State Department 2008 FY stats
The State Department has released a pdf file showing worldwide stats for the 2008 fiscal year (October 1, 2007 – September 30, 2008).
According to the pdf, total adoptions from China on IR3 and IR4 visas were 3,902. There were 7 adoptions on an IH3 visa, which I believe means there were 7 adoptions that came under the Hague. At any rate, the pdf puts the total at 3,909, while their official stats page puts it at 3,254.
State Department numbers:
1998 4,243 (per month, 354)
1999 4,108 (per month, 342)
2000 5,058 (per month, 422)
2001 4,705 (per month, 392)
2002 4,677 (per month, 389)
2003 6,857 (per month, 571)
2004 7,038 (per month, 587)
2005 7,903 (per month, 659)
2006 6,492 (per month, 541)
2007 5,453 (per month, 454)
2008 3,909 (per month, 326) or 3,254 (271 per month)
And, as has been pointed out before, back in 2005 special needs adoptions were less than 10% of the total, and they are currently over 30% of the total. So, NSN adoptions have dropped much more drastically than those numbers show.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Going with the higher number, I think that means around 2,500 NSN adoptions (SN adoptions have likely increased again).
IF they do the same number this year, which is extremely unlikely since they did 40% fewer in 08, that means it will be a year to do March 2006 alone.
I’m sure China is happy to have been #2 in 2008, but with Guatemala closing, does that mean they’ll drop that much more in 2009 to not be back at #1…
November 18th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Wow – the 2008 numbers are lower than any previous year. And with the increasing proportion of SN adoptions – it seems clear they are scaling back on NSN adoptions. I suppose that could always change but I’m not counting on it…
November 18th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Yes, It really does look dismal……..The numbers are about the same as 10 years ago……..
November 18th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I figure that NSN adoptions are down in 2008 vs. 2005 by about 68%. SN accounted for 10% of the total in 2005 I believe and it will be at least 30% in 2008.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
I feel like crying today… With a 3/2007 LID I’m about out of hope. But I can’t close the door. I just wish China would make a statement – it would be so much easier if THEY said to move on…
November 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
these numbers reinforce my thoughts that March 06 will take a full year and that 2006 will not be fully referred for at least 3 more years. Maybe 5.
AW
November 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Of course there wil lbe a lot of decisions made by PAPs in that amount of time that could change the dynamic but SN will remain popular and as long as folks can adopt within a reasonable time frame through the SN route the dynamics will not change that much no matter how many folks find another route…….unless a mass exit from the program occurs.
Nasty thoughts and not fun to think about I know. It is a reality for many though. Sad but true.
AW
November 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Ouch
November 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
it could take a year to get through march 2006 and if they continue to take applications during that year then when they finish there will be 45 months of dossiers waiting!!!!!!!!! There are already 33 months waiting.
November 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
64% of my agenices total adoptions this year were SN and they were only part of the SN program for seven of those 10 months.
November 18th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Hello everyone,
This is my first post, however I’ve been living on the site for the past four months. Our LID is 4.5.06 (originally, it was 3.7.06, but we were blessed with a bonus baby shortly after log in and our dossier was placed on hold and then re-instated). We are working with a respectable agency and last week, in some desparation, emailed our social worker who reassured me that we’d meet our daughter (I was shocked b/c most of the time the agency gives our no “promises” and certainly no empty encouragement). She did say the “light at the end of the tunnel was still a flicker” but that it was still there. In a reference letter for funding, our agency stated that they anticipated we would receive our referral “in 2009.” From the comments here, it’s looking like maybe 2010….
November 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Sobering …
November 18th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
i have read on another site that referrals maybe on there way….or coming soon….has anyone else heard anything?
November 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
We have a mid May 06 LID and we are thinking we have two more years to go.
November 18th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
We have a mid May 06 LID as well…our guestimate is March 2010 for referral.
