Hard Knock Life
I’ve asked GlitterGirl’s teacher to give me a heads up before they start anything that has to do with adoption or family trees or anything else that I might need to be aware of.
She told me yesterday that the big music program for next year is going to be Broadway hits, with each class being assigned a broadway tune. GG’s class will be doing Hard Knock Life, from Annie.
I was prepared to deal with it until I looked up the lyrics.
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Orphans It’s the hard-knock life for us! It’s the hard-knock life for us! Annie Orphans Annie Orphans All Annie Orphans Annie Orphans All Annie Kate and Tessie Duffy and July Molly and Pepper Annie All Empty belly life! Molly Annie All Molly Orphans Molly Orphans Molly Pepper Molly Orphans Molly All It’s the hard-knock life |
Here’s the scene from one of the movies:
I am strongly considering having a talk with someone (not sure who at this point) where I have a print out of the lyrics, and pictures of GG visiting her orphanage, and then asking them if perhaps they can’t change things around a bit so GG’s class has a different tune.
We’ve talked before about how we can’t shelter our kids from this kind of thing. But having them watch it is way different than having them perform it. Isn’t it? She’s going to have to hear this song hundreds, perhaps thousands, of times. And she’s going to have to memorize the words. Plus, the thoughts of seeing my daughter singing those words on stage, dressed to look like an orphan, just makes me sick to my stomach. But that last part is about me, not her, and I can’t let this be about my own feelings.
So, maybe I should just deal with it and help GG deal with it as well. I honestly don’t know what to do.
They are practicing for the Christmas program now, the kids won’t start working on this until January when they return from Christmas break. If I act now, it should be early enough to get things changed.
Perhaps I’ll just make my feelings known, with a polite request that they consider it. I won’t make demands, I’ll just ask that they consider that performing this song might not be in GG’s (or the several other kids adopted internationally in her class) best interest.
I’m still deciding what to do here, and at this point I’m open to suggestions and ideas. Just be nice, please.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:01 am
With all the broadway shows out there and with all the OTHER wonderful songs from that show, I don’t know why they would have chosen that song. I think that given the advanced notice and the negativity that seeps from that song, you should have no problem getting it changed. And in my opinion you have every right to do so.
-akina
October 29th, 2009 at 9:08 am
I would only ask for it to be changed if my DD had a problem with it. Perhaps, a note to the teacher/school to be aware and/or sensitive to the their classmates reactions to the song in regards to GG and the other adopted children participating in the program. While I don’t think we can shield our children from everything that comes along, I do think that if the school feels this is a valid part of their curriculum then they should be prepared to it back up and supplement their choices with additional discussions, about adoption or the great depression, or whatever.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:10 am
it’s amazing how your prespective changes once you are adopting and you start thinking and learning about these things.
i think your plan is a good one RQ. any way you could get the parents of other adopted children in the class to politely request the same? as akina says, there are sooo many other more appropriate choices out there.
obviously you are rightly concerned about how all of this will make GG feel. but i’m also thinking (as i’m sure you have) about how other children in the class may view their adopted classmates after this.
i’d like to think that once you bring it to their attention that they’ll cringe at the thought of having a child who spent part of their life in an orphanage dress in rags and stand on stage and sing these words.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:13 am
waiting4Ash – i agree we can’t shield our children from everything – but GG is so young and this is a really tough one IMO. i would do everything i could – in the NICEST possible way – to get another show instead.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:14 am
On a side note: when I was growing up one of my neighbors was adopted and we were very good friends. (I’ve written about her before on the forum.) Her adoption circumstances were some of the most deplorable you can possibly imagine. Annie was one of our favorite movies growing up. We probably watched it a couple hundred times.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:16 am
has GG seen the movie? If not, consider letting her watch it to discuss. I suggest getting her feelings on it, put it into proper context. Explain that some orphanages were like that, but things have come a long way since then, even in China. I know that song is the big number that all the kids perform in, while most of the other songs are meant to be sung by a smaller group or even a soloist. So, if they want to do Annie with a class, then Hard Knock Life just happens to be it. But, perhaps they could do a group rendition of Tomorrow, or “We’ve Got Annie!” where Daddy Warbucks’ staff celebrate the fact that Annie gets to stay with them?
October 29th, 2009 at 9:19 am
The rest of my post post above should have said… That is why I would take my lead from my DD. That song or movie didn’t upset my neighbor in any way shape or form. I would want to take my lead from my DD.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:40 am
The songs words are hurtful. I would have a very serious problem if my DD were asked to perform this song in elementary school. Above that level, I think it would be more up to her. But seriously, I think I would cause a stink about it. It might be easier for me because there are a lot of adopted kids in our school. Do you have any other adoptive families in your school? If so, maybe you could all get together to protest this?
My older son wears hearing aids. I can’t imagine a school making him get up and sing a song about how hard it is to be hearing impaired. This is the same kind of thing.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:42 am
We had a similar experience last year (1st grade) when they showed the movies during music class. It wasn’t planned, they were showing the movie because they had a subsitute, and I found out when I had a call from the counselor telling me my daughter was ‘having a hard day and crying for her mommy’. The counselor let me go on and on wondering what could possibly be upsetting her before saying “and I guess I should mention we showed Annie today and her said she didn’t like it”. I was very upset that they didn’t come right out and tell me what was going on. I wasn’t as calm as you are. I responded with “you think you should mention?!?!?- ‘no one cares for you a smidge….’- you think that might be upsetting my daughter who sent the first year of her life in an orphanage?” when my daughter got home we talked about it and she did say “boy- I sure am glad my Nannies weren’t like that”. She was still upset by the very idea that there may still be orphanages out there – and we know there are- where children get less than optimal care. For those of us with personal experiences with these SWIs it really isn’t something to make light of. If GG is upset about it after watching the movie I would ask them to consider another song.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:43 am
As a waiting family we have thought about the best way to handle these types of situations. I guess my first question would be has GG seen the movie, heard the song, or read the story Depending on the answer to that I agree that the best thing to do would see what her feelings are. You can also let her know that it is a made up story. Just like the ones you read to her.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:47 am
I also think there is a huge difference between having GG watch the movie and making her actually sing the words to the song.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:55 am
RQ, I started crying as I was reading the lyrics. I can’t imagine that this wouldn’t hurt GG in some way. As you said, she will have to memorize these words and sing them over and over again.
it’s great that this teacher gave you a heads up. Does that mean that you know before the kdis do? If so, then your plan is exactly the right one. See if they will just change it because it’s the right thing to do.
