From a European Country
Another European country has spoken with the CCAA and has this to report:
- CCAA says the waiting time will continue to increase and they don’t know how long it will get.
- Domestic adoption within China is now four to five times the number of international adoptions out of China. IA will continue to decrease, but IA will always be needed, especially for SN children.
- Approximately 8,000 children were adopted out internationally in 2007, compared with approximately 12,000 in earlier years.
- They have slowed down the review process.
- The CCAA will work as normal during the Olympics.
- To help families plan travel around the Olympics, travel approvals will be given that last for five months instead of three months.
- Last month half of the children adopted internationally were special needs. I can’t tell if they are saying it has been one third in the past, or if most months it is one third. But it is clear that last month it was half.
- The new online system is working to find families for SN children faster. The system is new and the kinks are still being worked out, but it sounds like over all the CCAA is pleased with it.
- There are a lot of five plus year old boys available.
- The Tomorrow Plan is being extended indefinitely.
- The CCAA is going to digitally archive all of their files, going back to 1994. This includes children’s documents, parent’s documents, and follow up reports for over 100,000 adoptions.
I guess this means no one really knows what is going to happen during the Olympics. If we didn’t have conflicting information, this wouldn’t really be China adoption, would it?
Also, the numbers seem to mostly agree with the totals I came up with on this post.
As rumors come in I’ll report them. Right now the only number anyone is talking about is still the 12th.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:18 am
What is the “Tomorrow Plan”? I have been at this for over two years and I donot recall this.
So will China still allow those of us with LID’s and that have been past the review room, adopt non special needs children? Some of these new rules you are grandfathered in, others not.
It is really an unsettling time in the world of international adoption. Perhaps that means things are getting better for the people of China. Perhaps some other less fortunate countries will get some attention: Africa, Hati??
April 30th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Okay, I googled Tomorrow Plan and figured it out. Thanks anyway.
We would love to explore the special needs program. At this point our CW said it would be a wash change all our paperwork, but we could look at any lists and put in for a child if we found one that was not placed already.
LID 2-24-06
April 30th, 2008 at 8:33 am
For those of us with 07 and 08 LID’s, so much of this information basically tells us that our chances of ever getting a baby are pretty slim. BUT I STILL DON’T BELIEVE IT.
Maybe some of us will switch to other countries. Maybe some will switch to SN and Waiting Children. Maybe some will keep on waiting as long as it takes. But I cannot, and will not, give up my belief that THERE IS A CHILD WAITING AT THE END OF IT ALL. I know that life can be cruel, but nothing could be that cruel. Anyone who has this much love in their heart for another little person is going to find that little person to receive it. I refuse to believe anything else.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:46 am
So the wait is going to continue to lengthen…and they don’t know how long? Sheesh, doesn’t that give me the warm and fuzzies?
April 30th, 2008 at 8:47 am
I don’t find any of this surprising and I do believe there will be NSN children available in the future. I don’t know that there is any way for us to really know what is happening until it really happens.
Each of us has to find our way and what works for our own family…for us it was waiting when there was no end in site. We are hopefully nearing the end…we are so grateful we considered any and all options but were committed to China and decided to just wait. Be informed, research other options, define what they are for you and you will have the answers just as we did.
Thanks RQ for reporting. Come on rumors…come on referrals.
anti spam word bottle…can’t wait to prepare and give my first
April 30th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Okay, after my first post, I too googled Tomorrow Plan; and I have one question. If there are 30,000 handicapped children living in SWI’s in China, why aren’t they making all of these children available for adoption? I’m not completely educated on the SN program, but are there really 30,000 children currently on the list? If so, my agency certainly doesn’t have accees to all of them. Rather than sending money to correct their issues and then let them continue to live in orphanages, why not let us adopt them and take care of their medical needs ourselves? Am I missing something?
April 30th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Findinghope, I am with you with your first post. The chances are slim for us waiting with LIDs 2007 and 2008 but I am still for the long haul.
Regarding your second post, I am not that much aware of the SN program but what I remember is the CCAA saying that their SN children that will be referred will have more severe problems than what we were used to in the past. So, maybe in the orphanages there are many SN children but most of them with severe problems? I am just guessing here.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I am pleased that this information sounds pretty concrete. I am sorry to hear the message though. At least now for NSN, I can play with numbers that suggest 4000 a year NSN referrals. Time to go back to the backlog numbers and see where I am now. Thanks for the report RQ.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:26 am
I GIVE UP…….TIME TO FOLD UP THE TENT ON CHINA AND LOOK ELSEWHERE….