November 18th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Hi
I know how everyone is feeling. We have no children and a LOD 1-07. I finally had to let go of this dream. When we started thinking of adoption we were 31 and 41. We will be 35 and 44 in just a few months. Another 4-5 years and we are looking at close to 40 and 50. I already spent 8 yrs. of my life wanting a baby sooo badly, I put everything on hold. No vacations, ect. We couldn’t afford to travel and do fertility treatments. Then we couldn’t afford vacations ect, and afford to adopt. My last vacation was 1998. I have spent years avoiding baby showers, and family gatherings. I have spent weeks at a time not sleeping. Of course, this does stress a marriage after a long time. We went to a foster to adopt meeting and I couldn’t do it. They made it clear the top priority is that the children go back to the biological parents. You could love a child for possibly years and then have to give them back. I can’t go through that. We are going to start enjoying our lives without children. After 3 yrs., we are taking our honeymoon. We are making a list of places we can travel. It just isn’t fair to expect to ask my husband to be a new father at 50. (of course I know this isn’t an issue for all people). He would have to put off retirement. when are paperwork needs to be re-newed for a third time, we are not doing it. I guess what it all comes down to is finding peace within yourself. Life is so short. Be happy. Good luck to everyone who will soon have to make the same choices.
November 18th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
I can definately say if we were lid 4/3/06, I would probably pull out, I think we can hold on until the beginning of 2010…..
November 18th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
While it doesn’t change the fact that the wait is still going to be long, we need to keep in mind that these numbers are for the US only. China has increased the number of countries it has adoption agreements with, Italy being the most recent addition. Unless we can put together the numbers from all the countries participating in Chinese adoptions, we can’t say with any absolute certainty that total number of adoptions are down. The US may simply be getting a smaller percentage of that total as more PAP’s worldwide join the wait. I also have no doubt that SN is indeed increasing. However, again, we need to keep in mind what other countries are doing. Many of the other participating nations are more restrictive than the US when it comes to allowing international SN adoptions into their countries. Some have tight restrictions on what degree of SN they will allow their citizens to adopt, while a few will not allow SN adoptions at all. So, here we may be seeing the reverse of what I said pertaining to the overall numbers. It may be that the while the US is getting a smaller percentage of the overall adoption numbers, we are getting a higher percentage of the SN adoptions.
The only thing we can glean from these stats is what is happening in the US, not what is happening with the China Adoption program as a whole, world wide.
November 18th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
luvbugsmom
US adoptions account for roughly 60% of the placements – Your are correct that other countries are involved and may increase depending on the year, but big picture wise not to a level that would skew the numbers more than a couple of percent – As a relative number IA is down approximatly 50% over the last four years – same with russa, korea, kasikstan.
November 18th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
To get an idea of what is happening worldwide you might want to check out this post:
http://chinaadopttalk.com/2008/01/16/comparing-and-analyzing-numbers/
Doesn’t include this year, but it’s shows the past three years.
November 18th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Thanks for posting that link RQ. I saved that post on my computer and it’s the one I always look at. I’m very interested to see what the numbers for 2008 will be when if/when those become available in January. I knew they would be bad, but they are even worse than I imagined.
For those in other countries, while we do often post and discuss US numbers, the international figures mirror the same declines. You can easily see this from RQ’s link to her post on 1/16/08.
November 18th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
It is not just China, IA is on the decline all round. When we adopted our dd 5 years ago it was with a multi country agency. The had programs with India, Georgia, Russia,
Guatemala, China and Nepal. They were not licensed to adopt from Ethiopia, and Haiti. In that short time they have closed most of the IA except for China. However, they are no longer accepting applications for China and they are not provided with any SN’s files. They are only concentrating on domestic adoptions, which is pretty big for them, and the waiting families already logged in for China. Those programs that are still open are being flooded with applications, one is Ethiopia.
November 18th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
“wait4ever”…my DH and I are in a similar position. Our LID 1/22/07 and both of us are in therapy to help determine if we should just back out of adoption and travel the world. I am older than my husband by 3 1/2 years. I have an intense career and the older I get the more tired I become. I will be 40 and I know that is not old, but I feel old and I feel tired and quite frankly chasing this ‘dream’ is taking a physcial and emotional toll. I have asthma, hypothyroid since I was 14 y/o, I get tired easily and struggle to lose weight d/t hypothyroid. My sister just had our families first baby and I get tired just watching the child.
I don’t know if I want it as much as I did years ago. I am in therapy to determine if closing this awful chapter is coming from a rational point or from a depressed point. My DH is not at the same place, but then again he is still young and in reasonable good health. I am not willing to wait for some endless time, putting life on hold. People say just live your life…Really?! Not that easy with some large ‘what if’ out there. I want info. I don’t care if it is negative, right now I prefer that than some pie in the sky, rose colored glasses… speculation.