If you wait for the class to get started then they will know that it was changed and start guessing as to why it was changed. if I was in charge of the music program I would change the song in an instant if a parent had this discussion with me.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:01 am
I think you have every right to request a different song and let them know why it would be difficult for your daughter and others who have been adopted. If the school really wants something from Annie, the song “You’re Never Fully Dressed Without a Smile” would work just fine, and is song by the little girls in both the movie and stage version of the show. I think if you point out the lyrics that would be hard for your daughter, and could lead to bullying and teasing by other children (“No one cares for you a smidge when you’re in an orphanage”), the school would realize that there are better choices to be sung. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:02 am
I dunno…I just don’t see it as a big deal. It IS a hard knock life! There ARE orphans. I guess it’s because I don’t see my child as an orphan. I see her as a child, my child.
I’ve asked that family trees and any family genetics projects be tweaked in our daughter’s school, simply because it’s all an unknown for her, and the results of a project like that would not be accurate.
But as for Annie, it’s a movie about hope, and bonding, and creating a family. The theme of an orphanage hits close to home, but it’s a positive spin on the theme.
This one really isn’t a battle that I would personally take on, unless my own daughter had triggers with it. And even then, I would choose to just exclude her from the choir rather than ask that the school nix the entire performance.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I’m not an orphan, but my mom did abandon me when I was 4. I always loved Annie and never associated her with myself. Both of my chinese adoptees watch it and love it, including my 10 year old who was in an orphanage until he was 8. I always let them know they can talk about it, but they don’t see themselves in her. I think my 10 year old was a little jealous, though, that we weren’t as rich as Daddy Warbucks.
If she has an issue, definitely do something. If not, it may be worse if the whole thing has to get switched and her friends tease her because they can’t do the song because of her being an orphan. Kids can be mean that way.
The teacher really should’ve been more sensitive, though, and never accepted this song for her class to do. Just take your daughter’s lead on this one.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:08 am
I would ask for the class to be given a different song. I can imagine it would be awkward for the audience in general, not just the adoptive parents, to know there are children who were orphaned singing that song.
It will not be possible to avoid Annie forever. It might help to explain the historical context of the story – that it took place in the past, during the depression when people and orphanages could not afford things.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:09 am
I think if you ask the school to change the song, you will be setting your DD up for potential resentment from the school, her teachers and classmates in the future. You risk having your DD forever known as the “sensitive one” or the “special one.”
Instead I think you should use this as an opportunity to discuss orphans, orphanages and how they are perceived by others. (This is as others have suggested.) Let her see the movie and talk with her about what she thinks about it. If she really hates the song, then she can opt out of the performance.
The truth is that our children were orphans, and they did live in orphanages. We have to believe that our kids can handle the truth. By asking the class to change the song, you are sending the message that there is something wrong with who she was and where she lived.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:13 am
What a tough call. I think I would have to say something. I am sure no one has thought of the possibility of an actual child who was an orphan up there singing this song. People just don’t think about things that they do not know personally.
This quote from your paragraph to me says it all:
“Plus, the thoughts of seeing my daughter singing those words on stage, dressed to look like an orphan, just makes me sick to my stomach.”
You then went on to say it isn’t just about your feelings, and that is true. But you are her mother and it is your job to protect her and think about her feelings. I wonder if you could ask GG how she feels about it? Assuming you’ve talked about since you mention watching it. I may be assuming too much here. We haven’t watched it with DD yet, but she is just 4.
I know this is a bit OT but we have Nemo and we watched it recently. DD was clearly bothered by it, so it is put away now. We never know how these movies will affect our children. RQ, thanks for sharing this. I am sure it is breaking your heart.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Great comments above – I would definately try to get them to make a change.
On a different note though… could they find a more tedious song to teach a group of young children?
October 29th, 2009 at 10:35 am
I would approach the school in a very different way. Why do the children have to sing and preform a VERY negative song with so many other wonderful upbeat broadway songs out there. Are you friends with other parents in her class? Ask them how they feel about the song and get a perspective from a non-adoptive family.
Personally I would be VERY again this song being performed by my daughter and would do what I could to get it changed.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:46 am
I would definitely ask that they choose another song. There is SO MUCH that we can’t shield our kids from, but when it is possible to step in and prevent some of the hurt, I would do it. I can’t imagine GG having to deal with that song for months on end. It wouldn’t be fair.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:50 am
I have used this song as a springboard to discussing orphanages and adoption. My 6 year old has not seen the whole movie but has seen the dance numbers several times, I don’t even remember why, on you tube. We talk about this being just one adoption story…and one contrived for Hollywood/Broadway.My daughter is well aware of the grains of truth that run throughout the lyrics of this song but she understands that this is not her story…just a made-up story; one that contains some common themes for many adoptees. She understand that this “show” was not how it was for her, but that desire/need to have the love of home and family are universal.
I think you should feel absolutely entitled to do whatever it is you need to do to deal with the impact this could have on your daughter and if it means changing the song, then request that. I think that processing these lyrics for the first time might be tough for some of our children, but to have to do this in the presence of their peers (who may be invasive with questions, comments, teasing, etc.) could make this process all the more difficult or painful.