April 30th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Thanks for the information RQ…I am assuming that if domestic adoption in China is 4 -5 X that of IA, that we were all right that there are infants and childen in the SWI (40,000 of them or so)…its just they are not available for IA. I think this is great for the kids to get homes. Sad for waiting parents here though…but overall its a good thing for the children.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Finding hope -
What is your LID? We are Dec. 21, 2007. Sometimes I wish for divine intervention, or something, to tell us what to do. I too feel called to China, so every time I even consider other options, it just feels wrong. Anti spam - China. How fitting.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:36 am
I think I want to change my handle to Vodkaforchina
April 30th, 2008 at 9:50 am
FindingHope, we’re in the same boat (with a 2008 LID). We’ll be right there with you for the rocky ride.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Things will continue to slow down! We are approaching 24 months of waiting and if they continue to do 3 day batches, we will be waiting another 38 months. Pure Insanity!
LID 5/12/06
http://www.thelongroadtochina.blogspot.com
April 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am
I guess why they are slowing the review room process is that they don’t know if they will be able to give a referral to all the people waiting? Would it be a possibility? I hope not…
April 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Miss Miaow-
I think you’re right on the SN children. They are probably children with severe needs, much older, etc. When is your LID?
Houstonmomof2bios-
I’m Feb 07 LID. I think we just need to keep our hearts and minds open to everything. I’m completely committed to China at this point, but I’ve opened up the possibility of her being a Waiting Child.
Chickensoupforchina-
Malibu Mango rum also works nicely. It goes well with blue Gatorade :) Hang in there.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:10 am
…..alll this chatter…the CCAA will do what they do..when they want to. Our agency has been really upfront and feels that things as it stands really won’t change…meaning speed up or slowww down…just expect travel to be suspended during the two weeks of the actual activities..The CCAA has been setting the stage of “slowness” for some time…so why would they make an alteration to bring attention to a subject they don’t want attention on…..
April 30th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Miss Miaow
I think you are right. When CCAA began to slow down the review process, I thought the reason was probably to shorten the wait time between review and referral. And also perhaps to enable families to switch to another program, in another country… before being reviewed. And then, for CCAA to be sure that people that had been reviewed won’t give up the chinese program. Not sure to be clear there…
April 30th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Findinghope, I’m with a LID one month after you.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Okay, I read this post this morning, made the run to preschool and hit Starbucks on the way back to lift my spirits! we are lid 8-23-07.At this point I want to echo yesterday’s comments of POOP!!! My agency has 2 lists of sn children.One list are of minor needs and specifically for our agency.We have not seen a new list in about 4 months.The other list is a shared list with other agencies .This list of children have multiple /severe special needs. Placement has been very successful for both lists.Unfortunately it is a lottery system for our agency.We requested to review one particular child and had a 1 in 150 chance of actually being chosen to review her.And that was the list just designated for our agency.
Thank you to all of you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.I wish I had started reading this post much earlier in the adoption process.Congrats to those getting ready to receive referrals and for those of us in wait grab a starbucks if you need one.They are always cheery!
April 30th, 2008 at 10:28 am
“The CCAA is going to digitally archive all of their files, going back to 1994. This includes children’s documents, parent’s documents, and follow up reports for over 100,000 adoptions.”
I hope they are careful with the files. We PAP’s have to open our lives to China, so the information in those files is often intensely personal. The files would also be a gold mine to identity thieves.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:44 am
4000 per year??? OMG, ok I’m gonna officially have a heartattack here….we’ve been waitng 21 months already.
About a year ago-I thought the backlog was up to 30-40k !!!!!
That would mean we would not get a referral until 2016….doing only 4000 dossiers per year!!!!!
PLEASE tell me that this is ONLY NSN and not SN and NSN together!!!!
Oh yeah-we started this adoption in 2005…took a year to do paperwork on top of the wait!
Looks like if we EVER get her, she will have to be an only child now…..thanks China.
I feel for all the 07/08 people-you have NO idea what you are in for!!! I thought I knew seeing the wait expand while our stupid paperwork kept getting redone before we could finallly submit it! I thought a year or so wait wasn’t bad…..wait till every single month you don’t get any closer!
Again-no big news here. Obvioulsy IA is not something China needs except for SN. And the longer waits will eventually cause everyone in NSN to just leave the program…we get it already.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:48 am
please please
more news
i hope before the end the week
lid 1/12/2006
April 30th, 2008 at 10:49 am
chickensoupforchina Says:
I think I want to change my handle to Vodkaforchina
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’m considering redwine&darkchocolate4china
or waiting4eternity.
Either way this info does NOTHING to improve my mood today.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:08 am
JustWait -excellent point!
April 30th, 2008 at 11:19 am
I for one think it is all BS. Why? …Because everything they have ever said was BS…quite a track record!
Fact is, there are more-than-enough children sitting in orphanages regardless of any supposed increase in domestic adoption…emphasis on “supposed”.
This is a calculated slow-down and a planned switch to SN.