November 18th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
hello everyone. I was LID 8/14/07 for NSN baby and I switched to SN 2 months later and on 4/23/08 I was given a referral for a gorgeous baby girl with cleft lip and palate that was listed as severe. Long story short, we are home over 2months with our angel and she has had her cleft lip repaired and palate scheduled for february repair. she is a joy!! Had we not switched, not only would the wait be on, but we would have never been connected to this absolute light in our lives. she is so smart I cant stand it.
I urge you all to CONSIDER any type of special need, to investigate special needs, to educate your selves, many special needs that are listed according to CCAA arent truely special needs hardly at all, but more like little procedures or surgeries that need to be done. For example, cleft lip, palate, perforated anus, extra digit, etc.
I don’t presume to tell you all what to do, but there was a parent traveling in my travel group of 11 couples, with only 1 SN (us) couple and 2 out of the other 10 “normal” babies had (1) hepatitis and (1) CMV. So with a “normal baby” you don’t necessarily get “normal”. With SN you are atleast going in with both eyes wide open.
November 18th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
shaziaz1 – unfortunately not all agencies have SN.
It’s not an option for us.
November 18th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
We are in it for the long haul and hoping that it really won’t take another 5 years to get there. But we will wait.
Hoping everyone keeps their heads high and think happy thoughts..
11-23-2007
November 18th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
With SN, you’re not always going in with both eyes open because sometimes it’s a lot more severe than initially reported … One of my friends went SN thinking the baby had a hip malformation and it turned out the baby really had Cerebral Palsy.
There are never garanties (in both programs) …
R.
November 18th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Hello all
Wow – it is so difficult to know where to be – I agree with one of the above post. It would be a blessing for me – that if the CCAA is going all SN – and intentionally slowing NSN down to a crawl – that they make an official announcement – any thoughts on why they would not do this? It seems that they are harming there program by not being more upfront.
November 18th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
DebL,
I know how you feel. I have been on and off anxiety meds for 8 months. I try to look at the positive side. We can sleep in whenever we want. We can travel the world.(We are starting in early 2009). We can enjoy our nephew and god childeren and give them back. We will be financially well off. I can work without interruption. Just some “positive “things. Of course there will be days I will feel like crying. I have a closet full of little girl things I have collected over the last 3 years. I think you have to put your emotional health first. Every couple will have to make their own decisions. I think not listening to family advise is important. They mean well, but they will never really unstand infertility and failed adoptions unless they live through it. Whatever you decide, I wish you both the very best. LID 1-07
November 18th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
I also want to share my viewpoint. When we did our first adoption, there was a great possibility that it would never happen due to corruption and overthrow of the government It was very frustrating, depressing and all consuming.
We knew the little girl we were going to adopt through photographs (many) and medical information. However, I resigned to the fact that this adoption may never happen, and I accepted it. It wasn’t going to be easy, but we had lived well without children for 13 years and if it wasn’t going to happen then I would still be OK. Thankfully, everything worked out. Since then we have gone on to adopt our ds who is SN’s (the joy of our hearts) and another little girl through disruption. We are truly lucky and feel very happy that we have a little family of our own.
I often hear people say that they cannot imagine life without their children, although I wouldn’t want it that way,
I can imagine my life without children. It would be just as great but different. I have friends who quit the adoption process last year, they have never felt better in their lives.
This was the right decision for them. They travel all over the world and for the first time they enjoy their families without all the heartache.
In the end, you have to do what is right for you. If you feel that staying in line is what you want to do then that is what you are suppose to do. Even if you are considering pulling out, it doesn’t hurt to just keep in line and try to enjoy what life has to offer. Our moments and memories are short, and we really do have to focus on making the most of what comes and the least of what goes, otherwise you would always be sad. I use to feel this way, until I saw some tragic things happen in friends lives and it really did put a whole lot of things in perspective. Without children I realized that I do have a lot of thing to be grateful for and with children I feel the same.
