Ripping the bandage off
Are you a “slowly peel it off” person, or a “rip it off all at once” person?
If it’s on hair, then I’m a “take a long bath and then slowly peel it off” person. If it’s not on hair then I’m just a “slowly peel it off” person. I do not ever rip it off if I have a choice in the matter. But some people prefer to just do one fast rip and get it over with.
Various country IA programs are the same. Some have you come visit the child for a few hours a day for a week, or for several weeks. The child gets to slowly get used to you on their own turf that way, and when the handover finally happens it isn’t so traumatic.
China likes to just rip that bandage right off, though. The child is handed over and that’s that.
I think I’ve talked before that I am positive that visiting the orphanage a few days after we got GlitterGirl gave her the closure she needed. Maybe she needed to see her caretaker approve of us, or maybe she just needed to be reminded of what she had before vs what she was getting? Or perhaps it was just closure, a final goodbye now that she realized it was goodbye. I don’t know, but visiting the orphanage helped. I know there are people who advise against taking the child back for a visit so soon, but as with everything else, I think it probably depends on the child. Be prepared to go sit on the bus if your child doesn’t handle it well, but don’t just assume it’s a bad idea because someone has said it was a bad idea for their child.
As was discussed yesterday, as much as we’d like for the transition to be a smooth one for our kids… it’s actually better if it is not. A child in that situation should not be all happiness and smiles. A child who has just been handed over to strangers – and not just strangers, but strange people who are strangers (different looks, different language, etc), that child should exhibit signs of trauma and grief. GlitterGirl did a lot of screaming and crying; TwinkleToes completely shut down. TT had this vacant look, like there was no one home. I’m not sure how I knew she was shut down and this wasn’t a permanent thing, but I did. I can’t explain how I knew, lots of people asked me how I knew when I talked about it after we were home, and I could not answer them.
That’s not to say those first days have to be pure h-e-double-hockeysticks. GlitterGirl was thrilled with food in those first days. Cheerios could fix just about anything back then. And if I ordered steamed eggs in the restaurant she squealed with delight (really loud and really excited squeals, the entire restaurant would look at us and smile and grin).
And TwinkleToes came around a bit during a shopping trip when we bought her shoes and clothes and then put them on her. She was sooo proud of those shoes, it almost broke my heart. To this day, she is still proud of shoes and clothes, and she knows exactly who gave her every piece of clothing she has. When she puts her clothes on she will say “grams gave me this shirt for Christmas and aunt Joey gave me this sweater on my birthday and you bought me these pants”. (It sounds nothing like that with her speech issues, but that’s what she means).
But back to my point, what I’m trying to say is that, in those first days, we did a lot of reminding ourselves that in the long run, this was good. We did everything we could to be there for both wants and needs. It wasn’t easy for any of us, but we made it through it and then the smiles and laughter started in earnest.
GlitterGirl screamed at night for years though. She had major sleep issues and would scream and go frantic for hours at night before she’d finally drop off asleep after she’d gone beyond exhaustion. For years, she was happy baby (or happy toddler) during the day, but at night, not so much. But, that’s a subject for another post. Or perhaps an entire book. I know many of us have dealt with sleep issues, our family isn’t the only one. But it was tough.
Today? GlitterGirl can see our bed from her bed. She’s across the hall from us, and has been in her own room for years, but she still needs that at night. TwinkleToes has recently been waking up some at night and we haven’t figured that out yet, but she goes to sleep just fine in her big bed. But they both spent years in our room before they started sleeping in their own rooms. They needed it, so that’s what we did.
It gets better, but those first few days after the handover are rough. I wish China would give a transition period, but I understand that for some orphanages it would be a logistical nightmare. Still, it would be so much easier on our children if it could happen. One less major trauma in their life would be a good thing.
Related Post: The Not-So-Rosy Part
January 7th, 2010 at 10:06 am
Excellent Post. I agree that China uses the ripping off of the bandage method, and that it makes the time in China a challenge, among many other things that add to the list. Our first daughter went through a long two week period of crying , screaming, etc. -She would have her bright spots too- when food was freely given , and clothes. The hardest part for Me was that she didn’t like Me, she was all about Daddy at that point because her director at her orphanage was a man, and that was her comfort zone. We had others in our group that had it worse,where babies were unhappy for most of the trip, and then some that were happy all the time. As we wait to get our second daughter from China, LID 4-19-06, my thoughts are going back to those days more and more. Our older now 7 is personality plus now and loves Me! and her daddy and had lots of friends etc. -I am trying to prepare her for the not so rosy part, the saddness, the not sleeping, etc., but I want her to know that we will be a happy family together at some point, maybe not just right at the day we get her sister. In the end it will be worth it , if we tackle the issues head on instead of sweeping them under the rug. God Bless all of you who are waiting, especially the first time parents that have stayed with this process. It will be worth it, take it from someone who knows that without a doubt!
