Quiet, and a discussion about making waves
The only rumor I see out there is the one agency saying that the CCAA is preparing to match.
I went through three scenarios on my When post. The third scenario is now pretty much trashed at this point, which means there is a good possibility the CCAA is stretching things out until they figure out what is going on with H1N1.
There is something I’d like to talk about, even though it’s not going to be a popular subject. But, it keeps coming up in private correspondence, so it’s probably something we should talk about as a community.
About once every three or four weeks I get a long, often well though out, email outlining how waiting parents should band together and make demands. Most understand that we can’t demand babies be made available, so their plan is to demand answers about timeframes. But some have hopes of proving there are babies available, and their plan is to shame China into releasing those babies for adoption. They figure media attention on a few full orphanages will do the trick.
I can’t stress enough how bad of an idea that is. Both plans – both the one demanding babies be made paper ready, and the one demanding answers. The CCAA does not respond well to pressure.
The Chinese government does not work like the American government. You can’t use pressure to demand (or even ask for) action, answers, transparency, or pretty much anything else.
And the CCAA does tend to be punitive about these things. Agencies who make too many waves end up with all kinds of roadblocks, and when their families have issues they need help with, the agency sometimes isn’t able to get that help from the CCAA. I am aware of two agencies who have been completely locked out of the SN program because they asked too many questions about something (in retrospect, one of those cases the CCAA was right and the agency was wrong, but the CCAA did not make any explanations at the time to show that – they are not in the habit of explaining themselves). Do I think the CCAA would be punitive against a particular family if that family was the leader of a group demanding (or even asking nicely) for answers? I think the possibility is certainly there. And I think that if that family had problems once they were in China, that the CCAA would not go out of their way to help that family out, as they have done for other families with problems in China.
The last time agencies banded together to try to get some answers, the CCAA published a paper that basically said it’s going to be a long wait and there are no answers and if you can’t handle that then you should get out of line. I do not think they are likely to give a better answer than that.
Also, if memory serves me correctly, I believe the JCICS put together some sort of “Letter of Concern” back in the spring. The CCAA is well aware that families around the world want answers. And they have stated, on numerous occasions, that there are no answers.
The point I really want to make is that parents banding together and making demands is only going to anger the CCAA. And if the media got involved it could endanger the program.
I completely understand the need to do something. Really, I do. And we Americans are kind of known for just jumping in and shining a light on things that we feel need to be made more transparent. But please believe me when I say that the cultural differences at play here would make that plan of action disastrous.
If the CCAA is put in the position of being coerced into providing answers, then they will make sure we don’t like the answers. Yes, things can get worse than they are now.
One question that keeps coming up right now has to do with what changed from the springtime rumors of a speed up, so that the speed up didn’t happen. The CCAA told too many agencies, and many of those agencies were convinced (by the CCAA) that it was going to happen. Some people had one-on-one conversations with the person at their agency who had a one-on-one conversation with someone at the CCAA about it. They are convinced that the CCAA truly believed they were going to be allowed to speed things up in the fall, and they are trying to understand what went wrong. The general consensus seems to be that the CCAA is slowing things down right now until they see what is happening with H1N1. Whether that is the case, or not, we’ll just have to wait and see.
I wish there were a better answer. I wish families could be given an idea of what is going to happen. I understand the need to know at least a general time frame. I know what it’s like to not take a vacation at work for three years in a row because you might travel that year. I know what it’s like for your work to need to know a timeframe, and to not understand why you can’t give them one. But I also understand that if a bunch of parents band together and make waves, they are not going to get the result that they are hoping for.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Thanks so much, RQ, for this most meaningful post!!
In fact, we truly have no right at all to claim anything from CCAA. Just have to wait (im)patiently our turn (if it ever comes). As hard it is to face, all PAP have to understand this.
Regards
November 6th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Glad to see this out there again RQ.
