Some Clarifications
My post about the one child policy was designed to show that there are no easy answers, and that things are not as black and white as some of you seem to think. Do I like the policy? No, of course not. Do I understand why it is in place? Yes. Do I agree with the way it has been (and sometimes still is) enforced? Absolutely not.
My purpose behind the explanations was to explain what I see many people obviously not understanding. And I do believe that we need to understand the reason the policy is there so we can explain it to our children.
As to the ways it is enforced and my use of the term “rogue official”, let me give this example: Forced abortions have been illegal for quite some time, and yet every once in a while reports of them still surface. When they do we generally either see an official get in trouble for doing it, or reports that there was an investigation and the women were lying about it. The odds are the women were not lying about it, of course. But my point is that forced abortions are no longer legal, and officials who do it anyway are becoming fewer and farther between. When reports surface, there is an investigation.
The same thing has likely occurred with the story of the twins. The law says families can have more than one legal child per birth, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a rogue official trying to make his numbers better who hasn’t taken a twin and said “too bad, you get one kid, I’ll take this one and there is nothing you can do about it.” But that doesn’t mean that it is happening on a widespread basis.
I’m not downplaying either of these instances. The fact that it is happening is beyond horrible for the families involved. But my point is that if we have a rogue Sheriff in Sticksville Kentucky or Middle-of-nowhere Wisconsin who is running a house of ill repute and forces the prostitutes under him to have abortions if they end up pregnant, that doesn’t mean that the U.S. government condones either the house-of-ill-repute or the forced abortion.
Another thing that keeps coming up is that people keep assuming that babies are available for adoption because of the one child policy. But babies are available for adoption in the U.S. and there is no one child policy here. There will always be unwed mothers who aren’t prepared to raise a child. I think it is short sighted of people to assume that their child was abandoned because of the one child policy. GlitterGirl understands the one child policy, but also knows that we don’t know why her family couldn’t keep her, that it may not have anything to do with that at all. We’ve talked about some of the possible reasons and come to the conclusion that all we know for sure is that it wasn’t because of anything she did, because little babies aren’t capable of doing anything bad.
Next, as for possible corruption within China International Adoption, if any Americans out there have information about problems or corruption or just plain old inconsistencies, I urge you to go to the U.S. State Department with your information. The agencies aren’t equipped to handle that and I’m not equipped to handle that, but it is the job of the State Department to investigate just such things.
Do I think there is zero corruption in the world of China IA? Sadly, no I don’t. There are too many SWI’s without much oversight, and too many authorities in the provincial offices who stand to get rich off of corruption. So I’m sure that there are instances here and there of corruption. I don’t know any way around that, to be honest. All we as parents can do is report things if we see something that isn’t right and trust the U.S. State Department and the CCAA to investigate them and if necessary remove people involved who are taking advantage of a situation. The State Department is capable of realizing that a problem is restricted to a certain area and just shutting things down in that area but not countrywide until the problem is fixed. I don’t believe anyone should hold back on information for fear of closing the entire program down.
So, I’ll say it again, at this point in time I do not believe there is widespread corruption. I do not believe at this point in time that the entire program has these kinds of problems. The CCAA has worked too hard to make sure that doesn’t happen, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I will continue to believe that the vast majority of babies are abandoned and found as their paperwork says.
As I said before, I have some issues with the way the piece in The Netherlands was reported. I’m waiting for the story to be picked up and reported elsewhere by reporters that I can actually send an email to and have some questions answered. I’m not saying that I’m positive there is nothing to it, I’m just saying it smells fishy and I’m not prepared to begin stressing over it just yet.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Hi RQ,
You are a wise and postive Queen. Thank you for keeping things in perspective.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Thank you for your posts today, RQ.
My favorite thought is that the CCAA has worked very hard to maintain an upstanding (and outstanding) IA program.
I agree! Kudos to the CCAA for their hard work.
