Special Needs Statistics
In the past I’ve looked at the special needs stats a few times and come to the conclusion that there is no way to make predictions about a specific timeline for a family adopting through that program. There were a few things that could be said, though the main point was that a family already through review generally made it through the process faster than a family not yet through the review room. But beyond that, there didn’t seem to be much rhyme or reason to who had to wait a month vs who had to wait three or four months. Now it looks like the maximum end of that might be closer to two or three months instead of three or four months. That’s nice to see: a month less that these babies have to spend in an orphanage, perhaps not getting much needed medical attention.
But, back to my point. I haven’t checked in on the process in a while but I see that you’ve got a pretty good chart going in the forum. (That’s where I got the idea that the waits look to be less than they were the last time I did the math myself.)
I still get emails from people telling me when they sent their LOI and asking when I think they will travel. Unless I manage to find a working crystal ball, there is really no way for me to answer those questions. But I still wish I could, because I understand the need to be able to answer that question.
So I guess what I’m asking today, is whether there is anything I can be doing to help out the families in the SN program. In the past we’ve ascertained that it’s chaotic enough that there is no way to make predictions. Do you think that is still the case? From looking through the chart in the forum, I would guess that it is still the case. But I’m not really familiar enough with things to be able to say. So, I’m asking.
March 13th, 2009 at 9:21 am
We are waiting to bring home our SN little girl and I love the SN fourm. I check it faithfully to see what is happening. With the new Hague paperwork, it has really been a lifesaver. The chartkeepers are awesome!
March 13th, 2009 at 10:11 am
The reason it is hard to give time frames for SN is because we all come into it at different places. Some start from the beginning SN other switch over. Some are able to get LOI before completing DTC other not until they are LID. Then you add the Hague process into it and add more time into the equation.
There are certain parts of the process that are becoming more perdictable. That is were the chart keeping has helped. The main charts to watch are Waiting for I-800a approval, Waiting LOA, Waiting TA, and now the new chart Waiting 800 aprroval & DS-230.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:46 am
I have noticed that for the past 2 years, this time of year seems to have a 2-3 month maximum wait. But, for the past 2 years, as it gets closer to August/Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec that maximum wait stretches out to 3-4 months for LOA.
The best thing those charts are good for is knowing when you are likely to get LOA as those around you who are in similar situation are getting theirs. Then, by using the charts you will know definitively IF your paperwork is lost and skipped. ;)
March 13th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
There are a few things I’m curious about–are people finding that their agencies are locking children for them or are they reviewing the medical information prior to locking a child? AND, is there any rumors before a new batch of sn children are posted or is it always a surprise?
March 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
When we bought our ds home, we submitted our dossier in January 2006 and were LID that month. However, we had already sent in our LOI, and received PA. We saw our son before we even decided on China. We received TA 2 weeks after LID, and we travelled in April. I know that things have changed dramatically since then. However, although 2 weeks wasn’t unusual, there were others with the same agency who were not so lucky, and some had
be waiting for the TA for over 100 days. I can remember that being a consistent topic on the yahoo group. I was not expecting to receive our TA that quickly, but we did.
March 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I think it is still very difficult to predict. My LID is 4/27/07; my MCC date is 10/22/07, and I am still waiting (17 months and counting for what was expected to be a 10-12 month wait “on average.”
Why so long? Well, although my age range is fairly wide (12 to 60 months), my list of medical needs is fairly narrow (minor or major heart condition, plus a number of secondary medical conditions.) Plus, I have requsted a girl. Boys are being placed much more quickly.
Also, different agencies are handling matters differently. I am with an agency that is still receiving a dedicated list; they used the shared list for a brief time but they don’t use it any longer. I think this is resulting in a slower process, but the plus side is that families don’t have to “compete” for children and make their decisions in a mad scramble — we get more time to think about the referral.
As far as the time between referral and travel, we are told it is 4-5 months but it actually seems to be more like 2-3 months for many people who are adopting through my agency.
Files have been trickling into the agency VERY slowly since Chinese New Year, but there are signs they are now speeding up. A teeny bit. It is still sloooooow, but I will be shocked if I don’t get a referral this year.
It would be nice, RQ, to see a little bit more on the “main board’ about the special needs process, but I don’t have any brilliant suggestions on what you could be doing differently.
