Trying to solve the Mystery
I have had enough people independently send me information that names the American agency in question that I do believe that this agency is getting referrals well before other agencies. Just to clarify, referrals come to this agency with the normal referral batches, but for LID’s ahead of everyone else.
I believe that the European agency with the December referral was just a fluke, I do not see a reason to believe that their early referrals were part of a pattern.
There is also word of a famous person in a European country who is in China adopting right now and they had a 2006 LID. However, they are apparently adopting a four year old so I’m wondering if perhaps they chose to go the SN route and that is why they are traveling now.
I also see no reason to believe that the CCAA is giving preferential treatment to those in their 30’s or those who are childless. For those who are misreading the CCAA’s site - read a bit farther down where it says “Article 8: The adopter may adopt one child only, male or female. Orphans, disabled children or abandoned infants and children, who are raised in the social welfare institutes, and whose biological parents can not be ascertained or found, may be adopted irrespective of the restrictions that the adopter shall be childless and adopt one child only.”
As to the “no way or we’d know about it” argument, it sounds as if the agency in question tells their clients from the very beginning to not go out on the internet or in real life and tell people their LID. And they are also to be discreet about things once they get their referral and once they are home. When they get their referral they do tell their friends and family but they don’t mention their LID. It is a smallish agency so we aren’t talking about a whole lot of referrals, either. The definition of small in the FAQ is “less than 25 per month”. I’m not going to define them further than that.
And, this has already been said but I’ll repeat it - there was another agency before the slowdown who said they got referrals early (and seemed to be a month ahead of other agencies) but it came out that this was just a result of the way they manipulated LID dates and not because of any favors from the CCAA.
In other words, where I’m at right now is that I think I can set aside all of the other reports of early referrals except for the ones from this one American agency. And I am now sure that this agency is getting referrals well before other agencies. Okay, so I’m sure of it. Now what?
I try to make all of my decisions as RQ as if I were still waiting. I know some have expressed a fear that this could be a huge scandal. I don’t really see it as being a scandal. If the CCAA were to be confronted with the information my guess is that they’d just stop doing it and neither confirm nor deny that it had happened in the past. This has nothing to do with impropriety where the babies are concerned, and it’s likely no one will care except for those waiting and the other agencies who are not getting this special favor.
So, again - do we do anything with the information? Do we just acknowledge that it is happening and sit on it? Do we accept that orderly lines aren’t really part of the culture in China and that this was probably a given that it happens? Or do we ask for fairness? I could successfully argue both sides of that one.
I’ve already received a few informed opinions and expect to receive more from people who I have personally asked for their input into the matter. But I’m interested in hearing how the rest of the adoption community feels about it as well.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
It seems to me you either refer babies “in order” of LID’s or you don’t. What makes me mad is saying you’re doing it in order and then not sticking to that. Of course, they can do whatever they want…I’m just saying consistency between what they say and what they do would be nice.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
You know I really think that quite possibly it would stop briefly until the hubbub quieted and go right back to business as usual. I am certain it has been going on for a while and they refer to who they want when they want in whatever order they want. I don’t think necessarily we have any say even if we want one . I am sincerely not concerned about this agency getting preferential treatment please give me an example in life where there is no preferential treatment of some sort. I am probably stirring up more trouble than I want for myself but it’s true. to be fair though the squeaky wheel does get the oil. I just am not sure this agency getting referrals out of order is really worth too much noise though.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
It seems to me you either refer babies “in order” based on LIDs or you don’t. What makes me mad is saying one thing (doing it in order) and doing something else (going out of order). Of course, they can do what they want…just looking for some consistency between what they say and what they do.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
I think this is a very discouraging development. Although not in line at the moment I know that one of the things that many people hold onto during this exceedingly stressful time is that as slow as the line might be there is only one line…people aren’t butting in…there is no special “pay more and get to the front VIP kind of deal”. To no longer be ale to say even that is just very sad in my opinion.
Would I like it to change? Yes. Would I like to see this agency stop getting preferential treatment? Yes. Would I feel bad for the clients of that one agency that would need to now wait longer? Sorry no. If I was running a different agency and I knew this was happening would I complain to the CCAA. Instantly.
The loss of equity in the China program is a huge thing in my opinion.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
As one of those who may be getting the “short end of the stick” on this one, I say leave it.
- The numbers are too small to statistically matter (they will have little to no affect on my referral);
- Raising a stink with China *may* put the adoptions of many other children at risk;
- Raising a stink with the Agency/US government does the same (all we need is another bureaucrat putting their nose in our business);
- If they are able to get these children into homes sooner, they should (although I question their motives);
I’m more concerned with the rumor (fact, now?) that our match is sitting on some desk waiting to be sent out when “the time is right”.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
I don’t think there is anything we can do about it. It isn’t fair to all the agencies, and the families waiting, but so be it. What can you do. If the numbers are small that’s good. Just wish I had picked the “Golden Child” agency for my own agency…..but I didn’t so I wait patiently. Good things come to those who wait.
Mauzzie
12/12/05 LID
September 24th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Hi all!
If this happened a lot, with various agencies, I’d probably be very angry with the CCAA and with any agency participating in such a thing. But since it isn’t big and thus doesn’t make much of a difference for those of us waiting, I just don’t care very much at all. I’m not surprised. Not at all. I just think, Good for them, those parents to be who happened to find the right agency. But if it gets bigger, there is going to be a lot of steam to blow off…!
September 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I was in a huge funk over this yesterday but today I just want to say “whatever” and wait for referrals this week. Here’s to hoping for big news!!!!
Adomom
September 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I don’t have a problem with an agency getting early referrals…
…as long as it’s my agency.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
I would imagine most of us decided to adopt from China for many reasons, one being a fair and orderly process, predictable etc. It doesn’t surprise me that an agency is apparently getting early referrals. As we get older we find that there is always another side to the story. We may not have all the information….after all this waiting, if for some reason we got an early referral, I would just keep quiet and feel lucky. It isn’t right but what can you do, and really for the children they just get a family sooner. All I can do is buckle up and hope for a big referral month. Come on referrals
September 24th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Unfortunately, for many years China has been the only IA country without the tainted bribery accusations attached to its programs. Russia, Kazakhstan, Guatemala….all have suffered through those accusations. In fact, during our first adoption our agency admitted that our fees went to bribing officials. I would hate to think China also fits this pattern. Maybe China has just been better at hiding it. I would love there to be a different explanation but I am doubtful. We already have heard about a “pay for information” system, which quite frankly is about a stone’s through away from bribery.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
I too believe that right now it won’t make a statistical impact because it is one agency with less than 25 a month. However, being a 12/5/05 lidder it hurts the heart a little but what bothers me more is us already being matched and just “waiting” because of some “ceiling.” I think stirring this up over 1 smallish agency might create some big problems for us, I could be wrong, I don’t know. It’d be interesting to find out why they get preferential treatment though!!
September 24th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
China changed their minds about charging for information. Most agencies now have the ability to log into this system and have not had to pay for it.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
I totally agree with edfknoxadopt, I don’t think that “stirring the pot” would make things any better/quicker for the rest of us. With a LID of 12/22/05, just hoping for a big month!!
September 24th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
I agree with Windthrow: The loss of equity in the China program is somthing that ought to be complained about.
I wish someone - an agency, or several agencies -would send a complain or at least a comment about this.