November 18th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
wait4ever and DebL,
I also know what you are going through so best of luck with whatever path you chose in life. We have gone through 10 years of infertility, the stillbirth of our little Angel and miscarriage followed by several years in the adoption process. My husband has undergone treatment for depression. We are both 45, can’t switch country and guess we would be looking at another 4-5year wait for China. LID 11-06. Our paperwork was due for renewing a few months ago and we have made the heart breaking decision to call it a day. I can write this now without bursting into tears, which wouldn’t have been possible only a couple of weeks ago. So I am moving on, seeing this as a chance for new beginning. Travel, getting involved in volunteering abroad, playing a more important part in the lives of my nieces and nephews. All the best to nay other making tough decisions. Love to all of you.
November 18th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
DebL and Wait4Ever, I definitely feel your pain.
As of yesterday we are no longer planning to adopt from China. We sent our official letter to our agency stating our decision. Our LID is Sept06 and by my estimate we were looking at 2011. In anticipation of this decision we spent some of our money on a major vacation. We had never really done a honeymoon or vacation together beyond weekend getaways and it certainly was a wonderful thing. I’m not sure now what life with hold, but I hope by stepping out of the line, another family get to the front that much more quickly.
Its been a long road since making the adoption decision in 2005, but I have faith life will be fine.
Good luck to you all. I wish you well.
November 18th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Thanks everyone. It is nice to hear everyone’s personal stories and advice without being judged. Thank you RQ for this site. It is the only place to talk to others in the same situation.
November 18th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Maybe it’s time to take a break for me. I come here every day, but (no one’s fault, but my own) I feel like it’s just being beaten over the head. At this rate, I probably will never hold my little girl in my arms. We are a family of 3, and I need to count my blessings. As we are a very happy family of 3.
We’ll never pull our paperwork out, but I don’t know if that means anything anymore.
I’m just very sad, and hurt. Thank you RQ for always trying to get all the latest information. I really do appreciate it, but I just don’t think I can take it anymore. I need to just live day to day now, and not expect another child. I don’t know that it was meant to be for us, after all. Time to just concentrate on the angel I do have, and not worry so much anymore.
November 18th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I also want to thank all of you. “chickensoupforchina”…I too had to take a break. I sent all my China adoption chat groups to ‘junk mail’ for several months.
As I read all of our personal stories, I tear up, the pain is so palatable. Depression and anxiety runs in my family and thus runs with me. I think it was around March when I could no longer fool myself…and realized that having a child may not happen. I spiraled into a deep depression. I had bought special quilt patterns for my mom to sew, years of buying every little book I loved, rocking chairs, beds,clothes, dolls, and to realize that I will not be able to share this…oooo the pain. Too hard to continue yet to hard to say a final good bye. I too know my life will be fine w/ our without a child. I am a person of faith and it can be hard to figure out what the Devine’s plan is for me.
Many blessings to all of us…Love,DebL
November 18th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
2qts4me well said.
My husband and I have been married for over 11 years and remain childless – if it part of a divine plan then we will be parents if not we will still be as happy and fulfilled ad we were before we started this process in June.
Thank you for helping me look at all the things I am thankful for.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
This thread has some of the saddest posts ever…and they say exactly what I’ve been thinking. We’re 45 and almost-44 with a late April 06 LID. It just seems more and more incomprehensible.
Like you, chickensoup, I feel like I should just give up and be grateful for our one perfect daughter. But she’s been counting on a baby sister…since she was 2.5 (she’s now 6). Can she give it up so easily?
It’s the vacillation that bugs me…I’m about to give up (if not by pulling our paperwork, at least by pulling back from the idea of another daughter), and then the CCAA sends that bizarre one-day (or 1/2 day) batch. Or I’m about to give up and then I have my first-ever dream about the baby, a vivid one in which I feel her little frame in my arms, notice the thickness of her black hair, and contrast her face with my first daughter’s.
