China allowing two dossiers at once?
An agency is reporting that the CCAA is going to allow families with a NSN dossier in line to submit a second dossier for a SN child to be adopted while they wait for their original NSN LID to be referred.
Families must meet the new requirements in order to submit a LOI and dossier for a SN child, and in order to be able to accept the referral for the second child (that they applied for first) they will have to continue to meet requirements (income for the extra child, number of children in home, etc). There must also be at least one year between adoptions.
I’d like to get confirmation of this from another agency. This is pretty big news.
UPDATE: Two agencies now confirming this.
Second Update: The original agency now saying the CCAA has changed their mind and will not be allowing this after all. Nothing from the second agency who confirmed it yet.
Third Update: Two agencies are now saying it is possible, one saying the CCAA has just said they will no longer allow it.
April 8th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I take this as great news because it shows China’s commitment toward continuing international adoption. With the slowing of referrals, I was getting concerned of an eventual closing of the program.
I would doubt they would now allow this change if that were the case.
April 8th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I think that most of the people I know could not afford to do 2 China adoptions at once. Does this mean they are expecting for things not to get any better as regards to speeding up??
April 8th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
What is the waiting time these days for SN since so many people are going that route? I think it’s well over a year now with my agency since the line has become long there too.
April 8th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I’m being cynical here….but is this their way to help out the Agencies? I know many agencies are hurting because of the slow referral rate, and few new clients. This way the agencies could, as they say, go back to the same well a 2nd time.
April 8th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Hi,
Instead of the CCAA to try to accomodate or modify their regulation…they should concentrate on giving the babies to the one already logged in…. It seem to me that they just want more money ….
April 8th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
This would be wonderful news!
April 8th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Our agency stated this about a week ago, and said that if anyone is logged in with another agency NSN and wants to adopt SN with our agency that they can do that. Our agency is very conservative and will not state anything that does not come straight from the CCAA. We are very happy with our agency and are in the process to adopt our second SN child through them. I think that this is a great thing for the CCAA to do, and to me shows that they are commited to finding homes for the children. One of the hardest things I have seen, is when families were not allowed to switch agencies and to see how that affected the SN kids. Now it should help everyone that can do this.
April 8th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Well, if they do have a quota and only so many children are allowed out per month/year, this would make our NSN wait longer as SN gets referred faster.
April 8th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I wonder if you still can keep the same LID for the NSN child or if this one if modified.
LID 31 july 06
April 8th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Okay, I’m being petty and jealous and angry with myself for not qualifying under the new regs. The most important part of this is the children; and if families who qualify are allowed two dossiers at one time, twice as many children will be able to come home. That’s all that matters, and I know that. But I’ll admit to the ugly green jealousy monster that sits on my shoulder. It’s going to make me cry to see other families getting to bring home two babies while I wait a million years for my one. Am I the only one who secretly hoped that families switching to SN would shorten the wait for NSN? I’m a bad, bad mommy for even thinking such a thing. It’s supposed to be about the kids.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Our agency just sent a followup saying that the CCAA changed their mind and that they are NOT going to allow this. I am not sure but I think my agency was the source of the original information.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
That does sound like significant news but, based on the smattering of comments above, I’m confused as to what it would mean. Longer wait? Shorter wait? RQ, can you provide your perspectives on the potential implications of this when you have time. Thanks.
LID 3/14/06
April 8th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Personaly, I have difficulties with this news because it won’t help the backlog at all it will make it bigger! Why China would do such a thing? Our wait for our NSN child will increase for sure if this is true. :o( sigh!
April 8th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
I’m being cynical here … but is this their way to help out the Agencies? I know many agencies are hurting because of the slow referral rate, and few new clients. This way the agencies could, as they say, go back to the same well a 2nd time.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
I’m unsure why the NSN wait will increase if SN children are allowed to come home to waiting NSN families. The SN children are already out there on lists with IA files prepared. They are not taking away from the NSN process as I understand it.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
ChristineReal,
I am with you. I think they need to concentrate on the dossiers they have logged in. I am not too woried about this though. This would be very expensive. I have a feeling most middle class folks like us don’t have the funds to do this. Wouldn’t you need to pay fees all over again for the new child plus pay to keep updating the first child’s paperwork. Then pay the $5000.00 donation fee twice plus the cost of the trip. Sorry, even if we qualified, we couldn’t afford it.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I don’t think people are saying the wait would increase, just that they were hoping that if people that were NSN logged in switched to SN, that would make the wait shorter. So if now you can do both, it won’t shorten the time due to attrition.