January 7th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Thank you, thank you, thank you RQ for posting your thoughts on this topic. My husband and I leave next Wednesday and we’ve been granted permission to visit our daughter’s orphanage two days after gotcha day. We’ve just recently began to invision what that event might look like: how our daughter will react and what our response will and should be. It’s been a little nerve wracking, to say the least!
I appreciate all you do!
January 7th, 2010 at 10:39 am
The “rip off the bandage” approach was fine for us because, as I posted yesterday, our kids were unattached anyway. I doubt it would have made any difference if we had visited at the orphanage or not, because the babies didn’t seem to care much. The orphanage was about 10 hours away from the provincial center, so it would have also been a logistics problem. However, it might have been nice from the parents point of view, just to see the orphanage and town.
There is also the problem of sick children and really bad orphanages. A friend of mine adopted her son from Siberia. When they arrived, they were supposed to go through a transition period – but it was obvious that the child was starving and very sick. They managed to take the child with them immediately so they could find medical care. This orphanage was so poor that they demanded not only the child’s clothes, but also his diaper back!!
A gradual transition might make more sense if the child is in foster care or a good orphanage.
January 7th, 2010 at 10:42 am
DD preferred DS and then DH for the first few days. People asked me if this upset me…truthfully…it didn’t. I was the one who took her from the woman who traveled with her…not sure if she was someone who took care of DD. I thought I recognized her one of the SWI pictures but I can’t be sure. She screamed, hit me and said boo! It was a bit unnerving and I felt other’s watching but it wasn’t about me – it was about our DD – who was experiencing something she could not control and certainly could not understand.
As for her rejecting me, I was prepared and from everything I read about attachment as long as she was going to one of us – there was a good chance that she would be able to attach to me in time. After about two days that all changed and then it was only me and then over the course of the trip it was all of us. Once we were home it was me all the time but I would attribute this to being a SAHM and DH and DS being gone all day to work and school.
10 months later she is a work in progress with little to no issues. There will be times when she wants mommy to put her to bed instead of daddy but we tell her that daddy would be sad and that he would really like to do it…she say’s “okay, I try”…
Maybe that will be our slogan going forward – especially when things are running so smoothly.
Jo-Anne
January 7th, 2010 at 10:48 am
I soo wish we could have visited the orphanage, but due to the Swine Flu we weren’t allowed. Just to have seen were she lived for 5 years I think would have given me insight in to her life. I do have a lot of pictures from other parents, and when she sees them she just lights up. I am not sure if it was because she was treated so well (which I think she was) or if it just seeing something familiar again. She stilll talks about her friends that she left behind and has told me some stories that would make your heart break.
I too noticed a distant feeling in my daughters eyes for quite awhile after adoption. SOmetimes she would snap out of it , sometimes not. I think it is called disassociation? Every once in a while I will still see that look, but it is not often now. As I said yesterday we still have a long way to go though.
January 7th, 2010 at 11:27 am
If there is one thing I would tell adoptive parents they should do? then it would be: VISIT THE ORPHANAGE!!!
I’m Dutch. We adopted two times, and both times the guide said at the airport when she picked us up: “You are Dutch so you want to visit, right”. And she was right. The Dutch are known to be eager orphanage visistors. Before we went to China to adopt my husband said to me: “I don’t care if I have to crawl on my hands and knees for a day with you and my child on my back, but no matter what: I WILL VISIT.”
It was very good that he was so headstrong, because once we had our daughter she was very emotional and so was I. I thought it might not be a good idea, I also have to admit I might have been a bit afraid of what would happen if we were there and she would meet her favourite nanny again.
But as he promised, my husband was determined, and so we went. THANK GOD WE DID! It was very good for our 12 month old daughter, she really found closure there. It was incredibly emotional, she clung to her nanny as if her life depended on it. But that was a good thing, we now had proof she had been loved and had once attached and I’m still grateful for that. But I was crying my eyes out at that moment. I felt guilty and insecure, not sure of whether we were doing the right thing for our daughter taking her to another country, away from everything she knew. But in hindsight, it’s absolutely priceless. The smells, the street, the building, the view, the village, the nanny. Everything is photographed and part of her life history now. And even if your child shows no attachment at all to her nanny, this will also explain a lot about the behaviour they will show in the near future. So it’s always useful to meet the caretakers.
At this moment I’m moving heaven and earth to get some last details of her life 3 years after gotcha day, and my oh my is it difficult to get in contact with China. So, again, when you are there…….GO GO GO. Don’t be afraid, just let it happen and suck it all in! Our kids are resiliant, they will cope and handle things, you will see.