As for the babies, I cannot see that these get a family any earlier because of this differential treatment. The babies only get different families than they would otherwise.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Well, it’s not fair but who said life was fair? If I can assume that the CCAA giving preferential treatment to one agency does NOT affect my “spot” in line for the negative (pushing me back) then I don’t care what they do - the more kids they get out of SWIs the better. And since I will never know if this preferential treatment will affect my spot in line…..well, there is nothing I can do anyway. I am too close to adovocate for any type of formal uproar on the un-fairness of this whole system.
AT
September 24th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
It’s funny how these things evolve. First we talked about the European December LID referrals that were being celebrated and discussed on the European boards. And that conversation led to a few people saying that an American agency got December LID referrals, which led to the information about the February LID referrals, which led to all of this other information.
Had the European “mistake” not happened, it’s likely none of the other information would have surfaced.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I agree with edfknoxadopt and treefrog…don’t stir the pot. Eventually someone else will probably stir it for you!
Drew
LID 4/6/06
September 24th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I think we have to remember that we are dealing with an Eastern culture who do not work as Westerners do. We say when something will be finished and we expect it to be accomplished by that date. We are dealing with a culture that does not work by those ideals. We cannot be shocked by scandal or what what appears to be preferential treatment. We know this already happens. Asian families are expedited, celebrities are expedited and aren’t we all preparing to take ‘gifts’??
September 24th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
As much as I don’t like the situation, I would have to agree that it is best not to make a huge deal out of this. I think that comes from my deepest fear that the China IA program could come to a halt.
However, at least this agency’s secret isn’t so secret anymore.
This is such a tough week for everyone waiting for referrals. Hopefully there will be a good batch and most of us will feel a little better.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
First the question,
How much ahead is this agency, I would not imagine by much. The further out the harder to keep a secret.
Next, I chose China because it was the most efficient, predictable and reputable. It was not my expectation it would be completely problem free just better than most. I know it took a few calls to local senators to get my 171 off someones desk. Did I cheat, I don’t think so.
Finally, according to my agency, one agency got their referrals by mistake for all their Dec 05ers. Considered an isolated incident and mistake by the CCAA as per my agency.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
How do I feel? disgruntled, wish it were my agency. However, I doubt I would ever sign on with an agency who didn’t tell me LID as I like having lots of information.
I think if it were more pervasive, then there would be more scandal about it. Or, we PAP would just accept that it happens like we accept that it happens in other countries even if we don’t like it.
We’ve switched to the SN route, so it really only affects me for future. Now, I would LOVE to know who this agency is so I could tell others that they might want to consider it.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
BringingMeiHome
That is the thing though. Until today many of us were under the impression that celebrities weren’t expedited. As for china ancestry expedites, that has always been a formal thing that was very public. I also don’t buy this whole it is a different culture thing and somehow we shouldn’t expect to understand how the CCAA behaves. Agency after agency has been telling client after client that there is only one line. To find out this may not be the case is a huge deal in my opinion.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
I agree with those who dont want the “pot stirred”. It is a small agenecy. I cant think of one orginization or institution that does not have its problems. My social worker was over the other day and she said their agency may stop taking applications for Vietnam and Guatamala soon due to “glitchs in the programs”. She still believes that China is still the most reliable IA option out there. Its just another minor crack in a generally stable wall. And so the wait continues…and continues…and…..
September 24th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
All I can say is that if this has been going on for some time (or even just a few months), this agency has very loyal clients to follow the agency’s instructions and keep the sooner than expected referrals a secret. I’m suspect that this is really occurring unless those who know the agency have reason to believe that this agency would be given preferential treatment. Just doesn’t make sense to me.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I AM LEARNING TO BE VERY PATIENT. IT WILL HAPPEN EVENTUALLY.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
While I’m certainly not happy about the situation, I think that I am going to leave it to my agency (which isn’t the “Golden” one) to deal with it…or not. I am lucky in that I have a very communicative and PAP-friendly agency, and feel like they are watching out for the welfare of all adopting + adopted families. I get the feeling that they lurk here, so hopefully if they didn’t already know of this situation, they soon will and they can go from here. They are going to be much better prepared to make a decision that will do the least harm.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
How do we know this isn’t happening with other agencies? Maybe it is and they just aren’t telling..
Anyway, I wonder if part of the reason for the early referrals is that this agency was hit particularly hard with the slowdown and many people were jumping ship? Maybe China made a special deal with them to keep them afloat.
I do think it is unfair. We followed all of China’s rules when we applied and now we hear that they are playing with LID’s… and people’s lives. I think we have the right to be angry. But of course, there’s nothing we can do about it.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
But CMBJ - the point is that they are not sooner than expected. They expect them to arrive early. From what I understand, clients are instructed when paperchasing to keep a low profile so people won’t put together when they paperchased with when their referral arrives.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Well, it’s China! They do what they want with their adoption program for the most part. What truely can we do?. The Philipines program does not have a “line” and we accepted that whether we decided to go with that program or not. I think the hardest part is not being told upfront that this was/is the case for the China program. I think with direct knowledge of this, we would have been able to make informed decisions about our life choices. Now we have to adjust to this knowledge or try to change it, which with the latter, we never quite know how China officials would react to our cultures telling them that they are unfair. They have their own versions of fair.
I do not agree that this skipping ahead should be done without being told ahead of time. This was definitely a factor in my adoption choice. I think I would rather be blissfully ignorant on this one (at least it’s not 15 agencies or something… well hopefully). I would just rather be told, but again my Western thinking is showing! I feel like a Mr. Rogers’ song coming on… I Like To Be Told!
September 24th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
I’m pretty sure I’m about to be VERY unpopular.
I don’t think the adoption community should do anything, unfortunately.
All it will do is hurt the families with that agency.
The CCAA may get mad that the “secret” got out. They’ll take it out on the agency and the agency may go to great legnths to find out who spilled the beans.
If this is happening “under the table” so to speak, if it is brought to the attention of the higher-ups at the CCAA or the Chinese government it might start an investigation that may slow things down even more or maybe in a really terrible situation cause the agency to get their license revoked which does NOTHING except hurt those familes which just signed with that agency and didn’t have any thing to do with the polocies that agency sets.
It can’t have any happy outcome for anybody involved.
I am normally somebody who stands up and loudly declares that everything should be fair and equal, but not this time.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I agree with habstevens. I have a lot of faith and good feelings towards my agency and know they are well aware of this site. I feel this is probably an issue best left in the hands of the agencies. I am sure they are all discussing this as we speak.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
I’m starting to get a weird feeling about this. This agency was named on a Yahoo group this weekend, and was briefly discussed, and now those posts have been deleted from the group. Was this person directed by the agency to delete the posts? Were they in some way threatened? I don’t like this secrecy. I’m getting a bad taste in my mouth.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
But–25/month nowadays would be a very large batch. That’s 300 a year. The large china only agencies get these low numbers nowadays. I only hope that the numbers of LIDs for the smallish agency have dropped as well, relatively speaking to something less as well. And that their referrals only stay a few months out and don’t race on and widen the gulf. I chose China because of fairness and stability. I did not switch to Vietname because of the fact that some agencies get faster referrals than others so this hurts a bit–only because if they give preferential treatment for one, they’ll for another and its just a matter of time and I get further and further behind.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
waiting4Ash-
Dont worry…I think a lot of people are with you! I do like to choose my battles and this doesnt seem to be one worth taking on…
September 24th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
fjm - I figured it was obvious I was talking about less than 25 per month back in late 2005 and early 2006 (the time frame being currently referred).
