Adult Adoptee Writings – Going back
I’m back on a theme today, that of whether it is important to take our kids on trips back to China. I’m just pointing to two articles today, both from the Asian Adult Adoptees of Washington site.
My answer is that, yes, I think it is important to take them back enough that they are comfortable talking about China from their own experience and memories. Enough that they don’t have to take my word for something, they have their own personal experience to draw from. If a school mate pops up with some inane and untrue “fact” about China, they can say “that’s ridiculous, I was there last summer and China is nothing like that” instead of saying, “my mom says China is nothing like that”.
I also don’t want either of my girls to have to take themselves back as an adult, seeing things for the first time. GG has been back and I can see that it really helps her to know for herself what China is like.
The next question is how often. I’m thinking that, for our family, once every three or four years. I don’t want every vacation to be of China. They need to see Washington DC as well as Beijing, right? But I want to take them back enough so it is in their memory, not just the memory of the pictures we took.
And I want them to know how to confidently sit down in a restaurant, order food, and eat it correctly. I don’t want China to be some mysterious place half way around the world. I don’t want it to be the stuff of daydreams. I want to take away the mystery long before they are old enough to go back by themselves.
Do you think it is important to take your kids back to China? I know that, amongst our travel group, there were several families that were of the opinion that it was a horrible place and they were glad they were never going to have to come back. I think that’s too bad. I mean, the adoption trip is not a vacation, but there is still time to explore and do the tourist thing here and there. And when you go back as tourists and get to decide where you’re going and what you’ll do, it can be a whole lot of fun.
But most of all, I just don’t want them to have to get on a plane by themselves one day and make the first trip back to China since they were adopted. When and if they make that trip on their own as an adult, I want them to know where they are going because they’ve already been there. I want it to be familiar to them when they get there.
Writings of Adult Adoptees Series
1. The Writings of Adult Adoptees – Tai Dong Huai
2. Adult Adoptee Book Recommendations
3. Adult Adoptee Articles from InformedAdoption.com
4. Adult Adoptee Writings from Anti Racist Parent
5. Adult Adoptee Blogs – Harlow’s Monkey
6. More from Adult Adoptees – Adoption Survivor
7. Adult Adoptee Writings – Going back
January 30th, 2009 at 9:12 am
We are planning a trip to China in December when DD will be almost six. One reason why we are going now is because the building she lived in will not be used by the orphanage for housing children in a few years. We want her to see the room where she lived.
We plan to go back to China roughly every four years. It’s an expensive trip so we will start saving for the next trip the moment we get back from this one. We will do trips to other places in the U.S. or abroad as well.
I echo your reasons why we will be making the trips back. I think it is better to go earlier than later, esp. since I have heard of so many kids who have trouble dealing with the visit to the SWI when they get older. But this is something each family has to work out for themselves–there is no one right age to visit or no magic number of trips that must be made.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:22 am
We plan to make the whole family trip ( 2 bio sons) when our dd is 10 whe she still thinks things are new and wow – verse 14 when the dirt, poverty and crowed streets will not be as easily accepted or viewed favorably.
Don’t you think that the parents of the children who “hatred” China ( dont go in August) are setting themseves up for some of the anger expressed in previous posts – To say I hated where you can from canont be a good first step.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Goodness, when we first landed back home the thought of going back was more like no how no way. My husband still tongue in cheek says, I will drive you girls to the airport, next time.
But I felt we never really experienced China, we experienced a China Adoption. I want to see China, and I want that for my daughter. I think it would be great to do a Spring Festival in China.
RQ…… they don’t have to take my word for something, they have their own personal experience to draw from. If a school mate pops up with some inane and untrue “fact” about China, they can say “that’s ridiculous, I was there last summer and China is nothing like that” instead of saying, “my mom says China is nothing like that”.
That sums it up for me. Things become, not just a story they hear, but real. I also think is important to do more than once and before she becomes a teen. So I see us back at least 2x before then. After that she will have a say.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:38 am
We will take our daughters back when they are a bit older. However I am wondering if going on a planned ‘heritage’ trip or designing our own trip would be better. I’ve heard that with the ‘heritage’ trips that there is no down time. We want to be able to rest and enjoy our time there, not just ‘see’ everything in a tour group. Any insights?
Alex
http://www.fromchinawithlove.blogspot.com
January 30th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Yep. We will go back for a second trip….But 1st, we need a first trip. Perhaps a planned heritage trip with a few days added to the beginning or the end would be good. Unless we become very good with the language and culture, it would be very difficult for my husband and I to provide an authentic Chinese experience.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:44 am
I definately think it is important to take trips back. I had a friend in college who was the daughter of Chinese immigrants although she herself had never been to China. When we went to Beijing to study abroad it was really hard on her. She felt like she should fit in or was expected to, but really felt as uncomfortable in the new surroundings as the rest of us. And she had been raised in the Chinese culture.
I am excited to take trips to China and Kazakhstan. Of course we will wait until our children are old enough to remember. Part of me really wants to take my parents and sister to Kazakhstan to share with them the wonderful experiences we had – even before our son will remember. I just wish it was not so expensive to travel!
January 30th, 2009 at 9:46 am
“there were several families that were of the opinion that it was a horrible place and they were glad they were never going to have to come back.”
IMO, this is HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can I have their phone numbers? ;-)
January 30th, 2009 at 9:55 am
We’ve always planned to take our girls back — and are already planning to do so. The problem is, they’re only 2 and 3 years old, so they’re not ready yet!
I’ve always heard that the optimal age for a “homeland” tour is 8-12 years old (before they hit the teenage years), and I’m thinking the early side of that range will be right for our girls. That means we might be going back in 6-9 years.
About your travel group, RQ, we had a couple of folks in our first TG with a similar attitude. Hated China, and couldn’t wait to get home. Their attitude seemed to be, “we got what we wanted, now get us out of here!” I felt sad for them.
