Follow up: NSN referrals for children with a minor SN or a repaired SN
This seems to be happening with more frequency.
I’m seeing reports of at least one such referral with every batch now. Often two or three per batch.
For repaired special needs, the CCAA’s position is that the child is no longer a special needs child. Families so far have, with few exceptions, been told that if they turn the referral down that they will not get another.
I know I’ve brought this up before. It’s not new, but it is still happening and seems to be happening with more frequency. So, it was time to bring it up again. It’s something to think about ahead of time. Try to decide what you would be comfortable with and what you know you can’t handle. Write it down so you can read through it later if you need to. This is not a decision to be made during the emotions of receiving a referral, but unfortunately, that’s when it has to be made. If you’ve got something you wrote before the situation arose, maybe that will help you decide the right thing for you and for the child. It’s not fair to a child for them to go to a family who may not be prepared to deal with whatever fallout there may be from the repaired SN. Maybe there will be no fallout, in which case your decision isn’t so hard to make. But if it is a repair that has a high likelihood of needing continued therapy or more surgeries, decide now if it is something you are prepared to handle.
I’m really disappointed in this course of action from the CCAA. It would seem to make more sense to assign these children through the SN program to parents who are willing and able to deal with any issues that may linger after surgeries have repaired the special need.
Again, there are actually two issues. The first being minor special needs that the CCAA deems as too minor to go into the special needs program, and the second being a special need that has been repaired with surgery so the CCAA deems the child is no longer a special needs child.
I don’t believe it is possible to educate yourself on every special need out there to decide which individual special need you could or could not deal with. Instead, think through what you are willing to do. Therapy once a week for several years? Therapy three times a week for several years? Surgery to make the repairs keep up cosmetically with growth as the child ages? An appointment once a year to make sure there are no problems with some sort of heart repair, and a small chance for another heart surgery if there are problems? A special need that isn’t much by itself but that points to the possibility of a genetic link to something that could be a big deal if and when it finally presents itself?
Do your research now for doctors who specialize in looking over adoption documents. Know who you are going to use if there are issues. You may not have much time to make a decision, so do this legwork now so you’ll immediately know who to send the paperwork to. And then don’t expect them to tell you whether to accept or turn down the referral - all you want from them is an understanding of what this particular special need or repaired special need might mean for the child and for your family. You’ll have to make the decision with the information they give you.
—-
And now let us talk about where I don’t want the conversation to go.
1. Yes, I know, you can’t repair a child. But a surgeon can repair something that creates a special need, and that is what has been done with the children being referred - the issue that created the special needs condition was repaired.
2. It is true that many children who have no special need listed in their files turn out to need more time and attention than children listed as special needs. TwinkleToes is the perfect example of this, as at one point we had three or four therapy sessions a week with various types of therapists. Everyone knows there are no guarantees, the point is whether it is fair to a child to go into a situation you know another family might be better equipped to deal with than your family. We should all go into the situation we think we can handle and nothing we don’t think we are equipped to deal with. Whatever happens after that, well, we are stuck figuring out how to handle it whether we think we can or not… but we should go into it being responsible enough to say “We’re not the right family for that child.”
3. Just because your child, or your neighbor’s child, had surgery to repair _____ and they are fine and no longer have any special needs as a result of it, that doesn’t mean it would be the same for another child. Another child might need four surgeries, not one. Or another child might need years of therapy after the surgery.
4. When people talk about the various special needs, they are often doing it from a medical viewpoint. But for someone who has a child with that special need, it’s personal for them, not just a medical viewpoint. This means that we end up with conflict on the board as one family is trying to understand the medical issues and another family gets all bent out of shape about the other family defining the child by their special need, or not understanding it is a child with a special need and not just a special need. Look, we all get that, okay? But it’s very hard to dance around the wording of it sometimes to convey that when we are typing something. Be gentle with each other.
This is an important issue, one that needs to be talked about no matter how difficult it is to do so.
I’ll say it again, please be gentle.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Just curious. How will you know if a child has had a SN that has been repaired or has a minor SN. Will the referral information tell you that?
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
We are awaiting a referral for NSN child and we understand your comment (#2) about their is no guarantee after you bring your child home. I know that if my DW and I received a referral for a fixed CL/CP child that we would have a real hard time turning it down.
However, without sounding cold and heartless, part of me would be upset that we had to wait the 3-4 years for a NSN child when in fact we could of waited 2 yrs for a SN child with this same ailment. It’s so hard to type some of these words without expecting to get flamed on this board.
Anyways, that’s my 2 cents.
Matt
LID 9/20/06
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Can you give more specifics about the minor special need ? You know what the problem is ? Sometimes a minor special need can be related to something much more serious …
R.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:29 pm
I agree with you, Matt. I would love to say, “Yes, we can handle a SN child!” and be united with our child a year or more earlier, and yes, I know there are no guarantees that our NSN child won’t need services of various kinds at various times in her life (just to deal with the myriad of issues associated with international adoption– we’re banking on that) but it’s really frustrating to think that we may wait three or four years and then STILL get a SN child we don’t feel entirely equipped for.
RQ– are there any hard numbers on how much this is happening– that “repaired SN” children are getting placed as NSN children? (Typing “repaired” really does make me shudder– I wish we had better words to use here.)
I must admit that a post I read a while ago that essentially said “Although domestic adoptions in China are becoming more common, China will always need International Adoptions to continue ESPECIALLY FOR SN ADOPTIONS” (emphasis mine) gave me pause. I don’t know what to think. One of the reasons we went with China in the beginning was because the system was so reliable and uncorrupt and now… who knows when we’ll get a referral, and for which child. I also worry that we’ll be placed with a child who’s much older than we’d hoped for (since this also seems to be happening a lot), and since this wee one will be our only child, we really hoped she’d be as young as possible (sub-one year.) AHHHHHHHH.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:29 pm
RQ - what are some of the special needs that you have found among NSNs children?
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Is this really the CCAA’s intention OR are these “mistakes” (meaning these files were not intentionnally put in the NSN line) ???
R.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Our daughter was referred to us NSN in 2006 and her paperwork was pretty clear that she had club feet. We were shocked, but when we got her she was fine. I don’t know if it was intentional or not.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
It is not a mistake. The CCAA is aware of it.
The paperwork usually details the special need, the surgery, the recuperation. There are usually reports at varying ages giving information about the child at that age.
No, I can’t give a list. It’s all over the board. And in some cases I’ve seen just one instance of a particular SN and that family asked me not to publish any details. If they are the only family to be referred that special need through the NSN program, and I list it, then I’ve just outed them as coming to me.
And besides, a list isn’t going to do a lot of good since, as I said, it would be impossible to make a decision based on every single special need out there. The likely ones would probably be cleft lip, cleft palate, cleft lip and palate, club foot, spina bifida, heart surgery, and… something I’m missing. I’ll add it when I think of it.
But, as I said, there have been some things that I’ve seen only once. It is all over the place, and you can’t prepare for everything.
As for how often it is happening, I’m seeing it between one and three times a month. I think I’m probably seeing most of them, as often it is someone else who tells me about it, not the family involved. So, we’ll say the most it is happening is probably one to four times a month, out of around 500 referrals, so probably less than a one percent chance.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
How long is the turn around from people getting their LOA’s for SN kids to when they get their TA’s? How long from when people are told that their LOA’s are approved and paperwork is coming to actually getting the paperwork?
