The Hague, and the extra red tape
Let’s talk a little today about how the Hague is affecting those who are having to go that route.
I know that for families in the NSN program there is an extra step between referral and returning the LOA, and that those families are often traveling several weeks, if not a full month, later than non-Hague families.
How is it affecting the families in the SN program? Is it making that process take longer, too?
I know there are some people who are considering just letting their paperwork expire so they don’t have to keep renewing over and over, but those who have done that and had to go the Hague route all seem to counsel against that if at all possible. Maybe some of you can talk about your experience and help those trying to make their decisions?
October 28th, 2009 at 7:26 am
Originally, our agency told us to let our paperwork expire and we would apply to US CIS when we were within nine months of receiving a referral. NOW…The agency has stated that everyone must keep up there paperwork no matter where they are in the process to stay in their program. I think this is making PAPs think long and hard about redoing their paperwork when they are still facing a wait with no end in sight. The agency has also issued a statement that PAPs must contact them immediately if anything in our home study changes that effects their eligibility to adopt.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:18 am
We have already completed one concurrent adoption and with a China LID of 4/07, I expect to complete at least one more, maybe two before being matched to a child. (If we don’t just give up on China entirely by then.) So, we will have to become a Hague case if we do end up completing our China adoption. What a pain. Another reason I’m strongly considering bailing on China.
RC
October 28th, 2009 at 8:19 am
Meant to say…it’s a real drag for those of us with later pre-Hague LIDs who have pursued concurrent adoptions.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:37 am
We are adopting through the SN programs this time and are a Hague Family.
I am no expert– I don’t think we have any Hague experts thus far inlcuding the folks processing the paperwork!
I think the process from referral/LOA to travel is the same for NSN and SN. It is taking much longer (referral to travel) than it did for our first adoption completed in Spring 2008.
After getting LOA you have to send the signed LSC letter and the I-800 application to USCIS for approval. I believe that some agencies do this while other agencies leave it to the parents to do it. When the I-800 is approved, I believe it is then sent to the consulate in GZ for something called an Article 5 (not really sure what this is but is what comes just before TA) then TA can be issued.
Our agency says LOA to TA is ranging between 50 and 80 days. I think after TA, travel is generally 2 weeks later.
For our first adoption we were on the plane to China 6-weeks after we received our referral.
I understand the purpose of the Hague is to help insure that prospective families are appropriate/safe– Child abuse checks in all states/countries where you have lived; finacials are actually verified; and also educated (somewhat) about international adoption (how much are you really going to learn in 10-hours of training?– Better than none though).
This is all done as part of the homestudy.
I am assuming that there are additional steps required on the sending country’s side of things to help prevent the occurence of Child Trafficking.
I don’t really understand how these extra forms post referral help to prevent child trafficking and/or adoption by persons who are not suitable to parent.
It will be interesting to hear what others know of the process.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Rumor Queen…do you have any further advice for those of us that are having to switch agencies because our current agency is not Hague Accredited? My research so far seems to indicate no one knows how it is supposed to happen or what the rules from the CCAA are. My concern is that we will complete the transition and then find out we did somthing wrong and it will affect out LID.
HELP!!
October 28th, 2009 at 9:04 am
The other issue with Hague families is that they require numerous vaccinations for their children during the medical exam in Guangzhou. I’m not sure if there is an age thing with requiring the vaccinations, but it can be so difficult for the kids at a very vulnerable time. We were lucky to still be a non Hague family and were able to wait until we got home and had titers done. Fortunately, she only needed one vaccination.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:03 am
With our first SN adoption in 2007 we celebrated our LOA as pretty much the final step to bringing our son home. We travelled to China about a month later (and that was even a bit delayed because of the Oct holidays). This time around, we received our LOA at day 62 and we are currently on day 61 waiting for our TA. Meaning, instead of being one of the final steps LOA has now become the midpoint of the SN adoption wait. It is hard to wrap your head around. I wish with my whole heart that we had applied before Hague came into effect as we would have had our daughter home for a month or so already.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Our origional 171H was expiring right at the time our domestic adoption was finalizing. The “free” renewal was going to cost close to $2000. With our domestic adoption going on at the same time, we didn’t feel we had the money to renew, plus we knew there would need to be more renewals in the future. At that time the rumor was you would only be allowed to renew once anyway. After talking to our agency and social worker, they actually encouraged us to let it expire and they would help us w/ the Hague stuff when we get closer to referral. We’ve already done our Hague training, which was no big deal – actually very interesting. We would be on our 3rd 171 right now and no reason to think we wouldn’t need a 4th. I may regret it later, but over the last couple of years, I’ve been happy not to worry about doing all the updated homestudies, fingerprints, much less the extra money. I don’t want to have to wait an extra month to travel when the time comes, but considering the reduction of stress of keeping the 171 active over 4+ years of waiting, much less financially renewing 3 times, I’m comfortable at this point with the decision we made to let ours expire. Again, I may regret it later but no going back now.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Those in the SN process who are I800 cases, do have that extra time. From the LOA (which is the same as what the NSN gets for referral) until TA is taking 6-8 weeks (and that’s considered fast).
