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	<title>Comments on: The NSN Misnomer</title>
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	<description>Join the Rumor Queen as she looks for the latest rumors and then analyzes them, trying to figure out what the CCAA will do next.</description>
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		<title>By: JustWait</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68810</link>
		<dc:creator>JustWait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68810</guid>
		<description>I uses &quot;NSN&quot; because it&#039;s the least bad expression we hhvae.  Someone suggested &quot;Regular Program&quot; or something like that, but no other expression works as well.  Plus, the acronym helps to split the term we use from its literal meaning.

All kids, adopted or not, have &quot;special needs.&quot; We know that.  In the China program, kids in the WC program have specified and identified kinds of special needs, but I don&#039;t think many in the NSN line really think our kids will not have &quot;special needs.&quot;

All that said, the reminder is a good one, especially since so many of went through the social work interview process so many years ago.  Our training on attachment disorder will be four or five years in our past by the time we actually travel to China.  How many people really remember the details of stuff they read five years ago when they don&#039;t have to use it in daily life?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I uses &#8220;NSN&#8221; because it&#8217;s the least bad expression we hhvae.  Someone suggested &#8220;Regular Program&#8221; or something like that, but no other expression works as well.  Plus, the acronym helps to split the term we use from its literal meaning.</p>
<p>All kids, adopted or not, have &#8220;special needs.&#8221; We know that.  In the China program, kids in the WC program have specified and identified kinds of special needs, but I don&#8217;t think many in the NSN line really think our kids will not have &#8220;special needs.&#8221;</p>
<p>All that said, the reminder is a good one, especially since so many of went through the social work interview process so many years ago.  Our training on attachment disorder will be four or five years in our past by the time we actually travel to China.  How many people really remember the details of stuff they read five years ago when they don&#8217;t have to use it in daily life?</p>
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		<title>By: Noendinsight</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68759</link>
		<dc:creator>Noendinsight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 16:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68759</guid>
		<description>erikawolf2004 - sorry, one other thing - you should do some  research on &quot;anxious attachment.&quot;  good luck ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>erikawolf2004 &#8211; sorry, one other thing &#8211; you should do some  research on &#8220;anxious attachment.&#8221;  good luck ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: lovemygirls</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68756</link>
		<dc:creator>lovemygirls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 16:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68756</guid>
		<description>Cangirl – I’ll try to describe the controlling behavior the best I can.  I think I first realized that we had a major problem was when I noticed that DD’s older sisters and I were all tip-toeing around her and giving her whatever she wanted to prevent her from having a “fit.”  At first I thought we’d just spoiled her, because she’s the youngest, but when we stopped giving in to her all the time she displayed major anxiety and what I called “head-spinning” temper tantrums.  The tantrums were very different from those my older girls (bio) had when they were younger.   They sometimes lasted for over an hour and DD would yell, “get away from me” and then, in the next breath, “pick me up mommy!”  When I’d try to pick her up, she would hit me or pull my hair.  I’d put her down and she’d scream for me again.  The cycle would continue, over and over and over.  She was very demanding and “bossy” and wanted to have her way all the time.  Basically, she didn’t completely trust me and so felt she needed to be the “boss” as a way to lessen her anxiety.  She also started having tantrums in the middle of the night.  We saw an attachment therapist for a couple of months and learned how to do holding time during her tantrums.  We also returned to co-sleeping and tried to simplify her daily routine.  I blogged about our experiences while we were going through it (I’m a terrible blogger, but I was better when this was going on).  My blog is www.thinthread.blogspot.com if you want to read more about our experiences.

