Special Needs Discussion – Adopting school aged children
Today we are opening the comments up for those families who have adopted school aged children.
Once again, I encourage you to share whatever you feel someone who is considering adopting a school aged child should be aware of. Please be specific as to what (if any) issue(s) your child has, how old they were at adoption, and how long they’ve been home.
In the case of multiple special needs, I encourage you to write about everything in one post and then copy and paste it into the relevant days. If you post two different comments in two different days then I would encourage you to link to your other comment (right click on the time of your other comment and click “copy link address”, then paste it into your new comment) so families can put both together in their head.
Feel free to share the tough stuff as well as the good stuff. It’s not going to be seen as complaining, it’s going to be seen as telling it like it is.
I will again encourage those who are open to it to share your forum name, in case someone wants to PM you with specific questions. Or if you aren’t on the forum and would like to leave another way for people to contact you then feel free to do that as well. If you aren’t comfortable doing that then no problem – we’re happy you shared and you aren’t obligated to answer questions. But if you are open to it then I’m sure there are some who will appreciate it.
Everyone please remember the Be Nice rule. Comment on your own situation without commenting on those who have commented before you.
The other posts in this series (so far) are:
- Cleft Issues
- Circulatory and pulmonary issues (including heart and blood conditions)
- Bone, muscle, and joint conditions (including missing limbs)
- Craniofacial (other than cleft), to include issues with hearing and eyesight
- Neurological issues and Brain Trauma issues
- Urogenital and Gender issues
- Issues having to do with the digestive system
- Infectious diseases
- Developmental delays
March 23rd, 2011 at 9:05 am
Two of my three children were adopted at older ages (10 and 4, respectively). Since this discussion is about school age children, I will only post about my 10-year-old.
When I met her in China for the first time, I was pretty amazed at her independence and self-sufficiency. There was a day during our stay in Hefei when we were “free,” and she took us to the local park/zoo on foot! She knew how to find the best snacks, how to barter lower prices, etc.
The orphanage was not very upfront about her background. I had been told that she “visited” a foster family on weekends, but had lived in the orphanage most of her life. As it turned out, this was not true. She had been found by the gate of the Civil Affairs office at around age two, and was brought to the orphanage. She had surgery to repair a VSD at age three, and was subsequently placed in a foster family. The parents were an older couple (she called them “my Chinese grandma and grandpa” and another girl from the orphanage was also fostered in this home. They were apparently pretty well-to-do. The foster father was a school principal, and my daughter attended an excellent local school while she lived with them. They had a maid and a cook.
My daughter lived with these people for about four years, and was brought back to the orphanage when she was around eight. I learned much later that she was physically and sexually abused in this home. She was also beaten and emotionally abused at the orphanage.
When she arrived in the U.S., I placed her in third grade in our local elementary school, rather than in fifth with her age-mates. It proved to be a good academic placement. She was excellent in math – way ahead of her third grade counterparts, and it gave her the opportunity to be “the best” at something. She learned English quickly, and tested out of ESOL by eighth grade.
We had a very long honeymoon period, or so I thought. As it turned out, she was cruel and abusive to her younger sister behind my back (I adopted out of birth order, and there was a six year age difference with my younger child). As she progressed through her teen years, she became much more difficult and oppositional. She stopped working in school, had a lot of difficulty getting along with other kids and her cousins. We went to therapy for awhile, but she refused to work or communicate in therapy, so we eventually stopped going because it was not productive.
She graduated from high school a semester early at age 19, and immediately moved out of the house. She is now almost 21, and is currently living several states away with her 41-year-old boyfriend she met online. He is quite affluent and very good to her. She lucked out. They were home for Christmas and it was a lovely visit.
I believe that she is fond of me, but do not think she truly regards me as a parent. She has no idea of her role in a family, or how to live in a family. There are definite attachment issues, but not full-fledged RAD.
If I were to offer any advice to those considering the adoption of a school-aged child, I would recommend NOT adopting out of birth order. From what I have seen, the older children that have done the best and are the happiest are those who are “only” children or have much older siblings. These kids have waited a long time for a family, and they deserve to have the opportunity to be “the baby.” I would adopt another older child (if I were not 52 and broke, LOL!) but he or she would definitely be my youngest if I were to do so.
March 23rd, 2011 at 10:58 am
We adopted our second child when the he was 7 1/2. This was an out of birth order adoption for us and the other child in our home was almost 3. For us this worked out very well. Our 7 1/2 year old had lived in a room at the orphanage with mostly toddlers and preschoolers and had not attended school. His history included severe neglect and physical abuse.
When he first came home he was emotionally like an infant although he had “scary” great self help skills. He has made signficiant progress and now at 9 is doing first grade level work. His language skills have progressed well. His emotional needs are still significant, but we are seeing progress.
For a long time we directly supervised the children when they were together. We did not allow them to be alone together for almost 2 years. We still do not allow them to be alone together unless an adult can hear them. This is a safety precaution we have decided is appropriate for our situation.
Attachment is still growing. It is something we continue to work on. Our son does see us as his parents, as the people to turn to, but it has taken awhile. Also, the attachment from the parent side has taken longer too and is still growing.
One thing we are very thankful for is that we do have younger children in our home. Our son was so delayed and hurt emotionally that the needed to be parented as a way younger child. This was easier for us we feel because we have younger children in the home. He also gets a lot of nurturing and great play models from his younger siblings.
March 23rd, 2011 at 11:49 am
It’s almost 2 years since we brought home DD (almost 5) and DS (6) from Taiwan. They were both in foster care, but separate foster homes.