September 24th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
I agree, I don’t like the secrecy. This has me unsettled. I wonder if anyone from the “special” agency is reading this site.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Here’s what i really want to know — WHY is this agency getting the preferential treatment? What are they doing that other agencies are not doing?
According to their newsletter, my large china only agency seems to give boatloads of money and support of all kinds of charities and organizations and orphanages in china. But i know for a fact that my agency isnt the one getting early referrals. soooo, if ANY agency would be held in good favor by ccaa, i would think it would be an agency like mine. but we’re not getting ‘ the treatment’. so i guess my point is, what is the mystery agency doing that is making them the golden child?
–are they doing lots of SN adoptions? (well maybe, but alot of agencies are)
–are they donating lots of money within china? (alot of agencies are)
–are they super speedy and 100% with their post placement reports? ( again, probably alot of agencies are)
THIS is what i am most curious about. The unfairness of it all is another topic, but right now, i’m just trying to figure out the WHY of it all…I mean what’s in it for China/ccaa to favor one small US agency and annoy everyone else?
September 24th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
If I were you RQ, I would decide after concurring with people with very long experience with China and the CCAA. For example, I would be interested to know what my agency has to say–the people who run that organization are people I trust.
But anyway as others have stated, as long as we aren’t talking about a huge trend, it isn’t that big a deal. What is horrible is the wait, right? And this problem is not responsible for that.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Hmm. I think I would say that I don’t expect the worst, but I’m simply not surprised by reports of preferential treatment. With a LID of May 2006, we also chose China for the same reasons everyone else did:Short wait, good reputation and most of all there were girls that needed homes. But those reasons have now changed, haven’t they?? But there are still babies that need homes.
I would fall on RQ’s expertise to help understand what can we expect or help to change and what can we expect to stay the same. I was told that this would be an emotional roller coaster ride, but this roller coaster has taken turns no one expected.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I agree with WaitingforAsh, and that’s why this is so sad. We just have to take it and we can’t do anything about it because the cure is worse than the illness. I just hope that its not widespread and part of the reason for the slowdown. Here’s a conspiracy for you: CCAA posts the results of one line on line at its site and there’s another huge line that isn’t posted–that might explain the huge slowdown that started overnight–I better stop before I get too carrried away.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
I guess we’ve solved the “mystery” of what to discuss between referral rumors.
LID 12-05-05
September 24th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
I wonder if Meg Ryan is one of those “low profile” people…? Rememer when all of the sudden she had a beautiful baby girl from China? I just assumed that she didn’t tell anyone that she was adopting so she didn’t have to field a bunch of questions, but maybe it happened really fast for her. Ugh, I’m so jealous!
September 24th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
I’m personally not that worried about it and I’m a 12/05′r. The people with the agency only know what the agency is telling them…unless we heard from the agency itself and they said “we get early referrals because….” I still think we’re missing part of the information.
Just seems to me if one person at the CCAA is going to risk everything for 1 agency they would be smart enough to realize they could probably suck in more. If it’s just some special favor between old friends…big deal. It happens everywhere and money isn’t always involved.
While I want my baby really really bad, I would be hesitant to go with an agency that knows something is wrong with it’s procedure (or they wouldn’t be telling you to keep quiet)…
Something just doesn’t add up about it.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Thanks RQ–I’m glad someone can see the forest for the trees because I can’t. Thanks for gathering the sad information.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I say … Stir the Pot!
Two reasons - If there is one, there must be more. Second, if it is the only one, then I would like to nip this in the bud. This IA program already seems to be going down-hill month by month; lets not let this become the next thing to worry about!
I’ve dismissed rumors of stuff like this for the last couple of years…could they too have been true?!
September 24th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Meg Ryan told when she started the process and it fell in line with exactly when she should have started it. I do not believe she cut the line.
Also, the agency she used is not the agency in question. And I’m only saying that because a few people have just assumed that her agency is the one we’re talking about and that is a wrong assumption. I won’t confirm or deny any other agencies, though, just that one because so many are assuming it is them.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
If an agency located in the U.S. is getting prerential treament, I’d sure like to know why, even if it is a small agency and even if the situation does not materially affect most people in line. If U.S. laws, including laws prohibiting bribery of foreign officials, are being broken by a U.S. agency, it is an important issue and should be reported.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
I think it’s wrong if this is really what is happening. If China communicates that they have a “first-in, first-out” process (with the exception of SN and Chinese heritage) then that is what they should do. No exceptions should be KNOWINGLY or purposefully made (I acknowledge mistakes do happen).
If something is wrong then it is wrong whether it is for 1 referral per month, 25 referrals per month or 250 referrals per month. If something is wrong then it is wrong whether it affects me personally or not.
I don’t think it’s inherently wrong for China to do referrals in any order they choose, but it IS wrong to say they are doing it one way if they are not actually adhering to that. It sickens me that an agency is knowingly doing this. The fact that they work to keep this such a secret shows that they KNOW what they are doing is not right. I’d have deep concerns with an agency that has this lack of ethics.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
I personally feel this is a HUGE issue. I think we are seeing the tip of the iceberg. Ethical adoption is so so important. Without ethical guidelines, its a slippery slope from adoption, to adoption with benefits for some agencies, to all out bribery for preferential treatment. Trafficking isnt too far behind. Situatuations like this give IA a bad name. I feel very strongly this should not be brushed under the rug. Unethical practices are what have led to many programs closing. Better to stop it now than to let it continues and spiral.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Yeah, I actually have to wonder about someone who would sign on with an agency that says to keep a low profile. There just is no way to feel good about that…at least all of us waiting the long wait can sleep at night. I really hope it’s a case of not having all the information. Maybe it is an agency who manipulates LIDs or something to keep their clients happy. I mean seriously, wouldn’t it be great customer service for an agency to fudge LIDs backwards by a few weeks and get what seem like early referrals for their clients? They’d have happy clients for sure! And who would be the wiser…I wouldn’t have noticed at all if my agency gave me a June 2 LID or a June 28 LID…they’d both seem reasonable to me based on when I sent my paperwork.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Good. I’m glad. I’ve always been a Meg Ryan fan and when the news broke about her adooption, I just assumed she kept her private life private and didn’t go around publicizing her intent to adopt. I’m happy to know that she didn’t get any special treatment.
I guess it is what it is. For the most part, we have all been waiting a long time, or many of you will be waiting a long time, and I have a feeling in the grand scheme of things–this won’t be but another bump on the IA road.
Our time will come….(I can not believe I’m saying this. If any of you knew me, you’d think I was losing my mind. I am the QUEEN of impatience!)
September 24th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
IMHO the issue is not worth the trouble that could come from exposing it and demanding fairness. I say leave it be.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
I don’t like this at all. Many people are voicing opinions like “don’t stir the pot.” I understand your fear, you don’t want anything to upset your adoption. But this is very unethical. It doesn’t matter (to me) if it is a small number a month or not, it’s still very wrong. I don’t think we should sit by just so we don’t “stir the pot.” It’s very unethical on all sides. The CCAA, the agency, and the clients. I wonder if they pay more, and how this paticular agency aquired this paticular treatment. I would like to hear more info about this. This really lowers my confidence in the China program. In the past few months I have heard of more and more instances where the CCAA has not been honest about certain things, it’s just dissappointing. I know their is corruption in every program - I am not naive. But I just wish that as adoptive parents, we actually cared enough to do something about it.
September 24th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
This isn’t fair and I’m the type of person who would normally say, if it isn’t fair, do something about it. Here, though, I’d have to say, let it go. Admittedly, I might feel different if I had a 12/05 or 1/06 LID. But from my position in the back of the line, I really think it’s best not to rock the boat. Why give the Chinese a reason to slow down the program to investigate?