I hope all the agencies begin to report this because it doesn’t seem fair to those who may have pulled their NSN dossier when they went SN recently. (We didn’t, we have always been SN so it doesn’t bother me)
April 8th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Finding Hope–
I understand your frustrations; I’m in the same boat. This news doesn’t help me at all.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I don’t know if this is good news or not?I guess for some yes maybe others no.Personally Being a lid of 8/07 I have been considering all options.My agency only does the lottery system for waiting children.So chances are slim.I would have to go to a new agency meaning new fees + a new dossier fee.I like the agency I’m with.I don’t know how this could help wait times.that means more review for the CCAA.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
This won’t shorten the wait time unless there is a SN reviewer group in China sitting around currently, twiddling their thumbs with no work to do. I don’t think that’s how the referrral system in China works. Also, the people who do this would need to opt out of the non-special needs group in order to expedite matters.
Unless both of the above are true, the time is not going to speed up.
April 8th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
wrigsassy, in fact if there is an annual number of referrals given per year including SN and NSN and if the SN portion is getting bigger in terms of referrals, then it will increase to wait for NSN people. And right now, it is also just by the fact NSN people are switching to SN (I have nothing against those who are doing this, just saying what seems to be a fact here).
April 8th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Hi all,
We were just emailed that we would need to pull our original waiting (6/30/06 LID) file in order to go SN. This was not true until today, seems there is some pressure at the CCAA regarding this program.
April 8th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Hi Everyone
Just looking for a bit of clarity on this. Our agency did not get the Hague Accred. so can we go with another agency for a SN adoption? Also do the rules mean up to age 55 for SN? that was my understanding when the rules changed. Thanks RQ for the news, it would be great for us as our agency does not have a SN list.
Shamrock
April 8th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Seems like perhaps a final chapter on the NSN program.
If they are only going to make available X number of children per year through IA, and now they could be close to 100% SN via this new option, seems to me like there’s no room for NSN anymore.
Anyone else have the same sick feeling??
I think more SN kids finding a family is a great thing, it just makes me sad for those of us who don’t have that option.
April 8th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
This doesn’t help wait times in any way. It can only do nothing or make both lines longer for everyone right now.
It doesn’t help any families close to referral time for NSN or SN. They would need to lose their “near referral” spot to do this, and really, to what advantage?
It doesn’t help find more families for WC from what I can see really: There is a line that takes nearly a year to get through for at some agencies for WC right now, and not everyone has the WC program as an option. Agencies are rapidly being added to the shared list WC program from what we’ve been told, so we have every reason to expect waits and interest in this program to trend longer, not shorter, as it becomes an option for more families. So I don’t see how a need for more families for children in the waiting chld program is the cause either.
What it would help is some US agencies and CCAA, who are not getting applications, and so are short on funds. They collect fees again. Maybe there is another reason but I cannot see what PAPs or children really benefit from this.
April 8th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I have been asking agencies about this since China allowed concurrent adoptions. Finally I sent a note to the CCAA. It appears they listened which is great! On the other hand we are self employed and had a bad year in 2007; So now we don’t meet the financial requirements. Oh well.
It does appear that there is a push on the SN children. I’m sure there will be many happy families out there. I wish all the families who can go for this option all the best.
And for people waiting on or working on concurrent adoptions with other countries, perhaps those wait times will go down as well.
Congrats to everyone that just got referrals!!
Oh, my agency mentioned that they are expecting priority referral in their next batch!
Hang in there everyone and God Bless!!
April 8th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Can someone please answer this question… Does China have a quota on how many babies can leave the country per year?? If it does, things have to slow down. It is only logical. Maybe they will have a new quota if one exists now. One for SN and one for NSN?? I doubt it though. It seems to me, that China is leaning to a SN program only down the road. I just don’t understand why they keep allowing more and more people to apply. This is upsetting to me.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Maybe they will drop the quota. But then even without a quota, things are moving at a snail’s pace.
I think it’s the beginning of the end of the NSN program. I think that if this is true, what is going to come next is the announcement that China will accept NO NSN applications anymore–those who are logged in as NSN will receive a referral, but after that, China will be SN only.
With a May 2006 LID, my feeling is that this could really lengthen the wait of those of us in line for NSN. If there is a quota, that means that myriad people could now complete another whole adoption while waiting for their second–and while the rest of us wait.
I know the goal of China adoption is to place as many children as possible. I’m sorry–I feel selfish and frustrated today.
I’ve not yet heard from my agency and I’m with one of the big China-only agencies. I’m interested to see how this pans out.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
After hearing China allowed concurrent adoptions, I must have contacted AT LEAST 7 agencies regarding adoption a SN child while waiting for NSN child. All said no accept one agency. They said their contact in China said it was ok. But I was a bit leary. So I wrote to the CCAA asking if they would consider the option. People are going to other countries for concurrent adoptions so why not open up china SN’s? I’m sure I am not the only one who pursued this.
Funny thing (well not so funny), is now we don’t meet the income requirements:( AND there are now LONG waiting lists for SN children with minor needs. So it appears it doesn’t work out for my family. Hopefully it helps another family.
