A Diversion
With no real information coming in it doesn’t seem productive to just post that nothing seems to have changed since yesterday.
Let’s talk about distant family members and the things they say, shall we?
My mother’s brother has the ability to be a first class jerk. He is constantly putting others down, and I really can’t figure out why he does it. Can he really feel so bad about himself that he must constantly put everyone else down? I don’t know, but I kind of think so. Another problem is that every time I’ve come up against him, my mother has taken his side. Her brother is right, her daughter is wrong. Always. I hold no illusions that she will take her granddaughter’s side and tell her brother he is out of line, it’s just not going to happen.
Luckily, he lives about a 12 hour drive from us, so we don’t see him very often. In fact, the last time we saw him, GG was young enough that I wasn’t worried about her understanding what he said. (I’ve arranged it so that we were out of town the last two times he came to town. My mom tricked me into being in town this time. Family politics at their best. Oh, and guilt trips, “He’s 70, this may be the last time we see him, how can you think of keeping his grand-nieces from him, he’s never even seen TwinkleToes, just her pictures.”) But, back to the story, he said some pretty bad things on that visit. One of which was to say that if my mom had been adopted then she wouldn’t really be his sister. And he looked right at me when he said it. After ignoring a lot of other thing’s he’d said, that was pretty much the last straw and I let him know how I felt about it.
My mother got very angry at me for being upset with him for saying this. All of the other siblings did as well. And then my cousin’s jumped in, so it was me against everyone in the family. They told me I was too sensitive about it, he was talking about his own relationships and didn’t mention GG, what he said had nothing to do with her. I had a chip on my shoulder and that was my problem, not his.
Right. I didn’t buy it, I stood my ground, and he at some point apologized and admitted he had just been trying to get a rise out of me because nothing he had said so far had fazed me.
And that is true. He had said a lot of bad things about me, which I had completely ignored. I do not think enough of him for anything he says to hurt me, so I didn’t react to anything he said. So he kept raising the stakes until something made me react. He just hadn’t planned on my saying that he would never see me or my daughter again. Ever. And as I walked out the door with her on my hip I pointed out that by his logic she wasn’t “really” his great niece, so what was the problem? As I was walking across the yard to get to the car he finally realized he’d pushed too far, and he started apologizing. He admitted he couldn’t get a rise out of me any other way, and that perhaps he had gone too far.
He will be here in a few weeks, and this time I’m concerned he will say something to GG. Or, if not something to her, then something said to someone else about being Asian or Chinese or adopted that is meant to hurt her. I think he might be hesitant to push that particular button again, but with him you just never know. And he is so good at sliding it in sideways so it isn’t a direct hit, but it still strikes deep. I debated whether preparing for a confrontation might bring one on that otherwise might not have happened, but in the end I just don’t trust him to let sleeping dogs lie. He is too competitive, he will need to test me, see if he can manage a grave insult that I have to live with. It’s like a chess game to him.
GG and I have had conversations in the past that words can not hurt you without your consent. We’ve talked about who you give that consent to – people you love, and people you are close enough to that you trust them not hurt you with their words on purpose. No one else gets the right to be able to hurt you deeply with their words. Other people’s words can be abrasive, can hurt the skin, but they can’t claw deeply into our heart unless we allow them. We’ve also talked about how sometimes something a stranger says can hurt deeply, and that it’s important to not let them know it hurt, and then later try to figure out why it did. We’ve talked about strangers accidentally finding our soft spots, and how we can protect those soft spots once we realize they are there.
So, with that as a background I’ve told her that Uncle Mike is not someone we trust to let close enough that his words can hurt. I told her that he tries to hurt people with his words, it’s just what he does. And we talked about ways to deal with him. I’ve given her examples of things he has said to cousins, so she has an idea of how cruel he can be. A few of the cousins deal with him by volleying put downs back and forth. One deals with him by bursting into tears every time he says something, which leads to this whole huge drama thing that probably annoys me worse than the put downs. But, I didn’t tell her that last bit, I won’t encourage her to cry as a tool for handling conflict, but she’s still a kid so I’m not ready to take that option away from her, either.
I deal with Uncle Mike by ignoring him and by spending as little amount of time in his presence as is possible. If you try to tell him he isn’t being nice he says “oh, I was only joking, stop being so serious, you’re too sensitive”. He can make it so that his “victim” is the one at fault and he is the injured party, he is very good at that. But I’m not sure ignoring him is all that healthy for GG, not unless it is her choice, an educated choice made after he’s said something and not before.
So GG and I have talked about some of the things he might say. I’m using this as an educational opportunity, and pointing out to her that she’s going to have to figure out how to deal with this stuff eventually, so we’ll just consider Uncle Mike to be good practice.
I’ve been throwing things out and letting her respond. And I’ve come to the understanding that she isn’t going to be very good at handling this sort of thing. She’s great at handling other kids, and at handling truly curious adults, but not so good at the thought of handling an adult family member who means to say painful things. I’ve told her that adults have to earn your respect, and I’ve given her permission to say some slightly disrespectful things to him (“Wow, it must make you feel really big and strong to be able to put down a ___ year old girl.”) But I’m not sure she’s going to be up to that sort of thing. And I don’t really want her to, I mean, it’s not so important to me how she deals with him, just that she does so in the way that she chooses so that she feels good about her own reaction. I’m just giving her options so she can choose what works best for her. He is a 70 year old bully, and he is very good at it. I don’t want to pit her against him, he has more experience and he’ll win. I’ll take him out, I’ve had a lot of practice at handling him, I just want her to feel good about her own reactions, should she wish to react.
In the Hannah Montana Best of Both Worlds concert video
Not everything we’re talking about involves fighting fire with fire, though. I’ve pulled out the Wise Up Powerbook again, and we’ve looked through it and talked about the scenarios given in the book.
If you aren’t familiar with this book, I can’t recommend it enough. It’s a wonderful tool for helping your child learn to handle questions about being adopted.
The W.I.S.E. part of it is a decision about how to respond to a question:
W = WALK AWAY, or ignore what you hear.
I = IT’S PRIVATE, I do not have to share information with anyone, and I can say that appropriately, even to adults.
S = SHARE SOMETHING about my adoption story, but I can think carefully about what I want to let others know.
E = EDUCATE OTHERS about adoption in general.
Part of the decision making process talked about in the book involves thinking about how the child feels about the person asking the question, and what they think the motivation for the question is. Is the question coming from a friend, from a bully, from a teacher, from a stranger? Is the person just curious or are they trying to tease?
Uncle Mike’s upcoming visit has given us a reason to explore this book again. So, thank you Uncle Mike, for being enough of a jerk that my daughter and I get to delve into a conversation we haven’t had in a while, and for which I’m seeing she needed a refresher in, anyway.
The real problem with Uncle Mike is that he doesn’t ask questions. He slides insults around so that you know he meant them at you, but if you speak to it then he makes you look bad for being insulted. I’ve told GG that with most people if she feels insulted without it being a direct insult it is possible she’s being sensitive and she should see that as a possibility before reacting. But with Uncle Mike, if you feel insulted then it is likely he meant to insult you, and you have to decide whether it is best to ignore it or address it.
I considered just refusing to see him. But he’s going to be at my mom’s house for a week and I will have more of a fight on my hands if I refuse. I would have had to explain to GG why I was refusing, and that isn’t exactly what I want to teach her, either. So I’m making the most of the situation, and giving my daughter the tools she needs in case Uncle Mike doesn’t behave himself.
TT is a little spitfire. I doubt she will understand his subtlety, but should he say something that hurts her feelings I have no doubt that she will tell him (in her own way) exactly what she thinks about whatever it is he says. And she is impossible to argue with, so I don’t worry he will twist her words back on her. I will of course keep a close eye on her, but she doesn’t really have the verbal skills yet for me to worry about Uncle Mike hurting her emotionally with his words.