I fully expect the the SN to progressively become more severe as well.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:35 am
I’m a little dense…fmj where did you get 4000 NSN per year?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:35 am
All any of us can do is ride out the next 6 months. By November we might see a positive change I hope!! We need things to go back to 10-12 day batches to even have a chance at 2011. I heard months ago that things might not change right after the Olympics, but after the first quarter of 2006 is referred. That will probably be late summer of ‘09 I think. Then we will probably see a referral any point between 2011-2012. LID 1-07. At this point, what can we do?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:37 am
they talking about the 12 is included,but when we know for sure,tomorrow is may first….,
April 30th, 2008 at 11:39 am
According to CCAA children are adopted locally. Honestly I belienve them it has increased but that much… My feeling is stil the same and as far as I know we never considered it on this forum or European forums.
They keep their girls! One of the most important challenge of China in the next 25 years will be to find wifes to men! At the moment a young chinese girl have choice among 10 boys. It ’s so easy to keep girls in orphanages for that policy, especially because they will have no family, money, means to “escape”.
At the same time they offer boys at IA and say they are many of them waiting for families…
Ok I agree with you this is an horrible project but I am pretty sure they would do it if they think it’s necessary for the developement of the country…
Croquette
April 30th, 2008 at 11:48 am
WaitingForStork-
Take a deep breath. When is your LID? July 06? (I’m trying to count back 21 months.) If the rate of referrals stays the same, you’re looking at another 2-3 years, not another 8. Is 2-3 years something you can do? I’m LID Feb 07, and I’ve accepted the fact that I have to wait another 4-5 years. Some families can wait that long and some can’t. If it’s really getting too hard for you, have you looked at other options?
I know it’s easy to get mad at China, but I truly believe there’s nothing they can do. My friend just visited her daughter’s orphanage in China, and they were down to one room for the infants. They used to have 3 floors. The director explained that due to an improving economy, more families are able to keep their children. So, if we’re going to wait for a baby from China, it’s going to be a long wait. Can you get through another 2-3 years?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I may not be in the majority in my opinion, but speaking specifically to the reference to the increase in SN adoptions happening and to the comment about the number of older boys waiting… I am VERY glad to see SN adoptions increasing, and hope the numbers continue to do so.
I cringe to say this, but if the NSN program eventually phases out and becomes more SN focused, I’m all for it.
…And if what they say is true, what a great thing that domestic adoptions in China are becoming more acceptable. If NSN changes because more kids are staying in their birth country, it’s cause for celebration. This is not to say I don’t have sympathy for those stuck in the backlog. That stinks… But long term, I don’t see it as a bad thing that the attitude toward domestic adoption is changing in China, and that the attitude toward SN adoption is changing here.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
My huband and I started the process of pulling our adoption out of China, our Lid is May 12th, what started for us in the beginning was wonderful, the last 6 months have been very depressing & has left us discouraged. We re-routed staying here in our own country which we have alot of children in desparate need for a family and stability. My agency has been wonderful and i will never ever blame them for all of this, they are in the dark as we all are. I hope and pray for parents sticking with the China adoption that this will pick up for all you.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
I also want to remind people that there are still a lot of children out there SN who have manageable conditions. Educate yourselves, you might be surprised to find your child there. There are a lot of CL/CP kids and minor heart conditions. Talk to your pediatrician on what is manageable. Also, insurance will not deny you for a pre-existing condition of an adopted child. Just like you had given birth to a child with special needs, the insurance would not turn you down. Again, please educate yourselves. I read a lot of people dismissing SN just because they are scared or they are taking the word of someone who said it could not be done and insurance will not pay for it.
Please note that I am not saying to take on a SN child because of the time frame. What I am saying is that if there are so many SN kids out there, it would make sense to educate yourselves to the possibilities. Talk to your agency and to professionals.
When I started this process, I would have never thought of going the SN route. Never. I was scared, it was my first adoption and that was in the early days of 6-8 months referrals. I am glad I checked, got informed and switched. I have to beautiful SN kids who are happy and healthy.
That being said, I hope things change and things speed up for all who are waiting for those NSN children. I feel for you, it is the most painful thing in the world, wanting to parent and being in this time limbo.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
lovemybulldog-
I agree with you 100%. As hard as this all is for me, my only comfort is in believing that the NSN children just aren’t there to be adopted. My friend just visited her daughter’s orphanage in China, and they were down to one room for NSN infants. They used to have 3 floors! The director explained that due to an improving economy, more families are getting to keep their children. So if I end up having switching to SN, then I’ll know in my heart that that’s where my child was all along. It just took me a roundabout way to get to her.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
It’s all very well saying “be open to special needs” or “get yourself informed”, a lot of countries don’t get access to any special needs list and don’t have that choice. Obviously this needs to be looked at, unfortunately here in the U.K. many of the gov. authorites have quite a negative attitude towards Overseas adoption.
Marion.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
It is what it is. To think that China would make children
available for IA forever is very naive. This has been in the
air for many years. Whether there are 40 children in orphanages or 40,000 really doesn’t matter. Their first
preference is to have their children adopted by Chinese citizens. I do believe the increase in domestic adoptions because our guide’s parents adopted a baby girl, and she said that there is not the stigma to domestic adoptions
within some communities.