DD was easy from the beginning. She did grieve for her foster family, but she came to us willingly. DS was a different story. It was truly as if we were kidnapping him. Although he was hysterical leaving the pick-up site and during the ride to the hotel, he did calm down a bit after we got to the hotel. He was mostly ok during our stay and travel home. The real problems occured during the first 2 weeks we were home. He was angry and frustrated and was trying to hurt me all day long. I stayed firm in my dealing with him and tried to love him and hug him as much as I could. I would practically lay on him to calm him down. The thing is, though, he woke up the morning of 2 weeks home and was smiling. He’s still smiling. There must have been a sort of acceptance on his part in which he stopped fighting us.
Both children had horrendous teeth. By that I mean they had to have most teeth pulled. The rest were filled, root canaled (is that a word?), capped. Their adult teeth are coming in healthy. We discovered DS had a hernia and an undescended testicle and needed surgery a few weeks after we came home. Both children handled their medical issues with grace and were happy to have the family comfort them.
I started the children in their age appropriate grade. DD entered Kindergarten and DS enterered 1st grade. They went through the motions of learning how to be good school children. They both repeated their grades the next year and actually were able to complete their work.
DD is great socially, but sometimes struggle with school work. She has low self-confidence, but is getting better with help from her ESL teacher. DS is great academically, but struggles with his social skills. He is getting help with the school social worker and is doing so much better.
We have 3 older bio boys and the 2 children bonded to them immediately. Besides those first 2 weeks with DS, we have not had any attachment issues to speak of. The 2 children are best friends and adopting school aged children was the best thing for us. I hope to be in the position soon to do it again.
March 23rd, 2011 at 12:26 pm
My one piece of advice – Learn everything you possibly can about RAD – Reactive Attachment Disorder. There are attachment issues – which I knew about – and then there is RAD – a whole different ballgame. Had I known the difference when SoccerBaby first came home, I know that our lives could have been so much better over the past two-and-a-half years.
RAD can be worked with, but you need to KNOW that’s what you’re dealing with. Family therapy is nice, but it’s not going to help the child with RAD. As our current team has explained it to me, it’s like taking a child with a hearing impairment and trying to treat it with reading glasses. The glasses may help the child read some really small print, but they aren’t going to help her hear any better. You need to know what you’re treating.
Hopefully this won’t be an issue for your child. But if it is, starting treatment right away can really make a big difference.
March 23rd, 2011 at 12:39 pm
We adopted our son 18 months ago when he was almost seven.
Background: We adopted out of birth order. We had adopted a couple years earlier a three year old daughter. Since I had bio twins, and was used to having children close in age (we also have two older girls(that everyone thinks are twins that are 16 months apart). I did not think much about our son being 10 months older….not much thought at all–in fact I wanted a son very close in age to his sister.
Our son had been in the orphange since he was two months old. It was a US sponsored orphange and we found comfort in knowing that his orphange was run by the same group that ran our youngest daughters orphange and she had transistioned and bonded wonderfully in the two and half years she had been home.
We took the whole family to China to adopt our son—8 of us. Four adults four kids. When we met him it was very clear he was a very self relient and smart boy. It was also clear he was not as keen as getting a similar age chinese sister as she was of him.
Personality:
They told us he was very popular at the orphange and was very well liked. That was clearly true becuase in the two schools he attends he is known by everyone and is very well liked by both girls and boys. He is outgoing and friendly. His is a favorite with his teachers becuase of his happy and optimistic disposition and willingness to help others with out being asked. He is very loving and always is willing to share and help out others. He loves to help with everything and takes great pride in keeping things in order around the home (my other yahoos could take a lesson).
Yes, I keep waiting to see if this sunny outlook will change, but I really think he is just a really happy boy. He is able to articulate his life in China was not good and that they were mean to him and used to tie him up in a chair (he has the rope burns around his ankles) but that their “food was really good, he got to watch great TV and had many fun friends”. And that life is much better here in the US and that he loves having a family. He is constantly drawing pictures of happy families and with his family and writes in his journal about how much he loves is family and loves living in California. He is a boy whose glass is half full.
School: He was not in school in China and was not exposed to much. We started him in Kindergartern instead of first grade. I was going to keep him home for the first couple months of arriving the to US but after a week of taking my other kids to school he started crying and asked in Chinese why he was being punished and not allowed to go to school. So we started the very next day — with no English in K. In just six months he went from knowing no english to being the top student in math and reading (english) in Kindergarten. He is very very driven and very very competitive. Which brings me to my next heading…
Family Dynamics:
As I mentioned we adopted out of birth order. Our son adores and apparingly loves his older brother (twin) who is three years older. He is respectful of his older sister (twin) who is a also three years older. She is the alpha of the family and thinks she rules the roost and he has figured out how to work with her and fly under her radar. He is a very good read of a situation and seems to know how to relate to other kids personalities. He will play happliy with his older brother and with his older sister when she grants him permission. (working on her personality is a whole other issue).
The real and only challenge we have had with our son is his relationship with his close in age younger adopted sister. They have a love hate relationship. When they play well they play tremendously well together but when they fight it is tear down the walls fighting. They are fiercly competitive with each other about EVERYTHING. He loves to torment her by pushing her buttons on issues he could care less about just to watch her get upset and cry. It has become sport for him to watch her get upset. They race for everything, like getting dressed, doing math problems, cleaning their rooms, getting out of the car first…ect. It is not healthy as the sneakiness creaps in as a way to overcome his sister. We are tackling this head on, but it is not easy. I have them in separate classes and do not let them sit at the same table for homework. I stagger their school work and if he does not win he gets teary eyed. He is only this way with his youngest sister. She is constantly trying to get the upper hand and he is always working to be one step ahead.
