they do stop, they SHOULD let everyone who has started finish their impending adoptions. Keep us updated please.
March 11th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
I am also from holland and i have read on a dutch website that this will be an issue in Europe parlement. Two of the three agencies in the Netherlands wants that our governement will talked about this into the parlement of europe. So I think that this will be not only an issue for the dutch people who are in the procedure for adoption, but that it will become bigger. So It will also affects people in other countries.
If the programm on the dutch tv is true, than that will be really a problem if this is still happening in China!!! Than I think I do not want to adopt from China anymore. I do not want a child that is stolen from his parents for only money to fulfill our wish for a child!
Sorry for the bad englisch writing.
Helen
Lid 20-01-06 !!!!!
March 11th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I don’t post often but I just want to add that world food security is precarious. It’s by no means, stable. It’s a complex issue I know, but suffice to say that we’re facing peak oil as well as peak grains (as we did in the early 70s). The world’s grain reserve is dwindling rapidly and given the dramatic climatic and environmental problems we’re facing (drought in Australia is one example) it isn’t far off to predict wider global food shortages. The issue of water is central to this, as well as ethanol or corn production and beef production. Do we really want to be using arable land for ethanl production when we could be producing grains for food? Or, did you know that a grain fed cow consumes 21 pounds of vegetable protein for every 1 pound of beef protein and, as countries achieve wealth, meat consumption rises (China is a prime example of this). For the wealthy, food may still be affordable but it may come down to choosing food, fuel or meat. I fully expect food prices to rise over the next few years. Even in America where food prices are lower than anywhere else in the world. As for China, I’m sure they’re attempting to secure grain reserves just as most other countries are doing this year.
Let’s not put our heads in the sand over the issue of food – with or without huge population growth in China or elsewhere. And NO, GM food is not the answer! (but that’s another story)
Sorry to hear about the situation in Holland. I really hope that the Dutch government doesn’t suspend adoptions – particularly for you Karen – as you’re so close – maybe even next!
March 11th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
I have also sent a message to minster ballin with our feelings. I have asked him not to stop the adoptions until there is really hard evidence for wrong adoptions in China.
If there is hard evidence, I think everbody has to stop the adoptions form China. But I can not believe this, because the procedures are very careful.
greetings helen
LID 20-01-06
March 11th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Wow–so many topics to tackle. First, I will say that I’ve always believed the Chinese government is doing the best it can with a bad situation. Back in the day, China knew the US and Russia had better weaponry, and with Russia being at its door, it decided to overwhelm us with people. So women were encouraged to have large families. Well, that backfired, and now China is doing what it can to limit the unintended consequences.
Second, I think we are fine now with food supplies; but think what one dustbowl alone can do. I won’t touch the controversial subject of global warming since even professionals disagree on it, but I did notice a lot of pollution in China, and that can’t be good for crops. Too many mouths to feed adds to the problem. I believe someone eluded to the problem of war which can help alleviate the state of starving masses (as well as–unfortunately–help the gender imbalance) and redirect violence over a lack of food from one’s own government outward to other nations. It’s complicated, and I actually applaud the Chinese government for trying to control the problem just as I am appalled at many of the tactics used.
Lastly, the Hunan scandal is still under appeal. It seems clear that children were moved to Hunan Province and money was made, but it seems unrelated to ABDUCTED children. Still wrong, but not quite as heinous as it seems at first blush. Whether people helped parents abandon their children so they wouldn’t be left on a sidewalk instead or if parents were pressured into giving up their children or if people just made it be known they’d help a “problem” go away for a fee, it clearly happened. But I’ve heard nothing that leads me to believe any of the children involved in the scandal were actually stolen from their parents (which is so sickening, I can’t really fathom it).
Good analysis, RQ. It surely IS complicated.
March 11th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I must say that before I went to China I was very skeptical of their one child policy. I keep on thinking about individual rights. However, when I was there, it hit me like a ton of bricks. There just aren’t enough resources to go around if couples start having several kids. China’s cities are incredibly crowded. People are truly living on top of each other. Even water is a major issue. Anyway, it’s a sad situation for children that get abandoned, especially for the ones that do get adopted. When I look at my beautiful daughter, I believe that she is one of the lucky ones. Not because she is ours, but because she does get to grow up, and she gets to grow up with a loving family. My heart goes to the children who spend all their young years in orphanages or foster care.
Rachel, proud mama to Sophie (bio) and Margaux from FengCheng, Jiangxi
http://sophieandmargaux.blogspot.com/
March 11th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Anthropologist Jared Diamond has lots to say on this topic in his book “Collapse”. “Gun’s Germs and Steel” is an impressive piece of work also. There are 3 chapters in “Collapse” that were instrumental in convincing me to pursue international adoption (10, 11 and 12). They cover Rwanda, Haiti and China.
One of my recollections is that there are not enough resources on the planet for everyone to consume at the rates we do in Canada, Western Europe and the US. This is a situation that will continue to get worse. Diamond also presents some information that supports Windthrow’s case (food production often increases faster than anyone predicts) but time and physical space will ultimately be the determining factors.
I love that we have a place to have such discussions. Thanks RQ!