The indecision will make me crazy.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
These posts of families pulling their dossiers are heartbreaking. These are loving couples who have done so much, waited so long, thought so hard, felt so deeply. I find it impossible not to be bitter as I watch friends give birth to their third children since we started this process. It is very hard this holiday season not to feel like we’re being dragged along. The only thing that keeps me waiting with a late April 06 LID is some underlying, hard-to-articulate gut feeling that someday I’ll be paired with the most perfect child (for me) and this whole big mess of adopting from China will make sense.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Maybe tonight I’m just in a “glass is half full” kind of mood. I was kind of shocked by a previous comment and I’m paraphrasing here, “I can definitely say If I was a LID of 4/3/06, I would probably pull out”. WOW…What a statement…We are currently LID 4/24/06 and there is no way we would pull out. Granted, when we started our dossier we were told 6-8 months, but we have put our blood, sweat and tears in to this process and we are not backing down now. We have also experienced Immigration losing our file when we moved to a different state (and it is still MIA). We choose to view all of these hurdles (especially the time factor) as part of the story of how we will come to be a family of three. We look at is we only have 66 days of LID ahead of ours. However long it takes to meet our child, the one destined to be ours is how long it takes. Yes, we our experiencing the same anticipation and frustration as most people, but we also are experiencing the hope that this process brings to us as individuals. That hope helps us imagine being a family of three, what will our child look like, what faces will this child make, what toy will be the favorite, and on and on. HOPE will lead to reality for us. Hang in there everyone.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
anyone LID 2006, please dont pull out, b/c you ACTUALLY WILL BE UNITED WITH YOUR BABIES, PROBABLY IN 2009 FOR SURE!!! it’s those 2007 LIDs that make’s me sad. My dear friend is 7/07 LID and I pray daily for a speed up, which I feel WILL HAPPEN, now that the damn olympics are finally over. please, hang in there…your child is worth it…she is coming….
November 19th, 2008 at 12:26 am
I just wanted to say to all of you that are struggling & facing the difficult decision to pull your dossier to consider this: IF you meet the new guidelines, do not renew your paperwork & become a Hague case. We realize that there may be some unknown risk with this as Hague is so new, but as it seems now as long as you meet the May 07 guidelines it should not cause you any problems~at least as we understand it. We certainly are FAR from the experts, but we were due for our renewal of our I-171H & it was going to cost us major in the new state where we live to get everything updated. (@ $2000.00-$3000.00 each time) Not to mention with an LID of 07/20/07 we are looking at renewal who knows how many times! One of the agencies we inquired with about doing our update said that they are advising all of their clients that are so far out to just let their I-171H expire & to sit back & let things be for a while. This offers you the oportunity to leave your dossier where it is, you keep your place in line & don’t have to do anything further until you get closer in the line. Then, when you are closer you can re-do your paperwork, fingerprints & homestudy. This way, you only renew it once more verses what could be two, three or more times! For us, now we can put this on the back burner, explore other options if we want to, live our lives~but still keep our place in line & our dossier in place. This way we can watch the China program & the CCAA for a while as well to maybe be able to get a better idea as to what is going to happen without spending thousands of dollars more on a process that might be for not. We just have a lot going on right now~some possibilities that might & might not work out. This gives us time if nothing else. Is there risk involved? Maybe, but to us this whole process at this point is a huge risk & for us this offered us the best of all options. I am sure this school of thought is not popular with some as it allows people to stay in line who may pull out later so the line so to speak doesn’t drop off as quickly due to attrition as it otherwise might, but for a lot of us I really do think that this is a great option-As long as you meet the May 07 guidelines. Our understanding is that if you do not, you can not proceed as a Hague case.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Yes, they don’t want to be number 1 in referrals. But other IA programs are growing so don’t think China’s numbers are tied to what is happening with Guatemala’s program specifically.
Hugs to those waiting and daily checking in to find every 30 days or so a few more days referred.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:23 am
oops! in my 2:33pm post yesterday I meant, if our LID was NOT 4/3/06, we would probably pull out, but we can handle until early 2010, but pray it is sooo much sooner!!!
November 19th, 2008 at 8:54 am
What I am reading, and feeling, is that a lot of us have moved beyond the anger, and even the depression to some sort of acceptance that this is out of our control, and while this dream might not ever come true for most of us, we’ll be ok whatever happens. We’ve all wasted so much time and effort chasing something that we might not ever have, and we all need to start living in the day. This is an amazing group of people. Peace to all of us.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:10 am
It would seam to me that at some time we should see a speed up just on the bases of attrition. To all families with 06 LID’s – hold on, you are so close and have waited so long.