Any word yet if Olympics have actually halted or changed anyone’s travel to China for baby pickup for the month of August?
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:06 pm
I want to further stress RQ’s intent with this blog. I work in a clinic who sees a significant number of domestic and international adoption. When you go through infertility and face the losses associated with that, so many jump into adoption. It is unfortunate as I work with so many families who were not prepared for the multitude of health and behavioral problems that occur with adopted children. I have asked the psychologists if any of these parents have regretted their decision and they have. So many made quick decions…who wants to turn down a referral when you may feel you will never get this opportunity again, but the ramifications of not making a well informed decision can be long lasting.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I was wondering when it would come to this. I do not mean that in a negative way. When we first started this process we wanted NSN. I have to admit my ignorance on SN made me fearful. After the time spent on RQ and reading all about the various SN the children have I now feel I could properly deal with a repaired SN child. Depending on the SN I could even deal with an unrepaired SN child but I am in the NSN line. I am open to this. I would not even mind getting a child up age 5 or 6 as I am not getting any younger during this wait.
I feel this is the CCAA’s way of providing more children to those of us in the nightmarish backlog wait. It sounds like they are doing everything they possibly can.
I don’t know what to think about a parent not being given another referral for refusing a repaired SN child.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Early small deformities can be part of larger syndromes.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
How long is the turn around from people getting their LOA’s for SN kids to when they get their TA’s? How long from when people are told that their LOA’s are approved and paperwork is coming to actually getting the paperwork?
Any word yet if Olympics have actually halted or changed anyone’s travel to China for baby pickup for the month of August?
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
sonia,
you might want to check the forum for that. I’m sure there’s a thread with those statistics and information.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
This scenario has never crossed my mind. I just assumed the line of SN vs NSN, were cleary defined, I know that sounded naive even I as wrote it….I will give this some heartfelt thought, as I am a NSN waiting parent. I already has a Dr. in my area that handles international adoptions that I was going to ask anyway of the medical information when we get the referral.
Thanks for the update,
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
To add to p12–Some seemingly small deformities such as those of the hands can be related to heart problems. Things like atresia in the ears can also be related to same restrictions or closures of the arteries to internal organs such as the liver or heart. The problem is that it can be dificult to get more information and further tests when the child is in China. Although I have heard of some families having positive responses when asking for further testing.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
We just received a referral for a NSN child. She has a congenital preauricular fistula. This means the opening to her ear canal is not in the right place. They say she can hear out of that ear, but there is the possibility that she may not. I would classify this as a minor SN. We are accepting this referral. We already have a bio son who has a similiar condition.We do not think it will be an issue.
We have to wait until after the Olympics to travel. That means we have to wait almost 12 weeks from referral until travel. Our agency usually travels 6-8 weeks after referral.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Well we are bummed (to put it very mildly) as we have found a repaired SN child we want to adopt, but since she is classified as SN and our agency no longer does SN the CCAA will not let us apply for her.
Weird rules, some repaired SNs are delegated to NSN parents, and some SN are denied NSN parents due to new rules.
It all seems very counter-the best interests of the child to me. I wonder that Hague allows it.
wBw
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Thank you for addressing this issue, RQ.
I think that waiting parents should be absolutely clear on where their agency stands. In other words, if you’re not comfortable accepting a referral for medical reasons, will your agency “go to bat” for you for another referral, or is that your ONLY referral? Ask your agency director for your agency’s position. Get it in writing. As we all know, agency policies can widely vary. You may be surprised where your agency stands.
As mentioned, in point #2, “Everyone knows there are no guarantees…” True. Yet all of us have made the distinct decision in which path is right for our individual families, SN or NSN. It is in our homestudies, dossiers, etc. What bothers me has been previously shared by Matt and longestwait (above). If families were given the option (years ago) that NSN was the best fit for their family, at referral they may very well be coerced into changing their decision to a repaired SN after waiting 2 or 3 or 4 years. Coerce sounds like a harsh word but consider this: if those families had conscientiously wanted to “switch” to SN, they could have had their children home much, much sooner (as so many have). Now, it appears as if not only is that initial decision abruptly taken away from them, they have had to endure an extended wait to get to the same place.
I also want to mention that I greatly appreciate your thoughtful diplomacy in points 1 - 4, RQ. This is a very delicate subject. As #4 states “But for someone who has a child with that special need, it’s personal for them, not just a medical viewpoint….”
While it is a difficult issue to address, it needs to be aired. We all need to be prepared.
Thank you again, RQ.
p.s. Does anyone know if this issue is addressed, somewhere, in the Hague Convention on Intercountry adoption? It might be worth contacting someone at the Federal level and asking about this.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
CCAA absolutely knows what they are doing. When we did our home study update LAST YEAR, our SW (who works for a large China only agency) told us all about this and that we needed to change the wording in our home study saying that we would accept a child with minor and/or corrected special needs.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
This is very worrisome, I must admit. Since there are so many people out there who are willing to adopt SN children, it seems these children could easily be placed in the SN program. There are just certain types of people who aren’t equipped to handle certain situations. I once spoke to someone from a large and very well respected agency (not my agency, incidentally) who said they find SN adoptions work best with people who are not overly emotional, which makes sense. What one person can easily handle, another finds gut wrenching. I generally am not at all critical of CCAA, but I do wish they would reconsider this policy. Referral time should be joyful, not draining!
Another issue is this–when someone gets an unexpected referral like this, it tends to take quite some time to make a decision. This also holds up the rest of the adoption group, which isn’t fair either. I know my agency waits until everyone has accepted to send the everything back to China and get the ball rolling for travel. Overall, this seems like a very difficult situation which could be easily averted by placing SN children in the SN program.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
A few months ago, my agency sent out an email saying CCAA was starting a program of this kind, called SCOPS (stands for Special something Program something, I think). I forget if I got the impression that it was going to phase out and replace NSN international adoptions, but I can’t say I’m surprised it’s headed this way.
I agree with Matt that it would be disheartening to know that you could have waited less time for the same type of referral if we had switched to SN (which we considered doing). But then part of me knows that once I see that referral, I’ll know I wouldn’t trade that child for any other that I could have gotten earlier. The feelings are complicated and not mutually exclusive.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I had heard that in the past families were given time to forward the SN information to a doctor for review. A few resources have said they are no longer given a week or two, but now only have a few DAYS to accept the referral. An adoptive MD giving a talk had also mentioned their are more medical details, but families are only given days to decide and sometimes that is not enough time to get this to a MD to help decipher the medical conditions.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I try to remind myself that this is the same fear that all parents have when bringing a child into their lives, whether it be by birth or adoption. And like all parents having to face unexpected special needs and challenges, I just hope that I can rise to the occassion and be strong enough to handle it. I know I’ll love her no matter what and try to have faith that she was given to me for a reason. It’s a difficult situation.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Maybe instead of “repaired” the term “treated” could be used??
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I have to ask the question also…what does the Hague Convention and the Intercountry adoption government agencies have to say about this. This should raise many red flags. Talk about a bait and switch. As we get closer to referral I will reach out to my Senators and Congressman so that in the event we receive a repaired SN I can get them involved.
