Questions
Lots of questions out there, and not a lot of answers.
One I can answer though, and that is the one about what happens if your agency goes out of business. When that happens the agency makes arrangements for another agency to pick up where they left off. Your original contract will still be (mostly) good as far as when money is due. So if all agency fees were paid upfront then you won’t have to pay them again, but if half were up front and half on the back end then you’ll still be paying half later on. The things out of your control are whether you’ll be with a large agency or a small one, and any rules the new agency has about when and how you travel. You’re pretty much stuck with whoever your agency makes a deal with, but at least you’ll be able to finish the adoption.
The other questions aren’t so easy to answer. And there are two big ones that are out there right now. The first is why the CCAA (for the first time ever, as far as I know) split CNY up so that they ended on a date in the middle, and the second is whether things will pick back up after the Olympics are over.
I see two possible answers to the cut off question. Either someone did indeed work during CNY and some people managed to get logged in during that period of time…. or the CCAA did not want the appearance of a larger than currently normal batch in the month right after the Olympics.
Would someone have worked during CNY? Probably not, but maybe. My understanding is that there are no sick days, if you are out when you are sick then you must come in during weekends and/or holidays to make up the time. Would someone work during CNY though? Maybe, maybe not. I have not heard of anyone with a LID between January 28 and 31 (inclusive) getting a referral in this batch. If we had people stepping up with LID’s during that time it might be easier to believe. As it is, I find it more probable that someone didn’t want a larger than currently normal batch size to show up just after the Olympics. Not that it would have been that big numbers wise, but date wise.
And that leads us to the last question. Will things pick up after the Olympics?
There are some agencies saying exactly that, while there are other agencies saying they expect more of the same and one even saying things might slow down even more.
Personally, if (and that’s a big IF) things are going to pick back up, I doubt we’ll see it before December or January. And honestly, the only hope I have that things might pick back up revolves around what I’m hearing about the increase in the “donation”. It’s being floated around that more babies might be made available now that the orphanage directors have more incentive to make them paper ready. We know there are plenty of babies, just not many paper ready babies. How to explain that suddenly more of them are paper ready? Increase the donation, problem solved.
As some have pointed out, things slowed down pretty drastically all at once. It wasn’t a gradual drop from 30 days to 15 days, it happened quickly. And the drop from 15 days to 5 or 6 days happened drastically as well. Take a look at the Referral History on this page. Look at the far right column, the days referred at a time. Things dropped by half in the fall of 2005, and then another sudden (and large) drop in April of 2007. The theory goes that if things can drop that suddenly then they can pick back up that suddenly.
I wish I had a working crystal ball. I wish I could give advise to those of you out there desperately trying to figure out what to do. I get heartbreaking emails asking me whether someone should drop out of the program or stick with it. I can’t make that kind of decision for anyone. Each family has to make that decision for themselves.
Sure, there is a chance things might speed back up, but there is also a chance that things will not speed back up at all and may even slow down even more. We have agencies warning of all possibilities, and I have no idea which will turn out accurate in the long run.
August 19th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Thanks RQ,
Its a good analysis. If there is going to be an improvement, then i dont think we’ll see anything until at least Feb 09.
I have no choice but to stay in line as we dont have Wc programme or Sn. govt only. So i’ll wait and see how things go for the moment, and hopefully make an informed decision
or maybe it’ll be taken out of my hands.
I dont know?
Hopefully the increased donation will lead to more paper ready
children. We’ll just have to wait and see.
Thanks for everything you do RQ.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:11 am
As always, thanks RQ! Just wondering, about how long ago was the increase in agency donation instituted?
Also, I’m wondering if there might be one another factor, besides the agency donation, that could help speed things up. A few weeks ago, someone posted a rumor that made alot of sense to me. They said that their agency’s director spoke with CCAA officials. CCAA claimed that once the Olympics were over, it was their intention to see if more orphanages can be certified to refer babies for IA. Apparently, a relatively small percentage (like under 25%) are approved for IA because they need to be especially clean and well-maintained (in order to keep up appearances for the outside world I presume). I don’t know, it sounds feasible.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:21 am
We are one of those families that have no other options of adding to our family. We can not switch at this point, we feel that our baby will be ready when the time is right.
