Spanish News
Spain sent someone to talk to the CCAA about the slowdown in referrals.
You can read the news story here, and the machine translation of the story here.
They give some stats in the news article. In 2006 there were 2,493 applicants, in 2007 there were 1,859 applicants, and from January to August of 2008 there have been 1,018 applicants, so they are estimating it will be about 1,527 in 2008 if that pace continues. But, then they talk about part of this decline having to do with Russia’s issues, so I think this is total international numbers and not just numbers from China. They also say it’s because of the restrictions (2007 rule changes, I’m assuming) put in place by China. So, if this is total international applicants then the point is that less families are seeing the international route as a viable options.
They also give a few numbers specific to China, and it looks like they are giving the numbers for adoptions completed, not just new applicants. They say that from January to August there have been 81, which will mean around 120 at year’s end if that rate continues. They also tell us that in 2007 there were 242, and that in 2004 there were 688. They point out that this is a decrease of 83%
They end the news story saying that the Spanish government is working on agreements with other countries so their families have other options if they wish to adopt internationally.
And then there is another news item. One that is titled “Beijing says it will re-tighten the criteria“. You can read the original here and the machine translation here.
In this article, besides talking about tightening the rules even more, it appears that the Chinese Minister of Civil Affairs also promised to work towards shorter wait times. Here are a few quotes from the machine translation:
- The minister explained that he moved that his country “is considering to introduce new restrictions on international adoptions.” In 2007, China had already tightened the criteria.
- Xueju (Minister of Civil Affairs), who did not want to make statements, justified this policy of restraint in increasing the number of Chinese families that adopt within their country, which consequently has meant a reduction in the number of children likely to adopt.
- However, Chinese authorities have committed themselves to strive to reduce waiting times for the Catalan families who have already applied for an adoption in the Asian giant.
- ….pledged to work to reduce deadlines and that the 1428 Catalan families who hope to see an adoption completed the process in a reasonable period,” explained Capdevila, who advanced that there will be a series of meetings to realize this commitment.
I read this as them saying that they are considering new regulations to tighten things up even more for IA. And that China is sending less children for IA because there is more domestic adoption within China. And that the Chinese authorities are committing/pledging to at least try to bring the wait time down and they are going to have meetings to work on a solution. If someone who speaks Spanish wants to correct me if I’ve gotten any of that wrong, please do.
To be a bit more specific though, it sounds like the MoCA is promising to bring the wait time down. In reality they are only promising to work to bring the wait down in one quote and to strive to bring the wait down in another quote. They aren’t promising to reduce the wait times, just promising to make an attempt. Which is still better than just saying “tough, the wait is long and either deal with it or leave”. I realize they are just making this promise to the families of one country, but since they don’t favor one country over another, a promise to the families of one country is pretty much the same as a promise to all families waiting in line. Can you imagine the political problems if they suddenly referred one or two countries ahead of other countries? I don’t see that happening.
This is also not the first I’ve heard of possible new rules, it’s the second I’ve heard of it. I didn’t report the first time because it came from a single agency and I was waiting for another agency to confirm it before I posted something that will get the community panicking as much as this kind of rumor will. Looks like this is a pretty big confirmation: A quote from the MoCA, printed in an actual news article.
The thing is, new rules aren’t going to reduce the backlog unless they implement the new rules on those already logged in. And other than a few exceptions (like being wheelchair bound), they have not done that in the past. And since they number the families in Spain waiting and say that those families shouldn’t have to wait as long, I’m not inclined to believe that they are going to make that happen for half of them by disqualifying the other half.
So, I’m really confused by this, and I’d love for some agencies to talk about it some. I know that at least one agency out there has heard talk about it, so I’m assuming others have as well.
If anyone out there has specifics on any new rule changes and/or on who they are going to be implemented on then please send me what you know. As always I’ll post the information in a way as to not point back to the person or agency who provided the information.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
This is scary to me. I think the only way they could possibly reduce the backlog, other than making more babies available, is to implement new rules on those already in line. They just can’t do that. :(
October 30th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
So let’s assume that Domestic is growing and that IA is what it is due to less children available for adoption. Let’s also assume that stricter rules will come to pass in 2009.
How can the CCAA effectively shorten wait times? Only three ways to do this……
1. Make those waiting now and those applying meet the new rules. this will shorten the wait significantly and cause a LOT of heartache. I do not expect this will happen.
2. Do nothing and watch people age out of the program due to their OWN country not renewing paperwork to be able to adopt from China even though China still considers your age that of your age at LID.
3. Implement new regulations, keep plodding along as there are no more children to refer (assumption made to start) and wait for folks to age out, phase in 2007 restrictions as those LIDs get referred and eventually phase in the 2009 restrictions. Eventually the wait times will be reduced.