The cultural differences are so large in this respect and it is easy to lose sight of that when you are frustrated and angry. While banding together and making some sort of statement or demand might make PAPs feel better in the short term–it will not help and may hinder.
I know in my mind it is easy to think I understand some of the differences but being able to actually own that is not as easy. I have to think it is the same for most of us westerners.
My heart is with you all out there.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:52 am
DH and I were logged in 2-12-07. We really began to realize around May of ’07 that a serious slow down was happening and we have long since felt that the China program was converting to a primarily SN’s program. I still feel that is true.
We went so far as to submit the paperwork to our agency to pull our dossier and had begun the switch to Ethiopia. But after much consideration we felt our daughter would come from one of the waiting child lists…and she has.
Families starting a dossier in ’07 or after either did not have all of the facts or did not look for them. That is not a criticism of those folks but as a person who researches to the point of obsession, we quickly knew what we were looking at.
I would also caution families to not attempt to throw weight around, especially the weight of being “American.” China holds much of our financial debt and we as Americans are in no position to make demands of them. And, they are aware of that. Coupled with how upset they would be if an international scandal occurred around the program, I firmly believe the program would be closed to America.
Let’s not forget about Vietnam. The US government made accusations regarding that program and it was closed to American families. If families have hopes of having a child at the end of their own process, they will merely wait it out.
We have friends that turned in their dossier this summer (I cannot fathom why) for a NSN adoption. They are hoping for 2015 for told me they believe it will be much sooner. They think because they asked for 12 months to age 4 they’ll somehow get bumped up. They are with a reputable agency and have convinced themselves of this – this did not come from the agency. They did no research outside of the materials given by the agency, they do not visit RQ, they ask my opinion and then do not believe me when I tell them it’s going to be a LONG wait.
Well, our wait is almost over. After being logged in for nearly 3 years, having to wait out our agency’s Hague denial and then wait while they got accepted again into the WC program, we have a little one. We leave in less than two weeks to complete our family. I know they wait will have been worth it.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:54 am
RQ – thank you so much for addressing this. You are completely and totally 100% right. There is nothing we can do and nothing we should do. Any action will surely result in things getting worse.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:08 am
RQ said: The CCAA does not respond well to pressure.
Nor does China respond well to embarrassment or shame. Especially with it blasted internationally. Who here hears negative news coming directly from China very often. Anyone ever watch CCTV? It’s a Chinese broadcast of the news around China and around the world (in English). You don’t ever see reports on that station about China’s mishaps or bad press.
This would be a blunderous move on the part of PAPs, and would only add to the wait, or close IA thru China completely.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Thank you RQ for addressing this in a thoughtful way. I also would like to add that when I speak with people about this long wait I am always very respectful of how I speak about China and this process. I not only want others to hear me speak of my childrens birth country with respect, but most importantly I always want my children to hear this from me as well.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:38 am
I agree. Whatever the reason for the slowdown/lack of speed up, it is what it is. We all had to learn about China to pursue our respective adoptions, now we need to process what that means and accept the culture that does not like saying a direct no or giving bad news. For some of us that may mean never being referred (we are LID 3/07). Much as I would love an official CCAA view on our likelihood/potential referral date I would never demand it. I can only pray for one in a time frame that is possible for our family situation.
On swine flu as a possible reason for a delay – I have being saying for awhile now to friends also in the queue that March 06 will not be finished until the end of Dec this year. My gut feeling only but time will tell.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:54 am
I agree w/ you, RQ! We (the USA) need to remember that we are a democracy within a republic & China is not; we are fortunate to be able to “stamp our feet”, vote, or whatever to get changes made, but that is just not the way China’s goverment works. Yes, I agree, it would more than likely just anger them & “backfire” on us.
Thank you, RQ, for bringing it up.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:00 am
I think referrals will come out about a month after we saw the last ones (give or take a few days). I think if H1N1 were playing a part in slowing down anything, it would be TAs and they just started arriving this week which was pretty fast.
chinapromise
3/29/06
November 6th, 2009 at 11:06 am
This has probably been brought up in a thread a long time ago, but anyone who wants to better understand China, its culture and a little more on its government would be served well by reading/researching.