If China is limiting and reducing the amount of children adopted per year, then I do believe that the wait will be longer for NSN. My opinion is that THAT IS THE PLAN.
Hang in there everyone and God Bless.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Sorry, that was unclear. I meant to write, “But things are already moving at a snail’s pace, so it might not even make a difference if the CCAA dropped the quota.”
I don’t know for sure, wait4ever, but I’m pretty sure there is a quota now.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Read ratgirls post above!
Our agency, who is more than likely the source of this information, just sent out a message to all clients that the CCAA has REVERSED their decision. No one (from this point on) will be allowed to have 2 dossiers in China at the same time.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Ratgirl says this is already “nixed”. Can someone please please clarify. How can the CCAA make such an inportant decision one minute and then change their minds?? Maybe becuse of what we were all just talking about. The wait is already soooo long. I think people should be able to do NSN or SN, not both. To clarify, it is not fair to those waiting for NSN. If anyone else has info, please write in.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Wait4ever
I contacted our agency and they had no details. We are in New Jersey. Has anyone in Europe heard anything?
April 8th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
RaisingArizona, thank you for sharing this.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I have read posts on the forum beginning several weeks ago from people who were pursuing concurrent China SN and NSN adoptions. And my agency stated that it was allowed just yesterday. I have a hard time believing that it is suddenly now not allowed. It is my understanding, though, that both China adoptions must be through the same agency (may be wrong though).
I guess I do not understand why some think this is not fair to other NSN waiting families. How does it affect us at all? The SN children would still be adopted and count towards the quota (if there is one) whether or not the adoptive parents were in line for NSN as well or not.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
If this would allow more children to have families: GREAT!!! But I don’t think so, I do believe they have a ceiling/quota for how many kids can leave China and if so, this would be a very unfair system. So much for grandfathering people in, in reality this would contribute to more of those who don’t fulfill the new rules to remain childless (or with no sibling) in the end. I usually think the CCAA are entitled to set any rules they want, but it really makes me angry that they first say one thing and the other minute something else.
April 8th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Raising Arizona,
Thank you for the info. I am really glad to hear this. I think it is only fair to get this backlog through before going to this kind of policy. Maybe someone at the CCAA thought the same thing. LID 1-2007
April 8th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
I haven’t read the other posts, but for each WC at our
agency there is at least 100 families wanting to petition for their children. I don’t see how this will hurry things along anyway. The program is different. I think the CCAA would be all over the place if they allowed 2 dossiers. Interesting to hear what other people are saying. The WC program has changed dramatically to when we adopted our ds.
I do know back in 2006 there were over 200 families wanting to adopt one particular WC.
April 8th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
WHAT A MESS!!! What this proves to me (the announcement, the reversal, the utter confusion regarding what the rules will be on any given day, one agency being told one thing, other agencies being told the exact opposite) is that CCAA doesn’t have any idea what they are doing. I think they’re all just running around taking orders from this person, then that department and trying to make sense of it on the fly. I guess they’re doing the best they can, it just seems like there’s nothing but massive confusion, constant changes and a myriad of competing interests at work.
I want off, I am nauseated.
susan
April 8th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Our agency is clear….its either one or the other. If you start NSN then you are not able to swap across to SN. As for doing both concurrently its a big NO.
Anti spam- mama. I am starting to wander if it will ever happen.
April 8th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Different countries are being told different things too. Why onm earth are they giving some countries so many options on adopting from China where other countries are being greatly limited. I kno wthis discussion has been held before & people stated CCAA had uniform regulations & it was the individual countries that barred certain activities. I know that my country has asked for the ability to swicth to SN, to get a Waiting Child program etc & has been refused by CCAA.
Why on earth are they trying to further overcrowd an overcrowded system?
April 8th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
I agree with Miss Miaow. It doesn’t make sense and would actually create a larger wait for those already logged in. The backlog would be incredible. They only allow a certain number of referrals a year.
April 8th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
My agency hasn’t said anything about this, which isn’t surprising. I emailed for info, which I probably won’t get. A leetle bitter about them, yes.
I think this is potentially great news for people with LIDs in 07-08–they’ve got such a long wait ahead of them, why not do your second adoption first if you are prepared to handle special needs? By definition, anyone logged in after 5/07 should qualify, right?
My totally selfish concern is that this will increase my wait time–my LID is 4/06.
April 8th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
How will this lengthen wait times?
April 8th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
……….I don’t about any of you…but one adoption is enough for us….We have never been through anything like this in our entire life…once we get our daughter home….we will NEVER do this again….our life and circumstances will not allow for another six years of our life to be tied up waiting, waiting , waiting, waiting and more waiting….
April 8th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
My large China only adoption agency told us we were LID in 07 for a NSN child and that we applied to try to get a SN child and if and when we are referred to a specific SN child and until we send in a LOI and get a LOA, that is when we are taken OUT of the regular NSN line, and not until or unless that happens.