Our family loved both of our trips to China and cannot wait to go back. We were able to travel to our older daughter’s SWI on that adoption trip, but were refused when we requested going to our 2nd daughter’s CWI. That was frustrating, but couldn’t be helped. We are anxious to see the place she was cared for for 19 1/2 months — pictures just don’t tell the whole story.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:59 am
I plan on taking my daughter on her first trip at age 8 or so with us – so that she’s seeing it for the first time with us.
Then hopefully a few years later she’ll want to go on a cultural tour with a group. I just want her to be with us the first trip.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:01 am
We are planning a trip back once our children are 8-14 age range. The trip for us is a major expense and not something we can do every 4 years. We were not planning to take our DD when we started the adoption application because we thought she might be about 4 years old. Now we think she will be 6 3/4 to 7 years old and we are trying to discuss taking her. The problem we are having is that our birth son is now only 3 (expected to be 4+) at referral time is too young to take and we worry about how he will feel being left behind with Grandma & Grandpa.
We know his too young to take with us and he is NOT a good traveler. He just wants to stay home and tells us about it all the time. When his older sister asks if she is going to China with us we have told her that we are not sure and he states that he wants to stay home with Grandma & Grandpa so he can get our home ready for his new sister and thinks she should stay too to help …… because…. I quote… “getting ready is hard work and I am such a little boy I can’t do it all by myself!”
Our large China only agency has been offering pre China trips and helping travel groups that have older children get together again and make the return trip. Our 1st travel group has 2-3 families that have said we hope to return in the future. We think it would be a great re-bonding experience and give the girls others their own age to talk with during the trip who will be sorting through the same emotions.
Pixie Pam
LID 5/2006
January 30th, 2009 at 10:07 am
SomeDay: We are not going with a tour group. We will hire a guide to help us arrange for the SWI visit and for some other activities in DD’s province. However, we plan to spend a day or two on our own in province just walking around.
We may hire guides for when we are in other areas as well, but we will not have one with us all the time.
One nice thing about the tours that we will be missing is the companionship of other families and friends. Also, I have been told that you don’t have to do all the planned activities so if you want a day to chill, you can do that.
For those of you who want more info about planning trips back, we have found our SWI group to be very helpful. Frin that group, we found that there is one guide most of the returning families use to arrange SWI visits, and we will use her too. Other families have posted their itineraries so we can get ideas from that. Also Yahoo has a Homeland Travel group for families planning trips back to China–and that has been tremendously helpful too.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
We will definately take our daughter back to visit China–probably around age 7 or 8 the first time. I think most of the families in our group want to go back and we have discussed going as a group (proably not the whole original group–but a good chunk of us). Our agency helps coordinate trips and given how well the original trip went I would not hesitate to have them organize a heritage trip for us.
FYI on bringing the younger kids…in our group one of the families brought their older daughter who turned 4 not long after we came home. I can honestly say she totally surprised me by how easily she traveled with our group. She was a trooper!! She is also a Chinese girl so it was exciting for her to be there and to be part of the trip to meet her Mei Mei. That family had grandmother along to help out and of course each child is different–but I would not rule it out if I were you. At our travel meeting we thought the family was crazy when they said they were bringing a child that young but she was awesome!
January 30th, 2009 at 10:50 am
We plan to take our daughter when she’s around 12. We loved China, and I’d love to go back more often. It’s just not financially feasible for us. My sister adopted about six months after I did. We’ve talked about taking our families at the same time. I think this would be a wonderful way to visit again.
DH and I have also talked about taking sabbaticals and going to teach in China. I’d like to go for a year. He’d like to go for a semester. He’s a math teacher, and I’m a business teacher. Obviously, we’d apply for one of the programs looking for English teachers. If we can do this, we’d get at least one more trip to China.
January 30th, 2009 at 10:54 am
When we decided to adopt internationally, one of the deciding factors on where to adopt from was to choose a place that we knew we would be excited about visiting for the rest of our lives!
Our daughter was almost two at adoption, and our plan is to make our first trip when DD turns 5 or so. It depends on when she really starts understanding her story and wants to know more. Then, we guessed that we will go every few years (maybe 4 or so) just to see and learn more.
We think at this point that not every trip will be to her home province. Maybe the first trip and then every other, or something of that nature. China is such a vast country, with so much history…it would take a lifetime to see and learn all there is.
I should add that our dauther loves to travel. She has been on nine flights (two international) since she came home a year ago. So, we are really luck in that regard.
We were there during the awful snowstorms last January, so we didn’t get to see nearly enough of China!
January 30th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Thanks for all of these posts the last days RQ! I actually think they are so important that they should qualify under the “important posts”.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:54 am
As for Heritage Tour vs doing it yourself… if you’re not comfortable going yourself then a heritage tour is better than nothing. But for our family, it’s just a family vacation. I don’t want to make it all about their “heritage”. Sure, they’re getting that, but I don’t want to focus on it. We can do Yellowstone one year and Guilin and surrounding areas another year. And then DC one year and Beijing the next.
Cost wise, if you plan it in advance it can be cheaper than the same length vacation in the States. Hotels are cheaper in most places in China, food is way (way, way, way) cheaper, prices to get into places are also a lot less. And if you shop around and buy far enough ahead of time then plane tickets aren’t so bad (not like they are when you buy them a week or two before you’re leaving).
I could easily make a trip to China cost less than a trip to Disney.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I don’t think I said that right.
This goes back to that part about culture being part of the family, not something specifically for the child.
I don’t want to make a big deal of “we’re going back to China so you can experience it.” It just feels better to me that we’re vacationing in China because it’s where we want to go this year. No pressure on my girls to absorb whatever “culture” they can. It’s a vacation. I’m betting they pick up more culture by not trying to than they would if that were the purpose.