So pick your poison. 1, 2 or 3. They all stink if you are waiting unless you meet all the new guidelines and proposed new guidelines. Otherwise they all stink.
What we will see I think is this. New guidelines that will reduce the wait at some point in the future. this will work toward and strive to meet the goal as stated.
what I think should be done is this.
Promote SN for those who can and want to go that route. this is already happening. What needs to happen is a loophole needs to be closed for fairness purposes only.
the CCAA needs to say that after the date of (this) announcement, all SN referrals wil be made in order (or very close order) to LID dates and eliminate the loophole of shopping SN children for quick referrals. This is happening a LOT right now. close that loop hole and the line speeds up automatically for those who have been waiting way way too long already.
My agency refers SN children in order of the SN requested and the client that has waited longest for that SN. They do not use them to entice new clientelle or allow new clients to enroll because they have shopped the system. this is overdue in coming and I think it needs to happen to put a fairness factor back in to the sytem.
My 2 cents as always. Hope I did not rmble too much. I made sense as I was typing LOL
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Keep in mind that I strat with the preface Let’s assume. I do this because this will spiral into a “I do not beleive for a second that…….” type of a discussion unless I frame my response as such. I personally beleive those assumptions are fact but many may not.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
strat = start LOL
dyslexic fingers.
AW or WA LOL
October 30th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
when I say close the loop on shopped referrals I DO beleive that the SN needs to be considered. I certainly do not want to see children llanguish in an institution simply because their future parents LID date has not arrived for consideration. BUT if another PAP wants to adot that child and the LID is older (waited longer) then preference goes to the one wo has waited the longest.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Couldn’t they also say no new non-SN applications will be accepted. They could then postpone a percentage of their domestic adoption programs and work the backlog that is currently in affect. This isn’t very likely, but it is an easier way of addressing the backlog. They do have some responsibility to the agency’s across the globe who have accepted the funds and who are constantly having to give excuses or incomplete statements to their families. I guess you have to look at it in one of two ways:
1. Postpone a portion (whatever percentage they deem necessary) of their domestic program, stop taking new applications for non-SN children. Once the backlog is taken care of then they can fully renew their domestic program.
2. Don’t do anything and watch the wait balloon to 6-7 years. To me, this doesn’t seem like a wise option publicity-wise.
My two cents,
Matt
October 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
OH BOY OH BOY GOOD NEWS …>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or social worked called during lunch. We are getting our 1st foster child tonight. A boy and his 1st birthday is on Saturday. To think we dont even have a Halloween costume picked out yet.
I will fill all in tomorrow on how it goes.
Matt and Laura
Long Island , NY
October 30th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I’m writing from Catalonia, in Spain, where this news has taken place. I’m one of the 1400 families waiting for a referral (our LID is Nov 2006), and I honestly do not believe Chinese administration is going to shorten waiting times. They have been polite with our politicians in the meeting held in Barcelona, just polite. I guess Chinese culture, as in many Asian countries, does not allow room for a “no”, that’s why they’ve said they’ll try to shorten times down, only to not say “no, we can’t do anything about it”.
Unfortunately, this is going to be tough for all of us, whether we’re Catalan, American, Norwegian, etc.
Bona sort!!! (Good luck, in Catalan)
Catalana
October 30th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
mattandheather…How do you see postponing domestic adoptions as being best for the kids? I think keeping a child in their birth country is and should always be option #1 for the child.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Amycat,
Your read my mind. My heart fell into my stomach as soon as I started reading RQ’s post. Just when I think I’ve come to terms with everything thrown our way…something else pops up.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
AW- I think it’s important that people do not go SN simply to get a child sooner. There are so many real “special needs” associated with SN referrals. The least of it being that the child has possibly had to go thru the first part of his/her life with problems associated with the SN, without having a loving parent tending to those needs. I’m glad you spoke up.
MattandHeather-Looking at it from China’s perspective. Im sure if they could, they would keep all the children possible IN China. That is (or at least should be) the goal, with the added result of the children being raised by parents, not in SWIs. Assuming that this is done while keeping each family to a minimum for population growth. Therefore, I don’t see how postponing domestic adoptions would help China. On the contrary, it could possibly lead to domestic adoption being less successful if they make Chinese families wait longer to “fix” the backlog of IA.
Karen
October 30th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Cab21404 Congrats! I’m really excited for you!
October 30th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
This is what I was told. They are not going to reduce their domestic program, and nor should they, children should always be raised by their biological parents first, and then in country. This is a requirement of the Hague as well.
Where my friend is volunteering that particular CWI use to be open to IA, and the Director has ceased all children going out of country. They have plenty of citizens wanting to adopt their babies. Another CWI only has SN’s children,
and they say that they submit files to the CCAA and that their children find overseas homes very quickly. My ds’s
Director mentioned that she heard that China is making more restrictions, I don’t know what they could possibly be.