That is the case with many if not all other agencies. THat is precisely why over 70ish families within my agency have also tried to apply for a SN child. You don’t get taken out of the NSN line until you get a SN referral that you accept.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
I don’t see why you would need to apply for a 2nd adoption when you are able to do this, according to my agency. You are not taken out of your LINE or WAIT for a NSN child until/unless you get a referral for a SN child.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Also, like in the Korea Olympics, during which IA adoptions went to a stand still, I think China is avoiding that by slowing down adoptions for their IMAGE until the Olympics are over and the WORLD’S EYES are no longer on them, then they go back to business as usual, which is their IA adoption program.
They must have all their orphanages OVER FLOWING with kids right now, since they are restricting the number of kids being referred for the last 1 year or so. That is probably the real motivation behind the DONATION RISE from 3 grand to 5 grand, they have too many kids coming into the orphanages and not as many kids going out anymore, therefore overcrowding, therefore need more money to pay to take care of these kids til after the Olympics, which is when they can start getting these kids out via IA.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see referrals being at a rate of 8weeks per month after olympics, b/c they are severally back logged with too many kids and behind in referrals.
April 8th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
I have a radical idea to improve waiting times for families in line. The CCAA should tighten up the rules in regards to the number of children already in the family. It seems there are lots of couples out there with no children, and a lot who desperately want a sibling for their only child. We are in the latter category. The only reason we are hanging in there (Lid March 07) is to give our 1st child a sibling. We are older parents and we don’t have a lot of extended family (we also don’t have any other country options). We don’t want our child to be alone when we are no longer here. If CCAA applied the rules to waiting families closer to what they do to their own population ie max 2 children, maybe referrals would gallop along. Spread the joy of parenthood around.
I also believe that the CCAA should close the door on new NSN applications because they are giving false hope to applicants. That would be a bigger statement to the world than minimal referrals each month.
April 8th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I do believe that there are still lots of children adoptable in foster care. So for those that are concerned about adding a sibling to their one child. I think that is still an option.
Just my two cents here.
We do have our own children. But wanted to adopt our baby girl from China. So we are here for the long run:)
And we wouldn’t qualify for SN. So this wouldn’t work for us. I just pray this wait speeds up for all of us.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:01 am
littleemporor my question is why are other countries out for you. If we go for number 6 it will be from somewhere that doesn’t have an age limit. We are reallllly older. Just curious not meant to be critical.
April 9th, 2008 at 4:17 am
Happy to give some more info, mtonkinson. Other countries are out for us because of the age limit or they are closed e.g Chile (50), Ethiopa (we are not allowed to adopt children out of age sequence ie older), India (45), Korea (closed) Thai (quota, WL for 2009 applications), Taiwan (45) and so it goes on. My husband turned 50 last Oct 7 mths after our file was LID. Adoptions in my country are controlled by gvt agencies not private agencies and whilst they are looking at other options e.g Vietnam (and there are questions on that program) in the world of IA there aren’t many options. And new programs take years to set up. We also are not allowed by the CCAA to start a WC program. SN have never been encouraged here (shame on our gvt agencies) but then we do have a slightly anti-adoption culture in our gvt agencies. We are also not allowed to have our file in more than 1 country. All up it is a battle.
April 9th, 2008 at 4:25 am
To: mtonkinson
Other countries are not an option for many people including me. I’m ruled out on a few fronts: no.1 is because I’m single, no.2 is because I’m now 46 & no.3 is because I’m from Australia & we dont have agreements with many countries for couples & moreso for singles. I’ve been trying to adopt for 10 yrs already (not all with China) & have now been LID for over a year with maybe another 5 or so years to go.
April 9th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Well, about people asking for European news about this. Our Dutch laws do simply not allow persons to do two adoptions at the same time, unless ofcourse you adopt siblings or triblings. You have to finish the first adoption, wait a year and after that you can apply for another permission to adopt.
So this is no option for us.
April 9th, 2008 at 8:01 am
I have been watching the news for the last month and in my opinion China has much greater problems right now(image wise) than their adoption program. To me this is the last thing that would be focused on.
April 9th, 2008 at 8:11 am
debrook2-
We seem to have a lot in common - single, I’m turning 45 today!!, and I’m logged in just over a year (Feb 07); so I know how you feel. I do, however, have another daughter (adopted from China in 2002), which I know makes my wait a little bit easier. My heart soooooo goes out to those waiting for their first.
Does Australia work with Ethiopia? That was the one other program I found that worked for my age, marital status, financial means, etc. If you ever find yourself looking for another option, Ethiopia was a really good one.
But, if you’re going to hang in with China, we’ll have to keep tabs on eachother. We’ll be getting our referrals around the same time (2012????)
April 9th, 2008 at 9:15 am
I have read dozens and dozens of times people calling out the “quota” and how SN adoptions cause a slow down in NSN because the quota gets filled up by the SN adoptions.