Going back to the orphanage is a bit different. When you do that you have to talk about it. And you are obviously going just so the child can see it for themselves. So that trip, or at least a day or two of that trip, has to be more than a vacation. When we go to one of the girls’ orphanages it will be easy to do it as a short side trip. The other one is a bit more involved, but I’ve found an area not too far away that will make a nice adventure and we’ll be doing that along with the orphanage.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
I’m really sad to read that so many in your group had such a negative experience in China. For me, it was the opposite. I feel like it’s second home to our family. I do want my daughter to go back as often as we can. While China is certainly different from our country, I didn’t find it horrible. In fact, I felt a sense of peace there. I thought it was beautiful.
Yes, I feel it’s very important for our family to back and visit as often as possible.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
We loved China and can’t wait to go back. We feel like we experienced China adoption the first time and a little of China. We were in province by ourselves but were so tiredwe didn’t do as much as we would have liked to do. Of course, our focus was on our child’s adjustment and staying healthy and reasonably rested. Now want to experience more China. It is interesting to hear that as young as 8 is recommended to go back the first time. I was expecting older, but I suppose this makes sense. Our son came home at 4 yo so we had better start saving now! We will also make it a vacation, but would like to inlcude a trip to his province and possibly SWI. At what age do you think it is appropriate to visit the SWI? I know it depends on the child, but I thought I would ask. Bailey
January 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
We’re considering going back not this summer but next summer. TT will be five. We’re traveling in the states this summer and we’ll decide for sure when we see how she does on that trip. If we decide she’s not ready then we’ll wait another year. Either way, she’ll be either five or six on her first trip back.
We will not do any orphanage visits on that trip, though.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Excellent topic and post RQ. I’ve really enjoyed all of your posts this past week or so. I’m learning a lot and thinking a lot from the information you are bringing to us. I can’t tell you enough how much you are doing for the community.
Regarding vacations in China, I feel the same way as you do on every point. I plan to take DD on vacation at about age 5 or 6. I think she’ll be old enough to travel well. And, most important, I think she’ll be young enough to enjoy it before the heavier emotional processing happens at 10-14 years old. I want her to experience China as any vacation so she can internalize all of that and incorporate it into her thought processes when she is older.
I also plan to go back 2 or 3 times while she is a child. If she goes there in her college years, I want her to be comfortable. If she grows up to have an international job, I want her to speak Chinese and feel comfortable being in China. I know that vacations are very small in terms being very comfortable traveling in a foreign country. But it is one component that will help.
I hope that we can go to her province someday and that she can see her SWI. She’s from a remote location and it’s not likely that there will be a heritage tour for these girls. But a lot can change and I know I’ll figure it out along the way.
Right now I’m concentrating on her first Chinese vacation in 2-4 years. My sister wants to come along and depending on the cost at the time I may bring some of DD’s cousins. Just like you, I will want it to be like a family vacation to Disney or to Italy. And I also think it can be just as inexpensive (or close) to a Disney vacation.
Like Bailey, I am curious to what age would be good for a child to visit SWI? (If I can figure out how!) Thanks.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
feelingjoy: We have opted to take our DD back relatively early (age 5) because we know a lot of kids who didn’t have good reactions to the SWI visit. At 5, we feel she will be old enough to remember some, but it won’t be as jarring an experience as it can be for older kids. We also want her to see the building she lived in, which is scheduled to be closed.
However, I think the “right” age depends on the child, and a lot of people suggest asking your child if they want to visit their orphanage. Our DD has said independently that she wants to see where she lived, wants to visit the city. We have no reason to be believe she will be freaked out by the experience–though that could change once we are there. Other kids may be less enthusiastic.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
We are going to wait to see if she really want to go back… I have a friend that wanted to make the trip with her DD, next year a age 16 and she does not want to go to China. She would prefer be going to London, England. So I guess it depend on how important it will be for my DD when she will be older. This is an expensive trip and don’t want to put all the money to that big trip every 3 or 4 years… We want to take summer, winter vacations and enjoy being all together.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
A friend of mine’s sister is in her late 20′s and from Korea.
She’s one of those crazy successful people (early college graduation, peace corps, law school, world traveler, etc.).
She seemingly has few if any adoption issues.
She traveled for nine months in Asia in her early 20′s and decided she wasn’t interested in visiting Korea and didn’t. I was just amazed because she went everywhere else.
Meanwhile, other Korean adoptees want to live there as adults. It just varies so much depending upon the person.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I have a hard time understanding why someone would NOT want to go back. But then again, I know a lot of people who have never left their home state and have no desire to ever ever EVER cross its borders, and I really don’t understand that either.
Both DH and I grew up in families that were big on travel. DH’s family were road-trippers, often visiting state or national parks. We were mostly fliers, since a road trip was my father’s idea of hell on earth :D. Both our families traveled when we were just babies. I can remember strangers often commenting on how my brother and I were “good travelers” and I really think it wasn’t because we had an inborn sense of adventure (my brother was actually a very fearful child), but because travel to new places was simply part of what we did as a family and so we just had a lot of experience. And I also think my parents did a good job of making the trips positive and accessible for us (when we were very young they would often ask locals where the nearest neighborhood park was and after, say, an art museum, we’d go find a playground to play in, or in foreign countries, when we’d been pushed to our limits, we would eat one meal at McDonalds).
Obviously parents know their own children best, but I really think that we shouldn’t underestimate our children’s capacity to experience new places and still feel safe and comfortable. “Practice” trips can be very valuable, and don’t have to be expensive (many state/national parks offer semi-camping facilities, like cabins you can rent cheaply, if you’re not tent people). And I would also caution people not to underestimate the age at which their children can appreciate an experience. I still have vivid memories of a trip my family took when I was 3 and a half.
And as far as cost–I work at a Disney park and let me tell you, even if you’re doing Disney on the cheap, your Disney experience can easily out-cost a trip through China once you get there. We’ve traveled through Europe for less than what a lot of families spend at Disney.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
RQ, I think you’ve done an amazing job putting together these series of articles and stories.
