USCIS: SNAFU
Wasn’t that term originally some sort of army term or something? Fitting when dealing with the government, apparently.
I’ve had a lot of emails coming in about what people have heard. I’ve been forwarded several responses from various USCIS offices and no one seems to agree. I’ve seen all of the following things said or strongly hinted at:
- Once you use up your free I-171H renewal you have to file for the I-800A.
- Once you use up your free I-171H renewal you can apply for the I-171H again but you’ll have to pay the fees.
- If you paid for the second I-171H you get the third one free.
- Doesn’t matter if you use the free one or not, you only get to reapply for the I-171H one time then you are stuck with the I-800A.
- Once you file for the I-800A your adoption comes under the Hague rules.
- Doesn’t matter whether you have a I-171H or I-800A, if you started before Hague went into affect then you don’t have to worry about being Hague compliant.
One USCIS office says that the CCAA will be the deciding factor in whether the I-171H continues to be acceptable or not. But that doesn’t make sense to me, since the U.S. is in charge of how they decide whether a child is worthy of a Visa into the U.S. or not. And that is what the whole USCIS process is about: The receiving country 1) making sure the child is a true orphan by the definition of the receiving country before the receiving country allows the child a Visa into the country as an adopted child and brand new citizen and 2) making sure the parents-to-be are capable of raising the child without putting the child at risk and without having to go on welfare to support the child. Both the old and new documents do that, the new one just does it in a way that falls better in line with the Hague. But the old one also followed the Hague, the only reason the U.S. hasn’t been Hague compliant for several years now is that whole “central government agency in charge of everything” rule. The states are historically in charge of adoption and make their own laws about it, not the federal government, so some federal laws had to be rewritten in order to put a government agency in charge of adoption without stepping too hard on state’s rights.
As for the I-800A, I’ve heard a lot of nightmare stories from people trying to get approval. There are stories of social workers having to rewrite the homestudy a half a dozen or more times before it meets with approval, and there are stories of families being required to give paperwork that they don’t have and there is no way for them to get (for instance, a marriage or divorce in another country where the paperwork is different and there isn’t an equivalent for whatever is needed.) Hopefully some of these issues will work themselves out soon enough as social workers learn what is expected, but that doesn’t help the people going through it right now.
There is also one agency giving the idea that an entire dossier will have to be submitted to the CCAA from scratch if a family has to switch to the I-800A. I don’t see that happening. From what I’ve heard the I-800A application process feels like putting the dossier together from scratch all over again, but it is for the U.S. government, not the CCAA.
The only way to summarize this is to say that it is apparent that no one, not even the USCIS, knows what the deal is with how long families can keep using the I-171H, or whether all families who started out before the Hague took effect will be able to stay out from under the Hague. According to the Hague, families who started before it took affect should be able to complete their adoption without the added hassle. But whether that works in reality or not at this point seems to be up to the USCIS.
I can give one bit of good news, and that is that any agency not accredited and who can’t complete an adoption for some or all of their families should be able to hand those families over to an agency who is accredited.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:15 am
One thing I believe is true is that if you use your I-171H for another country (we started a concurrent Vietnam adoption during our China wait) you will have “used” that I-171H and now must do an I-800 for China. Our social worker told us to start now (even though we’re about a year from referral) because there have been complications with us.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:24 am
We currently fall under this. It has been a nightmare! Our agency didn’t get Hague approved, so we had to switch home study agencies. They are telling us one thing and the government is telling us another. It doesn’t seem to end. Seems like everyday something has to be mailed off to someone. It has now taken longer to renew than our initial paperchase took.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:40 am
I put an email in to my local USCIS office and our agency and am waiting to hear back from them. I can’t believe it’s been 3 years since we started and we’re still made to keep jumping through hoops. I’m so ready to be done with all this.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:46 am
Thanks for gathering and posting this information from different sources, RQ…what a mess! From what I can tell, each USCIS office is like each security checkpoint at the airport found at all the different cities around the U.S.. Each city has their own set of rules (re filing using the I 800 is like taking your shoes off at the airport – some locales make you do it, some don’t).
My Dad is a retired Navy Captain. SNAFU sends for “Standard Navy All *&!$@# Up”. Each branch of the service and government may have their own interpretation of this acronym. We can create one for the USCIS!
Thanks again, RQ!
July 31st, 2008 at 10:11 am
It’s one of those days I am glad to be Canadian even if generaly speaking we don’t have all your opportunies regarding adoption’s options.