January 7th, 2010 at 11:29 am
I vividly remember during one of our classes at the agency (whilst waiting) the SW telling us how there is usually one child in each group that totally freaks out–crying, grieving etc and how it was such a good sign since it meant they had attached and would be able to attach again. I said to DH–yeah that will be our kid. Sure enough…our DD wailed and cried her little heart out so hard on that first day that we could not get our family Visa photo done. And the whole time I kept reminding myself how it really was a good thing. (but yeah it still broke my heart–I wanted to do anything to take away that pain and fear from her). We’ve been home about 2.5 years and we’ve had some mild issues–but overall we have been very fortunate as a family. I am a SAHM and I spent a lot of time toting her about in the Ergo or just cuddling her when we were first home. We would have loved to have visited her SWI but were not able to. I don’t know that we would have brought her back at that time…but now we talk about visiting and she seems very interested. I have shown her photos and sometimes she gets very quiet–sometimes she gets very excited.
January 7th, 2010 at 11:44 am
I haven’t read the comments, but wanted to say this:
In the case of my daughter, I am glad that we had the quick transition from orphanage to my arms or the “rip it off all at once” description RQ used. Waiting longer (like adoptions in other countries that take 2 trips) would have prolonged my daughter’s hearing issues created from never ending infections. That would have delayed her speech and development far greater than they already were. Her behavior in China told me that there was something wrong (she was a NSN referral). I thought it was attachment because she was very subdued and rarely verbalized. But it was due to hearing loss, which by the way brings a whole host of behavioral issues that also need to be dealt with. Being able to deal with the hearing issues immediately upon returning home was very important in her development and subsequent attachment.
So RQ is right when she said that it depends upon the child.
I have already said this hundreds of times, but will say it for 1000 more……have your child’s hearing tested when they come home. Many of the behaviors associated with non attachment are the same as those associated with hearing loss. The sooner you get a diagnosis of a hearing loss the better it will be for your child’s development. Also, if there is no hearing loss then you can check that off your list of possibilities, especially if they are exhibiting non-attachment related behaviors.
January 7th, 2010 at 11:57 am
My second son has severe hearing loss, so I totally agree with the advice to get hearing tested. I don’t think the symptoms really overlap much at all with the symptoms of attachment difficulties. However, hearing loss symptoms are very similar to attention deficit symptoms, and also manifest as speech delays. So if your child is being diagnosed with ADD, autistic spectrum disorders, or speech delay, get his/her hearing tested!!
January 7th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
ratgirl – so true. It would have been devestating to me to leave DS in an orphanage during the transisiton period if I felt he was not getting the care he needed. In that case I would have wanted the handover to be immediate. As it was, we could see that he was clean, had enough food, toys, a nice crib, and nannies who genuinely seemed to enjoy and care about him. In that situation, the gradual transition over 6 weeks was great.
While DH and I are prepared for whatever reaction our new child from China exhibits, one of the things I worry about is how to explain reactions to our son (who we absolutely plan to bring with us if at all possible) to keep him from being too upset. We guess that he will be around 3 at the time.
LID 6/23/06
January 7th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
i really liked one of the recommendations i read in one book.
they said take a picture of your child when lived in the SWI (the referral photo in most cases if that’s all you have). then take a picture of them being handed to you for the first time. then take a picture of them at home, in your house, with the family.
take all three pictures, put them in order, and copy them in color so they are side-by-side. put them around the house – next to their bed, etc. reinforce over and over again “this was kate when she lived in china. this is kate when her mommy got her in china and this is kate where she lives now.” so that the child doesn’t confuse the process and the sequence and are reminded that the last step is where they are now. i may not have explained it correctly, but you get the general idea.
we often think kids understand a lot more than they really do.
another idea was to get a slinky. explain that you child is one end of the slinky and you are the other. stretch it as far as you can go and then bring it back together. explain that you are like the slinky – you are usually together, but even if you are apart you are still always connected and will always come back together.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Noendinsight – love the slinky idea!! I’ll definitely be using that one!
We visited the orphanage a week or so after receiving our daughter and it’s an experience I wouldn’t have missed. Now that our daughter is four, it is so important for me to be able to describe the orphanage to her and for her to know that we saw where she lived for her first nine months. It didn’t seem particularly traumatic for the babies in our travel group. Interestingly, they all seemed to prefer their new mothers to the nannies. Our daughter became mildly distressed when I handed her to the nanny and reached back for me. But it is nice for her to have a photo of herself with the nanny, who is smiling and obviously cares for her. The nannies at my DD’s small orphanage really, really seemed to appreciate that we brought the babies back for a visit. Our daughter’s orphanage is in a rural area and few adoptive families are able to visit. The nannies seemed thrilled to see the babies and to meet their new parents. Our daughter received good care in the orphanage and I was grateful to be able to thank the nannies and the orphanage director personally.
January 7th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Noendinsight~ I too really like the slinky idea and will be using that one for sure!