There is a very good book by NPR correspondent, Rob Gifford, called China Road. It is very eye opening to the differences in culture and especially government.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Very well said sebago girl :)
November 6th, 2009 at 11:17 am
My spouse recently returned from China where he toured several social welfare facilities with a group of physicians from around the world. He deals with a great number of Internationally adopted in his practice who have specials needs and this was a medical research tour. The group visited eight facilities and he was astonished to find only a few NSN infants in care of the welfare system. In speaking to the staff members, although he was careful not to ask to many questions, he gathered that less and less healthy children were coming into the welfare system, and most of those brought it were adopted quickly by local families.
I honestly feel the CCAA is doing everything in their power to place children with waiting families and they could possibly be feeling as frustrated by the slow pace as the waiting families. Demands could backfire if this is the case.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:31 am
As someone who had a small hope (very small) that a speed up would occur after the Olympics, I think to believe a speed up will occur once H1N1 slows down is somewhat unrealistic.
For me, to see more SN children placed is a phenomenal outcome of this entire thing.
To see that China may be making small shifts to value girls in a different way is worth the slow down.
To see that poverty may not be as prevalent and that more people can possibly afford to have more than one child is a positive.
There are negatives as well with possible rise in gender selection and abortion, but overall, to see fewer children abandoned as a result of socio-economic shifts is a plus.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Why not band and make a “Love” wave. I mean, we could thank the CCAA for what they do for us and the babies who will (and did) find families. Would this be seen as ironic and bad?
November 6th, 2009 at 11:41 am
i think there are so many enviromental issues in china that more and more SN children are being born.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:42 am
RQ, you are right. There is a time to stand up and demand that action be taken and there is a time to wait quietly. The time now is to wait. In our almost 3 year wait, we’ve completed 1 adoption from Guatemala (our son) and are now about to adopt a baby domestically (she’ due any day now!). This brings us to 4 children. After this, we’ll have to decide if the wait is gong outlast us or not! We’re 38 right now. Thanks for all you do.
LID 12/4/06
November 6th, 2009 at 11:47 am
We cannot change China, but we can change the US. Have you written your Representative about the pending legislation H.R. 213, the Adoption Tax Relief Guarantee Act of 2009? We really need to mobilize as a group to do letter writing campaigns and whatever it takes to get the legislation passed.
Can we put our heads together and think about what can be done to make adoption agencies more cooperative with each other? We’ve been told we can’t be accepted by other international agencies because we’re logged into China. And I can’t imagine what the people with non-Hague agencies are going through to get their papers accepted by another agency. If Hague is a mandate, shouldn’t the government require cooperation between agencies?
November 6th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Oh, and also can’t we get longer extensions for the immigration papers, since every contry’s adoptions seem to be slowing way down now?