Where has anyone ever seen any thing official or even close to official about a quota? These comments fly around all the time but I don’t recall ever seeing anything to support it other than personal theories regarding the drop in the number of visas issues for adopted children.
.
April 9th, 2008 at 9:24 am
We have been looking at another country but that means starting another paperchase and dossier fees and a different fee schedule we aren’t prepared for.I think the Olympics will be a pivitol point for us.I imagine any speed up would be a gradual process.I would just like to see things moving in a more positive direction.It’s like the rabbit and the hare scenario.Do we move on to another country to speed things up (like the hare) or do we go with the turtle scenario-slow but true.It would kill me to jump out of line into another and see the turtle cross the finish line after all.
April 9th, 2008 at 10:08 am
This cocurrent adoption stance is just another confusing wrench to all the adopting families, So ok China wants to try and keep face for the world press with everything going on this year. But I wish the CCAA would at least put out a letter to all those waiting families saying what is what so that at last we know and can stop trying to second guess what ever is going on. It feels like such a cat and mouse game when all we all want to just to adopt a orphaned child. Our agency is on the SN online program, we noted what Sn’s we could handle and now we wait. I would thought that going on the SN list and all the manuvering by the cCAA to get these kids adopted that there would be more postings but I only hear about four or five kids at the monthly meetings with our group. And I read , here I think that if we step out of line to do a LOI for a SN kid that we may be subject to the new restricions which we may not make, so dammed if you do dammed if you don’t I’m exhausted
April 9th, 2008 at 10:17 am
If anyone is considering changing programs, I heard Russia is good and referrals are fast. I know you need to make 2 trips though. I know this is tough for everyone, but if we had a child or children at home, maybe this would be better. We have been waiting 8 years for a child, so this wait is torture sometimes. I think I had about 3 hours of sleep last night. This is the new norm. I wonder how many people have dropped out. Sometimes I feel like a selfish person, but it gets us closer to our baby.
April 9th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Wait4ever-
Is it selfish to feel that way? Maybe a little. But, you know what? You’re human. You just want the same thing that everyone wants, a home, a family, the next 50 years to watch your child(ren) grow and be happy; and there’s nothing wrong with that. Yes, I would love to say that I am only thinking of the children and that my needs and wants are unimportant. But it’s not going to happen. I haven’t mastered sainthood yet :o. And until I do, I’m going to want every single family in front of me to find their children and get the heck out of my way :) We’re all just human.
April 9th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Does anyone know how long it is taking to adopt from Ethiopia? We are sticking with China. But somtimes we do get frustrated and consider switching. But I am not sure what it would take to switch and how much money it would take.
But I have heard that Ethiopia doesn’t take as like to get your child. but not sure if this is still the case~
My husband just met a family who adopte from Ethiopia. He said the baby was just adorable:)
April 9th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Not sure why I wrote like.LOL Meant long in the fifth line~
April 9th, 2008 at 10:54 am
moon.ladder
It is so strange, I was just looking at Ethiopia today. You have to be married 2 years. Single women can adopt. The agency fees were about $7000.00. It said, boys and girls and all ages available. The program is open and from what I read referrals are pretty fast. The children are basically healthy, but the only problem I read is with their hair being thin and unhealthy because of some vitamin deficiancies with their food. I only checked out 1 agency.
April 9th, 2008 at 10:55 am
moon.ladder-
Here’s the lowdown on Ethiopia. Infants to 18 months = 12-18 months wait; 18-36 months = 1-12 months wait; 36 months and older = 1-6 months wait. Boys and girls are both in need of families; must be open to either gender UNLESS you already have a child in the home. Then you can request the OPPOSITE of what you already have.
With my agency, the cost was minimal ($400ish) to do the concurrant with Ethiopia. Of course, upon accepting a referral, I would then pay the program fees to Ethiopia which are similar to China (higher program fee but cheaper travel fees).
I hope that helps. It’s a really nice program.
April 9th, 2008 at 11:34 am
My agency is starting a pilot program with Mexico. I know we can’t mention agencies on here - if anyone wants to contact them let me know and I’ll give you their name and website with the information. The children are 3 - 5. Estimated referral is 12 to 18 to months.
My agency has been great to work with!
April 9th, 2008 at 11:52 am
To me, this would not make a lot of sense, as it is not going to do anything to the back log. Like others have said, maybe it is a way for China to boost their SN program further. JMO.
Denise
April 9th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
I looked into Ethiopia and they have had a surge so it’s now about a two year wait. Know a couple of people who went there and had only great things to say about the experiance , just as long as you are prepared to witness the poverty that is also there.
April 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Kmyrah - has your agency given any info about travel time for Mexico? Some of the info. I’ve seen on it suggests extensive travel time, like several months.