I’d love to hear the thoughts of adoption psychologists on this one. I wish that schools would really be more aware of just who they are teaching and embrace the diversity in their classrooms. They should have this in the forefront of their minds as they plan curriculum. I bet no one thought of the impact this could have and that is a HUGE problem…an enormous oversight. Schools and teachers, in general, should be more interested in just WHO they are teaching than in exactly WHAT they are teaching and this is a case in point.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:58 am
*** I meant to write: I would be very “against” this song being performed…
October 29th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Good Morning Rq,
I haven’t had the time to scroll through the responses so I’m not sure what was suggested at this point. First of all (((HUGS)). This is tough Mama.
Here’s my 2 cents. It depends on your kid and your feelings. Where it gets sticky is navigating how she may feel later in life. Right now, this might just roll of her back while you have the bigger issue. I appreciate that you are working out trying to separate your issues from her issues, but your feelings as a mom count too. Don’t dismiss that.
OTOH, my daughter would probably be okay with it right now. In fact, I’m the one that worries about stuff like this way more than she does. We had a little incident over the summer and when I checked in with her she said, “Mom, I’m fine with it. I know I’m adopted and it’s no big deal. You’re my mom and that’s it.” Okay, fine and dandy but I can’t pretend that she will always feel that way. If it were me with my kid in your situation, she’d probably get pretty upset with me if I made any waves about it.
Okay Great, that’s me and my kid. You’re a different family and you have to do what is right for you. We can all throw in our 2 cents and are happy to do so. After all, look at all you’ve done for us and our families. The bottom line is that you’re going to have to do what is right for you and your family.
My only advice is that I personally think that your feelings DO count and in many ways this is about you too. There’s nothing wrong with that. Be gentle on yourself. (((BIG HUG)))
October 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am
It’s one thing to watch the movie/listen to the song at home where you can stop and discuss it, turn it off completely or do whatever you need to do to support your child. But to rehearse it over and over again, and then stand on stage and sing it in front of the entire school is entirely different. And I really can’t help but think that some child is going to sing those hard lines to a child in a hurtful, teasing way. And the performance of this song at a school program is unintentionally shining a spotlight on your girl and others who have been adopted – I’m trying to think of how to explain what I mean but it’s not coming to me – maybe just as people are listening to the children sing about how rotten life is an orphange is, they can’t help but think about what our children’s past lives were like, whether it be in pity (“Oh that poor thing”) or whatever. As much as we talk to our children about how this story is not about them, their circumstances were different, etc., standing up and performing this song could still be really difficult. Yes, we want our daughters to be strong and be able to stand up for themselves, but why subject them to something so hard if there’s another choice? Why give the classroom bully just one more tool to use?
While there is a theme of hope in Annie, there are still a group of little girls in the movie who don’t go home with Daddy Warbucks (except for a party at the end) but go back to an orphanage that is a pretty miserable place to be. I think this quote from an above post says it all for me – “My older son wears hearing aids. I can’t imagine a school making him get up and sing a song about how hard it is to be hearing impaired. This is the same kind of thing.”
October 29th, 2009 at 11:35 am
I haven’t posted here in a while, but I just had to chime in. I too would want to do whatever I could in my power to get that song changed. Yes, I know we can’t shield them forever, but until they are old enough to advocate for themselves, we must do what we can – at least try. Like one of the posters above said, we would never have a hearing impaired child sing about hearing loss – it is very similar. While I agree you do need to take GG’s feelings into consideration, and initially she may be ok with it, after, as you pointed out NUMEROUS rehearsals it may get to be a bit much and at that point it may be too late. I also agree with the poster that recommended a different song from the same movie.
October 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I would be concerned that some of the other children may pick up on the fact that GG used to be an orphan and could use these lyrics to tease her even if GG doesn’t have an issue with the lyrics herself. She may not have the ability to forsee that others could pick up on this and use it against her. Children can be cruel. There are so many lovely songs from Annie and so many other wonderful Broadway songs, I know there is another song they can choose. It isn’t worth the risk.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
I would ask that the song be changed. While the overall theme of Annie may be upbeat and be about hope – this song is not. I would not want either of my two girls to sing a song that declared no one cared for them because they lived in an orphanage. It’s too personal. Even if it were not so personal I wouldn’t want that young of a child to being seeing about wanting to throw the towel in and give up either.
My one daughter loves to talk about when she was in China but my other daughter would completly shut down if her classmates started asking a lot of questions about when she was in an orphanage. I think this could create some very uncomforftable situtions.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
I asked my god-daughter. She is 15. She said that for her it wouldn’t of bothered her in the least. She said it is the parents that make such big deals about everything and then as a kid you feel all eyes on you because your the kid who is now different where as before you weren’t. She said they should include the song, and then discuss the reality of orphanages around the world and the life that children live in other countries.
As a parent I can understand how you feel, but I must admit to me it is just a song, like any song from past musicals that someone could find offensive. Annie was set in a time when a lot of orphans were mistreated as people had a different about children in general back then and especially orphans. Not all places were like that, but many were.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
RQ- I agree that your daughter shuold NOT have to do this song. They will practice this every music class for months.
While it is just a bunch of words for the other children, this is going to hit home each and every day. I don’t know how old GG is but I am guessing she is 6-7. This is way too young to have this song etched in her mind. If she was just watching the program I would be concerned a bit, but memorizing such painful lyrics NO WAY. We home school so this type of thing at school will not be an issue for us BUT we have had issues because of memories from life at the orphanage. She was 11 months at adoption and has vivid memories almost 3 years later. This could cause an emotional setback in her development.
I think I would start with whoever is incharge of the production and discuss it with them. If not move on to the principal, the school board, etc.
