Information from a CCAA Delegation
The CCAA recently sent a delegation out to visit, and the country they visited has shared some of what they learned from the CCAA.
You can read what has been posted publicly here.
What does this tell us that is important?
- The NSN program is not going to increase in numbers of babies available. The SN program is going to continue to be the main focus of the program.
- They say a minimum waiting period of four years – but that’s where it is now. I guess it’s just confirmation the wait isn’t going to decrease any, but we all pretty much knew that.
- The backlog is reported at being around 20,000. That’s an important number, but we keep hearing different figures from different CCAA people, so I’m not sure how reliable that is. Last year some very high up people at the CCAA were saying it was anywhere from 12,000 to 18,000, depending on who was doing the talking. I think it’s probably down around 15,000 to 18,000 at this point, but I don’t think we have any way of knowing for sure.
- It is troubling to me that they seem to be saying that, while they do intend to continue grandfathering people in under the old rules, they reserve the right to decline a particular family if they choose.
- We’ve heard hints of that last part before – of the CCAA taking on more responsibilities, and that there could be a name change involved.
July 3rd, 2010 at 11:04 am
I just really want to know why they are still accepting dossiers for NSN……..I am feeling like we will never be referred a child via NSN with an LID of 11/2006.
July 3rd, 2010 at 11:28 am
So if I read this correctly the NSN referrals are not going to increase, but does that mean that they are not going to decrease either? Have we finally hit the low?
LID 10.2006
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Rose108 – that’s not at all the way I read it. They are saying the wait will be a minimum of four years, and they are continuing with their propaganda of why the NSN program is going to continue to slow down.
At no time do they say that the maximum wait is going to be four years.
It sounds to me as if they are trying to move as many people as possible into the SN program, and trying to discourage people away from the NSN program.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:06 pm
I’m just curious as to when they say 4 year min. Does that mean people that are starting now it would be for sure 4 years of waiting…It just blows me away that last year they were saying things would speed up some…They were hoping to get more orphanages for adoption. So have we seen any changes from the past couple years? Or is it mainly because people have gone in other directions. My guess is we will never see the month to month referrals again. Does any one know on average how many are referred each month? And compared to a few years ago…is that about the same?
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:21 pm
theadair6- It seems to mean AT LEAST 4 years for anyone waiting for NSN, starting now or started before. Right now, the longest wait is 4 years and 2 months, if someone were to be referred a NSN child tomorrow.
It just would have been nice if someone in CCAA would have said this stuff 4 years ago (When the wait was climbing, but only 17 months). At least then, I wouldn’t have told my older daughter to expect her sister in only 2-3 years.
I still believe that the wait for NSN children is NOT because they don’t have enough in orphanages, but because they want to keep the NSN children IN the orphanages, to grow up in China. It’s something most governments would do, but I still think it’s a cold hearted thing to do to innocent children.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm
The CCAA never said things would speed up. Agencies were telling clients that the CCAA said this. Agencies are always claiming things that the CCAA said which they never did.
Regarding the 20,000 dossiers. I have heard that from our agency, however, many others were reporting that the CCAA told them differently. There is no proof of that, just that the agencies claim to have been told.
A minimum of 4 years is just what it is, a minimum. It could be 6 years, 10 years, whatever. People see a number and stick that in their mind.
The CCAA never said that they would be hoping to get more orphanages to participate in adoption programs. Agencies, one again claimed that this is what the CCAA was going to do.
The only thing we know for sure what the CCAA said was what they have posted on their website. They have said that their are less children available.
The NSN program wasn’t going to last indefinitely. It is just not possible. People who we know that volunteer in SWI’s have said, depending on the area, there are no NSN’s babies being abandoned, and that they now only have SN’s babies and children in their care. There are certain provinces where babies are still available for IA. If you look at the referrals, they nearly always come from the same provinces.
Whether the parents are actually from there is irrelevant, the babies are abandoned there.
I also agree, that I do not know why they are accepting dossiers, but then they really don’t care as it is up to the agencies to stop accepting them. There are many agencies that have closed their China program.
I also believe that China knows there are many families who are willing to adopt SN’s children, minor and severe. They are focusing on this because they have many SN’s children.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm
thanks for sharing rq!
we’re lid the end of june ’06
i’m not very analytical – but really hope that we can get thru may and june in the next year
it is unbearable to think that i’ll still be waiting for my child next summer
i have so much to share – & can’t wait to begin life with our newest addition
happy 4th of july
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:39 pm
We are also end June’06 but here in NZ we cant change into the SN side of things, we havent got that option…or many other countries to adopt from..we have no choice but to take the NSN and do the waiting game…we just past 4 years now! Our other daughter will be 7 in the next few weeks..she was 3 when we started.