But I am aware that he could hurt GG in a way that could affect her for a really long time, and my goal is to keep that from happening. She has to learn to deal with this sort of thing eventually, and I’m never going to think she’s ready for it. Now is probably as good of a time as any.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Dearest Rumor Queen,
I totally support your decision to visit Uncle Grumpy pants, but I wanted to share with you that your story resonates with me more as having been a girl naval aviator; having to fight for every inch of respect or disrepect that others wanted to impose upon me, that my thinking on this is a bit different than yours.
I just would not expose her to him. If you think that there is a possibility or a probability that he could her GG with his words (either meaning too or not) than just bring TT. Arrange for a playdate for GG. I understand that you have practiced with here all these nasty things that he may say to her and that is still good practice. But I would just call a spade a spade (Uncle Grumpy pants a mean old man) and tell your family (entire) that you have better things to do than to submit your daughter to his personality.
Very Sincerely,
and really hope your change your mind and don’t take her,
Pick-a-Lilly
Ex Naval Aviator
Ex Peace Officer
Full Time Mom of two gorgeous Chinese Daughters
May 14th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I have played around with that option, to just not go to mom’s that week, every way I could, and it just isn’t an option. The whole “make-up” thing after I threatened he would never see us again is part of the reason. By going out of town when he came into town the last two times, it’s like I’m following through on the threat from that day, and since he apologized then according to the rest of the family I’m in the wrong for doing it. He’s promised he’ll behave, I should believe him. I’m the one being unreasonable, etc.
My mom is simply not going to allow us to not see him while he is here this time. If we don’t go to her house then there is not a doubt in my mind that she will bring him and about a dozen other family members to our house and there will be a huge fight in the front yard over it.
If we could have been out of town for this visit then I’d have done it, but my mom manipulated things so that we are in town and there really isn’t a way to plan a last minute trip out of town. I was told it was going to be a family gathering, plans were made, then suddenly “oh, it looks like Uncle Mike can come this year, isn’t that great!”
Bottom line is that if I refuse to see him then the resulting fight could cause as much emotional trauma to GG as anything Uncle Mike may end up saying. Different emotions, but still a lot of trauma. My mom has me backed into a corner on this one, and I think the least damaging option is to prepare GG for Uncle Mike, and to make sure she understands that Grams will take Uncle Mike’s side no matter what, kind of like GG always takes TT’s side to protect her from other people.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Hugs to you and GG. I hate bullies.
Makes me wish we could all come to the family gathering and stand beside you. I’d be happy to argue with the rest of your family. Shame on them for letting him off the hook with an apology. Words are sometimes empty. And this is one of those times.
BTW, does Uncle Bully read your blog? perhaps your post here will hit a cord with him.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
RQ, I call those kind of remarks that your uncle makes “zingers.” They are said with a smile but it is intended to be a jab. My husband and I were just talking about people jabbing at other people two days ago. It is such an instant gratification type thing. It makes those people get their bitterness and ugliness out but they pretend that it is all innocent and in good fun. That is a load of you know what. Get your unhappiness out in other ways. People who make these zingers are usually very unhappy and can’t find a healthy way to get their anger and bitterness out. I would flat out tell your uncle to find someone else to verbally spar with. Tell him you don’t have time for it and neither do your children. He may think he is being witty, but he is actually not funny and makes your children uncomfortable. How can someone argue when they are told they make children uncomfortable? Tell hiim to get a grip and to get a life while he is at it!!
May 14th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Tough, tough call, but I think it is the right decision. Not walking away from your less desirable relatives is a way of reminding your kids that no one is perfect, and that there are things we do in life even if we’d rather be elsewhere. I think you’re modeling how to DEAL with it rather than NOT DEAL with it, and that is important. Plus, your relationship with your mom is valuable, even if her brother drives you insane.
As a single mother by choice, I have run into lots of unpleasant comments over the years from relatives and family friends saying snide things about how my 9 y.o. daughter is “this way” or “that way” because she doesn’t have a dad. (I used a donor to conceive her.) People constantly make assumptions about things they don’t understand. Sometimes it is out of a genuine desire to start the conversation, but sometimes they are just ignorant or trying to get your goat or actively looking down on you. It’s not your job to fix them, just to determine how you will deal with them.
When I complete my adoption of a 4 y.o. from China, I will have a whole new type of “commentary” to navigate, and it is helpful to me to see how you have done it.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to be Uncle Mike getting into a front-yard smackdown with RQ, because I have a feeling you could cut him to ribbons (metaphorically) with your terse logic and steadfast principles. Thanks for sharing this episode.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
feelingthejoy – No one in my family knows I’m RQ… so, no.
I did let me mom read some things written by adult adoptees, hoping she could understand why it is so important GG not hear things from Uncle Mike that might make her feel as if she doesn’t “really” belong, but my mom is too busy defending her brother to ever admit he might do something wrong. But she did learn a lot, and as long as Uncle Mike isn’t around she does seem to understand.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Rumor Queen.
Is it possible just to have GG somewhere else? Then no one can really complain because most of your family (You, RK and TT) would still be in attendance.
I know you have racked your brain on this one and I won’t push again. Best of Luck!
Pick-A-Lilly
May 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Dear RQ,
If I were in your shoes, I’d just not see the man. He came out and admitted he was trying to get a rise out of you. He chooses to pick on people as a past-time. Why put yourself and your children in a place to be picked on? My uncle always said you can pick your friends but not your relatives. He’s right. But, you can choose not to be a part of your uncle’s amusement. People like him make me sick – getting their jollies off of hurting other people. I would walk away from it. I wouldn’t be a party to it. Life is too short to spend time with people who choose to hurt others.
It’s great that you were able to find something positive in it, like educating your children on how to deal with hurtful things that people say. But, I still think it’s wrong to knowingly walk into situations where hurtful things will be said. What would you do if you had a friend who treated you like that? I can tell you that I wouldn’t call that person a friend for very long.
Best of luck during that week.
Jackie
LID for our second child 3/23/2006
May 14th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Dear RQ,
If it were me, I’d go without your girls and if anything is said, then I would simply say you wanted to see how things would go this time without exposing your girls to it. Sort of a testing of the waters. Relationships are earned by trust and it doesn’t sound like he can be trusted with his mouth.
Family is difficult to deal with and the level of expectations are much higher and I realize we can’t shelter our kids from everything rude that may come their way, but sometimes those zingers are just more than I care to deal with and the drama is to much for the little minds.
Goodluck, if you do go, he might surprise you and be on his best behavior since you did have it out with him.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Wow – quite a conundrum. I think you’ve prepared incredibly well and I wish you the best with your visit.
Please post back after the visit to share how it went. This is a great learning tool and I’m interested to know how it unfolds in terms of GG’s reactions and feelings.
And…thanks for the diversion.
LID 3/15/06
May 14th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
RQ: All I can say is Good Luck Uncle Mike, your daughter will figure it out kids generally do and it is great parenting on your part because you are preparing her so she can be in control and not Uncle Mike or you that is on copntrol. This will help her to learn healthy coping mechanisms in a semi controlled atmosphere. If you would like I could come over and help out at your family gathering I could be the long lost cousin and be a watch-out for you or be annoying to Uncle Mike and see how he likes it?
pw
May 14th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
RQ: All I can say is Good Luck Uncle Mike, your daughter will figure it out kids generally do and it is great parenting on your part because you are preparing her so she can be in control and not Uncle Mike or you that is on control. This will help her to learn healthy coping mechanisms in a semi controlled atmosphere. If you would like I could come over and help out at your family gathering I could be the long lost cousin and be a watch-out for you or be annoying to Uncle Mike and see how he likes it?
pw
May 14th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
I’m an old fashioned guy when it comes to these kind of things…
…isn’t this the time for Rumor King to step in, and take Uncle Grumpy Pants to the side and read him the riot act?