From what I understand, and I’ve not gone through it yet, once you get LOA, you have to send the LOA with the I800 paperwork to the USCIS office. In that you probably have to reference your I800a paperwork approval (the I797c). Once they approve that, then send something to the NVC? Who then sends a cable to Guangzhou, who then sends notification to CCAA that you have everything ready for the Visa in Guangzhou…and then China does their steps to issue TA. It’s time consuming because so many people are involved. The good news is, regardless of whether or not both parents travel, the child is a US citizen immediately. In the paperchasing forum there is a better explanation of all the steps.
Honestly, while it’s not terrible…I’d weigh the extra time until you could travel. Instead of a NSN group traveling 1-2 months after LOA, you’d be traveling around 3-4 months after LOA.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Don’t follow much here anymore. Preoccupied lately & with an LID of 07/20/07; NSN….well, we are a LONG ways off yet & speed up or not we know years more of waiting to be our reality. However, due to the fact that we did just what this post is discussing & I just happened to check in here today, I thought I would chime in. We let our I-171H expire & are now a Hague case. We didn’t have a choice. We moved just a few weeks before our I-171H was set to expire. We moved to a whole new state. We were told that we couldn’t begin the update process in our new state until we were residents of that state. There was no agency who could get the update & the renewal done for us before it would have expired. So, it was a catch 22 for us. Not to mention that the state in which we moved to runs an average of $1500.00 & up (way up) for an update & that’s just the agency part. So, knowing the wait ahead of us, irregardless of what it might mean later was truly our only option. Also worth noting, our new state requires TWO home studies. One International & one Domestic. You can’t do two in one. I don’t know about the rest of you, but our previous home study in our old state allowed us to do two in one, but not here…talk about added expense! So, for us we are just sitting tight in the China line with an expired International home study & an expired I-171H. Our Dossier is in place according to our LID with the CCAA. We will leave it & once we see that we are closer to our turn, at about the year mark, we will update & renew everything. Right or wrong? Good idea or bad? We have no idea! All we can say is that it was our only choice & is what was right for us. Our agency doesn’t offer a SN program.
We just updated our domestic home study in our new state, but only out of necessity. We have a sweet baby girl on the way via a domestic adoption at the end of November!! We are very excited & hoping for a good outcome!
October 28th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
May 06 LID here- we let our paperwork expire in September. I was advised by so many NOT TO DO IT- but at the time we were soul searching and needed to make sure that almost 4 years later we were in the right place to continue. I think about 2-3 weeks after expiration- I FELT with all my heart that we were meant to adopt and We should stay in the program. Do I wish we did not let it all expire- you bet- but at the same time- it brought me to a point where we really had to commit and I know that having to do the I800A is going to be hard- but I also know it will be worth it and it means something to us now- as opposed to before when we just re filed because we had to. And crazy enough- I am actually enjoying the process as it is bringing back memories of the original paperchase. It is so refreshing to be doing something really active and feeling a part of the process again.