January 7th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Love the analogy RQ of ripping the bandage off. DD (at 11 months) came to us subdued, was okay with us, just kept looking us over as if to say, what the heck is this? She would be fine during day (party animal-social/smily) but RAGE and cry most of the night. Still has sleep issues 3 years later and is her most vulnerable at night. We still cosleep most nights. DS (at 19 months) came to us subdued but fine UNTIL ayis left then raged for hours. After initial huge rage, was fairly fine mood wise. Went to both of us but once ayis left-would only go to me for about a month and a half. No sleep issues but had some early sensory issues that are now really improving. Your story about the shoes made me remember my son. He came in soft shoes, too small for his feet. We went to get him shoes right away and his eyes got so big-he picked out squeaky shoes and wouldn’t take them off except for bath for 2 days! He had never had his own pair of shoes. He slept in them. We bought him more but that first pair were his favorite! He still LOVES shoes-the flashier the better!
January 7th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I could not agree more. The trauma would be so greatly lessened with a more gradual transition.
With our first daughter it was easier. The hand-over took about 30 minutes. The babies stayed in the nannies arms for about 20 minutes while we just played a bit with them and oogled. Still, there was crying and screaming when they were finally placed in our arms but that’s fine. I didn’t feel like it was too rushed. And we did not go the orphanage with her later.
With our second – it was h-e-double hockey sticks. After the babies spent 10 hours over-night on a train, we walked into the room where they were feeding the babies, her mouth literally stuffed with banana and the nanny almost threw her at me and walked away. After 30 minutes of choking and hysteria, I finally got her calmed down and then she shut down, big-time, for about 3 days. It was pitiful. We did return to her orphanage (yep, all the way back) 2 days later but she didn’t seem to even know where she was (and she was 22 months at the time).
Oh, how I wish they would change the way the children meet their families.
http://www.atlastmilanascominhome.blogspot.com
January 7th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Noendinsight- I love the two “tips” you mentioned. I wish I had known about the picture taking. It makes perfect sense to me. We’ve been home 16 mos and have had no issues to speak of yet but my dd recently started to show a bit of separation anxiety so the slinky is a great idea for us AND I think I still may use the picture advice even tho we’ve been home a while.
RQ – can you remind us how old your girls were at the time of adoption. I wonder how much that impacts the level of trauma.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
GG was about as young as babies ever are when adopted from China. TT was close to two years old.
GG has had a lot more attachment issues than TT, but it’s something I really have to keep in mind with both.
January 7th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Maybe I am a band-aid ripper off-er, but I was glad to take my darling immediately for a few reasons. She was very very sick (big white and pink sores all over her throat and mouth, also had a sinus infection,and an bad ear infection – she was a little mess) when I got her, and just looked so tired, sick, and limp. I took her to the White Swan Hotel doctor (I recommend them) and she was put on antibiotics. I was scared she would not pass the physical in a few days, but she did.
The nannies that brought her did not seeem that interested in her – they really seemed to want to hand her off and leave. (They had a six hour car ride to get to us). We had been told we were going to have time to ask questions, but then were told the nannies wanted to leave quickly, so there would not be time for any questions. My darling was from a large SWI, and I did not get an impression that she or the nannies were attached to each other, and the body language from the nannies were very hurried. Based on her conditioin I got her I would safely say she was neglected.
Frankly, I don’t think there would have been any benefit for my daughter to have stayed any longer in her SWI- she would have just gotton sicker, and would have just prolonged her neglect. She needed someone to take care of her and be loved!!!!!!
January 7th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Hello all,
Our daughter was almost 11 months when we got her and she never freaked out with us at all. I was glad that when we arrived at the civil affairs office she was already there and I got to talk to her in Chinese and hold her hand as she sat on the nannies lap. I think they were telling here that I was her mom. My Chinese is limited. She has had very few problems related to IA. Her biggest issus was that she was TERRIFIED of CHINESE PEOPLE for well over a year. She is over that now but a visit to the orphanage would have been interesting for me. But it would have been TRAMATIC for her. We stayed in the hotel room for 2 days, taking turning leaving the room to eat. She was FINE with us. She shook like a leaf when we took her out to the hotel restaurant for the first time 2 days later. She FREAKED out when the waitress tried to talk to her in CHINESE. She wanted NOTHING to do with anyone or anything Chinese. I think the rest of the families in our group thought we were antisocial. We never did anything with them. The point was our daughter was NOT READY for a trip to the zoo, buddist temple, etc. I remember meeting one mother on the elevator and she told me that her daughter was fine. No problems at all. Just one look at the kid told a different story. She was the only ROUND EYED Chinese Kid I have ever seen. She was CLEARLY TERRIFIED. But MOM had to sightsee. Do your sightseeing before you get the kid. After getting the child your job is to bond with them.
Now three years later my daughter is facinated with all things Chinese. She wants to go for a visit. She wants to read stories about China and watch movies about China. But it took a lot of time to get to that point.
Also once we got home she was at home all the time for several months. We took turns going our for groceries, church etc. She got familiar with US, OUR HOUSE, OUR YARD, etc. When we started to go to church I SAT IN THE NURSERY with her so her first experience with church was not that place where Mom and Dad abandoned her. I know some must put the child in Day Care but if at all possible have one parent stay at home. It will be much better in the long run.