She heard this from another CWI that allows IA. However,
this same person said that the CCAA will never say the program is closed, just hope that it will fade away and people will give up. This is what I have heard, this is not what I know for sure. They also mentioned, nobody can ever know for sure what is really going on, because the people that are close relationship with the CCAA don’t even know.
I agree with the Chinese culture comment, they will not directly tell you NO, but will reassure you in other ways, however, this does not mean they will take action. This comes from my Asian family as they also do this. They are
sensitive about offending.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
kylasfamily, i never said that it was the most beneficial outcome for the children. The children need a home, plain and simple. They will loved and taken care of to the best of the parents ability no matter where they go. I’m only offering suggestions on how the backlog could be erased.
The reason they could postpone a PERCENTAGE (not the entire amount) of their domestic program is because they would still be benefiting both programs at the same time. There would be a real “speed up” of their international adoptions with a clearer end date to when the backlog would be completed. They could then revamp their domestic adoptions to 100% and still allow for only international adoption for SN children.
Let’s think about it for a second. If they postponed 25% of their DA and assumed that they had 20k DA’s take place a year (I would say that’s a very low amount for the size of their country). That would put 5k NSN children in the IA program and could possibly rid the current backlog in a matter of 2 years. If 25% is too large of number then think about the real amount of DA’s that take place a year and multiply it by a smaller percentage like 5%, that’s still a lot of new children being made available.
So if China’s ultimate goal is to keep all children within their borders by increasing their DA then what’s the best way to get rid of the HUGE backlog of waiting families? I would say that the faster they get rid of the backlog, the faster they can put all of their focus on DA.
Matt
October 30th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Although I agree that people should not go SN just to reduce wait times, I have to say from my experience that NSN children many times have as many or more issues as SN children. they are just not medically diagnosed into a category. to wait years and years with the assumption that an NSN child is going to be perfect or have less issues than an SN child is not an accurate statement.
Granted, there are SNs that some folks cannot handle or do not want to handle. that is a serious and valid consideration.
To discount the SN program as wrong to reduce wait time because some families can only handle a child without needs is a dangerous assumption also. When I ws in china I met many NSN children while picking up my SN child that I probably woudl have a very difficult time parenting given the severety of issues presented. It clearly is not a black and white choice of wait or not wait. Much more consideration is needed that that. I think people SHOULD consider SN based upon my experiences but they also SHOULD have a realistic expectation to what exactly NSN means too. Like a bio child, an NSN child will have issues that are not foreseen or foreplanned. At least with my SN child I know she got more attention and care due to her SN and her SN was known to me as I specifically requested it. Because of that added care due to her SN, she does not exhibit some of the more severe emotional and development issues (or unknown medical issues) of the NSN child.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
quote from MattandHeather
“So if China’s ultimate goal is to keep all children within their borders by increasing their DA then what’s the best way to get rid of the HUGE backlog of waiting families? I would say that the faster they get rid of the backlog, the faster they can put all of their focus on DA.?”
A very simple way to reduce the backlog and focus on DA is to shut down the IA program. Send all the waiting dossiers back and there is suddenly no backlog. We have no contract for a child and there is nothing keeping MoCA from shutting down the program. They are under no legal obligation to do anything about the backlog and joining the line came with no promise of anything (and in fact came with lots of warnings about what could happen)
October 30th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
regardless of whether someone is considering SN to get a referral sooner or not, it places an unfair burden on families waiting for a NSN referral when a family can find a child and pay an agency to get an LOI out regardless of LID date and amount of time in the system. this seems extremely unfair to me and some agencies balance this fairly and other agencies use this loophole to get more clients.
the unfairness is that families that do not have the SN option or choose not to consider it continue to wait and wait and wait while some agencies abuse this loophole to add to their bottom line. It screams UNFAIR and it should stop.
I am all for SN adoption for many reasons. I am also all for NSN adoption and that may be why I had my feet in both lines. I am not at all for agencies padding their profits by matching a limited amount of children to new clients while the folks they have already placed in the system languish and age and age and age and give up hope of a family.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Can someone refresh my memory and post a link to the new guidelines? I am getting nervous. My age is going up……but, my husband is 3 years younger, I hope that helps.
J
October 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
as to placing children in IA over domestic to reduce wait times I have two concerns.
this goes against the grain of the Hague that recommends that childs culture be given preference when placing a child which gives precedence to domestic adoption, and secondly, if domestic is allowed to wait while wait times for IA is decreased, then a new flood of applicants will hit the IA queue because wait times are coming down. this just postpones the wait for a future family waiting.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Matt, I think you have made some good points. And while I don’t think they would ever deny/delay/decrease domestic adoptions, I agree that doing that with a very small percentage would impact DA minimally but IA in a big way. We know they won’t but they could shorten the wait in this way.