Erickawolf2004 – Our difficulties started after the summer break when I had to return to work (I work for a school) and I, too, noticed that it was difficult for my daughter to return to daycare after the Christmas break.  What has helped my DD is to have a photo book she takes to daycare that has pictures of her daily routine and of me coming to pick her up.  For months, we reviewed all the pictures and talked about her routine every day before I left the daycare.  Now, she seems to have internalized the routine and is okay with just hugs, kisses, and reassurance that I’ll pick her up at the end of the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cangirl – I’ll try to describe the controlling behavior the best I can.  I think I first realized that we had a major problem was when I noticed that DD’s older sisters and I were all tip-toeing around her and giving her whatever she wanted to prevent her from having a “fit.”  At first I thought we’d just spoiled her, because she’s the youngest, but when we stopped giving in to her all the time she displayed major anxiety and what I called “head-spinning” temper tantrums.  The tantrums were very different from those my older girls (bio) had when they were younger.   They sometimes lasted for over an hour and DD would yell, “get away from me” and then, in the next breath, “pick me up mommy!”  When I’d try to pick her up, she would hit me or pull my hair.  I’d put her down and she’d scream for me again.  The cycle would continue, over and over and over.  She was very demanding and “bossy” and wanted to have her way all the time.  Basically, she didn’t completely trust me and so felt she needed to be the “boss” as a way to lessen her anxiety.  She also started having tantrums in the middle of the night.  We saw an attachment therapist for a couple of months and learned how to do holding time during her tantrums.  We also returned to co-sleeping and tried to simplify her daily routine.  I blogged about our experiences while we were going through it (I’m a terrible blogger, but I was better when this was going on).  My blog is <a href="http://www.thinthread.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thinthread.blogspot.com</a> if you want to read more about our experiences.</p>
<p>Erickawolf2004 – Our difficulties started after the summer break when I had to return to work (I work for a school) and I, too, noticed that it was difficult for my daughter to return to daycare after the Christmas break.  What has helped my DD is to have a photo book she takes to daycare that has pictures of her daily routine and of me coming to pick her up.  For months, we reviewed all the pictures and talked about her routine every day before I left the daycare.  Now, she seems to have internalized the routine and is okay with just hugs, kisses, and reassurance that I’ll pick her up at the end of the day.</p>
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		<title>By: Noendinsight</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68753</link>
		<dc:creator>Noendinsight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68753</guid>
		<description>erikawolf2004 - i have some friends who have gone through this.  it&#039;s not too much of an attachment - she&#039;s having some attachment anxiety (which is NOT to say she&#039;s not attached).

she is worried you won&#039;t pick her up.  she&#039;s worried to let you out of her sight.  i would reinforce to her every day &quot;mommy will pick you up after school in the same place, mommy always comes back, etc.&quot;  also make plans for that night &quot;when we get home tonight we&#039;re going to read this book.&quot;  constant reminders that she will see you again.  there are a lot of good children&#039;s books on this subject like &quot;mommy always comes home&quot; for working parents, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>erikawolf2004 &#8211; i have some friends who have gone through this.  it&#8217;s not too much of an attachment &#8211; she&#8217;s having some attachment anxiety (which is NOT to say she&#8217;s not attached).</p>
<p>she is worried you won&#8217;t pick her up.  she&#8217;s worried to let you out of her sight.  i would reinforce to her every day &#8220;mommy will pick you up after school in the same place, mommy always comes back, etc.&#8221;  also make plans for that night &#8220;when we get home tonight we&#8217;re going to read this book.&#8221;  constant reminders that she will see you again.  there are a lot of good children&#8217;s books on this subject like &#8220;mommy always comes home&#8221; for working parents, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Noendinsight</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68745</link>
		<dc:creator>Noendinsight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68745</guid>
		<description>i know this sounds horrible to say (and i wouldn&#039;t say it to anyone who doesn&#039;t understand all of this) but my biggest fear is that our future daughter will have no fear and appear to be happy and attached right away.  as horrific as it will be to witness, i am very much hoping for a meltdown or a shut-down.  my heart will break a million times over, but i know it will be a good sign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i know this sounds horrible to say (and i wouldn&#8217;t say it to anyone who doesn&#8217;t understand all of this) but my biggest fear is that our future daughter will have no fear and appear to be happy and attached right away.  as horrific as it will be to witness, i am very much hoping for a meltdown or a shut-down.  my heart will break a million times over, but i know it will be a good sign.</p>
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		<title>By: mom222b</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68744</link>
		<dc:creator>mom222b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68744</guid>
		<description>We did the same as Zhaonuer did with our dd who was 35 months when we met her...just taking these steps went a long way to minimize some of the possible issues that others may experience. I also think we have had a smooth transition thus far but it wasn&#039;t what I had expected. Because we were adopting a toddler, I knew we might be faced with additional issues. I read the Weaver&#039;s Craft and Deborah Gray&#039;s book on attachment. I was in school on-line at the time so I took a course in attachment theory...I had the time. Your comment about answering his cries and being attentive is key to attachment. I also read that we should not let her do things for herself...in other words regress her back to a younger child - we even went as far as putting her in pullups even though she was supposedly potty trained. She was just about three when we met her and she was quite capable of doing things that most three year olds were just learning. Some people may see this as a good thing...it&#039;s not. 

