Some Clarifications
The letter from the CCAA did indeed say that the donation will now be paid in RMB (yuan) instead of dollars. So far it looks like agencies are telling families to bring dollars and the guides/facilitators in China will help them change dollars to yuan. I’m guessing that eventually agencies will be able to wire it again, but for now it appears that at least some of the ones who were wiring it are going back to doing it the old fashioned way.
There are actually two ways to read the letter. In a positive frame of mind one would read it that the babies not eligible for adoption (i.e. they have a living relative, or have a severe SN that keeps them off of the SN lists) will now have more funds available for them. In a negative frame of mind though (and what else is there right now?) it reads that the babies that they aren’t bothering to make paper ready will have more funds available for their raising.
The thing is, the amount has remained the same for a really long time, and when you compound that with the changes in exchange rates, we all knew it was coming. Families should have already been preparing for it, since some provinces have been requiring it already, and until you get your referral you don’t know what province you’ll be going to. Sure, it would have been better if they’d raised it by a thousand dollars a few years ago and then another thousand now. Or even 500 every couple of years. But, they didn’t, and now they are making up for it.
As for negative vs positive re the possible cut-off date, in the past we’ve let people vent about a small batch when the news hits, but then once referrals arrive then venting is over and it’s time to celebrate for the ones who manage to make it into a batch. It makes it hard when we don’t know it ahead of time, but when we do know it (or have a good idea) then I think it’s good to get the venting over with so we can then be happy for the ones who did manage to make the cut.
On most months someone will miss the cut-off by a day or two. If we’re going to average five days a month then you’ve got a one in five chance of missing it by a day. This month, missing the cut-off by a few days is the difference in having a picture for Christmas and not having a picture for Christmas. Can we allow people their pain over that? When it’s finally your turn, if you miss it by a day, are you going to decide it’s not painful because there are people in line behind you? No, you’ll likely rant and rave and vent for a little bit, and then pick yourself up and say “hey, I’m next”. Everyone has their own pain, and on this site we are supportive. If the 23rd does turn out to be the cut-off then this will be a small batch that follows a small batch.
So, for everyone out there, I support you in whatever frame of mind you happen to be in today. If you are looking for the silver lining of that cloud then more power to you. Or if you are wallowing around in your own cloud of misery at the moment then I support you in that, too. For most people I think surviving the wait means spending some time in both places.
As of now we’re still at an R3 with the 23rd-as-cut-off rumor, but it’s starting to be a high R3.
A few people asked about the review room the other day. Some agencies are aware that their March families are out of review. If your agency has told you this, then you can breathe a bit easier. However, not all of March is out of review, so if your agency hasn’t notified you, then you should not assume you are out of review.
December 9th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Very well said RQ. Thank you.
December 9th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I’m beside myself right now!! My palms are sweating and my heart is popping out!!! Come on Stork — Land!!!!!
LID – 2-23-06
December 9th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Well, I missed the cut-off by 6 days and I’m still bummed and I’m pretty sure I’ll miss the next month by 1 day. It stinks but I usually do dust myself off and enjoy seeing the referral pictures. So bring em on!! :-)
December 9th, 2008 at 11:41 am
As we say in the Feb 2006 room, “Let that bird loose!”
lid 2/24/06
December 9th, 2008 at 11:42 am
RQ, you’re the voice of reason, as always. Thanks for allowing all of us to express our views. And a big congratulations to those getting referrals (hopefully any minute now) …. and hugs to those that are next, and to those nowhere near next. It must be very hard to be so close and then not have a picture for Christmas, but the torture WILL be over very soon. Also, I know we’ve said it before, but those w/early 07 LIDs were mostly told a 12 month wait when beginning the process in the summer of 06 – big difference from a 1 year wait to the 8 (ha) years it could be. I’ve said before too, if we had honest updates from the agencies and government officials I think we’d all feel better about waiting.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
I’m more mad about the fee increase than I am about the possible 6 day batch. I realize fees can change at a moments notice and yes, I know that they haven’t raised the fees in quite some time. But don’t come asking for more money if your not going to provide a better service. Give me something in return, like a little more communication, honest updates, and maybe even faster service.
Like someone else had mentioned on a previous post, when is it alright to get angry? Fees have gone up, timelines have continued to increase and we get ZERO information from our agencies.
Matt
LID 9/2006
December 9th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I am with you “sitting tight”…I can’t hardly stand it! I have even taken PTO at the hospital (my job) this week…just cuz’ I am a hot mess!