We have investigated so many countries and either we don’t qualify or else the costs are out of control or the travel is too extensive. I am thinking embryo adoption might be an option and am looking into that. It is far less expensive than a full IVF with my own eggs as long as you find a fertility Dr. that stores his own embryo’s.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
I can’t imagine 2 dossiers in China at once, that would mean creating a whole new one, getting the first one compiled was bad enough!! We have had several from our agency who have switched to SN with their original files of course being pulled from the NSN. Our agency has also had several concurrent adoptions lately while waiting on their China referrals, several actually from Korea which suprised me when someone above put (closed) next too??? Their files to my knowledge are still in place with China unless they chose to pull out of the program. My heart just aches for those waiting, I can’t imagine I thought 19 months from lid to referral was long, hugs to all of you.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
canthardlywait - there is extensive travel time. The first time is 3-5 weeks so that the parent(s) can bond with the child. One parent can leave after 10 days. Then the second trip is for 7-12 days to bring the child home.
A child referral under age 5 is 12-18 months
A child referral 5 and older is 1 to 3 months.
We might look into the 5 and older for a second second child.
Mexico’s requirements seem to be a little more relaxed than China. More like the way China used to be - mental health issues possible, no mention of BMI and weight, etc.
I know it’s a tough decision on which route to go. Let me know if you want my agency’s name and website. They deal with 11 countries, are accredited by Hague, and are approved for WIC adoptions.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Well, if the concurrent SN adoptions are allowed, I don’t think it will make a huge difference in anyone’s wait. Way too many don’t qualify for the program for there to a surge of applicants…
1. Only people who meet May 1 guidelines qualify. There are a lot of people in line who don’t meet one or more of the new guidelines, so they can’t do this.
2. Only people who can afford to do 2 adoptions will consider this. That will eliminate a certain amount of people.
3. Only people in countries that allow SN adoptions will be able to do this. Lots of countries don’t allow SN adoptions.
4. There are quite a few people out there who don’t feel they can handle a SN child either for personal reasons, family issues, or because they don’t have easy access to good medical care.
5. There has to be a year between the two adoptions, so anyone expecting a referral in the next 2 to 3 years should not do this unless they have already been matched with a child or are willing to accept more severe special needs.
If you only want minor special needs, your time from application to referral could be up to a year, then LOA and TA can often take another 6 months, then another 1 or 2 months before the adoption. So that means up to 20 months from now until the adoption, then you have to add 12 months to that to meet China’s 1 year between adoptions requirement. So up to 32 months would need to pass before you got your NSN referral. If you think you are going to be getting a referral in less than 32 months, think carefully before trying to do a concurrent. I’d say that at the very least this would eliminate anyone with an LID through June 2006, and that’s assuming no speed up. If China does more than 5 days a month on average, then people with later 2006 LIDs would also be affected.
Obviously some people can move through the SN program much faster than that, but those people often adopt the children with more serious SN’s, or they just got lucky. There are a lot of factors that go into the speed of that program, many of which are out of anyone’s control.
So my point is that I just don’t think there is a huge number of people that will be able to do a concurrent SN adoption, assuming China really is allowing it.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
If anyone is interested in adding their vote, I’ve opened a poll in the General Discussion area where people can log how this change (if it happens) might affect them. It’s been interesting to see the variety of responses so far.
April 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
What was the status for adoptions from China in 1990’s?.
My god daughter’s mother said, when they adopted you had to be 35, and no younger. You also could not have any biological children, or just one in the home. She said it has changed from when they adopted.
She mentioned (her opinion) that the backlog now is probably due to the fact when China changed it’s policy on how many children in the home an adoptive family can have, many of these families jumped in line.
I know of quite a few families who have 4 sons, 3 sons etc and want a daughter. She was under the impression when she adopted these families were not elligible to a adopt.
She believes that is the reason for the slow down, even though referrals were at 6- 8 months now, there are just not enough children/babies available now for IA. She is not referring to children available in orphanages.
They are going to China this year with my god daughter.
What do others think?
Does anyone remember or know?
April 9th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
wait4ever: A woman on one of my lists just returned from Russia this week. She has one child from there, and went over on her first trip for a second son. The child was clearly FAS and had other issues, so she did not accept the referral. The next day they drove her 5 hours to a different orphanage to see another child… who was FAS, had epilepsy, and additional problems. She wrote: her first son is wonderful… but that’s it, she’s finished with Russian adoption. There are many reasons I went with China instead of Russia/FSU countries… but key among them were lack of corruption and required bribes for officials, no bait and switch tactics, and the general health of the children with regards to prenatal exposure to drugs and alcohol. I’m not saying all Russian orphans are FAS - not by any means!! But my agency, which has programs in multiple countries, does NOT have programs in Russia/FSU countries for those same reasons…. bottom line: you have to be hyper-careful adopting from there… My heart goes out to all of you caught in this nightmare. My daughters are blessings - and I am truly blessed. If you can hang in there, you won’t regret it… but in your shoes (recognizing that I’m 50 and single!!) - I don’t think I could take the wait. Someone mentioned embryo adoption above…. I had no real desire to be pregnant, no real desire to bring another (non-biological) child into the world when so many were already in need of parents, but it’s certainly a good option for a lot of people… let alone for the embryo, ya know??!!