Still paper-chasing in AZ
November 19th, 2008 at 10:33 am
kms –
only two countries had over 2,000 visa’s issued to the US last year; China and Guatemala. Guatemala was slightly over 4,000. Take them out of the mix, then China would have to cut it’s numbers by at least half to be #2 next year. Or, other programs, like Ethiopia would have to double their numbers.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Reading these statistics does cause you to realize where the China adoption program is at today, I think. I’ve read through some of the posts and I just wanted to say to all of those who have had to make the tough decisions to pull out and continue their lives without children, that you will be happy. My sister and closest friend do not have children and are in their 50s so have no plans for children. This was not because of choice but because they never found Mr. Right. But they have moved on with their lives, are wonderful and caring aunts, have the time to devote to many, many worthwhile projects, and travel whenever and whereever they wish and with whomever they wish. Your lives will be fulfilling, but just in another way. May you all have peace with your difficult decision.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Please do NOT flame me. This is just my opinion.
But, I find it very telling (to me) that Guatemala’s numbers were 4,123 and China was 3,902. It’s almost as if China did as many referrals as they could and still make sure they were #2.
If that’s true, and that continues to be important to them in the next year, they would have to cut their numbers in half. In which case March 06 could take two years.
It’s possible Guatemala will re-open, but if they do, they won’t have the numbers they have had in the past….
Again, this is just my sense. It’s not that I think it’s true, just that I think it’s a possibility.
With a mid-May 06 LID we are starting to explore other programs. I’m crying as I write this. We may have to give up our dream of every becoming parents, much like some of the people who posted here.
And, even sadder, all the children who won’t find permanent homes.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Will attrition help with a speed up? Absolutely! The problem is that there is a large bottle neck and at current pace and at current perception w/ a LID of 1/22/07 a NSN referral maybe around 2013 or longer. So it will take at least another 4 years from now for a referral w/ my LID.
My DH feels that there is a secret quota…meaning…China gov’t says we only want around 800 referrals per month…if that is accomplished in 5 LID’s great, if that only gets us through 1 LID than it will only be one LID.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Noendinsight – I’m confused. When has it been implied or said that China want’s to be second or less with IA. Do you really think they track the IA #’s that closely?
Your post is causing me to have an anxiety attack.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Noendinsight – I’m confused. When has it been implied or said that China want’s to be second or less with their referrals. Do you really think they track the #’s that closely?
Your post is causing me to have an anxiety attack.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
DebL
I believe there is a quota too and my agency told me off the record they believe that to be the case as well.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Check out Center for Adoption Policy…they are expecting significant delays in Ethiopia adoptions. They also ask “how can China be considered a stable program anymore with an eight year wait. Very interesting to read!
November 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I just heard a respected documentary filmmaker speak at FCC, and he feels that it is to do with politics. If I understood what he was saying correctly, his view was that when China’s previous president was in power, he was very friendly with the west, and wanted to identify with the west so adoption to western nations was encouraged. The current president feels differently, and when they found that China was the number one country for international adoption, they then found out who was number two, and decided to adopt out that number of children so that they are no longer number one. Based on this, it sounds like there is a quota to me.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
It’s kind of hard to not be #1 when you have a FIFTH of the world’s population.
Compared with Guatamala? You’re talking about a population of approx 1.3 million people vs. 1.3 BILLION in China. China is over a thousand times bigger.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
collector182 -
I believe I saw the same speaker at a different time. He didn’t say quite exactly what you said, but he did say it was political and implied the numbers would continue to decline.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Noendinsight –
I agree that China is much bigger than Guatemala but Guatemala’s population is 14 million plus… not 1.3 million.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
How could China know in advance that they would have less adoptions than Guatemala? I’m not saying that China isn’t trying to scale back – but I’m not sure how they can predict that they will be number 2.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Grits – meant to type 13 – put in the decimal by accident and then did the math ;-)
So it’s 13 million vs. 1.3 billion. China is 100 time larger.
From the World Fact Book:
12,728,111 Guatamala
1,321,851,888 China
Thanks!