March 13th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
When we were waiting for our SN paperwork to be processed, I obsessively checked the lists in the forum to give myself an idea of the possible date ranges we might wait for different “As”.
Every day my husband would ask, “what are the dates saying today?” trying to give us an idea of when we might possibly travel. When getting time off of work is necessary, it’s important to know so you can plan as far ahead as possible.
As it turns out, all of my obsessive checking was helpful to us, and we ended up traveling just about when I thought we might, based on others’ dates.
But there is one thing to keep in mind. If you’re LOI before being LID, the dates are much different than if you’re already LID when you send in your LOI, and the dates for those who are already through review are even different than the 2nd group. Hope this makes sense. IMHO, there should then be three threads in the forum for dates:
1. LID (through review) before LOI
2. LID (not through review) before LOI
3. LOI before LID
Not sure if you could incorporate this info on the main blog, RQ, other than to remind blog only readers occasionally that this great resource is available in the forum.
TB
March 13th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Even though exact predictions are impossible, it’s still useful to see the statistics and general trends for the wait time between referral and travel.
As someone who’s still waiting for an SN referral (we’re not LID yet, and I think most of the children matching our preferences require that), tracking when the new batches of SN children are added to the shared agency list would also be useful. And if you’re feeling really ambitious, a poll of those with recent SN referrals that includes age, gender, some sort of categorization of type/severity of need, and wait time to get the referral could be helpful too.
March 13th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I’d be curious to know how accurate the SN referral medical reports turn out to be. Of course that would be difficult to measure seeing as it’s not a yes/no type of answer, but “mostly accurate” or “better than reported” or “worse than reported” would be interesting.
March 13th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Hi RQ,
Thanks for asking!
To be honest I think the charts that those of us in the process have started are as accurate as anything for us to work off of during our waits. As it you mentioned the SN process comes in many forms and is changing constantly, so I think it would be difficult for you to offer much more than the much needed forum area since it’s not a process you are actively plugged into. It’s rather like shifting sands some days. :-)
However, I do have a few suggestions:
1. Perhaps a permanent spot could be created in the Forum for people to be able to announce their referrals (when the proper moment occurs). Although, you now have a spot after the NSN “Babies” (which is appreciated), sometimes that spot does not occur for weeks after we are able to annouce our referrals and waiting to share our happy news is darn near painful when we want to shout it from the rooftops. And as a mom who is already home with my two SN kiddos I’d love to be able to go directly to a list to see new referrals rather than try and filter through all the threads on the SN Forum.
2. I was wondering if we could add a Forum area. As a mom home with SN kids I struggle sometimes where to discuss current medical procedures and other SN related things. The current SN Discussions Forum is buzzing with mostly waiting parents tracking their LOI to PA to LOA to TA to CA information. And let me tell you it is truly a lifeline for those waiting. I dont’ know how I would have gotten through our waits without this area of the Forum. It’s wonderful and soooo valuable!!!! But it is a big enough discussion area to warrant it’s own space.
The Home with Baby area is also so helpful with threads discussing school issues, daycare, attachment, general parenting, racial issues and the million of other day to day issues of adoptive parents. But I don’t feel it is the perfect spot to discuss some of medical and emotional issues of parenting a SN child. I also have to say that the SN friends that I made during our wait in the SN Discussions area also seem a little a drift as where to discuss our lives raising SN kids. It would also be a good spot for those thinking of SN to be able to ask BTDT SN parents questions. Not to say we won’t join in at the Home with Baby area because those things are all important to us too.
Thanks again for asking and thanks for making the path to my children and our time home with them more informed and rich.
Bloomer
March 13th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
The chart keepers do a great job, but I just wish that
someone we could merge the charts. I have noticed that there will be people on one chart who aren’t on the other even though it would be applicable.
ex on LID before LOI chart, but not on waiting for LOA
I know this is not due to the chart keepers, but those that are volunteering their info not having requested it to be logged into both, but I find myself flipping back and forth sometimes.
All in all, this site has been invaluable!! I love you all for the support you give!!!!
-jelloanyone?