Sincerely,
Hopeful :)
March 13th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Agree – I think the CCAA should be commended for running the most stable, consistent and relatively transparent program out there for more than a decade. I also think they work hard to correct problems. My take is that the brouha of recent days is media sensationalism and old news. I don’t think that, at this point, we should continue to promote this via lots of chatter and worry.
LID 3/14/06
March 13th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I’m always surprised how some in the China IA Community seemingly *Want* to find problems, and continually cast Themselves as the Bad Guy…
…Would someone please explain this to me?
I see it time-and-time-again here and on other forums.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
I’m always surprised how some in the China IA Community seemingly *Want* to find problems, and continually cast Themselves as the Bad Guy….
….Would someone please explain this to me?
I see it time-and-time-again here and on other forums.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I agree. It seems they like to stir the pot and at the same time offer nothing useful. Busy-bodies with too much time on their hands.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
I agree. Some people seem to love stirring the pot and at the same time offer nothing useful to the discussion except hysteria. I call them busy-bodies with too much time on their hands.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Finally…..something to agree on. The CCAA has only been trying to the best they can…for whatever reasons..to fast…or too slow referral rates..we have to keep the perspective that they are NOT the “baby” broker and hold their main concern to be the best for children. It’s not about US..And has never been..I think the sooner we can realize this..the easier the wait will be…Patience…
…LID March 17, 06 ( soon 2 yr wait)
March 13th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Thanks for all the information on this RQ. My view is that if you really wanted “all” the information on the who, what, where, when and why of your childs background, family, reasons for abandonment and so on – international adoption is not the route you should have gone down. At least from China that is – I am not completely sure how all the other countries work.
The truth is that there is corruption everywhere and to place guilt upon yourself NOW for something that you can’t possibly know the answer to is a horrible way to live. And over time that guilt will spread to your child in some form or another.
Don’t think I am trying to dismiss the horrors of what has happened to many families in China or other parts of the globe for that matter. Child slavery is going on around the world and most people ignore it because it’s “just kids” and it’s “not our country”. My point is that you can’t live your whole life wondering if you child was stolen or sold or whatever. They are your family now and it’s your duty to care for them, not second guess the match you received from the CCAA.
March 13th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
p12: I think some of what you are seeing is guilt and shame that comes with being an adoptive parent, feeling that I am contributing to a system I know little about, driven by my need to be called Mommy. I have been involved with adoption, either China or domestic, since 2005 and I feel I have resolved those feelings. But I certainly had them in the beginning, and I assume I’m not the only one. For me, the guilt and shame started with infertility and spiraled out of control when I started hearing from adopted adults who feel very conflicted and in some cases downright hostile toward adoptive parents and the system that is driven by our wants, our dollars. Now I have been on the roller coaster long enough to have heard more perspectives, and I am at peace. Finally I can say I do not feel like the bad guy. I would not want to push that guilt and shame onto my daughter’s shoulders.
Best,
Patti
Celia, 15 months
LID: 3/21/06
March 13th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Thanks Patti, that finally makes some sense. Ironically many feel their open expressions of guilt makes them better adoptive parents…but may actually cause more harm to their children in the future.
By the way, we have close LID’s … ours is 3/23/06
~Paul
March 13th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
I appreciate all of RQ’s info, but I’m a bit offended by the “Sticksville” KY comment. As a Kentuckian, I will advise you that very little of Ky would qualify as “sticks” any more. Not sure what state RQ represents, but it is unlikely that that state is all urban & modern. I’m just really tired of the impression people seem to have of Ky. Many of us are highly educated, bright, kind, interesting & compassionate people.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
I pulled Kentucky and Wisconsin out at random.
Gee, where is my blue square.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:18 am
People deal and react to situations in their own individual way, why can’t we all just respect that? We don’t all have to agree with each other. By all having differing views we can hopefully pick what sits comfortably with us.
For me I want to make my decisions in life based on what is right for me, Let us support each other, not criticize just because we can’t all see things exactly the same.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:40 am
people will react to situations in their own way, that is their right
Some have to work from their worst nightmare e.g. closure of programme to the very best outcome e.g. everything will be fine
some won’t want to face that there may be a problem.