November 19th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
mdwaiting – I think what he meant was if China is placing 10,000 kids, and the second highest adoption country is placing 4,000, China decided to place under 4,000 rather than 10,000, and scaled back accordingly. He didn’t say they specifically wanted to be number two – they just don’t want to be number one. I asked him about the possibility of the orphanage donation increase spurring more orphanage directors to get babies paper ready, but his take on it was that it was one more thing they hope will deter prospective adoptive parents from choosing China.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I can’t see 5k deterring too many people. Friends of ours adopted from Russia and their donation was 14k.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I think they don’t want to close because they don’t want the question asked “what is happening to all these children?”
So they plan to continue to reduce the numbers, with a larger percentage of SN children in the total.
I think we are going to continue to see a lot of one and two day referral months.
Yesterday’s figures have depressed me more than anything at any point during this entire horrible process. It’s time for me to snap out of the denial I’ve been in and see this for what it is.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
If the next 2 batches of referrals are 1-2 days then we will be switching to SN. Either way, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
We were in our agencies SN program until the lost out because they aren’t hague accredited. Hopefully once (if) they are, we can have that option.
I know a lot of families with agencies who do not have SN programs.
November 19th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to say that we got our TA today! Yay, we are close to bringing home our Lucy now!!
Lisa
LID 3/27/06
November 19th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
“lucysmom”…Congratulations!!! Take lots of pictures and share…
November 19th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
DebL,
Thank you for the congrats. I will take lots of pictures for sure and be more than willing to share them. I will also continue to keep each of you still waiting in my thoughts. We have all felt the pain and the agony of this wait, and I wish there was something I could say or do to take that pain away for each of you, however I really don’t know what to say other than hang in there and if it is meant to be then it WILL happen. In the meantime we can only be good listeners for one another.
Hugs to all,
Lisa
LID 3/27/06
November 20th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Noend…
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if another country shot up in stats like Ethiopia. There are always programs that open and close. I’m not counting on that altering the stats from China either. Just don’t think we should be following Guatemala that closely to guess the next few years stats.
Actually there are very few adoptions from China if you look at it from a population percentage. But for some reason that never makes it into the reports or the articles and China is put into the position of being named 1 or 2 in IA even though % they are dead last.
November 20th, 2008 at 12:32 am
We are in the same place…..so close and so far away. The wait has been so difficult for everyone! I wish all of you the strength to hang on OR to let go. It is so unfair for China to continue to be so inconsistent, so unfair and so hurtful to us and all of the children. There are children out there and I cannot wrap my mind around how anyone in the position and with the power to bring positive change to the world and to provide an orphan with a family, would do what the Chinese government has done. Shame on them.
No-one knows what tomorrow will bring-it could all change next month. Lets hope………….
November 20th, 2008 at 12:51 am
DebL and Wait4ever, AmyfromMaine and Movingon,
you are acknowledging the trauma this wait is having on all of us (childless) people and acting in the best way for you – well done!. It is the hardest thing in the world to ACCEPT that the plan we had for a family will not happen and move beyond that mountain of emotion/expectations.
The world is SO child focused today – media/friends/family tell us that we should “live for our children” literally; it is only when you are childless (my DH and I are aged 45 with a LID of 4/07) that you realize how we have been largely DISMISSED by today’s society as irrelevant because we cant say: yes I have children who go to this school and so yes we are recognized in the community and yes we are valuable citizens who are totally immersed and wrapped in this world of nurturing children. How many times have we stood there for 45 minutes listening to a proud (and I don’t blame them!) mum or dad telling us about every intricate detail of their darling’s adventure. It happened to me recently at a party. It was only after a long while that the mum suddenly stopped mid-sentence and said, with tears welling up – oh – I so sorry I can’t imagine how painful this must be for you!
There is nothing anyone can say – or do to help or comfort those in our position. We have to help ourselves and heal ourselves. The Divine Plan is a wonderful way of understanding the otherwise seemingly meaningless pain we are experiencing. Who knows what we are really going to achieve for the world if we let this “family fantasy” go.
DH and I are staying in the NSN program at this stage and just dealing with the pain. I’m starting to get scared about the toll that is taking on my health etc. But, we just have no other options, (Infertility; No SN program in Australia; no local adoption; can’t qualify for other programs… so China NSN is it).
So well done guys for having the guts to reclaim your lives. We are not yet able to do that, but your blogs have been truly inspirational.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I haven’t been sleeping. I can’t stop thinking about all the children who will never find homes – NOT just from China, but from countless countries, the ones who don’t even have IA. They are haunting me.