Thank you RQ for all you do for everyone out there.
I do hope that things will speed up after the olympics.
Littleperson647
11-23-07
August 19th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Hi All,
We had a China meeting last night at our agency. There was just one other couple there. Very sad. There used to be a lot of couples. We found out that many agencies accross the country are trying to get the State Dept. to change the rule on the I600/I800 mess. Our agency said the I800 is a real pain an many people are being denied with the I800 even though they have already been approved earlier with the I600. Makes me a little nervous. I guess it has to do with the “wording” of the homestudies. She wouldn’t comment on the speed up possibility. I guess she does not want to give false hope. I just said I would expect a referral maybe mid 2011 the way things are now(LID 1-07), and she seemed to agree. I do expect things to get better, but I have a feeling it won’t be until 2009. Even if things improve to 10 days a month, we would still be looking at about another 2 yr. wait. That’s about it. I for one, am very anxious for Oct. to get here. I don’t expect to much this Sept. with the Olympics just finishing.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:18 am
I’m a little baffled by the theory that things could slow down even more. Is that even possible? Slowing down more means stopping. We’ve already seen three-day months. What does that mean– one-day months? Not possible. Insane. It would take 30 years for us to get matched if that were the case. It’s true that September may be a near standstill, since this month everyone’s still occupied with the stinkin’ Olympics, but October, November? No more excuses.
It’s ridiculous. China can’t keep up the current pace, and they must know that. Even at the current pace, it’s taken six months to get through January 06, so those of us with LIDs a year out would have to wait six years at that rate. Is there any person on the planet that would think that’s okay– to put families through that? If babies aren’t paper ready at the orphanage level, then the government can/should lean on orphanages to do so. After all that we’ve seen at the Olympics, all the accomplishments, all the government fiddling, do we really think the Chinese government is incapable of influencing the wait time? They can reduce smog, they can MAKE IT RAIN for goodness’ sake, but they can’t get 10,000 babies a year ready for families?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:24 am
longestwait - you go girl!
Well said.
Moonpie
August 19th, 2008 at 10:34 am
” . . . or the CCAA did not want the appearance of a larger than currently normal batch in the month right after the Olympics.”
I would put my money on this one. Otherwise, it would look like a larger batch right after the Olympics, which would fuel the post-Olympics speedup theory, which they know isn’t going to happen.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:41 am
I think orphanages will start hurting if they aren’t getting those regular donations like they have in the past. They are probably already hurting from the slow down. So I just think it makes sense for things to pick back up. They don’t want to lose the money! The orphanages just don’t get an infusion of cash from other sources and can’t take care of their children well enough without those donations. It may occur gradually, but I think things will pick up.
The justification can be that although they do not have that many children abandoned anymore, they are now allowing all the orphanages to participate so all of the children can find homes, and that has increased the amount of children available. That way they wouldn’t lose face–they’re actually being good guys, opening international adoption up to so many more orphanages.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Has anyone read the Forum article titled “Shrinking population a catastrophe awaiting China,” written by Jonathan V. Last? It’s on the opinion page of my local paper today, but he’s a columnist for the Philadelphia Inquirer, so I’m sure it can be found online or in other publications. The grim reality of China’s shrinking yet aging population is startling.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I also think they didn’t want an especially small batch right before the Olympics either.