Good Luck and please keep us posted.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
It seems like I’m in the minority to think that this isn’t that big a deal. Annie was an enormous success both on broadway and on the big screen. It’s a great story. This song is only “one” part of that story. If it was a song people sang that wasn’t attached to a story, sure, it could be seen as very negative. But when viewed in it’s context, as part of a really neat story, it doesn’t seem that big a deal to me.
It seems unfair to ask the entire class to change their selection from a very successful musical. Perhaps she could be placed in another choral group singing something else. That would take her away from her friends but that’s a choice.
From Oliver Twist to even Batman.. stories of orphans are all around us. Each of us has to decide what’s best for our children. But while my families make these decisions, I hope we will be able to view the context and the larger picture in each of these challenges.
(I personally like Jay Z’s version even better than the original.)
October 29th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Have you considered watching and discussing the movie “Annie” with her? At the very lease, seeing it might help contextualize the song for you.
BTW, I recommend the version with Carol Burnett as Miss Hannigan.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I have to agree with others that there is a significant difference between watching a movie about orphans and “being” (so to speak) an orphan for a performance. Either experience could be negative, neutral, or possibly even positive depending on the child, where they’re at in processing, and the social atmosphere. If it were my daughter, I’d be with RQ in being concerned. Especially since if it DOES turn out to be traumatic halfway through rehearsals, there’s no really graceful way to deal with it.
On a somewhat side note, one thing I think could be positive about Annie for some people is the fact that it highlights that poor conditions for orphans are not a “China” thing, but more of a “human” thing.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
RQ, I’m right there with you. And yes, while it’s important to get her feelings on it, she may not even know or understand what she feels at this point. If it’s all up to her now, she may just ask you when she’s 25 why you let that happen! You’re the adult, you understand the issues here, so go with your gut.
If it’s any consolation, schools are constantly doing stupid things like this. When I was in high school, the music/choir teacher had a few girls from choir dress up as hookers and sing “Hey, Big Spender.” My English teacher was appalled, but most people just didn’t get how inappropriate this was for a high school. The music teacher wasn’t the brightest bulb, and I’m guessing the same about the person who chose this song–being a catchy tune is not enough to justify this choice. Adopted or not, kids shouldn’t be performing that song because of all the negativity in it.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
big ol’ HMMMMMM. it is best to talk with gg about it and see how she feels. the thing is, the horrible picture painted by this song IS true of some (perhaps very many?) orphanages in the world…. glossing over that doesn’t make it go away. my dd and i have had this very same conversation over the musical “oliver” – yes, it is horrible in the orphanage oliver lived in. yes, it is horrible in many orphanages. but the orphanage *you* lived in was actually very nice. you had nannies who were very kind to you, who held the babies, etc. etc. we also have pictures of her in the orphanage, so we can show the toys and smiley kids in the playroom et al. perhaps you can view this as a chance to educate the class…. with pictures (and maybe video) et al.
and again, that may be overdoing it. it might be just something for mom/dad and gg to discuss, and leave the greater public out of it. again, i’d take my cue from the kid here.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
As a parent, I’d be very upset if my daughters were required to sing this song. But to get another persective, I decided to ask my two older daughters, who were adopted from China as preteens, what they thought about this subject. They read the lyrics, shrugged, and said “But Mom, that’s how it is in an orphanage. What’s the big deal?” They are from different orphanages and I have never heard either say one single thing that was positive about their orphanages. Not one thing. OTOH, the things that they do tell about orphanage life occasionally make the depictions in Annie look positively harmless. They didn’t see anything wrong with singing the song. As far as they are concerned, it’s about real life, and what’s wrong about telling it like it is? That is their perspective, BTW, not mine. I would still be very uncomfortable with them singing something like that unless they chose to (as part of a voluntary school play, for instance).
October 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
A few comments:
GG’s school is really big on parent involvement. I can go in and talk to them and have a conversation about it – they aren’t going to get defensive right off the bat or anything. And I don’t think they are going to see me as being a troublemaker for bringing it up. I have volunteered enough that I know just about all of GG’s teachers pretty well… the problem here is that the music teacher is new this year and I have only met her once, and that was very brief. And she’s probably the person I should start with on this. But, one of the coaches is probably also involved since she’ll likely be doing the choreography, and I know her pretty good, so maybe I can just go to her to start. GG’s language arts teacher is actually the one who gave me the heads up on this.
I’ve contacted two of the other moms and have heard back from one – she’s in the same boat I am, not 100% sure of the correct thing to do. I haven’t heard back from the other (she’ll probably call me tonight), and didn’t bother with the 4th because she likes to pretend her child wasn’t adopted and won’t see why this might be an issue for her daughter (which means it would probably affect her child the most, because her child is never allowed to bring up adoption stuff to her parents).
No one except for a few of us parents (the ones with adopted kids) is aware that the program is being put together yet. The kids won’t be told anything until they get to music class in January after coming back from Christmas break. I would not change it after everyone knew what it was, but if I ask soon then I can possibly get it changed without anyone knowing it was changed.
I am not going to make a stink about it, though. I may very well try to get it quietly changed, but I think that doing so in a public way would create more of a problem than it fixed.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
My gut instinct is that this is ridiculous and the teacher or someone at the school should have given it a moment of thought upon selecting this musical. Or, there should have been some school-initiated communication with the adoptive parents in the class.
Then after the gut reation, my head says — think about the number of stories and musicals that are going to touch on our children`s lives. What if the school had chosen the very popular Oliver musical with “Food Glorius Food” about underfed children in a workhouse (orphanage) or there is a song in the same play about selling orphans for money. Just terrible thoughts for our families but the orphan theme seems to be inescapable in movies, musicals, literature . . .
It seems like addressing the “orphan as plot device” issue is something that, at some point, we adoptive parents are just going to have to grit our teeth and work through it with our kids. The situation with GG is just such an ugly example of this happening, much worse than just watching a movie at a friend’s house with no parental support.