I agree it’s best for a child to stay in country, but not in an institution at the expense of a family of their own.
While we are becoming more and more of a global society, IA is declining. That bothers me.
On another note, I did the math using the pdf stats…
Guatemala 4,123
China 3,902
Russia 1,861
Ethiopia 1,725
Korea 1,065
Vietnam 751
Ukraine 465
Kazakhstan 380
India 307
Columbia 306
Haiti 302
Philippines 291
Taiwan 267
Liberia 249
Nigeria 148
Mexico 105
Ghana 101
November 20th, 2008 at 11:11 am
JourneytoMia:
It’s completely untrue that you are unable to continue as a Hague case if you do not meet the new China requirements.
THE NEW MAY 07 CHINA REQUIREMENTS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT THE US GOVT WILL GIVE PERMISSION TO A US CITIZEN TO BRING AN ORPHAN INTO THE COUNTRY. And also, if it were true then it would mean that all singles who made it in prior to May 07 would be automatically excluded. As a single, I know (and it has been confirmed by my agency) that I can proceed as a Hague case.
To all the singles still out there – hang strong!
November 20th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Hello,
I want to encourage those of you who have not thought about other countries to please just consider it. Ethiopia has MANY children in need of homes. If your family would even consider a child over the age of 4, your adoption would take 6 months or less. The dossier is not difficult and the trip to Ethiopia is about 5 days in-country. There are of course infants available to adopt from Ethiopia and the process would take anywhere from 7 months to 18 months depending on the agency you choose.
Currently I work out of my home for the agency we used to bring home our beautiful baby girl. Our trip to Ethiopia was life changing in so many ways. The need for help in Ethiopia is extraordinary and you return home an activist in many ways. My daughter’s orphanage was small, with only about 20 children, but each of the children touched our hearts. The children are so well cared for and loved in Ethiopian orphanages that they exude a beauty only seen in Ethiopia.
Every month we have families sign up to adopt a baby girl or a baby boy, I was one of them, while our waiting healthy children sit. Currently we have a sibling group of a 6 year old girl and 5 year old brother, they are the most beautiful children you have ever seen. We have an adorable 5 year old boy and an 8 year old girl. We may have found a family for the 8 year old girl, who has been at the orphanage for over a year. She is so kind and sweet, we met her while picking up our daughter.
So if you can open your hearts to child in real need from Ethiopia please DO! Children over 4 in Ethiopia have little if no hope!
If you would like to ask me questions please call or email.
512.244.6444 or inadopt.texas@yahoo.com
Thanks,
Leah
http://www.adopthope.blogspot.com/
November 20th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Leah Reeves, Thanks so much for your post. My daughter has a new friend this year, adopted from Ethiopia at age 3.5. They are both 5 and this little girl is AMAZING. We are so happy that she has entered our daughter’s life (and ours too). If we were considering adoption again, Ethiopia would definitely be at the top of our list.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
got2bme~As I said in my post, we are FAR from the experts on this subject or any other in relation to all of this Hague stuff. All of the agencies that we spoke to in the greater Chicago area-about six of them told us that “as long as we meet the May 07 guidelines” that proceeding as a Hague case wouldn’t be an issue. They told us as long as we meet those new May 07 guidelines that we should be fine. They told us that if we did not meet the May 07 guidelines that we should most definitely stay current with our I-171H. Like I said, we have no idea & are not experts. We just try to do our research & listen to the agencies that are giving us our guidance. It sounds like you have your facts from your agency all sorted out. I assume from what you have said that you are logged in before the new guidelines took effect & are or have let your I-171H expire & are planning to proceed as a Hague case? Well, irregardless-best of luck to us all!
November 20th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
LEAH,
To our knowledge, maybe we are wrong but there are not many agencies in the US or the world who are able to get children in Ethiopia. In fact, ALL of the agencies we looked at on-line noted waited times of 18-24 months for an infant/toddler. I just read today too that children in Haiti are STARVING…..why in the &%$@! are these countries not adopting more children worldwide? The thought that we are all WAITING to love and care for a child makes me SICK knowing that there are SO many kids out there waiting. I really wish that someone out there would get this to the media! It is time to let the world know what is really going on in the adoption world.