Our ds’s CWI said that they have an increase of abandoned children with severe special needs. The Director of the orphanage decides which children she feels would be suitable for IA. The more severely challenged children stay in the CWI. Some Chinese families also work with the CWI’s when finding the baby they want to adopt.
I absolutely feel sad for those parents who are waiting for their first child, and I can understand what you are going through. International adoption is getting more and more difficult, and I would try at this time to find another way to build your family while your are DTC. Those country programs that are available right now are slowing down too, and have been flooded with applications.
I am glad at the same time that the children of China will find loving homes within their birth country.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
There seems to be a small phase of people getting their PreApprovals from CCAA for a specific child (on SN LIST that I know of a few cases) but after waiting a couple of months they don’t get their LOA, but a denial instead from the CCAA. I couple it was because the husband had a misdemenaor drug charge from 30 years ago. My friend is awaiting her LOA but her husband has a misdemeanor wreckless driving (no arrest) from 8 years ago. The agency dosn’t think that would be a problem, any thoughts?
April 30th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
What the average wait time lately for a LOA?
April 30th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Dear Finding Hope,
Continue to focus on your User Name ( a great one,BTW.)
You wrote, “For those of us with 07 and 08 LID’s, so much of this information basically tells us that our chances of ever getting a baby are pretty slim. BUT I STILL DON’T BELIEVE IT. Maybe some of us will switch to other countries. Maybe some will switch to SN and Waiting Children. Maybe some will keep on waiting as long as it takes. But I cannot, and will not, give up my belief that THERE IS A CHILD WAITING AT THE END OF IT ALL.”
Your words touched me deeply. One of the things about China has always been that (if you are willing to wait) there WILL be a baby in the end. I know the wait seems intolerable to all of you. The waiting time did triple from my LID to Gotcha Day. My heart does go out to you and the ridiculous amount of time all of you have to endure now.
However, as a single who received my referral exactly one week before the new regulations were announced, thereby excluding me from ever having a Chinese sister for my daughter, I have to say that at least there still is hope for you. I looked at other countries but, due to my singleness, was pretty much limited to VN. Last year I started the process of adopting a sibling from there, but as most of you already know, as of Monday, that door was also shut for me. I guess my point in writing you is to encourage you to continue to find hope, in whatever manner you can and keep your focus on the end of the journey. In such discouraging times, it is the only way I would be able to survive.
And one last thing, continue to find support and encouragement among online communities such as this. Friends, family…. they really can’t understand what it is like. Fellow PAP are right there with you. This RQ group is what helped me keep my sanity.
Warmly,
Laureen
Home 27 months tomorrow
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
April 30th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I would like to talk to CCAA officials about their perspective on the new SN online system of referrals.
From what we’ve learned from our agency, the shared list is like feeding frenzy day at the zoo, and they are the pack of wolves fighting to get in to lock files. Then, families only have a series of three periods of 48 hours of locked files to decide.
I’ll add that from the handful of people I have talked to lately the information has not been up-to-date, either, and there is no chance to get up-to-date information before a decision has to be made.
I definitely hope that is a bug that gets worked out. I am so glad we found our son on the SN list, but to be honest we took a big leap of faith on the information we were given. I don’t think families should be making decisions based on too little information.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Our agency applied over 2 years ago to add SN adoptions to their China progrm. Nothing….If CHina is so committed to helping SN kids why don’t they let more agencies participate. It is complete BS. We are open to many SN’s but can’t apply through our agency and they won’t let us switch agencies even if we found a child. They need to losen their rule on changing agencies or let more agencies do SN. It’s so frustrating.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
chickensoupforchina Says:
April 30th, 2008 at 9:36 am
I think I want to change my handle to Vodkaforchina
LMOA!!!!
April 30th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
just checked with our china only agency and they said SN was taking 13-18 months as it is. We are log in 3/7/06 - at 3 days a month, we would be at 18 months. But if they continue at 2 days, its 27 months which makes our wait 4 1/2 years. It’s just so beyond understanding. I don’t know what God has in store for us…..we are already 48 years old, hubby has put his career on hold….just want to live our life!!!!
April 30th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
RQ Can you rate the 12th cut off please??? I really don’t know what to think with an 13th LID date, til I see a post from you. Thanks Lisa
April 30th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
OK, I know it may be sacrilege to even think it… and even though it seems to be held as gospel truth here, I don’t believe a child is better off in their birth country.
There, I said it.
I personally believe there there are more important things than race and geography. Sure, if all-other-things-were-equal… but hey are not.
I look at everything an adoptive parent must go through… and does additionally on their own, and am proud that the life I plan to give my daughter will not be 2nd rate.
China of course will set the requirements as they see fit, but that does not mean I must agree (and constantly repeat) their rationale as I constantly see here.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Piper
I can well believe the ‘feeding frenzy’ analysis. When we adopted our ds, the agency’s SN’s program was great.