January 7th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Noendinsight ~ That’s a really good idea about the picture’s & slinky, will keep that in mind when it’s my turn.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to preserve those wonderful memories? I usually do a yearly photo book at the end of the year, & print some picture’s, but have no time for actual scrapbooking. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Or do you know of any link that helps you manage those memories…..
thank you, and Happy New Year to everyone!
January 7th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
aryohana – i’m a huge scrapbooker – but it’s really time consuming. however, digital scrapbooking is very manageable. maybe check that out?
January 7th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
We also had the raging child, she was 17 months at the handover, and I think the rest of the travel group was grateful she belonged to us. BUT, she is doing well now. Our SW also said the kids who rage have been attached and will attach again, so I feel grateful for the screaming! She is one spicy girl!
January 7th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
A story for those whose kids raged at night:
I had the same problem with DS while in country (not China – a different country in Asia). We were told he didn’t like the crib by his foster mom, so we assumed he was cosleeping. When we tried it he would kick forcefully but quietly until we tried to get him to stop, when he would cry. When we got him to stop crying it was back to the kicking, etc. When we finally got home, exhausted, I decided to try putting him in the crib (which we hadn’t tried at all before). He went straight down and has never had a problem sleeping since.
January 7th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
aryohana…we scan our pictures and put them in the digital photo frames. You can either load the pictures directly from your digital camera or scan your hard-copy photos into the frame. They hold hundreds of pictures that continue to cycle through. They are so much fun to look at and only take up the space of one frame. We used to do photo albums but those tended to get put away never to be looked at. The digital photo frames are great.
If you don’t have a scanner, you can take your pictures to Walgreens and use their scanners for about $5.
Susan
LID 06-10-06
January 7th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
I don’t know if it is different generally for older kids or if we just got lucky but we had the “rip it off” experience with our 4 year old (at the time) son and it wasn’t bad at all. At the orphanage in Taiwan we met with his social workers and then they went to get him. Well, he sprinted in, yelled “Baba” and jumped on me. Then mommy. And then he asked his social worker where the taxi was. He never looked back. Actually, him not looking back bothers us because he doesn’t talk about the orphanage and says he remembers nothing. Still, he was extremely well prepared for what was coming, including doing a touchdown dance when the pilot said we were about to land in “Jianada”. There have been very mild attachment issues and some early sleep issues, but all in all the quick method seems to be OK for him and for us.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
One of the things I’ve had to continuously remind myself is that “normal” is a theoretical idea. It does not really exist and frankly is just a statistical average. I’ve had to think of normal more like a range or fuzzy category of where most people are. My DDs are not like most people as they have had extraordinary early life experiences. I guess I don’t like the idea of normal too much…no one in my family is very “normal.” I like EXTRAORDINARY!
I was told last week that my second DD had language production at the 40th percentile for a 4 year old. So, basically she sounds like a 2 year old when she tries to communicate. The fact that she was adopted at 2.5 yo and had no discernable language at all says a lot about her resilience and amazing intelligence. When she saw that her older sister had a little picture album filled with color 3×5 photos of her transition from her China trip to our family but that she did NOT…I heard about it clearly and directly in good English. I quickly put together an identical little album on the spot (I didn’t think it was valued that much by DD1 so I skipped it…big mistake!) These are not photos for adults to enjoy. It is only for each girl to see themselves prior to family and with family. It’s stashed in with their toys so they can grab it when they want to look at it. I just used regular printer paper and small color photos in sequential order of events. Evidently, it DOES matter and IS valued.
Recently, the big thing is telling them bed-time stories that begin “once upon a time”…and end with “THE end.” In between I tell about working really hard to fill out the paperwork, go to classes, get a picture of my new little girl and then go on the airplane to get our daughter in China. THEY LOVE THIS bedtime story format…a mix of fairytale princess format but all about them. Then they say…tell another one…tell one about how Mommy and Daddy met! I hope everyone’s story ends happily ever after but we have to wait to see how it turns out.
January 7th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Hello all,
I am usually a total lurker on this site. In fact, I think this is the first time I have ever posted. However, I have read RQ nearly every day for the last 4 years, we brought our Grace home in 2003. She is from Chongqing SWI.
First, I have to say that my heart goes out to all of you waiting. I can’t even imagine. We submitted our dossier right before the new quotas took effect in 2001, and so had to wait 13 whole months for a referral, and they split our month into two parts! I was so mad…I was hopping up and down. I wish my bad luck and wait on all of you..
Now onto this attachment issue. My husband and I had a long discussion about this today. Our Grace is now 7. She is in the 4th grade, gifted and talented program, having skipped kinder and 2nd grade. She does very well, has friends, even best friends that she calls and chats with. She is a great soccer player. She plays up on a U9 Club Team, she is a defender, they call her the Great Wall of China…nothing gets by Grace. She is funny, wise, tries new things often, curious, competitive, loving. My husband and I cannot see the attachment issues if there are some. Please help. I have read the recommended books and she doesn’t fit the mold.