Thank you RQ. This message board/forum really is a life line for so many of us stuck in limbo. Longestwait you are right - China can certainly do anything they want… and they have proved that. The question is, do they want to honor their ‘promise’ of a child. I know a lot of people will get all over me for that, but I believe that when they accepted my dossier - when they logged me in, that we became engaged and a committment was made. At that point if they felt that they couldn’t honor that committment they should have said ‘Sorry. Program closed,’ instead of dangling that carrot on a stick further and further away each month. It is not all passive on the behalf of the PAP.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:28 am
“A few weeks ago, someone posted a rumor that made alot of sense to me. They said that their agency’s director spoke with CCAA officials. CCAA claimed that once the Olympics were over, it was their intention to see if more orphanages can be certified to refer babies for IA. ”
Interesting. I hope that is the case. About a month ago, I heard from our agency that the orphanage fee might go up but I haven’t heard anything since.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I think that some dossiers–albeit a small number–got moved into batches with lids during the CNY period. It happened with us. In the review stage, they asked for additional paperwork from my doctor. That meant our agency called us, I got an appt with the doctor, the doctor signed and notarized a letter, which we mailed to our agency, which they mailed to the CCAA. Our LID was Jan 4, 2005. Then, because of the paperwork, our agency was told we would be matched with Feb 1,2005’s LIDs or with Feb 6, 2005’s LIDs. It was basically where the review room was when our follow-up paperwork arrived… we were put in an in-between stack. It was very frustrating… especially because we didn’t know that we had been moved to a later LID batch until they had matched everyone else with a Jan 4 LID and ours was not in the referrals.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
We were told a while back, at least a year ago, I think, that the CCAA had opened IA up to all orphanages. IIRC this was last spring, and was one of the reasons we hoped things might speed up in the fall, since it takes about six months for a baby to be made paper ready and have their paperwork make it to the CCAA. Obviously, that didn’t happen.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
‘longestwiat’…Amen sister…my husband and I think the same thing. I maybe more cynical than others. I don’t think the government really cares about the children. The little girl whose voice was used to do the singing at the Olympics was felt to be too ugle and so they had a little girl lip sync…they showed the picture of the little girl whose voice was used and she was just precious. I think the government will do anything to protect its image and the people have very little power to overcome it.
Regarding more orphanages signing up to be apart of the CCAA program. I have heard that going on 1 1/2 years, nothing significant has occurred. I would not be surprised if the government prefers to have these children raised in orphanages for the purposes of the country.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
My thoughts are that we’ll either see August’s Batch size for the next 6 months or we’ll see a return to the previous 6 months size for the next 6 months…and THEN we’ll see it ever so slightly increase. I don’t think it will “increase” due to a calculated increase of files, but rather attrition will start playing into things, along with a slight increase in babies due to orphanage donation and other orphanages going online.
If it doesn’t, then I will know we’re truly looking at the end of the program as it just can not survive a 5+ year wait. Heck, I don’t think it can survive long on a 2+ year wait.
The increasing wait brought back the frustrations of infertility and the loss of the ability to plan my life. The emotional toll is incredible, and you feel the pain of each holiday or event in your life. I survived them by saying “Surely by X date I’ll have a child” which was awful as that date would come and I would not. *sigh*
We ended up SN, but as I would like to adopt again I am keeping up with China’s program. The more I see, the more I fear a 2nd adoption from China will be out for us. That makes me very sad for our daughter too.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I wonder if we as a community could/should encourage more training be provided to currently non-IA participating orphanages regarding how to get a child paper ready? I know for a fact that at least one NGO (not sure if I can mention NGOs by name here, so I won’t) has sent a team out several times to teach SWI staff how to complete a dossier for a child. Could we support more such classes??
As for the increase in the orphanage donation, whew - wish we could get a straight answer on that. In one of my daughters’ Province yahoo groups, families who have traveled at different times have been charged different amounts in the past 6 months, with some families who traveled LATER being charged LESS than families who traveled two weeks earlier. Is the fee charged by city/orphanage, rather than by Province? Who knows!!! The process of paying the fee was 180 degrees different in the Autonomous Region and Province I’ve had experience with…
My agency is one of those which is now out of business, btw… but all their remaining clients are being very well taken care of, thankfully. It’s a terrible tragedy, tho…
Finally, I received my second daughter on Feb 6, 2006 - which was the first day of the second week of Spring Festival (CNY). I can therefore confirm that the government officials of her Province were working that week… even tho I was the only foreigner completing an adoption that day.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part. But even though they announced that they’re going to open all orphanages to IA, does that mean that it happened right away? I think they first have to be “certified”. I heard that right now, only a small percentage are certified. Once the Olympics are over, hopefully they’ll work to have more of them certified. Just a thought, but probably wrong. Sniff, sniff, sniff…
August 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I don’t believe it is true that there are plenty of babies, just not enough paper-ready babies. In some orphanages, sure. But in general? I don’t believe it.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
More hurdles from the US gov’t re:the adoption tax credit - an excerpt from the following link is here.
“Some adopting parents have been so discouraged by the length of time it takes, they’ve dropped out,” says Keith Wallace, chief executive of Families Thru International Adoption, a non-profit adoption agency.