July 31st, 2008 at 10:22 am
Right Teachermom :)
My Army Dad translated: “Situation Normal, All &*%$^ Up.” When we were kids it was “Situation Normal, All Fouled Up.”
In the past I have jumped on stuff because my agency said too–like using the free I171 extension even when I knew that I would have to reapply again. I just didn’t see this happening. But I have time to wait before updating so I am hoping a lot of stuff shakes out over the next year. It really is silly to make those “in process” jump through additional procedural hoops. So, we’ll see.
July 31st, 2008 at 10:26 am
UUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!
We currently fall under the I-600A, but our agency is not Hague approved. We have seperate HSP and agency. Our HSP is Hague approved. At the current rate of referrals our I-600A free extension will expire before we get our referral.
What does that mean? Having my first panic attack in a VERY long time.
Thanks RQ.
July 31st, 2008 at 10:39 am
Oh, wait my panic attack hit too soon. I missed RQ’s last paragraph. Our agency is partnered with a Hague Accredited Agency.
OMG!!! What a relief! That was THE fastest high to low to high that I have ever experienced. I actually feel dizzy.
July 31st, 2008 at 10:41 am
My understanding is that SNAFU is WWII military speak for “Situation Normal, All @#*ed Up”.
CIS not having its act together this way, is, IMHO, expressible in another WWII military term: FUBAR
(Meaning @#*ed Up Beyond All Recognition”)
July 31st, 2008 at 10:56 am
Dom: Agreed.
———-
For the record, there is a pdf from the State Department about transition cases.
But then there is this page on the USCIS site that has a pretty unfortunate couple of paragraphs at the very end. According to that, you get one option to renew the I-171H. But it’s kind of hazy, it can also be read that after your one extension you can refile. I’m betting the various USCIS offices are using their own interpretation of that.
The worst part is the last paragraph, though. It basically says the sending country can insist that pre-Hague cases be converted to Hague cases. But, from what I understand, that goes against the Hague guidelines that say adoptions already in motion can be completed without falling under Hague. If China chooses that option it will be a nightmare.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:17 am
I’m sorry for those of you in process dealing with all this mess. When I see these things, I’m glad my family is complete (I think). :) If we DO decide to adopt again, I think I’ll wait a couple of years while all this is sorted out.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:17 am
Ok Throughly confused… and yes this is FUBAR!!!
I would like to email my USCIS office (Dallas) , but honestly on all this not sure the right questions.. I used my freebie earlier this year and have a Hague approved agency.
Any insights (other than this stinks)? I have to wonder why is the US government making it difficult, then I remember it is the US government and they make everything difficult. The airport analogy was spot on..
July 31st, 2008 at 11:20 am
We filed a I-600A for China and received a I-171H. When we switched to Ethiopia (and have not pulled our stuff from China), we filed a I-824 form (or something like that) to change our country. We had to be re-fingerprinted because ours expired. That was no big deal.
I am assuming that we will get our referral before our second I-171h expires. Our SW thought that we had to pay a fee for the 824, but the government RETURNED OUR FEE!! how often does that happen??
July 31st, 2008 at 11:22 am
As a home study sw and waiting parent (with a 2nd I-171H expiring soon, of course), I’m really stuck in the middle of this mess right now. I’m in close contact with our local USCIS orphan officer and asking all of the questions that have been raised. She is waiting for info from her superiors for clarification. Eventually, she would like to put together an informational meeting for sw’s and adoption professionals. The problem right now is that there is no information to be had! I’m guessing that we will see some sort of statement from USCIS soon-similar to what came out when the free renewal/new fees came out. In the meantime, it’s mass chaos.
The USCIS website reads as if families can finish out their adoptions with the I-600a as long as it doesn’t expire and they remain elligible. That’s the road I was planning on taking. As I sat in on COA webinars and agency training, etc. while the agency that I work for worked on Hague accreditation, I was never led to believe anything otherwise. An email last month from the large China only agency that we are with for our adoption (not the one I work for) was the first that I heard of the one free renewal/then I-800a rule. I was shocked-especially since we just had our hs update done I600a style. Ugh.
We aren’t quite 90 days away from expiration or I would just submit a third I-600a app and see what happens.
As a sw, I’m glad that I don’t have any clients that expire before I do so I can be my own guinea pig before it is time to assist them. As a waiting parent, though, I feel like we’re being kicked while we are down.