She came to us from the orphanage at 11 months. She was CHUBBY! Had fat rolls in fact. We did visit the orphanage on the day after Gotcha, Grace was the only girl who went inside. Her nanny, Ping carried her for the duration of our visit, she fed her one last time, and tearfully handed her to us. Grace did not cry at all. My parents and my mother in law, plus our then 4 year old son, accompanied us to China. Grace bonded with us all. Her first word was Ian, (her brother’s name). She is still his shadow.
Our story is different, but no less valid. She has no questions about China, in fact she does not identify with being Chinese. It always surprises her when someone mentions it, I think she forgets.
Please Comment
January 7th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Tamknit – I am hoping your story is our story. Our child giggled and laughed the very first day we had her. The underlying theme that this is somehow bad or invalid is driving me to distraction. I was a happy baby growing up; my brother was not. Some of the reactions of the children are just the way they are “wired” as individuals; God creates us all to be unique. I have a dear friend whose daughter cried for 30 days; ours did not cry at all (yet). I have a hard time believing her experience is to be celebrated while ours is somehow wrong “that child should exhibit signs of trauma and grief.” Different children should be allowed to react differently without being judged. My suggestion is to parent your child with the resources you have available and in the way that you feel is best for your child. It seems your child is successful and happy; let no one take away your joy!
January 7th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
tamknit all i can say is wow…I have no other words…
January 7th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
I’m glad I didn’t experienced a rip it off all at once adoption with China.
Our son was brought to us in our hotel room in the morning. Two directors and a chief-nanny stayed with us in the room for a while. We saw them again in the afternoon, the following day we met them again and visit them the third day at the orphanage’s gate (didn’t go inside because they were scared of flu) with about 12 people from the orphanage staff.
My son had a wonderful transition. He was a little shy on the first day and completly open on the second day. He was from an orphanage were there were 70 kids so he received a lot of attention from them.
January 7th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
The book that talks about the slinky and 3 photos is called Parenting Your Internationally Adopted Child From Your Fist Hours Together Through the Teen Years by Patty Cogen. I am reading it now – it’s an awesome book! I’m drinking in all of the advice.
LID 4/4/06
January 7th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
I dissagree the trauma is still there. Been there done that and have more understanding. It does not matter if you rip it off now or in 6 weeks it still feels the same. They still lose everything they have ever known. I have visited daughter in an orphanage for 5 weeks before taking her out. She has never seen outside world before. For the first 2 weeks when we got home she was silent not a word not a sound. she was grieving as much as any child. I can’t tell you how much happiness would a video of children she knew bring to her. Yes I know I was fortunate to have that but the trauma was still there.
January 7th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Tamknit – I am hoping your story is our story. Our child giggled and laughed the very first day we had her. The underlying theme that this is somehow bad or invalid is driving me to distraction. I was a happy baby growing up; my brother was not. Some of the reactions of the children are just the way they are “wired” as individuals. I have a dear friend whose daughter cried for 30 days; ours did not cry at all (yet). I have a hard time believing her experience is to be celebrated while ours is somehow wrong “that child should exhibit signs of trauma and grief.” Different children should be allowed to react differently without being judged. My suggestion is to parent your child with the resources you have available and in the way that you feel is best for your child. It seems your child is successful and happy; let no one take away your joy!
January 8th, 2010 at 12:42 am
I have to say that I have adopted 3x…and each girl was differnt…one was a clinger, one shut down for a few days, one laughed and smiled right away…and they are all thriving…tho having sisters may have been an advantage. I simply think that, despite what all books say, there is no one Right Way or one way that most children react. We are working on a continuum here…a sliding scale which each child creates based on many personal factors.
January 8th, 2010 at 10:08 am
A child who was abandoned at birth and who was fostered or raised in a SWI cannot be compared to a child who was not. The basis of attachment is consistent care provided by a loving caregiver. The child needs to feel secure and to know that his/her needs will be met. When this does not occur children learn other ways to survive.
A child that is laughing and smiling when given to strangers should at least be cause for some concern. At the very least it might signal a lack of attachment. Does this mean you cannot joyfully raise this child, no but it might be something you want to research or at least be aware of. The next time you’re out go up to a stranger and take their baby from them…while I am sure no one would do this…I am also sure that after some initial shock the child will most likely scream. It just makes sense.
I am not sure why people think education is “stealing the joy” – we are all here for the same reasons. We have been or will be blessed with parenting these remarkable children. The overriding story is a positive one – that no matter how they come to us – with consistent love and attention to their needs, most of the children do very well but as many have honestly attested to – it isn’t always easy and some of our kids will need a lot of assistance.