“Those families aren’t going to be able to claim the credit, and they’re going to be out-of-pocket for the money” they’ve spent on the adoption.
Even those who persevere could lose the full credit. The existing credit is scheduled to expire in 2010. If not reauthorized by Congress, it will drop to $5,000, the amount of the credit before the current law was enacted, according to the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. It now takes more than three years to complete the adoption of a child from China, Wallace says. Unless Congress reauthorizes the credit, families who apply to adopt a Chinese child this year may not complete the process in time to claim the full amount.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
An article in Vanity Fair on adoptive & biological parents of Chinese children:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/08/adoption200808
August 19th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
longestwait said:
“Is there any person on the planet that would think that’s okay– to put families through that? If babies aren’t paper ready at the orphanage level, then the government can/should lean on orphanages to do so. After all that we’ve seen at the Olympics, all the accomplishments, all the government fiddling, do we really think the Chinese government is incapable of influencing the wait time?”
1. I seriously do not think that China is considering the personal impact on families in the USA or anywhere else outside of China.
2. I believe the slow down is BECAUSE the Chinese government has dictated it, and that the government has total control over how many NSN children are let out of the orphanages…hence, leave China.
DebL said:
“I don’t think the government really cares about the children. The little girl whose voice was used to do the singing at the Olympics was felt to be too ugle and so they had a little girl lip sync…they showed the picture of the little girl whose voice was used and she was just precious. I think the government will do anything to protect its image and the people have very little power to overcome it.”
1. IMO I don’t know of any government that “cares” about it’s children more than it’s own power struggles. There are many working poor in the US that have NO insurance for their children.
2. As for the second child being too “ugly” there are two reports about that…the first report that came out is how you read it….But the second report that came out was that China first chose the girl that was in the production because she is in China commercials often. The director decided that her singing was not good enough, so they chose another child (unfamous) to do the singing behind the scenes. That scenario sounds more believable. But, media wants to hold it’s own spin on the “evils of communist China”…so the first story was the take that the media went with.
If in fact, the second scenario was true….I can see the US or any other host country doing exactly the same thing…but the spin would not be about the evils of the country, it would have been about how cute the first child is in her commercials.
August 19th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Can someone tell me how Review works? We were asked to provide more info to CCAA over a week ago and have heard nothing since. Do approvals go to agencies in batches or on a case by case basis? Should we have heard something by now? Getting nervous because we have a medical issue in question.
Perudy
August 19th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
waiting for megan
Thanks for letting us know. I think everyone needs to start writing their congressmen to keep the existing tax credit. They work for us, but they need to know how we feel. I for one, will start getting addresses together. Can it get any worse?? Can they make it any harder?? UGG!! I feel like screaming right now
August 19th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
wating for Megan:
thanks for the article link. I have that issue, and didn’t know that article was in there!
KareninCa:
I agree, Yang Peiyi (the ‘voice’) is beautiful. I read that her teeth were the issue. Our daughter
will need some ‘dental fine tuning’ at some point, and she is just as beautiful as can be!
I guess that’s show biz, folks!
August 19th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
‘KarenInCA’ I can’t agree more…I read so many blogs and mind you you can’t get the true essense of the writer intended, but there seems to be this need for all of us stuck in this wait to think that China the government cares for these children is quite naive of us.
My DH and I think China’s IA program is fading out and we believe that some of the wait is intended…not all of it but a percentage.
Nice to hear about the second scenerio as the media has not really put that story out there…as stated it is all about IMAGE and saving face.
August 19th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
For those of you, like me, who are lid anywhere from, say, 9/05 on…our timing couldn’t have been more impeccable! First, we have the unbearably extended wait times, the duplication of paperwork, the extra homestudy, I600/171, and orphanage fees, the uncertainty, anxiety, sleeplessness and fear, and now the possible loss of the adoption tax credit. Frankly, I am kicking myself in the rear-end that I didn’t start this process just a year or 2 sooner. But I’ve heard over and over again that no matter what we have to go through, it will all be worth it in the end. I hope they’re right…
August 19th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
If they go any slower they will be going in reverse. I for one will NOT send my daughter back!
