TB Testing – Trying to find solutions
After talking with a number of people yesterday, it appears that this isn’t going to be an easy thing to find solutions for.
The CDC is convinced that this is necessary, and the CCAA seems to be a bit insulted that the U.S. thinks China is third world enough to warrant these kinds of tests. A few agencies have asked for (and offered to pay the expenses for) chest x-rays ahead of time so they can make sure there won’t be problems if the child is positive on the skin test. Some orphanages are not being very helpful, and the CCAA isn’t insisting that they cooperate.
Bill Clinton did so good in Korea, maybe he can mediate with the CDC for us? I’m joking, sort of… but the point is that we need someone high up to talk to the CDC on this one. They don’t intend to budge, they see a problem (drug resistant TB starting to take hold), they have the authority to do this, and by golly they don’t think anyone can stop them. I don’t believe we are going to get them to completely do away with testing at this point. It’s possible, but from the conversations being reported to me, it doesn’t seem likely. What seems more likely is trying to find a middle ground, something so they can still say there is testing, but that allows for families to have some confidence they will actually be able to come home with their child in one trip.
Some other countries take two trips. I know many people chose China because it is just one trip and not two. But we may be looking at the possibility of China being two trips for some people. The alternative would be leaving one parent in China. One parent could stay in China for four months for about the the cost of one round trip flight that is bought at the last minute ($1500 to $1800). But only if that parent doesn’t work… so a SAHM could stay in China cheaper than the cost of the flight, but a working mom could not. (Assuming that parent can get their Visa to stay in China lengthened.) Of course, we are talking about more than just the cost of a flight, if a parent can stay in China then that would be everything to the child, to be able to stay with at least part of their new forever family during that time. But most of us don’t have unlimited finances, so I’m trying to point out the financial costs even though I realize the emotional costs are so much higher.
What other alternatives are there? Could we work with one of the travel insurance companies so they paid for either expenses for staying, or for emergency medical flight out? If the latter, could we convince the CDC and USCIS to issue a Visa if we have a way to get the child home without risking other passengers? Would the travel insurance companies see enough of a market to even bother offering that type of insurance? And if they did, would the costs be within the range that most families could afford to purchase the insurance?
Sadly, one alternative being discussed is that agencies take families to have chest x-rays on any children over two soon after receiving the children, and that families not finalize an adoption on any child with a questionable chest x-ray unless one or both parents are prepared to stay in GZ indefinitely if the child tests positive on the skin test in GZ.
Perhaps we can make an end run around the CDC? If we could get things rewritten so that the child is an American citizen as of the ceremony in GZ instead of when they arrive on US soil then the CDC would no longer have this kind of authority over them. Unfortunately, our lawmakers are a bit busy right now, so I doubt that could be a quick fix… but it might be something we look at doing as a longer term project.
I don’t have an easy solution to this problem. What I’m trying to do today is provide a place for the community to brainstorm.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:15 am
RQ, those are all excellent suggestions but, and I’m sorry if this sounds as crass here as it sounds in my head, I think the best solution will somehow have a financial connection. When I think of other successful, historical movements or agendas, again I’m searching for good words {cognizant of yesterday’s “thing” discussion}, it seems as though the people in charge usually start listening when it affects their finances. How can we, as a community, engage the right people’s pocketbooks in a meaningful way to affect positive change that is healthy for all parties?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:24 am
The department of health and human services overseas/is in charge of CDC; the head of the department of health and human services is appointed by the President.
Speaking of Clinton, sort of… :-) maybe the Secretary of State could help? That positions was vital to getting home the family that lost a spouse after adoption before consulate appointment.
I think it’s a federal government path to getting them all home.
I’m not familiar with every program. Don’t countries that require 2 trips not necessarily give any custody to the parent prior to coming home? The children are only visited in the orphanage/baby home during the first trip.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:33 am
I have no idea how we could possibly do anything to financially hurt the CDC.
What you are looking for is a bargaining tool. Bargaining tools come in the form of 1) Power and 2) Money. Since the money option is likely out, we’ll go for the power option. Which means that if we can get some lawmakers behind the idea of making our children US Citizens during the little ceremony in Guangzhou… If we could make that happen then the CDC would not be able to do anything at all, they would lose some of the power they currently have. If we could point out that either they work with the adoption community or they risk losing the control they currently have… maybe they could be convinced to work with us? We’d probably need to get some lawmakers to tell the CDC that they are willing to back us first, though.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:42 am
kms – so, you think a letter writing campaign to Hillary Clinton?
Or are you thinking of a letter writing campaign to Kathleen Sebelius?
Does anyone know what is going on with the family in China? They’ve taken down their request for media intervention… does that mean things are going well, or does it just mean they’ve been contacted by media and no longer need help with that?