Hague issues aside, I do think this is a subjective issue. Many, probably most, people think a child’s birth country is the best place for that child to be raised. Personally, over the years (and way before I even thought about adoption) I began to think of myself as a global citizen. Social, economic and political issues aside, who’s to say the best country to raise a child? Does a child have a loving, nurturing, healthy, educational environment to live? If so, then chances are they will grow up to be a smart, caring, compassionate and well-adjusted adult.
Obviously this is just my opinion and I’m in no way trying to convince anyone to my way of thinking — just offering a different point of view.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
My agency thinks option 1, I think. They have not said it specifically to us, but we did have a deeply awkward phone conversation with one of the new people (who I think said more than she should have) where she congratulated us on having the ‘foresight’ to pursue a concurrent adoption by saying that she guessed it wasn’t really concurrent, based on the new rules ‘coming down the pike’, and that she would be sorry to see ‘families like ours’ never have the opportunity to go to China.
And when I said we were not planning on pulling our China dossier and were still pursuing our China adoption, she said she knew WE were still planning on going to China, but…. and then there was a long, long pause, which stretched out into the most awkward silence, ever, and then she quickly said ‘good luck with it all’ and hung up.
We are not giving up until they shove us out of the program, but if we did not have a concurrent plan in place I would have been hysterical by the end of that long, long silent pause.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
PIJill,
that is sad but I beleive not out of the realm of possibility. I and no, I am not up for election so I am not just using scare tactics to gain your approval. it is a real possibility and may be the only rule change to come down the pike in 09. the only thing i can say is keep your fingers crossed and keep hoping. AND if you have any options please exercise them responsibly.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
OH NOOOOOOO I knew I should not have used the e word in that post as it is awaiting moeration.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
hikinglorax,
yeah the could do that, but that would go against their sense of pride and the amount of backlash and poor publicity they would receive. but yeah they could do that.
AW,
I had mentioned in my “scenario” that they would only take SN applications on a going forward basis. Thus, to finish the backlog with the idea of not creating a new one.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
matt,
yup saw that. guilty of reading too fast once more LOL
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Why does everyone make it seem like being referred a SN child is a piece of cake. I am open to many different SN and I’m been waiting for over 9 months in the SN line. I’m LID 4/07. Meanwhile, many in 08 are being referred SN that I have listed I would consider. Not that I’m not happy for them but I really wish that loophole would close up. As far as I’m considered SN line isn’t any shorter – at least for me yet.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Let’s not turn this into a SN vs NSN discussion. Some SN children have less emotional issues because they got more attention, but some SN children have even more emotional issues, because they did not get much attention plus they had to deal with whatever pain or discomfort and sometimes even taunting and ostracism (for older kids) they got due to their SN. Not all SWI’s give special attention to the SN babies, some of them treat the SN children as defective/not as worthy, and don’t give them as much attention as even the NSN children may get. Some of them are the other way around, there is no one formula that is right, so don’t expect that a SN child will have less emotional/attachment stuff to deal with, it’s not always the case. Sometimes, yes. Always, certainly not.
If a family feels drawn to the SN program then they should have that option, and not all families do. I think the rules should change so that families who want to switch to the SN program can, but I don’t see the CCAA working towards that goal at this point.
But, I don’t think it’s fair to try to tell families that they may be better off with a SN child than they would with a NSN child. That’s not fair to the child who has a SN and who needs a family who is prepared to deal with whatever that SN is. It’s true that in a small percentage of cases SN children arrive home in much better shape than the average NSN child, but it’s not true for the majority of cases.
Yes, I would guess that a majority of the NSN babies can be classified as SN at least for a little while once they arrive home. TT certainly could, and she had multiple therapy appointments for a long time to try to help her. She still has speech therapy, and her speech therapist said she will likely need speech therapy help until she is 6 or 8 years old.
____
The Hague says children must go to families in the country as the first option and can only be adopted internationally if no domestic option is available. The CCAA can not, nor should they, divert babies that could be raised in their home countries to send them overseas where they will be the minority. However, I know that there are SWI’s with babies that aren’t being adopted either domestically or internationally, so it’s really a mute point.
___
No one ever said life would be fair.
____
I believe the agencies with the best SN policies are those that allow families to submit the SN they feel comfortable with and they start a waiting list based on when parents fill out the SN paperwork. Then when a child’s file comes to them with that SN they look to the next person on their waiting lists who feels comfortable with that SN and they give the family a set amount of time to accept or not accept, and if they don’t accept then the file goes to the next on their waiting list.
I think the agencies that make families basically fight over kids and submit why they are the best parent for each child are doing a huge disservice to both the babies and the PAPs.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Everyone thinks if China tightens the rules on those logged in or shuts down the program entirely for NSN they would be worried about bad press, how it would look, etc. I completely disagree. I think all they would have to say is we no longer have a need for NSN adoptions, we are following Hague guidelines and keeping all of our children in country for DA. They would not look bad for doing this, they would look like they are doing the right thing for the children. They have never promised anyone a child, they have let us apply to be considered for a child. I think some people are fooling themselves if they think CCAA will not do something to not look bad, they wouldn’t look bad IMO.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
RQ,
that seemed like it was addressed to me so I will respond.