We have two daughters who were born in China. They are now 8.5 and 6 years old — they were adopted at 11 months and 9.5 months old and they lived in the same orphanage.
Our older daughter has traveled back twice, once at age 3 to adopt her younger sister and then again when she was 5 years old. On her first return trip (at age 3) we made the decision not to take her to the orphanage. It was a difficult decision but it was a difficult trip and we really needed to focus on our younger daughter during that orphanage trip. Our older daughter stayed back at the hotel with her baba while I traveled to the orphanage with my younger daughter to meet her ayi and say goodbye.
About a year after we returned home from China after our second adoption our older daughter (then 4) expressed a need to see the orphanage and hold ‘her babies.’ She has always felt her losses deeply and articulated them quite clearly. When we discovered that Half the Sky was planning a build at our daughters’ orphanage, we applied to go. I worried, I wavered but we went, and it was absolutely the right decision for her and our family. It wasn’t an easy trip but it was life-changing and life-affirming for both of us. Several of the older children in our group really struggled during the trip and one ultimately refused to believe that she had ever lived there. I’m not sure there is any one right answer about the best time to return to the orphanage — it just depends so much on a range of contributing factors including age at adoption, temperament, emotional resiliency, preparation, and orphanage conditions to name a few.
My younger daughter has not been back to China yet — this is partly due to life circumstances but mostly because we just haven’t felt that she was ready to go primarily because her attachment process has been more complicated.
My husband was recently granted a sabbatical for this coming fall and our plan is to travel to China for 8 weeks, and rent apartments in 3 different cities. We will spend several days visiting the girls’ orphanage and staying in the city where they lived. The girls are wildly excited and also nervous.
We’ve made return trips to China a priority (even though we are educators and artists, and money is certainly an issue for us). As others have mentioned, we want the girls to have their own experiences and memories of China. We want them to have the opportunity to immerse themselves in their birth culture, to experience being the majority and to see their parents as the minority race, to use their Mandarin skills, and to maybe become comfortable shopping in a village market.
Personally I feel like we owe them these experiences and opportunities but please keep in mind that I am saying this in response to my own individual daughters, their emotional needs, and their desires. They are telling us, loud and clear, that they need to return to China. And we’re listening.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
LouiseMe: Why wouldn’t a child want to go back to visit their SWI? Because they are angry at their birthparents, China, their abandonment, etc. and the SWI gets lumped in with all of that. Because the thought of living with anyone but their adoptive family is a little scary. Because it is awkward for them to be around a lot of Chinese people. Because they are afraid of what they might see at the orphanage. Because it reminds them of what they don’t know about their past. And a lot of other reasons.
That’s why we are taking our DD now. She has only a positive view of the SWI and doesn’t bear an animosity toward parents, Chinese, etc. But that’s now. At 9, 12 (!!!!), 15, she may have those kinds of feelings. However, other children go through those feelings earlier.
January 30th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
klem,
I am sure she can speak for herself, but I think Louiseme was wondering why parents wouldn’t want to go back.
I too wonder the same.
January 30th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
urchin Says: “Several of the older children in our group really struggled during the trip and one ultimately refused to believe that she had ever lived there.”
urchin, wondering how the parents handled this and what would even be the best way…..
You imagine scenarios for everything and then the ones that come along are the ones you never even thought of!
January 30th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
RQ,
Thanks for posting the links to the writings of adult adoptee’s, it has been both eye opening and overwhelming to say the least!
My question is this; Where are the happy adult adoptee blogs??? Those adults who feel comfortable in who they are now and where and how their lives started??
January 30th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Noendinsight, we worked at the orphanage for just over a week so we were all there every day cleaning and painting, establishing an Infant Nurture Center. The parents didn’t push it at the time just listened and held their daughter. As the week progressed, she became more at ease at being *in* the orphanage. It was a lot to deal with — every sense is assaulted when you walk into the halls where the babies live. It is tremendously overwhelming. The smells, the sights, the sounds — you never forget it. At the time, my daughter noticed none of it (it has been over 3 years now and we have processed our time there over and over again since then). She only had eyes for the babies. ‘Her babies.’ She went to each of them and knelt down and spoke to them, stroked their cheeks, handed them dropped rattles, moving from baby to baby. Honestly it was one of the most incredible experiences in my life, seeing my 5-year-old daughter with her babies.
Back to the older child, the parents allowed her to feel what she was feeling while she was there and then addressed things more directly when they got home. (Truly I think we all did that to a certain extent.)
January 30th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
We had the opportunity to take our then-4.5 year old back to China in 2007 and would absolutely do it again. Just a thought for those weighing the decision about the ideal age for a trip: of course every child’s readiness to travel will vary, as will her reaction to what she encounters. But I was very glad that we went when our daughter was still young and fairly oblivious to the constant staring, conversation (obviously about us), head-patting, etc. Her dad and I understood that we would be objects of intense interest and that there are no social prohibitions against staring at people. We’d been stared at on previous trips to China. She was blissfully unaware of what a spectacle our trans-cultural family was (especially in smaller cities – less so in Beijing or Shanghai). Only on the final day of our two week trip, when we were in a grocery store absolutely surrounded by a group of workers who were admiring her as I tried to converse in my lame Mandarin, had she finally had enough attention; she asked me to hold her and buried her face in my hair to escape from her admirers.
The point is that I thought at the time that I was glad we took her then, rather than waiting until she’s a self-conscious tween (or younger?), for whom this sort of open curiousity and harmless scrutiny would be potentially horrifying.
We’ll take her again when we go to pick up her mei mei, hopefully finding time to go to her orphanage (and mei mei’s if possible).
January 30th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
I have two brothers both adopted from Korea, their current ages are 27 and 24.
My brother who’s the eldest wants to know EVERYTHING that he can which is Asian, regardless of it being Korean, Japanese, or Chinese. He is very absorbed in finding out more.