September 24th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
If the CCAA is doing a special offer to that American agency…what else…we found out today about that …but then what else is done and that we don’t know…that scares me….
September 24th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
The bottom line is…we don’t have all the facts (RQ, maybe you know more but for those of us commenting, we don’t)… personally, it’s far too easy to assume the worst about a situation when we might be missing information (like both sides of the story). I’m in line…I have a super long way to go, but if these precious children are getting into homes faster…hooray! After all, this is about the children, not about us. I hate the thought of unethical behavior, but withouth certain proof, I think this is a very dangerous pot to jump into without ALL the facts.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
I think I have to know more to know whether to leave it be or not, although I’m leaning to leave it be. My gut feeling is that manipulating LIDs is at the root here - either simply on the agency side, telling their clients that their paperwork went in a couple of months after it actually went in, or on the china side (suppose someone over there could back-date their documents and get them into an earlier pile). I guess I’d feel better somehow about those two scenarios than if this were happening in the matching room. If it’s happening in the matching room then I think I’m really mad and that’s too close to a slippery slope leading to real corruption and trafficking. If it’s happening well upstream from that, then I don’t think I care that much.
And what I also want to know is if this agency is simply always some few months ahead or if they are ahead and getting further ahead with time. Again, if its the latter than I think I’m madder than if it’s the former.
(long time reader, first time poster, so I guess I care enough to make a comment)
September 24th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
I agree with many of you above. Please, let’s NOT stir the pot! I think that stirring the pot could only slow down the process for all of us. Think of our babies waiting for us today. They need us now and we need them now!
September 24th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Sounds like it’s their bat and their ball so what can you do , even if you could..which you can’t. m
September 24th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
I see both sides, something is just not sitting right with this, but if i were waiting, I would be hesitant to rock the boat….
I agree with the person/s who said let the agencies who are not getting preferential treatment lean on the agency who is. This is the time to let your agency do battle for you. Now, that begs the question how do those agencies find out? Not from me, because at this point I don’t have a clue who the “Golden Agency” is.
Lets hope we have some referral rumors soon to distract us from this distastful turn of events.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
AmyNicole, I agree. I am not so concerned with the fact that people are moving to the head of the line out of order. What I’m really concerned about is that there seems to be so much secrecy and cover-up about this. After this agency was named over the weekend as being associated with receiving Feb 06 referrals (and I’m assuming many people saw the name of the agency before it was deleted), and after the issue came out here, there was suddenly a flurry of activity to delete the posts which named the agency. Why cover it up? If it’s happening, then it’s happening. If something is above-board, it doesn’t need to be covered up. That’s where I see a red flag.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Here’s a crazy WAG - any chance at all the rest of the agencies will follow suit - ie, get “the rest of their Dec 05 LIDs” this month? Next month?
I guess what I am asking is: How many months ahead is this agency, anyway?
And: does what they get correspond to what the rest of us get, later?
I’m quite concerned… as a Dec 14 05er, we’re getting near to the end, and if they already matched to Dec 13th (was that all the Dec they had?) at this one agency, are the other agencies next to go that far?
I hope this makes some kind of sense - my mind is going in loops.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
To those of you who want to stir the pot — I just can’t understand. Please, this is my husband’s and my one chance to have a child. Please, please, please don’t ruin it. Please let it go.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
February. I’m told that this agency has February 2006 families who have received their referral.
How on earth can that be a LID manipulation?
September 24th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
I dont actually see it is stirring the pot. To me the other agencies should just ask if this is true and hopefully that puts a stop to it and equity for all returns. I can’t really picture how anything more than that could happen.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
February… this agency has ALL their LIDs up to February already?!
Holy COW!
Did they have other LIDs, late November or early December or January - did any get skipped within this agency?
And what do you think the odds of the rest of us (Nov-Feb) will get referrals this next time?
That is, do this agency’s referral show us a preview of our referrals- a pattern of sorts?
September 24th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
I am home with my child, but if I were waiting I’d say let it go because I’d be worried about endangering my adoption. I am very sure that the agency in question is reading this site, so they know that you know, and that may have an impact.
As for the European celebrity adopting a 4-year old, I am pretty sure that there are more kids in that age range placed through the WC program than placed through the NSN program. If the adoptive parent is from a country that allows the placement of SN kids, either through the WC program or as a CCAA match, I’d be willing to bet that their child was not placed as a NSN match.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
I also have to wonder about the people who sign with this agency. If I were told by an agency that they had a process that no other agecny had, received preferrential treatment, and to keep it quiet, I would go running as fast as I could for fear of corruption and impropriety. You also have to assume that some people agree to pay more than they might with another agency. I don’t know this to be true or not, but I assume it. If the agency is playing with the LID’s and misreprenting information to their clients, then they should not be allowed to remain in business. I see this as a US issue not CCCAA. If they have preferential treatement with no additional payment invovled to China, they aren’t messing with LIDs, and their fees aren’t atronomical, then I guess there is nothing to do. China will do what they want and will neither admit or deny it. There are so many angles. I wouldn’t mind them being investigated within the US for unethical practices. China is our of our control.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
I understand how scared those waiting must feel with the “rocking the boat” idea, but please try to see the big picture. Ethical adoption MUST occur. It is the ONLY way to ensure children go to safe homes in an ethical manner. If this agency is willing to bend rules on getting referrals, its not too much of a stretch to imagine they are bending rules in other areas. Ultimately, this hurts kids. This is a very big deal. I absolutely think, and hope, an investigation comes of this. There is a federal act that specifically prevents paying foreign govt officials for preferential treatment. This would appear to be in direct violation if money exchanged hands. This agency could be in very big trouble. I am so sorry for those waiting, but for the long-term success of the program, an investigation is warranted.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Seriously, did anyone think that there really WASN’T any corruption in the China adoption system? The first time I was adopting, I went to an agency meeting where I was told that the agency has a “special connection†to the CCAA and gets all their referrals from the same province, only babies in foster care, and only very healthy babies. In the past 5 years, I’ve never seen a referral for that agency that wasn’t from that province. Hmmmm. My second adoption, I met a family in the Beijing airport who were also headed to Nanchang. They had been told to bring a couple of large bottles of fish oil pills for the local officials and they would be allowed to “fast-track†their adoption. I ran into then again in Guangzhou – I had just arrived in town, and they were leaving for home the next morning. For about $50 worth of fish oils pills, they were able to shave 5 days off their trip. Sounded like a bribe to me. And considering the fact that each day in China cost me upwards of $200, it is a bribe I would have been willing to pay!
September 24th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Suppose agency X has someone at the CCAA (perhaps in the review room) who lets them supplement the dossier after it arrives in China up until it is reviewed. Agency X sends in uncompleted dossiers but doesn’t quote an LID to their clients until the dossier is actually complete, many months later. To the client, the time from start to LID seems about the same as with other agencies but agency X essentially reserves an earlier place in line by sending in those incomplete dossiers as soon as possible. When were the Nov ‘05 dossiers in the review room (I know I’ve seen that or something like that around here, but I can’t find it right now)?