The is just absolutely unacceptable. SN is SN and NSN is NSN. SN has always equal a child born with a deformity or condition that will require medical or mental intervention. Repairing a SN will never change the fact that the child was born with a SN. If the condition is discovered before adoption the child is SN.
International governments should be speaking out loudly on this. Maybe it will become a big issue once we get closer to the Olympics. Hopefully something will get the Chinese government to see how wrong and deceitful this policy is.
I can not help but wonder that under these circumstances China is the number place to go for adoption. I can honestly say that I would never go back to China to adopt a child.
China is basically saying “I know we represented one thing but screw you! Now that you are emotionally invested, you will take what ever we give you!”
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
LILLYMAKES7,
did your agency tell you that you won’t travel til after the olympics? are you traveling in august or sept since olympics end august 24th?
When was your LOA/LSC date?
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
I find it interesting that there are two families with referrals for ear “deformities” and one was SN and one NSN. I only noticed because I’m 33 and never knew my ear dimples were a genetic malformation until reading it on RQ. :-D
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Boy, this is a hard one. As a parent who switched to SN and is now home with my ds, I’m of two minds.
If a parent is in the NSN line by choice, asking them to all of the sudden accept what would be a routine SN referral would be difficult. There is absolutely a mindset you NEED when considering SN adoption, and it’s not one that you can magically get overnight. There is never a guarantee that you’re child will be healthy, but with many SN’s there are small to large risks of significant associated problems which are often enough NOT picked up by the CCAA. In some cases, the “correction” that is standard in China is not adequate by US standards. That is alot to ask a family to accept/process/be comfortable with in a few days. Add this to the threat of “its this child or none” and that really is unfair to all involved.
On the flip side, I see my ds, who had clubfeet (now fully corrected) thriving and truly a joy. I’m now gently pushing for ds#2 with dh. Getting over the emotional hurdle of the SN opens up enormous possiblity.
In a perfect world, these NSN/used to be SN referrals shouldn’t happen. But they do, so I do think it’s good to think about what ifs now and not when your referral is sitting on the kitchen table awaiting a response.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
I’m wondering how the CCAA picks these families … Why do they refer these SN files to these families ?
R.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:51 pm
That’s an interesting question, Ray —
is it random? or as a result of a subtle wording difference in the petition letter to the ccaa or in the wording of the homestudy. I know my homestudy/letter just says something very general about how we understand that the child could have a a temporary infection of some sort when me meet her — something very general that the SW told us to say. I am quite sure we did not say that we would accept a ‘minor or correctible/corrected need’
but i wonder if that even matters..?
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:02 pm
RayRDT–I’m wondering the same thing.
Lilymakes7–Did CCAA know about your son’s condition and figured you would know how to deal with the issue? Your situation is interesting because otherwise the odds seem slim you’d be referred a child with a similar medical issue.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:21 pm
DH and I chose to go the SN route for our 1st adoption and are now waiting on our LOA for a 2nd time. I think the SN program is great and is full of wonderfully precious children that need good homes. That being said, DH and I started the SN process with very little hesitation because we knew we could review the files of the children that we were considering. WE would be in control and would not be assigned a child for whom could not provide proper care. We could decline a referral at any time.
I cannot honestly say that we would have proceeded without hesitation if we had been told that we would be given a SN referral and we would have to accept that referral if we wanted a child. There are many SN’s that we were willing to accept, but to say that we would accept ANY would have been very scary to us.
This seems to be the situation that NSN parents are being put in. They are waiting on a referral, which might be the referral of a SN child, but have no control over what SN they are presented with. It certainly doesn’t seem fair to those parents.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Can someone clarify if the SN is disclosed at referral time, or once you are already in China. I’m not clear on that.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:40 pm
findinghope - what a great comment - there is definitely a parallel to someone expecting a bio child, hoping for a healthy baby and then finding themselves dealing with a (possibly not minor or corrected) sepcial need. It would be very difficult indeed.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm
My agency looks over the SN list and then they match the needs with their families. That being said I think the word that best fits is “control”. My husband and I can’t have biological children…we lost that control. The only control we have is picking the country and the adoption agency everything else is outside of our control. We are currently in the NSN batch. I can’t control the timeline which is ever increasing, I can’t control what referral I receive, and now I can’t control what I can or can not accept in fear I lose my one chance at motherhood. I realize that there is a risk when pregnant with a biological child, but at least I have a history of my past and my DH’s. If bipolar ran in our family, knowing it is genetic I can choose not to get pregnant. Regarding adoption it is safe to say we have very little control of many factors and it is the continuous loss of control and choice that gets tiresome.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:57 pm
For countries not allowed a WC program CCAA have done this at a higher percentage than perhaps what RQ is indicating.
We have many families willing to take a SN child, and yet families need to wait so many years. The various rules for different countries, different agencies are not fair.
It would be wonderful if CCAA would allow those logged in NSN route, but willing to update and take a SN child, be allow to do so in a timeframe that suits both the child and where the person is in their lifetime.
Our country has older applicants and most people do not want to be in their 50s or 60s becoming a first time parent if they can help it. The sooner they can take on a child the better for all concerned - if only CCAA would offer them some sort of other options now, rather than people giving up or taking an 8 year old on when they are 60.
It puts a lot of pressure on people to take a referral they have waiting so long for. It also seems difficult for CCAA to decide where to draw the SN line when reports may not have the full story.
I am waiting for a CCAA match SN, and requested SN all along, but it is still going to take more than 3 years for just one adoption given the requirement to also wait in the singles queue.
But again I am lucky given those who wait for the NSN queue for many years and get a SN child or much older child, which they would have been much better placed to take at a much younger age.
If only CCAA gave people the option to switch out of the NSN queue and take a SN child earlier - rather than those with the top 30 agencies and the like.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Just to add we have parents willing to take a healthy NSN referral or a SN child with varying ages and either sex, and still needing to wait the NSN wait.
Often CCAA has allocated the surprise SN children to families financially more in a more ready position. But then again how many young babies are allocated that turn out to have a SN also that was not listed in their medical report.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I am so pleased that you brought this issue to our attention.
Having said that, after reading this I cried for the first time in my adoption processes (number 2 for me). I am not sure why I cried even. I was in the NSN program the first go around and recieved my first child with a cleft soft palate. She will go in for her 4th surgery this summer. She has been in speach therapy for 3 years and I would not trade her for the world. She is perfect (and I have wonderful medical insurence).
Another cleft palate would not deter me from adopting. A cardiac problem would make me apprehensive. I am hoping to have to recieve my referral in the next 3 months, per RQ projections.
I think I am just weary from the wait. I nead to have this child in my arms/family so that I can parent. DebL you said it well.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:48 pm
DebL, you said exactly what I’m feeling. It is about control, and I guess I’ve told myself that there should be a “perk” to being infertile, and that is KNOWING your child will be physically healthy. Unlike (seemingly) everyone else in the world who won the Darwinian lottery, I don’t get a child the cheap, easy and natural way, I DON’T get to make sure she gets plenty of vitamins in utero, and I DON’T get to know her from the first moment she enters this world. And now, it seems, I DON’T get the assurance that I’ll get her anytime in the next few years, or that she’ll be healthy, or that she’ll still be an infant…
And I don’t believe that this is China’s way of getting more babies placed, although I wish I could believe that. THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF BABIES FOR ADOPTION IN CHINA. That is, simply put, a lie from the government. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theory quack, but let’s do the math.