November 6th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I agree, it is what it is and there is nothing you can do about it. I also want to add, we have family in China and they visit SWI’s around China. They claim that one of the problems CCAA is having is the lack of children available in most of their SWI’s. They rely on certain provinces for available babies/children. Not all provinces that once were involved with IA have any healthy babies available. It is a very complex situation, and there are more people in China now that are speaking out against IA as they do not see a need for it. This is their experiences.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
If the CCAA wanted to hear from PAPs they would not require that all correspondence come through an accredited agency. Please, don’t put pending adoptions at risk by going against the grain.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
I normally don’t speak on the forum. But this worries me. Did you Americans ever bother to check out how adoption procedures are being in other countries? You should be glad that you can adopt in several countries at the same time! DH and I started our procedure in July 2005, and still don’t have a child. Our gouvernment forbids us to apply to several countries at the same time. So please, people, don’t make the Chinese angry and don’t mess up things for people who have less choices then you do …
November 6th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
I can completely understand why a group of PAPs would consider joining together to try resolve the issues surrounding the China NSN program, especially the unqualified wait time. Our family has over $6000 on deposit for over four years with our agency for program fees for a China NSN adoption. My husband and I question each day about the final prospects of ever bringing a NSN child home. (And please, please, please don’t tell me to switch to SN. You don’t know me and you don’t know my agency and thank you very much I’m not switching to your agency.) Would I join this group of families trying to get an answer from the CCAA? NO! The cultural and governmental differences between the US and China are tremendous. Any group effort of ganging up on the CCAA would only result in disaster to the group effort or even worse the entire waiting community. Please think long and hard about the ramifications of challenging the CCAA. Your intents may just close the program thereby depriving orphans the opportunity of ever finding a family. After all, this really is about the children.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
What about using reverse psychology and predict that china will speed things up, to not have babies waiting in orphanages. I think that they do a excellent job at what they do, that is why so many families are waiting. Start positive rumors and happy rumors. Just a thought.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
When dealing with anyone on anything in China and ESPECIALLY when dealing with people in power in China…it’s all about two things: respect and relationships.
Something every person here should know about is how important is it to “save face” in China. It’s called “Ke Qi ??” and it means an act of courtesy.
This idea of “Ke Qi ??” permeates every interaction in Chinese culture. On a small scale, when people go out to a meal together, there is usually a small “fight” over who gets to pay for the meal. Usually one person will say, “it’s my treat” and the other one will say “No, it is me that should be treating you”. This exchange happens 3 times and then the second man relents with an agreement to pay for the next meal.
If “Ke Qi ??” is acted out this way on small exchanges over who should pay for a meal…how much more would it play out in how the government is dealt with?
Families choosing to rise up and make demands would be a HORRIBLE decision.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
RQ,
Thank you for addressing this here. I too feel it would be a great mistake for families to take a stand. It is an entirely different culture. To make a grand stand of disagreement would show that we don’t respect the government, it would show that we disbelieve what they are telling us. And from China’s point, why would they want to continue dealing w/ a group of people who dishonor and do not respect them.
I liken the adoption process w/ China to living at home w/ your parents. It is their house, their rules. If you tell your parents you don’t like their rules they tell you, “get out.”
If we push the issues w/ China I do feel they will tell us the same thing.
I have seen how my agency whose founders were from China deal very delicately w/ issues when they come up. It tells greatly the need for such care in how we deal. For if an agency that knows the ropes in China still walks as if on eggshells that definitely does not bode well for a mass push of an issue by a group of PAP’s
I hope the families instead opt to stay the course or search for other options for their families and not put the whole program at risk for those that are willing to wait.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Wow RQ! This is the most gentle, diplomatic post I have seen you write about a very controversial subject. Raising hell with the CCAA is just crazy talk. Are you going soft on us by sugar coating that?
China holds all the cards on this issue. Anger, frustration, news media, etc. should be directed at agencies. These feelings are very justified but should be directed to a good place that won’t close the program down entirely.
November 6th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I couldn’t agree more with everything that’s been said. Those of us who went through the Vietnam closure learned the same lesson.
And to be honest, sometimes banding together and demanding things doesn’t work in America either!
November 6th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I posted this today because I have people regularly contact me, either wanting me to organize an effort, or telling me they are planning to, or asking if I can help them out by pointing to their blog where they will organize it, or… you get the idea. A lot of people are considering this, and it seems that instead of having the same conversation individually over and over again, it made more sense for us to talk about it as a community. This wasn’t posted because one person thought of it. Multiple people have considered it.
The wait is hard. There is no way around that. And it isn’t something we can control.
And I do try to be nice when I point things out. I’m not going soft, but it seems a better idea to gently explain why it’s a bad idea than to be harsh about it. People are hurting, they are reaching out and trying to come up with ways to deal with the situation, and I’m not going to cause them more pain by being harsh.