I think I’d try to face it head on and just work through it by staying connected with the teacher, my child, the other adoptive parents with children in the class, etc. Initially try to use it as a teachable moment for everyone but keep really close tabs on the situation and follow my child`s lead.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Back when that Orphan movie came out, one of the APs wrote that her daughter was teased a a movie theater party when one of the boys saw the poster. The AP was not aware of the movie or the poster when she dropped her daughter off for the party.
I’d be worried a kid will take these lyrics and decide to tease the adopted children.
Honestly, with all the children adopted or living in “non-traditional” circumstances today, I don’t see the point in using THIS song especially since they will be expected to play the part. Even if your daughter can handle it, you do not know the circumstances of the other children in the school. Some might live in foster homes, some might live with grandparents, some might have recently lost someone close to them.
The fact that a teacher felt the need to give you a heads up on this is a huge red flag to me. It says that she is not comfortable with the selection and is hoping you will do something about it.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
If the kids don’t know yet, nip it in the bud!! The language arts teacher is obviously feeling for you if she let you know in advance. This is wrong, plain and simple. You have the chance to prevent it, so please do, for everyone’s sake. I’m sure most of the adults there will understand your concern and be embarrassed that they even considered this song once you talk to them about it. We need some sensitivity in the schools, and you’ll be doing everyone a service. And, at the end of the day, if they see you as a trouble maker, that’s their problem, but I doubt that will be the case.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
The teacher gave me a heads up because I asked her to give me a heads up anytime they were dealing with subject matter about adoption or abandonment or dead parents or family trees or anything else that she thought I might want to know about. She’s done that in the past, and I’ve thanked her for letting me know. I’ve never asked them to not do something before, I’ve always just made sure the lines of communication were open so GG and I could talk about it.
And the language arts teacher knew about it because she will be expected to do a classroom section on the plays that the various classes will be acting out. She’s being told now so she can incorporate the various plays into her plans next year.
But this is different, I think. It’s not just studying it, or reading it.. it’s acting it out. It’s not a one time thing, but an ongoing project. Day after day after day of dealing with it.
October 29th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Got to wonder why they picked that particular song from the show. Pretty creepy, especially out of context.
“Hey, I’ve got a great idea, lets dress the kids up as pathetic orphans!”
October 29th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I guess I’d also be concerned with what we would then expect from teachers. Anytime a story/song/play/musical has any adoption/orphan/orphanage theme contained, would they then be expected to go through the list of their students and then setup appointments with all of the adoptive parents to get their blessing or at least their input? That seems a little much and I know that’s not the intention of the original question here. But that’s the end result right?
As someone has pointed out, our collective society and much of literature has many adoption and orphan related themes throughout. Even if some stories like Cinderella seem completely okay to most people, the teachers now must think “this seems okay (like Hard-knock Life seemed okay to me), but now I have to get the “blessing” of all the adoptive parents?
Again, I know that’s not what the original question here but if I put myself in the choir director’s position, in the future, what will she be thinking when she’s contemplating such works as Tarzan, Anastasia, Oliver Twist, Tom Sawyer, Anne of Green Gables. Even modern day heroes including Harry Potter and Superman tackle these themes.
I like the comment above…”letting mom, dad, and child to discuss leaving the greater public out of it.”
October 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
As a former teacher, I personally would welcome constructive input from parents, especially with a long lead time to consider a different option. I think you are totally inline in requesting a different song from Annie ~ there are several other great ones to chose from.
I agree that there is a difference in between viewing a movie and rehearsing a detrimental part of it over and over again.
Please let us know how it goes for you ~ I’m learning all I can while mine are still preschoolers from those that are going before me!
October 29th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
I groaned when I read this- we are currently living through a similar situation.
My daughter is 4.5 and in pre-K. The big fall field trip is to see a play- this year the play is “Annie.” My first thought was ok, we can’t shield daughter from this forever, Annie is out there. We will be prepared to talk about it. And honestly at 3,4,and 5 years of age- I don’t think the kids are going to pick up on the adoption/orphans themes in the play and relate to my daughter. And I don’t think my daughter will “get” that the play coud be analogous to her own life (although we’re no “Daddy Warbucks!”).
If she does “get it”- I am prepared to pull out pictures and gifts given to her last fall when we re-visited her orphanage. She was welcomed back with open arms, and we think cared for quite well when she was an infant. We can talk about that.
It is really frustrating- the play and the language is so dated. There are a million different, better ways to talk about adoption than the singing waifs and evil caretakers in Annie.
Anyway, I did approach our school and voiced that I felt it was an unfortunate choice of play. I also wanted to understand if curriculum would be structured around this- and what that would involve. I also asked if the school has gone to see Annie in the past, and if it brought up questions or issues from the kids- adopted or not.
My daughter’s pre-school has been apologetic, and is only focusing curriculum on what a play is, and how a play is put on. If the topic of adoption comes up, I do feel like my daughter’s teacher is prepared to discuss it with the students- as “just another way to build a family.”
The situation with GG takes it to another level. To be required to dress as an “orphan” and sing this song seems a ridiculous thing to me. I vote for quiet change of song. If that can’t happen- then I’m sure you will do a good job of figuring out if this will bother your daughter and keeping the discussion open with her.
~Adoptive Parent (who wishes Annie would just quietly go away…)
October 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I don’t think it’s a great song for young children to perform regardless. It’s maybe just me, but the line “‘stead of kisses, we get kicked” has always made me sad because it’s sung like, “yeah, we are physically abused, but it’s no big deal, ‘cos we’re orphans”.
I also would feel a bit uncomfortable with having a child who has actually spent time in an orphanage singing those lyrics. Not the end of the world, either way, but I would probably politely advocate for a different song.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
RQ, since you know in advance, I don’t see any harm at all in asking to have it changed. It sounds like you are positioning it as food for thought or a request of the teacher. It’s not a complaint or a criticism.