China has a population of roughly 1.6 billion. They say roughly 50,000 children were adopted domestically last year (which is a dubious number in itself) and 10,000 were adopted internationally. That’s 60,000 babies.
In the US, which has a population of roughly 300 million, 30,000 roughly domestic adoptions occurred last year (no International to speak of, obviously.)
So, a country FOUR TIMES the size of the US, which has a One Child Policy, has only TWICE as many babies. It. does. not. make. sense.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:58 pm
A quick point, social workers are adding the “minor SN” clause to the home study primarily for the USCIS, not the CCAA.
If a child is determined to have even a majorly minor SN then the USCIS can require that you get an addendum to the homestudy before they give the child a Visa. That can be a pain to handle from GZ, and can delay your travel home. If the clause is already in the homestudy then there is nothing that needs to be done.
And I’ve heard of the consulate requiring that wording for a child with a high fever and an ear infection. You never know what idiotic thing our own government is going to do.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:09 pm
We chose SN’s for our China adoption in 2005. There were many children on their WC list with very minor correctible
problems. Our ds had repaired cleft lip/palate and is doing great. He was 4 1/2 years old at time of adoption. At the time we adopted our ds, there was much competition for the children with minor medical problems. Some had a missing digit and were very young, younger than most NSN’s referrals. However, they do not receive WC with these minor issues anymore, and they choose which family will parent WC. The whole process has changed
dramatically and it is not that easy to adopt SN’s. Before
all of this, one lady adopted 3 gorgeous daughters with SN’s and all their needs were minor and easily corrected, and nothing physically noticeable at all. Her process was quick because they were WC. She has had no further problems with any of her children. I do know of families who have adopted NSN’s children and have been diagnoses
with genetic problems. These problems would never be detectable unless symptoms were investigated at later development. We have great healthcare, and are able to provide our ds with the best care. I have met many other families with children with cleft lip/palate through our program here, and they are all doing great. However, it appears that many more PAPS are dealing with severe behaviorial problems, which we have never experienced.
I think only a family can determine the level of care they can provide a SN’s child. I think the children’s interest should always come first, and only be placed in the best possible families that can love, nurture that children and provide the best medical care possible.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:52 pm
The latest info I could find regarding prospective adoptive parents and the Hague is from the 2005 meeting regarding Hague:
http://www.hcch.net/upload/wop/adop2005_rpt-e.pdf
Preparation of the prospective adoptive parents
89. The Convention requires competent authorities to ensure that prospective adoptive
parents receive counselling about adoption, as may be necessary. “Counselling” in this
context refers to preparation for the adoption and may include training and education. It
will assist States of origin if they receive in the report on the parents some indication that
the parents received adoption preparation.
90. The need for proper preparation of the prospective adoptive parents in the receiving
States was emphasised in the Special Commission. It was said that this is crucial for
managing the expectations of the prospective adoptive parents and for diminishing the
pressures on States of origin. In some cases, prospective adoptive parents mistakenly feel they have a right or entitlement to a child. In other cases, the number or profile of
adoptable children does not correspond to their expectations for an adoption.
91. Some experts stated that the evaluation of the prospective adoptive parents should include a determination of whether they had the capacity to respond to potential
difficulties relating to the adoption and to adapt to changing circumstances. Post- adoption support should be available in order to help the parents for difficult stages
during the development of the child. This could include counselling and information to prospective adoptive parents regarding the procedure and the consequences of adoption
before the initiation of the adoption procedure. The importance of preparing the children
for adoption was also mentioned.
92. The lack of uniformity in reports and the lack of and thoroughness in the preparation of prospective adopters was commented upon. For example, in one country
the children available for intercountry adoption are usually over age 5 and have a variety of problems. Not all parents are suitable for adopting an older child and it important to
prepare prospective parents adequately through counselling and education.
The whole document makes for some very interesting reading for anyone interested in learning more about the Hague and the interests it is striving to protect.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
I am a parent of a NSN-referred child who was diagnosed with a serious SN several months after we returned home. I am not sharing the SN to maintain our privacy.
Nothing in her paperwork indicated that there was a problem, and nothing was evident while we were in China. At this point, it is useless to speculate whether the SN was unknown or hidden.
We have gone through our share of grief/anger for her and for our family. She was still the same child from one day to the next, and we love and cherish her. I am not going to gloss over the reality of this for my family… the new time, financial, and emotional requirements on our family are going to be costly and stressful.
This is now my family’s reality, and PAPs need to know it is possible in any NSN adoption.
Could someone point me in the direction the Hague and inter-country (US and China) agreement texts on international adoption? I am interested in what it says about our situation.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Very interesting, RQ. Nice to know. Our social worker certainly did not present it like that. Thanks!
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:45 pm
My bio daugther was diagnosed with leukemia 2 years ago.
We were the normal family, living the normal life. One day our life changed and it really changed. We had a daughter with cancer. It can happen one day to all of us. It could be at the day of referal or a few years later. We can do it or not. Some couples break up over that, I read that 80 % of couples that go through life with a really sick child will get divorce. We decided to live through it. Yes, we had to go and stay many days at the hospital. We left early many mornings so she could have her treatments. Hospital check-up 3 to 4 times a week, we did it.
My husband and I decided we would deal with a referal with SN but how much needs can we handle, will cross the bridge when we get there.
I’m sure will be just fine, but a discussion about it is necessary. Discussion is always good but reality is sometime 2 differents things.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:13 pm
well, this is certainly an interesting post. I remember reading about this type of scenario on earlier rq posts. It’s particularly concerning for me this time though.
My dh and I recently left the sn program and requested to remain in the NSN program. We had accepted a referral but after recieiving additional info (we had to decide within 48 hours) a week later, we had to turn down the referral. This was devastating for us. We’ve been grieving for months. We knew we could not handle this particular special need. We were not given all of the info in the first packet and some of it was conflicting info (translated from Chinese, bad translation, etc).
I agree wholeheartedly with RQ. It is unfair to the child and to the parent if the parents accept a referral that they feel they cannot handle. (or find out later). Also, I agree that just because so and so down the street said that this particular sn was not a problem for them, doesn’t mean it will be the same with every child. Doing the research is crucial. The sn may not seem like a big deal but once you do the research, you may find out that it’s more than what you thought.
We are first time parents also. We felt like we “should” accept the first referral that we were offered because we are getting older and we have waited for so long. We didn’t have alot of time to decide. We actually did the research before, talked to a pediatrician but were still surprised because the info we received was not entirely accurate.
Be careful.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Longestwait,
China’s population is actually closer to 1.3 billion. Regardless, trying to compare the number of infants available for adoption in China versus the U.S. by population statistics alone is overly simplistic, to say the least. I’m also curious as to why you believe the statistic of China having 50,000 domestic adoptions per year is “dubious”?