One thing I have learnt on this journey is that no one really knows what is going to happen next,it can speed up or slow down..no one knows but CCAA.
But I am sooooo thankful we have you RQ …so thank you to you and thank you to your family for sharing you with us.
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Propaganda is a most accurate word.
July 3rd, 2010 at 5:47 pm
theadair6 – i’m with you, as you know we will hit our 4 yr mark in 5 weeks…4yrs and 2 months sounds like heaven right now to me..oh how I would love to see my little ones face in 3 months.
RQ thanks for all you do!!
LID 8-8-06
July 3rd, 2010 at 7:58 pm
And the point where they are saying that PAPs for special need or older children need to be of a much higher quality than the normal NSN route is something the Australian authorities are taking on board, meaning approval is all the more difficult.
And yet the CCAA will still give waivers on certain rules, and parents can get grants or fund raise the public to adopt these children from other countries. Apparently a number of files on the Shared List are now coming up in Chinese, and our agency won’t even consider those ones – perhaps giving preference to agencies with Chinese staff or contacts in China?
Will supply and demand forces change the criteria that other countries use to approve people too? In the past China has made allowances to adopt these harder to place children, but now they want higher quality PAPs?
July 3rd, 2010 at 9:21 pm
My understanding about the criteria and their info on decreasing NSN… it really seems they want to have more people pull out their file or they will do it by applying the new criteria. Am I wrong?!?
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:00 pm
I’m also in NZ where as China7 said we don’t have the SN option available or really any other programmes. With an end June LID we are already over the 4 years wait. At the current rate of refferals (say 6 months to refer one month of apps) it will take another 6 years to refer the next years worth of applications ouch…I just can’t see how this is viable… surely something has to give??
The Australian webpage says…”Eligibility criteria: Formally, CCAA advised that applicants who sent their files prior to the changes to eligibility criteria in May 2007 can meet the old eligibility criteria. However, CCAA indicated that the criteria would be strictly applied and that there is still the possibility that CCAA may decline to accept a particular family’s file”.
This concerns me, it could be interpreted as everyone will be judged on the new criteria… anyone from Oz who can throw any light on this??
Really, really hoping for a good batch of refferals this month – we so need some positive news!
July 3rd, 2010 at 11:26 pm
It may be semantics but I think that care must be taken when referring to the adoption process as “supply and demand”. Children are not a commodity.
I can see why China may want to keep children in country, and am not convinced that it is unfair to the children. Many children are in good places. It would be best if China concentrated on improving the support available for taking care of orphaned children, rather than having to send them out of the country due to lack of resources and social misunderstanding in country.
It has been clear to me for quite some time that the program is in its waning days. Hard to understand if you are still waiting but very understandable for the viewpoint of Chinese politics and development.
It would be very beneficial for PAPs to read about current events in China and come to some understanding of the country as a whole not just as seen through the lens of the adoption process.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:54 am
I had an LID of 5/24/06 and when I was in the first stages it was about about 9 months to possibly a year wait and they kept increasing it. By the time I had my LID it was at 18 months! Well….those 18 months came and went and we did end up going special needs or I’d still be waiting!!! Our daughter has CHD-VSD and frankly…there is nothing wrong with her and she’s perfect and for us it was a good choice but know that for others it’s just not possible or just not a good fit for your family. The waiting is so difficult and I hope for peace for all who are waiting. It’s gotta be frustrating!
July 4th, 2010 at 2:53 am
I am curious as to why the Australian government perceives that only children with severe or multiple needs are on the shared list?
DD has CL/CP. That is all. Nothing else. A very bright, charming, affectionate 2 year old. Her file was on the shared list just about 1 year ago.
July 4th, 2010 at 7:33 am
Are they not moving faster due to the fact that in many years to come there will be something like 2 million men with no spouse to marry? That is what I read somewhere. Are they slowing down or just not moving faster due to this? I really think after waiting 3 years that we have decided to change to the SN part of our journey. Hoping that we will be home by xmas or early 2011 if we do.
Congrats to all who will see those faces this week. Big hugs to all..
11-23-2007
July 4th, 2010 at 7:52 am
Well that’s just great, not!
Ok I can understand that the CCAA can’t give a maximum waiting time but gee, to then advise that after waiting 5, 6, 7, 8 years you get to the top of the queue and they might reject you. What!
But then it gets worse. They want the agencies to ‘persuade’ people out of the queue and seek other options.