August 5th, 2009 at 10:48 am
…or does it mean they are being threatened by CCAA that they have to take it down or else….
August 5th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Guangdong – I don’t follow what you’re saying. Who would the CCAA threaten?
August 5th, 2009 at 11:16 am
I’m just trying to think outside the box of complaining to the Ambassador, Local Reps and the CDC. Anything and everything is a possibility.
No idea if they are still in country.
The amazing thing is they aren’t being restricted/advised to refrain from airline, bus or train travel. It’s not the airline not allowing them to leave. It’s not China not allowing them to leave. It’s the US not allowing them a VISA.
Kristine
August 5th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
The family in China’s blog has requested that everyone hold off contacting people for the next two days and they suggested that things may end favorably. Does this sound promising for others coming after them or do you think it is just for their situation. I hope they get some good news because I do think the series of events for them wasn’t handled correctly.
August 5th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
I think there needs to be a big coordinated effort from the adoptive community (or maybe people are already working on this?) rather than just piecemeal letters to our representatives asking for a change. This is clearly a low priority for the federal government, but if there’s one thing clear in the US, it’s that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. But a big shock and awe campaign with plenty of media coverage would be hard to ignore. I would certainly be willing to take to the streets. I don’t know, maybe that isn’t feasible at all.
August 5th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
LouiseMe – no one is saying to do anything yet. Today is about brainstorming, deciding what the best course of action may be. If we can come up with something that has a chance of working then people begin the process behind the scenes, and once things are in place then a call goes out to the adoption community of where to send letters and emails and faxes and phone calls. No one is saying to do anything just yet, we’re discussing options. Yes, people have been calling and emailing the CDC on behalf of the family in China, but no one should be doing anything yet about trying to get a change in the general policy as it stands now. We brainstorm first, throw ideas around, that’s what is happening today.
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chinapromise – thanks for the heads up, it looks like people have noted that in the forum on the threads with the phone numbers, too.
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Guangdong – since you haven’t answered, I have to say that I don’t see the CCAA “threatening” anyone about this. The TB testing is purely something being required by the CDC (with the USCIS being charged with implementing it), the CCAA isn’t likely to get involved in that.
August 5th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Ah, Guangdong – you’re saying the CCAA is threatening the family to take down the media request? I don’t see them doing that. The CCAA isn’t really involved here.
It does appear that the CDC is tired of the phone calls and emails, as they’ve apparently asked the family to have us stop. That’s a good thing, it means the CDC now knows the adoption community has a large voice, and isn’t afraid to use it when necessary.
August 5th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
IMPORTANT UPDATE from family “stuck” in China with their TB daughter
August 5th
We genuinely appreciate everyone’s help and support; the outpouring of emails and help for us has been overwhelming, and we are truly, deeply gratified.
We ask now, that at least for the next day or so, everyone making phone calls to various agencies and the CDC, PLEASE STOP FOR THE MOMENT. The agencies have a very big decision to make today and tomorrow, and they need the peace of mind and clarity to concentrate on doing the right thing.
For work to continue forward at this point on our case, the CDC and all other agencies involved need to be freed up from emails and phone calls. We are under the impression that this could have a favorable ending, so again, PLEASE STOP ALL PHONE CALLS AND EMAILS.
Please post this to any blogs that you may have posted to in the past, or any forums, or in any emails you may have sent. It is urgent that, for the moment, these emails and phone calls stop.
The next two days are critical, pray for us, think good thoughts for us, and send some positive energy our way, we can surely use it right now. We want Harper on the plane with us on Friday!
Thank you,
Jay, Candace and Harper
August 5th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
I really don’t like the idea of 2 trips.
The time & cost of this adoption have both skyrocketed from the initial predictions.
August 5th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I am wondering if some organization that both China and the US have confidence in such as LWB or Half the Sky could come in and administer the TB test prior to adoption. Prior to the families coming. That organization would sign off on the results, which would be presented at the consulate medical exam. If the test is positive the families wait until further tests are done.
I think both of those organizations have some access to medical workers who could do the testing. I suppose the families would have to pay a charge to have it done, but that is probably preferable to going and finding out your child is TB positive.
August 5th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
RQ said “If we could get things rewritten so that the child is an American citizen as of the ceremony in GZ instead of when they arrive on US soil then the CDC would no longer have this kind of authority over them.”
Am I wrong in thinking that the FACE act would basically do this?
August 5th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Yes, it would… sort of. Here is a link to the text of the bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3110:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.1359:
I wonder how the consulate portion would work with this bill in place, though. I mean, I’m assuming the consulate will still have to say that all of those things are done, kind of an affirmation that the US is going to recognize the adoption – with the relevant paperwork so we can take the child home. Would they only recognize the adoption if the CDC says they can? I’d like that addressed somehow. If done correctly then that would take care of the immunization issue, too. Wouldn’t it?