My brother who’s the youngest wants NOTHING to do with Korea. His impression is that Korea let him down, so he wants nothing to do with the country at all. He’s served in special services in the Airforce in Iraq and is very proud of being an American.
Both were raised with the same parents, yet both have extremely opposite reactions to having been adopted from Korea.
We would love to go back to China, and when she is older, we would like to visit the orphanage. But, that’s what I want for her. We really don’t know what she will want yet. My hope is that she is proud of being Asian American, and proud that she is from China. But on this, Im going to let her take the lead, so going back to China, for us, (besides when we adopt a second time) it will have to be when she is old enough to let us know that she wants to go back to visit or not. My estimation as to when she will be ready to know how she feels about it, is when she’ll be around 12-ish.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Yes, thank you ldw4mlo. What I meant was that I don’t understand why the parents wouldn’t want to return to the country as a whole. Of course visiting a SWI is an intensely emotional issue. I was speaking of the parents who swore they’d never return to China, ever again. I have trouble understanding that mindset.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:44 am
We are planning on going back when Jess is 10. As much as we’d like to go more often, that’s just not economically feasible. She’s 3 and we’ve already started saving for the trip.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:28 am
Great discussion and thanks for all the links. Just some other things to ponder. We can’t know how our own children will feel about and the degree to which they’ll want to experience their birth culture. Like any dream or vision we have for our child it is often changed and altered as they grow into who they are supposed to be. We can keep the door open for them to explore their cultures but shoving them through isn’t always the most helpful approach. Don’t confuse your desire to travel and see the world with your child’s needs. They may be “miles” apart.
And even if your child shows interest and would love to go China every year that might just not be a possibility for many families. One of the messages I took from reading
many of the adult adoptee posts who shared their stories was that there are NO really right or wrong feelings or answers. I also consider something another adult adoptee (from Korea)shared with me was that she doesn’t participate in any of the activities/forums etc. because she said (her words) “I’m okay with who I am – it’s just not that important for me.” She said her husband who was not adopted has much more interest in Korea than she does.
One more consideration is that if you have more than one child don’t expect them to feel the same about their culture. As the parent- you need to really listen to each of your children. While it may be prudent to save for a trip if you can, just be sure it’s for your child and not you.
January 31st, 2009 at 11:30 am
I don’t think children always know what they want or whats good for them. There is a difference between forcing them and providing opportunities. My kids have a say in where we vacation but quite honestly until they start paying for vacations we decide.
For me her culture is becoming part of what we, the family does. Just as when I married my husband, St Patricks Day got incorporated into what I do so does her culture.
We don’t plan to make it all about going back for her, it will be a vacation, just like DC, St. Thomas, Florida, someday Ireland (for hubby and son) and Italy (for Momma). It will just be a place we go.
As far as forcing her culture on her. I’m not against a little force. I would rather she be ticked at me for doing too much, than not doing enough. Who knows someday in the future she might impress a boyfriends Chinese grandma and be glad we did all “that stuff”
Sort of like kids who were “forced” to take music lessons. Many (I realize not all) looking back were glad they took them. Sort of how I feel about culture.
I also think we as parents have to embrace it. Again, it then becomes just what this family does not we do this only because of you.
January 31st, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I totally understand the 16 year old who hasn’t been back yet and doesn’t want to go now. If you wait until then, it’s too late. Way too late. And if she doesn’t want to go and never has before then she shouldn’t be forced. She’d be asked to deal with a whole truck load of stuff that maybe she’s not in a good place to have to deal with right now. Just being 16 is enough to throw some people over the edge, never mind asking them to wait until then to handle some of their more raw adoption issues.
GG was pretty young on her first trip back, and TT will be pretty young as well. Before the roughest of the adoption issues come up. They will experience China before they have all of that baggage to deal with. When they are older, say 14 or 15 and up, if they don’t want to go back then that will be open for discussion.
And I do think it’s a good thing if you can go back before first or second grade (if your child is up for the travel at that age, TT was, it remains to be seen with GG). You’d be surprised at some of the things GG heard on the playground about China. Things she could easily refute, since she’d already been back. If she hadn’t been there, I have no doubt she’d have wondered if her friends were right or her parents were right. Actually, I doubt she’d have even told me all of it, just believing what they said without asking her dad or I about it. As it was I heard it from the standpoint of “you won’t believe what Kaitlyn said today”.
As I said, China is not going to be some mysterious place in their minds. It won’t be the place of misty daydreams.
If and when they go back as adults to do their own soul searching they will have been there before. They’ll know how to navigate the airports, fill out the paperwork on the plane just before it lands, order food in a restaurant and know which dishes are eaten from and which are used for discards. Squat toilets will not be a shock to them. Or, maybe they’ll never feel the need to go back as adults. Maybe they’ll just have memories of happy family vacations and they won’t feel the need to go off and do some deep soul searching on their own.
I don’t know what the future holds. But I do know it is my job to help prepare my children to handle what comes at them, and that much of the time that preparation is done long before it is actually needed. If I can get them comfortable with visiting China before they start dealing with the brunt of their adoption issues, then so much the better.
I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that when GG first truly understood the word “abandoned”, that having seen the Chinese countryside for herself, and having a first person understanding of how China is different from America… that helped her deal with and understand it in a way that would not have been possible otherwise.
All of our children will have to come to terms with that word at some point. Abandoned. What a horrible thing for a child to have to come to terms with. But we can’t protect them from it forever. We can shield them from it for a little while, but at some point their questions will be asked in such a way that you either have to be honest or lie. I tried to soften it by saying “you were found” but she got right to the heart of it, “they just left me there by myself”. Because I had done the legwork already in explaining how things are in China I could remind her of what she already knew, that if they couldn’t take care of her then they didn’t have a lot of choices, that they couldn’t hand her over since the law there doesn’t allow for that. And since she’s been there, seen conditions for herself, we could talk about those conditions, and about how leaving her there may have been the only choice her bio-family felt they had. (Occasionally reminding we don’t know the facts, we can only guess at things.)