LID 2/23/06
December 9th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I am angry too about the fee increase and at a time where less is given. I am happy to make the required donation and understand that it did have to increase but just frustrated about the longer wait time. I think many of us would be delighted to give an even bigger donation if we could see a few 20 day batches!!! Good luck to all those waiting on the referral batch now. Looking forward to the pictures.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Matt,
I think the increase in fees is way over due. Yes, I too wish that they would of course as a result of the increase they would do more referrals & that things would have a better outlook for PAP’s & the children~I guess you could look at this one of two ways~One; MAYBE, they will get more babies paper ready. They will now get more funds for each child placed, right? So, why wouldn’t they? Or two~no, they won’t. Now they will just have more funds to care for the babies & keep them not paper ready & cared for in the orphanage. I suppose only time will tell. Back to the increased fee…if you search the Internet for other program fees-& I am certainly far from the expert, but it appears to me that China is about a fourth of what some of the others cost. This I believe is one of the huge reasons that China has the amount of waiting families that is does verses other countries. I realize that cost is far from the only reason that most families chose China, but I would imagine that it played a big part of many families decision. I have to wonder why programs like Taiwan & Korea doesn’t have as many families waiting…you know? The cost I think is a huge factor. I know we have checked into other programs & been quoted $15,000-$20,000 & that is without travel cost. Plus, we have went through two failed domestic placements & one was with an agency; one was private. I can tell you that in some cases that through an agency it can cost upwards of $25,000. Surrogacy can cost upwards of $30,000 & up in the $100′s even…I guess my point is just that, although increased fees that have to come out of our own pockets in regards to anything is not generally pleasing, I just feel that the increase in the “donation” is completely reasonable. Maybe I am wrong~maybe I have my facts incorrect & if so, I would welcome any correction of my statements that anyone could offer. Anyway~I guess I am just doing the math & it just seems like China is & always has been way less expensive than any other program out there. & that they continue to be even with the increase.
December 9th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Tarynsjourney~
You’re too funny!!! I hope we hear today!! If not today, tomorrow! Finally we can say we are next!! Good luck to you ~ Its been a long haul, but worth every ounce!!!
December 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I will be the first to admit I am bummed about the fee increase. Just when you think you might have enough money saved the fee’s change, up-dates need to be done and so on. I try to keep in mind all of the wonderfull hugs, kisses and sweet smiles will be worth every thousand spent! I can not wait to feel our little ones arms wrapped around my neck and sweet kisses on my cheek. I hope the fee increase will prompted more babies becoming paper ready. At this point I just want to get our referral, pay the fee’s and get on with our lives.
CONGRATULATONS to everyone receiving your referrals! I wish the CCAA would bring on MARCH!!!
http://www.ourchinaangel.com
December 9th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Congrats to all of you Feb 23 LIDers and for those of you left in Feb. The Marching Pandas are eager to march!
December 9th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the sentence in the CCAA letter where it says : “Such a move will not only result in more help for orphaned and handicapped children in social welfare institutes, but also satisfy the desire of more adoptive families to adopt from China, and stimulate the development of China’s international adoption program.”
December 9th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Increased donations indicate a larger pool of monies available to sustain and care for the children during their stay at the facility. I personally see that as an improvement to the program.
AW
December 9th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Matt
I’m sorry your agency has been less than forthcoming, but I think the beneficiary of the orphanage donation, the Chinese government, has been forthcoming (via direct communication and the press) about how the process works and the reasons for the protracted wait times.
http://www.china-ccaa.org/site/infocontent/LYBHF_20050811100550350_en.htm
http://www.china-ccaa.org/site%5Cinfocontent%5CSWSY_20071031110135605_en.htm
http://www.theorphansociety.org/upload/chineseadoption.pdf
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-08/20/content_6952813.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-11-20-Chinainside_N.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-11-20-chinaadopt_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
December 9th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Journey to Mia,
I said earlier that I know why they are changing their fee structure. However, it’s hard to get excited about paying more for the exact same thing, which is increased wait times, no information and the possibility that they could raise the fees again.
So if in 3 years when I’m still waiting for our child, and with a 9/20/06 LID that’s pretty likely, are they going to come back and say that “well we haven’t raised our fee in 3 years, so …” and I’m just supposed to accept it?
What I find interesting is how the letter focuses on how we can show our love and compassion to these children and it only focuses on our “donation” amount. If it’s really all for the children then have an agency sponsor a few orphanages and tell us what’s needed.