I think in the long run they will end up being close (fingers crossed) but it is very painful to watch. There is no physical abuse but mental torture of the youngest. She used to be mellow and know she too is diehard competitive with her brother. It has changed her happy go lucky attitude into one that would rather die than lose to her brother. With four older kids 28- 10, I have never had to deal with the nasty competitive thing. It has been very tough on the family dynamics as we learn to navigate and help develop pathways for conflict resolution.
In hindsight, I think I would have respected birth order. I think if we would have adopted a son that would have been the yougest, our yougest daughter would still have her sanity and our son could have enjoyed being the youngest in the family with out any competition. While it may not be an issue for some, for our family, I believe there is a logical reason for the birth order recommendation and had we adhered to it, we would have a more peaceful home. I am optimistic that we will have one once again.
Medically: both of our children are cleft affected and our sons cleft was repaired when he was around 2 in China. We did a revision this past december and he was misserable for three days and then popped right back to his old self.
In summary, we have been increadably lucky with both of our adoptions. Thankfully our children did not read any of the adoption of older children books that are out there. Our adopted children appear on all accounts to be bonding well and are very loving and nurturing to family, friends and animals. In looking at what we could have faced, I guess the out of birth oder competitive thing, is one of the more lesser issues.
If anyone has questions they can PM me samba2nite
samba in sac
talesfromthebigtomato.blogspot.com
March 23rd, 2011 at 2:48 pm
I am sorry, in my second paragraph above I meant to say at the age of 10, not 9. Our son has been home 2 1/2 years.
March 23rd, 2011 at 2:59 pm
RQ, thank you so much for this series of special needs discussions. It’s very important that each family go into an adoption knowing exactly what may or may not happen and being prepared for the unexpected. My husband and I are beginning to talk about special needs adoption, and I find this all very helpful. Thanks again.
March 23rd, 2011 at 4:11 pm
I wanted to add that the issue of school placement can be a very difficult decision when adopting a child of six or older. In the early grades it doesn’t matter so much….whatever works academically will be fine. But as children grow and mature, the issue of being much older than grade-mates can cause sensitive social issues. My daughter was two years older than most of the kids in her grade, and she hated it. If I could do it all over again, I would have placed her just one grade behind her age-mates, not two. It might have been more difficult academically, but it would have made for fewer social problems in the long run.
One more thing….the “honeymoon” period with older children can be deceptively long. Others have posted that their children are doing fine despite having been adopted out of birth order, or coming from lifelong institutionalization situations. I hope for their sakes that this is true. I thought it was true in our family. But unless you’ve lived through the teen years, you may be completely unaware of serious issues that will surface as time goes by.
March 23rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Hi All. My daughter was 7.5 y/o at the time of adoption in 2008. She was born w/congenital ptosis, but that was repaired after 5 months home. I’m single and am ‘older’. Interpret that as you will, but I remember Captain Kangaroo. The trip to China was the hardest experience (& most rewarding) of my life because my daughter did grieve mightily. I’d read the books, prepared for the worst, & totally hoped for the best….but met a sad little girl. I interpreted her reactions as normal, to be expected, and explained it all as: If she loved before, she can learn to love again. In China and in the U.S. I used interpreters to speak to her and assure her of my concern and care. I also used them (family friends from China) to tell her she HAD to wear a seatbelt or else the blue lights might be flashing for ME! LOL!
Life has been great. I have a blog if anyone cares to read about how we’ve made it through love, life, and tears up until today. The older posts, obviously, were written while in China and chronicle events to the present — as IF you don’t already know that. Hello?!
I’d adopt again in a heartbeat…an older child. I’ll continue to stalk the lists and seek wisdom as to what the future might hold.
Best to all. Vicki
http://waiting4emily.blogspot.com/
March 23rd, 2011 at 6:29 pm
I will second mallmarie on the long honeymoon period. I think for many it can be quite shocking when 6 months, a year, or more later that significant challenges begin to surface out of the blue.
Although it was challenging, we were happy to see this change because for us we saw this as progress. Now we could really get to know each other and begin healing. We see this work as very long term.
March 23rd, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Thank you all for posting……… I know we are done with babies here……. But I feel there is another child in my life…………..
paying close attention here…………….
March 23rd, 2011 at 8:17 pm
I adopted my daughter from Russia in April 2010. She was 12 when I adopted and is now 13. During the first 3 months I felt like I had made a mistake. She challenged everything and wanted to go back to Russia.
She came from an orphanage that did not have much adult supervision, but the staff was very loving and did their best. She was sent to the orphanage when she was 6 due to neglect. My daughter is extremely intelligent and really had a problem just relaxing as she wanted to control every situation.
After 2 days home from Russia I posted a sign on the refrigerator that said “Rules for a Happy House”. All of the rules had to do with kindness and respect. If she broke a rule she had a consequence. I was very consistent and positive and she slowly learned that she was not the boss. After 3 months she became a different child. She was more relaxed and started to sit next to me and lean on me when we watched TV. The bonding really seemed to start at that time and she became a chatterbox and wanted me around all the time and would pout if I had to go somewhere without her.
Now almost a year later we are doing great. She is an A student and is in all regular classes. She is even in advanced math. She loves her family and every month she seems more attached in a healthy way. She is happy, has friends, and loves school. She also loves to talk and trusts me enough to tell me about her past and what she is feeling. We still have a lot of work to do, but adopted her was the best decision I ever made. My name is Dreamchild if anyone would like to pm me.
March 23rd, 2011 at 8:57 pm
HI,
THis is a very interesting topic. I have to say that adopting older children here in Australia is nigh on impossible although it has been done. I met a gorgeous young lady who was 13 and had only been with her new family for six months. The new family were Australian Chinese citizens and that pretty much sums up why they were allowed a much older child.