No one out there can convince me it’s a bad thing for our kids to have seen China already when they first start dealing with these issues.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:32 pm
This may be a dumb question but…my husband and I are about to adopt a another daughter from the Democratic Republic of Congo. We definitely plan to travel back to China with our daughter who now 2. We loved China and have seriously considered going to teach there (we are both teachers). Has anyone had any issues traveling with children of other races when doing heritage trips or visiting orphanages.
Also I really like the idea of doing a volunteer trip to an orphange with my daughters. Have any of you had much experiences with that? I saw one post in this thread that seemed to have had a great experience.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:47 pm
RQ says:
“I tried to soften it by saying ‘you were found’ but she got right to the heart of it, ‘they just left me there by myself’”
Reading this sentence brought tears to my eyes and put a knot in my stomach. This is the inevitable realization that I’m dreading. I’m going to have to harden myself to this a little so when the eventual realization comes I don’t turn into a blubbering mess.
susan
January 31st, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Unfortunately, that is plain Reality for them – at some point, they WILL realize that in order for them to be found… they had to have been LEFT. Abandoned. Some adult put that child down and deliberately walked away and did NOT go back. That IS abandonment. It is a harsh and awful thing to experience. And NOTHING we as their parents do can change that – it DID happen. It IS a fact. We need to understand that this experience is part of our kids. We can’t smooth it away, we can’t pretty it up, we can’t make it all better by emphasizing how great it is we’re all together NOW.
Because OF COURSE we are… it just doesn’t erase what was.
I think we need to be sure our kids realize there is nothing wrong with being upset that you were abandoned. Being abandoned is NOT a good thing! It doesn’t mean we’re going to sit around and moan all our lives over it though – there will be times when we cry and wish it had been different… but it wasn’t. And this is how things are now.
An honest, matter-of-fact acceptance seems to be the best approach IMO.
And to second (or 3rd or 4th) what RQ said – if you wait til your kid is 12 or older, they’re probably NOT going to want to go to China. If they’ve been when they are in the 4-8 range, they more likely WILL want to return when they are in their teens.
Go when they’re young – really! You won’t regret it. I took my then-7 yr old with us to adopt her sister a year ago and it was an incredible, unforgettable trip that she still talks about all the time. Being in China was just wonderful for her – and me! :) We started making plans to go back when my now 2-yr old is 6 or so – and we both want to go again 5 or so years after that! :)
January 31st, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Its true about teens. As the stepparent to a now 15 year old. They barely want to go anywhere in public with you at that age:)
I like the idea of getting them there early enough to see it before they start getting it in a grown up way. What the see is not clouded by anger or sadness. I think it helps seperate the forest from the trees.
I also like the idea of them having first hand experience, before the “drama of the playground” starts.
So I will shooting for between K and 1st grade, or 1st and 2nd, depending on finances.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:35 pm
I find these letters very sobering. It is too much food for thought. I have adopted an older child and had took so much for granted what this little boy is feeling. Thanks for this segment.
As for our family going to China, we loved it. I didn’t enjoy it because I was soo stressed out. I would love to go back and experience its beauty. It is a poetic country.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:33 pm
I thought I’d share what a former student told me while we were waiting for our first referral. She was adopted from Korea with her twin sister when they were infants.
She gave me this advice: 1. Adopt more than one child from China so your child has that common bond with another family member.
2. Don’t take her back to China too early.
For #2, she explained that she and her sister went to Korea as older teens, and it was a very meaningful experience for them. It was a heritage trip, and they were with other families as well. She said that some of the younger teens were too disrespectful to the whole experience and that it really ruined parts of the trip for them. As it’s such an emotional trip, that really upset them.
I thought about that for awhile, but I bet we can cut down on some of that disrespect by taking our children a bit younger than that when they might possibly be excited about it. If they already develop an appreciation, maybe can expect a tiny bit more from them when they are 14. ???
We will take our daughter when we go again for our next adoption trip. We recently switched to SN, so we are hoping to travel within the next year, while she’s 4. If possible, we’d like to visit her orphanage as well. We’ll see…
Then we’ll have to work on scheduling another family trip so the second child can go back. We will have to start saving now! Yes, China isn’t expensive, but most of the flying we do in the US involves cashing in my dad’s frequent flyer miles! So, flying anywhere is rarely in our budget.
It really is sad that some people expressed their dislike for China when it is (or should be) such a big part of their family life now. When our first trip was over, we were glad to get back home only because we’d been with a baby in a hotel, and my husband was sick as a dog. Otherwise, we loved every minute of being there–we never got tired of the food (a unique trait we shared with only one other family we traveled with!) and just loved learning new things about a new place. As soon as my husband was well again (he was hospitalized up our return), we really couldn’t wait to go back!
January 31st, 2009 at 11:47 pm
We were actually lucky to take a heritage trip back to China last Christmas ’07. We were living overseas near China- decided to take advantage of the 2-3 hour flight. Although our daughter was just 2 years old we felt it would be a great thing to do since we had not visited her orphanage together as a family. We set up the trip with a private guide-referred by a fellow family in our orphanage yahoo group. We flew to Guangzhou- stayed at the White Swan, drove to the orphanage (hired drivers of course!), took a train to Hainan Island- Sanya. I highly recommend Sanya- beautiful beaches and a great casual place. We definitely want to go back to China when our daughter is older. We were so glad to make the trip especially since our daughter had been adopted at 10 months so her finding spot was possibly still there and the orphanage staff remembered us (luckily we found her finding location). The trip was very memorable- we love China!