August 5th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Okay, so those links don’t work… if you want to read the text go to:
http://thomas.loc.gov/
and type in
Foreign Adopted Children Equality Act
into the search box, and that will bring it up.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
How about someone with contacts speak with Senator John McCain — as an adoptive parent and as a high-ranking US official, perhaps he can come up with something that would satisfy the CDC’s concerns and get this sweet child home!
August 5th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
I just read through the FACE act and I am a little concerned that by issuing a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (even if it lists place of birth as China) that this is somehow glossing over the birth stories of adopted children.
I have a bio daughter who was born abroad and I just looked at her consular report of birth abroad. I am trying to picture this document if it could have been issued for my daughters adopted in China. And it would say that they were born to my husband and I in China.
That just seems wrong to me. Old-school adoption stigma coverup wrong.
And I know that is not the focus or the intent of this legislation but, if that is the result it just rubs me the wrong way. I know some will say the ends justifies the means but I can’t get past the idea that FACE will send all our children home with a bit of their history obliterated.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
When you readopt here in the U.S., the new state issued birth certificate lists you as the parents. I do not see how a Consular Report of Birth Abroad would be any different. Maybe I am missing something though.
August 6th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Ah. Good point about the state certificate. I guess I view the state certificate a little differently in part because I am from PA where we don`t need to readopt to get a state birth certificate. We get a court order accepting the foreign adoption and also a certificate of recognition of foreign adoption and then the amended birth certificate — which sort of keeps the history intact. The readoption is optional and I don’t know anyone who has done it.
I don’t know if the Chinese adoptees would still get a Chinese passport. Without the U.S. immigrant visa and with immediate issuance of a US passport at the consulate, there would be no need for a foreign passport in which to put the U.S. immigrant visa.
I guess I like the idea that my daughters were Chinese citizens (and I have their China passports to prove it) and then they became US citizens (and got a certificate of citizenship to prove it). And also there is a U.S. visa in the Chinese passport that shows the bridge between two important parts of their lives. And the Consular Report of Birth Abroad just doesn’t represent the realities of that transition in the same way that two passports and a visa represent those realities.
Maybe I’m being too philosphical about the whole paperwork “thing” in light of the fact that there are real families with heartache situations that could be corrected with this legislation. I just feel like we have so few facts for our daughters and this solution is robbing us of some of the tangible evidence of some of those facts.
August 6th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Well, duh, I should have known that someone else had already said it better than I could:
http://www.ethicanet.org/international-adoption-ethica’s-positions-on-pending-legislation#more-1357
August 6th, 2009 at 1:03 am
What klem said. :)
August 6th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Doesn’t the child need the Chinese passport to travel from say Nanjing on a plane to Guangzhou?
I know adult adoptees differ on their opinions of this. It’s hard to predict ahead of time. We can’t assume or dismiss any of the potential reactions.
There is still a Chinese birth certificate. As well as the finding ad and the adoption paperwork. In our case since we’re not Chinese it’s hardly a secret to DS or anyone else he’s adopted. The state certificate of foreign birth after the readopt lists us as parents and I consider accurate. A child may feel pleased the US considered them to be citizens from the beginning. How would a child feel knowing their future country didn’t want to let them in cause they were less or a not in a “real” enough family? If she was born to them, this wouldn’t be an issue. A few weeks of treatment and ready for air travel if she had been born to them. What is Harper going to think in 20 years about all this?
I’d like the consulate as helpful to our child during the trip as to us should something happen. That’s not the case currently. In fact they encourage us not to travel on the Chinese passport after arriving in the US since it’s the US passport that holds the right of assistance.
Kristine
August 7th, 2009 at 12:19 am
Read the latest update. They cannot bring their child home. Dr. Tom Frieden is the reason. He was appointed by the president and took over on June 8 and didn’t need confirmation from the senate. If you read his history you will find he isn’t one to be swayed. There was no way this man was ever going to rule in their favor. The only way around this is for our children to be granted citienship before entering our country. I agree with the previous commentor that John McCain might be a good help as he is an adoptive father and his wife is so active with orphan causes. It is a shame that adopted children are not being granted the same rights as biological children. How come only IA children are being tested when they apply for visas? What about all the other legal and illegal immigrants? IA makes up such a small group of immigrants is it really going to make a difference when we are surely getting medical care for our children. It seems like we are an easy target.
August 7th, 2009 at 6:59 am
NovLID said:
“The only way around this is for our children to be granted citienship before entering our country.”
That’s how it’s done here. Same rights as biological children from the moment adoption is complete in China. Sure the US must be able to handle it the same way? Not that I see it should be necessary… There’s no TB testing of any children to get a VISA to enter my country, I truly don’t think that’s the best way to fight the resistent TB stems.