I understand not wanting to cause tensions between the 2 sides of the family, but a man-to-man talk can go a long way… especially when it involves someones wife and children.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I think that him saying something slightly out of line is probably 60/40 (more chance that he will than won’t). But, I think the chance of him saying something really bad is only about 90/10, with it being only a 10% chance he will. He will try to test me, but he’ll play it very safe and test the waters first. I think I can head off the really hurtful stuff at that point, give him some incentive to not go further.
But, if we refuse to go then there is a 100% chance of a huge family drama.
I’m kind of playing the odds here, but at this point, there is really no way to keep both girls from going and to just avoid the whole thing.
He is going to be at my mom’s for 8 days. Five of those days are planned for family activities – fun stuff the girls will be mad about if they have to miss. I’ve weaseled out of all but two (you know, prior commitments), so we are only going to see him two days. Oh, and a dinner on a third day, but there will be over 20 people so it won’t be a problem to just sit far away from him.
Trust me, there will be conflict no matter whether we go or not. GG will hear from her cousins how much fun they had, and will be told we didn’t go because I have a problem with Uncle Mike, that I’m being unreasonable, etc.
In the way of family politics, it’s an excellent manipulation. I’ve avoided him for a really, really, long time… and the family banded together and came up with a plan to corner me so we’d have to participate this time. They all know I don’t deal well with being cornered, but they did it anyway. I think there is a good chance they are trying to prove to me he can behave, which is why I think there is a 40% chance that he’ll actually behave.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
RQ, then your whole family has a responsibility to make sure he behaves. I hope they recognize this.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
p12 – RK and I have kind of formed this policy where I handle my side of the family and he handles his side of the family.
Shortly after we were married he didn’t handle his side of the family very well, so I did. He didn’t like it and I told him either he handled them or he didn’t complain about the way that I did. He acknowledged that and started handling them, and so we’ve kind of come up with something that works.
Should he decide I’m not handling it, he will. But it really is better if I’m responsible for making my family behave and he’s responsible for making his family behave. His family causes a whole lot more problems than mine does, and it’s kind of my turn here.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
RQ – I have never posted on the blog before, but this made me very angry… people like your uncle are poison and I would keep my kids from him and tell your family why… there is someone is my DH’s family who is like this and I would always come home from family get-togethers so angry, resentful, depressed etc… he is not worth it and certainly not worth hurting your 2 DDs whether they understand his digs or not.
The burden is on HIM to try to repair the relationship and life is just too short for people like him… and “subtle” digs are the most insidious and damaging… shame on your family for forcing this jerk on you… again… he needs to prove that he is “fit” for polite company.
Good luck with your decision…
lotsofhope
May 14th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
It sounds like you have laid some great groundwork for dealing with Uncle Mike. I do hate (especially for GG) that it’s necessary but it may likely be a useful tool for her from now on.
If you do change your mind and decide on a road trip, I can give you directions to my house. :)
May 14th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
STAY AWAY! I totally agree with lotsofhope. He is still controlling you – look at how much energy you are putting into this upcoming visit – you are wasting your energy on him and giving him way too much power over you. He is a 70 year old bully! I’ve taught my girls to stay away from bullies. There is actually a ‘bully mom’ in my neighborhood – we steer clear. It is sad that young bullies grow up to be big old bullies. Go find something fun to do!!
May 14th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
If your child is a vicitm of bullying try this site. http://www.Bullies2Buddies.com. You can download for free Izzy Kalman’s workbook on “How to stop being bulllied without really trying.” Just go to the site, look to the leff of the screen and under resources click on Free Manuals. I am a school counselor and have been using this program for years and find it to be very helpful.
I am also a tender hearted person and words do hurt. I have to remind myself to use Izzy’s methods. It amazes me how quickly the bully turns around.
Question for the Rumor Queen….does the RK know you are the RQ?
May 14th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Sadly, you almost have to fight fire with fire. Avoiding the gatherings is not an option for the reason you stated and it’s also not an option because then he knows “won”. He would enjoy that just as much as a jab. Likewise if you don’t bring the kids. You all have to go and make it look like he doesn’t bother you in the least. Hopefully there are enough people that you can really avoid one-on-one contact. But if it were me, I’d find a really sly way to dig him like, “Uncle Mike! Life is too short to say hurtful things to people! Someone of your age ought to understand that!” And of course, have a grin on your face and twinkle in your eye insinuating he’s pathetic for behaving that way.
His behavior clearly shows he feels inferior to others and downright jealous. I’ll bet he’s jealous of your family. You don’t indicate, but it almost makes me think he has no family and is bitter about that and is taking it out on those with families.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
If this is something that you absolutely cannot avoid, stay right beside GG–do NOT leave her side. I’d “visit” for a few minutes and then leave. You’ve then met your family obligations.
Unfortunately, I have had to do this type thing for years (stay a bit and then leave). I have the same type relative. His cutting remarks have scarrred me to this day (I’m in my 40′s). There are things that were said (in fun, of course) that still make me sick inside. I can’t change my family, but I can protect my daughter. She will not grow up to carry an emotional burden just because of some ignorant family member.
Bless you with whatever decision you make.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
burdie – Yeah, RK knows. He used to pop in every once in a while, and has even played the part of moderator on the blog a few times when I had to be away from the internet for an extended period of time.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
UGH! What a crappy situation to be in. Thank you so much for recommending the WISE book I’m going to get a copy right away. Thankfully Lily is only 20 months so I don’t think she understands a lot of what strangers say but I need to prepare myself so that I can prepare her. The walk away method has served me well so far e.g. at a formal luncheon honoring my Mom a complete stranger walked up and asked if Lily spoke English. Uh, hello would you ask any Asian that question? Maybe my husband is Chinese, how the heck would he know. I thought what a ridiculous question to ask since he had no way of knowing she was actually from another country. Boo hiss on ignorance.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I would probably make the same decision with the understanding that one snide remark meant to intentionally hurt my family would be the end of the visit and no future visits.
I also think you can’t underestimate the power of having a small child stand up to a bully in a very straight forward manner. It would be hard for him to argue with GG if she stood in front of him and announced in a matter of fact way “You are being very mean to me.”
Also, make sure she understands that she can leave at any time if she feels uncomfortable. It is really too bad you have to deal with him at all.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
littlejoe – two days full of activities… bowling, picnics, swimming, bike riding on a bike trail (old rail road that’s been paved over), etc.
This is not something we can just show up for and leave early. The days have even been planned around naps for the little ones. And I helped plan the days… before I knew Uncle Mike would be coming, of course.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
sammarshall – yep, any hurtful remarks and we are out of there. I have made it clear there are some things you can say that it is impossible to apologize for. I’ve made it clear that my mother should make it clear to her brother that I will take him at his word, so if he doesn’t mean something he should not say it. She got mad at me, of course, says I’m just looking for something to fight about. I just rolled my eyes at her and told her I wouldn’t start anything and it wasn’t me she had to worry about.
And GG does know that we can leave if something is said that makes her uncomfortable. She just has to say the word and we are out of there.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Kids are mostly oblivious to what is going on around them unless it invokes someone they are are close to – same for us Guys – we are oblivious. Your reaction is what they see and respond to, not the talking head jerk sitting on the sofa.
I would just keep the kids away from the old guy – sounds like there will be enough cousins to block for them.
Of couse if TT was to spill a cup of milk in his lap he would steer clear for the rest of the day as well.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
LOL – my children are not oblivious to much of anything.