February 1st, 2009 at 1:30 am
I have a brother who lives in Hong Kong, and had been there before a couple times before our adoption trip and I had also traveled to other parts of Asia (as has my DH as well – we spent 3.5 weeks in Asia for our honeymoon). The adoption trip was a good mix of vacation and of course adoption trip for us – we traveled early to spend time in Shanghai and Beijing, and then we stayed late to spend time in Hong Kong with my brother and his family. Our daughter has cousins who live in China (HK) and one who was also born in HK – I love that they share the bond of both being born in China. We definitely plan to get back to Hong Kong to visit my brother more than once in the next few years – and we definitely plan to try and get over to some other areas in China if we can (really want to get to Guilin and would also love to see her CWI before they move, as I believe they are building a new one nearby her old one) and then do a heritage trip when she is about 10. That’s our plan so far, anyways. I cannot wait to get back to China.
February 1st, 2009 at 2:01 am
I had posted this link in comments on a previous post, but it may be more appropriate here, to lighten the worries .
http://www.rockyou.com/show_my_gallery2.php?instanceid=129220434
hope this glimpse into the future helps. You can look at the indiv images from the slide show and read the postcards that some of the girls wrote to their mothers. Box of kleenex is advised.
I just feel out of it that I had not heard of the group
“Good Charlotte”…
: ) June
February 1st, 2009 at 2:15 am
We picked China in part because we would feel comfortable going there and that we felt comfortable returning there for trips when our child was older. It’s expensive and I want them to remember it. Agency trips are typically at least for 8 year olds so I think that’s part of the ages in our head for the trips. If someone can go more and earlier fine.
When we were there it was hard. It was actualy hard because it wasn’t a relaxing eye opening vacation of wonderful sight seeing. It was an adoption trip. There was jet lag and appointments and paperwork that couldn’t get lost or damaged or bent or stolen/mistook by someone at the airport. There was first time parenting out of a hotel room for weeks and getting on a plane and flying to a different part of the country every 5 days or so. We weren’t sure on day one in China we’d ever apply to adopt from China again. Was there a program that had escorts and no travel requirement, etc..? Filled our conversations for a time. We decided to take it one at a time and just focus on the now.
The difficulty we had during the trip was a blessing as it gave us some perspective on how hard things would be for our son to come into our lives in the beginning. We had jet lag, his schedule was totally off from us following what we were told was his schedule and wasn’t. Half of his feedings were when they said he slept and we of course woke him for them for the first days anyway. We were parents for the first time in different hotel rooms in an unfamiliar place. He was in an unfamiliar place with 2 parents giving constant attention 24/7. It was an adjustment for all of us.
One month home and we forgot the trip, like a woman must forget labor and delivery to do it again. We talked about adopting again and China was the place and are paperchasing. Our guides said while in China that China has a way of taking hold of you.
February 1st, 2009 at 11:48 am
If you go back when the children are 12, wouldn’t that coincide with their birth sign? If you could hit spring festival that year, that would be perfect. At the very least, you could load up on more stuff that pertains to the birth sign. When we were there to adopt our daughter, we had a hard time finding dog-related stuff because that had passed two years earlier.
Yesterday, Cici got to sit on a Texas Longhorn at the Houston CNY celebration. How cool is that? (It’s as close as we can come to an ox in Houston!)
February 1st, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Thanks for this thread. My husband and I are currently debating this issue.
My 8 year old is completely ready for a trip back to China, but I really don’t think that my 6 six year old is. (She’s still just understanding that I am not her bio. mom and trying to deny our differences. We discuss this all the time, but she doesn’t want to accept it.) I’m truly afraid that a trip back to China might be traumatic for our 6 six old at this point.
She needs more time.
So it’s hard when two different children in the family are at two different stages in understanding adoption issues. It makes planning the trip back harder. (I’ve been to China three times and I can’t wait to return!!)
I have also heard very positive things about peer interactions during heritage trips, how the children will discuss adoption issues and emotions among themselves. I think that this could be very healthy and help “normalize” painful issues such as abandonment. If everyone on the bus was “left to be found” then it is something that can be faced and discussed, not a secret too shameful to be spoken of. It loses its sting. Plus many make long term friendships that continue via social networking groups.
I could see doing an initial family vacation to China as well as a Heritage Tour. I see returning to China as something my children might be doing all of their lives in various ways. There are many ways to do it. I just want them to have a good experience when they do it.
As for “imagining” China, Salman Rushdie has a famous essay about immigration and how every immigrant creates an “imaginary homeland.” For even when the immigrant returns to his or her homeland, it will have changed irrevocably from how it was when he or she left it. So the true homeland is always unrecoverable or imaginary. This is a good (if sobering) point to keep in mind for many aspects of our children’s lives and histories.
February 1st, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Hi, I have been avidly reading all these posts and the adult adoptees writings. It has been soooo hard at times, but something I feel I need to do. One thing I have seen a couple of times is the feeling that families should adopt 2 children from the same culture. First, I just want to say that I TOTALLY agree that this is best, no question. However, with our family situation, and the wait what it is, that is just not an option for us. So what can I do to help my daughter with the fact that she will not have a Chinese sibling and in addition is the only adopted child in the family (2 bio brothers). I want so much to do what I can, but adopting another child is not in the cards for us. Any thoughts??
wfp forever family day 12.21.06
February 1st, 2009 at 2:44 pm
We took our four-year-old with us when we adopted our now 2-year-old this summer. Don’t regret it for an instant, even though our oldest was having some issues with the staring and touching from other adopting families and Chinese people. We are planning a trip when our oldest is 12, youngest is 10….a long trip through China, including orphanage visits, but also traveling to the parts of China we didn’t get to see on our trips…Xian, the panda reserve, etc.
I am glad that in both travel groups, the families were very open to Chinese culture. I would have been horrified if they were otherwise. When you embrace your children, you embrace their heritage as well…and expressing nonstop negativity about their country of origin is only going to hurt your children and their self worth.