Dave
LID Apr/2006
March 11th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Hi all. We are living in Beijing for the month of March (and my security word is Beijing!). We were here for 3 days for our adoption trip, but it was in a fancy hotel and I was pretty sick most of the time, we didn’t get our luggage until right before we left and so on. So basically we didn’t see much of it. Then we flew to Nanchang to meet our DD and that city was as big as some major US towns and no one has ever heard of it (just like other posters have said).
We have been here a week and a half now and I am getting used to it, but the press of people is just shocking! At the subway they have employees by the doors of the major stops that just push people in so the doors will shut and the train can get going. The grocery store is jammed like it’s the day before Thanksgiving EVERY single day. We are living in an apartment building on the corner of a major intersection and the gridlock is crazy from 7 am – 9 pm. Horns honking for 14 hours straight every day.
One thing I have noticed is that there are lots of girls high school and college age around here. But when I take my DD to the playground or park they are dominated by boys. The 12 and under crowd everywhere we go is boys, boys, boys. Our apartment building is next door to a bright, shiny new primary school and at recess – you got it – almost all boys. It’s a 4 story , 2 building school. This is the disparity that people are talking about with the next generation not having enough girls for marriage and that sort of thing. That is what scares many critics the most, because it leads to civil unrest and conflict.
But we are loving being here and experiencing the culture in a way that is not possible all the time on an adoption trip because you are traveling in a big group and going to all these assigned places where most people speak English :)
March 11th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Helen and Ineke…hang in there..hopefully the information is old news (don’t get me wrong, I think it was a bad thing)…the Hunan scandal resulted in some severe penalties for the people involved in 2005….I would hate to think that your government would jump to conclusions without concrete evidence; and only based on one television show.
March 11th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Chicken Little here, “THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!”
There are A LOT of things we need to be more responsible for but the number of children we have is personal. Do we want the government in our bedroom? NO!
There are a great many factors I am sure. I think we need to be careful not to become so afraid that we would rather have population control instead of more responsible citizens and creative solutions. I could go on. I respect your explanation. RQ, but it is flawed thinking to try to determine who lives and who doesn’t. That is what it comes down to in the end. You know that many of China’s children are aborted and are not put up for adoption. That is the saddest part not the abandonment.
OK, I’m ready for the hate mail :)
March 11th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
There was a link to a story on MSNBC.com stating that China has decided to not change their “one child” policy at present and will likely not change it for 10 more years. I would have put the link here but lost it. Thanks.
March 11th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
here is the link to the msnbc article
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23562016/
March 11th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
I just checked out a great dvd from the library called debt+life (I think) It was about the effects of globalization on Jamaica. I was soooo depressed and I think the worlds food problems are about to become so much worse because of politics. lets hope humanity can rise to the occasion.
March 11th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
From a historical perspective, it is actually necessary to go back even further to really understand this situation. After the war which ended with the Communists kicking out the Nationalists, the population was pretty devastated. So Mao made a policy saying that any mother who gave birth to *ten* children would be able to come visit him in Beijing where he would honer her personally. Guess what happened? The population exploded. And then they had to curb it only thirty years later. This cycle of reactionary policy is really at the heart of the problem. I would recommend reading Mao: The Untold Story by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday if you would like to know more about Mao’s policies and their long lasting impacts on Modern China.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:43 am
There it goes again each time I settle my conscience that I am doing the right thing to adopt from China the doubt sets in.
2.5 years into the process including getting papers to China with sept 2006 LID.
I sincerely hope that there is no new evidence of the Hunan scandal being bigger than first thought .
I desperately would love to be a first time Mum, but not at the expense of another mother losing her daughter to a kidnapper.
I know we cannot have guarantees that all children in China put up for adoption were not trafficked but I need to know that I am not part of the problem.
Can anyone convince me that our consciences are totally clear, and that what started out as “The right thing to do ” has become part of the problem.
I dont want to upset or offend anyone, and much as I dread the journalists digging things up that I dont want to have to think about I cannot brush it under the carpet. If ther is a problem in the Netherlands it will affect the rest of Europe .
March 12th, 2008 at 6:02 am
Can anyone from the Netherlands please give some information about the documentary that is causing problems. I have been searching on the web for news
March 12th, 2008 at 10:05 am
I’m always impressed with how clearly and eloquently you offer information, RQ. Thank you for continuing to report on all things adoption-related.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:51 am
RQ, got this one right on the head. Its a real challenge for China to feed 1.5 billion and they have to step very cautiously. Relying on food from other countries isn’t going to be on top of their list I do not think. Internally China can not hope to feed its masses on its own either. Polution levels in the countires water supply scares me along these line as well. Will this polution force China to buy more and more food from abroad? As RQ said there has to be polulation control in China but it will adjust and twist and bend over time to suit the needs of its people and its country. Nice job RQ.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
China’s top population official has ruled out any drastic change to the family planning policy, including the one-child rule, for at least the next decade. The report states that China is in a 10 year borth peak period.
Please read the article here:
http://www.china.org.cn/2008-03/10/content_12100696.htm
If that link doesn’t work you can find it at http://www.china.org.cn under the title “Population policy will stay for now”
Gregg