Other than not making a sound for a few months at home – DD seems to be doing remarkably well but to say that we’re in the clear would be completely ignorant on my part. I don’t sit around waiting for an issue to emerge nor do I blame everything thing she does on being adopted. I still read the books and listen to the BTDT’s because while every child is different, I still might learn something along the way – something that will make my parenting even more joyful~
Jo-Anne
January 8th, 2010 at 11:02 am
I’ve been a long time lurker to this site, and feel compelled to comment on the past two topics. We adopted DD in the spring of 2003, she was officially nsn, but has had many attachment, sensory, sleep and anxiety issues to deal with over the years. The anxiety issues are ongoing, officially she’s been diagnosed as having “selective mutism”, meaning that she completely shuts down in some (usually public, social, stressful) situations, so that she seems unresponsive. We continue to work on this with her with lots of love and support and understanding of what is/isn’t realisitic to expect from her, especially in school.
In terms of the hand over, while I can see the argument for this being done more gradually, in our case DD was severly malnourished, had a bad case of scabies and was quite sickly, needing IV antibiotics in short order. She did not seem to be the least bit attached to the nanny who held her, nor did the nanny show much interest in DD. DD had marks on her legs (from being tied to a potty? her bed) and a very flat and mishapen head from always lying down. So I would nnot have wanted her to spend one extra minute in the orphanage.
We were lucky in that my husband and I travelled alone to her province, and DD was brought to our hotel room by a nanny and other orphanage administrator. DD looked startled, but smiled and laughed within seconds of being in our arms. I was prepared for screaming, for rejection, for a complete shutdown. I had read and researched everything I could get my hands on re:attachment, and so knew that this did not mean she was immediately comfortable or attaching, however.. this is what my husband thought was happening, this is the story he tells, and the one DD loves to hear. I may know that it was not a good sign that she wasn’t grieving a loss of a loving caregiver, but I don’t share this information with anyone. DD and DH believe that we had the ideal first meeting, that we’d waited so long for each other and knew we belonged together. (Yes, DH had heard all about attachment, and been to the seminars with me, but it may have gone in one ear and out the other… though he’s supported every need and extra bit of effort and attention DD has ever had). I don’t see any reason to contradict them.
We were not able to visit the orphanage, we were travelling in the height of SARS so everything was shutting down while we were in China. The benefit of this was that we were alone with our daughter (and guide at times) for the first week. DD was in our arms constantly, and clung to us for dear life. Looking back at videos I recognize signs in her face that show how stressed she was, and while it’s sad, it also reassures me that she was stressed and not just happily accepting us. With her selective mutism, I also now know that she would never, ever cry out or make any showy sign of grief or upset…. it takes really knowing her well to see these signs, and while I loved her immediately, I didn’t know her well.
I followed all of the attachment guidelines very closely, and believe that this helped her learn to trust us. I was shocked during our second week in China when reunited with families from our agency to see how they passed there babies around from person to person, and shopped til they dropped! Once back home we were quarantined for two weeks with DD and our 2DS… a wonderful thing for DD. After that, I often put a blanket over her stoller when walking DS to and from school to keep out the prying eyes and stimulation, this really helped DD relax.
Rebecca
January 8th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Yes, if at all possible–visit the orphanage! It will tell you so much about your child’s life even if it is a short visit. With our first daughter, who grieved and grieved for days when we first got her, the visit to the SWI was wonderful and we saw how warm her caregivers were. They treated us like honored guests and gave us tea! With our second daughter, who shut down much as RQ describes TT doing, we were not allowed inside the orphanage…the nennies waved from the balcony. DD became very upset and agitated while we were there, as if she wanted to leave. Nearly 3 years later she is the one who still exhibits anxious attachment and is still in our room….and it makes perfect sense to us!
Steph
January 8th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
As with all things adoption – it depends!
A logistics nightmare might be worse than the rip it off. Both our girls are from SWI that were 6-8 hours from the civil affairs office. The trip would have been equally stressful since they had just made the trip into the province capital and to make that drive 2 more times would have been horrid for everyone.
DD2 at almost age 4, was very attached to the director who brought her to us. He was very kind and had obviously prepared her to met us and had shown her our photo album. He got down on the floor with us when she came to me for the first time, explaining new mama, new baba, new jie jie. She only became distressed when he went into a side office. I don’t think a gradual transition would have changed anything, but she was prepared.
DD1 at 9 months was terrified, but even knowing her so well now, I don’t think a gradual transition would have helped.
I do think that staying in China for the 2 weeks without normal interruptions of life is VERY good for the transition. I just can’t imagine jumping right back on an airplane to head home. We had time to devote entirely to our new daughter where, aside from the strange new parents, food, smells and other humans were familiar looking. Having DD1 along on the trip for DD2 was also great – big sister was an instant ice breaker and it allowed the two to bond on neutral ground.
January 8th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
nanbwill~ I agree that staying in China was helpful. I like that other countries allow for a slower transition but they also make you leave and come back, which I don’t think is in the best interest of the child or the parents for that matter. I also think it helped being around others who were adopting because there was sense of community and support. We were all going through pretty much the same emotions, struggles, etc. We met some great families and it took a lot of the pressure off…we were able to laugh and talk.