I did not say always. I said from my experience. My ego is not so huge that I think my experience is everyones experience. I think you took some huge liberties in my words there.
I said it is just as foolish to assume a child, because it is NSN, is healthy as it is to assume that accepting an SN child will be unmanageable for most and therefore not worthy of consideration as a wait shortening option.
some people will not form a family unless they consider that option specifically (if they even have the option) and therefore should not be told it is not right to consider.
If people did not consider the real potential for issues in an NSN child then it is just as valid to state that they should not wait around and hope to get lucky.
it goes both ways. You are prepared for the decision that you have made or you are not. If you are not then get out of line and let someone who is prepared be a parent. SN or NSN.
I don’t see any always there.
JFCA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do agree this has little to do with the spanish announcement but there really isn’t any new news there is there. Just more of the same. Therefore this became a chat of what might change wait times. what should or should not be considered. it turned to SN when I mentioned the loophole that is so unfairly left open for agencies to abuse.
discussions morph. I think that we are discussing what might or might not speed things up and that is in the nature of the first post.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
“4ever Says: I am open to many different SN and I’m been waiting for over 9 months in the SN line. I’m LID 4/07.”
4ever, we have been in the SN line almost since the beginning and we are LID 5/06. We are also open to many SN’s. I don’t think the SN program is fair at all.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I never said always and I never said majority. I said my experience and my ego is not so huge to think my experience represents most and hardly all.
When my first post makes it here, if it does, this will sound redundant.
Sorry.
Testing the system today.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
test
October 30th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Looks like I am hitting allhe no no words today as 2 posts are now waiting.
I guess I should have figured out what the bad words were before I quit moderating LOL.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I saw this @ work. After I read the post I felt like I had the wind knocked out of me for some reason.
I don’t know what to think.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I will add before AW gets released on parole, LOL, that I don’t agree that they no longer have a need. My only point is they could easily justify whatever they wanted. I undersatnd they may still have SWI’s full of children, but if they say they are trying to focus on DA, how could anyone argue with them? They have been hinting at that for a while now. We can say we disagree, but it is their program.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I honestly can’t understand why the CCAA would continue to take Dossiers at this point if they want to stop or slow down the process more……..I have been confused since our log in the Spring 2006………..I feel like I am starting to get used to the constant confusion and drama or maybe I am just burned out, but, we will stay in until the end, whether that be getting a baby or……….the unspeakable…….not getting one. I refuse to quit.
October 30th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Noendinsight: I’m sorry that you are waiting so long.
I just don’t understand how some people can get their SN referrals when they are not even LID. Some agencies are making the SN program their windfall while the rest of us wait and wait and wait. Hopefully you won’t have to wait for too much longer.
October 30th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
PIJill – what is your LID?
October 30th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I wonder how long they will let people continue to suffer and worry until they announce the “new rules”. I just can’t believe they continue to take new clients. My fear for people is that they will only do the rest of 2006 and that will be the end of IA in China. I just hope they make decisions before people continue to pay thousands of dollars for updating paperwork again. Plus, we need to get on with our lives, and move on if this is the way it has to be. Sorry, but how much “up and down” can someone take??
October 30th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
With regard to the SN program. Each agency operates it differently. Our first all china agency makes people start out as NSN until they recieve a referral and then switch programs. Our second agency allows you to choose what line from the get go. When it comes to SN, quick referrals (even those before LID or DTC for that matter) have everything to do a families openess to many special needs, as well as age of child and gender. We never intented to adopt NSN. We specifically wanted SN. We are a family blessed with healthy (relatively speaking) kids at home and wanted to adopt a child with managable or correctable needs. Our list was quite long of what we were open to adopting. In addition, we did not want a “baby” been there done (with multiples )that — we wanted a child between 2.5 – 5 years old. We also were open to a child that had more than one special need. In my heart, I knew my next children were cleft lip/palate kids. Our adopted daughter had three – came home with only one–the others were wrong. We received her referral very fast and were home with her less than a year from when we signed up with our big china only agency. Why so fast? There were many familes ahead of us, but none that wanted a 3 year old girl with three needs…we were the only ones will to take on her epilepsy diagnosis –no one else in that large list of famlies had checked that box. So we got the super speedy referral and as it turns out she does not have epilepsy.
For our second adoption, we stayed the course of wanting a 3 – 6 year old with mulitple special needs but this time a boy. Since we have two sets of kids the same age (twins) we wanted another close in age to meimei. Not many people want boys this age so once again we got a very very fast referral. His needs are very managable and have been corrected in China. He will come home at five years old. Not many people were open to this age.