September 24th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Interesting theory bailey–I thought about that too. It’s possibly simply a friendship/relative/family thing between someone at the CCAA, maybe even high up and the agency director. in that situation you wouldn’t find extra payments or extortion and the like. But it seems as if this agency always has to be looking over its shoulder. What a way to live! Yes, China is out of our control. And Hopefulfor07, I could just feel your anguish. I hope the pot doesn’t get stirred either–at least based on the information so far.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
oops I meant to say China is out of our control.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
I also would like to know why one agency is receiving referrals so much farther than everyone else. I think agencies should be asking questions to the CCAA as to why this is happening. I think once CCAA knows it isn’t hush hush anymore then they will stop doing it, depending of course on why they are doing it in the first place.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Everybody is assuming it is bribery…we don’t know that.
We also don’t know that people know that they are being pushed ahead in the LID line before they sign the contract. It could be part of the contract that they keep their mouths shut and aren’t aware of it until they reach that point. I had a phone conversation, and 2 meetings with our agency before we were even given the packet of info that contained the contract.
Anyway there is just too much we are assuming.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
I say let it go as well. It’s obvious this has been going on for some time now. We could be stirring up a hornet’s nest. I would bet that the agency already knows the word is out and ccaa probably does to. I wouldn’t doubt it will change if that’s the case. Let’s move on to new rumors about the next referral batch! WHEN? LID Nov28/05
September 24th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Sooo… if it HAS been going on for some time now, does it predict what happens with the referrals behind it? Does it have ANY connection at all…??? I know I am grasping at straws here, but they seem valid straws to me… since they got all their remaining Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb LIDs, it it possible we could see the next batches follow suit?
Or are they just months ahead with no rhyme or reason?
Sorry if I am asking impossible questions…
September 24th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Yep, this is mildly interesting, but please oh please may there be some rumors about referrals (for the masses, not those happily with Golden Agency) and cut-off?
LID 12/05
September 24th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
In this case, I am torn. I would imagine people who are with this special agency are reading these posts. I know my agency is not the special one. I wish I knew wish agency it was and I feel upset over the whole thing. With that said, I don’t think there is any value in rocking this boat. What would be gained? As skittles says above, it is their bat and their ball. It is their game, not ours. We were not invited to play in the game, we are mere spectators hoping to be allowed in. We were aware of that when we signed up. We know the adoption will happen, but not necessarily when or on the time table we want it to happen.
I don’t want to be skipped over. I don’t want any others to be skipped over either. But the reality is that we absolutely do not know both sides to this story. We don’t. Many writers have put forth excellent theories and some may be spot on, but in truth, we don’t know all the sides to this. Without a complete and full picture of the problem we should not make any moves.
In business, you wouldn’t (shouldn’t) fire someone who did something wrong without getting the whole story. Maybe they did what they did for a logical reason. Surely there is a lot more to the story than we know. Over time, maybe we will understand both sides of the story. In the meantime, I wish all the best for those of you in late Nov and early Dec 05 LID groups. I am hoping beyond all hope that we are all surprised with a big batch.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Wow, lots to ponder here. Thanks RQ for staying on top of this one. I also find it fascinating how this all came about because of that one leak from Europe that was probably a fluke.
My initial gut reaction right now is to let the US agencies handle it. If they think it’s warranted to stir the pot, then let them do it. It’s their work that’s being affected by this favoritism. I don’t know if a US law is being broken here, but somehow I think the CCAA can really do what they want.
I was ok with this until I started thinking about the math. And while I know the agency gets less then 25 per month, I am concerned. If they were at a high of 25 per month, that’s 300 per year as indicated by a poster earlier. The total US Immigrant Visas issues for 2006 was 6,493. So that’s about 4.6%. Now as RQ said, they get less then 25 per month. However, when you are talking a few referrals per month as we know we are getting their percentage of the total creeps up. So let’s say that the CCAA is doing 600 referrals per month. If they get 10 referrals now, then that’s 16%. So even if this agency is small, the total percentage can creep up.
Is my math right here? If I am right, I guess what I would like to know is what percentage of the current montly referral rate is this agency getting today. Like we’d get that info ;-)
And I’d aslo like to echo why? why? why? I know it happens in every culture. But it’s just twisting my emotions today. Bleah
And feel free to correct my math!
Hann23
September 24th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
OBabyEbay, I agree with you. Of course there is corruption. There is corruption in every system all over our country, other countries, and even in China. That is the reality of the world we live in. We may not like it, but it surely exists.
However, from a legal standpoint, unless we knew both sides of the complete story, I am not sure we could say for sure than any corruption took place.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Oops my math was wrong, if the CCAA were doing 600 per month and they did 10 — that’s only 1.6%. I knew something was wrong…
I don’t know tho something is still not sitting right here. I am going to ponder some more about this.
RQ — how firm are you that their referrals are statistically insignificant? If they really are, then it’s up to the agencies I think.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
What are folks really proposing to do with this information?
confront CCAA and demand “fairness?”
What is fair in this situation? Most of these NSN daugthers were abandoned due to a government policy that governs the number of children allowed that when combined with the cultural norms of the country results in a preference for sons. Is that fair?
China has a different definition of fairness than what western culture dictates.
Please don’t mis-interpret this as china-bashing. There are many parts about the US culture that some in this country may “feel” is fair but that other folks do not. A good example of this can be found in the book, “There is no me without you,” and how our government protected the rights of patents on AIDS drugs at the expense of lives of millions around the globe. All to be fair to those who developed the treatment– so they could make their $$$$.
It sounds as though this preferred agency has recieved referrals 2-3 months in advance of other agencies. So, I think that may answer Sherry Vermont’s question about if the referrals to this agency depcit the following referral batch. I don’t think there are any ties between the two as the preferred agency sounds like it is well ahead of the rest of us.
As troubling as this information is, I feel that there isn’t a whole lot that we can do. I fear that making a big stink about it could worsen the wait and cause the CCAA to become hostile toward waiting families. I am too close for that.
I prefer to sit tight and wait. I’ll wait my turn even if others get to cut ahead of me. In all honesty, if I was able to cut ahead, I probably would.
What really irritates me is that my agency indicated that they have a “special” relationship with the CCAA– one of the reasons we chose them. Some special relationship!
I’m down with a cold today, so I should probably stop rambling.
LID 12/20/05
September 24th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I agree with vttoonses.
vttoonses Says:
September 24th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
As one of those who may be getting the “short end of the stick†on this one, I say leave it.
- Raising a stink with China *may* put the adoptions of many other children at risk;
- Raising a stink with the Agency/US government does the same (all we need is another bureaucrat putting their nose in our business);
bbpop
September 24th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Good points Hann23.
With the quota as low as it is — and decreasing every year –the fact that this one agency may be getting a big chunk of an already-low number is extra disturbing…
September 24th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
I think my point is that I find any chunk of a seemingly decreasing number of NSN referrals disturbing.
It’s sort of like a mosquito bite — there’s nothing to do about it but scratch it, but then it could bleed and get infected and turn in to something more. or not.
Can you tell I’ve been working in my yard lately?
Apologies again about my bad math earlier. Really I was way off with my decimal point. I hope I didn’t upset anyone.
Hann23
September 24th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
I don’t think giving preferencial treatment classifies as corruption. They can match babies with any family they like. I was told that the CCAA does give preferences to
childless couples. Someone says it states that on their
website, maybe it is old information, I am not sure. Ican
never get on that website.
Just to share, with my first adoption (not China) the Director there refused to release family dossiers unless we
paid an extra 1,000. I emailed several times the INS, and
they said that they can charge any ‘fee’ that they want where processing paperwork is concerned. I told them that this was not part of the fee breakdown, and he reminded me that International Adoption is not set in stone,
the country can change their rules, fees without notice.