As soon as they announced a slow down with the NSN’s program in 2006 there was a huge increase in parents wanting SN’s. Most of the children in high demand were
very young girls, some babies with minor correctable needs.
They emailed me recently, and everything has changed again with the new system, and it is presenting many problems. One family were reviewing a file with their agency and then they lost it to another family because they couldn’t get the info they had reviewed quick enough.
I am just so grateful that we have our ds now, and our dd.
My dd’s birth country is way too unpredictable and unstable to adopt from.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Vodkaforchina–thanks for the giggle.
I think this shift to forced SN is not necessarily a good one for the children, honestly. First, it’s not really accurate to say that you can always get a child with a CL/CP or a minor heart condition. Our agency has stopped accepting SN requests for minor conditions only, and for families who are already in the SN program with that expectation, to expect to wait another 2-3 years for that kind of minor condition. The comment above of the family that was told that there was a 1 in 150 chance of viewing a child’s file is the norm, not the exception.
Personally I think we are going to see these minor conditions move to the NSN program–that China will consider minor medical conditions like CL/CP to be NSN, as RQ posted a rumor about a while ago.
The lock-in system is, I think, a huge detriment to the child who could very well be going to a completely unprepared family. Again, our agency is requiring social worker approval for each condition you request as well as telling clients to line up their doctors beforehand, but not all agencies are that ethical or strict. I envision a tremendous amount of pressure from agencies to have a family accept their first SN referral at the risk of being put back in line and waiting for months and months again. For a family who switched to SN just to get their child faster (and let’s face it–this is also the norm and not the exception), having a referral of any kind would be very hard to pass up. The impetus would then rely solely on the agency to screen and make sure these parents are ready for this child and this condition, and as we all know, some agencies are just more interested in the money.
I think that this move to push SN children out the door as quickly as possible is really not in the best interest of the child, as it’s guaranteeing a rise in parents who are uneducated or undereducated about a condition. For example, what happens to the family who sees a referral for a boy with spina bifida but thinks, “well, he’s walking and has bladder control now, so it’s not that bad” and then 6 months or one year down the line, the child suddenly loses both those abilities and they didn’t know it could happen because they hadn’t done the research? Honestly I think we’re going to see a much higher rate of disruptions involving special needs children in the coming years as a result of this tremendous pressure to accept more severe conditions with so little time to review the file and so little information available.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Yes,I agree with what LouiseMe says.The ” harder to place” waiting children’s list has been updated with more children pretty frequently.It seems as though sometimes before we even get to view the list a lot of children are already locked in by other agencies.Last time I checked with my agency they said that in the past the waiting children list( specifically designated for our agency) came out about every 4 months.Last one I saw was for January of this year.And this lock in system really does make you feel like you are in a time crunch.Not a good way to make really important decisions.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
cmbj–I took RQ’s number of 8000 IA adoptions last year and the note that last month 50 percent were SN. Just extrapolated from that. yuck
April 30th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
My husband and I switched to SN. Our agency has told us that we are going to wait at least one year for a referral. We would like a daughter, young as possible, with a minor heart issue. SN can still be a long wait, but our Ava is worth it.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
P12 I completely agree with you! I haven’t posted my feelings on it because I agree it doesn’t seem to be the popular view. I do not believe it is necessarily in the best interest of the child to remain in their birth country. I am concerned about some of the reasons domestic families may be adopting. I’m concerend that some girls will be adopted so that a son will have a bride in the future. I’m concerned some may be adopted for labor. I’m concerned some may be adopted because after the adoption fees are paid the family can make more money by sellling the child for labor or prostitiution. I’m sure there are some families that want a child very much and have very altruistic reasons for doing so, however I do not believe that to be the case 100% of the time. I read recently that DA was so new there was not a procedure in place. Many families did not even have to complete a home study. Hopefully this has now changed. I don’t think it is a great idea for children to be adopted domestically if their birth country does not have enough resources, places in college, future jobs, etc to provide for all. Just my opinion. I understand many will have a different one, all I ask is if one disagrees to do so respectfully.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Okay. I’ve finally signed on to this site after reading it for years because I just have to get something off my chest. Time and time again I hear about people being critical of those of us who switch from NSN to SN. We are all waiting, we have all paid our dues in time served. Waiting in line for many months/years has given many of us time to re-think things, and come to realize that a lot of SN are very manageable. We ARE prepared and know very well what we are doing.
I researched for several months - consulting with doctors and specialists, reading on the web. AND, btw, I DID say yes on my checklist to spinabifida. Unlike some, I did homework enough to know that thousands and thousands of people have a minor form of spinabifida and don’t even know it. If the kid is walking around and has had a surgery repair, it is unlikely the kid won’t have a mostly normal life.