We are not allowed under any circumstances to adopt out of sibling order. All children adopted need to be at least 12 months younger than the youngest sibling in the family.
So that takes care of issues about sibling order. I must admit that this is a good thing, and I can understand why our Adoption departments have done that. In saying that, our adoption departments here don’t like adoption at all, let alone older child adoption and we have had a full on fight on our hands to be able to do so. We even met with the Attourney General of our country only to be asked if we had considered adopting from Africa because and I quote “they have lots of kids there”. AT the time he said that, Australia had suspended it’s only african program. We have had to fight with government departments and a lot of completely indifferent officials. Its been long and exhausting, and now from look of the situation in China, out of reach.
I grew up with two sisters from South Korea who were older child adoptions, and yes they were all bought into the family much younger than myself. One was 4 and 9 months, the other 6 and 9 months. They are extraordinary girls and have become amazing women and I love them both very much. Its because of them that we decided that our second adoption should be an older child adoption.
But I have to also say that RAD is not a joke or something to say to frighten would be parents. Its very very real. MY brother, who was a 12 month old infant when he was adopted from Brazil, had it and believe me when I say that the effects of RAD have been devastating on our entire family.
There was no research available on RAD when my brother was tiny, that all came out when he was 12. There are real issues attached with RAD and every parent needs to be well read on the subject when you get your child. It happens and it can be fixed with lots of love and care, and sometimes professional help.
I am glad that some of the folks here commenting talk about long term solutions. Long term is something that needs to be tattoed in our brains, whether it be infant adoption or older child adoption. Nothing will happen over night. It will all take a long time and being sensitive to the needs of older children, fitting in with them, being mindful of everything that they have lost and understanding their grief … will go an awfully long way to building a happy family.
March 23rd, 2011 at 10:58 pm
I hope this works. We have adopted two SN DDs both school aged at adoption. I have tried to link my two other postings related to DD#1′s strabismus and developmental delays with both girls
http://chinaadopttalk.com/2011/03/22/special-needs-discussion-%e2%80%93-developmental-delays/#comment-76060
http://chinaadopttalk.com/2011/03/17/special-needs-discussion-%e2%80%93-craniofacial-other-than-cleft-to-include-issues-with-hearing-and-eyesight/#comment-75987
Okay, so here I go again…
DD#1 was 6 1/2 years old when she came home in January 2009. She should have been an older kindergartener because the cut-off birthdate in our state is July 1st and her birthdate is August 19th. We believe that she had been in the same foster home for five years, from the time she was 18 months old.
We felt very well prepared for what ifs from the required reading, agency required classes, and Hague required training (we were a transitional family). Good thing too, because I think DD#1 read all the same books we did!
DD#1 was a little shy when we first met, but by the time we left the Civil Affairs Office we all walked out hand in hand. From day one, we were her Mama and Baba. We had a deligtful little girl – laughing, smiling, and funny. We played together and watched DVDs in our hotel room.
Bonding and attachment were going so well…too well in many ways. She insisted on being carried everywhere we went, or else she’d throw herself down on the ground, kicking and screaming until we picked her up. Day Two she started testing limits and pushing all boundaries and just continued to increase as the days passed.
We were alone in province with just our guide and driver. She loved all the attention focused on her. When we met up with our travel group in Guangzhou, she did not like that we could talk with and understand these people nor that they took any attention away from her. She was always at her worst when we were with the group.
Her behaviors in China – The carrying continued and she added faking sleep so she was total dead-weight to carry. It was right before the Chinese New Year so many places had orange trees as decorations. She would attempt to pick the oranges off the trees. She became horribly wild in Jordan’s shop grabbing at everything. My DH had to take her out of the shop and restrain her while I paid for our purchases. She kicked and screamed at him in Chinese, “I hate you! You are not my dad.” She hit, scratched, ran away laughing at us, and even spit on DH’s head once.
Fortunately, we were able to view her negative behaviors as positive signs that she was trying to test our love and committment to her. That and we already had four stirong-willed homegrown kiddos who had broken us in as parents.
The 13-hour plane ride home was tourture! She would only sleep if my body was twisted to fit her twisted form. If I moved, she screamed and cried. HATED the seatbelt.
Once we were home, she started settling into family life. She loved having her siblings doting on her and manipulated them to get what she wanted. She could cause tons of grief and turmoil in the house by who was her favorite of the day…and she knew it. She and the former baby of the family who was 8 years old had a lot of struggles for the entire first year. They still mix like oil and water just because they are so much alike. However, they are also fast friends and great playmates.
We were home for a week or two before real grieving started. Her grief was just as intense as her testing. She would be set off if she didn’t get her way or was told “no”. Then she would head for the door in a rage, bound and determined to walk herself back to China. I had to cradle her and restrain her while she cried, kicked, screamed, and cursed at us in Chinese. A typical fit could last over an hour. Then when the switch flipped, her tears became frightened as she cuddled in close needing to feel loved and safe. Usually these fits hit in the early evening just like a colicky baby. We ate a lot of fast food and take-out because I couldn’t cook dinner and help her through a fit.
Church was incredibly difficult for her and she began to have a weekly fit every Sunday at church (sorry don’t mean to bring up religion, but its just part of the story). DH felt it was important for her to fit into our family’s routine. She couldn’t sit through worship without trying to see how loud she could scream during prayer time. She couldn’t sit quietly with us in an adult class. Kids’ classes and worship time was too difficult because she didn’t understand anything. She was just wild. So I ususally ended up sitting and restraining her outside the preschool classes where nobody cared how loud she screamed. (20/20 hindsight – I think I would have stayed home for the first month or two. Until she settled down some) Finally we found a Pre-K classroom that worked well for her, but DH or I had to remain with her at all times.