GG is so sensitive. She can walk into a room full of people and know who is happy and who is sad and usually have a decent handle on why within a short amount of time.
And TT is just a spitfire who is into everyone’s business. Annoying as all get out, and I’m working on it, but she really puts to use the verbal skills she has managed to acquire. Having her around is like having a TV commentator around who tells you everything that is happening as it happens.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I guess for me it is a no-brainer, really. I would not take my child somewhere that I knew there was more chance than not that she would be subjected to cruel remarks. I honestly could not care less if it caused a huge rift in my family (and we’re all close and live in a very small town). But, they’re just family…this is my child. I owe her a duty to prevent what harms I can and when I know in advance…well, no. Just no. I’d plan my own fun activities and we’d do those without Uncle Grumpy.
When I was a child, my great-uncle was a mean bigot who did not like children (me or his own, to whom he was physically abusive as well, it turned out). But, he and my great-aunt lived close to Disney World so when I was young and my family had no money, we’d stay there so I could go to Disney. When my mom found out about his mean remarks, that was the end of that. We never went to that house again. We still visited my great-aunt, but not if he was in the house. Honestly, I did not see him again until I was in my late 20′s and he was in a nursing home, despite many visits with my great-aunt. Do I remember the family conflict this must have caused? Nope. I remember my mother put my emotional safety above any possible family issues that may have resulted. Period. You can’t protect your kids from everything. But why would you knowingly throw your children in the path of cruelty?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Its when I read things like this that I am increasingly thankful for my little, tiny family.
It will be interesting to see if Uncle A**hole pulls out any of his tricks. Seriously, by the time someone’s 70 you’d think they’d be past bullying but some never learn. I have to say though, if it were me, I think I’d be more disappointed in mom for taking his side over yours and the grandkids. He’s a jerk, I get that. Mom’s reaction I don’t get that at all.
The rest of the gathering sounds like fun though!
May 14th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
I agree with RQ that hiding from the uncle is not the best answer, not only for the sake of family diplomacy but also for the sake of her daughters. Bullies are wrong, and bad, and evil… but they’re also a fact of life. It is much more beneficial to GG in the long run to prepare her for the inevitable (meeting bullies face-to-face) rather than teaching her to hide from them. RQ is arming her daughter with a wealth of tools that she can utilize, not only with her uncle but with any bully who comes her way in the future.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Oh boy, I feel for you RQ. To me, the uncle is a bothersome lowlife jerk, the real issue is your Mom. My nephew molested my 8 yr old, now 33yrs. My Mom pulled the same defensive stuff in regards to him as your Mom is pulling. I haven’t seen my Mother in 15 yrs and most likely never will. Your Mom should be standing up for you! I am sorry you are having to deal with this. If she walked over to her brother and sad “Mike! don’t you EVER hurt my daughter or her family again!” he would leave you alone! Very sad.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I have run from him twice. Two times I’ve taken my family out of town when he came to town. He’s never seen TT, and hasn’t seen GG since she was about 16 or 17 months old.
GG and my mother are very close. And GG and my dad are, well, closer than close. He is her most favorite person in the world, I think. GG is going to be terribly hurt if she can’t see him very often because of the fight that will happen if we pull completely out of this gathering. And trust me, my mother will make it a very bad fight if we do. I’m not really worried about my relationship with my mom, it’s GG’s relationship with her Gramps that I’m worried about. And my dad does what my mom tells him to do, so appealing to him does no good.
GG is going to have to learn how to deal with hurtful people eventually. I can’t shelter her forever. If she were two years younger I would probably make a different decision, but I really do think that I can give her the tools to deal with him, and that those tools are going to be needed anyway, not just for this, but for how she handles other situations in her life. It’s a lesson she’s going to have to learn, and at least this way I’ll be close by if I’m needed.
I’ve weighed the options, and preparing GG and then attending really does seem to be the best option. I signed GG up for something for part of the time he’s in town, so we’re down to just a few days of seeing him. I think that this is as good as it is going to get. We’re done running. I’ve been assured he’ll behave. I don’t really think he will, but I do think he’ll tone it down, test the waters before he does anything too bad. And I’ll stand up to his testing in a way that will make it clear that the water he’s testing out has some electrical wires in it and he might want to get out of the water and stop testing it.
Sometimes you have to deal with bullies. Sometimes it works to ignore or avoid them, but sometimes in life you just don’t have that option. GG is going to have to learn to deal with them at some point in her life and, like I said in the original blog post, there is no time like the present.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Clearly your uncle is a jerk looking for attention.
But I want to scream at the rest of your family for taking his side. They should be protecting GG and TT also and trust and respect your feelings on the matter.
They shouldn’t expect you to go anyway, since he’s not even TT & GG’s “real” family.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Hi RQ
I would not go to none of the 8 days …I would just do something special with the girls. If you do go, you will be uncomfortable and will not enjoy your visit. Your Uncle will not stop mouthing off, he has done this for so long he does not know how to quit, if he try! Good Luck
Teresa
May 14th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
You are definitely a better person than I am. I just don’t do toxic relatives or people. I accept most people in my family but I draw the line when it comes to people spitting venom at everyone, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be around anyone that supported this. For me life is too short, and I wouldn’t want to waste it on people like that.
My older children know and understand what meaness is, and as children they have a right not to be around it regardless whether it is a relative or not. Thankfully, we don’t really have anyone in our family that is mean, difficult
yes, opinionated yes, loud yes, dramatic yes, but that is different than being a jerk. I totally understand why you are going to be around them, but for us, I wouldn’t waste any precious seconds. You are defintely one forgiving and patient person.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
One of my uncles told a cousin of mine, who was adopted, that she couldn’t be in the family picture at our reunion because she wasn’t a blood relative. Needless to say it changed how I feel about this particular uncle. He wasn’t trying to be mean, its just how he thinks. WOW!
May 14th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
I recently had to pick my child over my father… I found out while I was pregnant last summer that he was 1.) cheating on my mother after 39 yrs and 2.) doing cocaine…
No brainer! As much as I love my father, he is toxic and is not allowed at my home or to see my children. Did it hurt me, and my dd?? yep… it also hurt my niece that adored my father.
I understand not wanting to sever a relationship with one Grand over another, but I have to say that while it hurts her, she knows that I made the best decision that I could make.
Honestly, if it were me- my family could kiss my big fat toe. I don’t need them that badly and neither do my children if they are willing to continually “take up for” some turd making nasty comments to us. If my mother did that with my uncle, oh well… they’d see the back of our heads and that would be that. It would kill me, but it would happen. My children have some wonderful people in their lives that would make it a point to be stand in Grands if that happened to us.
Our children do need the tools to deal with people like that, but they certainly shouldn’t have to endure it just so that they can see other family members.
I’m so sorry that your Uncle is such a dipwad… I hope that you are able to survive that week’s activities without us seeing something on the news about a woman beating the snot out of some old coot at a family gathering! LOL
I also hope that GG is able to deal with that old fart in a way that teaches him something.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Noendinsight – he is the current patriarch of the family. He has done much worse things to my cousins and their children and yet they still defend him. He is such a great manipulator, so good at twisting words, he can have people defending and adoring him even as he puts them down. Like I said, he’s a 70 year old bully and he is very good at what he does.
He used to be a middle school principal. I guess he learned from the best, since middle school bullies are usually very good at what they do, too.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
RQ, you obviously know your family and children best and whatever you decide, I’m sure you will do with all the best interests of your children at heart.
It is true that you sometimes in life have to deal with bullies. If there is a bully at school, you can talk to the administration, teachers, etc., but ultimately, in most situations anyway, the child has to go to school. I guess I don’t see this family event (or any family event) as the same thing. It would be like going to the playground where the bully and all his bully-supporting family is when you could just go to another playground.