There is a huge back log of people in the NSN line and MOST of us really do our homework before making a decision to switch. We are not taking this decision lightly and I feel highly offended that someone would suggest as much. And, I can’t help but wonder if the only reason people complain about people switching is because now they will have to wait longer in the SN line.
Remember, there are risks in any adoption. My research shows that SN kids often get better care because they have a SN. There are actually LESS surprises with SN kids health conditions than NSN, and parents are therefore more prepared. I see more horror stories about people discontinuing NSN babies (because they didn’t do their research), than I do SN babies. Even having a biological child there are risks. The right attitude is to adopt YOUR child. If the child happens to have a SN, so be it because its MY child.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I agree Lisa…can’t wait to hear something soon! 1/13/08
April 30th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Thanks fjm. Are we guessing that CCAA tries to stick to a certain percentage of SN and NSN referrals every month and now they are increasing the percentage of SN referrals compared to NSN referrals monthly? Guess I’ve always viewed the two as handled separately by CCAA; that is, SN referrals happen w/o regard to the number of NSN referrals in a month.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
P12 — I’m with you. Unfortunately I think there are many children waiting in the SWIs for their families. The problem lies in getting more of them paper ready. I thought that if the donation was raised to $5K, that would be more of an incentive for SWIs to do so but the China program is so unpredictable at this point so that what should make sense rarely does.
LID 11/06 …. : (
April 30th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Our agency does not allow those alread logged in to NSN to switch to SN. So someone just considering China has an opportunity that we do not have.
This means that the program is also being fludded with new applicants on top of the backlog that already exists. At the very least, every PAP logged in should have the opportunity to consider SN and have an equal opportunity to adopt available children.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I don’t like what I’ve read at all. I usually try to stay super positive, but this, to me, is only negative. It sounds as if they want only the people of China to be able to access healthy children and they want the rest of the world to only be able to adopt special needs. Am I reading this wrong????????
His,
Mrs. U
mommy to Elizabeth, born in Yangchun, Guangdong, PRC
http://www.makingahouseahome.blogspot.com
April 30th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
cmbj–I don’t know if the two programs operate separately from each other but it seems to me that they don’t. Back in January RQ posted some reports of agency newsletters which actually, at the time stated that around 30% of the total yearly IA adoption number (or quota if you believe there is a quota) was SN. And that the CCAA expected to refer the same total numbers of babies in 2008. That’s when I started to realize that SN numbers were going to increase as NSN decreased even if it meant that the total numbers of adoptions stayed the same or increased. I used 50 percent as a worse case scenario. RQ said she wasn’t sure if perhaps last month was just a one time 50 percent situation and that maybe the real percentage is probably a little lower–somewhere between 28 percent and 50%. It’s so disheartening for the NSN line. I am glad that more SN babies are being referred though.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
theups–I think the whole program is being geared so that the people of China will be able to adopt all their healthy orphans and that’s a good thing for the chinese people and nation even though our PAP dreams are not fulfilled and discarded. I hear though that there may be extreme reluctance on the part of the chinese to adopt SN babies as special needs is not thought of the same way in China as its done hear and that perhaps the Chinese are trying find homes for the children their own culture will not accept–but yet the Chinese have discovered that the western world does not have the same bias against these little kids. I hope I have not offended anyone. I just see it as China trying to maximize the numbers of placements of all of the children.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
theups,
You say that like those who’ve adopted SN kids picked up the scraps… Like I picked my son out of the scratch and dent pile. I might have misinterpreted what you say, but I do feel like if I were a Chinese citizen and wanted to adopt an NSN child (not “healthy child” as you stated since I don’t think there is such a guarantee), I would feel like I should have first choice as a Chinese citizen. Just because there’s a backlog of dossiers with CCAA for IA, doesn’t mean those there interested in domestic adoption should have to wait in that same line.
We would be up in arms in the US if we were waiting for a domestic adoption and found out that families were flying in from other countries and getting first dibs…
I know it’s an apples and oranges comparison, but I do feel like domestic adoption in China is a wonderful thing. Those who disagree are, in my opinion, letting the wait cloud their judgement.
And Batty is right. Those who chose SN as their route shouldn’t be put down for that decision…just like those who choose NSN shouldn’t either. Everyone picks a different path based on what is right for their family and it’s for them to decide if they’re ready… not for someone else to say “you’re not really ready, how dare you jump the line”. Most people get that, but there’s the occasional person who makes assumptions and undermines the fact that we all deal with the same stresses of the process, just some in different ways than others.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
RUMOR QUEEN PLEASE HELP!!!
There seems to be a small phase of people getting their PreApprovals from CCAA for a specific child (on SN LIST that I know of a few cases) but after waiting a couple of months they don’t get their LOA, but a denial instead from the CCAA. I couple it was because the husband had a misdemenaor drug charge from 30 years ago. My friend is awaiting her LOA but her husband has a misdemeanor wreckless driving (no arrest) from 8 years ago. The agency dosn’t think that would be a problem, any thoughts?