My DD’s orphanage was neglectful at best. That’s my most polite characterization. If my DD had to sing this song it would just break my heart knowing that she probably did experience worse than what the words convey. And she’s a very sensitive and timid child.
So thanks for sharing these issues with us. It will help us immensely as we continue to learn as APs.
October 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
My oldest daughter is in first grade, and if we were in this situation, I would request that they choose a different song – now, before it has a chance to be an issue. My six-year-old has a tender heart and an inquiring mind. She would want to talk about those lyrics. She would want to know if she or her sister got hit in China – if they ever got a Christmas present – if her they were hungry when they were in China. These words are NOT just some vauge concept to her, they are a very real part of her early life. She has seen Annie, but most of the song lyrics went right past her. Having to memorize the words and understand the meaning, well, that’s just too much at 6. Even if she never said a word, I believe it would make her heart sad. “You’re Never Fully Dressed Without a Smile” would be a better option. Good luck.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
What a wide range of opinions! I would be worried about my son internalizing the message of the song about orphans, that nobody loves them and they are worthless. These themes reinforce the abandonment anxieties adopted children naturally have — that something about the fact that they were adopted or abandoned is their own fault.
To me, the difference between watching the play and performing it makes a big difference, as does the context of one song versus the whole play. In the context of the play, the audience comes to identify with the orphans (or at least Annie), and its clear that the lyrics of this song may describe the harsh conditions for orphans but do not reflect their worth as human beings. By itself, the song gives little context to the ugly statements about orphans.
As for the remedy, I think you’re right to approach the teachers, particularly given that you have learned so far in advance. If the class knew and were excited about the project, there might be a danger of singling GG out in a way that would make her uncomfortable.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I think it’s also asking a child to potentially relive a trauma if you ask them to sing these lyrics over and over again. I’m not referencing GG at all – I don’t know how she feels about her SWI and her time there. But for some kids, they had bad experiences in their SWI’s and they know it. It still causes them anxiety. We wouldn’t ask kids to stand on a stage and sing about other types of trauma in their life. I think the music teacher will be very understanding.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
I think we need to keep in mind that the public schools are there to serve the students in the best way they can. This song doesn’t serve anyone, least of all the adopted children. Before we think we’re being touchy and annoying to the teachers, remember there was a time when schools wouldn’t hesitate to have entertainment that depicted other races in a negative light. Our children have feelings and it’s the job of teachers to consider all students.
Another thing to remember here is all orphanages are not like that. I know some are saying the orphanages are often bad in China. However, we met several caregivers and the orphanage director from our daughter’s SWI. Not one came off as an abusive alcoholic like Miss Hannigan!! Explaining the orphan in literature to a child GG’s age is difficult and there’s no reason they need to be exposed to this at such a young age. There’s plenty of time to deal with this at a more developmentally appropriate age and in a safer context. (I agree with the person who said this might open the floodgates for children teasing other children about adoption.)
October 29th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
I would start by talking to the teacher about the situation and see if this can be eliminated from the selections for the project. I would have a really strong objection to my child not only singing this but having to hear her peers sing it to her given her back ground. You can not shelter them from everything but at this age it is not necessary for her to have to deal with this when there are so many other musicals for them to choose from. I would be willing to take it to administration if need be to shelter her from this one.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
I emailed one of my best friends. She is her PhD. in Early Childhood Music Education. For what it is worth, I agree with what she has to say on the matter.
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One of the things that music teachers need to do is put songs in cultural/historical contexts. For example, my students are singing a Yiddish immigrant song about how great American will be for the girls. Why? Well, the songs claims that,in America, there are so many men they won’t need a dowry or a matchmaker to find a husband. These are foreign concepts to my students. We talk about the Jewish customs in the old country, and how, even in American these customs continued for a long time, but are little practiced now.
Annie is a period piece. In truth, most orphanages were pretty lousy places at that time. If the teacher has a discussion about how orphanages have changed for the better I would think that would go a long way to give the children some perspective. Personally, if the student is old enough to remember her stay in the orphanage, I would invite her and her parents, to share her experience with the other students. Obviously, this is a fictional story. A good dose of historic context will go along way.
If the parent feels strongly enough that a change is needed, now is the time to go to the teacher. Unless there is some reason this particular class needs to sing this particular song (and there could be programming reasons, actually) a reasonable discussion should yield favorable results, or, at the least, some understanding. Talking to the teacher should always be the first step.
My two cents, after 30+ years of teaching.
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October 29th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
No really looks at something until it is pointed out.
we can only ever see things from our own point of view – not until we have experienced another point of view, or heard the voice of another point of view, will we ever consider that point of view –
pointing it out only expands everyones experience in life –
I would simply point it out – and give the whole picture you just gave.
I’m sure it hasn’t even crossed the teacher’s mind.
explore the options together – is there a healthy way for this experience to broaden the understanding of the other kids (pre-empt this with an education to the kids)- is a change in the best interest for someone so young as your daughter – will this be too confusing for her young mind to sort out, will the attention on her be too much.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
waiting4ash – Your friend has some great input! I guess in our situation, I would have a hard time with my daughter singing this song. She has a hard time with the fact that she spent her first nine months in an orphanage. We visited her orphanage, which was very small, and met the nannies who cared for her. It was obvious that they were very attached to the babies and the babies in that particular orphanage were well cared for. I try to emphasize that with my daughter, and I would hate for her to listen to the message in that song every.single.day for months.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
My five and a half year old loves this song and musical. She was adopted at 3 years old and does not take any of the lyrics to heart. She likes the music and that the show involves kids. Both my daughters (bio and adopted) have sung this song at school and niether girl has paid attention to the lyrics until I pointed them out and even then my five year old pointed out to me that “mom you know not all you hear on TV is true” The only issue my youngest has with the song is that she thinks since she is the only one that lived in an orphange she should be the only one to be Annie.
samba in sac
talesfromthebigtomato.blogspot.com
October 29th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
I can’t express how much DW and I appreciate what RQ has done for us. We are childless.