We are amazed every day by her but this doesn&#039;t mean we get to ignore the possibility that issues may occur. Does this mean we are sitting and waiting for something bad to happen...of course not but being aware isn&#039;t stealing any joy from parenting her.

I don&#039;t always expect it to remain this easy. It isn&#039;t always easy with our 11 y/o bio son. However, I am surprised when people make negative comments when someone brings up a subject like this. I witnessed some things in China that made me cringe because people did not take the time to prepare for this process. 

My advice is to be prepared - read the hard stuff too  - maybe it will never apply to you but read it anyway. Adopting a young child doesn&#039;t guarantee an easier transition neither does adopting a child who was fostered as opposed to being raised in an orphanage...there is simply no way to predict.

As for school - I think every child is different. I wasn&#039;t considering pre-k for DD but after her developmental assessment - her doctor felt, as did her pediatrician, that she would benefit from the social interaction. They were absolutely right - two days a week for 2.5 hours - she loves it. I should add that at her assessment she was found to be at or above her target age. She never exhibited signs of stress when we dropped her off - if she had we would have had to rethink our decision. She had been home for 6 months before we enrolled her.

As another poster said...it&#039;s process~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We did the same as Zhaonuer did with our dd who was 35 months when we met her&#8230;just taking these steps went a long way to minimize some of the possible issues that others may experience. I also think we have had a smooth transition thus far but it wasn&#8217;t what I had expected. Because we were adopting a toddler, I knew we might be faced with additional issues. I read the Weaver&#8217;s Craft and Deborah Gray&#8217;s book on attachment. I was in school on-line at the time so I took a course in attachment theory&#8230;I had the time. Your comment about answering his cries and being attentive is key to attachment. I also read that we should not let her do things for herself&#8230;in other words regress her back to a younger child &#8211; we even went as far as putting her in pullups even though she was supposedly potty trained. She was just about three when we met her and she was quite capable of doing things that most three year olds were just learning. Some people may see this as a good thing&#8230;it&#8217;s not. </p>
<p>We are amazed every day by her but this doesn&#8217;t mean we get to ignore the possibility that issues may occur. Does this mean we are sitting and waiting for something bad to happen&#8230;of course not but being aware isn&#8217;t stealing any joy from parenting her.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t always expect it to remain this easy. It isn&#8217;t always easy with our 11 y/o bio son. However, I am surprised when people make negative comments when someone brings up a subject like this. I witnessed some things in China that made me cringe because people did not take the time to prepare for this process. </p>
<p>My advice is to be prepared &#8211; read the hard stuff too  &#8211; maybe it will never apply to you but read it anyway. Adopting a young child doesn&#8217;t guarantee an easier transition neither does adopting a child who was fostered as opposed to being raised in an orphanage&#8230;there is simply no way to predict.</p>
<p>As for school &#8211; I think every child is different. I wasn&#8217;t considering pre-k for DD but after her developmental assessment &#8211; her doctor felt, as did her pediatrician, that she would benefit from the social interaction. They were absolutely right &#8211; two days a week for 2.5 hours &#8211; she loves it. I should add that at her assessment she was found to be at or above her target age. She never exhibited signs of stress when we dropped her off &#8211; if she had we would have had to rethink our decision. She had been home for 6 months before we enrolled her.</p>
<p>As another poster said&#8230;it&#8217;s process~</p>
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		<title>By: overjoyed</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68743</link>
		<dc:creator>overjoyed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68743</guid>
		<description>I have a question.... Many families these days are bringing home school age children.  The other day I was on one of my groups and a dad was saying that they&#039;ve been home a month with their child and now are planning to put her in school (and thinking about it and all said here, that month home for them was December~over stimulating month).  Anyway, he was starting to have questions because family members were questioning putting her in school so soon.  I teach and offered him my respectful 2 cents, but really thought it a horrible idea (wasn&#039;t that blunt).  So, my question is when do you put a child in school?  School is a reality, they eventually have to go or you have to home school them, but what are the recommendations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a question&#8230;. Many families these days are bringing home school age children.  The other day I was on one of my groups and a dad was saying that they&#8217;ve been home a month with their child and now are planning to put her in school (and thinking about it and all said here, that month home for them was December~over stimulating month).  Anyway, he was starting to have questions because family members were questioning putting her in school so soon.  I teach and offered him my respectful 2 cents, but really thought it a horrible idea (wasn&#8217;t that blunt).  So, my question is when do you put a child in school?  School is a reality, they eventually have to go or you have to home school them, but what are the recommendations?</p>
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		<title>By: zhaonuer</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68741</link>
		<dc:creator>zhaonuer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 03:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68741</guid>
		<description>After reading through all the responses I realize that while I do not think our son exhibits any issues, it definately took time to get to the point of secure attachment where we are now (15 months after coming home). Nothing is instant, but it does not have to be difficult or traumatic either. It was such a smooth process for us where all we had to do was limit outside experiences at first and always respond immediately to cries (still do), meet needs etc. The transition was so smooth that it seems like there were never any issues, but there is definately a distinction in how he interacts with us now and when we first came home. 