Oh, and one more kind of side point – I’ve heard from a few people who aren’t Americans, so we don’t have a total monopoly on this sort of thing.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
You are absolutely right, RQ. If we attempt to back them into a corner, they will likely come back with a “result” the exact opposite of what we want. Being patient is going to bring the “best” result. I completely understand the unknown. We were LID 12/05…the beginning of the this “wait forever” nightmare. Just hold on…
I must point out something a friend of mine (fellow adoptive China mom) has learned from living in China for almost 4 years now. She has helped with a small local orphanage who has just begun to place children for SN adoption. She has learned that in their culture they will tell her whatever she wants to hear…even if it is an outright lie. She has completely taken back by this, but has learned that the more you push, the less likely the information you will be given will truthful or helpful. It’s hard for those whose of us who’s countries have more of a open communication style to understand.
I hope your warning will keep the “movement” at bay! It will be harmful for everyone!!
November 6th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I dont’t know where to post this, but it is somehow related. Some friends of mine were very poorly treated by the orphanage and by CCAA while in China 6 months ago, but they finally mangaged to come home with the child. What they went through, had been so traumatic that the mom went into a post-adoption depression, and the subsequent bonding process became very difficult.
The family is now about to write the 6-months follow-up about the child, to CCAA. They have a dilemma: Shall they be honest about how they were treated, and the feelings this created, and how it affected the bonding process with the child? Or shall they lie about this, so as not to upset CCAA? Or should they do what the husband suggests, and just not send any update at all?
Both in the case of not sending a report, and sending a report that critizice CCAA, they fear it may get consequences for their agency.
What should I advice them to do? I must add, things seem to go in the right direction with them now.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Is there a new rule that says you can transfer to another agency for SN?
We have to change anyway because we are with a non hague agency but I am confused as to what we should know about SN first.
We are LID 06/02/06 and want to switch but are afraid as we don’t seem to have any real answers
November 6th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
I think it is important to inform waiting parents of the culture, customs, and political implications of adoption from a foreign country. We knew going in that we could not make waves, though we were blind sighted by the possible wait. That blame lies in the American Agencies, not the China government. It would be a very bad idea, to try to coerce them in anyway for answers. We may not like what we are hearing, but we can’t jump in and hurt the relationships our agencies have formed.It could be the end to the China program IMO.
We waited 36 long hard months for our referral( LID 2-2006). All the while being told, it should be another 6-9 months more. I think most logged in after 2007 would have known the wait would be unpredictable. And those signing up now, would know for sure. I think it’s a bad idea to try to demand anything from CCAA.
November 6th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
The CCAA has given us an answer. Their answer is that they are not going to give us any concrete information about anything. Just because we don’t like the answer, that doesn’t mean that they haven’t answered the question, or if we demand it they are going to give us a different answer.
Guangdong, I would ask your friends what their motivation is behind what they plan to do. What do they hope to accomplish? I think not sending a post-placement report is one of the most selfish things an adoptive parent can do. The ONLY effect it has is a negative one for both the agency and the waiting parents behind them. Entire countries have closed their programs because people didn’t submit required post-placement–out of what, spite? Anger? What purpose does that serve? And as far as explaining that the way they were treated led to post-adoption depression and affected bonding, again, what purpose would that serve? I don’t know because I haven’t BTDT, but I wouldn’t think that the CCAA or the orphanage is going to change any practices based on one negative post-placement report. I do think it could have a negative impact on the agency–after all, it’s the agency’s responsibility to provide enough support to the parents to get them through adversity. I think I would just suggest that they write what China wants to hear and then personally work on putting that awful experience behind them and moving on.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Personally, I would be tactfully honest in the post placement report.
If the agency dropped the ball then that’s their problem if it reflects poorly on them. If the agency didn’t drop the ball then the family should be clear that their agency provided support, and also be clear about exactly who did not provide support, and how that affected them.