Let people deal with this in their own way.
Just because it is not your way, does not mean it is the wrong way. Criticsm of each other, especially commenting about parenting abilities serves no good at all.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:33 am
RQ – You could have said Sticksville, Ohio. That’s where I live! :)
March 14th, 2008 at 7:19 am
I have some questions about the one child policy. If an individual in China has a second birth that is not allowed by law and they cannot afford to pay the fine, what happens? Does the government take the child? Could there be a lot of children in orphanages that are not abandoned, but taken from their parents for disobeying the law? If abandonments are down, could it be that people are just ignoring the law and seeing what will happen? Ok I probably have more questions, but I’ll stop here. Could someone direct me to a place where I can find the answers?
March 14th, 2008 at 8:09 am
RQ-
Thanks again for keeping up on all of this. I don’t know how you do it with two little ones by your side. I only have one, and I can barely get us to work in the morning!
By the way, for anyone who was looking at our blog, we’ve deleted it. The poor family whose YouTube footage was illegally used in that documentary really scared me. No more info or photos of our children online.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:15 am
I am trying to post a comment, but it does not seem to be going through. any help?
March 14th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I’m also from Kentucky and I wasn’t offended. I’m as protective and proud of my state as the next girl, but I think it’s also possible to get *too* sensitive. RQ also said Wisconsin, and it was fairly obvious she was just making a random example. She could have said Tennessee or West Virginia (no offense – just picking close neighbors!) and Kentuckians wouldn’t have batted an eye.
Back on topic, as someone who has waited 7 years and has 3 more before I can even start my paperchase, one of the things I am counting on is the stability and long-term reliability (such as they are) of the CCAA. Of course stories of corruption are scary, especially when they threaten – in reality or perceived – to slow down or shut down the program. But I agree a lot of this seems like old news and sensationalism during the Olympic year.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:32 am
RQ -
Have not commented in some time since getting home from China with P3 but have been reading all along.
This post reminds me of why I started reading your blog in the first place. You really do a great job of stating the facts as best you can, trying to keep an even keel and simply writing it all in a well written format. Kudos once again.
Thank you also for sharing a bit of your discussion with GG regarding how she arrived at being ready to join your family. Before our adoption, I really studied the historical situation leading to adoption in China. Since being in China and bringing P3 home, I find I am focusing on trying to absorb an understanding of the social and cultural circumstances surrounding what leads to abandonment. A very complex subject to be sure, with many, many layers,. Something that will take possibly the rest of my life to hope to achieve, if then.
My point? Well, as complex a subject as it all is and as long as it will take for me to study, I do know this – as RQ so well stated, there will ALWAYS be the occasional bad story, ‘rogue agent’, corrupt official. Always. How much weight my family and I choose to give them, is well, up to us. I have learned I have much less time, strength and energy for many things now as it is happily spent elsewhere and many things have either taken on less importance or had to go all together. Worry over the rogue agents of the world is one of them – not ignorance or denial but the worry.
Thanks again and please keep on writing!!
Alyson of 3 P’s in a Pod
March 14th, 2008 at 10:15 am
I live in the sticks of Pennsylvannia. You may use that the next time you need a ficticous place to say so others are not offended. OMG what is going on in this world. We cant mention anything anymore without someone being offended. Thanks for everything RQ it is much appreciated.
LID 2/16/06
March 14th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Thank you, RQ for a well-thought out, well articulated series of conversations about recent events. I appreciate the time and effort that this takes, as a mom of four who also tries to find time to work part-time, volunteer part-time and blog in the midst of it all. My kids are older than yours, so I really find myself wondering how you get it all down in such an eloquent manner. Even as old as my kids are, I still feel like a babbling idiot most of the day :)
Thanks also for keeping us abreast of these issues, and presenting a wider perspective. We cannot possibly understand the way that their ancient culture impacts their current decisions. The Western mind/culture/philosophy, etc. is just so completely different from theirs. The best we can do is be vigilant to participate in improving things where we can and learning more about the “back story” of those things we truly don’t understand. And when we get these precious jewels in our arms and in our forever families, we raise them to know that they have incredible value and worth just because they are. And that they were created to belong to this family in which they are placed.