There are many situations in life where you can’t avoid having to deal with rude people, and those can be very useful teaching opportunities. I just don’t see seeking out the bully in order to provide what will naturally happen on its own whether we like it or not. I would not take my daughter to a place where I knew racists gathered so she could learn to deal with racism, for example. Nor would I ignore it when it crops up or fail to prepare her for the eventuality that it one day will. Not throwing her into the middle of it is not the same as failing to prepare her or pretending something doesn’t exist in the world.
It sounds like you have made your decision based on all the factors and perhaps it will not be as you expect. Maybe it will ultimately be a lesson that people can change if they want to (or at least be on their best behavior). I hope that is the case and you all have a wonderful time.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
My husband called and asked that I read Today’s column as his family members are real POS’s. Dad lives 50 miles away and never calls or stop by. Bio-mom left and blames her children my DH for not loving her enough (he was 8)to stay in the same town after the divorce. Alot of people seem to think ‘blood’ is thicker than water and unfortunately his family feels that way. They have not come out to say it outright. We don’t believe it because ‘blood’ can be just as nasty and toxic. Most of us end up in therapy because of our bio-families.
I would not subject my children to this man. It is ultimately your choice; but I don’t mind a fight but you come after my children…it is on, especially when it is family. I am disappointed that your mother does not respect YOU enough to honor your wishes. Most people bend to bullies and that is why narcissitic individuals continue…some fights are not worth it, but he deserved what he got and I don’t care how old you are. I deal w/ a variety of Borderline Personality Disorders all day long. They can easily manipulate people…I would tell your mom that if she does not honor your wishes than she won’t see her grandchildren. Curious which side she will stand on
May 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
RQ,
I almost never comment but this one hit home for me. I am a child of an interracial marriage and my mother’s family was, let us say, less than supportive. My parents, like you, tended to try to keep us away from the more overtly racist ones, but of course there were times when it wasn’t possible to avoid them. My mother loved her family despite all the crap and especially her own grandmother who had pretty much raised her. But to visit great-grandma was to visit the uncles and aunts who were always full of phrases like “half-breed” etc. when we were around.
I know my mother was always torn by these visits and I know she was hard on herself at times for exposing us to that nastiness. But my parents always talked to us before hand and after. They also gave us various tools for dealing with our less than stellar relatives from ignoring or deflecting comments and even tattling when the more confrontational jerks would say things to us behind our mother’s back.
In the end, looking back on it now, I think my mother chose correctly. It was painful and hard but my siblings and I learned valuable skills that have served us well as adults when dealing with prejudice and hate.
I’m not saying anyone out there should go out of their way to expose their children of color to racism, sexism or whatever other form of hate. But you cannot shelter them forever, and, like an inoculation, if you have some control over the dosage, you may just make them stronger in the end.
But that’s just my opinion.
Good luck to you, RK and the girls.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
If I think GG is nervous about this then I will give her the option of bowing out completely and we’ll just deal with an angry family. No, whether I see nervousness or not, I’ll give her the option.
I’m not going to force her to go if she doesn’t want to. I will make it clear that if she doesn’t want to go then we’ll find something else to do.
But, she is pretty excited about seeing a lot of the kids (and a few of the adults) who will be there. Remember, we’ve been planning this and looking forward to it a while now, before we knew Uncle Mike was coming. I really don’t think GG is going to want to back out. I’m pretty sure that when given the choice she is going to verify that I’ll stand up to him if he says something mean and then will say she wants to go.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Wow. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. I do think you are on to something though by realizing that you can’t protect GG forever.
I also think that you are teaching her something very powerful. That she is in control. I was bullied a lot when I was in elementary and junior high (not so much in hs as I learned to fight back) and I can remember coming home from school crying every day about something that had been said. My mom didn’t know how to teach me how to deal with it. I think if she had, my childhood years would have been so different. You are truly giving her a gift.
And, you are also giving her a gift by knowing that no matter what, Mom is behind you. Just being able to have the conversations with her to prepare her for the family events are probably helping her understand that. Words can be so hurtful, but having the strength and the courage to deal with them is very powerful.
I do think it is so sad that you are being forced to be in this position. I have a very small family, and sometimes I am thankful for that.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
all i have to say is you wouldn’t catch me going and i wouldn’t care what anyone else thinks because if he hurt my daughters feeling i would beat up a 70 year old man in front of everyone opps sorry but ignorant family REALLY GETS UNDER my skin
May 14th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
WOW RQ! It must feel weird to be the only normal person in your family. I feel like I’m the only normal person in the family I grew up in, at least extended family see my side. Good job empowering your daughters to not take it.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
My daughters are my first priority. Extended family comes second. If I were concerned that my daughter could be hurt long term, I would not go at all. I’d see my mom later, and that would be the end of it.
I would never put my child in harms way, it would make no difference to me if it was family or someone else intentionally throwing insults at her. She’s going to get it enough without putting her there.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
So, I’m going to be Polyanna here for a little bit. With 10 perfect caucasian bio grandchildren, my parents-in-law were very much opposed to our adoption, as was one of my sisters-in-law. In an apparent final show of opposition, that sister-in-law got the parents-in-law, for the first time ever, a huge framed enlargement of all of the grandkids for Christmas, which was about a week before we got our referral. It was immediately hung over their couch, like they were memorializing the “real” cousins/grandchildren before the new one arrived.
Fastforward a year, by which time the entire family totally fallen in love with our DD. My inlaws always brag about her and the photo was retaken that Thanksgiving and the revised one has been hanging ever since.
So, RQ, maybe GG, now old enough to really show her personality, will win your uncle’s heart and he’ll understand what a jack@ss he was.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
The different viewpoints here really are interesting.
If we weren’t already planning to attend this then maybe I wouldn’t have seen it as something we can’t back out of. But I really don’t want to give GG the idea that we can’t go because of a bully.
If we don’t go then she’ll feel like she is missing out on something she’d been looking forward to because I’m afraid of an uncle. And, like it or not, the other family members are not going to back me up that he’s a jerk. She’ll have to take my word for it, against her grams and against some cousins she likes.
I think I’ve shown her that no matter what he says, she shouldn’t take it personal. He says mean things to everyone. And I’m giving her the tools to either deal with him or pull me into it to deal with him for her. And I will stand up for her, where she can hear it, so it’s not like she’s going to think she had to just take whatever it is he may (or may not) dish out.
That’s what I think some of you don’t get. This has been planned and we’ve all looked forward to it. So do we now turn tail and run because of Uncle Mike, or do we make sure that we’re prepared for him if he can’t behave himself and go anyway.
Plus, if we don’t go then there is going to be a fight that will probably keep her away from her grams and gramps for a while, and that just might hurt her worse than anything Uncle Mike might say… the idea that they put him above her, that “true brother” is better than “adopted grandaughter”. I don’t think that’s it, because I know that “true brother” trumps “bio daughter” (me)… but I’m not sure GG would see it that way.
So, in this case, attending is the best option. Better than running. Unless GG decides she doesn’t want to go, and then we’ll run. I won’t make her if she doesn’t want to go, but I doubt she’ll back down because she’s been looking forward to it.
Oh, did I mention this is a rich uncle and the other cousins are trying to get into his will, but I just don’t give a *&%$?
I think I missed that part.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
So, you have heartless family as well…….what can I say?!? I have found that the older I get, the less tolernate I am to family members that behave in this manner. I feel that if they do not show respect for myself and my family, they are not owed my respect and it doesn’t matter if they are now senior citizens. I have a certain family member that my blood pressure rises (170/110) when I am in the room with him. I have not had the honor of getting my baby yet, BUT, after some of the hurtful adoption comments that he has made to my husband and I, I am not sure I will allow my child around him. I don’t want her (or him) to be subjected to the negativity and just plain bad attitude. I feel for you and I completely understand.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Makes sense now why your family has been so tolerant to his abusive nature and why he treat’s his family like c.r.a.p.