That’s part of what the post placement reports are for, so the CCAA can see what is working, and what is not working.
November 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Thank you very much RQ for this post! Very well written and clear!
As earthmama said “to see more SN children placed is a phenomenal outcome of this entire thing” about the wait. As of the H1N1, this would not play hard in my point of view.
When I hear sometimes our prime minister talking about China Gouvernment, I am afraid it could turn against us, waiting parents just as it happened for Vietnam in USA. Everyone must be careful in the actions they are making and as many said, doing nothing is still the best thing to do even though this wait is hard like hell.
November 6th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I am not all that upset with the CCAA, I am upset with agencies. There are still many families being mislead by agencies and signing up for NSN adoption. Many of these families are being lead to believe there is a speed up coming, so the wait is just under 4 years now but……..it could speed up at any time. This is what I feel needs to stop. I think about all the families that signed in 2008, the slow down was in full swing and yet many agencies were not honest with new families. They continued to take non-refundable payments from families and then let them find out the reality of NSN adoption. I really feel this is criminal.
This is what people need to ban together to stop, but we are a few years late! I would hope to think any family signing up now for NSN is fully informed about the wait. Although in reality how can you really prepare for a 7 year wait? I don’t think you can.
November 6th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
I know of several people who are not doing a post placement because their agency closed and have no intention of doing one.
However, the majority of people are doing post placements. I think it is very important to do them because it affects those that are waiting.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:34 am
Thank you!
I thought the same thing when I have seen people wanting to organize. China is not the United States.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:43 am
i was one of those people horrified when FCC sent its letter protesting the slowdown to the ccaa a year or two ago. honestly, what good did fcc think was going to come from that? “you should be more like us,” is the message it sent. brrrrr.
it’s quite edifying to see that so many folks here have done their homework on the very different tenor of chinese culture. they get it. that’s great.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:36 am
LuiseMe. I agree not sending a post placement report is harmful. However, we recently did our 6 month PP and it was a very structured format to be completed by our SW. I did not see an area to complain about CCAA or my agency. We had the opportunity with our self written 2 month PP(which did not go to china) but not the 6 month one.
If they are having bonding/attachment issues it may be something their SW can help with. And even then she may sugar coat it for the report.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Thanks for posting this. I totally agree that trying to put any kind of pressure would be a huge mistake and would only make things worse. I truly believe that adoption is a privilege and we must not think that this something that CCAA and China owes us for some reason. Having already waited 3 years now with at least another 18 month wait, I can certainly understand the impatience though.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Tricky situation indeed…
I would like to stress on something though.
Within China Adoption Program, there are two very different things, I think, PAPs are worried about:
1 – Traffics
Which is legitimate – westerners can not go on supporting a system where corruption is widely spread – like in every other IA country, I suppose. Acting against it is so touchy and so difficult…
2 – Wait times
We can not claim for anything on this one. In fact, CCAA has no possibility to make children paper ready – there are so few NSN children available in SWI nowadays, that they do what they can with ”what they have”. PAP have no legitimacy to demand anything from them on this specific point. Beyong that, asking for more NSN child to be proposed to IA program will probably leads to more traffic. More demand = more offer (more money to make).
To summarize : in my opinion, there are 2 different levels of worries :
- first point, which is really serious since it’s backed up on human being rights.
- as to the other point, it has more to do with our impatience, our selfishness (ie : PAP are fed up with waiting, which I do understand, as being part of them, even though I wouldn’t prompt CCAA for explanation on wait times, EVER).
November 7th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Of course we must expect transparency and information when it comes to how our children ended up in an orphanage. That’s a completely different subject, and not part of what I’m talking about at all.
My country’s state department keeps on eye on that, plus China does not want to be embarrassed on the world stage by not being able to keep their own house in order. Sure, there are isolated issues, as there are in any large country. As China discovers them they handle them, and then try to take steps to keep that particular situation from arising again.