I should clarify that DS is not from China, and I think the 6 weeks visiting him in the orphanage before we gained custody were SO important for starting the attchment process on the right foot. I think it was good for him to see us interact with his favorite nanny over an extended period. He gradually came to trust us; the first week he always reached back for his nannies and was very serious with us. By the end of 3 weeks he was excited to see us. And at the end of 5 weeks he actually would cry and reach back for us when it was time to return him to his room. I wish the China process allowed for a slightly more gradual transition to ease a little of the initial trauma (not suggesting 6 weeks or anything :). 

I think kids&#039; personalities affect how they react and adjust to the same experiences, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading through all the responses I realize that while I do not think our son exhibits any issues, it definately took time to get to the point of secure attachment where we are now (15 months after coming home). Nothing is instant, but it does not have to be difficult or traumatic either. It was such a smooth process for us where all we had to do was limit outside experiences at first and always respond immediately to cries (still do), meet needs etc. The transition was so smooth that it seems like there were never any issues, but there is definately a distinction in how he interacts with us now and when we first came home. </p>
<p>I should clarify that DS is not from China, and I think the 6 weeks visiting him in the orphanage before we gained custody were SO important for starting the attchment process on the right foot. I think it was good for him to see us interact with his favorite nanny over an extended period. He gradually came to trust us; the first week he always reached back for his nannies and was very serious with us. By the end of 3 weeks he was excited to see us. And at the end of 5 weeks he actually would cry and reach back for us when it was time to return him to his room. I wish the China process allowed for a slightly more gradual transition to ease a little of the initial trauma (not suggesting 6 weeks or anything :). </p>
<p>I think kids&#8217; personalities affect how they react and adjust to the same experiences, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Magnolia's friend</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68740</link>
		<dc:creator>Magnolia's friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68740</guid>
		<description>I have conducted pre-travel briefings for adoptive families and I tell them I roughly categorise the reactions of children on handover into three categories (nothing scientific, just my observations) – those that scream and cry, those that withdraw (shutdown, withdraw into themselves) and the immediately ‘happy’ babies. And I always tell them that it is the ‘happy’ babies that you need to have your wits about you the most. The screamers and the withdrawn are, as RQ points out, showing a grief or stress response (and there is a heap for them to grieve or stress about – while you have been planning for years for this moment, your child did not know that they were suddenly going to lose what they knew as ‘home’ and their carers and be taken away by these strange looking, strange smelling strangers); the ‘happy’ baby is more than likely implementing a ‘coping’ mechanism learnt through institutionalisaton – babies who ‘please’ their carers get the most attention, but deep down they are as stressed as the other children, and like putting a lid of a volcano sometime, somewhere that pressure is going to release, maybe more intensely. I am always concerned when I read that children have instantly attached – it takes months and years for attachment. As RQ points out before that it is ’survival’ mode.