If they went back to full months right now, the wait would stay at 30 months. The only way for this to really speed up is for them to do more than a month at a time which isn’t very likely or for everyone in line a head of you to throw in the towel.
I am so mad at the Chinese government. They make us follow rules based on our age to adopt, etc. But they have athletes competing that are not old enough.
I know there are those that say the Chinese government does not OWE US ANYTHING. Well they will stand before God someday and have to answer to him on how they treated their orphans. They do have an obligation to the children. How are those children suppose to feel about their country? Gee, there were 20,000 families that would have taken me in but I had to grow up without the love of a family. Shame on the the Chinese government!
We did not do our post placement reports in protest of the increase in the rules and the slow down in the process. I hope my agency had the guts to relay our reason to the CCAA.
Our daughter was worth the wait! She is wonderful beyond words to describe her. Beautiful, intelligent, nice personality, and she loves Jesus with all her heart. (I’m sure that would really upset the Chinese if they knew that)
Hang in there all!
August 19th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Waiting for Megan, thank you for sharing the link to the article. I would have never found it on my own.
samba in sac
http://www.talesfromthebigtomato.blogspot.com
August 19th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
hellofrompgh
Not submitting post placement reports in protest only further jepordizes the program for the orphans and parents still waiting.
August 19th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
I’m sure God loves the Chinese too, hellofrompgh. ;-)
August 19th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
hellofrommpgh,
First, religious posts are not allowed on this site. Secondly, I don’t believe refusing post-placement reports does any good. A region in Kazakhstan once put adoptions on hold due to parents not completing post placement reports. They are important whether you support the Chinese government or not. We are all frustrated with the wait right now, but refusing to complete these reports won’t help anyone.
August 19th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
hellofrompgh.
I forgot to say that if you care at all about the adoptive community and other people’s pain and frustration, you will do the right thing and call your agency tomorrow. PLEASE!!
None of us likes this, but it is no reason to not fulfill your obligation. If you really don’t care about any of us, do it for your daughter as an early lesson on doing the right thing and being a caring, responsible parent.
August 19th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Wow. Great article. Thanks for sharing it with us, WaitingFor Megan.
M2I
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
August 19th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Waitingforlibby,
Thanks for your comment about the post-placement reports. I completely agree. Rather than making any kind of statement to the Chinese government that would be productive, refusal to comply with filing the mandatory post-placement reports only endangers the program for those still waiting.
Laureen
http://www.babysites.com/sites/laureenmary
August 19th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
hellofrommpgh~ you not doing your post placements could threaten the adoptions of all who are waiting. I urge you to reconsider and not be selfish. By not providing this info to CCAA you are not hurting them, yourself or your daughter you were lucky enough to adopt: you may be hurting my chances of completing my adoption.
The religious comments are not allowed here. Like providing post placement reports, its a rule. It seems you have difficulty following rules both CCAA’s and RQ’s.
susan
August 19th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Wait4ever, I’m going to write my congressman also. He was really helpful when we were waiting for news on our first I600a filing.
I love this site for all the good info everyone shares.
Please file your post placement reports Hellofrommpgh - you can be giving China yet another reason to slowdown or totally stop adoptions. Please reconsider. I actually had to pay already for my postplacement before my agency would accept my dossier, because there were issues then (Feb 07) with people not filing postplacement reports and China being upset over it.
August 19th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
hellofrompgh,
Does your G-d allow unethical behavior and lying? I don’t know about you but the religion I grew up with says that your actions are a reflection on your faith and that part of being a good witness is an awareness of how your actions represent yourself and your religion.
Based on that, you have an obligation to uphold the promise you made to the CCAA when adopting your daughter. You agreed to provide post placement reports at that time. To not do so is extremely unethical and I can’t imagine your G-d would be very proud of those actions.
August 19th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Hello All,
I think we can all rest assured that the vast majority of people do file their post placement reports as promised. Not complying with the rules we all agree to only proves why the Chinese government might have doubts about IA. It’s disturbing to think some might find this an effective “protest” but in the end it’s probably so few people who behave this way that it won’t influence our adoption process.