We chose China, in large part, because we already loved the culture and country, because we were excited to learn as much as possible about it, and weave traditions from China into our own family traditions. I was never happier than when I did a Chinese New Year presentation at my oldest’s school, and she was spinning around in her cheongsam, telling everyone excitedly that she was born in China.
February 1st, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I want to add to the thought that you should never just adopt 1 kid from a certain country. I totally get that a child should have someone they can bond with and see themselves in. I think that is a great thing. However, I’d like to also say not to adopt a child just to be an accessory to the other child. If you want to adopt again, then sure, adopt another chinese child. If you don’t want to, or can’t feasibly do it, don’t feel you have to adopt a child you don’t want just to give your other child a matching sibling. I’m NOT saying anyone here would do this, I just wanted to add this in.
I’d also like to address some of the people wondering where the “happy adoptees” who are at peace with themselves are. I know quite a few of the adoptees who wrote these posts and blogs, and I can assure you that, at least the ones I know, are happy people. They may be upset about the circumstances involving their adoptions, but they aren’t just bitter, angry people sitting around all day dwelling on being adopted. It may seem that way because the only part of them you are seeing is their adoption blogs or reading their posts on an adoption forum. Even if your child does have issues about their adoption (I have issues about mine. I’ve been labeled as bitter, angry, and anti-adoption) it does not mean they’re sitting around all day long being mad.
Being an adoptee myself, knowing a lot of other adoptees and having two adoptees, the best advice that I can give people is to just let your kids feel what they feel. Don’t wish or hope for them to think adoption is sunshine and roses, because they’ll pick up on that and if they don’t have a lot of happy feelings, they won’t share it with you. Wish for your kids to be able to come to you and get support no matter what they feel. Let them know its okay to not think adoption is wonderful. I certainly don’t think adoption is always wonderful. I don’t think its always bad, but I don’t think its always great either. I promise you that even adoptees who don’t always feel its wonderful, the great majority of them still love their adoptive parents with all their heart. I know adoptees who despise adoption with every bit of their soul, and still love their aparents with all their heart. Not loving adoption doesn’t mean they don’t love you.
February 1st, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Not loving adoption doesn’t mean they don’t love you.
Such a telling statement and so hard for some parents to hear. It is not all or none. Black or white. We can be overall OK with how we were brought up adopted or not. And still see room for improvement. How can that be a bad thing????????
Regarding going back. Can’t it just be a vacation, and not about the “adoption”. Why hertiage, why not just some time spent in China………………
Just thinking out loud.
February 1st, 2009 at 6:14 pm
“It may seem that way because the only part of them you are seeing is their adoption blogs or reading their posts on an adoption forum.”
That would be correct. I am an adoptee blogger. If someone were to come across my personal blog, they might think I was bitter/angry or whatever, but my blog is just one side of me. Its purpose IS to show the negative aspects of adoption because they are so often drowned out or dismissed.
Oftentimes these types of blogs have nothing to do with our adoptive families. We love them and appreciate them and spend time with them but our perception of adoption isn’t necessarily a sole reflection of how we were raised.
I know that many other adoptees out there are not dwelling on their adoptions. It does not mean the more outspoken adoptees are “bitter/angry” – it means we are self-reflective of our pasts and the impact adoption has had on our lives.
You will not see them blogging because they aren’t working through adoption issues or have finished working through those issues. For some it lasts a few weeks, for others it lasts a few years, and still, for others they see no reason to talk or reflect about adoption. It varies from person to person.
I quote from another adoptee: “If everyone was saying how bad adoption is, I would be blogging about how wonderful it is.”
February 1st, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Just another consideration; The reality for some of us is that while the cost of going to China may be “less than Disney World”, our family budget doesn’t allow for multiple trips to either place. With careful saving, we MAY be able to take ONE trip back to China. Does this then mean that we are not fulfilling our obligation as adoptive parents? I can’t believe we’re the only family that doesn’t take expensive family trips? We have taught our daughters about their birth culture and tried to honor their heritage. We provide a stable and loving home but not a lot of extras.
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:07 am
sweethome2 – No, you are definitely not the only family not taking expensive trips. If it were not for me having a very generous brother in Hong Kong who will give us miles to fly, then we would not have the luxury of getting to China again except for a heritage trip (which we will save for and do on our own). And I do think we can combine a sightseeing trip with a heritage trip, and that is what we plan to do and I will not feel guilty about it. Plus if my brother happens to move out of Hong Kong (which could very well happen with his job), then we will likely not go there as we could not afford to fly and stay there on our own. Then we would just be doing the one trip back to China when our DD is about 10 or so. We are not rich by any means, so we also do our best to teach our daughter about her heritage, and we have a lot of friends in town with children who are adopted from China and we get together often. I think – like you said – doing that plus providing a stable and loving home is a wonderful thing.
– Tracy
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pm
We don’t have it in the budget to go places every year, or even every other year either, sweethome.
As some suggest, the flight to China might be cheaper than a flight for us to Florida. But then there’s the hotel rooms, a guide, food, souvineres. The cost goes up and up and up.
I think it’s much easier to dream about it – somewhere in the distance – for most average people, than it is to actually plan a trip to China for this year, or next year. I would love to plan a trip. But with a second adoption, who knows when we can.
February 18th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I don’t think that there’s a rule that says you must bring your DD back to China in order to be a “good” adoptive parent. All parents, whether biological or adoptive, are great parents when they love their child – that is what your child wants the most and needs the most. Airfare, lodging, and meals alone cost a bundle, and you still have to have a translator, spending money, etc. If traveling to China isn’t an option for your family, you can always try bringing China to your child – for example, bring them to a Chinatown nearby if you live by a city with one. If that isn’t an option, just teach them about their motherland.
I also agree with ldw4mlo, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a “heritage trip,” you can just visit China. Your DD’s family is your family – you can experience China together – at one time China was their home – a long time ago, you are now their home. Please don’t forget that; they define family and home the way you taught them. Don’t lose sight of that!