April 9th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
This is just a question out of curiosity. As it appears that there are those who are not wedded necessarily to adopting from China, but are open to other countries, races and ages. Why not consider adopting domestically versus from Ethiopia, Mexico, etc?
April 9th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
My agency does domestic adoptions for those residing in Minnesota (that’s where the agency is based).
There aren’t that many requirements for the adotive parents to meet since it’s the birth parents who will be selecting the parents for their child. The length of time varies though as it is up to the biological parent and adoptive parents liking each other.
It’s too bad that they don’t do it for the other states as my agency is great to work with.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I called my agency for anyone interested on the domestic side. The birth parents are the ones that have to reside in Minnesota but the prospective adoptive parents can reside out of state.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I just logged onto my server home page (Comcast) and saw this link under the National News Heading. I thought it was interesting and timely given the Olympic Torch issues in the news right now. If you want to copy and past the link don’t forget to get both lines so it comes up
http://www.comcast.net/news/articles/national/2008/04/09/China.Adoptions.Long.Wait/
JoAnne
April 9th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Regarding domestic, it is a great option for some, but not for all. There are people who are not comfortable with any of the following a) the selection process being picked or not picked can be difficult for some (having gone through not being picked I am one who doesn’t want to go through that again) b) the possiblity that the birthparents change their mind before placment c) the time period after placement in which the birthparents can change their minds d) open adoption e) the potential to never get picked. f) the “marketing and networking required if yo don’t use an agency d) trying to figure out which state’s rules you are confortable with.
I really doubt that people suggesting other programs haven’t looked into domestic. They most likely did but found it wasn’t right for them for one of many possible reasons.
April 9th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
littleemperor,
You start treading on dangerous ground when discussing who is more deserving to adopt from China. It’s called discrimination and we should just let the CCAA decide the guidelines since we have no power in that anyway. There are many of us who already would like to see their guidelines be more much more inclusive. Some of the best parents I know no longer fit the guidelines. There are still many child in China and around the world who need homes and the more families ready, willing and able, the better for the children.
There are pros and cons to anything, but I think there are some real benefits to larger families adopting. For one, they have experience on their side. Also, it sometimes takes going through parenthood a time or two to have the confidence to adopt a special needs child and there are many SN children who have waiting much to long for a home and family (I wasn’t as open to this for our first adoption as just the process and thinking about possible issues with attachment, hep b., HIV, malnutrition, etc. Those were enough for me to think about without adding something else to the mix and I have heard this from many families who’ve adopted from China). Now, I’d love that opportunity to adopt a waiting child.
Children adopted into larger families also have the benefits of all that extra attention….more people to read to them, talk to them and help them learn their new language, more people to play with and help with gross and small motor skill development, and more people to love and be loved by. It’s not a bad deal!!! It’s been a huge benefit for my two youngest kids who have someone to hold them, play with them, etc. while I make dinner, do laundry, etc.
No one wanted the China IA program to slow down and I don’t think large families are the real issue here!
April 9th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
My agency just posted Nov 06 LID review has been completed. They’re off to the matching room!
April 9th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Our agency checked with the CCAA about this idea of having TWO dossier’s in China at the same time and we were told the CCAA said “ABSOLUTELY NOT!” I have to wonder if some agencies are collecting fees from families TWICE to make up for the slow down. The way things are going it will be YEARS before people realize they have been taken. Remember the first paper you ever signed made no promises that an adoption would be completed. There was no guarantee!
April 9th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Our agency checked with the CCAA and reported that there is no way this program exists. I think it is a clever way to extract more money from families who are despaerate to adopt. It will be YEARS before they figure out that they have been taken.
April 9th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
To: FindingHope
Are you in the RQ singles room ? We can chat there rather than adding to this thread. Add your name to the LID list & we will be able to see which singles can catch up at referral!
Ethiopia is out for me for a few reasons.
April 9th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Happy Birthday FINDINGHOPE that is the only good thing I can add to this thread………….
April 10th, 2008 at 12:22 am
willowflower,
Thank you for your lovely post. It truly made my night.
At times it has hurt when others discuss how they think China should pull the files of those who already have their own children. My heart goes out to those who don’t have children. But honestly it doesn’t make us want our daughter any less.
We have been waiting for almost 2 years now since LID. And it would be devastating if we didn’t get our daughter. Devastating for my hubby, I and our children.
Sure wish I could give you a hug right now. Finally someone who understands:)
HUGS~
LID 5/12/06
April 10th, 2008 at 6:06 am
willowflower - that was a great post - well said.