As for “underage” athletes competing, I am so sick and tired of the clearly biased gymnastics commentators trying to fuel the fire. I had a friend who was offered a child bus fare when she was 18. She was upset because she did look like she could be under 12! So, for all the “you be the judge if she’s 16″ stuff I’m hearing from the Americans, my answer is they all look young and who’s to say if someone is 14, 15, 16, or 20. You just can’t always tell!
August 19th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
hellofrommpgh- I hope you present a more positive attitude about China to your daughter than your post indicates. If not, that seems very sad. As for not doing post placements, that seems very inconsiderate to other families who are waiting. My daughter is home, and I did my post placements because I wanted to make sure I did my part, which I agreed to do in my agency contract, to assure the program continues. Personally, If I was waiting now, that post would really piss me off. We always hear frequent posts about agencies being in “the wrong”, but from their view point, this is very wrong. I would hope you would reconsider your decision to do post placements, if not for yourself, for those who are waiting.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
hellofrommpgh, I also agree with ladeeesquire, please do your post placement reports and don’t put the rest of us in danger.
Also your post speaks of Jesus and yet has such anger. Perhaps, you forgot that Jesus teaches forgiveness.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
“It’s being floated around that more babies might be made available now that the orphanage directors have more incentive to make them paper ready. We know there are plenty of babies, just not many paper ready babies. How to explain that suddenly more of them are paper ready? Increase the donation, problem solved.”
RQ, how do you know there are plenty of babies? Is this a fact or a guess? Also are these children who qualify for NSN or WC route?
Possibly the CCAA did open more SWI’s as suggested and this would explain the new large shared lists that surfaced recently and the encouragement from CCAA for families to switch programs?
Also hellofrompgh, your comment is pretty whacked! “(I’m sure that would really upset the Chinese if they knew that)”
Psssst… your daughter is one of “the Chinese” if you haven’t yet noticed. What is that all about? Do you think you can adopt a child from China and then change her ethnicity?
“They do have an obligation to the children” your right on that one and offering them a chance to remain within their homeland is the first and foremost obligation (and law). Next would be making sure that if they are adopted IA, they go to decent families who adopt for the right reasons.
I am sure “the Chinese” are not too fearful about who they will meet in their afterlife as they make decisions about their IA program. lol
August 19th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Our agency said that if you don’t do post placements it is a black mark against the agency. The CCAA does not like this and it can in the future affect those that are waiting.
I know this happened with Kaz adoptions when people refused to do their post placements and others who didn’t register. I didn’t want to do mine as it cost me 1,500 to do but I did because I know it will affect my agency’s good standing and those that are waiting.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:15 am
hellofrommpgh wrote:
“We did not do our post placement reports in protest of the increase in the rules and the slow down in the process. I hope my agency had the guts to relay our reason to the CCAA.”
How amazingly arrogant. For months and months people complained about the wait and wondered why China didn’t do something about it. China put in place restrictions to decrease the number of eligible families, and you are “protesting” that? As for protesting the slow down of the process, none of us knows for sure the true reasons for what has happened with the China program. Your comments reflect the worst kind of entitlement.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:02 am
Kyleigh-
I thought the same thing about the Chinese gymnasts, and posted that on another forum, and someone commented that Dr. Jane Liedtke (founder of Our Chinese Daughters Foundation), a woman who currently lives in China and adopted from China, has commented that her adopted daughter was in the same training facility with 3 of the 6 girls on the Chinese Olympic team. The problem is, she has a picture of these girls with her own daughter. Her daughter at the time was 10 yrs old and these three girls were around 4-5 yrs old. Her daughter is NOW 15 yrs old :-(
Unfortunately, it’s too easy for the families in China or the government to simply state the age for a document if they want to.
I hate to say it, but the three she’s talking about do look pre-pubescent.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:32 am
hellofrompgh, you give adopting Americans a very bad name. The contract you signed with your agency was legally binding, and I’m sure your agency included postplacement reports in its list of client responsibilities. You signed legally binding documents while in China, too, and I’d be willing to bet that if you felt China didn’t uphold its end of the adoption contract you’d be screaming blue murder to whomever would listen. Your comments reflect hostility toward the country of your child’s birth. China didn’t owe you a child. Where is your sense of gratitude? Whether your petulant actions of refusing to submit postplacement reports jeopardizes other families involved in IA is irrelevant — you’re behaving like a consumer, not a parent. And that attitude will cause more damage to the IA program. Not to mention damage to your child’s relationship with her birth country.