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Because of all the “talk” of how difficult it is to adopt domestically by a certain poster that leads some to think it DA numbers can’t be higher than how many are adopted through IA. Not that I agree with him on anything…
And reliablility of the China program is a separate thing than - can predict and provide referral in a speedy time frame. Reliabilty is about steps and hoops being predictable and able to be successful jumping through said hoops.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:18 pm
We are family who was referred a child with a repaired cleft lip. (NSN, 2005) No, I do not object to the word “repaired”. (But that’s just me.) It’s not my child who was repaired, it’s her lip. “Repaired” does not define who she is, but it is a part of who she is every bit as much as her Chinese heritage. And as such, it can be a source of pride for her, of one more thing she’s conquered in her life. Today, she still needs treatment for a missing tooth and small cleft through the hard palate. And when she’s through that we’ll teach her to be proud of that, too. Would I do it again, yep. Did I take anytime to decide? Nope. In fact, I told the family coordinator who called me on referral day I didn’t care if she was green with purple dots. But I would never tell another family to do the same thing. We all know what we can handle. For our family, due to our beliefs, we believed this was our child, no matter what. But I realize that not everyone believes the same as me, and not everyone has the desire or the makeup to deal with certain types of needs.
Today, we have another child, through the SN program, with complex congenital heart disease which was unrepaired and who has been through weeks in ICU since coming home last November and will spend more time there in the future as she has more surgeries over the course of her life. But we went in to this with our eyes wide open this time. No illusions about anything. Still, it was certainly not a decision we made quickly or lightly.
There have been days since we brought her home when we wondered if she was going to make it. In fact, we still have those days as we talk to doctor after doctor and learn how much damage was done to her body in the years while she waited for her repair. And though it’s still years away, I look forward to the day when I can say she’s “repaired” (her heart anyway). I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.
I did not intend to offend, or to say anyone should be like me. Only that NSN/SN is a huge decision that weighs heavy on the hearts of all parents in this situation. And parents who aren’t prepared or equipped or certain that they can commit to a child no matter what the future holds should not be pressured to take a child when there is a legitimate SN concern. For those who asked, I can tell you some of the repaired special needs I have seen referred as NSN. Besides cleft lip/palate issues, I have seen VSD/ASD, club foot, extra digits, missing digits, lazy eye(s), crossed eyes, scars of unknown origin, and nevus. Those are the ones I can think of right now. And yes, some or possibly all of those things may be part of certain syndromes (with the exception of the scars…). So that’s why I totally agree with RQ when she says do some research. No, you can’t research all SN’s but you can know perhaps the things you certainly can not handle and feel more comfortable and prepared should you be presented with a repaired SN at referral.
Again, I don’t intend to offend. I always hate talking about this because it’s so emotionally charged and I understand certain words hurt other people for reasons that I don’t understand but can accept. But don’t worry about offending me. “Repaired” is a beautiful word and a goal in our family.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Wow, this is a very important thing to know and understand. I have to say that I would be upset if I did not know that this could happen and it was suddenly sprung on me. So I am reading all your comments and trying to learn everything I can - with an open mind and then I am going to be very busy researching.
Thank you RQ, for working so hard for us.
LID
March 1, 2006
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
What concerns me greatly is that people are talking about adopting from China because they wanted a *healthy* child. Guess what?? Nearly all children adopted from China have special needs, even those designated as “healthy.” Some of these “healthy” children have extremely serious special needs because they have been neglected and had multiple placements. In comparison the physical special needs that are being talked about are a piece of cake! If you don’t want a child with special needs or “couldn’t handle” a child with special needs don’t adopt from China.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I am almost at a loss for words. I don’t quite understand why this is happening when there are so many families who are considering SN children, and when people are given opportunity to choose which path they feel led to consider.
We are waiting for our LOA to bring our little girl home. She has a complex, unrepaired heart condition and unrepaired CL/CP. We fully understand (and I don’t use this lightly) that this could mean lots of underlying concerns. We waited on our agency’s SN list for 8 months before receiving the call. We had a long time to consider how we would respond once we received the call. We had time to research the needs we felt led to and we had time to prepare for the moment. We hope and believe that our daughter will be well one day but we simply don’t know. I cannot imagine being asked to make this type of decision when one thought they would be receiving a NSN referral for a healthy child.
As someone else pointed out earlier, had we not felt prepared to accept our daughter’s referral, we would have been called at some point with another referral. In fact, we know our daughter’s file had been reviewed at least once already and since we have been able to have contact with the other family, we know they have since received the call about their child.
For a family who has waited for a NSN referral to then maybe not receive another referral at all if they felt they were not the right family for a child with a SN and did not accept the referral … I just cannot imagine. I am so sorry for those NSN families who are waiting and now having to wonder about this.
Hoping
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
DebL - according to my agency, the Hague Convention requires a minimum of 2 weeks for a family to review a referral.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
p.s. - my agency said they’d go to bat for us if anything comes up while we are in China - whether it be additional medical tests, a different/healthy referral.
I’m like findinghope, though - I’ve already grown to love her so much
June 24th, 2008 at 12:32 am
We are part of the NSN program. We recently received a referral for a child with a potentially serious unfavorable test result. After much debate and consultation with doctors we elected to not accept the referral and were provided a referral for a healthy girl. The decision to not accept the referral was the most difficult decision of my life and is one that will affect me forever. This is a very important topic for people to consider, if for no other reason than the fact that it also brings into the light the issues related to not accepting a referral. Thank you.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:44 am
I haven’t had time to read these comments yet, but I am wondering if anyone has seen the opposite happening. We had a LID of 12/06, but went with the waiting child program and brought home our daughter at the end of 2007. Our daughter’s special need was delayed development due to prematurity, but when we rec’d her referral last July, all of the info. on it appeared that she was developing at a typical rate. She has been home about 8 mos. now, and is well adjusted, and has developed right on track. She is still somewhat speech delayed, but I would expect that even if she came to us through the traditional program. I have often wondered how she was in the waiting child program, yet many kiddos in the NSN program come home even more delayed. Now to hear this about kids with more needs being placed in the NSN group, it just isn’t making sense!
June 24th, 2008 at 1:28 am
Hopingfor08 - not everyone is allowed the choice to switch to SN from the NSN program - your comment:
“people are given the opportunity to choose which path they feel led to consider”
does not apply to countries with government run programs with China (the UK and Australia for example). In Australia private agencies are illegal!
We are in Australia and were advised by our SW to apply for the NSN program as this would be our first child (ie we are inexperienced parents) and most likely (due to our age and wait time) be our only child.
We now cannot switch to SN even if we wanted to as I understand. We would love to have the choice now but can only wait in the NSN program. So many of the couples/families waiting in the NSN program do not have the same options available to them. It depends on what country they live in - this is an issue in itself.
LID 4/17/2007
June 24th, 2008 at 3:08 am
ParrotMad
I wonder if you do an updated SW interview if instead you request say 2 x CL/CP boys age 2-5 years from the same SWI if CCAA would not allow it. Most likely you would still need to wait the normal NSN wait period (years), but a special case could be argued to CCAA - but as usual would probably not work, but that seems to be their most difficult cases to place.
What kills me is seemingly CCAA is prepared to say that a CL/CP boy that has had their file sent out to an American agencies WC list 3 times with no families taking them up, they are then considered ‘unadoptable’. If only people here in Australia were given the option.
Another issue is you then see so many families who take on extra ‘waiting children’ then having to fund raise as well. We have some VERY well off parents just stuck in the queue who were financially able to adopt from the moment they were approved - or else they would not have been approved in the first place.
OK I am all for SN children having a home, rather than an orphanage home - no matter how constrained a family is. But it just seems ludicrous when others have oodles of resources available to look after a child, that are disadvantaged in the programs on offer.