The fits slowly began to decrease in intensity and duration until the disappeared within the first couple of months home.
Food issues were HUGE! At first she hardly ate anything which left me fearful for her health. Gradually her tastes have changed and continue to change. She still loves to try to torment me by telling me that her foster mom is a better cook than I am. (Doesn’t work).
Two years later, she still misses her foster family. Memories have begun to fade so that she remembers mostly the good parts. Over time, even before she had much language, she has shared bits and pieces of her former life. Her foster home sounds like an abusive environement by US standards. Her foster mother often hit and slapped her. Her foster father hit her mother. A grandfather has also been described as being hateful towards her. Oh, and she has detailed knowledge of her foster parents intimate relations…DETAILED! I have questioned her, carefully, when she’s been in a sharing mood and she has denied ever experiencing anything personally.
Now for what I think is one of the hardest parts of adopting a school-aged child – SCHOOL!
We came home with a six year old who was behaviorially more like a two or three year old. I called the school district looking for ELL help the first school day we were home. Their answer was to enroll her. Her days and nights were still mixed up!
We decided to hold her back a year in school. After about one month home, I found a local preschool that had an opening and agreed to work with her. It was a more hands on environment which was wonderful for her.
The school district finally agreed to evaluate her like an incoming kindergartener with a translator. She performed horribly for the test but walked out with one handful of candy bribes and the other hand filled with toy prizes. All the adults agreed that they had just met a very intelligent master manipulator.
She was enrolled in the summer school program with the ELL staff and kindergarten teacher she would have in the fall. She did very well in kindergarten but quickly figured out that she was too old. She’s still made at me that she is not in her proper grade level.
After a couple of months in first grade this year, we chose to pull her out of the public school and place her in a private school with her older brother. It has been a good move for her. She is in a smaller class with more teacher supervision. In the public school, she had conned her teacher into thinking she couldn’t read, but at the same time was going to be promoted out of the ELL program because she was doing so well, reading and speaking.
She’s an amazing kid! So funny and so happy! Love her to pieces! And usually she has me on my last nerve every day.
DD#2 just came home in January at seven years old. She has been in the orphanage since she was two months old and never received any formal schooling.
Yep, we did it again even after all the challenges. DD#1 and DD#2 have been total opposites in many ways. DD#2 greeted us on day one like she had been waiting her whole life for us to bring her home. She has not grieved at all. She has totally embraced her new family and new home. Maybe this is a long honeymoon, but it just feels like she is happy to be home and loved.
A HUGE difference between the girls has been in the area of school. DD#2 is SEVEN and should be placed in 1st grade right now. However, she is NOT ready for school at all!!! She is more like a pre-kindergartener. She doesn’t know how to use scissors, switches hand to do any drawing or coloring, and only scribbles on pictures. She is thirsty for language, wants to know what everything is called, and is quickly gaining receptive and expressive language.
I’m battling the school district again. They did some testing after she had been home six weeks, but it was already too late for a good evaluation because her languages were becoming a mixture. Officially, I’m homeschooling her for now. The school district would love it if I’d stop fighting and just enroll her, but I’m pushing right now to see if we can arrange a partial day ELL and the rest at home. She’s not ready for full day schooling anywhere. Our private school is also considering whether or not they feel they could handle her in the fall.
Grade placement still remains a huge issue. If she were placed in kindergarten next fall, she’ll have a driver’s lisence in 8th grade!?! I just don’t know whether she’ll be able to catch up to even one year behind?
For a child with no health related special need, we spent the first six weeks home at the doctor’s office at least once a week. We had her vision and hearing evaluated and had a battery of testing completed at the international adoption clinic at the local children’s hospital. She came to us with molluscum and had one spot that burst in China becoming infected. First stop was the pediatrician and her first antibiotic. She had an x-ray to discover that she was chronically constipated. Then her stool sample showed that she had Giardia…second antibiotic. Her entire body was covered with a flaming hot to the touch rash that ended up being excema. What caused it???? All her clothes are now washed in dye-free detergents. Then a lymph node became infected…third antibiotic. Once everything cleared up, we could start her vaccines.
The most frustrating thing right now, after two months home, is that she was never potty trained successfully for her bowel movements. The orphanage gave up. Now we know that due to her intestinal issues, she probably never had a normal BM. Her tummy was bloated and crampy. She may have had hard and painful stools.
Two months! It only got worse when we came home because US pull-ups and diapers hold so much that she quit telling us when she had to pee too. We’ve switched to cloth training pants and were making progress if I took her every hour on the hour last week. This week has been horrible! She now has terrible diaper rash. We’ve tried candy bribes and grumpiness. Nothing is working so far. I have now posted an American Girl doll picture in the bathroom and told her she can have a big girl doll when she wears big girl pants and potties in the toilet.
Sorry, but I don’t think anyone images bringing home a healthy seven year old and changing diapers. Oh, and I don’t even care about nighttime stuff. She can wear nighttime pull-ups or depends for the rest of her life! I just want the daytime pottying problem solved.
That was long. Wanted to try to cover everything. My blog links to our travel websites if you want more – http://onemorewade.blogspot.com/
Love all my kids. Love my little girls. I’d go back in a heartbeat to adopt another older child, if my DH hadn’t declared, “NO MORE!” These older children need families too. They are priceless treasures. However, I will tell you that parenting and older adopted child can be very lonely and hard. I’m so thankful for all my cyber-friends and mentors that have helped me survive the darkest days. Thankful for RQ where I have “met” many of them.