As for your comment about Jesus … really, really bad form. Come on — we adoptive parents are better than that.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Let’s also remember the reason China asks for postplacement reports. It give China an opportunity to see children growing up happy and privileged and it allows social workers to provide support and assistance to families struggling in the early months of adoption. Sometimes we all need a reminder that this process isn’t about us — it’s about the welfare of our children.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:25 am
Hellofrommpgh-Wow, I can not believe you would say such hurtful things about your daughters birth country. They did provide you with the means to parent your daughter. You compare possible under age gymnasts to not filing your post reports??? The ones you promised to do! I am sad that they let you adopt a child who will clearly be raised to hate her birth country. You are obviously selfish and do not practice what you preach.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:06 am
I know we’re not supposed to slam others on this site, so I’ll be nice. Hellofrompgh, for the sake of your beautiful daughter, please re-examine your attitudes regarding her birthcountry. If you believe the Chinese are horrible, evil people, you’re going to project that to her. And she’s going to grow up thinking she came from horrible, evil people. Remember, these are the people who created your daughter, gave her life, and then gave you the gift and the privilege of having her for your daughter. Please find a way to see the beauty in that, and project THAT to your daughter.
And for the sake of those who come after you, please file your paperwork. I’m sure you wouldn’t want your protest to interfere with other families getting their children and other orphans being denied an adoption.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Here it,s an article of today China Daily, you can see as it,s said at the comentaries that number don,t much with the article.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-08/20/content_6952813.htm
August 20th, 2008 at 9:02 am
I don’t normally chime in but I read a comment this morning that needed to commented to.
Hellofrompgh, not sending in your post adoption reports in protest only hurts the rest of us waiting for children. Most likley you are only hurting your fellow families that are with your agency as they will take the hit from CCAA but it does reflect poorly on the whole adoption community. Our agency has incorporated a mandatory fee at time of submitting your paperwork to your SW in the case a family deceided to ignore the requirement of a post adoption report. Over all I think this action is rather selfish. Please think of everyone else and send in your paperwork. How would you feel if you read this and you were still waiting for your daughter? I suspect you would be upset/disappointed that a fellow adoptive parent was taking such a silly stance.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:01 am
All,
First, I want to apologize for causing the group so much additional stress in this already stressful process. But perhaps it was good for all of you to have someone to vent your anger and frustration at. Glad I could be of assistance. I will contact my agency ASAP to do the post placement reports. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Second, I do not believe that the CHINESE people are bad/evil. I do not hate them. I HATE communism and the Chinese government and the way they treat their people, particularly orphans, and Christians. I am teaching my daughter to love the Chinese people and to be proud she is Chinese but I am also teaching her that Communism is evil and is anti-God. I will also tell her about the problems with our own government.
Third, the Chinese government did NOT give me my daughter and I am NOT eternally grateful to them for her. God gave us our daughter and I thank HIM, not them, for her everyday. They were simply an instrument used by God to bring her into our home.
Forth, I will not apologize for talking about God. So if that is the RULE here I will leave the group and not comment again.
Good luck to all of you still in the process.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:57 am
I generally don’t like to attack a poster, but will respond as tactfully as I can. Hellofrompgh, as someone whose religious views may (or may not!) differ from others, I like the fact there is no religious discussion on this site. I respect RQ’s rules. That said, I can certainly understand your frustration and even your anger. I don’t want to tell you how to live, but it may be healthier for you and for your daughter to give up your anger and begin to accept many of the positive things about your daughter’s country of birth and be grateful for the fact they gave you this beautiful child, regardless of the process you went through to bring her home to you. Anger is a normal and natural emotion, but will not help your daughter learn about her roots.
As a family with an LID of 4/07, I will add your refusal to do the post-placement reports will not “hurt” the CCAA or Chinese government, it will only hurt those behind you in line. I would ask you to reconsider, for the sake of those families behind you, and for the sake of the children we’re longing to bring home. Please.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
To be honest, with our first daughter (currently in waiting for second daughter), I was very happy to send in the post placement report. I chose the pictures with pride that we had such a happy and lively child. I actually sent in the information WANTING to do it.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Hellofrompgh,
Please do your post placement reports. You made a commitment to do them. We had to state that in our to China letter requesting to adopt.