March 13th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Tresordasie, I cannot speak for others, but my daughter came home in very late November, 2006. She was on an April, 2006 agency list and described as having an unreparied Cleft palate/lip III; for several of the “tests,” like hearing, the form said “not cooperating.” I was chosen by the agency in mid May and sent in the first paperwork in mid June. I asked my agency, at the my doctor’s request, to request that her lip not be repaired. It was not until I was in Hunan to pick her up that I learned her lip had, in fact, been repaired in early July. I had requested updated medical information but never received it. She also had an undisclosed heart murmur which her pediatrician found immediately but which a pediatric cardiologist later described as innocent.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
I’m new to this. Canyou tell me what LOI, TA, LOA, PA stand for?
Thanks
March 14th, 2009 at 12:05 am
LOI – Letter of Intent (Sent by you when you accept the referral of a specific SN child and it is your intent to adopt them)
PA – Pre Approval (CCAA does not always issue this, but it is CCAA’s preliminary approval of the match.)
LOA – Letter of Acceptance (This is issued when CCAA gives you formal final approval to adopt your child)
TA – Travel Approval (Issued to give you authorization to travel to China to bring your child home, this occurs in both SN & NSN paths)
CA – Consulate Appointment (The date when you have your final meeting in China with your government’s consulate to receive your child’s visa to go home with you)
March 14th, 2009 at 12:11 am
It would be great to track the frequency of when the shared list is released.
Any chance of compiling data about ages, gender, medical conditions on each released list?(doubtful, but thought I’d ask).
March 14th, 2009 at 7:46 am
Thanks RQ for giving this subject attention here! Bloomer makes some great suggestions. People have already explained things very well, I would just sort of reiterate, that once a referral is received there seems to be a fairly predictable pattern for time frames within the above mentioned categories or circumstances. It seems that it’s the time it takes to receive a referral that can really vary the most, especially if a family’s choice of special needs they can accept is narrow.
And yes, the chart keepers are incredible!!! If it weren’t for them, we’d never have known to inquire about our TA, which is now going on about 22 days overdue. It turned out we had a paperwork glitch, which we were able to address, and now hope to see our TA next week. Who knows how long we’d be waiting if I hadn’t had the charts to see my LOA date getting passed over.
Thanks again to RQ and to the community in general. I have met so many great people here, and received such support, advice, and valuable information.
Oh sorry, one more comment. Special needs is really a great option for some families, but there are many issues to be aware of and think about. If this thread sparks interest for anyone who is thinking of switching to SNs, I highly recommend you visit the forum and educate yourself on the issues and talk with folks who are already home with their child. I also really recommend people join yahoo groups. There are groups for special needs in general, and for specific needs. The groups were invaluable to me during the period I was deciding about accepting our referral.
OK, done. And as we say in SN land, Let’s see some As next week!!!!!!!!
March 14th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Interestedlurker, thank you for your post. Any information will help me decide which path to take. Thank you.
I’ve read that Chinese doctors do a very good job on repaired lips. And many cleft affected kids also get their lip repaired by international volunteer doctors who travel to China during their free time to help as many kids as possible. I recently met such a doctor, and was moved by her generosity.
March 14th, 2009 at 10:22 am
The only thing I think might be useful on the main blog at this time is a post about the new DS230 process. The SN families seem pretty aware of how this works, but I am betting that there are many NSN families who let there paperwork expire who are now Hague families. They probably have no idea that they are going to have to wait longer for TA due to this new process.
March 14th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Bloomer – do you want me to make a sub room under the SN room for “New Referrals”? The only problem with that, that I see, is that for some agencies the parent picks the child and then waits for PA, so there isn’t really a “referral”. For other agencies, the waiting parents list what they are comfortable with and the agency then “refers” them a baby based on that. So, since some people see it as a referral and others don’t, maybe the wording needs to be different? I think that for many agencies parents aren’t allowed to share information until they have PA, so in that case they can’t announce at “referral” anyway. Maybe ya’ll should open a thread and talk about it to come up with what it should be called. Let me know what ya’ll decide and I can create it.
As for a place to talk once you are home – I guess I had assumed the “Home with baby (and big kids too)” room would be enough for everyone. I’m still not sure I understand the need for two rooms to discuss things once you are home. Many who do not adopt through the SN process also have to deal with doctors and therapists, even if their child may not have been classified as having special needs.