In the long run it may matter very little how long it took – most of the children will be too young to remember. Our DD was almost three and I have yet to determine how much she remembers from the SWI, the day we met, etc. We’ve been very open about all of it with her and have even looked at all the pictures that we received from the SWI through Half the Sky…I don’t get the sense that she is blocking it out but only time will tell. She points to her picture and says Cai-Lin is sad and when I ask her what about now she says Cai-Lin is not sad anymore…it may all come spilling out someday.
Our son who was 10 at the time was also the first one DD responded too – the pictures are priceless~
January 8th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
The logistics would be in getting the parents to the orphanage, not in making the kids travel several times.
In my mind, the parents would spend, say, four to six hours at the SWI the first day, then spend most of the day the next two days (learning the schedule, feeding their child, playing with their child, diapering, putting them down for the night, etc), and then at the end of the third day would leave with them. The children would get used to the new parents in their own environment before being removed from a place that they are used to. I think it would be a whole lot less traumatic. And the way trauma works, it doesn’t matter if you remember it or not – that kind of trauma changes brain chemistry. It’s a really big deal.
For children with medical issues then the parents could either pay for a doctor to come to the SWI, or there would be an easy way to get a waiver for the parents to leave with the child to take them to the hospital.
Logistically, though, for a system that wants the handover to be in the Civil Affairs Office, it would be hard to make that work. Also, not all of the cities with SWI’s even have hotels for the parents to stay for those two or three nights. And I understand that. But it would be a lot less traumatic for the majority of the infants and toddlers who are adopted. Probably not for every single infant or toddler, but I think it would be better for the vast majority.
The older kids? If they’ve been properly prepared then spending a day in their environment with them would be helpful, but I’m not sure three days would be necessary.
I know that GG would have handled the transition so much better if we could have done that. Perhaps it would have even been enough to keep away the severity of her anxious attachment issues. She was attached to her caregiver, and she lost that. Suddenly. If it could have been more gradual, who knows how that may have helped.
I doubt TT would have needed three days, but I think a day or two would have helped her, too, even though she wasn’t in the least bit attached to any of her caregivers… she was used to that environment and I think it would have helped for her to get to know us on her turf.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
kellyo – i’ve read at least 30 books and if i had to have all but one erased from my memory that would be the one i keep! i didn’t read the entire thing since it goes through the teenager years and i don’t want to get ahead of myself.
January 8th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
One of my girls STILL has issues from being ripped from her foster family. It didn’t help that she was a bit older when adopted, too. The SWI director said he waited to make sure the children were healthy before adopting them out. Wish he had thought about the children’s welfare as much as the parents’.
January 8th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
I think how you meet your child and their personality also contribute to the how the adjustment goes, traumatic or otherwise. Is it quiet, loud, are lots of kids upset. Is there time for them to make the first move.
We met our girl, when there was a knock on our hotel door. She was crying because she was hot, hungry and had a cold. I took her from her ayi and my husband got her a cookie and bottle. She decided these folks with cookies were OK, calmed quickly and was pretty content from that point on. Was she attached, no. And while she was mostly content to the untrained eye. I knew she was not attached. So Maxwellhouse…………. perhaps that is what you are experience.
Again, folks were talking how attached she was as soon as we got home. Yeah she was happy most of the time, but slept like crud and wanted to sleep with us, we did and it did wonders to help get her secure.
She had the occasional melt down that appeared unexplained. Hated the car in the dark. Very hypervigiliant upon waking, making sure nothing had changed.
And hated large groups of kids. I think it had to do with the trauma of going back to the SWI from her foster mom before coming to us. For her it was like hey, last time I saw this many kids my world change and I like this one….
So yeah she was a happy kid from day one. I think it had to do with the fact that it was a very low key handover with just us in our room for the first 18 hours.
And it was the little things that made me realize she was getting more attached. Her eyes didn’t dart all over the house upon coming home or waking. When she said home or house it stopped being a question and became a statement. I could leave her with other kids. She slept through the night in her own room after almost 2 years.
Yeah even the happy kids need to go from these are some nice folks to hang with to this is my family. I loved adopting her, but what was better was at some point she adopted us.
January 9th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Again, great post RQ! I don’t agree with you though. As you say, every experience is unique and I think you forgot one point: perhaps some children just want to get out of the orphanage and the “slow process” would just be a torture. Our DD was in need of medical care, and the “ripping off” was just the better situation for her in that time.
As for the sleeping issues, it sounds like night terrors to me. That is as important to understand as the attachment issues, and it is VERY important to read and educate yourself about that too. BTDT, believe me. We’ve needed a specialist to help us, and I think everyone need to know how to deal with this, not just for your child, but for your own health!
Thanks again for that post.
January 11th, 2010 at 1:10 am
Anxiously awaiting your experiences on sleep issues and the conversation that follows. Our oldest will have been home three years next month and still struggles to go to sleep at night.