I am a male adoptee (closed adoptee, infancy), and located my bio mom and two brothers, which worked out well. All has worked out well. I am not a fan of open adoption if it can be avoided and do not dwell on the unpleasant circumstances that made my adoption necessary. I am also not a fan of censorship of things with literary merit and
have found life easier once I developed a thick skin. I am a fan of old movies and like the original “Our Gang” shorts, which occasionally portray orphans and ragamuffins from the same era as “Annie.”
Care must be taken not to overreact or encourage oversensitivity, imo. If DD shows any signs of being “Annie” is a story, just that, based on a cartoon from the 1930s with literary merit. Same with “Oliver!” Our kids (to be) are adopted orphans and they and everyone around them know this. Times, and the perception of orphans and adoption, have changed since the 1930s. Better to let it roll off everyone’s back and if I were the parent in this situation, would say nothing to anyone unless DD brings it up first. She may not even identify with the story.
If the play were “Chinese Annie,” my opinion would be different.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
DiSha080806 – Thank you for your well stated thougths. I cannot agree with you more…
samba in sac
talesfromthebigtomato.blogspot.com
October 29th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I guess if I could get the song changed without a big deal. No harm no foul.
But being a very open person. Really we tell her story to help her deal with it…………. Use words to help her deal.
It is a period piece………… Most folks I would imagine don’t think about the words, word by word. To most and the tone, is these kids are going to prevail over their circumstances, they are lovbale tough cookies and Annie is going to get a family right (long time since I have watched it).
If it were me I would warn her, watch it and take my cues from her. Can it be avoided forever…………. This or another story, Oliver Twist (please sir I want more, it still cuts me and I remember seeing the movie at 8). I would also be having a discussion about literary license……………. And how conflict key to storytelling………….. and it is storytelling……
And yeah, watching her perform it would cut me to the quick and that would be about me………………….
Ugh, just Ugh……..
And leads me back to if I could get it changed I would.
Its one thing to watch it together another to perform it.
If I couldn’t get it entirely off the program (having another class do it is sort of the same), I would do serious advance prep with her though. I would also be prepared to offer some alternatives……………….
October 29th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
As a primary school teacher, I am constantly looking out for things that could be hurtful/detrimental to my students. Racial issues, gender issues, things to do with divorce, abuse, refugees, adoption. The list could go on forever. It is easy to miss things and I would be SO GLAD if a parent pointed something like this out. Teachers have the best interest of their students in mind but we don’t know all the kids as well as their parents. We don’t always know how a child will react or how much they can handle. Or indeed, how much their parents want them to handle. Although learning about how children in some orphanages are treated can be beneficial, I doubt the music teacher is going to go into a lot of detail in that area. She will be concentrating on the music. Can you be sure that it will be discussed in an age appropriate, accurate way? If this were a discussion in GG’s language arts class or they had to do a review of Annie and the discussion came from that… that might be okay. But when the focus is singing this song and getting into character and becoming these undesirable, mistreated orphans… that could be psychologically overwhelming. The kids don’t know anything about this project yet, so I see no reason why it couldn’t be changed. They could sing from another musical or sing a different Annie song. Would the school want to risk the emotional wellbeing of several students over a song choice? I don’t think so. Just quietly bring up your concerns. I would be shocked if the school didn’t support you on this.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
I am an educator and a waiting-to-adopt Mommy to be. No matter what my opinion is about this situation, there will be those that disagree with it…..but here goes……Annie is a fiction story just like all of the fairy tales children here and Disney stories, and nursery rhymes. And children usually “get that.” It’s the adults that make a bigger issue of it than the kids. I guess you could watch the movie and see how your daughter feels about it and then go from there. Then you will be able to talk about how YES, some orphanages used to be horrible places (and maybe some still are) but a lot of work has gone into trying to make sure that orphans today are better taken care of and placed in loving homes. It could be an opportunity for some real positive learning and conversation. That’s just my two-cents worth and honest opinion.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
You have every right to express your very reasonable concerns. If they listen, great. If not, then you will have to use it as a teachning moment, as hard as that will be. Yikes. What a difficult situation.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
At one level I see the point, Annie is a fairy tale that exaggerates the orphan’s plight in the name of entertainment.
But what about the audience’s reaction when they see GG singing this song with her classmates? I’ve got to believe a significant proportion of the audience will realize GG was adopted internationally and thus probably spent time in an orphanage. If I were a parent who didn’t have an IA child, I’d be horrified at what I would consider to be the insensitivity or extremely poor judgment the music teacher who chose that particular song, and I’d wonder why the parent didn’t step in to either change the song or keep her daughter out of it. And I imagine it would be a topic of conversation as we enjoyed punch and cookies after the show. RQ, I’d have this argument in my back pocket in case the music teacher hasn’t considered it. Honestly, you might be doing him/her a favor.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:20 am
i have really learned a lot by this discussion.
perhaps the simplest solution:
ASK THE TEACHER TO CHANGE THE SONG TO “THE SUN WILL COME OUT TOMORROW!”
won’t everyone in the audience sing right along?!
October 30th, 2009 at 12:55 am
My husband and I recently adopted a child from the foster care system who was in a group girls’ home. She was so excited to see Annie in our DVD collection when she came to stay with us the first time. She said it was everyone’s favorite movie at the home because they felt like it was about their life. The home she came from was very nice and nothing at all like the movie, but she still related to the orphans’ feelings of hopelessness. She says now she feels like Annie instead of an orphan and she watches it over and over.