He said, it only becomes corruption when the child you are adopting does not come under the classication of a true orphan as outlined by the INS. He said your agency is licensed to adopt for that country and is licensed in your state, the orphanage is licensed with their Government to place children with families overseas, and the orphans there are deemed true orphans. He stated it only becomes bribery when monies are exchanged for the illegal adoption of a child that does not qualify under the US guidelines of an orphan. He mentioned examples where baby trafficking was definitely happening Cambodia, which shut down, reopened and then shut down again because the US Government was not satisfied that the children were true
orphans. Our dd was not illegally adopted, she was an orphan under their classification. We paid the money to have our file released and it was. Some families didn’t, but eventually succumbed. Her file was signed off in July, and it was still with the Director in September until we paid the
‘bribe” fee. It is not always about money either, it could be about rapport or something every more mysterious.
Personally, I wouldn’t rock the boat because it is out of your hands, and I don’t think it is a big enough deail to
stir things up.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Perhaps this is still more wishful thinking on my part, but I still find it very hard to believe that we are not missing something in this story.
I just don’t see how someone from this agency would not confirm or deny these acusations publically, and I am not saying someone who is waiting to travel or for a referral but someone who is already home.
An agency can tell you to not share on the internet but many would still lurk and once the adoption is finalized there is no threat….
There has to be something that we are missing here???
Has anyone called their agency I am sure they have gotten wind of our discussion.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
I don’t see it as a fairness issue. When this first came out, my initial thought was, “Wow, good for them for placing more kids in homes, and congrats to those families.” Not to mention that this might mean a speed up for me. Now, however, a certain amount of cover-up is happening. When something is being swept under the rug, it is not so much of a stretch to wonder what else they are ashamed of, and what other rules are being bent, as Breezy stated. What can be done about it, however, is another matter. I’m assuming that this agency is already swamped with flame mails from PAP’s. There is probably nothing we can do.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
I do not think that “stirring the pot” will ruin anyone’s chances to become parents. I don’t even think that contacting the CCAA is the first thing that should be done anyway. I agree with whoever said that other agencie’s should lean on the “golden agency.” It upsets me that people are so concerned with their own adoption, that they are willing to turn the “blind eye” when something clearly unethical is going on. I realize that their are a lot of corrupt issues going on, but this is one that we can talk to our agency about, and maybe resolve it.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Corruption is everywhere, this is not new. It could just be one person. Ethical?-no way. Should something be done about it, probably, but would you really sacrifice your adoption or even slow it down anymore for an investigation? My answer is no way! I want my daughter to come home and it’s handled legally(as far as we know). We are so close (12/5/05 LID) and I don’t want ANYTHING to mess this up now. Our son is adopted from another country and money changed hands frequently, I feel sure. I know for a fact that happened with our Notary, when people have been waiting in line since before 8am and it’s 3:00ish and the guide hands cash to the liaison and she disappears and comes back and we go to the front of the line-well, I know what happened there.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
RQ, any feedback from the other agencies and what they think or are saying? What do they think should be done if anything?
September 24th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
‘A small agency of 25 referrals” is the same a s a few non American agencies combined each month.. Australia is lucky to get any referrals each month & when we do it’s usually between 3-6. Witht hat said I don’t belive RQ should rock the boat with CCAA. It would be nice if the American agency now stepped forward & told us what was going on though. If not we can be happy that there are higher numbers being referred each month than previously though.
Tensions are high at CCAA with pressure re the backlog & the approaching Olympics & who knows what rulings from the govt. With their December AGM anything can happen if the boat is rocked the wrong way.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Wow. This is interesting.
I am wondering if it is a particular agency that someone mentioned to us four years ago, when we were only 27 and waiting to meet China’s minimum age requirement. Someone told us of a small American agency that could get us through China even though we weren’t 30, that they had gotten other people through who didn’t meet all of the requirements.
We didn’t do it because (1) we were concerned about the legality of such an adoption, and (2) we were concerned about the authenticity of the agency, since they don’t have a website, and we thought we might get screwed. (RQ, does this agency have a website?)
I have since heard this agency’s name mentioned once or twice in adoption circles, in the context that they take clients by word of mouth only. They are very secretive all around, which makes me wonder if it is them.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
I think 300 adoptions per year is quite a few if there is, in fact, some kind of quota system employed by the CCAA–I don’t think it is as statistically insignificant as others have mentioned. Also, I don’t believe that the CCAA is the only institution that has any say in this– I agree that messing with them would likely be a bad idea. But it takes two to tango! I think the agency that is getting preferential treatment is behaving in a highly unethical manner and that they could certainly be told to get in line! I think it would be fair to tell them to stop doing whatever it is they are doing that makes them preferred– if not simply because of the unethical nature of the practice, then because they are right on the cusp of being publicly exposed. A lot of people know who they are now. I don’t know the details, but I am wondering if it is even morally sound to keep the name of this agency private? I think that is certainly worth consideration. Engaging in practices such as asking their patrons to keep secrets and a low profile is so disgustingly unethical, and it really bums me out that people actually participate in such tomfoolery.
JB LID 02/09/06
September 24th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Breezy — it sounds as if you are NOT currently waiting to adopt from China. Am I correct?
If so, please remember that for those of us trying to become parents, all “the big picture” holds is our babies. Period.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
I absolutely believe something should be done about this (no idea what as I have none of the details obviously) but this could either be the tip of the iceberg, or the start of the slippery slope into more serious forms of corruption.
In the future I want to be able to look our Chinese child in the eye and truthfully say there was NOTHING corrupt or even slightly dodgy about theirs and other adoptions from China (one of the major reasons for choosing China). At the moment, with the limited information available, its sadly looking like that won’t be possible. Where do that leave me and my family who are waiting for MeiMei, I honestly don’t know.
Gertiesquidge
UK DTC 10th August 2007
http://offtochinaoneday.blogspot.com/
September 24th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
Wow. This is interesting.
I am wondering if it is a particular agency that someone mentioned to us four years ago, when we were only 27 and waiting to meet China’s minimum age requirement. Someone told us of a small American agency that could get us through China even though we weren’t 30, that they had gotten other people through who didn’t meet all of the requirements.
We didn’t do it because (1) we were concerned about the legality of such an adoption, and (2) we were concerned about the authenticity of the agency, since they don’t have a website, and we thought we might get screwed. (RQ, does this agency have a website?)
I have since heard this agency’s name mentioned once or twice in adoption circles, in the context that they take clients by word of mouth only. They are very secretive all around, which makes me wonder if it is them.
As for the confidentiality requirement, okay, I can MAYBE see people possibly containing their excitement between referral and travel, but once the adoption is finalized, you can’t tell people not to tell anyone that they have a child! I mean, wtf? Even before travel, what if you have a family member planning to travel with you to China? Are you not supposed to tell them? That is kind of unconscionable to tell people not to share this joy, especially after this wait. If no one can know that these people have these referrals, to the extent that people cannot share with their closest family and friends their joy in becoming parents, there is definitely something wrong with it.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Wow. This is interesting.
I am wondering if it is a particular agency that someone mentioned to us four years ago, when we were only 27 and waiting to meet China’s minimum age requirement. Someone told us of a small American agency that could get us through China even though we weren’t 30, that they had gotten other people through who didn’t meet all of the requirements.
We didn’t do it because (1) we were concerned about the legality of such an adoption, and (2) we were concerned about the authenticity of the agency, since they don’t have a website, and we thought we might get scammed. (RQ, does this agency have a website?)