Matt
December 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
So glad you posted this RQ. I was waiting for everyone to be assigned a time-out corner!
We are all brothers and sisters in waiting. When you are on this ride for so long, people are bound to get testy.
We all go through the stages of waiting: wondering how others can complain when they are so close, finally getting so close and sometimes feeling bitter, exhausted, and numb because you have waited 5-6 times longer than you expected.
Okay, I finally spoke my peace. Congrats to all who are almost there and prayers for those waiting.
LID 2-24-06
December 9th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
WOW some of these comments sound as if we’re paying a waiter for a dining experience instead of adopting children. I don’t like the fee hike, and personally we have a tighter budget than most probably do, but it is what it is. If it helps foster better care for the children yet to be adopted, or for the children left behind, NEVER to be adopted, then that’s really a good cause. I have to believe that’s what it will do, otherwise, why continue to believe in any of this?
As for service being good…bad or otherwise, again these are CHILDREN. And they are China’s children. I do not envy the position of the decision makers, who are trying to find the balance between IA and gender imbalances…and pride of country.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Something in my head says that if they want more money for whatever reason, they have to continue to make babies paper ready. No adopting out means no money in. So they need to continue (at least, if not increase) to make babies ready for adoption to benefit from the raise. And that means every IA orphanage, not the CCAA or some big pot. So in my ears that is good news.
December 9th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
We are looking into other countries at this point and I hate to say it but from what I’ve seen – the other countries have higher fees than China. Even with the increase.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Our agency stated in a letter re. the increased fee that the SWI’s will sign an agreement with the adoptive family which will state the donation will be used for better care of the children residing in that orphanage. For some reason that makes me feel a little better. I hope it’s true.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Last month we went prepared to pay the increase in $$$. We had to pay a little over $3500 USD. We all knew the hike in the orphanage donation was coming. I think (I could be wrong) but several people on this site predicted that it would happen in January.
What shocks me is that (myself included) complain about the orphanage fee increasing but we don’t (or I didn’t, much) question how much it would cost to get fingerprinted or the I600A or the huge costs of plane tickets….or paying for authentication and notarization. That stuff nickel and dimed me to death. Atleast we know (or can hope) that the orphanage donation is helping to care for our kids while we wade thru the damned red tape. The money for the other stuff stays here in our country and is helping our children how? The way the economy looks, all that money isn’t doing much to stimulate….
I have a friend that adopted a baby girl maybe 6 years ago and she told me that the fingerprinting and I600a form was less than $200. Last November our fee was over $1200. None of that money took care of international orphans that we are adopting, right?
I hate it for the families now. Hang in there.
Lisa
December 9th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
In regards to cost of other programs
how much is a year worth? how much is 7 years worth?
If my agency was truthful back in March of 06
I would have signed up elsewhere, an extra 10k worth of debt compared to 6 additional years of my life
would have been worth it.
For us, more than likely
China will = nothing
so in that respect, this has cost a lot.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Does anyone know if the Approvals for SN children (Already pre-approved…waiting for final conformation and travel date) coincide with the NSN referrals? My husband and I are on pins and needles waiting to hear when we can go get our little girl!
December 9th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
I don’t frequently comment but I have to say “Excellent post RQ!” Everyone is entitled to there own feelings.
Congrats to those who will see their baby’s face this month.
Susie
LID 5/15/06
December 9th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Thanks once again, RQ, for your news and clarification.
I swear it feels we can’t cut a break… FINALLY it APPEARS we’re about to see the face of our loooooong awaited child… and yet, the excitement is dampened by the sickening in my stomach, that in 6 weeks (just after we’ve spent alot of money on Christmas presents) ~ we have to try and rummage up an extra US$2500 which equates to approx AUS$3800. And what’s more, we got our US$ when the market was high – and now it appears we don’t need US$, we need RMB?
I am truly ready to have a meltdown.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Wow $1,200 for fingerprints!! It cost us $100 for our fingerprints and then $20 each for our police check etc…
Matt – I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. I am not saying that I mind the increase because I don’t – especially if it can lead to a better running program and children that are better cared for, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating. We have a LID of Aug 06 and I figure we have between 2 1/2 – 3 years still to wait on top of our 27 months already and it is a little scary how everything can just change overnight – they could decide to raise it every year and there is nothing we could do about it but drop out and no one wants to do that.
When we started we were told 9 months (as most of us were) and now look at everything – it is just very difficult and it makes us feel very helpless – hense the frustration at times!