Show GG the movie at home and talk about it. My daughter and I discuss the movie all the time and talk about the children everywhere in orphanages and children’s homes. I have always loved the movie, but now it means so much more to me.
October 30th, 2009 at 8:32 am
It may not have any impact on DD but what if it does? I wouldn’t want to have to answer to myself in the mirror for not stepping in to have the teacher consider a different song for DD’s class. We can’t shield the kids from everything but if we can avoid a possible situation for our kids shouldn’t we? I agree with other posters on here that kids can be cruel and if it’s possible to get it changed without anyone being the wiser I would definitely make the request (or polite suggestion). Again, watching the movie is much different than singing the song over and over and over and over.
October 30th, 2009 at 8:40 am
My daughter was in the Annie play last year (2nd grade). She was familiar with the movie and really likes it, often turns it on in the car on the ipod. Prior to the play rehearsal starting we discussed the depression, orphanages and treatment of some children then and now, and the behavior of Miss Hannigan. Although I still get a lump in my throat with the one line, she does not seem fazed (and believe me I am looking at her when that song is on!) It may be because she does not consider herself an orphan, because she is not…. Would imagine it depends on the child. She was not selected as one of the orphans in the play, she had a smaller role and I was kind of glad so she would not have to sing that song as a stage orphan, but if she had we just would have had more discussions to be sure she was OK with it and to check if she received any awkward questions from friends.
I can understand your caution if they are doing this outside of the play and more of a broadway review of different plays- as mentioned in another post, Sun will come out tommorow is excellent. If it is in the context of the play it is meant to have impact/show the hardship of the depression and orphanage life.
October 30th, 2009 at 8:53 am
mom2mia–
Exactly! Well put.
October 30th, 2009 at 9:42 am
This year, my 6 yr old Chinese daughter had her 3rd dance recital and she performed a ballet number to “It’s a Hard Knock Life” with 10 other girls(she was the only adopted child). When I first heard them rehearsing months before, my heart dropped!!! I knew that she didn’t know what the song meant-she had not seen the show before. I pondered taking her out of the recital. I thought long & hard about this and lost many nights of sleep. I realized that this song was not selected to hurt my child-everyone truly forgets that she is adopted. Bottom line-she loved the song & she loved the dance routine. I did watch the musical with her at home prior to her recital and explained what the words meant. She is so proud of where she is from and that she is adopted and she danced her heart out full knowing what the song meant. My husband and I dreaded hearing her sing it and we did tear up a bit-but we are so glad that she did it and we were so proud of her! I also hesitated to have her picture taken in an orphans outfit—it came out so beautiful. I wouldn’t change a thing and neither would she.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Reading through the comments, my opinion kept leaning one way and then the other. Ultimately, if I were in this position, I would go and ask for them to change the song. Let me tell you why. I keep having a sad memory come back to me of one Christmas party we had for the kids in the orphanage. They had prepared to sing a series of songs for us volunteers. They were happy and animated until they got to the last song. All of a sudden, the happiness was wiped away and they all became so very somber. I asked the ayi next to me what the words were about and she said something to the effect of “Mama, why did you leave me”. I was horrified that they had been taught this song and it was obvious that they knew exactly what it meant. All that to say, for any children who may have memories of orphanage life, singing those lyrics could dredge up a lot of sad feelings. And in regards to one commenter, meeting orphanage directors and caretakers who “seem” nice . Yes, there were some nice ones out there, but if anyone remembers Tilly from my book and you know how abusive she was to the innocent children, you should have seen her when officials or visitors came through, she turned so sweet I was surprised she didn’t melt into a puddle of sugar.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:12 am
What a scenario! I can certainly understand your concern and the dilemma you find yourself in. I haven’t had a chance to read most of the other responses, so mine may already listed, but if you think she’s mature enough to help you make the decision, I would bring her into this and explain your concerns to her and also your position that at the appropriate time, she needs to start to learn how to handle situations like this. Whatever you decide, I believe you’ll do the right thing. You know your daughter.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:23 am
I think you may be onto something with this comment:
“I’ve contacted two of the other moms and have heard back from one – she’s in the same boat I am, not 100% sure of the correct thing to do.”
Perhaps your approach to the school could be along the lines of, “I’m uncomfortable about this and am not sure of the correct thing to do.” It just makes it more of a “how should we handle this as a team” rather than you making a request, if that makes sense. It would seem that no one really put two and two together and once they do, they may rethink the choice.
And for what it’s worth, in elementary school, when I had to sing any songs, they were just words and I sung them and they never really sunk in with me. I could have sung, “hit your little brother” and I wouldn’t have even realized what I was saying (I’m not a nitwit…. really!). As an adult, putting these lyrics into context for your daughter is horrifying! I wonder if they resonate more with us adults than your daughter. I could be way off on this one, just wanted to throw that out there.
October 30th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I have not logged in for a long time as we have generally concluded our adoption will not happen (12/06 LID)-but that is a whole other kettle of fish.
However when I saw this forum I had to comment. Although the orphan/orphanage context is concerning. I also worry about choosing this musical number for a different reason. Although I watched ANNIE a few times as a kid, coming from a very poor family, the concept of the “Great Depression” frightened me.
I knew how much worse things got in our home when either of my parents was unemployed. ANNIE caused worry that me and my sibling could also end up in an orphanage if my parents could no longer afford us (I also had been reading a young adult novel about two brothers who end up riding the rails as hobos when the depression brings about the loss of the family farm-not a happy tale either).
In this economy I would think anything about the Great Depression might be inappropriate not only for childrn who may have had experience living in an orphanage but also of children living in foreclosed homes or with unemployed parents.
October 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Kay Bratt I’m so thrilled when you post. I love to hear from you. Thanks for your input.
October 30th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Dear feelingthejoy,
Thank you! That was so nice….
K