We as AP’s don’t have to band together to demand those answers, our countries do it for us.
But that’s not what I’m talking about here. What I’m talking about here has to do with parents demanding either 1) more babies be made paper ready or 2) the time frame that the CCAA plans to operate under. Demanding either of those things could be disastrous.
November 7th, 2009 at 11:43 am
I cringe when I think of what the CCAA would do if anyone tried to throw a “temper tantrum” over the referral timelines.
Parenting a child from China is a gift, it is not something that anyone is entitled to just because they have filed out the necessary paperwork.
No one has a “right” to these children, nor should they expect the CCAA to care if any PAP thinks they have “waited long enough”.
We should all be thankful that the Chinese are allowing us to give these children homes -at all.
I know I am.
Andrea
mother to 4 born in the US
& 3 born in China
November 7th, 2009 at 11:48 am
IMO frustration is misplaced.
It was the AGENCIES claiming/advertising such a fantastic relationship with China.
They could have said what was transparent to them:
timelines are multiplying exponentially, we have a one sided relationship with China and never get truths out of them, you’ll just be stuck in limbo for a long long time
but I suppose not too many would have signed up.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
The thing that bothers me about this is – everyone wants a speed up – but what that means is we want more abandoned babies. Somehow that seems wrong. I think the agencies are at fault for continuing to sign up families when there were already too many in line. I guess the almighty dollar speaks.
I wish IA worked the other way around – finding families for children who are waiting and need homes. Rather than families waiting for children to become orphans…
November 7th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I have a confession to make…I have been a waiting parent two times for the China program. We came home with our second daughter in July, 2008. My memory of the pain and frustration of the horrible wait, the tears, the pressure on my marriage and the way our first daughter nagged and begged to go already….all has faded. The fact that RQ so clearly remembers is a testament to her as an individual. Her post shows great sensitivity to the issues despite the fact that she (like me) has been done with the process for quite some time. What a gift to this forum!
I am in total agreement that people should band together and “out” agencies making false claims about the wait. I don’t think we as Americans would respond well if China or Russia tried to tell us how we should handle America’s welfare system. Our agency was pretty bad… they got out of the business of international adoptions soon after we got home. I continue to do post placement reports because it helps document the development of our kids and family. If constructive action is to be taken to help families I think the pivotal points should be our own governments and agencies.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I think this quote from our daughter’s preschool totally applies to dealing with the CCAA. “You get what you get and you don’t get upset.”
In applying to the China program we as parents are ASKING to be allowed to adopt a child. WE do not have a right to anyting. I think this process gives American parents in particular a taste of what it is like to live somewhere where you as an individual do not matter. Where you do not have very many rights and your vioce is of no concern to the authorities.
I agree that when dealing with China people need to do their research and reading. We are dealing with a different political system, different family systems and very different cultural systems.
Certainly this is not what anyone waiting wants to hear but sometimes the truth is difficult to take. It still makes it the truth though.
November 7th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I read this post and had to chuckle. If protesting against the CCAA and making noise would improve the wait I would be first in line. However we are dealing with a superpower playing by their own rules and if we don’t like the rules we have a choice to get out. We have been LID since 02-11-2007 and have made the choice to stay with the program knowing the timelines etc.
I would suggest a more Canadian approach, grin and bare the wait or leave without a fuss. It works for us :)
Maureen
November 7th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
I completely agree with this post. I also think that, as a waiting AP, my ‘issue’ isn’t with China, or the CCAA, but with the American agencies, specifically the two that I have dealt with, and who flat out lied to clients, including me, during the time I was amassing my dossier. Like other commenters here, I support China’s rights to run their program, but I think our real problem is that the American agencies blithely made assumptions about how they can treat us, based on the fact that they used to only have clients for 9-14 months, and honestly, even if you hated your agency, you only had to deal with them (and them with you!) for a year.