I’ll let you know if I hear any good news.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:41 am
RQ,
Have you heard any thing about families who started out pre-Hauge, have since completed the both the I-800A and I-800 and HAVE BEEN APPROVED in all respects, but are being denied a CA because of some snafu having to do with paperwork? We have very good friends who have their TA (expires 8/20/08), have been approved every which way, but are not able to get a CA due to some snafu with the State Dept. Any info on what’s goin gto happen with those families? There are others in the same boat.
Any insight would be appreciated!
July 31st, 2008 at 11:46 am
I’ll be honest. The harder and harder that all of this gets, it just makes me feel like someone is trying to tell me something. I’ve always been a fighter, really stubborn, relentless when I get my mind set on something. And even I am starting to think “Wait a minute. I’m pushing SO HARD down this path and all it keeps doing is pushing back. Maybe I’m on the wrong path.” It’s starting to make me feel really bad for all of the beautiful, wonderful little kids elsewhere in the world who are do desperate to find homes. Maybe I shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss them. I’ve always said I would do whatever it takes to get to my child, never give up. But maybe moving on means opening my heart and mind to a different path.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:47 am
Yeah, I’ve heard about it, but can’t really offer much help. My best advise is that they get a Senator’s office to help them out.
In my experience the State Department seems to be easier to deal with than the USCIS, though both are a PITA. But the State Department seems to have a few people who can look at the situation from a real life standpoint and then find a way to make the laws fit common sense, where the USCIS tends to (in my experience) just quote rules and not really care about real life.
Gee, I’m just full of colorful acronyms today, aren’t I.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
WAY OT, but need to laugh or I’m going to cry. My sister wanted us to name our Jack Russell, Pita. LOL
July 31st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Thanks RQ. They have contacted their Senator’s offices for help and the State Dept, CCAA, USCIS and everyone else under the sun is well aware of the issue, but no one seems to know what needs to be done to rectify the situation. Also she was advised to check the State Dept’s webiste as they would be posting an update on the situation soon! What the heck, why can’t you just state what is happening. Oh well, what can we do. Nothing but hope and pray that it all works out in the end. Thanks again RQ!
July 31st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
We filed a I-800A and we have had zero problems. Maybe we got lucky with a social worker who knew what was needed, but we have not had any problems and our social worker has not had to redo anything. Granted we are not in the 171-H mess, but I just wanted to plant a little hope out there that one can meet the requirements of the I-800A without a redo or problems.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
I just called my HSP and they knew nothing!!!
July 31st, 2008 at 1:02 pm
We are just starting to fill out the I800A (for Awful form) We are just waiting for our home study to be completed to submit. I will say I did not think much at first that it would be all that different from the I600 form. Yep so much me me sticking my head in the sand. Now that I am reading this darn thing…it is AWFUL now I know why the call it the A form. First time around things were a peice of cake. We were 12 days from application, fingerprints (we missed the first appointment) to the golden ticket approval in our amil box. Second time around so far it has been a peice of cake… so I am hoping that adoption luck is staying on our side as we get ready to jump in to the USCIS abyss. I am however querying the personal sphere of influence to see if I have any inside politicos or contacts should I need them..
samba in sac
http://www.talesfromthebigtomato.blogspot.com
July 31st, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I am soo tired of it all. We already used our 1 free renewal. At least we are done until spring 2009. By then, I hope this mess is all straightened out. They will have to figure it out soon. I am sure there are people right now who are ready to apply for the 3rd time. Which form do they use??? Why does this have to be sooo hard. I just got off my nerve meds. I better keep them handy.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pm
There is never logic when dealing with USCIS. I say this from experience. I wasn’t born in the USA and to get my naturalization was a nightmare. Nobody ever gives you the same answer. It all depends in who answers the phone the day you call. When we started the adoption process I said to DH ” I can’t believe I will have to deal with USCIS again”.
And so the story continues….
I just hope we don’t have to renew the I-171 again.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I just completed the paperchase. I just received my approved I-800A from the National Benefits Center. I was stressed out about the process, but once I actually started working with a person there, it went very smoothly. I can’t speak for the regional offices, but I can tell you that the people at the National Benefits Center truly care about the children and the adoptive parents. If you do end up having to apply for an I-800A, be assured that they will treat you like a human being with feelings and will take good care of you.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I can attest to the confusion. Last month we were told that if our I-171h (I-600? I can’t keep them straight) expired, then we’d be considered a new applicant, and would have to start from scratch, and c omplete the I-800: new home study, all new clearances, new letters of recommendation, and more (than was required on our first paperchase).