June 24th, 2008 at 4:11 am
If we were referred a NSN baby with corrected or minor special needs I am sure we would not turn down him or her………It is wierd that I feel such unconditional love for a baby we haven’t met yet…In our country we were strongly encouraged to not put on our homestudy form from our SW any conditions we felt we could deal with!!!…….
June 24th, 2008 at 6:30 am
I am also in Australia and considering the direct match SN “programme” that we have here …I am wondering about the implications of the inclusion of SN children in the NSN programe for the children that can be adopted through the direct match programme….we were hoping (for many reasons) to request a child with relatively minor special needs….I wonder if this will be possible going forward if such children are allocated through the NSN programme instead.
Thankyou RQ for bringing this issue to light
June 24th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Our agency told us from the start that a child that has been treated is no longer een SN child, and we understood and accepted that, so for us this is no news. But I didn’t know that you can also can get a refferal for a SN even when you have chosen for NSN ( like us). But our agency also told us that when you want to apply for a SN then it has to be written in our home study ( I don’t know if that is the correct translation) We didn’t let that written down in our home study. And also not on our application form our agency. So even if we wanten to switch to SN, that’s isn’t so easy, we would have to change our home study and that’s already translated and is in China. But I don’t know if this was also the case for those people who applied for NSN and got a refferal for SN ? At the moment we can only wait and we get our refferal ( a very long time away) we will think very carefully. But I have to say I don’t think if we would turn it down, after waiting for so long. But can we handle it, that’s the big question….
June 24th, 2008 at 8:02 am
I was one of those people who thought I could never turn down a referral after waiting so long, even if it involved a sn. I have strong beliefs also. That’s why it was so excrutiating for us when it came to the big decision.
Unless you walk in the shoes of the person who has to make that decision, you just can’t know. This is a lifelong decision. Knowing in advance that there will be major financial medical costs and emotional costs (although I understand there are emotional costs, even with a NSN child), is quite different from anticipating that ..maybe…possibly…there might be minor special needs. Everyone has to make their own personal choices. I knew that this child would find a good home..that’s what kept me going.
June 24th, 2008 at 8:35 am
“WhatifIdo”…I think most of us who are adopting understand that majority of the children come with their own special needs. The term ‘healthy’ is relative…relative to the country…Majority of the domestic adoptions I work with are ‘drug’ babies, fetal alcohol, shaken babies, meth..babies, and some of this is not always disclosed. It is what made me leary to do domestic. I was also leary of the Eastern Block countries as there is a considerable amount of Reactive Attachment Disorders…let me use the word ‘relatively’ more than other countries. It took me at least 4 years for me to decide to adopt and that is in part of where I work. The other problem is prior to the Hague it appears most adoptive parents did not receive the proper education on what comes with certain disorders and classed on Attachment/Bonding and so many have been ill prepared.
Tragedy occurs at many levels. My DH and I will wait until January 2009 to check to see if things speed up if it does not I can’t emotionally wait another 4 years and so we will have to come to the conclusion we will be childless. The term ‘Ignorance is Bliss’ comes as a double edge sword.
LID 1/23/07
June 24th, 2008 at 8:46 am
I’m probably in the worst position possible to be thrown an unexpected curve. I’m a single mom, on a librarian’s income, and I can’t drive (due to a vision impairment). But I have to tell you, my first daughter was NSN from China and her first two years home were extremely challenging. She had severe developmental delays, high fevers, Meningitis, febrile seizures, and the list goes on.
And I’ll be honest. I never thought twice. I just did what I had to do and cherished my child through every doctor’s appointment, ER visit, ambulance ride, etc. I think it’s something that just naturally happens to a parent when dealing with a child’s illness, somehow you get the strength to deal with it.
The one thing that would be very difficult for me, however, is having a child with a repaired heart condition. My SW and I have discussed this. I can take on pretty much anything that isn’t life-threatening; but throw me something that could even possibly take my child away from me and I’m just not good at that. I wouldn’t be a good match.
So, I guess for me it goes back to just trying to have faith that I’ll be matched with the child who is meant to be mine; and whatever we have to face together, I’ll be equiped to handle.
June 24th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Hopingfor08 - not everyone is allowed the choice to switch to SN from the NSN program
Just like in Australia, switching is also impossible in France. Simply because our French interlocuters (non private agencies) consider it will be a kind of ’stopgap’ solution from applicants (switching to SN because of the wait times). And by the way : private agencies are forbidden in France also. All of our ‘agencies” are NGOs (no profit allowed) and we also have one governmenal agency.
Regards
June 24th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Kmyrah…I am only reporting what several people have stated what they experienced and also what a Intenational Adoption MD who was a guest speaker has noted on the time to decide on a SN referral. He commented that there appears to be some pressure to decide to take SN is much faster than the stated timeline. He theorized that d/t the longer waits there seems to be a push on families to decide or not that way if they choose to not accept that child can be moved on to another family….I am not sure if there is a difference between pre-Hague and post-Hague.
RQ***What have you heard regarding this subject? There seems to be in everchanging of what is in print and what is being experienced
June 24th, 2008 at 9:38 am
How very dishartening. :(
DH and I asked if we could switch to the SN line and were told no because we both take anti-depressants and the CCAA would not find us suitable parents for a child with a SN.
Now there is a possibility that the CCAA may match us with a child with a SN anyway.
June 24th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I have read through about 80% of the comments here and they are all very thought provoking and considerate. I need to read the last few yet, but have a comment to make (before I forget it as I have mommy-brain).
Some of us do not live in urban communities. Some of us are five plus hours away from a Children’s Hospital and from specialized medical care. Our communities lack many of the therapies that these children will need to thrive and grow. There are also medical insurance coverage issues.
When we considered our own situation, there were health conditions that really were prohibitive for us to accept for those reasons…. Not that we wouldn’t love a child with those issues, but rather than it would be better for another family to have him/her because they could provide the child with better services.
The CCAA cannot know those things if they “randomly” drop a child with corrected SN into the lives of a family. That hardly seems fair to the child or their new family - especially if refusing the referral means no new referral.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Queen w/ 3 pigs….you brought up an excellent point. I work at a Children’s hospital and it is a hardship for families who live far from our facilities. Most of your rural areas do not have quality medical care. I know in my state resources in other parts of the state are non-existent.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Is it too much to ask that we get what we wanted. Ya know I am a bit down about all of this. First we couldnt get pregnant, now we might be offered a child with a SN. This will be our only child and we wanted them to be NSN, but I dont know if I will have it in me to say no if we are sent at SN child. I agree with Lightiv, changing the rules in the middle of the game is unfair. Oh and I know that word isnt right but I cant think of anything else, oh maybe cruel. I know this is a communist country and they can change the rules all they want but this is getting to be a lot to swallow
June 24th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Saluki22…I am agreement with you. Like I told my DH over the weekend there has been nothing positive. It is just one disappoinment after another. We can’t have bio-children, my DH does not make enough sperm and I don’t ovulate, after years of self punishment you decide to adopt. You are told a 12 month wait, find out after your paperwork gets to China that the wait maybe 4-5 years longer. Well, that ensures that we will not be able to do the process again therefore “no sibling” for the adopted child. Thought it would be nice for an adopted child to have a sibling to share experiences. I am not getting younger…certainly don’t want to be 65/70 when the child turns 20 and since they won’t have a sibling you hate to die off leaving them to be an orphan again at a fairly young age….only to find out that another ‘kink’ in the wheel.