So when you read and hear about why some people get fast SN referrals and why others wait in line. Or wonder why don’t they make all SN families wait in line…you can see that my two SN adopted child are not the kiddos that most on this list would adopt.
Those of us that go into special needs adoption not looking for as young as possible and or minor needs tend to be those that receive their referrals faster since there are many more children falling into these categories.
I was asked several times why did we go through the process so fast as others were waiting for so long. I had several people send me nasty emails off internet groups becuase we had a fast referral.
What people need to understand is the simple fact that the harder the child is to place the faster the child will be placed if there is a family out there open to their need. This does not matter if they are on an agency special list — which only a couple agencies are getting routinely or the greater shared list. It is high school economics supply and demand. China has clearly placed an emphasis on their SN program and working hard to expidite it while the NSN folks painfully watch the months go by.
Please do not take this post as a SN vs NSN. I just wanted to clarify the issue of why so fast? or why the SN line? I think some people new to the process do not understand that there is a lot more to in the detials of a SN referral than meets the eye. Many that will not be discussed and rightfully so to protect the children…
samba in sac
http://www.talesfromthebigtomato.blogspot.com
October 30th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
The thought of applying new rules to old applicants chills me deep down into my bones!!! That could very well be a possibility and being the time of year when new rules could be presented… ACK!!!
October 30th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
4ever,
I understand how people who aren’t logged in can get a referral. There are kids who sit and wait and wait on lists because they have needs that no one who is LID with that agency is comfortable with. We were one of those families who saw a child like that, committed to her without LID yet after we spent weeks researching a need. Sometimes, just because a family is LID before another doesn’t mean they are more qualified to parent a child with a specific need either. It happens all the time that families are offered referrals of children with needs they said they could accept and when confronted with the reality decide they can not. This is not unusual.
I, too, have great sympathy for those who wait and wait for a referral, whether they are SN or NSN. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with agencies advocating for children they do not have placements for within their agency to families who have not signed with them yet. And a smart potential AP, interested in SN, will keep their options open with the realities being what they are today.
Again, I am sorry for those who wait. But our adopting a child who languished on a list has nothing to do with the length of her wait… How it can be considered a windfall is beyond me as well. It’s a child’s life. Whether someone else waits longer for referral when they are with another agency has nothing to do with it. CCAA made the SN process agency specific… so this is how it happens sometimes.
Perhaps some agencies are misusing the system in the way you mention. I won’t contest it. But to say you just don’t understand how someone can get a referral without being LID is a bit inflammatory. Because even in today’s competitive SN environment, there are still kids who wait and will never be adopted. LID or not, they need parents, too.
October 30th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
I find it ironic that the Hague agreement is in opposition to China’s desire to lower its population. What is in the children’s best interests may not be in China’s best interests.
Jess
October 30th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Yes, that’s right…….Trick or Treat! – November IS the time of year for the appearance of new policies and rules for the CCAA! And sometimes rule changes don’t grandfather. To speculate, singles are always in jeopardy; or maybe the CCAA will implement their former old rule of SN adoption subsequent to NSN adoption? Maybe those with “x” quantity children or more already in home will be rejected…..Yikes! This is terrible! Having said all this, with all that is occurring in the World re. financial markets – this may impact prospective Chinese parents of DA AND us in the West too…..so there may be a “natural” shift to reduce applications in varying areas. Ultimately, I think the CCAA would prefer to make things even more unappealing to IA PAP to encourage more self-opting out of the programs. :((((((( This is a HUGE matter for my daughter – she will be beyond devastated if we are forced from the programme…..
October 30th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
WE have to hang in there!
October 30th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
cab21404,
congrats on becoming a foster mom. my dh and I began classes only to find out that in our state in order to be approved to foster or foster adopt we would have to drop our china adoption and have a written letter from our agency stating that we had done so. So we continue to wait because I was unwilling to drop our adoption in China.
October 30th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
I feel like penelope1! I was at work too when I read this and have felt sick sense. Yes, life isn’t fair and yes, the CCAA has every right to do what they want and yes, I too feel a first choice should be domestic adoption for a child. However, I signed up with a country that said that it’s open to international adoption and continues to remain open. I’ve been paper pregnant for 20 months and to loose this child will hurt ever bit as much as if I had been biologically pregnant, maybe even more with the vested interest of time. China has said, yes we accept dossiers and to now kick mine out would be to me, going against their word. And, that’s how I feel but I all too well know that feelings ( and it often times feels children too) don’t matter.