I find it painful to look back at the video of handover and the video of our trip. Knowing my daughter as I do now – even when she had calmed down after the initial massive stress reaction, even in the second week when she is smiling in the video, even when we had been home for weeks and months I now see how stressed she still was and it makes me ache. 

I said at the time and since that she clung to my husband and I like a shipwreck survivor clings to the only available liferaft – we were her new ‘constant’ in a sea of new places, and experiences. But that was survival mode. We had to work on attachment and that included going into ‘lock down’ – relatives found it the hardest to understand but as I explained to my parents, unless she learns what parents are for she can’t understand what grandparents are for (that they got).

Regards
Magnolia’s Friend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have conducted pre-travel briefings for adoptive families and I tell them I roughly categorise the reactions of children on handover into three categories (nothing scientific, just my observations) – those that scream and cry, those that withdraw (shutdown, withdraw into themselves) and the immediately ‘happy’ babies. And I always tell them that it is the ‘happy’ babies that you need to have your wits about you the most. The screamers and the withdrawn are, as RQ points out, showing a grief or stress response (and there is a heap for them to grieve or stress about – while you have been planning for years for this moment, your child did not know that they were suddenly going to lose what they knew as ‘home’ and their carers and be taken away by these strange looking, strange smelling strangers); the ‘happy’ baby is more than likely implementing a ‘coping’ mechanism learnt through institutionalisaton – babies who ‘please’ their carers get the most attention, but deep down they are as stressed as the other children, and like putting a lid of a volcano sometime, somewhere that pressure is going to release, maybe more intensely. I am always concerned when I read that children have instantly attached – it takes months and years for attachment. As RQ points out before that it is ’survival’ mode.</p>
<p>I find it painful to look back at the video of handover and the video of our trip. Knowing my daughter as I do now – even when she had calmed down after the initial massive stress reaction, even in the second week when she is smiling in the video, even when we had been home for weeks and months I now see how stressed she still was and it makes me ache. </p>
<p>I said at the time and since that she clung to my husband and I like a shipwreck survivor clings to the only available liferaft – we were her new ‘constant’ in a sea of new places, and experiences. But that was survival mode. We had to work on attachment and that included going into ‘lock down’ – relatives found it the hardest to understand but as I explained to my parents, unless she learns what parents are for she can’t understand what grandparents are for (that they got).</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Magnolia’s Friend</p>
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		<title>By: erikawolf2004</title>
		<link>http://chinaadopttalk.com/2010/01/05/the-nsn-misnomer/comment-page-2/#comment-68739</link>
		<dc:creator>erikawolf2004</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinaadopttalk.com/?p=5366#comment-68739</guid>
		<description>When we got home it didn&#039;t seem to have any attachment issues, but as she gets older she has issues when we leave her at school or has a major change is her/our schedule.  At school she actually gets sick after I leave her in the morning sometimes, especially when there has been a break, we are dealing with it again now that we are back after a two week Christmas break.  Rather than not attaching, she seems to have too much of an attachment, not that I think there could be such a thing, I just hurt for her that it is so hard for her when these things happen.  I read some of the attachment building stuff before we traveled and she attached to us beautifully, but as she gets older this stuff seems to be getting worse, she is almost 5.  Any suggestions???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When we got home it didn&#8217;t seem to have any attachment issues, but as she gets older she has issues when we leave her at school or has a major change is her/our schedule.  At school she actually gets sick after I leave her in the morning sometimes, especially when there has been a break, we are dealing with it again now that we are back after a two week Christmas break.  Rather than not attaching, she seems to have too much of an attachment, not that I think there could be such a thing, I just hurt for her that it is so hard for her when these things happen.  I read some of the attachment building stuff before we traveled and she attached to us beautifully, but as she gets older this stuff seems to be getting worse, she is almost 5.  Any suggestions???</p>
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