Money.
but I am disappointed how your mom has handled the situation…especially since the 2 of you are so close. As the saying goes, you can pick your friends but not your family.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Holy cow!
“Oh, did I mention this is a rich uncle and the other cousins are trying to get into his will”
THAT certainly puts an interesting spin on things! That explains why everyone is defending him! Wouldn’t it be a hoot if you end up with everything because you are the only one who wasn’t schmoozing him and he ultimately respected you for that? Oh well…. that’s how it might end in the movies…
May 14th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
RQ said: “But I am aware that he could hurt GG in a way that could affect her for a really long time ….”
And aware that your daughter is sensitive.
And aware that the family has been systematically non-supportive (their lack of support could hurt and confuse her far more than this uncle’s comments).
What picnic is worth this kind of danger and pain? Are you treating this as a teachable opportunity because it really is a genuinely safe limited teachable situation that can’t cause much harm? Or because of the ‘family fight’ that would happen if you withdrew?
A loaded, complex, non-supportive, longstanding verbally abusive family situation — where the skilled experienced adult abuser is the patriarch and protected by people GG loves and trusts — does not seem a safe/good teachable opportunity for a sensitive child. Or any child!
She might have to deal with being raped or punched, but you wouldn’t put her in a situation where that was likely to happen so she could try out her child-level judo moves.
You deserved and needed more protection from this person as a child and didn’t get it. But you can break that pattern 100%.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
In my dream for you, GG goes up to him as soon as you arrive and before he says a word, she says, “Hi, Uncle Mike! You’re not going to say anything mean today, are you? It’s just so sad when adults say mean things about children. Now, give me a hug. (pats his shoulder) I forgive you, Uncle Mike.” Then she runs off to play. He doesn’t get a word in. Checkmate.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
DH’s uncle put together a ‘family reunion’ about 13 months after we returned from China with DD#1. We saw family members there that we don’t normally see. When one of DH’s cousins (60-something) saw our daughter for the very first time, he said, “Well, she has Chink written all over her.”
I will NEVER be in the same place with him again. Seriously. If he is going to be ‘there’ — I won’t be, neither will my two beautiful daughters who have lovely, asian features.
You can’t stop stupid or racist.
Don’t go. Have fun with your family by doing something at a different time.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Like what we teach and say in pscy all the time…it is about boundary settings. Knowing what your boundaries are and how to appropriately set them where you are not further victimized.
Lay down the ground rules both with your Uncle Mike as well as the family members who seem to enjoy being the door mat. (sorry, but this touched a nerve)
I always took the BS that my mom shoveled out and now I am learning to set my boudaries and that is telling family and friends what will be tolerated and what will not be tolerate. That way no surprises will occur when I say “enough” and I leave…
Good luck, you are going to need it.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
I don’t think Uncle Idiot can do lifetime damage because, you aren’t going to let that happen.
And she shouldn’t get shortchanged to see lot’s of folks she likes who aren’t a problem.
I would take Uncle Idiot aside by yourself, perhaps with your mom. Tell him you are only here, because he apoligized and you are giving him the benefit of doubt, once. And you expect him to mean and show amends by behaving. I would remind him he admitted he was trying to get a rise out of you. And remind him you are on zero tolerance. And then I would tell him if tries to test you in a small way, you will publicly remind him. And if he persists, you all are gone.
I think it is more important your daughter see you are not going to let him bother her even if he is “family”. She will know she is so much more important.
Besides not going opens all sorts of other emotions for a child.
The why and is it because of me, things like shame, hiding, not good enough stuff……………
Do as much as you can to avoid him and I hope you all have a good time
May 14th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
He’s rich? That explains everything (your cousins)!
May 14th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
If I understand this correctly, RQ and her family have been planning to go before knowing the uncle is going to be there. Her children are excited.
Why let the bully win when GG and TT want to see all their aunts and uncles and cousins and grandparents…
It’s a situation where not going isn’t just keeping GG and TT away from their uncle, but the entire family, and that’s a huge a loss.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Coming from a family with it’s own share of “issues” including a brother (mine not my mom’s :D) similar to that described, I have to say that I would go in the situation as RQ’s described it. GG is prepared, RQ is prepared and ready to act, it’s the best possible situation considering the alternatives RQ’s has described. And in fact, I learned how to deal with my brother on my own by watching my DH deflect him, so there’s something to be said for being in this kind of situation with a protective party present.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Ouch! My heart goes out to you, your husband and daughters. In a way, we will all be with you to support you.
Please let us know how this goes.
May 14th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
This is a fascinating discussion. I am an academic behavioral scientist…long in the tooth. Used to be “sticks and stones” philosophy was the accepted line of thought about slinging insults and bullying. Now, due to Columbine-type shootings and MRI scans of the brain, we know that words actually DO hurt people. So, that philosophy is a little bit dated. Plain and simple your Uncle is an emotional abuser and LIKES being that way. It empowers him and makes him feel rewarded. It is not at all unusual for people around to protect the abuser and blame the victim(s).
I think you are committed to going to the event which is fine but I would not leave your children alone with your Uncle. No one would want to get close to him if he were shooting bullets out of his mouth …those are physically dangerous. And yet, somehow people don’t get that the words injure too…just some place unseen and harder to heal than a bullet wound. In training others about this, I’ve heard a facilitator throw a whole apple down on the floor hard. Pick it up and show everyone that you cannot see the hurt. But, if you look inside (cut it open and see the flesh) there is a big bruise in the apple’s center. Yeah, you can use this as a teaching moment, within reason. Good luck, my heart goes out to you. I became a research psychologist to understand relatives just like this one. (I’m also a “half breed”–Asian/White)
May 14th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
TrulyBlessed–my jaw literally dropped when I read that. What a hateful thing to hear, and I can understand how you would never take the chance of hearing it again.
Because I adopted a son, I often get “What’s wrong with him?” I usually deflect it with “China now adopts out many boys, it is becoming quite common.” And if they persist, a not-so-polite “What’s wrong with you?” usually ends the conversation. Seriously, anyone who can look at a child and not see only happiness is just pitiful and not worth conversation.
May 14th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
You must have the patience of saint to put up with your uncle at all! Personally, I’d just duck out of family gatherings that you you know he’ll be attending (with the exception of big things like weddings & funerals). You can get together with your other (nicer) family members when he’s not around. If you absolutely have to be in the room with him, and your daughters have to be there too, just keep as far away from him as possible & don’t bother to be polite — just take the girls & walk away from him if he says something offensive. That’s what I’d do, but then again, my patience with annoying people reached its limit a long time ago…
May 14th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
something my mom & dad taught me years ago (i mean i was 7-9 yrs old – maybe younger) during a particular hard relationship where i was dealing with 2 difficult and diverse individual relationships. 1 was a social misfit who was kind but just so odd to be with and “uncool” that it made it hard for me to choose at that age to see past that to see her heart and the other was just a mean “cool” girl that used and abused whoever to stay “cool” but made us all desire to be her. anyway, what they taught me was basically this “there will always be an “uncle mike” in your life – there will always be someone turn up in your life that is difficult to love, to accept, to befriend, to be loyal to, to suck your energy, to be (you fill in the blank) – you must choose and learn how to deal with me in a way that builds character of life, peace and joy in you so the next time one pops up, you are able to deal with them and move on without the drama, stress, control and issues that they bring”. i love my parents for they not only told me that but they began to show me how to practically deal with and resolve within myself how to cope. let me tell you in the past 30 yrs since, i have run into every type that you can imagine and some have taken much imagination to deal with but i have many resources b/c of them to draw upon. give yourself and your daughters the coping skills that will bring forth life in them in the future. don’t run, that does nothing, show them how to to deal, with integrity, kindness and grace that brings internal peace, strength and joy.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Wow.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
RQ, I’m sorry your children are having to deal with this issue. I wish that your family would be more supportive.