Thankfully, prayers were answered, and we received our renewal.
So, what approach should we take to produce a more consistent, and clarified set of requirements? Letters to Senators/congressman? Open letters to major newpapers editorial pages to raise awareness?
It is even more sad to realize that this extra (US-based) bureaucracy and confusion makes it more difficult for these kids to get their forever family.
Regards,
JuneBugsDad
July 31st, 2008 at 2:07 pm
There are so many colorful acronyms that fit this “Situation Normal” situation.
SNAFU (Situation Normal: All F**** Up)
FUBAR (F***** Up Beyond All Repair/Recognition)
SNAFUBAR (combine them)
FUBB (F***** Up Beyond Belief)
FUBAB (F**** Up Beyond All Belief)
TARFU (Things Are Really F***** Up)
FUMTU (F***** Up More Than Usual)
Although we may be SOL (S*** Out of Luck)
We need to just say FIDO (Forget It-Drive On), cause when it comes down to it, this is our AOR (Area of Responsibility). There’s obviously no real CHOPS (Chief of Operations) here, so we just need to file our stuff ASAP (you know that one), and take a COA (Course of Action) to get our COA (Certificates of Achievement), all the while hoping there aren’t too many MASCALs (Mass Casualties).
Its WILCO (Will Comply) for us, so BOHICA (Bend Over, Here It Comes Again)!
:) :) :)
July 31st, 2008 at 2:20 pm
This actually reminds me of what happened when we started to all renew the 171-H again. My office processed my “free renewal” with a whole new expiration date. Other people going to different offices were given an actual 18 month extention based off of the expiration date their first one expired. I was floored that the different offices could read into the rules differently. I feel very fortuante as my new expiration date is much later than some of my friends that did not get a whole new date. But then again- in the end- it all will pan out- as we will all end up going for a third anyway!!!! That just depresses me! Way too much money going to our government to keep this approval! The money would be better spent to keep me home longer with my new child!
LID 5/29/06
July 31st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Finding Hope, I am so right there with you. I have felt so down but keep trudging through (is that a word?) Our LID is 3/24/06 and we are on our second I-171H that expires in early next year. We didn’t have to pay fees for the second and now I wish that we had waited and paid the **** fees. I am honestly so scared right now and wondering the same thing as you. Are we supposed to stop fighting? Allison’s nursery has been done for 2 years and I have to keep the door shut because every bit of hope and excitement has practically disappeared. There is no way that we will get a referral by the time our I-171H expires again. I hope someone gets their act together in time (but I am still not sure who that even is).
July 31st, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Haha–that was great Devorah! Our first social worker was an incompetent buffoon, so I for one am looking forward to a new homestudy (one where *I* don’t have to correct the grammar to make it coherent, for example). Here’s an advantage of the long wait (March 07 family here)–by the time we need to renew, most social workers should have plenty of practice with the new homestudy format!
July 31st, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Devorah- Love it! Thanks for the crash course!
July 31st, 2008 at 2:53 pm
ok, HELP PLEASE..
our agency was not Hague approved. We are still under the old hague-the I600 and we have used our free re-do. Worse case scenario—if we have to switch agencies to finish the adoption that would be ok. BUT, if we had to do the I-800 would we be ok??? we have been married 2 yrs.(Three in Dec.) I can live with the hassle of a new form, but do we still qualify to adopt??? LID 1-07
July 31st, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Devorah,
Too funny a post!! With the way our situation is heading I need a laugh.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:50 pm
USCIS = Unusually Stressful and Confusing Information Services
July 31st, 2008 at 4:00 pm
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….This is perhaps one more time to say I am glad to be Canadian…….this just sounds SOOOOOOOOOO confusing.
We complete a home study for China by a private social worker, seek approval by our minisitry of community and social services……then we wait….if you live in Ontario and have waited over two years….our minsitry wants an “update” on our study…..so basicaly a mini-home study…no form, no free “times”…just complete it again…and send more $$$. That is the true Canadian way….eh!!
July 31st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
ps…our agency is Hague approved…
July 31st, 2008 at 6:56 pm
We also had our SW tell us that for the I-600a renewal homestudy that she couldn’t just send a simple update (we’ve had NO changes, except DH’s small raise, us being a year older with more grey hairs for me!;) She said she will actually have to submit the regular homestudy to our local USCIS office. I don’t think she said it had to be written to be Hague compliant, although she might have. I have my fingers crossed that she won’t take long to do this….she basically should be able to re-write the beginning part of the HS and leave the rest the same!