Although My agency said it was fine to let the 171H expire and that they would contact us 6-9 months before we should start up again, we decided to start up to get all the ducks in a row so we are ready to go. Well we are at the end of May- but still have not heard anything from the agency- so I am pretty sure they are expecting us to be hanging on for atleast another year or so. I just hope they get through all of May 06 by the end of 2010. It has been such a long, long road…
October 28th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
We are in the SN waiting line and we are an I-600 family. Our LOA was signed on 9/14/09 and no TA yet. If I take out the week for the October holiday, we have waited 36 days so far. I’d be happy to be traveling 2 months after LOA, but I just don’t see it happening.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
We are an NSN family intending to stay NSN for the duration. We have a March 07 LID. We let ours expire and I don’t regret it. One is that we didn’t have the money at the time, two is that I believe by the time we get our referral they will have worked out the kinks in the I-800A process, and three, I don’t believe that USCIS is going to keep grandfathering in I-600A’s indefinitely. USCIS gave the one-time free extension and then an additional extension to be grandfathered in, but any I-600A after that filed after April 1, 2008 will not be grandfathered in. I don’t believe they will change this. Under this current rule, our I-600A’s will all be expired by January 2013, after which point we would have to switch to the I-800A anyway. I do not believe we will get our referral, travel, and be home before January 2013, and I do not think that USCIS will change their policy and grandfather in anything that would last past 2013.
The text of the example given from the USCIS site:
EXAMPLE: Form I-600A was approved, with the approval expiring on August 1, 2008. The applicant requested and obtained a one-time extension, with the new approval period expiring February 1, 2010. In January 2010, they still have not filed a Form I-600. On February 1, 2010, they file a new Form I-600A. The “grandfathering” of the original Form I-600A will be extended to include the new Form I-600A, since it was filed before the approval of the original Form I-600A expired. The new Form I-600A is approved, with the approval (after one extension) expiring March 10, 2013. On March 10, 2013, the applicant files yet another Form I-600A. This third Form I-600A is not grandfathered, since, although the expiring Form I-600A was grandfathered because the first Form I-600A was grandfathered, the expiring Form I-600A was actually filed after April 1, 2008.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:30 am
file the i 600, and drag out the process as long as you can to buy time.
we filed for free i 600 renewal just a month before our i171h expired – and made sure we dragged the process out for the entire year they give you to complete everything. (thus, we got a “free” year)
our new i171h expires in april. so in a few months, we’ll refile our i600 renewal, do the bloody paperwork again, pay the fees, and again drag it out as long as possible. that will take us through year 5 of a wait – we’re sure that will more than cover us.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:11 am
tearoses1 – if your office did it that way then you got lucky. They are supposed to make the new expiration date 18 months after the last expiration date. Whether you fill it out six months early or right on time, doesn’t matter.
Also, the last I heard you must have everything in to them before the expiration date or you don’t qualify to be grandfathered.
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In the end, I think the decision to keep renewing or to wait and start over again later is a gamble. If the homestudy update costs aren’t astronomical for you then it’s probably a better bet to keep renewing. If the homestudy costs are astronomical then… I don’t know. Tough decision.
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As for those changing agencies because your agency isn’t Hague approved, if I wasn’t already with a new agency at this point I would be in panic mode. Seriously, get busy. Don’t depend on your old agency to do it if they haven’t already. Get on the phone and find an agency willing to take you on, and willing to fight for you to keep your LID. Make sure other people are happy with this agency, and that they have a history of keeping their promises.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Tearoses1 – It didn’t work that way for me. My I600 renewal didn’t get completed until almost 8 months after expiration, and my new expiration is 18 months after the old expiration. I didn’t get those 8 months added to it, unfortunately. You are very lucky. Just to clarify, I got my application in before it expired. But the homestudy didn’t arrive until about a month after expiration. And USCIS took a few months to even get me a fingerprint appointment. Then fingerprints had to be redone because of problems. So that’s why it took 8 months.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:12 am
With no clear evidence of a drastic speed up, we let our paperwork expire(1-17-07 LID). I agree with everyone in that I don’t believe we would get a referral before 2013. We would have to switch to I800 anyway at that point. I also believe this “grandfathering ” of the I600 will be changed. Why else does everyone have to switch to a Hague only agency. I can see that by 2011. Our agency has to switch everyone by Nov. 30th. Stil NO IDEA on cost. Noone will tell me?!
November 1st, 2009 at 1:29 am
If you think you may be moving to another state, or are a military family and think there is even the slightest chance you may be posted overseas, do NOT let your I-171H expire. We are overseas and paperchasing under Hague, and it’s VERY difficult. The requirements for social workers to be eligible to provide services under Hague are very stringent, and many social workers who easily qualified before aren’t even close under Hague. Our first adoption was pre-Hague, and our current experience overseas with Hague has been VERY difficult. We also moved and did an update in a new state during our first adoption process, and I can see that being problematic under Hague as well.