If you are so angry at China for falling short on their end, take a step back, take a deep breath, and contemplate your actions. I urge you to take the high road.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/6480606.html
Article from Chinese daily on fewer kids available for IA
August 20th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
For someone who professes to be filled with the love of God, you sure use the word “HATE” an awful lot. How sad for you.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
hellofrompgh,
I am very happy to hear that you have changed your mind on doing the post-placement reports. Thank you.
August 20th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
KareninCA, I’m with you. I was more than happy to send in my post-placement reports. I am a little disappointed I can’t keep sending them in, showing how proud I am of these incredible girls I’m privileged to raise. I think showing how much pride and love we have for our children shows they are valued, that they are important, that they matter and that we are treating them with that in mind. I think it’s just another chance for me to brag, really, and I never miss a chance at that!
August 20th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
All I can say is “WOW!”
Your daughter is going be very confused. Her first parents are possibly Communists. And even if they are not, no one will really know, and your daugher will have to assume that they are. As an adopted individual, it’s already confusing for them to find themselves as adopted children come of age…..You are teaching her to hate her first parents, because she will have to assume that China = conmunsm = first parents.
I think the key here is respect.
I’ve seen posts on forums from angry adoptees. The attitude I’m witnessing is an angry adoptee cocktail in the making.
August 20th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Also if you do your research, China is a country that embraces Communism, but not all people can be of the Communist Party. But they also embrace christianity, buddhism and muslim religions, debending on the region. I wonder which part of China you can hate with all of that in the mix. And how do you seperate it. If you ask a Chinese person that IS in the Communist party in China, they will tell you that they love their country and their identity. Not everyone in China is kept down. In fact, those that do join the Party are the priviliged ones. And it seems that most Chinese are proud of their country.
OK so I guess I said more than just “WOW” but…..WOW
I hope you find peace, hellofrompgh.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
KarenInCa, you took the words out of my mouth.
I would have to say a future child would be out of the question nes pas?
August 20th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
hellofrompgh, thanks for the apology and for being big enough to reconsider and send in your post placement reports. I would think that seeing happy children would encourage IA, not discourage it. That’s a way to get a message back to China.
Also, no one has a problem with you holding strong views about God, but when everyone talks about their religious views, it tears apart cohesiveness in diverse groups. What DOES hold us together is a love of the children of China (and I dare say for children from around the world). There are others here with strong religious views the same or similar to yours, but they understand that bringing them up lends itself to flame wars, which deflects attention from the reason we’re here: to support each other (which includes venting sometimes), educate each other, and promote adoption of children needing loving homes. If you’re strong in your faith, then you know what you know and can keep a quiet surety without making others feel uncomfortable. I hope you understand. The rules truly are to help everyone feel welcome and comfortable and to keep the focus on our common bond.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:55 am
For goodness sake people! She already explained herself and said she WOULD file the post placement. Why don’t you cut her some slack? Everyone has different/complex emotions as a result of going through this! I have never posted here before - not ever - but I can’t believe the way you are attacking her and twisting her words! It’s pretty obvious why, too (and it’s not the post placement thing). Why don’t we move on now and be nice, okay?
August 21st, 2008 at 9:17 am
Hellofrompgh,
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for contacting your agency!!!!
Jess,
Nicely said!
sulamie,
Please remember that certain key words, known only to RQ, trigger a post to be “moderated”. When I posted HOURS before Hellofrompgh responded, my response was placed on moderation. If you have never had a post placed on moderation it means that you must wait for RQ to approve it. I would be willing to bet that some of the other responses you are referring to were also on “moderation” and therefore a delayed response.
Another of the small things to keep in the back of our minds when carrying on a cyber conversation.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I will try to remember that when carrying on my cyber conversations. My own post was in moderation, btw.
I hope others will remember that just because someone mentions God in a post it doesn’t mean they are preaching or carrying on a religious discussion. Re-read RQ’s rules - it doesn’t say you can’t mention God at all. I can understand everyone being upset about the post placement, but slamming her on the other stuff was uncalled for.