MY FRIEND IS WORRIED SICK!!! PLEASE GIVE ADVISE.
How long are loa’s taking right now?
April 30th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I am understanding that China domestic is 4 to 5 times that of IA? Would that mean 8,000 (IA) and about 40,000 (domestic/China), per year? I did not realize domestic adoptions were that high in China.
My agency just informed us, via email, that all of the provinces will keep the current orphanage donation amount at $3000 until August. Then will go up to $5,000. Has anyone else heard this? I guess another bump in the road (pocketbook)…
This has been a very long journey. The 8-10 dates of referrals used to seem nice - now we are down to 3-5, my goodness!
Waiting, too long…M.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Wow,
So this is basically what RQ’s been discussing here all along. An increased focus on SN, some kind of quota, more SN being referred out as a part of that quota, and longer and longer waits for NSN. A CCAA employee has confirmed what being suggested here.
Spot on as always. And my agency recommends we stay away from the internet rumors! Hah! I’d laugh if I wasn’t crying.
The only thing that doesn’t quite jive is that isn’t the number of orphans in China still MUCH higher then the specified domestic and IA numbers combined?
Hann23
April 30th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
It doesn’t matter how many orphans there are. Just because there may be a lot of orphans as people keep believing, doesn’t mean that they are available for adoption. It has nothing to do with being paper ready either. The CWI that friends volunteer at have less NSN’s children. They use to have 2 floors, and now they have only 2 rooms. None of the children in there will ever be available for IA adoption. The Director of the CWI only
wants the babies to be adopted domestically. It is not up to us to decide whether the children are better off staying in China or adopted internationally. The BBC America has had many segments on China’s economy and they have shown the rise in the middle class and wealthy families in China. I have mentioned before about some of the wealth.
I have to agree, our agency is now getting less children with minor SN’s.
We chose to adopt SN’s, and I agree that not every family is meant to do this. Some families cannot cope with the NSN’s child that they are parenting, it is unlikely they could care for a SN’s child.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
“The CCAA is going to digitally archive all of their files, going back to 1994. This includes children’s documents, parent’s documents, and follow up reports for over 100,000 adoptions.”
Oh great. There’s a backlog of 30,000 dossiers for NSN families, they’re still accepting NEW applications, the SN program has some major bugs to be worked out, and now they’re doing THIS. I wonder how many employees will be pulled out of translation/review and matching to work on this project.
THIS seems like it ought not be priority over processing paper ready babies and matching them to waiting families.
Ugh.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
The number allowed out each month doesn’t change. So, if SN is increasing NSN is decreasing. Those children left behind in the orphanage all matter SN or NSN. It doesn’t make me any happier to see SN numbers increasing because that means more NSN left behind and vice versa. We should care about all those left in the SWI regardless of SN vs. NSN. It’s sad all around. Decreasing numbers mean more babies without a home and I don’t believe that domestic has increased to 5 times IA. The CCAA hasn’t exactly been straight with the IA community thus far so I highly doubt they’re suddenly going to be totally upfront.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
I started to write and it seemed just one complaint after another…… I just deleted it all……..
Very discouraging………. I’ve already turned 50, what the heck am I doing here, waiting to be a Mother………. I started this process at 46, and all I wanted was a family.
I don’t know that I could truly wait another 18 months…….. every time it’s another year, there’s another one to go…….. We just had our 25 month anniversary 2 days ago…… there’s no end in site, how can that be.
I am baffled………. just completely baffled, and yet another Mother’s Day will come and go……… and with every one, I get pats on the back, don’t worry hon, next year it will be your turn………
yeah……. bite me
April 30th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
sorry guys, just had to let off some steam…………..
psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss,
Thanks :)
Shelley
lid 3/28/06
April 30th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Dear GotchaBack;
Sometimes, a little vent with some understanding co-travellers on this crazy journey is just what’s needed. I find inevitably there’s someone somewhere on this site that feels how I feel at one time or another, and that seems to think what I think. It’s the only place in the world where I don’t feel I have to explain or justify the trepidation, impatience, hope, excitement and all those other roller-coaster feelings, because I know somebody here will understand or has been there. Hope you’re feeling a little better. I’m sending you a hug.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I’d really, really like a conversation about attrition. Any idea about the numbers? Percentages? I’m interested because I’m logged in May 06 (2 years this month — whoah) and I’m interested from a purely intellectual perspective. It would seem to me to be an extremely high percentage, no?