October 30th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
i tend to vacillate between believing our community is a supportive one, and that we freak each other right out!
regarding China stopping accepting new dossiers – dont the agencies use the money new applicants are putting in now to cover the costs of families travelling now, who paid their fees over 3 years ago? if dossiers stopped being accepted, then how would our agencies survive, especially china-only agencies? they would have no annual revenue to continue on.
i have been told by our agency, and i believe i have read it here too, that if you are currently in line, no matter how loooooooong the line is, you will receive a referral. they wont change the rules on us. i believe this. wholeheartedly. yes, it may take longer than we had hoped. but it will happen!!!!
October 30th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
ellabee………….
well said. I agree completely.
AW
October 30th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
My post is “waiting moderation” but please forgive my typos. I was very emotionally plucking away on my iPhone.
I really appreciated your comments ellabee, and your “we freak each other right out” gave me a good chuckle. We do jump to many conclusions here at times and I’m going to choose to hold back anymore freaking out until the CCAA officially does something to warrant freaking out.
“sense”- since
“loose”- lose
October 30th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Ellabee – you cracked me up! I totally agree…we DO tend to “freak each other out”…LOL. Let’s all *try* to stay positive until there is some concrete news. Who knows? Something positive may happen and actually surprise us!
Come on CCAA…match, match, MATCH!!!!
October 31st, 2008 at 1:23 am
Hello to all,
I’m fluent in Spanish and after reading the article, it doesn’t say anything different of what we all know and facts as:
Time waiting incress, families looking for other IA alternatives, new countries being aproveed for IA for Spanish citizens, decress in families Spanish parents adopting from China because of the long wait,
October 31st, 2008 at 1:39 am
sorry, didn’t finish writing (no spell check or read it either) and I accidentally click the “submit comment”… :(
(continue… again)
Hello to all,
I’m fluent in Spanish and after reading the article, it doesn’t say anything different of what we all know and facts as:
Time waiting increase, families looking for other IA alternatives, new countries being approved for IA for Spanish citizens, decrees in families Spanish parents adopting from China because of the long wait,
New regulations being implemented on April 2007 by CCAA, a little bit of IA China history, 33 months of waiting and it keeps going, Cataluña region as an example of less applications submitted for China per year based on numbers (statistics) of decrees, etc.
The article does not state anything about the Spanish government talking with the Chinese CCAA officials or authorities about wait times, it states facts we all know.
It explains why this is happening and in Spain specifically.
Hope this helps.
October 31st, 2008 at 2:55 am
The stats on this news paper are only for Catalonia, one of the 17 autonomus regions that we have in Spain.
If you want to see wholr Spain stats, clic this link. The stats are from the Ministry for Social Affairs. Here you can see all numbers by countrys where the child come from and years.
http://issuu.com/robpili/docs/adopciones_2003_2007/3?mode=embed&documentId=081005151340-b012191435644357a8f37cd83b6788f0&layout=grey
I hope it will help you.
Carmen
CCAA 3/3/06 (not so far…)
October 31st, 2008 at 6:01 am
hi all, my husband and i are from europe and still waiting to join the que, we are due to go to panel in march (it has been delayed due to my step daughters pregnancy!)
i was wondering if the waiting parents in china have to meet the same criteria as us intercountry parents. can they have a child living at home already? if so then allowing chinese parents to adopt would defeat the whole point of the one child policy and the reason many of these children are given up, as keeping the children in their country would still keep the population up, if they are staying in the country then they could have stayed with their birth families.
i am not against chinese adopting their own children at all, just thought it might be an interesting point.
i too am wondering if china adoption is getting further out of reach, i do believe that those in the que will eventually be matched but those of us just joining, i’m not so sure.
still fingers crossed that we all make it , if there are babies sat in swi’s not being matched, then why aren’t they? i’m sure between us we could house them and love them all.
Emma x
October 31st, 2008 at 8:44 am
I know this post won’t help a lot of families caught in the midst of all this as many don’t have the option of switching programs (agencies, finances, countries, etc.) and my heart so goes out to you. But for those who do have other programs open to them but feel their hearts committed to China, I just want to put this out there.
Many of you probably remember my older posts, my commitment to China and my never-ending belief that I would find my way to my little girl. I even named her, my little Lucia Grace, and I was determined with everything I am to wait things out. I also had my first daughter, adopted from China, begging me to wait for her, and insisting that her sister was in China. I was determined to wait 10 years if that’s what it would take.
But, to my surprise, on just the right day and at just the right moment, I agreed to look, JUST LOOK, at a Waiting Children’s list from another program. And there she was. The minute I saw her, my heart felt so much joy and so much love for this beautiful, amazing little girl, her deep beautiful eyes and a smile that could light up the sky. I knew, in one split second, that she was my daughter; and we were matched six days later. Never in a million years would I have imagined that my second child was anywhere in the world other than China; but to my surprise, she was.