We have a similar family issue. DH & I have seen a family counselor regarding this family dynamic. We have simply removed the family member that is abusive. And there is no doubt that this is kind of behavior is abuse. We have most of my DH family angry (and yes that includes DH’s mom & sister). We have even had to restrict DH’s mom’s visitation because she will not acknowledge that this person has done anything wrong.
Our counselor said that DH’s mom’s enabling behavior of the abuse is just as damaging to our children as the abuse. We have asked that she go to counseling either by herself or with us as adults (but not with my children present) she is not interested. So she has not seen her grand children in almost three years.
I have family on my side of that say we are being mean and how much could it hurt? But it can hurt and my children are 3 & 5 years old and unable to defend themselves against grown-ups and as their parents we will not let this behavior continue around them. My DH still visits his family and we have offered for some family members to visit us at our house, but they have never made the drive (only 1 hr away). As you could guess that I am not wanted at their home now… because of course it is all my fault. (And yes my DH is the one who deals with his family and has told them in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that this is his decision!)
Once our children are old enough to understand the behavior and why people are abusive we will revisit the issue with the guidance of our family counselors. Our counselor helped provide us with a good explaination to provide to people that object to our actions.
“If it was a stranger behaving in this matter would you let your xx age child be subject to the abuse/behavior? If you won’t let a stranger do it why would you let someone who should be a loving family member treat them worse than a STRANGER?” This statement usually turns on a light bulb with people who at least acknowledge that what the family member is doing is wrong/abusive.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Since neither RK or I will allow any abuse, that shouldn’t be a problem.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
RQ
It’s my first time writing so I have to say–this is a marvelous resource you’ve created.
FWIW, my grandfather could be overbearing at times, and I remember clearly once when we was criticizing my younger brother too much during a trip to their house. My brother must have been about 6. Anyways, my father raised his voice quite sharply, something we’d never seen him do to our grandfather, and told him clearly to cut my brother some slack. It made a big impression on us and I think my brother appreciated it a lot.
I hope the visit works out.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Well, RQ, we’ll be praying for you.
Check this out. My family. I have a family member who is a racist bigot (not redundant, just emphasizing). She boycotted my sister’s wedding, because it is an inter-racial marriage. She won’t allow my brother-in-law into her house. When another family member was dating an asian lady (like 15 years ago), she made a comment about not wanting relatives with “slanty eyes.”
Fast forward to now. My brother is getting married this weekend. She is staying at my parents’ house. My mother can’t understand why we don’t want to stay there.
There is a member of my family who has stated “you don’t understand adoption” because we were going outside these borders to love our daughter. Don’t understand? Come August, we will have been in this process for 5 years!
So yes, I must run interference for my family this weekend and try to defend my wife and son from hearing people’s stupidity. I must also defend my daughter who I’ve never even been able to hold yet.
Let the fun begin!
May 14th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
RQ, I honestly feel like you are a part of my family. After I got home from work. I had to read your blog again. It bothers me to say this but, your Mother really needs a serious heart to heart. In the blog, you pointed out that your Mother tricked you to be here while your horrible Uncle is in town and that is just plain wrong. She shouldn’t be manipulating you just to get her way. Especially when your children’s feelings are at stake…..actually, my Mother in-law used to manipulate my husband to get us to attend events just because she wanted us there. So, I do understand.
May 14th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Nice to hear that this kind of crap happens in other people’s families too…
I think that by taking her daughters to this family gathering and running the risk of exposure to her uncle’s bad behavior, RQ is doing the right thing. Children have to learn that you can’t always run away and hide from nasty people, and that sometimes family politics dictate that you just have to suck it up and be in the same room with people you don’t care for. It’s part of the human condition.
I think it would also be beneficial for RQ to emphasize to GG that her uncle is an old man, and that sometimes old people say things they shouldn’t say because the rules were different when they were growing up and learning how to behave. Times change, and what was acceptable 50 years ago is often no longer acceptable, but sometimes the old people just can’t change how they think and speak. All you can do is feel sorry for them, because trying to make old people change their behavior usually doesn’t work and just makes them and other members of the family upset.
Believe me, I’ve had experience in this area. My father is 72 and a real PITA. He prides himself on saying exactly what he thinks and doesn’t care who doesn’t like it. He loves my daughter (age 3) and hasn’t ever said anything improper in front of her, but enjoys telling me how people years ago used to say they were “going out for Chinks” when they meant they were going out for Chinese food… when I tell him this is inappropriate, he protests, “But that’s what they used to say! I’m just telling you a true story!” He only does it because his number one favorite pastime is trying to get a rise out of me, his “know-it-all” daughter…
May 14th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
What a nightmare…..I think I’d be whispering some very precise and serious warnings in his ear the moment I stepped in the door. (And then would give the girls permission to whack him in the shins with his walking stick…..(did I just say that?))
Seriously, it sounds like you have a very good plan in place and I think it’s great that you’ve given GG examples of ways he’s hurt other cousins…..that way if he does say something, it won’t be an attack only on her. But, I’m so sorry you have to even deal with him…..some people never grow up.
Good luck and let us know how it goes! (And if she takes my shin advice *wink*)
LID 4/13/07
http://www.faithhopeandlove-fhl.blogspot.com/
May 14th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Oh, one more thing I’ll just add: I don’t think, RQ, that you need to be overly worried about your uncle saying something hurtful directly to your daughter or within her earshot. GG is not the target; you are. I think I know his type, and they don’t make a practice of picking on children. Children don’t make a satisfactory target. Bullies like your uncle know that they can’t score any points by taking shots at innocent children. The points come from taking the shots at people like you: articulate, confident, successful, possibly an object of envy not just by him but by other members of the family (who, being present at a family gathering, might be an appreciative audience for his efforts). And the fact that you’re a woman doesn’t hurt either… articulate, confident, successful women are prime targets for troublemakers like your uncle…
May 14th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
RQ
I completely understand why you have to go …. and why you don’t want to. Our problem relatives are my in-laws. I’ve spent many an hour discussing with my friend, who is a counselor, my fears of what MIL will say to our DD some day based on the things she has said so far about me and my adoption, how she initially reacted when we told her we were adopting, and even how she reacted when we adopted a dog from the humane society instead of getting a purebred dog. I do think she’s made progress in the almost 4 years since we started paperchasing, but there are still really awful things that spew out of their mouths (my FIL told me to my face that they are concerned I won’t be a good mother) and while I’ve not said much so far, I know I won’t be able to keep my mouth shut once DD is home and old enough to understand. I know she’ll have to learn to face cruelty one day, but it shouldn’t come from family.
What you can’t risk, and why I get why you are going, is the relationship between GG and her gramps and the relationship you have with your parents. It makes me really sad that your mom doesn’t get it. Really, really sad. It makes me mad your dad won’t stand up to your mom because he obviously loves your girls like crazy cakes.
The best advice I’ve seen so far is go and be with others who aren’t toxic. If he starts to come close, shepard the girls away. Take the high road where you can and if you have to leave, then leave as politely but as quickly as you can. There’s no excuse for rude behavior on his part no matter how old and rich he may be, and that is the only explanation that you need for leaving.
BTW – the money thing really explains a lot. At first I couldn’t figure out why your cousins didn’t at least support you when he wasn’t around, but now I get it. It disgusts me, but I get it.