March 23rd, 2011 at 11:25 pm
We’re coming up on 4 months home with our daughter, adopted at 9.25 years old. So many of you can say “well, you don’t know what’s to come”…and that may be true…I know we’ll have our rough spots, as all families do, but I have good hopes for the future.
We also have a very headstrong 3 year old, so this was out of birth order too.
Big Girl came to us quiet and reserved. She never grieved outwardly, and she opened up over the first month. She opens up more every week – in spurts here and there. Note, she was moved to the SWI 6 months before being placed with us, and there was indication that she missed her foster parents there, so she may have gotten thru that first round of grief at that time.
She thrives in school. She has a little group of about 5 girls she hangs out with. She lvoes school. Even with next ot no English, so you assume she didn’t understand a lot, she got all satisfactories or pluses on her behavior ratings on her first report card. 2 teachers specifically spoke about how hard she tried in class.
She behaves a few years earlier than her age – I’d put her at a 7years old-for-a-few-months age in her behaviors. Placing her in 2nd instead of 3rd was the perfect call for her…she’s so small, so between those two attributes, she fits in well with these girls. She plays well with her 4 year old sister much of the time…she is willing to help her with no question if my hands are full etc. She climbs onto my lap for hugs constantly now. She told me she loved me about 3 weeks ago. She’s kind to the cats, never behaves roughly with them.
A few things worked in our favor: She was in what seems to have been a loving foster family for 5 years. We were allowed to Skype with her 6 times. When we were working on having the translator tell her what was going to happen when we got home, she waived her off finally, saying: “They said they would call. They did. They said they would come to China for me. They did. I trust them, you don’t need to tell me all of this.” I also have enough Mandarin so I could explain to her daily life stuff in the beginning.
Her English is amazing. I would call her functionally fluent in our home. If she can’t tell me something, she 95% of the time can explain herself around it to get it across. She’s wickedly smart, she’s 1/2 way thru the 1st grade spelling words already. She can read books like “splat the cat sings flat” with over 90% accuracy.
She likes to help us in the house. She does better when she’s allowed to help – she had chores in her foster home, so I think it makes it feel right to her. She loves to tell stories about her home in China when something here reminds her of it. She loves to try things – from bowling, to baked beans, to my computer, to folding laundry.
Now the negatives…she has NO sense of logic/cause-effect/problem solving etc…she never had anyone put any common sense in her head. I don’t think she ever had a puzzle. These types of things are the biggest dearth of education this child had. She tends to be very very loud – we’ve worked on that a LOT. She was never taught to think about the “why” of things. She was told things, she memorized them, and that was the education she sought out. She has no clue of the world around her – she didn’t even know *where* in China she lived, and she never thought to care where she lived.
So far, I’d do this again in a heartbeat.
March 24th, 2011 at 11:00 am
I am with MallMarie on many points.
The basics: we brought home our 10YO son (11 now) last summer. He was adopted out of birth order. We also have 12YO bio son, 8YO bio son, 5YO DS (home same time as 11YO son; dual adoption) and 5YO DD (home from China since 08).
We *thought* we had done our homework.We really didn’t go in thinking rainbows and fluffy clouds. However, I wish I had done more.
If you are thinking of adopting out of birth order, I HIGHLY recommend you find a therapist experienced in treating adoptive families (I use this word purposely as we have several family member in therapy now and all weren’t adopted) and talk to them BEFOREHAND. Sure we had some lined up just in case, but what if I had talked to them? I think my eyes would have been even more open.
Another suggestion: don’t assume your bio children will rise to the occasion so to speak. Yes we talked to them, yes they were excited, yes they were supportive of the *idea* but the reality has been different particularly with one.
Our family dynamic has COMPLETELY changed.
I have no regrets bringing home any of our children, whether from the hospital or China, but I thought I was prepared and in reality, I wasn’t.
My biggest suggestion: think LONG AND HARD before you adopt out of birth order. Is it fair to anyone involved? Maybe not.
I would share more about school and all of that but honestly that has been secondary for us b/c we are just trying to keep the family sanity intact and monitor the feelings of all of our children.
Oh I will include this: we put baby monitors in every single room of our home. I was determined to thwart anything of an abuse nature before it got started. We also supervised for many months, really until very recently, but the monitors gave us extra protection and our children knew we were listening. We still have them in all children’s bedrooms and use them every night. We removed locks from certain doors as well.
I don’t mean to scare anyone but if you adopt older, especially if you have younger children than the adopted child, you better take precautions.
I would not adopt out-of-birth order again. I would however definitely adopt older again, just like MallMaire *think it was her* said, the child would have to be the youngest.
March 24th, 2011 at 11:02 am
I should have added we haven’t dealt with any abuse, but I was determined to know about it and early on if it happened.
March 24th, 2011 at 11:07 am
our agency does not allow adoption out of birth order and some countries do not allow it as well.
however, there are certainly people who have done so successfully!
i have no experience on this topic and I’m sure the experiences vary.
But, here’s what “Adoptive Parenting from the Ground Up” has to say (the same people who do the “Heart of the Matter; Because they waited seminars”) in addition to a link to an article from adoptive families.
_____________
“Families are sometimes warned against disrupting the birth order, which is adopting a child older than the youngest currently in the home. There are several good reasons for this advice:
- Children adopted through foster care or internationally come home very needy and will typically regress in their behavior. Adopting a child older than siblings already in the home makes it more difficult to re-parent the newly adopted child and give them the experiences they need.
- Birth order is one major way in which children identify themselves.Losing their position in the family can create much jealousy and competitiveness on the part of existing children in the family.