All we can do is try to support each other as much as possible and hope the wait gets shorter.
December 9th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
I’m guess I’m not in the best frame of mind. I agree w/ Matt. I’m sick and tired of being told it’s for the children. I know my agency has an entire division dedicated to orphaned children in China from paying for surgeries to supporting financially. I also know of another orphanage in China for blind children. We were interested in adopting one of the children (a 6-year-old girl) yet were told by our agency the children were not paper-ready and it would take over a year to become so. I’m very cynical of anything to do with Chinese adoption. I’m tired of waiting and waiting and waiting with no end in sight. Guess I can’t be all happy and cheerful about yet another cost to the growing expense of adoption and yet another year without being a parent.
December 9th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
While we are talking “clarification”. Is anyone able to shed some clarification on what the “in China” fees are for Visas, family photo, BLAS, etc which is as I know it on top of the “orphanage donation”.
And also what CWTS is charging for accommodation etc.
The most current figures would be surely appreciated as we are all in a spin over the very high and sudden impact of this on our budgets at this time.
Thanks
December 9th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
aust2china, todays exchange places 35,000RMB at $7741.43 Australian Dollars…..no wander you’re having a meltdown.
Hopefully someone will also clarify other costs we all have to face, but they seem to be kept so hush hush.
December 9th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Hi,
I’m new to this site but have been reading it for about a year now. We have been waiting now almost 3 years. I have received 3 LID….3/20/06, then 3/21/06…and now today, after calling my agency am told that it is actually the 16th! I know our day in the sun will soon come. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for all who will soon meet their new addition to their families.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:25 am
I believe they didn’t do a gradual increase because I think that the Chinese government needed a good “explanation” for a sudden speed-up that will arrive shortly. And it will all be attributed to the orphanage directors working overtime to get children (maybe all SN children but lots more children) “paper ready”.
A gradual increase over the last couple of years would have made more sense… IF you are just talking logic and reason and not propaganda.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:06 am
I really feel like we all need to start a campaign for the TRUTH.
As stated, I have no problems with China increasing the fees-but can they please follow through with adoptions? I am tired of people saying “they are China’s children”-BS. They do not “own” those kids. To imply that ANY of us are acting as though we are “paying a waiter for a dining experience” is not only rude but ridiculous. Nobody who is willing to go through the process of IA would ever compare paying fees for a child or to improve orphanges to eating out. Please! Let me guess, you have 3 kids right?
As for the comments related to other countries: well, for one, the fees are higher because: a. they are actually taking better care of the children, b. they are actually giving much more accurate wait times, c. they are following through, d. many of them do not require a trip to China (I.E. Korea). To compare Chinas program to another country is not comparing apples to apples. The countries with long waits can thank China.
All the CCAA has to do is TRY to determine an estimated wait time and just state it. This is really beginning to look like a scam…..when I tell people, they cannot believe it. Even my 6 year old neice understands that it should not take 3+ years to adopt a baby! How sad.
BTW, a good friend of mine works with a woman whose mother is in China right now volunteering in an orphanage. She said China has so much money from the Olympics that that it is a joke to think that $3000 matters. The money MIGHT make it to the orphange, might not but if the government actually cared, there would not be 1/2 million+ babies waiting when there are only an estimated 50,000 dossiers waiting to for a match. Do the math. She also says there are “plenty” of babies and no-one understands why the babies are not “ready”. Sounds like money is NOT the issue.
December 10th, 2008 at 3:48 am
This is what I just LOVE about people – Dadin2007 is mad so he has to go and insult a whole bunch of us who have nothing to do with it (Hey Dad, I have 3 kids, what exactly are you getting at here?) GOOD GRIEF.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Ease up, socal. Yes, Dadin2007 pointed out that it tends to be people who already have children who tell others that it’s not so bad or they shouldn’t feel the way they do – which happens a lot. But it wasn’t directed to you or to “a whole bunch” of you – it was directed to the one person who make the dining out analogy. GOOD GRIEF.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I agree that we need to campaign for the truth. It is certainly lacking in China IA. I know we have all been warned against this (see the US State department page), but I think that’s why we all feel so helpless – we’ve been forced into submission. So we wait like little sheep.
December 10th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Well okay then emory…I’m tired of people with no kids (like you, I assume?) being nasty to those of us who do. There, directed at one person only (you). Must be okay now!
No one tried to invalidate anyone’s feelings. Assuming the “dining out” analogy came from someone with “3 kids”? On a forum like this? Come on now.