——-
There are a lot of new SN abbreviations – can someone get me a list of the ones I didn’t cover in the FAQ so I can add them, please? The ones asked here were covered, but there are more out there now that weren’t being used when I made the FAQ.
——-
frteach – I actually did cover that a few weeks ago, though I didn’t give the name of the form that has to be used.
March 15th, 2009 at 1:25 am
Where I live we have to be DTC and LID prior to referral so it would be nice to see some of the following:
Date LID, Referral Date, Travel date, Gender, Age Requested. Then some mathematical calculations for Wait to Referral and Wait to Travel. I think that the last list specified whether a family had to be LID before the child was locked, so I think we will see more of this type of timeline. Hmm… Not sure if this makes sense… It’s late :-)
March 15th, 2009 at 2:46 am
RQ,
I have started a thread about the name of the referral area for SN’s… we’ll see what ideas we come up with. Stay tuned.
You’re right about the Home with Baby room, it should be enough for everyone. It’s probably just me that struggles with the sheer breadth of what it can and does cover. I think I’m missing the connection with other SN familiess from our days of waiting. I don’t cross paths with them much in the Home with Baby room. They are all probably “home with their babies” and not posting much. :-)
I’ll also start a thread about the abbreviations so we can get that up to date for FAQ.
All the best,
Bloomer
March 15th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Thanks a lot for asking RQ!
What I would really really want is a “when”-post for the release of new files on the shared list. It seems to me it is becoming quite regular, but I’m not sure. In any case that’s really like the NSN referral time of the month and everyone is on the top of their toes waiting for it when it is getting close. I would also love it if you would regularly ask about how many agencies get individual lists and what kind of sn’s are on those lists and also how often they seem to arrive. I would also like to have an idea about how many are awaiting an sn referral (shared list and agency lists, not LID as expedited referral sn) and about how many referrals there are every month, but that might just be impossible to do. In any case, THANKS!
March 15th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Mamman – would it be possible to look back through the forum to figure out when the last six or eight shared list releases happened? I can certainly do a when post off of that, and then work to keep up with it in the future.
March 15th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Yes, I think it would. Someone wrote about it some time ago, I think she had at least four months, maybe six or more. I’ll search for it tomorrow, it’s too late now. Thanks!
March 16th, 2009 at 10:36 am
RQ & Mamman,
I am the one who was tracking time between shared lists.
These are the dates I have so far:
7/9/08
8/13/08
9/16/08
10/23/08
11/20/08
1/4/09
1/22/09
2/25/09
I can search later tonight for the lists prior to July 08 on my agency’s board, or maybe someone else has that info.
Please note the dates may be off by a day compared to some others’ notes as it depends what time it is when the list is posted and how you count that date (US time or China time).
Hope this helps.
March 16th, 2009 at 10:42 am
espirer – are your dates based on US time or China time?
For consistency’s sake I prefer to count it as eastern time when families anywhere in the world are first presented with information from the list.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:21 am
RQ,
The dates were based on when the list was posted to our agency’s yahoo group at US Eastern Time & Date. I really need to go back and look more carefully and to get the pre-July stats if I can find them (I think our yahoo group only started in July though). I didn’t have time yesterday but will try to do it later tonight when I get home from work.
The one thing is that when they post to our yahoo group may not be exactly when the list is issued. It’s usually within 12 hours but our agency rep’s first priority is contacting families for whom she sees a potential match. She does that first, then posts the list of files that she hasn’t locked. So that’s why it may be a half-day off or there may be discrepancies with another agency’s posting of the list. I don’t know if anyone else has an “in” at an agency who can tell them the exact dates of when the list comes out? It might be worth posting in the SN forum to ask.
Based on what I have learned, my agency is usually one of the first to issue a list on its yahoo group so these dates may be the closest we can get to seeing a pattern. We may have to qualify the stats with a “plus or minus 12 hours” caveat, though.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Espirer,
As long as they are are consistent, that is, they show when the first time anyone was aware that a list was out, and that they are all based on the same basic time zone (in this case America and Canada as opposed to Europe or Asia), then that is enough.
It sounds like your agency gets the information out almost immediately, so I’m guessing this is as close to a “first knowledge” as anyone is going to get.