Now we are all locked in with agencies that were not truthful to us in the process. Part of the frustration from parents wanting to storm the CCAA is that if you read what their agencies promised them, we were promised a child – my contract states ‘things happen’ but every other bit of non-legal info my agency puts out there states that all waiting parents get children. And so to CYA, agencies point the finger at CCAA – it takes the heat from their clients off of them. If parents do band together and do this (which I hope they do NOT), I would blame the agencies for that action as well. Agencies have been firmly placing a lot of blame with the CCAA instead of taking responsibility for their part in the information miasma we all got caught in.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I am w/ AZAWA. We as Americans have come to expect or should I say FEEL as it is our RIGHT to adopt. We sometimes forget that we are simply being allowed the wonderful oppurtunity, & graceously(sp),being PERMITTED to adopt these little angels. I DO feel that the C*A* should or could have stepped in a long time ago and slowed all the doosiers being submitted, so as to not bring about the huge log jam. BUT I also am of the understanding that the C*A* told the agencies to police themselves. SO I mainly blame the agencies. They knew that too many dossiers were being submitted but I feel they were more $$$$ inclined. NOW they are crying the blues about how they had NO idea it would get this bad. The math was real simple China only allowed X# of children to be adopted each year and that # stayed fairly consistant each and every year. The agencies knew that in the proir years they had submitted X# of dossiers. ALL of a sudden they were submitting 2X the dossiers that they had submitted in the years prior and took NO course of action to say whoa we need to slow down here. I believe, (correct me if I’m wrong RQ), that in the years just prior to the massive dossiers submissions that China had implemented an qouta type system, and each agency was only allowed to submit based what they had submitted in the year(s) prior. When China decided to stop the monitoring and told the agencies to handle it themselves is when they, (The agencies), went into overdrive and saw the $$$$ in their eyes and chose to throw everything out the window. IF we as PAP’s and AP’s start throwing a Temper Tantrum I for one believe that the C*A* and China as a Gov’t could simply tell US and the rest of the world “… for these reasons we have closed our international adoption program and will not permit outsiders to have the oppurtunity to adopt our beautiful children effective immediately.” I’m with RQ – It really sucks but if my wife and I are to ever have a child, we need to be thankful for the oppurtunity China has given us. NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES. We have too much time and money invested in this to simply walk away or move to a different program. Thanks for your ear.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
RQ….I totally agree with you! As much as we’ve been frustrated (LID 4-3-06), waiting 4 years…..I still would never want to do ANYTHING to upset the CCAA……….we just want our DAUGHTER!
Thanks for ALL you do and ALL your posts. I read your site EVERY single day! Gives us hope!
November 7th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
I think RQ is right. We are LID 9/12/09 and have accepted a referral of a baby boy that is CL/CP. We already have two daughters and really wanted a boy anyway. I know most people here applied to China because they want a girl, but if you are open to a boy like us then there are many boys with very minor needs or even healthy if you are willing to adopt a child that is 5 yrs or older.
Our agencies SN list is huge right now. I really feel that China is focusing more on SN right now.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:01 am
As much as we hate having to be quiet and endure this wait. It is what we must do in order to get OUR children and if anyone out there jeopardizes this after we’ve been waiting this long………..well, that would be MEAN! So just be quiet people and leave CCAA alone. I’ve had my moments when I wanted to just call them up and give them a piece of mind too because of the frustration of the wait, but that would be plain out STUPID because they could get ticked off and just shut it all down….then where would we be. So, do your ranting and raving and screaming and fussing privately but do NOT mess this up. Those of us who have been waiting for 4 years (LID 04/05/06) do not need some hot-heads flying off the handle and causing the program to be shut down permanantly. We’ve come this far, and yes it is HARD…….VERY HARD…….but it’s all we have at this point.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:28 am
Hola everybody,
Thanks for this post. I think, all project should have an end, a planning. As in other countries where we can adopt, to know when, more or less we are going to got our referral, if we not know when we will finish our project it becomes an adventure.