April 10th, 2008 at 7:37 am
sorry about all they typos…I was really tired last night.
wendy
ourfiveflowers.blogspot.com
April 10th, 2008 at 9:58 am
little emperor,
While your position may be radical, it is also flawed.
China is interested in finding what they think (although we may not agree with their standards) are the best homes for her children, and not in finding children for hopeful parents (or as you stated, spreading the joy of parenthood around).
China has no responsibility for your child once you adopt her, her future and well-being is now up to you.
Also, the primary reason for the restriction on family size is population control, it has nothing to do with an ideal number of children in a family.
I don’t say this to be hurtful, but only to make my point. You mention that you are over 50 and have little extended family to take care of your child if something should happen. Many people with multiple children are in their 30s and have large extended families. If you were a birth mother and looking for a family for your child, which would you choose?
cgb
April 10th, 2008 at 10:05 am
I neglected to mention that although we are in our early 30s and are eligible for every program except for those that require a shared nationality or older parent age, I in no way feel that I am more deserving a child than anyone else.
We are all more than our age, income, BMI, and we all share an ache for our future children, these comments about who is more deserving just always irk me.
cgb
April 10th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Earlier in the conversation there were comments about the large number of people in line for SN children or that there may be 100 people going for one child. Our agency has both the shared list and their own list of which out of the eight children, there are a total of 4 children that are available and no one is looking at their files. They allow 2 families at a time to look at them. There are 3 boys (there are always boys it seems) and 1 girl. So if you are not committed to an agency, and if one of these children fit your preference, than at least you will be considered for a child without competition from others. Just a suggestion and to give people hope. Although, being on this list you are already with an agency, but if you are looking than there are options out there for special needs children.
PlannerMom
April 10th, 2008 at 11:52 am
There is a children’s book written by Roma Downey called “Love is a Family”. I would highly recommend it to anyone questioning what constitutes the “best” family for a child.
Every child is different, and every family is different. Big or small, rich or poor, young or old, single parent or married. Does any of that really determine how much a child is loved? I don’t think so. And is any of that MORE IMPORTANT than how much a child is loved? I don’t think I even need to answer that.
April 10th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
FindingHope,
Are you adopting from Ethiopia as well?
Could you give me an idea of the requirements? Are they pretty much the same as China? Would I have to redo my homestudy?
I know, so many questions.LOL
Thanks for your post above. Very well said:) I agree completely~
lid 5/12/06
April 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I’m a little confused. We are about to complete a SN only dossier…we started our paperchase about 10 months ago and are finally finishing up. I see all these comments about how someone “doesn;t quailfy for SN.” Are there different qualifications? We only applied to the SN part of our agency’s china program, and to my knowledge we were held to the same standards as a NSN. Any insight???? Are the qualifications less stringent?
April 11th, 2008 at 8:42 am
moon.ladder-
I started paperwork for Ethiopia, but was told that I would have to withdraw from China upon the referral of a baby from Ethiopia. My heart just wouldn’t let me do that, so I withdrew from Ethiopia.
Ethiopia is a very nice program. With my agency, it took very little to dual apply with minimal cost ($400 document processing fee). They just update the homestudy (no charge, but that varies with agencies) and request a copy of the I700 to be forwarded to Ethiopia. The fees are similar to China (program fee is higher but travel expenses are lower) and the requirements are similar to the old China requirements.
Both girls and boys are in need of homes, and you have to be open to either gender UNLESS you already have a child in the home; in which case, you may request the OPPOSITE of what you already have. And referral times are very reasonable.
If you have any other questions, let me know. I’ll see if I have the answeres :)
April 11th, 2008 at 11:32 am
onemoregirl,
I think you are seeing those comments from people who are in the NSN “line” before the new requirements went into effect. So they can’t switch or add a new SN dossier because they don’t meet the new requirements, but are still “grandfathered in” (we hope) with their original dossier.
Kate
April 11th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
The CCAA is NOT ALLOWING 2 Dossiers in China at one time!
The CCAA would like to be informed of the names of the agencies that are encouraging their clients to pay for another dossier to be submitted. It won’t be accepted! If your agency is advocating you do this you should report them to the CCAA. They are taking your money under false pretenses!
April 11th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
willowflower - Thank you for your comments regarding larger families. Your comments were well stated and very true. I had wanted to respond to littleemperor but did not have the words. I am from a large family and hope someday to also have my own large family. Thanks!
April 12th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
FindingHope,
Thank you for answering my questions. I am not sure what I am going to do. I think we will wait another 6 months and take it from there. Our heart is in China as well. With a lid of May 12,2006 you wouldn’t think I would even be considering switching. But if we have another 3 year wait. We may just consider. We were really hoping our youngest and the new baby would be close in age and be playmates. But our youngest is now turning 4. So now it doesn’t look like that will happen.
But we will just wait and wait and wait:)
HUGS~