I won’t lie. Leaving China was painful. There has been grieving, heartache, even guilt…”Did I leave one child to find another.” The little girl I waited for, my little Lucia Grace, will always, ALWAYS, live in my heart; and in a sense, she WAS my daughter. But as I’ve reconciled all that has changed in the past few months, I’ve grown to understand that she wasn’t my ONLY daughter. There was another little girl in another part of the world whom I truly believe needed us more; and fortunately for all of us, we found our way to her.
If you have other programs open to you, just take a look. You don’t have to pursue them. Just take a look. You never know who you may find waiting for you.
Peace and love to all.
October 31st, 2008 at 8:46 am
It would not suprize me to see tighter limits on the number of children already at home. If childless PDAP’s in China are being “passed over” for large families in the West, one could argue that the PDAP is “more deserving” particularly in light of the law that states DA first – IA only as a last resort.
The 2008 placement numbers from the State Department should be out soon – that will be the best indicator of the state of the program. In reality many of the child that will be adopted in the second half of 2009 have not been born yet so everthing going forward is a guess. It’s all about how many are in line in front of you, and unfortunatly DA get to cut to the front of the line.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:13 am
CCAA has stated that those that wait in line will get a referral and I believe that.
October 31st, 2008 at 10:14 am
I wish we could get over the ‘everyone’ gets a referral stuff. Nearly everyone gets a referral. Not everyone does, and you can be denied in the matching phase, in the same way that you can pass the review room and then months/years later to be questioned about items in your dossier that you assumed were fine because you passed review. It is very unlikely to be denied at the point of matching, but it can happen. And it doesn’t matter if it is one in a thousand, when you are that one, something I had the bad fortune to witness last year, and we have seen other family’s stories come up on APC and here.
October 31st, 2008 at 10:50 am
Katiebug,
What state do you live in????
October 31st, 2008 at 11:19 am
The new requirements last time that began 5/1/07 were announced on 12/8/06. Rumors however, had begun as early as August 2006. I think they have a meetings in November???
If this is going to happen, I just want to find out NOW. I can’t take much more of this. We are days away from our 30 month LID anniversary.
October 31st, 2008 at 11:24 am
“The 2008 placement numbers from the State Department should be out soon – that will be the best indicator of the state of the program.”
Does anyone know when these numbers become available or when they have been in the past?
PIJill you relayed a conversation in a prior post you had with your agency. Can you share your LID, or at least the month?
Thanks!
October 31st, 2008 at 12:07 pm
True there are many who receive SN referrals who are accepting children with more severe SN and I admire people who are willing to do so. And they definitely should be able to pursue those adoptions ASAP. However, there is are many, many people who are also receiving minor/correctable SN who are just recently LID. It all depends on luck. I understand that but it still feels frustrating to be disappointed month after month.
October 31st, 2008 at 1:06 pm
regarding China stopping accepting new dossiers – dont the agencies use the money new applicants are putting in now to cover the costs of families travelling now, who paid their fees over 3 years ago? if dossiers stopped being accepted, then how would our agencies survive, especially china-only agencies? they would have no annual revenue to continue on
*******************************************
The problem I have with that is it is starting to sound like a ponzi scheme and ponzi schemes are illegal. It is illegal for a business to accept money from customers today to keep their business afloat knowing that customers who are paying today will not have a turn and will not have a referral in the future.
Agencies should have been practicing better money management. Before the slow down, referrals were coming in fast, really fast, faster than ever before. Agencies should have been safe guarding this extra wealth for the times when referrals slow down. If they managed their money well, between good management and the few nsn adoptions and sn adoptions they are currently placing most should be able to whether the storm.
October 31st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
“regarding China stopping accepting new dossiers – dont the agencies use the money new applicants are putting in now to cover the costs of families travelling now, who paid their fees over 3 years ago?”
It depends on the agency. Our agency does not invoice for the Program Fee until AFTER referral. Prior to referral, we paid a nominal application fee, the homestudy fee, and the dossier fee.
Our friends are with an agency that required ALL of the fees, including the Program and Post-Placement fees, prior to sending their dossier to China.
October 31st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
With regards to SN’s. We went that route because we wanted to, we wanted a boy, older than 3 and with a SN’s that we could handle. There were about 4 families that adopted boys. Our agency said that boys are hard to place with SN’s and our process went very quickly. After we came home, our agency changed their SN’s program completely. They chose the families who petitioned for the most desirable children, always a girl, under 2 and with very minor needs. Some children had 20 families petitioning for them. It lead to a lot of hurt feelings, anger, disappointment and resentment towards those families who were chose. Now of course, it has changed even more with the CCAA in far more control. They also have made new rules and are very selective about families. However, they are no longer receiving files for the most desirable children (for want of a better word) as they are now considered NSN’s because they have had surgery to correct whatever was wrong (minor) and are now deemed
NSN’s.
We are lucky we adopted our sweet boy when we did, he is an angel, and far less work than most NSN children.
We are lucky to have 2 healthy dd’s, one from Haiti, one from China and our China prince.