It reads to me that the CCAA is finding that the queue isn’t shrinking fast enough for them so they want agencies to do the ‘bad press’ part of the job.
Does anyone know if their agency has been briefed similar to the Australians? I wouldn’t have thought that the Australians would have huge numbers in the queue so getting rid of them isn’t going to help reduce numbers in any big way.
July 4th, 2010 at 8:05 am
And another thing, what do you think it means by the following quote from the Australian govt site:
“However, it is easy to place….children with ‘minor disabilities’ with foreign families. As such, these children are not a category of children most in need of intercountry adoption from China. ”
What is a minor disability to China? Does anyone have any evidence that children with ‘minor disabilities’ are being placed through the NSN line? Is that what they mean? Or repaired SNs being referred through NSNs?? (BTW I wouldn’t mind that if it meant a huge jump in referrals each month).
Then it says that the CCAA is looking for ‘high calibre parents’ for SNs children. Have I missed something? Has the CCAA changed the criteria required to adopt a SNs child? Last thing I heard was that the CCAA was going to reduce some criteria eg financial, to encourage adoption of older/more severe SN cases.
I am confused and concerned. We were starting to investigate a SNs adoption but with everything that I am reading lately about the China SNs program e.g. poor/incorrect medical information and now this, I am having 2nd thoughts.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
I think that they are going to be more picky where SN’s parents are concerned because they can. When we adopted our SN’s ds not many people were adopting boys, older children or children with SN’s that maybe considered more severe by standards back then, but in todays placement considered moderate.
There are many more people wanting to adopt SN’s because in many cases this is their last chance to become parents. We adopted SN’s because we wanted to. Some parents are not prepared for taking on a SN’s child and there have been incidences of abuse.
The CCAA has never said it would reduce any criteria with regards to adopting older SN’s children. There is a possibility that they will consider HIGH CALIBRE single parents to adopt older, harder to place SN’s children. There are many singles that have professional careers within the medical field that would be ideal parents for some of these children. I have heard that there is a pilot program somewhere, and they are awaiting on approval from the CCAA. The single parent is in the medical field.
The CCAA doesn’t consider a child who has had corrective surgery without any future complications to be SN’s. I am not sure what the clarify them as. Our ds SWI says that if it is surgery that fixes a problem that a child may have with no complications for the future they are considered NSN’s or
minor SN’s. I do know of people who bought children home with scars from operations that corrected their medical condition.
China is probably going to focus on children with more severe SN’s. Where friends volunteer the want for boys is not as great as it was, and the younger generation have their own social view points. Infact, in some provinces girls are preferred because it is the man’s family that pays for weddings.
July 4th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Sounds to me like the CCAA is finally admitting what we already knew. The fluidity of their rules, though, might discourage some parents who might otherwise adopt through their SN program. The economy is already having an impact on families considering adoption. Fear that the rules will change in the middle of the process will only add more discouragement. I fear many children will not find homes as a result. But at least the CCAA is being honest. MIght as well go into this with open eyes.
July 4th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
I know it’s not pc, but I will never join the camp of “good places” and geography trumping a forever family. Others will disagree, but I will always feel that way. And yes, I have educated myself as to the feelings of some adoptees.
July 5th, 2010 at 9:25 am
“But then it gets worse. They want the agencies to ‘persuade’ people out of the queue and seek other options.”
“It reads to me that the CCAA is finding that the queue isn’t shrinking fast enough for them so they want agencies to do the ‘bad press’ part of the job.”
Yes, I do think this is happening, and I think they were told to do it.
July 5th, 2010 at 10:00 am
2qts4me Says
“The CCAA doesn’t consider a child who has had corrective surgery without any future complications to be SN’s. I am not sure what the clarify them as… I do know of people who bought children home with scars from operations that corrected their medical condition.”
Hi, I would really appreciate if you could elaborate on how you know that the CCAA doesn’t consider children with corrective surgery to be SNs apart from the information given from your DS SWI?
I couldn’t find anything on their website so I am really interested to find out the source of this as it will influence our decisionmaking. It does seem strange seeing that children are still being referred through the SN line even though they may have had some medical intervention already eg club feet that have been casted or operated on.
I’ve been involved with adoptions from China since 2003 and I haven’t personally heard of such cases ie repaired SN through the NSN line. My son was injured at the orphanage but I don’t consider that to be a SN just an accident. Is that what you mean?
July 5th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
If CCAA would consider high calibre singles for older or older minor SN children, that would be FANTASTIC. How I hope that comes true – so many older boys that sit on lists I druel over especially when they look like my DD!!!