As stated earlier, if the wait is truly 4-5 years and the time does not quicken after the Olympics we may need to bow out. The vision and dream is getting further and further away that I can barely see a child. It has been one disappoinment after another…
June 24th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
ParrotMad and French Marianne, I’m sorry if I offended. I didn’t mean to. I guess I was speaking from the my perspective with our agency here in the US. I think it is sad and unfair that there are families interested in opening their hearts and homes to a SN child, often even one they have seen being advocated for, yet they are not allowed because of the country they live in or because their agency is not part of the SN program.
Thanks for reminding me that there are those in our RQ community who are not given the opportunity to choose the SN path. I am truly sorry. For us, we did not switch as we started out SN but I have many friends here who have switched from NSN to SN.
:) Hoping
June 24th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
DebL-
If I can ask, have you looked at other options? A lot of people started out with China but later found that another program would be better for them. Many of the families whom I’ve met through my agency’s China program have since switched to another country and are delighted to be bringing their children home. Maybe another program could help you build your family better than China can right now.
I’ll be honest. As committed as I am to China, if this were my first (and only) child I was waiting for, I don’t know that I would be as willing to wait it out. There’s a big difference between waiting for a child and waiting for your one and only chance to be a parent. There’s nothing wrong with following your heart someplace else and finding the family you dream of.
June 24th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Okay, while this is an important issue to consider, let’s not all get so down about it. Statistically speaking, you won’t get a referral for a SN child unless you’re in a SN program! The chances are slim. As far as the post that all children adopted from China have special needs, I’d have to disagree. Some people I know with biological children have had much more serious issues to deal with than anyone in our adoption group. When we adopted our daughter, all of the children were toddlers–17 months and up. The children all caught up quickly, and never once did we feel there was anything too difficult to deal with. In fact, we didn’t have to deal with sleepless nights, crazy feeding schedules, etc. Let’s all try to look on the bright side–the vast majority of people who have adopted from China are EXTREMELY HAPPY!!
June 24th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
We are looking down other avenues. We were gathering information on Vietnam and then got word that the program was closing. We are looking at other countries and doing our research.
At the time we went with a ‘China Only’ agency as we thought it would be the most helpful going through the process and it was…the downside is all the money spent that can not be transferred over to another agency or country. It is just heart breaking to come to the conclusion that going through China may not happen and we are going to have to start all over. NOt to mention trying to find the money to start over when you are still paying on the Visa’s for the one that got away.
June 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
DebL–Have you thought about Russia? I believe there are even sibling groups available there.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Interestingly my home study group advised us against Russia. I was a bit leery prior to this news as we see a fair number of Eastern European adoptive children as well as domestic in my clinic. I consulted w/multiple child psychologists, therapists, and child psychiatrists and at the time (3-4 years ago) the resounding answer was to adopt through China. The reasons is that the children are fairly well taken care of and do not come through the mental health channels as do others. So of course coming from an intellectual view point we chose China. If you are taking a risk the probabilities of adopting through China seemed to be the logical choice.
We are starting to look at other avenues. I feel strongly that an adoptive child should have a sibling. They will be able to talk on a level and share with each other that they may not be able to share with me
June 24th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Taiwan also has a nice program, many sibling groups that I would LOVE to be able to bring home. But Taiwan doesn’t work with singles. I’m just a very firm believer that no one who desperately wants and needs a child should have to live without one. There are too many children out there who need families.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
kyleigh said: “Statistically speaking, you won’t get a referral for a SN child unless you’re in a SN program! The chances are slim.”
My experience with this is somewhat different, having adopted a NSN child with a unreported/undiagnosed serious SN. I did an informal survey of our WI Yahoo group and was told about several other cases of unreported SNs in NSN children. In no way am I saying that the WI’s health screening was lacking.
I am saying that there is a chance of a NSN child coming home with an unreported/undiagnosed SN. It is a chance we took and the reality of what we are living with each day.
I cannot imagine our lives without our daughter AND her SN will have a big impact on our lives.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
DebL–I strongly agree with you about siblings–but I think every child should have a sibling. There’s nothing like having grown up in the same household.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
DebL–what’s your LID? Apparently, after they get through March, things won’t seem as slow (although the number of referrals should stay the same). It seems China took too many applications, thus the backlog. At a certain point, things should pick up again, simply because fewer people are logged in.
June 24th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
LID 1/22/07…you all have been so therapeutic and your advice and suggestions are appreciated.
June 24th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
“kyleigh Says:
June 24th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
DebL–I strongly agree with you about siblings–but I think every child should have a sibling. There’s nothing like having grown up in the same household.”
I strongly believe the same thing. However, there are some of us for whom, due to age or marital status, this is no longer an option. My heart was always drawn to Guatemala, having studied there and volunteered in a couple of orphanages. However, the corruption I saw made it obvious that I would need to look into another country. I then started the process to adopt a little girl from Russia. That fell through. Finally in December 04 I began the chase for my daughter in China. One week after my referral, China announced the changes in qualifications. Being single, I was summarily eliminated from adopting again from that country. Last year, I began the process for a sister from Vietnam. As most of you know, that country is now shutting down. I am maxed out on age with Korea, not married for Taiwan and, on a teacher’s salary, cannot afford the two trips necessary for the Khazakstan program. My only hope is that Vietnam will reopen in the next couple of years.
I was raised by a single mom who is my daughter’s only grandparent. My two siblings live on the complete opposite ends of the country from me. I am older and will be 63 when she graduates from high school. I am acutely aware of her being alone in the world and want so badly for her to have a sibling to grow up with.
Time will tell.
Our wishes and desires do not necessarily align with the reality of the way things are. Sometimes they need to be adjusted;sometimes, we need to simply have the patience to wait it out and see the circumstances themselves change.
Laureen
(Mom to a precocious 2.5 year old)
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
June 24th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
DebL–Hang in there!
GrasshopperDreams–I like your name, BTW. Anyway, I don’t know anyone who had that experience, so it probably all depends on what group is surveyed.
Overall, what I’m trying to say is that fear should not dominate our thinking in this process. It does us no good. As for the label SN, it’s very, very broad. Half the people I know with bio kids think they have some sort of special need–ADD, language delays, etc. I’m not saying there are not some very serious special needs out there, but I am pointing out the umbrella of SN is forever getting larger. For example, when I was in high school, the special ed class was simply for those with Downs Syndrome and the like. Now, the local school district has some sort of label on 20% of the kids, and they all fall under “special needs.” Sometimes very challenging needs do present themselves, but again, it’s the same with biological children.
June 24th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I think it’s unfair to the child with a SN to be given to parents who may be unprepared to parent that child adequately. I suppose many in the NSN line would take the child with a SN if the choice were that or no child or the choice were that or living with the guilt of turning down the referral or if not enough time is given to research the SN properly, but is this ideal for the child? How much better to refer the child to a family that IS prepared for the SN and wants that child. It’s too bad (and ironic) that many families cannot switch to the SN line while those who may not have that desire will end up with a child with a minor SN (whatever “minor” means).
I know things are in flux, but I can’t understanding the thinking at the CCAA. (I think many changes in the SN program will mean fewer adoptions through that program, for instance.) I think that honesty, openness, and stability are better than the shifting sands of the current Chinese adoption program. At least here, we are kept abreast of the shifting sands.