- Older children placed in a home with younger siblings may experience similar jealousy and competitiveness.
- Although not pleasant to think about, families must also consider the safety of the younger children in the home. Some older children may have suffered physical or sexual abuse prior to adoption and may act out inappropriately or hurt their younger siblings.
There are families who have successfully adopted out of the birth order, but even in light if their accomplishments, pre-adoptive families are wise to be cautious in considering this.” (page 10).
________________________
Adoptive Families
When Parents Adopt Out of Birth Order
Conventional wisdom says not to adopt a child out of birth order. Yet there are many reasons why this choice may be right for you and many ways to make it work. by Lois Melina
http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles.php?aid=814
March 24th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Oh my dear gawd….I’m starting to get sick of this drumbeat that all older kids are damaged abusers who will mess up your younger kids.
YES. It CAN happen. Of course. Does it happen in a majority of the cases? NO.
It’s more likely to happen with your kid’s gymnastics coach, little league coach, or a neighbor down the street.
Do you have to be vigilant? Of course.
And this about the kids losing their place. It depends…MY Peanut was an only child. No matter what, she lost her place. She was the oldest, the youngest…the ONLY. Now she got a sister. But you know what? She did way better than if she had gotten a baby sister. Waaaaaay better. She needs to be the baby.
Big Girl kept the place she was used to in her life in China. It worked for her. She’s willing to tell us what she likes and doesn’t like. She is loving with us. She can be snotty and has perfected the eye roll. She can get in little tiffs with her sis…and she will willingly pop up and give us a hug, say thank you, or help dry dishes too.
She’s been a great fit for our family, and we’re all better having her with us.
March 24th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
For us adopting in birth order was a bigger adjustment than our adoption that was out of birth order. I think specific family dynamics and individual needs play a role in that and we were not surprised by this. We made it through both adjustments, but it was much harder for our youngest child to lose her place as the youngest than it was for her to remain the youngest.
Each time we have expanded our family it has been an adjustment for all of us. It takes time to for everyone to figure out their roles and to work out the day to day logistics. I would very much like to bring another older child into our family.
March 24th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
With all due respect, SS, I don’t think anyone said “older kids are damaged abusers who will mess up your younger kids” except you.
Only one poster that I see above shared a very heartfelt and I think brave post about how her older adopted child had in fact abused a younger sibling. This IS something every PAP of an older child should at least consider and be prepared to handle should it arise. No ONE said it happens often or that it happens to everyone.
FWIW, I think those of us with blended families of bio children and adopted children have a UNIQUE voice that quite frankly is IMPORTANT for other families in the SAME situation to hear. It is a DIFFERENT transition, and one no one else can understand except those in the situation: those with bio and adopted children coming together. It is DIFFERENT and at the same time, just as unique and special.
I will just say this and wonder to myself why I ever even commented in the first place b/c now I’m feeling like I have to defend my post and that was not the point of this series. What a shame I say!
Can we not have a discourse without this happening? It was going so well … I just don’t understand the personal attacks and the out and out putting words in people’s mouths that were not ever said.
We all have unique situations but RQ specifically asked us to share “the tough stuff as well as the good stuff.” For some of us, adopting an older child has been tougher than for others and the last thing we need is to feel we have to defend ourselves or our precious families.
March 24th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
First off, Hoping…I did NOT say that about these kids. So don’t put those words in my mouth.
And I will NEVER chastize someone for sharing when it did happen to their family. It should be shared. But you have to admit that you went thru quite a few measures to assure against it (monitors in each and every room etc), others posted links and quotes and such.
BUT the main reason I posted this is that there have been threads like this in the SN room where people, self-admitted, have never adopted older and go ad naseum about how these kids MOST LIKELY will have been abused etc, how they will harm your children at some point etc. And that gets to me, because I see a real breathing face of an older child adoptee standing next to me writing out what she wants for lunch on a sticky note and just being a great little girl…and the reality is that there is an outside chance for this stuff for our kids whereever they go. The bus driver is much more likely a sex offender than my little girl. No I don’t let them play upstairs by themselves, but it’s been a bit too much sometimes what I’ve seen in other threads over time for my personal taste.
I take offense to being called out for making a shame of myself. And I’d really like to see where I “personally attacked you” and I made you “defend yourself”. I did nothing but put out a differing opinion. So I think you are being a bit over the top on that. And you never ever couched it in “bio-adopted blended families are different”. I’m allowed MY opinion about why it was better for my kid to have a big sis over a baby sis.
And that was the whole flipping point of my post (example on one of my points – I don’t like the generalization that you SHOULD NOT adopt out of birth order. Because it was the right answer for OUR family.) And each family will be different. So, I don’t see how that’s differing with your argument that your family was different than mine, right?
March 24th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
SS, I think monitors in every room is VERY reasonable and we did it on the advice of our SW. That is who gave us the idea in the first place.
I totally agree with you on someone staying the baby is best in many instances as DD definitely is a good fit for that role. And one of ours sons who had to give up that baby role when DD came home … well that was and still is at times a very difficult transition.
March 25th, 2011 at 6:47 am
For our family we have made decisions around safety that also includes monitors in all of the kid’s bedrooms. We also do not allow the kids to sleep in a room together unless they are all sleeping in a room with an adult. We have thankfully not experienced abuse in our home amongst siblings and hope to prevent it by taking these steps of supervision and monitoring.