April 30th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
hann23 wrote:
“The only thing that doesn’t quite jive is that isn’t the number of orphans in China still MUCH higher then the specified domestic and IA numbers combined? ”
Even if that is true, it’s important to remember this: how many of us requested any gender/any age/any health status? Yes, there are thousands more orphans in China’s SWI’s than are ever placed for adoption, but that does not necessarily translate to thousands of nsn’s, female infants, which is what the vast majority of PAP’s have requested.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
I also don’t think that a child is necessarily better off in their birth country. I think a child is best off with great parents, and frankly, those are few and far between. So, is someone better off in China than in the U.S? Not necessarily. Is someone better off in the U.S. than in Sweden? Not necessarily. I hope someday people realize that culture is just another construct to which our egos cling. It’s really all down the parents and great parents raise their child to become a self actualized person. There aren’t many of those out there, so for all children–adopted or biological– it’s a crap shoot!
April 30th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
(((Hugs))) to all of you that are waiting. I hate to hear that the program will continue to slow down. I am glad to hear that more domestic adoptions are happening but it’s still heartbreaking for those that are still waiting here. I wish they would just stop accepting new dossiers until they get the backlog taken care of….
Wendy
http://adoptionandfire.typepad.com
April 30th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
“The CCAA will work as normal during the Olympics”
WoooHooo! … What will that be? ….. about One LID?!
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
May 1st, 2008 at 5:48 am
The way I see it, the CCAA will get to mi-Feb or end of Feb this year. I REALLY hope that 2009 will be better …
It’s like everybody is holding their breath until 2009 … In the past couple of days, I’ve started asking myself : “What if things DON’T get better after the Olympics?”. It gives me the shivers … I just can’t go there :-(
R.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:04 am
Hello RQ,
Can you please rate the rumor off the 12th being the cut-off? and do you already know if the referrals have been mailed before they left for their holiday?
We are very curious about that.
Thanks for all you do!!!
LID 01-12-2006
May 1st, 2008 at 8:30 am
leeuw74 - Good luck for the 12th……. my agency says that you are included, and they haven’t been wrong yet, so keeping fingers and everything else crossed for you :)
Wish it was me…..
Savannahmamma, thanks for the hug… I’m much, MUCH BETTER TODAY !
lid 3/28/06
May 1st, 2008 at 10:14 am
Lovemybulldog~
DITTO. To all of it.
Kimberly
Mom to an amazing cleft-affected toddler (who doesn’t even qualify for early interventon services, after four months in the U.S. So much for special needs).
May 1st, 2008 at 11:17 am
What doesn’t quite jive to me is:
if one looks at the United States, there are children in orphanges and foster care
if one signs on to a domestic agency ( a good one) children are found
I’ve had 4 calls within past 6 months of available newborns
With that said…………look at the sheer population of China
it’s massive
there will always be orphans there as there always will be here.
now……if China has regulations on how big your family can grow……..are the domestic adoptions there only for the childless?
I just don’t see #’s adding up.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:24 pm
When it comes to reality, it doesn’t really matter what is factual and what isn’t, or what we think should happen.
China makes it’s own decisions for it’s citizens, and that is that. Whether orphanages are spilling at the seams or
empty is irrelevant, it is what it is. I base my information on the Director of my ds’s CWI, my Chinese stepfamily
and people who volunteer there. They can only speak from their experiences and where they reside. An orphanage may have a large number of children, out of these children a small percentage maybe healthy infants, older boys,
children with SN’s etc. Maybe only a few will ever be made available for IA.
May 1st, 2008 at 5:49 pm
With everything up in the air as much as it is and the wait getting longer and longer and longer and longer and……I often wonder why China doesn’t just say that aren’t going to accept anymore dossiers until things are back to where they were even a year ago.
I do NOT believe that there are less children in orphanages/foster care that available for adoption (either IA or domestic). A friend of mine received information from her daughters orphanage that they are in need of money to buy more clothes, diapers and food for the babies because they have had such an increase of babies. That says to me that the babies ARE there and in need of loving families. China, trust me in that there ARE many families waiting for these children. But how much longer we are willing to wait, God only knows. China has become so unstable that I would not recommend to anyone who’s considering adoption to even consider China. Honestly, if we were just starting the process now, we would not go through China.
Our hearts don’t know how much more of this we can take. The pain is horrible when you see someone you know with a new baby. I can’t even count how many people I know who have had babies since we’ve started this process. I feel guilty in not being able to share in their joy. My heart and arms ache for a child. This will be our first child and it’s starting to feel that we may be childless forever.
We are praying that things will pick up after the Olympics. It would be awesome if they referred a full month after the Olympics. Full month? what’s that?!
May 1st, 2008 at 7:28 pm
“I don’t like what I’ve read at all. I usually try to stay super positive, but this, to me, is only negative. It sounds as if they want only the people of China to be able to access healthy children and they want the rest of the world to only be able to adopt special needs. Am I reading this wrong????????”
I do apologize to anyone that I offended with my comment. I wasn’t making a statement of how *I* felt, I was only asking a question about whether or not China was moving in this direction.
Please forgive me. I never intended it to be taken wrongly.
RQ, I am sorry if I started any problems.
His,
Mrs. U
mommy to Elizabeth, born in Yangchun, Guangdong, PRC
http://www.makingahouseahome.blogspot.com