July 31st, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Anyone out there affected by this report to the Chicago USCIS… For my wife and I they have made us re-evaluate our view of government agencies. They have always been fast and accurate with their responses. This issue does not affect my wife and I yet, and shouldn’t as our LID is 01-27-06. Good luck to all of you dealing with the rules change…
July 31st, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Where is the site that you can go to in order to check and see if your agency is now accredited?
July 31st, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Wow – I don’t have any other words for it. Love the acronyms, Devorah.
We just recently met with our SW to do a HS update for our “free” renewal. We have paid for the 2 previous ones, including fingerprinting. This time around our fingerprinting was free. Our agency has not mentioned any of the above possible problems, just simply “get your HS update done and complete a new I600A form and send it to us and we will send the necessary paperwork and letter requesting the free renewal. I am certainly hoping that it is going to be that simple and I am trying not to stress over it. However, we are doing all of this early enough so that if there is a problem we have time to deal with it. We are keeping our fingers crossed and will let you know what happens.
LID 3/1/06
August 1st, 2008 at 8:44 am
Sooo, when the final person in line gets their referral,
will that be…
The Last of the Bohicans?
:-)
Laureen
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureen
August 1st, 2008 at 8:45 am
screwed up my own website address..
(I guess that’s SUMOWA)
It’s http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
August 1st, 2008 at 10:53 am
I think some cut-off date rumors would be a nice distraction from all this right about now….anything out there? I’m keeping my fingers crossed for my Feb 6th friends!!!
August 1st, 2008 at 11:13 am
Okay, the thing that has me concerned is the part where I read: “It basically says the sending country can insist that pre-Hague cases be converted to Hague cases. But, from what I understand, that goes against the Hague guidelines that say adoptions already in motion can be completed without falling under Hague. If China chooses that option it will be a nightmare.” (And, what’s to say wich pre-Hague cases have to be converted, while others don’t).. This just doesn’t make any sense to me. I really hope they allow us who follow under the pre-Hague rule to continue.
It’s frustrating, annoying and now something else I have to worry about. My valid 171-H which is good until Feb. 28.2009, was completed before the Hague rule took in effect. Now, I find out it may not be accepted, if China somehow wants me to become Hague compliant, or is it the US? I have a headache. And, here I thought my journey was coming to and end. My lid is 2/15/06. As always, RQ, thanks for keeping us in the loop.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:18 am
Indaclds, I think you were LUCKY or Chicago must have really cleaned up its act. I was in the process in spring, 2006.
My paperwork went in in early April; in mid may I became eligible for expedited processing {I was SN} — which should have meant two week processing time — and in late June, after repeated calls and emails from my SW and me, USCIS Chicago informed us that they didn’t have one set of fingerprints. The re-fingerprinting took place on a Friday morning, and by the following Monday or Tuesday, my 171 had been issued. Interesting that they were able to do over a weekend what could not be accomplished in three months.
The fun doesn’t stop there. I received a note from Chicago USCIS in September that stated the appropriate paperwork had been forwarded to the Consulate in Guangzhou. When my agency attempted to make my CA in early November, they couldn’t because the Consulate had none of my paperwork.
In China, my agency rep asked for my SN addendum, which I didn’t have a copy of because it had gone in with my original paperwork to Chicago USCIS as part of the original home study. I was told I didn’t need to bring it. The agency rep went to the meeting and the Consulate rep didn’t ask for the addendum. We thought all was good. Next day, two hours before the swearing in ceremony, the consulate called me to say that I was missing paperwork {addendum, which recall, they had as part of the original home study} and no visa would be issued.
Last comment, I was contacting Senators and Reps left and right. My Representative informed me in a letter that the process takes a long time and that anyway, I was due to be processed soon so I should just wait. He was right — I was processed only 5 weeks later later. I guess that’s how they define expedited.
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Situation normal. All fouled up! Sounds like a government agency, sadly.
August 4th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Thanks for all the information about the 171-H and I-800A forms.
I am LID 3/22/06 and I am currently doing the I-800A form and homestudy update all at once. Due to the wait time and the fact that the INS did not do my 171_h renewal correctly we just waited to do it all over again.
I am not losing my place in the wait but it is like doing it all over again except this time I am doing it with the I-800A form.
It is quite complicated and has three supplement forms with the original 8 pages in length.
I will keep notes on everything in case anyone has questions.
Cha