March 25th, 2011 at 7:10 am
I am aware of at least two orphanages where it has been discovered there was/is someone in the orphanage sexually abusing the kids. Sadly, an abused child is more likely to abuse. Kids from those orphanages are much more likely to abuse younger siblings. I know that there is someone who has adopted a child from one of those orphanages who, if she sees someone considering adopting from that orphanage who has younger or similar aged kids, PM’s or emails them to warn them against it. This is based on the fact that no one warned her and her child was sexually abused by the new sibling, and the fact that she knows other people in the same boat who adopted from that orphanage, and because she knows from her older child that her older child was sexually abused while in the orphanage. At that particular orphanage it is the older children doing the abusing, not an adult. It’s apparently a pretty rough orphanage where the adults running the place believe in the old “survival of the fittest” way of thinking, so bullying (and worse) is rarely stopped. Children from that SWI have a very very hard time learning what it means to be a loving sibling. Unfortunately, from what I understand, that seems to be the case with a lot of SWI’s — not so much the sexual abuse as the bullying and the “survival of the fittest” attitude.
I think it’s a good idea to talk with others who have adopted an older child from the orphanage you are considering. Not sure it’s possible to know ahead of time if they are in foster care, though. I am aware of several families who have adopted an older child who was in foster care, and who discovered the child had been being molested by the foster father. I know this because they have contacted me asking what to do, who to report it to. My advice is to start with their agency, and that if they don’t feel their agency is being proactive then they may try hiring a translator and writing their own letter to the CCAA and/or the SWI and/or the police department with jurisdiction over the foster family (with everyone seeing who else received the letter). I’ve also suggested they might get the child on video talking (in Chinese and English, if possible) about what happened, in case someone is interested enough to want to hear what the child says. One family was going to try to go the route of contacting the US Ambassador to China for help, but I’m not sure how that worked out for them.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that all older children will be abusive to their siblings, but I do think it’s something that prospective parents need to be aware of, especially if they are adopting out of birth order… but not just if they are adopting out of birth order. I know of a family with a twelve year old boy who adopted a seven year old girl, and the younger girl beat the older boy up pretty badly a few months after coming home. She learned to fight in the orphanage, but the boy had never learned to fight.
March 25th, 2011 at 9:57 am
hopingfor08 – i learned a lot from your post(s) in addition to everyone else’s.
ITA that monitors in every room is reasonable and when i discussed the possibility of an older child adoption with outr SW she said the same thing. it is NOT an expectation of a new child abusing, but a precaution. and it’s our responsibly to protect all our children, which includes children already in the home. when we adopt a younger child we have an unknown past of a year…two years….three years…but the more years you add on are obviously more experiences both good and bad. it’s even more time we’ll never be able to share and know. there ARE predators out there and what better place to access children than working in an orphanage or fostering a child. happens in the US too.
the fact that this can and does happen doesn’t mean it happens the majority of the time, nor is it a slight toward another child. and it happens everywhere, right in our own backyards.
March 25th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
We adopted a nearly 5 year old child last year. She started kindergarten a few months after returning home. She was NSN and lived her whole life in an orphanage. The orphanage was not anything special (had no association with “Half the Sky” or similar type groups).
We switched our requested age range at one of our homestudy updates, because we didn’t want a big age gap between her and her older sister (also adopted from China, but as an infant).
At the beginning of the wait (when we expected a 12-month wait), the idea of getting a child older than 15 months terrified me. I was under the perception that older children, particularly those raised in orphanages, would have severe attachment/socialization issues.
As the process dragged on, we became less intersted in starting over with an infant (we weren’t getting any younger), and also became less interested in a large age gap with the kids. Luckily, my agency has a support group for families that have adopted older children. One visit with that group, sent us on a new path. I expected to see kids with lots of adjustment issues, but instead saw great, well-adjusted kids, and many happy families. My agency felt that about 10% of the older children adoptions had attachment issues, most didn’t. Our experience with an older child has definitely fallen into the 90% category. We might be experiencing a long honeymoon as other posters have warned, but I don’t think so.
We knew what to expect, after talking with other families who had adopted older kids, adoption professionals and doctors at international adoption clinics. We expected delays against her peer group (she was about 1.5 – 2 years behind typical peers, at adoption), but we also expected a catch up with her peers, albeit a long one. From everything I’ve heard/read, there is a 1:1 ratio of years in an international orphanage to years of “catch up”. Since our daughter was nearly 5 when adopted, we expect a nearly 5-year catch up. We have no reason to believe she won’t fully catch up.
Life hasn’t been a complete bowl of cherries, but if things had gone half as well as they have, we would have been happy campers. We’ve had our struggles with tantrums, endured her mourning for her old life, etc. However, we have loved helping her adjust to her new life. I have to admit, having an older sister to model behavior has helped out a lot, and has provided a great friendship for both girls…just as hoped!
I haven’t posted a lot of horrible experiences, because we haven’t had a lot.
March 26th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
One thing that I have been thankful for is that our son has always seemed open to us in the sense of attachment. Although he had not been prepared at all for his adoption (as we had been told he would be), he has always seemed to really want to be part of a family, to have parents he could depend on.
From the start he seemed to enjoy everything about life. He is interested in a lot of things and enjoys almost anything. He is generally a happy and easy going guy.
April 4th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
Just stumbled across this site. We already have a 6 yr old from China adopted at 11 months. We are considering a 12 yr old (although we think she is younger) who was presented to us by our dear friend in Beijing who works for our adoption agency from before. Apparently she is very calm and sweet and we saw a video on her and she was very choked up saying she wanted a mummy and daddy to love and protect her. I must say after reading some of these posts it has kinda freaked me out. But then I read good and bad before we brought Molly home with any kind of adoption LOL. I did like Strawberry Shortcakes comments and also like some other I read that were just kind of good points to be on the look out for. Neither DH and I think it will all be plane sailing but I do believe every case is different.