June 24th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Good luck, Laureen! It’s not an easy road. I certainly wish you the best.
June 24th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Hopingfor08 - no offence taken at all - just wanted to point out the differences in the China programs around the world.
DebL - hang in there, I really feel for you as we are in similiar situation - no BIO children possible, and at our age (45) we are looking at being 65-70 when our child is 20!
We don’t qualify for any other country but China, due to religious requirements, (not currently practicing) age, and income being the 3 “strike-outs” for us. So it makes it easier in a way to wait it out in the China program.
waitingforyears - thanks for your suggestion: “I wonder if you do an updated SW interview if instead you request say 2 x CL/CP boys age 2-5 years from the same SWI”. I will ask about our options, however the government SW’s seemed very insistent that as first time inexperienced parents we “do not qualify for SN” as they put it. Yet they encourage us to apply to be foster carers while we wait - how hypocritical is that!
Also on the subject of siblings, yes it looks like this may be our one and only chance to be parents and we will probably age out before we can apply again. But as an only child myself, I think there is too much emphasis on the need for siblings - especially when we are all embroiled in this “raw” roller coaster ride of emotions. It comes down to the fact that you don’t miss what you don’t know. An only child tends to make stronger life-long friendships to compensate, so don’t let that be such a negative when imagining your future family of 3! Let me assure you being an only child has many advantages too!
June 24th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
It was exactly this kind of situation that prompted DH an I to look into the SN program. We where logged in NSN in Dec of 2006. During the first year of our wait we kept seeing reports of PAP’s referred a NSN baby that had SN/repaired SN. Then word started spreading about maybe not being able to turn down a referral for a repaired SN.
So we sat down and had a good long talk about what we could and could not handle if we where referred a “repaired” SN child. Once we made our list of SN’s that we would be just fine with if we where suprised with it, we started thinking. In the SN program we would get to decide if we can handle the SN referral prior to accepting. Something we may not be able to do if we where suprised with a SN in the NSN line. So we joined our agencies parallel program (both NSN and SN at the same time, whichever comes first)
We did have to turn down our first SN referral. That was so very hard to do. But it was very soon after that we got our daughters referral.
I really would have been a bit put out if I waited 4 years for a NSN referral only to be referred a child with a diagnosed SN. I would still love her, but would have been irked that I had to wait so long to bring her home when I could have been there and back again twice over.
June 25th, 2008 at 8:19 am
In France also, we have some cases of families waiting for NSN children who recently were reffered light SN child. I have the example of a little 10 months old girl, whose medical dossier was fine (just as for a NSN child), and she had to be operated twice for hernia.
I understand the situation as being the result of fewer and fewer healthy children available for IA. May be we will be moving slowing to a situation where SN program proposes severe handicapped children and NSN healthy + repared particularity children.
June 25th, 2008 at 8:26 am
And also for Hopingfor08 - , just like Parrotmad : no offence taken at all - just wanted also to point out the differences in the China programs around the world.
Best regards Marianne
June 25th, 2008 at 8:57 am
ParrotMad….we are in a very similar situation. Currently I.A. does not seem to be so stable and it will cost too much to go to another agency and who is to say the situation will or will not be the same. Having siblings is a ‘dream’, but like everything else in this process it will most likely not happen. I take an anti-depressant and so under new CCAA requirements I would not be able to apply again. Having a bit of a flare up w/ symptoms and so you all have been a wonderful sourse of information and encouragement. I have stopped receiving infor from my adoption chat groups and I will probably ‘bow out’ from this site for awhile…I need to stop obessessing on the adoption….hard to do….My thoughts are with all of you.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Well, I personally have seen both a SN referral given to someone waiting for a NSN (this month!) and someone in our first travel group had an undisclosed SN. I think this is something everone needs to be prepared for. For my friends that got their referral this month, the SN took them by surprise. They looked at the pictures of their daughter, got information from specialists and accepted the referral of their beautiful daughter. Their agency was awesome and 110% behind them and if they had turned down the referral would have went to bat for them to get another referral. They are so in love with this girl and hope to be home before the Olympics.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Don’t you think that, in the context of the risks that we have all agreed to accept when adopting a child from China or elsewhere, the additional risk (if any) of accepting a referral for a child with a repaired medical need is probably pretty small?
We know the stories… there are lots of kids from both the traditional (nsn) and WC (sn) streams (not to mention the ones born to us) who come home with unknown needs. In my mind, knowing anything at all about any challenges my child might face is better than knowing nothing!
I agree that a family should have more than a few days to decide on whether to accept a child’s referral. And I don’t believe that a family should be “bullied” into accepting any particular referral- that is unfair to the family and, especially, to the child.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
This is a late comment but I thought it might be interesting for people to know that this happens in other countries too, We have a referral from Vietnam and we learned that he has an umbilical hernia. Then, after we accepted him, we figured from his paperwork that he was most likely premature. In addition, we’re pretty sure he has lazy eye. So that’s three SNs, though admittedly fairly minor. Still, for us, once we were matched with him, those minor things didn’t seem to matter. I think it helped to have in our mind the reality that we expect our children to have some sort of problems–physical or emotional. We do have to have our home study updated to mention that we are open to these special needs.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:21 am
I know I’m getting in on this conversation late - but I have to get my 2 cents worth here…
People need to consider that many children are misdiagnosed by doctors in China routinely. Many children are diagnosed as having an SN under circumstances that make doctor’s here shake their heads in wonder how the diagnosis was made in the first place.
I have had many friends who have adopted SN children only to take them to a specialist who has told them that no SN exists.
Our referral (from June 9) seems to be one of those conditions. The child was given 3 SNs, to which one I would clearly understand - the the other two are puzzling considering it was made at a time when it would either 1) be incredibly difficult to have made one of the diagnoses, given it is hard enough to diagnose in a toddler, and is usually seen only when the child reaches about 7-8 years old, and 2) the other would have been impossible to make unless the doctor knew the mother during her pregnancy and or was present for the child’s birth, and / or the child was exhibiting the severe forms of the condition at the time of her finding.
We are not in the SN program, and I have a feeling a large number of children are being re-examined to determine if there are children who are now considered healthy. I can tell you that most children, when the SN is repaired, are as normal and healthy as any of us on this forum. And for those who never had a genuine SN - what a shame it has been that these children didn’t get to be with a family sooner.
As far as I’m concerned, every one of these children have a SN - whether it is physical or not. And that SN is that they need a family to love them. No orphanage or foster family is going to give them the love and security that a family can.
The real question we have to ask ourselves is, would we be the right family for the child. We are being told that we will be given some leeway on how long we need to take to make a decision. But there is a limit to everything. And even if we get all the medical information we need and a video tape (as requested)… the only real way to know if this child is going to be able to receive the proper kind of care is to go there and see her - interact with her. And I believe that this is exactly what my husband and I will do.
We are probably referred this child because of our ages. Although we are grandfathered under the old rules, I am 52 and he is 60 - and I think we’re damn lucky to get a referral at all.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
This is unfortunate for NSN parents who are not expecting SN kids - the CCAA is wrong for doing this.
However, because of the demand for healthy NSN kids and the wait time, I think it would be reasonable that at some point, the CCAA implement a plan for new applicants that second adoptions be SN only.
How’s that for a can of worms?