I have since heard this agency’s name mentioned once or twice in adoption circles, in the context that they take clients by word of mouth only. They are very secretive all around, which makes me wonder if it is them.
As for the confidentiality requirement, okay, I can MAYBE see people possibly containing their excitement between referral and travel, but once the adoption is finalized, you can’t tell people not to tell anyone that they have a child! I mean, what the? Even before travel, what if you have a family member planning to travel with you to China? Are you not supposed to tell them? That is kind of unconscionable to tell people not to share this joy, especially after this wait. If no one can know that these people have these referrals, to the extent that people cannot share with their closest family and friends their joy in becoming parents, there is definitely something wrong with it.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
I’m curious - does it say anywhere that referrals for NSN go strictly by LIDs? Did China promise that in writing or do we just assume that based on past referrals?
I’m just curious - not looking for a reason object to what’s happening. I’m actually for not stirring the pot too - the CCAA will do whatever they please and it is their right. I think that any demands for justifying what they are doing or even asking for more fairness would reflect badly on agencies/APs as disrespectful of their program and work.
I’m happy for those families who got early referrals and especially for their children who now have families.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
I’m with a small agency, with only about 10 referrals per time. It would be interesting to know if the smaller agency that gets earlier referrals, has a special deal with one matcher or if they somehow have connections with CCAA beyond other agencies.
Do they pay for it? We’ve always been told that China is very careful not to accept bribes, and in fact, can be insulted by anything that resembles a bribe.
Also, with all the blogging these days, it seems strange that someone has not leaked info.
September 24th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Wow. This is interesting.
I am wondering if it is a particular agency that someone mentioned to us four years ago, when we were only 27 and waiting to meet China’s minimum age requirement. Someone told us of a small American agency that could get us through China even though we weren’t 30, that they had gotten other people through who didn’t meet all of the requirements.
We didn’t do it because (1) we were concerned about the legality of such an adoption, and (2) we were concerned about the authenticity of the agency, since they don’t have a website, and we thought we might get scammed.
I have since heard this agency’s name mentioned once or twice in adoption circles, in the context that they take clients by word of mouth only. They are very secretive all around, which makes me wonder if it is them.
As for the confidentiality requirement, okay, I can MAYBE see people possibly containing their excitement between referral and travel, but once the adoption is finalized, you can’t tell people not to tell anyone that they have a child! Even before travel, what if you have a family member planning to travel with you to China? Are you not supposed to tell them? That is kind of unconscionable to tell people not to share this joy, especially after this wait. If no one can know that these people have these referrals, to the extent that people cannot share with their closest family and friends their joy in becoming parents, there is definitely something wrong with it.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Waiting4meimei…. I couldn’t agree with you more. I really don’t feel we have the right to tell CCAA how they can run their program or whether we feel what they do is right or wrong. I also don’t feel we have enough information at this point to make good judgement calls.
I dont’ care “to stir the pot” as I feel that China still has one of the more stable adoption programs that is available to us.
Even with the lengthening wait times, it is pretty certain that they will have a child for us in the end.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
KareninCa,
This is not the first time I have heard of this. It’s been going on awhile.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Fair is relative. I say leave it alone. None of this is fact and even if it is, we have no right to tell the CCAA how to run their program. We may be unhappy but in the end it will only ruffle their feathers and cause nothing but hard feelings. With the wait times increasing and all of the changes this is the last thing anyone wants. An unintended effect of this conversation is that this agency in question may see more parents applying if they do really get referrals faster. This could be a good thing for this agency with decreasing numbers applying to China. Some may say they would not deal with them for ethical reasons but if they really are on 2/06 lids, then their clients are getting babies 9-12 months earlier and that may temp many people if this is true, which we do not know for a fact.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Interesting…very interesting. I’m not on the yahoo group which apparently discussed the agency but it’s not hard to guess which it probably is. I like sleeping at night so I’ll wait than have to face the notion of getting preferential treatment. I imagine the agency in question accepts extra money (read fancy schmancy plan)for their favors and I equate that sort of behavior as truly “buying a child”. I guess I’ll stay moral and wait forever.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
amygum,
I don’t think anyone is suggesting ruffling the CCAA’s feathers, a few people think that other U.S. agencies should pressure this “golden agency” to stop.
And I believe that RQ has gotton more than a couple of confirmations that this is fact.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
OK,
This is what I have to say…….
Going with this Agency in America, that I chose, I have never been asked to lie, cheat or steal!!!!!! In fact, they always tell it like it is. I have adopted before this mess and once again on the list for my second daughter. Yes, this is a small agency that has not received ANY refferals since last July 2006, AND yes it’s nice to see movement again!!!!!!!!! For those of you who think that your making it easy for the rest of us YOUR NOT. Think about it? What would you do if your group was next and the world is making it seem that your new bundle of joy is anything but exciting? I would feel guilty and scared that my long wait and my little girl could be further away because of these lies!!!!! Look we are all in the same waiting line and instead of getting mad and taking rumors to a new level think about it. These lies could hurt the rest of us in line and give CCAA another reason to change the rules or anything else. I knew since day one how long the wait could be but I know no matter what at the end of all this my baby girl will be waiting for me. Let’s give these families a break, let them enjoy this moment without making them feel worried. If you believe in your agency, the IA and CCAA no matter waht at the end it will all be worth it!!!!!!!!!!! Either we all could wait and make it a blessing or make the wait less painful for everyone else…..
I am happy for these families enjoy your bundle of joy, you will be with them soon.
Remember rumors are sometimes only 1 sided, this is why I wanted to make a post…….
I am happy with this mystery agency and have never been asked to lie by anyone. I looked at several before this one and would not change a thing. So please be kind so the rest of us don’t get hurt.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
The mystery agency that I am with has not made special deals or anything else.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
What will be interesting to find out is if, they have already received referrals for Feb 06 families, then how far out will they get referrals in this next round?
Will their entire month of March 06 get referrals? Oy-vey.
By the way, I camp with the folks who say don’t stir it up. I just find it very interesting that they thought this would stay secret. I mean, if this isn’t a close-nit community (with internet access, I might add), I don’t know who is.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Let’s protest with our pocketbook and it’s simple supply and demand. Let’s tell the people who are just applying about this agency and that they are able to jump the line and bring home children faster. Maybe when they are overrun with applications they wont think it was worth it to play so unfairly. Leave China, the US and our agencies out of it.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Breezy — I am assuming from your post that you are NOT currently waiting to adopt. Am I correct?
Let me assure you that, for most of us who are waiting to become parents, the “big picture” is a huge close-up of our future baby’s beautiful face. Period.
Let’s not ruin our chance to become parents.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Once again, circumstances beyond my control teach me that **life isn’t fair**. No matter how long I have to wait, no matter how much disappoint I experience along the way, no matter how much impropriety occurs around me…this will not steal my joy. I know for certain I will be a parent someday and my story will have a happy ending.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Okay,
This is what I want to say:
I love this agency that got refferals and I just want to let all of you know, Not once have they asked me to lie about LID, DTC, Referrals etc. As this will be our second time adopting and using them. I want everyone to know this;
This is a small agency that has not received refferals since last July 2006. Happy to finally see movement again. Stop making the rumor bigger then it is. This could hurt all of us waiting in line if CCAA gets wind and thinks these 1 sided rumors are true.
This small agency has been truthful to us and we knew since day one how long the wait would be.