As I’m anticipating creating and providing that sort of loving atmosphere for my coming daughter, I find myself all to aware of the areas of my life where I am NOT loving generously or unconditionally. And where I am not valuing my current biological children as highly as I ought. It’s been a humbling journey, but one I am incredibly grateful for – and I believe that we will be a better family for it – all of it!
March 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
I watched BBC last night, and one of the reporters who was from Hunan went back there to see the changes.
There is indeed great wealth in China, much more than I ever expected. A factory Manager had a home that was the exact replica of Versaille Palace in France. He had several helicopters and the list goes on.
She visited with her family. Her Uncle has 2 sons, and both these sons were working in the city. He was taking care of their sons (grandchildren). All the family relatives that she visited had more than one child. Her family members said that the younger generation are leaving the rural areas and making good money in the city. It was very interesting.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
The minister of Justice in the Netherlands has send a letter to parliament today. It appears that the minister is carefull about making conclusions and nuances the former discussion. PFFFFH! I can stop holding my breath.
In short the content of the letter:
* acknowledgement of the seriousness of the situation IF it appears to be true
* however,according to the minister, the documentary gives a onesided view en no reaction of the CCAA
* the ministery has trust in CCAA en the work they have done since the Hunan schandal and has seen good progress in working with the Hague convention.
* the ministery will not take drastic steps now, but the minister:
* will request clarification at the CCAA
* will ask for new garantees/ prove in future adoptions for following the Hague convention
* visit from high level civil service to CCAA
* will request other countries in international adoption for further co-operation in these above steps
* will reply to parliament for progress 1 mei 2008
March 14th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Sorry for my vocabulary: not ‘trust’ but confidence or faith, and ‘en’ is dutch for ‘and’…
March 14th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Dear RQ,
here a message from Holland. Our Minister of Justice has send a letter to parlement. He seems to be in ‘our corner’.
Shortly en free translated:
he sums up the facts given by the journalists;
he has trouble with the fact that they didn’t hear CCAA in the matter (my interpretation bad journalism);
he will order an investigation, but emphasises the fact that in his opinion CCAA has improved the situation since 2005;
in fact that he has evidence out of first hand that in several cases CCAA has handled 100% conform Hague treaty and correctly;
that he has the impression that things have inproved overall in China since Hunan-incident;
that he won’t take other drastical further steps on the scarce facts given, but will wait for the reaction from China-officials;
he will send a high civil servant to China;
he will make contact with other officials internationally;
that stopping IA now would perhaps unnecceserley harm the good relationship with China;
he will inform parlement before firsth of May.
Pardon me for my bad English.
Will
March 14th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Sorry smiling lady,
in my hurry giving a free translation, I know see that you already did this (better).
groetjes,
Will
March 14th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Netherland Families,
I am so glad that level heads and common sense seems to have prevailed. I was thinking of you in your time of great uncertainty.
March 15th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
babysister – you should try living in NY :)
It is unfortunate that the good people of the Netherlands had to endure this on top of the already discouraging wait. I can certainly understand why you were concerned and glad that the Minister of Justice has put and end to the situation.
My DH came home last night and said he heard there was some trouble brewing in China. I said that’s odd, I haven’t heard anything. I searched on the Internet and CNN but it was when I came here I found the information about the rioting in Tibet.
I don’t know if this wait has completely desensitized me but I definitely don’t freak out like I used to when I hear about the US and China having strained relations. It seems like a game of chess to me and it has been happening for years.
Jo-Anne
2/28/06
March 17th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Smiling lady, It’s a bit to early to conclude that we can stop holding our breath! Parliament still has to decide (probably Tuesday) if they follow the advice of the minister. They can still decide tot put a direct hold to adoptions from China.
I hesitate to say I think they will follow the advice. Ik think, hope and believe that, but we can’t be sure.