Let us know what happens. And thanks for the post. I need the distraction as the wait is really getting to me…. we have a 3.14.06 LID.
May 15th, 2009 at 5:43 am
Ruizhousmom, I think you’ve hit on important points. RQ doesn’t kowtow to him like everyone else because she doesn’t need him, which may irk him to no end.
May 15th, 2009 at 5:54 am
Your daughter will be sorry if she does not attend this gathering, she will miss her cousins. She might be nervous about the possibility of meeting Uncle Grumpy, about the possibility of being hurt, but you will be there to protect here. Keep sight of her. Furthermore, she might be more hurt by the consequences of not going to this gathering. (Not seeing her grand-parents for a while).
Your daughter, and most of ours also, will eventually meet bullies. At school, at work someday, at family gatherings they will come along. Might as well have her first encounter in a controlled setting. Do words hurt? I think so. They might hurt less if you know they are coming. Our wonderful social worker who did our home study for our first adoption had great advice. She had experience as a social worker and was a grandmother of 3 girls from China.
At first I was shocked. She told us all the possible words, situations, remarks our daughter might encounter. It was our first adoption (waiting for dd no. 3), we never thought people would be so mean. How naive! What we did was simple. When the timing was right, we talk to her, the words come up. Sometimes she has questions about her adoption, we answer them with love, answers comes from our heart, and then we may tell her what people might say. We make sure she can repeat the difference. At first I was not sure she would react properly to a situation. But she did. I was not with her, it was at day-care. A little girl came up to her and said her big sister (daughter no. 1 is bio) was not her real sister because she was adopted. She had her answers, the reply came promptly without hesitation. She simply answered that her big sister might not be her bio sister but she was her real sister. The have now the same parents, they love us, they take of us, they will be our parents forever, BOTH OF US, plus she added her big sisted came to get her in China with her parents, and that for her is a big deal. For a 4 y.o. I was so proud of her.
After that episode, I knew she might be hurt some day by some stupid word, but we will continue the straight talk, the loving talk, we will continue to give her tools to face the world, we will continue to do the best we can.
RQ, you know what’s best for your daughter and you did have a great talk with her. Good luck with the ”event”.
May 15th, 2009 at 6:49 am
It is one thing for our kids to have to deal with bullies at school or other public venues. It is entirely different to expect them to deal with bullies in thier own families– at family events.
My father sounds a lot like your Uncle Mike. I have not seen him in over 5-years and he has not met my bi-racial stepkids or DD. I have no plans for this to happen in the near future.
Your Uncle admitted he was saying mean things on purpose to upset you. Did your mom or any other family members reprimand him for that? Or is it OK because of his age?
I really don’t understand why people put up with someone like that.
My Dad has pretty much ostracized himself from the rest of the family for that kind of behavior. But, my family if fairly dysfunctional anyway. I really only see one relative– an Uncle who is serving the role as Yi Yi to DD.
Perhaps your Uncle will be on his best behavior after the last time and your family being out of town the last few times he came to visit.
I wish you the best of luck. Do you have any ideas of how you will handle future family events if Uncle Mike does do or say something mean to GG?
May 15th, 2009 at 10:35 am
I think family should be a “safe” place. And if they choose not to be safe, then THEY are choosing not to be family. I have an uncle that was also a problem…I let it be known from the time that SR was very young, that we would not be around him and if they want us to attend any event, then he had better not be there…so he no longer gets invited to much…but I was completely prepared to walk away and not look back. Yes, we would have missed out on having family around, but like I said, if they aren’t safe, then I wouldn’t consider them family anyway. And anyone who tries to defend him is just as bad as he is, and we don’t want to be around them either. Of course it helped in our situation that he REALLY angered some other family members right around the time that I was putting my foot down, and also that my mother saw my point and was willing to do anything to prevent SR from being hurt. I think there are plenty of non-family opportunities for teaching moments. And yes, it would be a shame to have to back out of something that the kids were looking forward to, but I would not let my family manipulate me into doing something that I wouldn’t have done if I had known all of the facts up front…it might bankrupt me, but I would find something MORE fun for us to do that week.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:36 am
RQ – Bless you for your earnest efforts up to this point to deal with your Uncle and to satisfy your Mom. It sounds as if the time has come to deny him the privilege of your company, and that of both GG and TT. He has made it clear that the well-being of you and your children is less important than his entertainment. Take his behaviors at face value. He very deliberately intends to be a direct threat to your (and your daughters’) well-being, and your moral obligation is to protect your daughters, and yourself for their sake. Your mom’s desires are secondary to your families’ well-being.
IMHO, you MUST deny him the opportunity to harm you all.
May 15th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Wow…all I can think of to say is….Family you gotta love them, but sometimes you just don’t like them.
Good Luck, you and RK sound like you have the best plan for your kids…
Mean people stink!
May 15th, 2009 at 11:42 am
RQ,
Best of wishes to you and your family as you deal with this. I love how you have prepared your daughter and how you turned something so possiblly negative into a learning experience. (Thank you for the book recommendation also.)
You might want to conisder purchasing each of your daughters a necklace with a whistle or some other noise maker – that way if they feel cornered or attacked, they can call for Mom (or Dad). If the whistle needs to be blown, it will send a clear signal to you but also to the remainder of your family. If not, it was just a cool toy that your girls had that day( or days).
May 15th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Dear RQ,
Don’t you know the underlying rule that typically the sun rises and sets between a son and his mother??? I am a daughter who doesn’t undrstand that because I WAS THE ONE to care for her in her old age, and I WAS THE ONE to bring her to the doctor and nurse her (some VERY TOUGH stuff I had to do) pay the bills meet ALL the needs, but yet at her death bed she cried for her SON!!! It TRUELY is ok because I walk away having NO REGRETS!!!!!! God is good!!
May 15th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
honey
we all have very toxic people in our lives
there is no way to stop them
people generally cannot be “fixed”
although we wish they could
family are difficult –
but in general we must find ways to rid the toxic people from our lives – as one gets turfed a new one enters our life -
they are everywhere :)
life is much too short to try to change this -
love your life with your kids
my own brother told my father not to call him “for a while” and not to invite him to family gatherings – my brother would let him know when he could start again –
this was the only way to rid my father from my brother’s life -
my father was very destructive to his sense of self -
this has worked wonders – as my father has grappled with why his own son no longer wants to see him – this is literally years of my brother talking, explaining, asking, trying to find a good middle ground – he has finally given up on my father – too many wasted years of hurt that could have been solved much sooner.
we cannot change people
that is just a romantic idea of life -
this is my “two sense worth” :)
cheers
May 17th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
RQ,
I can’t believe it, our Uncle Mike’s must be related. My Dh younger brother, loud, abnoxious and completely irrelevant in my life, became mad at me 8 years ago because I wouldn’t front anymore money for a drug addicted family member. He told me in a screaming rage that he had my number since I couldn’t have kids of my own I had to buy other peoples. My father in law told me to get over it. So I tolerated him. At a family reunion he announced he wanted a picture of all the men in the family who would carry on the name, when my dh rounded up our boys, he seemed offended. I tolerate him, I can sit in a room and never look in his direction or answer his questions. If the day ever comes when it the kids and I we are changing our names. Dh tells the kids he hit Uncle Mike in the head to many time when they were kids. When my oldest called him goofy to his face and he got all bent out of shape dh says be grateful thats a lot nicer then what there mother calls you. I guess all kids are going to be a victim of an Uncle Mike, he may be the bully on the playground, he may be just the stupid relative we all have to deal with, I guess it may easier to learn how to deal with it now. I would like to videotape mine use it for a training instructional on how not to be a jacka–..
May 18th, 2009 at 4:20 am
Thought of you today, RQ, and hope everything went well.