I say we all send big congrats to these families in both agencies and let them enjoy thier bundle of joy without feeling guilty. The way I see it is; if getting makes your wait easier than I am sorry it is going to be a long hall for all of you. If it were you that got this excting news I would hope you would want to be jumping for joy and doing the happy dance. Look the wait is hard enough don’t make it any harder for the rest of us please.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Forgive me if this is a repeat post, my reply to Breezy hasn’t been posting…
Breezy, you asked waiting parents who don’t want to stir the pot to see “the big picture.” Please be advised that, for many of us waiting to become parents, “the big picture” includes only a huge close-up of our future baby’s beautiful face. Period.
Let’s not ruin our chances to become parents.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
maisey13,
I agree that life isn’t fair. But I don’t think we should ignore this just because “our day will come.” It’s corrpution, and it’s wrong. I don’t think it’s okay to just sit here and watch it happen. By having our agencies nudge this “golden agency” we may be able to stop/slow the problem.
September 24th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
My thoughts after a restless nights sleep, is leave well enough alone. “Stirring the pot”, or getting other agencies to make complaints, could just put all of us in an even more unstable place.
If this is what has come out of the woodwork in the last 48hrs from Europe and America, what other countries is the line for LID dates being broken? What other countries agencies are holding their clients hearts tight so they too don’t spill any news via the net to the rest of us?
I know that some things in life aren’t fair, but what I do know is that I can proudly say to my daughter one day, that your Mama followed every rule in the book of her govt and agency to get to you, and so did 1000’s of other Mama’s. Our heart’s heavy the whole time while we waited and waited and waited.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Breezy, you asked us to think of the big picture. Please be advised that, for many of us who are waiting to become parents, the big picture is a huge close-up of our future baby’s beautiful face. Period.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Wow…my agency doesn’t return my calls about simple questions, while another agency helps their clients jump-line!
I should have done more homework!!!
September 24th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
I am with goingtochina08. It bums me out in a huge way to think that this agency not only behaves in such an unethical manner, but asks their patrons to do the same– and worse still, they do! Even though the participating parties most likely have a solid notion about what this community is going through, there are some who think it is ok to jump the queue. Wow. I am really not a fan of the “I got mine” mentality. While messing w/ the CCAA may not be the thing to do, this agency needs to be pressured into stopping. I am certainly not in possession of all the facts, but I am wondering if keeping the name of this agency private is even the right thing to do. In reality, it is not just agencies who can pressure the golden agency, potentially this community could too.
JB LiD 02/09/2006
September 24th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
OK — my previous ideas won’t post so I’ll try one more time.
Breezy, you asked us to see the big picture. Please be advised that, for many of us waiting to become parents, the big picture includes only a huge close up of our future baby’s beautiful face. Period.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Being a first time parent who tried to have a baby for four years, lost one. Started this adoption 2 years ago with 1-5 more years to wait still. This is NOT fair…but China can do whatever they want, because this is our only way to have a baby!
Most of you say that childless couples over 30 without children given priority would be unfair…but to me, I’ve waited 6 years to have a baby. I think it’s totally fair! And I think the more babies that get adopted (even out of line) the closer I am to finally being a parent!
I will let China do whatever they want to me-as long as someday I have a baby to show for it!
September 24th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
I have been trying to stay positive about this long adoption ride. My LID is 12/5/05 and in the Dec room we are hoping Oct referrals at least reach 12/5 or more. It’ll be disheartening if we miss the cutoff especially in light of this information. It effects vacation leave carryover, time spent at home with baby, tax benefits not to mention the personal emotional strain. We have no control, but it stinks all the same.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
…you know everyone…I have had a very stressful day ..and to sit and listen to the potential that this topic ignites is to much for me and my heart to take any more…it’s bad enough that the wait is way beyond what we were all promised, but to find up the corrupt things going on…makes my heart wonder if we will every adopt our daughter…..signed in despair…LID March 17, 2006
September 24th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
If it’s true it makes me sad. Unfortunately, life is not fair, but when you are messing with people’s hearts and children it just seems plain wrong.
September 24th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
This reeks of corruption. I too think it is great that these children were placed with their forever families, but wouldn’t they have been placed wiht families anyhow? So to make it sound as if they would still be in orphanages without this “special arrangement” is wrong. They would have been placed with families within the appropriate LID dates that were to receive referrals. There is a possibility that they could be finished with Dec 05 by now without hti arrangement in place. I would have a huge problem finding out that someone with a 07 LID could receive their child before mine has come home. Can we do anything? Not with the CCAA but maybe pressuring the agency. It is possible that the agency makes some pretty good coin with this operation. Many people will pay extra money for this type of arrangement. The potential for this to come very close to baby selling is there. I know this has not been brought about as truth(the $ thing), it is just a thought. I think it sticks!
T
September 24th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
I’ve heard the “but it’s not SOOOO many families” what’s the big deal over and over again.
Fine I say for other countries KNOWN for their cheating and scandals.
So I ask another question instead. At what point does it matter?
How many LID’s matter? (in this case 2-3 months of LID’s early is 6-10 WAITING months for everyone else folks)
How many getting skipped matter? 25 a month no big deal eh. What about 50 a month. What about 100 a month…
How many parents matter?
ohhhh, my favorite, which country is it ok to do this in?
-all of spain gets a 2 month waiting period, the US gets 25?
I suppose perspective makes wiping away the crime pretty darn easy. Greying of the line between right and wrong serves NO ONE.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
ahhh, I figured it out. sounds like a job for chew.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Gregs - Are you saying you are with that agency and you know that they are not doing anything underhanded?
September 24th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
A couple of points. If you have ever been to China you will know that there is no such thing as a queue (especially in airports!) so it doesn’t necessarily surprise me that referrals may not go exactly by LID order. Just take a look at the issuance of TAs for the WC program and you will be mesmerized trying to figure out their pattern!
Second point . The agency we used back in 2002 claimed to have a special relationship with the CCAA in fact the Director at the time was a relative of the agency Director so yes I do believe based on relationship they were able to gain favor in certain situations and when referrals slowed down back then they were able to expedite a few clients whose 1-171s would have expired had they been made to wait for their regular referral group.
Corruption? Yes-saw it on our first trip in 2002. When we arrived at the passport offices we were told all the sudden that passports would cost less but would take longer which would mean a travel group of 13 families would be stuck there and missing our CA appointments. The next day the agency flew in the special rep from Bejing and we were told that if we all coughed up and additional $100 that they would process our passports within the five days in order to make our flights to GZ. Guess what nobody even questioned and they all just sucked it up and paid the money so we didn’t get stuck there an additional three days.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
SO SORRY for multiple posts. When I posted last night, it showed up right away. Today, after several minutes they weren’t showing up, so I tried again. rrrrrgh. Sorry.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
ok, weird. my 8:21 showed up immediately.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Magpiesmom,
I completely agree with all of your points, however I doubt that the CCAA finds this to be “corruption”. They never promised us anything. There only mission is finding good homes for babies. Not to be confused with finding babies for families in an orderly and timely fashion. If you’ve been to China, you know that cueing in an orderly fashion is not their custom.
There are 1.3 billion people in China and we’re talking about maybe 6,000 to 8,000 adoptions this year. Any more bad press for this program and I would think we would start to see one-day referrals.
I’m a realist and we are dealing with a communist country where fair and just are not defined in westerly terms.
September 24th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
Goingtochina08
“I know their is corruption in every program - I am not naive. But I just wish that as adoptive parents, we actually cared enough to do something about it. ”
Bravo.
What people don’t forget is that first drawing a l